Talk:Hargeisa

Hargeisa is the second largest city of Somalia after the capital Mogadishu.^[1][2]Therefore, is very important piece of information that would be informative for readers. If you dispute this information being included in the article can you state your reasons here. And note - This is content is independent of the Somalia-Somaliland relationship. Xargaga (talk) 23:03, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

I don’t think the relationship can be ignored entirely if the city is no longer actually governed by Somalia. I would suggest a qualified statement, Hargeisa is the second-largest city within the internationally recognized boundaries of Somalia, after the capital Mogadishu or something like that.—Odysseus1479 10:02, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

There should be a (self-declared) around country and you should mention the actual country(somalia). Hurbad (talk) 10:23, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Please refer to my comment here . Lack of de jure recognition does not mean it isn't a country. Koodbuur (talk) 15:22, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

It isn’t a country, it’s a state part of Somalia. Please stop undermining the sovereignty of Somalia. Amin Farah ibn-Mujahid (talk) 14:10, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

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I've amended the lead and the infobox to make clear that Hargeisa is de facto part of the sovereign state of Somaliland, while internationally recognised as part of Somalia. The Somaliland article itself also clearly and prominently states this distinction, so I see no reason why it should be omitted here. Note also that e.g. Sukhumi (Abkhazia) and Stepanakert (Artsakh), comparable in terms of status and (lack of) recognition, handle this the same way. Lennart97 (talk) 15:19, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

it's already clearfull so doesn't need to added infobox, you added Somaliland a self-declared sovereign state internationally considered to be part of Somalia. Thank you --Siirski (talk) 15:54, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

It’s has been changed again to “ Somaliland” which isn’t even a country. Please re-establish de facto Somaliland de jure Somalia. Amin Farah ibn-Mujahid (talk) 16:14, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@Amin Farah ibn-Mujahid: Please stop indiscriminately swapping Somaliland for Somalia; it's disruptive and it will eventually get you blocked. I agree with you to the extent that Somalia should be mentioned alongside Somaliland, but Somaliland is a sovereign country and denying that isn't going to get you anywhere.

@Siirski: The purpose of an infobox is precisely to summarize, and thus duplicate, information from the rest of the article. So the information already being in the article is a reason to include it in the infobox too, not a reason to not include it in the infobox. Just compare the abovementioned Sukhumi and Stepanakert, or any other capital of a state with similarly limited recognition. It's common practice to name both the de jure and de facto state in the infobox. Lennart97 (talk) 16:57, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@Lennart97: There is already a consensus to leave the de facto status for the Somaliland article, which explains it perfectly. It would be redundant to add it everywhere else. Someone who reads articles on Somaliland's cities should already be familiar with Somaliland's status. Dabaqabad (talk) 17:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

“Diplomatic recognition in international law is a unilateral declarative political act of a state that acknowledges an act or status of another state or government in control of a state (may be also a recognized state). Recognition can be accorded either on a de facto or de jure basis.” Using only Somaliland's flag, an unrecognized state is misleading. Please reconsider your decision. Amin Farah ibn-Mujahid (talk) 17:12, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@Dabaqabad: We should mention Somaliland's legal status wherever it's relevant - the article about its capital is obviously one such place. By your logic, why even mention that Hargeisa is located in the Horn of Africa? That's already covered at Somaliland too, and thus redundant. That's just not how Wikipedia works - there's no such policy as "mentioning the same information in multiple articles is redundant", and I'm sure you can think of plenty of examples of how silly it would be if it were. So it seems that you really only have a problem with this one very specific piece of "redundant" information. And as for Someone who reads articles on Somaliland's cities should already be familiar with Somaliland's status. That is also absolutely not how Wikipedia works. It's entirely reasonable that readers come across this article without knowing what Somaliland even is. And please explain why articles such as Sukhumi, Stepanakert, Tskhinvali and Tiraspol all have it wrong, too. Lennart97 (talk) 17:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@Lennart97: By that logic we would have to add China to all Taiwan-related articles. That wouldn't be reasonable, would it? Somaliland's situation should be compared to Taiwan (which similarly has full sovereignty over its territory and lacks recognition) rather than compared to Abkhazia (which sovereignty is very fluid, with scholars arguing that it's effectively under Russian control while Somaliland is wholly independent from foreign influence). A great example of how Somaliland's cities should be portrayed is Hualien County in Taiwan. Your edits would not make a sufficient distinction between Somaliland and Somalia clear, which is the main issue. This and the fact that you would go against a long-standing consensus agreed upon by long-standing and respected editors.

