Talk:Cowboy Carter Tour

In the article I used NewsNation as a reference, since is considered a reliable source in Wikipedia. I omitted Metro and Daily Mail, but I'm not sure if we could still use them. ^[1][2] Thedayandthetime (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

I dont think so; Live Nation, as the official promoter of the tour and Billboard stated that ticket sales had reached 94% sold and estimated that the tour would gross over $325 million, and the rumour/theory regarding slow ticket sale are false.^[3] please keep in mind, Wikipedia isn't a place for including every rumor/conspiracy theory that is not pertinent to the article WP:CRYSTAL. It has nothing to do with WP:CENSOR nor controversial event for it to be included in the article, but a rumour that has been debunked from Live Nation itself WP:HOAX 182.2.145.23 (talk) 08:46, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

It does have to do with WP:CENSOR since we're not talking about just a rumor or conspiracy theory, as you're claiming. This very Billboard article that I added as a reference was made in response to the reports, it doesn't "debunk" the reports, it literally "breaks [them] down" by explaining why some consider the tour is a slow seller. WP:STICKTOTHESOURCE. It addresses the high prices criticism several times: "Some fans complained of high prices", "The “Texas Hold ’Em” singer initially faced significant criticism when early presales revealed aggressive ticket prices", "Some fans criticized Bey’s high prices". It also addresses the slow sales reports: "The Cowboy Carter Tour likely won’t outgross her 2023 Renaissance Tour", "It’s an impressive feat considering the number of A-list stadium tours competing for fan dollars this summer".

On the other hand, you did in fact used a misleading summary, per WP:SUMMARYNO. NewsNation can be used as a reference since the topic is not related to UFOs.

Consensus has to be reached, so editing/changing to your own point of view is not appropriate. The material in-question should never be changed while discussions are still happening, stalled or otherwise. Furthermore, Wikipedia does not require unanimity. We talk, we don't revert. What you're doing could be seen as violation of both WP:STONEWALL and WP:DISRUPT.

Again: slow sales reports and controversy surrounding high prices sentence is reliably sourced - you can outline your concerns and alternate sources on the talk page. Thedayandthetime (talk) 20:14, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

And where exactly does Billboard mention slow ticket sales besides high prices critism?? The fact that she may not surpass the gross of her previous tour does not imply that this tour is "low." The tour's official promoter, Live Nation, has confirmed that 94% of the tickets have already been sold WP:STICKTOTHESOURCE, everything that is contray is false WP:DONTHOAX. As I said before— Wikipedia isn't a place for including every rumor/conspiracy theory that is not pertinent to the article WP:CRYSTAL. It has nothing to do with WP:CENSOR because slow ticket sales is confirmed as false rumour per Live Nation, not a controversial event such as The Eras Tour's Venue Management in Brazil or Sticky & Sweet Tour's incident in Marseille, etc. On the other hand, you in fact use multiple sources to state or imply a conclusion. per WP:SYNTH Do not combine material from multiple sources to state or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. Similarly, do not combine different parts of one source to state or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source. If one reliable source says A and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C not mentioned by either of the sources. Additionally, the source referenced by NewsNation in the article is identified as an "Industry Insider," which is evidently an anonymous entity with personal beliefs that does not possess the reliability or qualifications required to be deemed a credible source. per WP:VERIFYOR Wikipedia's content is determined by previously published information^[3] rather than by the personal beliefs or experiences of its editors. Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it. What you're doing could be seen as violation of both WP:STONEWALL by misuse multiple template tags in edit your summary and WP:DISRUPT as well. 2001:448A:2082:EB73:CDED:FAB4:8D09:7E0D (talk) 04:49, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

The following note should be added with new sources noting slow demand: "As discussed by Los Angeles Times's August Brown,^[4] The Times's Katie Gatens,^[5], NewsNation's Paula Froelich^[6] and Billboard's Dave Brooks^[7]".

• Los Angeles Times (US): In the third paragraph, the author mentions that "several outlets" noted the "slower" sales. In the seventh paragraph, the author specifically mentions that the tour has "soft demand."
• The Times (UK): "...demand for the Texan superstar’s new London shows has been lacklustre", "Caché McClay, the official Beyoncé reporter for USA Today, based in Nashville, Tennessee, points out another reason demand may have dropped".
• Billboard: "The Cowboy Carter Tour likely won’t outgross her 2023 Renaissance Tour", clearly referring to slow sales and soft demand reports, as discusses by other media outlets.

