Talk:Environmentalism

I've removed a section that had been added in this edit in 2023. I regard it as essay-like and not WP:DUE. This is the section that I removed: EMsmile (talk) 11:56, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

"Thermodynamic derived environmentalism is based on the second law of thermodynamics, minimization of exergy disruption (or entropy generation)and the concept of availability. It moves from the milestone work of Jan Szargut who emphasized the relation between exergy and availability,^[1] it is necessary to remember "Exergy Ecology and Democracy".^[2] by Goran Wall, a short essay, which evidences the strict relation that relates exergy disruption with environmental and social disruption. More recently it has verified that governmental emissions and impacts balances underestimate the effective GHG production by means of human processes. In fact, they often neglects the impacts of import/export related emissions. In addition they have analyzed the UN SDGs and the methods which are suggested for verifying the advances of the countries. This activity has evidenced that objective and coherent parameters are missing. Therefore, they suggest the introduction of exergy analysis as the most effective method for estimating the environmental degradation.^[3][4] Therefore, a novel fiscal model based on Exergy and availability disruption has been defined as the only possible way for overcoming the problems induced by the globalized markets." EMsmile (talk) 11:56, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

I see that recently, the article environmentalist was redirected to this article. That's good but I am just a bit baffled that nothing from that article was regarded as worth keeping? Was that a conscious decision or did it happen in a rush? E.g. at least those photos of people might be a bit useful? Although I wonder if we are better off creating a list article, such as list of environmental activists or alike? Pinging people who were involved in the earlier delete/redirect discussion: User:Benison, User:Eddie891, User:Bearian. EMsmile (talk) 09:39, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

EMsmile, it was a clear consensus to redirect the artixle. The edit history is saved under history and if you want to salvage anything, you are free to do so. Photos are saved in Commons, so they are not deleted or gone anywhere. You can add those into the article using proper reliable sources and add the images as per our policies and guidelines. — Benison (Beni · talk) 10:00, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

On a second glance, you are en experienced editor, who is already aware of it all. So you can go right ahead and add those content if RS supports it. Consensus was clear in redirecting it after a week of discussion. — Benison (Beni · talk) 10:01, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for your fast reply. Just for reference, the earlier discussion was here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Environmentalist. Perhaps I should also ping User:Anonymous who had proposed the redirect. Anonymous had also said "That said, a standalone list of notable environmentalists would be perfectly valid, and one could easily be created by splitting off the existing list within this article (presumably to List of environmentalists, which is currently a redirect)." It surprised me a little that the existing content was regarded as not worth keeping at all. I probably would have done a merge + redirect instead of just a redirect. So before potentially resurrecting any of the old stuff from the history I wanted to make sure that others hadn't already looked and deemed the old stuff as unworthy of keeping (thus saving me time). EMsmile (talk) 10:47, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

I think the status quo should remain. Bearian (talk) 17:39, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

Why? Have you assessed the old content and determined that it's all completely useless? EMsmile (talk) 18:15, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

I've moved the names of environmentalists from the old version into the current version, and removed duplicates. I still favour moving this bullet-point list to a stand-alone article. Or to cull and condense it down. In its current format it's next to useless. EMsmile (talk) 21:08, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

I've also moved some sentences that I found useful from the old "environmentalist" article version into environmentalism and environmental movement. By the way, I think climate activists are their own growing, not necessarily a sub-grouping of "environmentalist" EMsmile (talk) 21:28, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

I think we should move the section on environmentalists into a separate list article: List of environmentalists, even though the term "environmentalist" is not very well defined and could include almost anyone and anything (so it'll probably become fairly useless in the end). The list could look similar to List of climate activists. EMsmile (talk) 07:50, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

I've done a bit of work on this article now in parallel with work on environmental movement, especially on the "history" section. I have explained my thinking on the talk page of environmental movement. EMsmile (talk) 18:50, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

I've removed this section about Peter Kropotkin as I don't find it WP:DUE nor sourced properly. The last statement would need a source, and it's unclear what the relevance of social ecology is here.

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Peter Kropotkin wrote about ecology in economics, agricultural science, conservation, ethology, criminology, urban planning, geography, geology and biology. He observed in Swiss and Siberian glaciers that they had been slowly melting since the dawn of the industrial revolution, possibly making him one of the first predictors for climate change. He also observed the damage done from deforestation and hunting.^[1] Kropotkin's writings would become influential in the 1970s and became a major inspiration for the intentional community movement as well as his ideas becoming the basis for the theory of social ecology.

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EMsmile (talk) 21:13, 5 May 2025 (UTC) EMsmile (talk) 21:13, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

I've removed excessive detail from one primary source; might be interesting but in my opinion not WP:DUE. Moved to talk page for further discussion. I left one paragraph coming from this paper but removed the following two:

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Grove argues that as European colonization expanded, so did the European interaction with land and indigenous people, providing Europeans with an awareness of the destructive consequences of their economic and colonial activities on the newly "discovered" lands. As global trade expanded through colonization, the European concept of nature underwent a transformation, with the foreign tropical environments of their conquests evolving into romantic symbols of idyllic landscapes that required care and protection by Europeans. Examples of this impact of colonization on the Western mindset can be found in prominent cultural references, such as William Shakespeare's play "The Tempest" and Andrew Marvell's poem "Bermoothes."^[2]

Although this newfound self-awareness among Europeans about the destructive impacts of colonization on the environment did not halt the expansion of colonization itself, it did pave the way for a different approach to colonization – one focused on the preservation and protection of foreign natural resources. This phenomenon can be linked to the emergence of Edenic thinking, or the quest for Eden on Earth. This quest to locate Eden gained prominence in the 15th century, coinciding with colonization, and fostered the belief that newly "discovered" lands, especially tropical ones, had the potential to be heavenly paradises.^[2]

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EMsmile (talk) 21:35, 5 May 2025 (UTC) EMsmile (talk) 21:35, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

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