Like I said before, Somalia has no jurisdiction nor sovereignty over Somaliland's territory. A recent example is a $442 million deal signed by the Somaliland and Dubai's DP World for the management of Berbera Port. The deal went through despite objections by the Federal Government of Somalia . Dabaqabad (talk) 02:22, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Dabaqabad: Can I assume you're watching this page so I don't have to ping you anymore? :) I'm glad to see that your main argument is not simply "redundancy", but apart from that, I'm not convinced by your point, mainly because I don't think Taiwan is a good comparison at all. Taiwan is recognised by 15 countries, and equally importantly, many more countries, including world powers like the EU, the USA and Russia maintain unofficial relations with it. Compare that to Somaliland, which is recognised by zero countries and has unofficial relations with only a handful - that's just not a good comparison. As for Abkhazia, indeed its sovereignty is in question - but because of Russia's influence, not Georgia's, but still its status as de jure Georgian is rightfully mentioned. I think the main point is this: Not a single government in the world will tell you that Hargeisa is the capital of Somaliland (even though I do not dispute that it de facto absolutely is) and that is precisely why it's important information to mention at the Hargeisa article. That Somalia has zero influence in Hargeisa doesn't make the information that the world considers it part of Somalia less encyclopedic and worthy of mention.

I don't really see the long-standing consensus agreed upon by long-standing and respected editors, unless I'm missing something. Scrolling up I see the occasional message from some pro-Somalia POV pusher followed by a rebuttal that Somaliland is in fact a country, but no real discussion about encyclopedic merits of including or excluding Somaliland's de jure status. Sure, there's a clear and obvious consensus that Hargeisa is in Somaliland and that the article should state this - which I'm not going against in any way; I'm just saying it would be encyclopedic and useful to mention that it is not internationally recognised as such. Regardless, even if there is such a consensus, I think it's good to have this discussion. In fact, if we can't resolve this between the two of us, it might be useful to ask for some outside input - maybe WP:Africa? Lennart97 (talk) 10:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Lennart97: Yes I'm indeed watching this page haha so no need to ping me.

World powers also maintain unofficial relations with Somaliland just like Taiwan. It maintains representative liaison offices in the US , UK , while European states like the UK and Denmark have liaison offices in the country. Somaliland has much more in common with Taiwan than places like Abkhazia, which as I pointed out barely has sovereignty because of Russia and can be argued to be a puppet state. Somaliland is fully independent meanwhile and adding that, while understandable, does not make a sufficient distinction between the two.

Taiwan, which is your main argument, still lacks any diplomatic recognition from world powers, same with Somaliland and as for the 15 countries that do recognize it, they are small uninfluential countries (save for the Vatican City) and they recognize it as the legitimate government of China, not as an independent country (see Foreign relations of Taiwan, which supports my argument that both Taiwan and Somaliland lack recognition of their independence.

