Talk:Charango

refering to

" The first historic information on the charango was gathered by Vega going back to 1814, when a cleric from Tupiza documented that "the Indians used

with much enthusiasm the guitarrillos mui fuis... around here in the Andes of Bolivia they called them Charangos". Turino mentions

that he found carved sirens representing playing charangos in some Colonial churches in the highlands of Bolivia.[citation needed]"

How could Vega talk about "the Andes of Bolivia" in 1814 when Bolivia not only didn't exist but the region was known as Upper Peru (Alto Peru) until

its Independence when the country took the name of Bolivia after Simon Bolivar? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivia#Colonial_period ^[1]

In section Tuning the picture named Charango tuning is wrong. The 7th and 8th note is A4 A4 instead of C5 C5, as here in the first picture (in reverse order): http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Afinaciones_del_Charango_1.jpg

Minota (talk) 08:29, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree, the staff notation tuning given is incorrect. I'm removing that illustration until an illustration showing the correct tuning can be located. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.206.185.44 (talk) 19:56, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Referring to the first sentence, where it says "[...] traditionally made with (7ko rules) the shell of the back of an Armadillo. [...]" - is this vandalism by someone named 7ko, or is there a set of rules, known as the 7ko rules, that dictates the traditional way by which a Charango is made? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.204.252.142 (talk) 19:16, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

The section on Construction says, "Another variety is a neck with two holes bored 3/4 of the way through, parallel to the fretboard and close to the headstock (an innovation said to color the instrument's tone)."

What is the source of the information concerning these holes? I have never heard of this before, and I've seen a number of charangos (and own several), and I've never seen these holes on any instrument.

It seems highly unlikely that any hole drilled in the neck near the headstock could in any way influence the sound of the instrument. If, however, there is a folk tradition that they do, a source should be given for that information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 21:53, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

There is a good deal of confusion around the web on these two(?) instruments, and nothing in this article really serves to dispell it. For example, "both" instruments are said to be larger than the charango -- but some sources claim the charangon is larger than the ronroco; others claim the ronroco is larger than the charagon. In fact, a perusal of some web dealers selling both instruments reveals that the ronroco and the charangon are essentially the same size: 73-80cm long, 20-25cm wide (both instruments vary within those limits). Many sources claim the ronroco is tuned "an octave, a 5th, or a 4th below the charango" -- while others make exactly this same claim for the tuning of the charangon.

Can it be that "ronroco" and "charangon" are nothing but two different names for the same instrument?

Whether they're just two names, or actually two different instruments, either way, an article on "charango" and its family needs to clarify this. And if you do, please cite some references? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 00:23, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

What about The Last of Us soundtrack? Gustavo Santaolalla used the ronroco in the main theme. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.63.171 (talk) 02:46, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

A recent IP contributor added a bunch of claimed variants, but no proper refs, just a few YouTube links. If we can't substantiate the existence of a variant, it should be removed. MatthewVanitas (talk) 20:30, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Which variants are you questioning?

• All of the variants I see here are listed in the Marcuse Dictionary of Musical Instruments and/or the online Atlas of Plucked Instruments, which features actual photographs of most of them. I've seen many of them myself, and played on more than a few.
• Some are sold online at Bolivia Mall, and in the Andean Musical Instruments section of Peru-Store.
• Most of the variants listed also appear in the Spanish Wikipedia, in the section Diferentes tipos de charango: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charango#Sonko_charango
• I've also visited the youtube links, and they feature actual video footage of the instruments themselves, audio of them being played, and close-up photos of construction details. If that's not "substantiation" of their "existence", I'm not sure what is.

It makes absolutely no sense for a source to claim that, in 1814, a cleric referred to the region as "the Andes of Bolivia". It is well-documented that Bolivia was not even named as such until 1825. This severely hurts the credibility of the material in question.
Please note that this is not a discussion on the political history of Bolivia, but rather on the reliability of the source in question (and of the editor that added it into the article) as it relates to this culture topic. Best regards.--MarshalN20 ^Talk 03:49, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I agree. Bolivia was named for it's first president, Simon Bolivar, who took office in 1825. Prior to 1825 "Bolivia" didn't exist. The book from which the reference cites was first published in 1962, is currently out of print, and doesn't appear to be available in eBook format, so I was unable to check the specific page reference cited.