Not even mentioning NewsNation, because you want to discredit that source (even though Wikipedia considers it a reliable one). Thedayandthetime (talk) 17:54, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

They already citied here, those articles basically said the same point. adding too many sources can cause citation clutter WP:CITEKILL And whether it is consistent with past tours is irrelevant, as WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. 2001:448A:2082:5DA4:4007:D16:7894:E67E (talk) 06:07, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

They won't cause citation clutter since they are bundled to avoid edit warring per WP:CITEMERGE and WP:CITEBUNDLE. Saying that an "industry insider" reported slow sales is original research because it is not supported by the body of the source; headlines are not sources. Several outlets saying the same thing indicates a consensus among them; it doesn't mean they are copying each other. WP:EDITING says "be particularly cautious about removing sourced content. Information in Wikipedia must be verifiable and cannot be original research." Medxvo (talk) 09:48, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Text in the article's section is now being changed from "Live Nation reported" to "Live Nation has since debunked those reports and confirmed". Any thoughts on this? HorrorLover555 (talk) 05:25, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

After Live Nation's response, there are new reports (like this one) still coming out restating that the tour has slow sales indeed, in despite of this so-called "debunking". That being said, should we add the newest reports and affirm that news outlets are now "debunking" Live Nation's response? I don't think that term should be used at all though, per WP:NPOV. Thedayandthetime (talk) 16:21, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

The lead reading "As her fifth overall all-stadium tour," violates MOS:PUFFERY. Thedayandthetime (talk) 17:43, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

I agree. I think we should remove that statement per MOS:PUFFERY. It is unnecessary to have that statement there, seeing that it also links to a category which it shouldn't do. HorrorLover555 (talk) 16:23, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

I would like to see Livelikemusic and Koppite1's thoughts on this. HorrorLover555 (talk) 16:26, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with its exclusion, under the manual of style linked above, as well as WP:NOTADVERT. livelikemusic (TALK!) 16:28, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

I think it should remain and have restored the edit until consensus has been reached Koppite1 (talk) 16:28, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

No, I don't think we should restore it considering that a majority here in this discussion have said that it violates MOS:PUFFERY and should be removed. Per WP:CON which states Consensus on Wikipedia does not require unanimity (which is ideal but rarely achievable), nor is it the result of a vote., there is a current consensus to remove it at this time. HorrorLover555 (talk) 16:31, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Why is a factual statement deemed puffery? Koppite1 (talk) 16:33, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Considering the conversation picked back up with it removed, it should remain removed, per WP:STONEWALL, and persistently reverting it multiple times is highly disruptive. Not to mention, per WP:BRD, you were reverted, so you should have been the one to open the discussion. livelikemusic (TALK!) 16:33, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Or perhaps a long standing edit should never have been removed in the first place, without discussion or consensus. Koppite1 (talk) 16:36, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

The removing of a statement that is neither contentious or controversial is not against Wikipedia policy. I could understand if mass-removal of content happened, but removal of one statement is not controversial at all. Not to mention, is the statements inclusion in the article's lead important to the article's overall importance? It's unlikely. livelikemusic (TALK!) 16:43, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Again, me, Livelikemusic and Thedayandthetime have already given our opinions which is the majority of a consensus to remove that statement. As far as I am concerned at the time, it's our word against yours. HorrorLover555 (talk) 16:44, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

As well, per WP:NPOV it states All encyclopedic content on Wikipedia must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic. And judging from the article's prose content, the coverage of this being a so-called all-stadium tour is not widely covered by the in-line citations (outside of venue records), which means its coverage/significance is not strong enough for inclusion in the lead. livelikemusic (TALK!) 16:49, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Simply stating that she has now done 5 full stadium tours is factual...there's nothing puffery about it. Koppite1 (talk) 16:57, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Three other editors disagree, and believe it is. livelikemusic (TALK!) 16:58, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

So stating facts is now deemed puffery? Koppite1 (talk) 17:04, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Have you ever read MOS:PUFFERY and WP:NOTADVERT? HorrorLover555 (talk) 17:05, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

There are no peacock phrases or words being used. MOS:PUFFERY states stick to the facts. CC being her 5th all stadium tour is sticking to the facts. There is zero reason for it to be excluded under MOS:PUFFERY. MOS:PUFFERY would be e.g. Shakira's lede for her Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran World Tour - Wikipedia. It misleadingly uses the word "stadium" tour. That seems closer to puffery/peacocking because she isn't doing an all stadium tour, she's also doing arena's. Seems odd that the OP who created this whole discussion wasn't ok about facts being stated here, but was happy to have misleading info over on the Shakira page. Koppite1 (talk) 17:21, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Shakira's tour has nothing to do with this per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Again, there is currently a consensus at this time to remove the statement per WP:CON. HorrorLover555 (talk) 17:24, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Shakira's tour can be deemed as setting a precedent.

