Talk:David Reimer

Sideswipe9th, the article was changed in this edit a few months ago, despite having been stable for a long time before that. If you want to keep it changed, I think you should obtain a consensus here (or a broader one). The RFC at MOS:SUICIDE is pretty clear that people don't want to ban "commit". Unless there's some good reason to change it (and there isn't), it shouldn't have been changed in the first place. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 06:14, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

See also this previous discussion, which the edit I undid seems to go against. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 06:17, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I have just reverted a change to "died by" back to "committed" per the existing consensus that the IP has noted here. However I note that Frank did point to a twitter post that seems to be referring to a style guide that recommends avoiding "committed". That being the case, it may be time to revisit the issue. However a new consensus is still needed to over-ride an existing one. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:46, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Basically agreed, however, our style guide is MOS:, not Twitter. Mathglot (talk) 11:36, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

True, but MOS:SUICIDE does state that while "committed suicide" is not banned, it is discouraged by many of the external style guides the MOS derives from. There's some pretty convincing arguments in those style guides for why we shouldn't use that terminology. Sideswipe9th (talk) 23:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I think "that's the way we've always done it" is a poor reason to avoid a more enlightened (though I don't love that word) terminology. I fully understand there isn't a consensus to ban the use of "committed". Equally important, though, I don't think there's a good reason to avoid a move to a more modern wording that acknowledges the subject is complex. I don't think it's controversial to make the following statment: Died by is factual, while committed is far more likely to imply things that aren't intended or necessarily factual.  Frank  |  talk  22:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

died by suicide seems best to me. Zenomonoz (talk) 22:52, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Personally I dislike the passive "died by suicide". The style guides suggest "killed himself" would be fine. Avoids "committed" but remains active. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 23:33, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Seems reasonable. Zenomonoz (talk) 00:57, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Seconded. —Of the universe (say hello) 13:44, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

"Killed himself" is unnecessarily blunt. Wouldn't "took his own life" be acceptable? It's not a euphemism; it says exactly what happened. 98.47.213.93 (talk) 19:31, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

I would probably prefer took his own life, but killed himself is explicitly listed in MOS:SUICIDE so I'm not going to argue against it.

I am more concerned that the #Death section lists two methods of suicide in quick succession. This seems an unnecessary level of detail. Could we instead use something like,

Reimer was unemployed and experienced remorse due to the death of his brother Brian from suicide in 2002. On 2 May 2004, his wife Jane told him she wanted to separate. On the morning of 4 May 2004, Reimer took his life with a firearm in his hometown of Winnipeg.

Mgp28 (talk) 11:30, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

I've had a look at the references, except Geoff Rolls Classic Case Studies in Psychology, which I can't access. Some sources list his brother's death as due to suicide^[1] while others say It is not clear whether his death was due to an accidental overdose or suicide.^[2] The LA Times article^[1] doesn't seem to mention a grocery store parking lot. In light of all this, I've had a go at writing something more consistent with MOS:SUICIDE and with the references. Mgp28 (talk) 10:08, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

PS I've also removed "difficult lifelong relationship with his parents" which was unsourced. Mgp28 (talk) 10:11, 27 July 2025 (UTC)