As the book is written Spanish, it is possible that a translation error may be involved, but without seeing the actual page in context, it's impossible to tell.

BTW, the link to "Vega" in the paragraph in question takes one to the Wiki article on "Vega, ... the brightest star in the constellation Lyra" -- so this whole passage is suspect, and should probably be reworked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 23:40, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivia#Colonial_period — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 01:33, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I've done a lot of cleanup on this article: added better references (especially to the "charango variants" section); added supporting material to the "History" section; rewritten some awkward sentences; added a few supporting illustrations from the Commons; alphabetized the "noteworthy players" section...

...but the "In pop culture" section still needs a lot of work. There may be good information there, but right now there's no discernable organization, and it reads like a random collection of factoids. If I might make a few suggestions:

• Either: List only especially significant uses of the charango and it's variants in pop culture. For example:

• "Lady Gaga, 2007-date: Since 2007 Lady Gaga has included at least three prominent charango pieces in every live concert."
• "Joe Satriani, 2003-2013: After hearing one of Gustavo Santaolalla's movie scores, Joe Satriani abandoned the guitar for nine years and used electric ronroco exclusively on all his albums."
• etc.

• Or: If none of these factoids are individually hugely significant to the charango, then I'd suggest getting rid of excess descriptive baggage, and just providing a list of a dozen or so well-know pop-icons names, name of a tune using charango, and date -- really no more description is needed here. For example:

Some examples of the charango in popular culture:

• 1974: Frank Zappa; Apostrophe; charango used on Don't Eat the Yellow Snow
• 1985: Henry Rollins (Black Flag); used charango to swat flies during Who's Got the 10-1/2
• 1988: John McLaughlin (Mahavishnu Orchestra); played electric charango on recording of his Mediterranean Concerto, with the LA Philharmonic
• 2012: Glen Campbell; Grammy Awards, 02/12/2012; Rhinestone Cowboy played on walayacho
• etc.

[ETA: FYI, these examples are fictitious, and only intended to show formatting. ] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 01:07, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd keep the list to no more than a dozen or so examples -- these lists tend to run away and dominate the articles they're attached to.

Whatever is done, some kind of organization is always helpful in sections like this. Organize either by artist's name (alphabetized!), by date, by type of use (concert, album, political rally, etc.) -- anything to make the list look less random.

TIA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 01:24, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

OK, having no takers since March, I cleaned up the "pop culture" section and alphabetized by most prominent artist's name. I kept all the examples that were there, and didn't add any new ones. However, some citations for the examples given would be nice. In particular, some evidence that the "honeybird" CD, allegedly scheduled for release in 2012, actually was released (and if so, when), would be welcome. Thanks.

74.95.43.249 (talk) 02:25, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

As I understand there was only the Spanish colonial power in that region (Ecuador, Bolivia, Peru, northern Chile and northwestern Argentina). I will take the sentence out until someone finds a reference for it. --RoRo (talk) 00:19, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

To add to article, so that it is properly encyclopedic: the etymology of the instrument's name. 173.89.236.187 (talk) 23:39, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't see many musical instrument articles in Wikipedia which include an etymology of the instrument's name. But I agree that would be a useful feature to add to them. I've added what I know about the origin of "charango", drawing on the sources I have available. If you have additional, or more authoritative information, please feel free to improve upon it.

74.95.43.249 (talk) 20:35, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

I notice this article is rated as "low importance" in all Wikipedia categories. I can't really speak to its importance in the context of general Bolivian or South American subjects, although I do think it is probably at least of the same level of cultural importance to South America as the Balalaika is to Russia, and I note the balalaika article is rated as a "Top-importance Russian Article".

Regardless, of it's national/cultural importance, I believe that its rating as regards musical subjects should be much higher.

The charango and related instruments have become enormously popular over the past 15-20 years, as has the traditional Andean music which employs them. A long history; thousands of albums; internationally recognized virtuosi; hundreds of professional and semi-professional bands; nearly a hundred contemporary books listed on Amazon; their routine presence in music stores all over South and North America; and the success of on-line distributors such as "Charango Mall" -- all attest to the importance of this instrument and its literature.