There is no current consensus. Other editors need time to respond. Koppite1 (talk) 17:25, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

The inclusion at Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran World Tour was discussed and consensus was reached; but, just because one page includes something does not mean others should (again, per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS). That'd be like saying, well one person jumped from the bridge because they believed XYZ, so I'm going to jump, too. And per WP:CON, Consensus on Wikipedia does not require unanimity (which is ideal but rarely achievable), nor is it the result of a vote. livelikemusic (TALK!) 17:29, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

I'm not very familiar with concert articles but I personally don't really see what's wrong with it if it's a factual statement?★Trekker (talk) 02:16, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

Go read MOS:PUFFERY and WP:NOTADVERT and you will see what's wrong to state that fact in the lead. Thedayandthetime (talk) 17:01, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

I have read it and still fail to see where is that puffery. To describe it as her "As her fifth overall all-stadium tour," ... well it is indeed her fifth stadium tour. Dhoffryn (talk) 09:25, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

I concur with this observation. We've got numerous pages where the article lead starts with a format like 'is the first/second/third studio album of XYZ.' I've never seen anyone raise puffery concerns about this format, suggesting it's widely accepted as a neutral or factual way to present information TheWikiholic (talk) 11:23, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

I don't see how it in any would fall under advert or puffery, stating that something successful as successful isn't inapropriate when it's supported by reliable sources and described in a neutral way. Also I don't believe most people would see the fact that it's someone's 5th stadium tour and feel something is being pushed on them, most people who read Wikipedia probably don't put any value in what format a tour is in.★Trekker (talk) 12:13, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Here are some sources confirming its her 5th all-stadium tour

Beyoncé setlist at SoFi Stadium: All 39 songs at Cowboy Carter tour

The Complete Setlist for Beyoncé’s Cowboy Carter Tour

Beyonce ‘Cowboy Carter Tour’ L.A. tickets: Cheapest seats to April 28 show - cleveland.com

Unless there are any further concerns, i will restore the original edit. Koppite1 (talk) 11:55, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Fans from the first show have reached out on social media to share their heartache after being left disappointed by the views in the "honey pits". These premium tickets are prices at the top end and significantly more than than the "club ho down tickets" yet fans got less for their buck. The Beyhive have reached out to Parkwood for this to be rectified after being told by the likes of Ticket Master and Live Nation refunds are not an option. 147.161.236.114 (talk) 20:21, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

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Change "Spaghettii" (contains elements of ***Flawless", "Run the World (Girls)", and "My Power") to "Spaghettii" (contains elements of ***Flawless", "Essa Te Quenta", "Formation", and "Run The World (Girls)")

Change "My House" (contains elements of "Bow Down") to "My House" (contains elements of "Bow Down", and "Revolution Will Not Be Televised)

Change "Diva" (contains elements of "Crank That" and "TGIF") to "Diva" (contains elements of "Like A Pimp" and "TGIF")

Change "Sweet Honey Buckiin'" / "Pure/Honey" (contains elements of "Summer Renaissance") to "Sweet Honey Buckiin'" / "Pure/Honey" (contains elements of "Tootsie Roll", and "Summer Renaissance")

Change "Thique" (contains elements of "Say My Name" and "Bills, Bills, Bills") to "Thique" (contains elements of "Bills, Bills, Bills")

Change "Cozy" to "Cozy" (contains elements of "Virgo's Groove", and "Pure/Honey)

Change Ballroom Dance Battle (contains elements of "Top Off", "Pure/Honey", and "Déjà Vu") Ttminus (talk) 00:57, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide reliable sources that support the changes you want to be made. HorrorLover555 (talk) 06:53, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

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Change The 8th Act To the 4th Act. As that Act comes after the 5th Act In the Actual Concert YOUSÉIIF (talk) 07:53, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide a reliable source for this content. livelikemusic (TALK!) 15:34, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

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I want to edit the SetList due to an Update XxxCcc444 (talk) 21:35, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Okay XxxCcc444 (talk) 21:35, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 21:38, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Since "livelikemusic" thinks anything outside of their perspective is disruptive editing and has posted threats to my wall yet has not provided any reasoning behind this, the set list received a reconstruction after the first show on April 28, and the remainder of the tour has continued to use this set list (additional sources already provided in the article have reflected these changes as well). As this page is to give a general overview of the tour, the set list used for majority of the tour should be listed as opposed to the set list used for one singular show. Everything has sources provided, and the original setlist was noted in the alterations. The revised set list should be the main one used and the opening night one should be listed in Alterations. Briyoncee (talk) 02:16, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Reasons were given for the revert back, both times. As such, in this edit, you list the set list as from May 1, 2025, and yet, the citation provided is from May 4, 2025, which would make the claims false. As such, the opening night (April 28) is more heavily reported on in media, i.e., Billboard, Cosmopolitan, Elle, The Tennessean, Today via NBCUniversal (NBC News), Uproxx, Vibe, and KKYR, which means by a burden of evidence, the opening night set list is more recognised in published media sources, whereas the May 4 set list is predominately recognised by Capital. livelikemusic (TALK!) 03:35, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

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BEYONCÉGOTME (talk) 20:20, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

UPDATE THIS SETLIST.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 20:32, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

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During the June 7 concert in London, "Break My Soul" was performed.[77] Break my soul was also performed on June 10 concert in London (Night 3) Source: ^[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2025/06/10/beyonce-london-tour-rumi-carter-emotional-moment/84125480007/ Additionally, she also performed her hit 2022 single "Break My Soul," which she did for the first time on night two in London. Qieoplj (talk) 11:07, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

 Done Day Creature (talk) 14:45, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

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Change “ During the June 7 concert in London, "Break My Soul" was performed.[77]” to “During the June 7 and June 10 concert in London, "Break My Soul" was performed.[77]”

^[2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2025/06/10/beyonce-london-tour-rumi-carter-emotional-moment/84125480007/ “Additionally, she also performed her hit 2022 single "Break My Soul," which she did for the first time on night two in London.” Qieoplj (talk) 11:12, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

 Done Day Creature (talk) 14:45, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

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Change “During the May 24 concert in East Rutherford, a small portion of "That's Why You're Beautiful" was performed between "16 Carriages" and "Amen".[76]” to “ During the May 24 concert in East Rutherford and the June 16 concert in London, a small portion of "That's Why You're Beautiful" was performed between "16 Carriages" and "Amen".[76] ^[3] https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2025/06/17/beyonce-emotional-sendoff-london-fans-concert-tour/84225653007/ As she closed out Monday's concert, she sang "London, you're beautiful" to the tune of her 2008 song "That's Why You're Beautiful." And if it wasn't already clear, before leaving the Tottenham Stadium stage for the last time on this tour, she told the crowd, "I’m really going to miss you, London. Qieoplj (talk) 10:26, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

 Done Day Creature (talk) 06:21, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Note She did not perform "That's Why You're Beautiful", though, specifically; will be adding it in differently to the article, as the way for which it was presented is misleading and factually false. livelikemusic (TALK!) 14:22, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

@Day Creature: You need to pay more attention to what the source states; because the way in which you added it to the article is factually not true. livelikemusic (TALK!) 14:26, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

I did review the source, and I think it's a bit of a stretch to call Qieoplj's requested edit (which I implemented) "misleading" and "factually not true." I agree that your edit adds important context by clarifying that the song was altered from the original version, though. Day Creature (talk) 16:51, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

I notice that several users have attempted to make this tour page a "one-stop shop" for tour goers who show up here to find the song samples and songs included in the interludes (which I agree with as they underline the historic archival undertaking of the backbone of the tour - the music), but have been struck down repeatedly for an absence of supporting references. Here are a few I could find to start:

• https://www.stereogum.com/2306031/beyonce-plays-death-grips-interlude-at-cowboy-carter-tour-opener/news/
• https://www.theaquarian.com/2025/05/26/beyonce-brings-a-brilliant-country-music-spectacle-to-metlife-stadium/
• https://www.xxlmag.com/key-glock-beyonce-cowboy-carter-tour/

Happy writing! Just remember to cite to reputable publications. Trainsskyscrapers (talk) 16:28, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