I believe its importance should be raised to at least "moderate", and even "high", in the categories: Musical Instrument Articles and Latin Music Articles.

But I am unclear as to how one proposes such a status change. Anyone know and care to share? TIA.

74.95.43.249 (talk) 21:00, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

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I have just modified 5 external links on Charango. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150523023030/http://www.puebloindio.org:80/Historia_del_charango.html to http://www.puebloindio.org/Historia_del_charango.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150523023030/http://www.puebloindio.org:80/Historia_del_charango.html to http://www.puebloindio.org/Historia_del_charango.html
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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131029202039/http://www.aicharango.org/portal/index.php to http://www.aicharango.org/portal/index.php
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As with many musical instrument articles, the section on "notable players" is starting to get out of control. A great number of names have been added, apparently in random order, and with little support as to their level of notability. I would like to offer a few suggestions to bring this back into line, and make it a useful addition to the article:

• When you add a name to this list, please follow the exsiting list format

(it's not clear why so many of the new names are in parentheses, for example)

• please add names in alphabetical order by the person's last name

• please try to adequately justify in the addition WHY the person is particularly notable, and/or include a reference that attests to their notability.

It is not necessarily the case that everyone who every played a charango, or wrote for the instrument is and especially notable player, however popular they may be locally.

• I suggest that, as with other such articles, the "notable players" section be kept to a dozen or so people who were extremely important in the history and development of the instrument and it's literature. Then a separate article can be created as a "List of notable charanguistas". this has worked well for other categories like "guitarists", "bassists", etc.

74.95.43.249 (talk) 22:55, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

As I look a little more closely at the additions, a couple more things occur to me.

• Simply being a "master" player is not, in itself, sufficient for inclusion in this list. There are, for example, literally tens of thousands of "master" guitarists and pianists, but only a small proportion of them are particularly noteworthy. What have they done for the instrument that makes them notable? Have they composed or performed a particular piece that is considered definitive of the instrument or a style? Have they performed widely with well-known ensembles? Did they participate in a particularly noteworthy concert, attended by tens of thousands? Did they invent or perfect a technique that has been widely adopted by other players? Did they redesign the instrument or invent a new version that has been widely adopted? Are they widely regarded as exemplary instructors who have trained other famous players? Etc., etc.

• "Interpreter" needs qualification and explanation. Interpreter of what? Classical guitar literature for the charango? Beethoven string quartets? Hip-hop versions of traditional Andean music?

I think you get the idea.

74.95.43.249 (talk) 23:15, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Quite a number of new entries have appeared in this list, all from Bolivia, and all tagged

"charanguista, arranger and composer"

I'm sure there are hundreds, if not thousands of charanguistas in Bolivia, many of them professional, and most -- like most guitarists -- probably also composers and arrangers for their instrument. But what makes them notable?

When you add names to the list, please include a reference that excplains why this particular person is notable in the history of the instrument or it's literature.

Also, please place your entries in the appropriate alphabetical position in the list.

I am removing these additions, for now, until their notability can be documented. I'll place the list here for convenience, so that that they may be easily restored, should someone come up with an appropriate reference or references:

• (Agustin Alonso), charanguista, arranger and composer, La paz, Bolivia
• (Adrian Aruquipa), charanguista, arranger and composer, La Paz, Bolivia
• (Saúl Callejas), charanguista, arranger and composer, La Paz, Bolivia
• (Celestino Campos), charanguista, arranger and composer, Bolivia
• (Alfredo Coca), charanguista, arranger and composer, Cochabamba, Bolivia
• (Donato Espinoza), charanguista, arranger and composer, Bolivia
• (Jorge Martinez), charanguista, arranger and composer, Potosi, Bolivia
• (Clark Orozco), charanguista, arranger and composer, Bolivia, Co-Founder of Wara
• (Bonny Alberto Terán), charanguista, arranger and composer, Bolivia

74.95.43.249 (talk)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Dusepocharangoturned.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:06, 14 October 2018 (UTC)