Stereogum cannot be used, as they took the set list from Setlist FM, which is not a reliable source as it is user-generated. At present time, the sources presently presenting the set list (two words, not one) with their interludes and/or samples, are more than sufficient. We do not need to over-kill it with citations. livelikemusic (TALK!) 14:25, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

Typically I would agree with you, but I notice ZERO of the video interludes or the songs included in them are included on the current list. This is a disservice to the breadth of influences across genre and history that this tour has borrowed from. Don't worry: I will find better sources when they appear and edit my above post. Set list, setlist.... you're grasping at straws and the slight pettiness with which you address people who have made edits on this page is not doing you any favors. Trainsskyscrapers (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

She also performed Break My Soul on June 12th. Energy and Break my soul were both removed on June 14th with the ballroom section returning again. https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/beyonce/2025/tottenham-hotspur-stadium-london-england-435ae33f.html Lovedroughts (talk) 06:42, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

 Not done Setlist FM is not a reliable source, per WP:ALBUMAVOID, as it is user generated. livelikemusic (TALK!) 03:27, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

I was in attendance and there’s no articles stating she sang it so how do I prove it? On youtube theres a video of the full June 12th concert by anyu4452 and she does Energy and Break My Soul. You can tell it’s that date by the outfits and hairstyle. The Alligator Tears outfit correlates to June 12th pictures posted on beyonce.com: https://beyonce.com/tour?date=london-6-12. Lovedroughts (talk) 15:38, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Without a reliable, third-party source it cannot be added into the article. You, yourself, are not a reliable source per Wikipedia, nor are fan videos. livelikemusic (TALK!) 04:01, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

During the July 13 concert in Atlanta, 'Crazy in Love', 'Public Service Announcement', Drunk in Love', and 'Partition' were performed with Jay-Z.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2025/07/14/beyonce-atlanta-concert-cowboy-carter-tour-recap-jay-z/85163963007/

During the July 14 concert in Atlanta, 'Crazy in Love', 'Public Service Announcement', 'I Just Wanna Love U (Give It 2 Me)', Drunk in Love', and 'Partition' were performed with Jay-Z.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2025/07/15/beyonce-atlanta-concert-recap-cowboy-carter-tour-night-4-jay-z/85202233007/ Qieoplj (talk) 14:27, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

1 only lists "Crazy in Love" and "Public Service Announcement" being performed; it states "Drunk in Love" and "Partition" were performed, but did not specifically state with Jay-Z. 2 mentions the same as 1 (albeit, not as definitively). livelikemusic (TALK!) 14:39, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

During the July 13 concert in Atlanta, 'Crazy in Love', and 'Public Service Announcement' were performed with Jay-Z, followed by ‘Drunk in Love', and 'Partition'.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2025/07/14/beyonce-atlanta-concert-cowboy-carter-tour-recap-jay-z/85163963007/

During the July 14 concert in Atlanta, 'Crazy in Love', 'Public Service Announcement', and ‘I Just Wanna Love U (Give It 2 Me)' was performed with Jay-Z, followed by ‘Drunk in Love', and ‘Partition’.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2025/07/15/beyonce-atlanta-concert-recap-cowboy-carter-tour-night-4-jay-z/85202233007/ Qieoplj (talk) 15:32, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

Don't need to re-link; once again, both citations state they were performed, but did not explicitly state they were performed with Jay-Z. Both citations were added to the article, representing what they both explicitly state, without violating WP:NOR. livelikemusic (TALK!) 15:41, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

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Change * During the June 29 concert in Houston, and the July 4 concert in Landover[ii], "16 Carriages" was not performed. to During the June 29 concert in Houston, and the concerts in Landover, "16 Carriages" was not performed.

Source https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2025/07/10/beyonce-rides-flying-horse-during-16-carriages-on-night-1-in-atlanta/84544779007/

As fans know, during her opening show in her hometown of Houston, which took place at NRG Stadium on June 28, Beyoncé was forced to pause the show because a technical glitch caused the vehicle to tilt midair. She told everyone to "stop" repeatedly before being safely lowered and landing the car among the audience. There were no injuries. At the following Houston show, Beyoncé cut "16 Carriages" from the set list completely and avoided flying in the air in a car. And many fans thought this part of the show might be permanently cut, as she completely skipped the song and stunt during her two shows at Northwest Stadium in Landover, Maryland — five miles east of Washington, D.C Qieoplj (talk) 13:45, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

 Done livelikemusic (TALK!) 17:05, 21 July 2025 (UTC)