As for your main point Not a single government in the world will tell you that Hargeisa is the capital of Somaliland (thanks btw this feature is dope :)), multiple governments actually recognize Hargeisa as the capital of Somaliland, that's not disputed. Examples include USAID , which recognizes Hargeisa as the capital of Somaliland, as well as many articles from reputable sources that explicitly mentions Hargeisa as the capital of Somaliland (see and )

In addition, most states deal with Somaliland directly like a sovereign state, for example the UAE signed a deal with the Somaliland government in 2017 despite the objects of the Somali government. Another example is when Somaliland rejected a proposed visit by Ethiopia's PM Abiye Ahmed accompanied by Somalia's President Farmaajo to Somaliland , while NY Times reported five days ago the first ever meeting between heads of Somalia and Somaliland, which happened in the office of Ethiopia's PM during the recent AU summit . It is worth noting that both were accorded presidential welcomes in Addis Ababa upon arrival.

Somaliland has had no link to Somalia for more than three decades so it would be very misleading to add mentions of Somalia to it, which is already covered extensively in the Somaliland article. If that doesn't clarify Somaliland's full sovereignty and Somalia's lack of sovereignty then I don't know what else will.

Another thing that that I'd like to add is that just like Somaliland is NOT a full state in the complete sense of the word (owing to lack of international recognition), Somalia too isn’t a full state in the complete sense of the word. Yes, it is recognised as a sovereign state by the UN and most countries in the world, but its government is very fragile and exerts little control on the ground, relying on +20,000 African Union soldiers to exist. Therefore Somalia has the opposite problem of Somaliland, it is a recognised state de jure, but lacks full de facto control on the ground.

We should not cater to the minority view and instead stick to the well established consensus that editors in good standing have reached like @Kzl55: and @El C:, which I'll need to find the link for. Dabaqabad (talk) 14:07, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

(You can stop pinging me too, and you're welcome for this :p ) It's certainly interesting to see that some governments indeed call Hargeisa the capital of Somaliland, but on the other hand that makes sense: you don't have to consider Somaliland a sovereign country for it to have a capital, as regions, provinces etc. have capitals, too. It doesn't change that no government recognises it as the capital of the sovereign nation of Somaliland and that, as a consequence, all governments do still consider it to be a part of Somalia, if only de jure. That some countries do directly deal with the Hargeisa government doesn't change that, either.

Honestly, I think this is less about the details of Somaliland's recognition and status than it is a simple issue of WP:NPOV. Yes, Hargeisa is the capital of Somaliland; my version of the lead/infobox does not diminish that in any way! It just clarifies that it is not internationally recognised as the capital of a sovereign nation; that is certainly not a minority viewpoint, as it's one held by all world governments. As such, it doesn't cater to a minority view; neither does the Somaliland article itself cater to a minority view by elaborating on Somaliland's lack of international recognition.

Or look at it like this: Reliable sources, too, typically mention Somaliland's status when discussing Hargeisa, including sources cited in this article. BBC's overview is just one example. Wikipedia follows reliable sources. Whether Somaliland is closer to Taiwan or to Abkhazia in status is ultimately irrelevant; an obvious practical difference is that reliable sources don't feel the need to point out Taiwan's status whenever they mention Taipei, because this is assumed to be common knowledge among the general public. Somaliland's status, not so much - how many people have heard of Somaliland in the first place? (I don't mean that in a bad way - I think Somaliland is fascinating, but I'd be surprised if even a handful of people I know have ever heard of it.) It doesn't benefit anyone to omit this information from this article.

Anyway, the above two paragraphs are the key issues here, I think. I'm also still curious to see whether indeed there is some well-discussed previous consensus on this, and whether the two editors pinged above have anything to add. Lennart97 (talk) 15:36, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@Dabaqabad: almost forgot about this. I guess you did too? Lennart97 (talk) 10:34, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

@Gebagebo: I have reverted your edit. You seem to say that this was POV. Can you please explain why this referenced text can’t be included on the article? Best, Shirshore (talk) 00:11, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Hargeisan isn't any of the demonyms of people in Hargeisa. 197.231.201.224 (talk) 05:25, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

This is pretty obvious, there's a stack of 5 images there. Esszet (talk) 02:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

@Gebagebo: I believe the inclusion of a pushpin map in the infobox on this page unnecessarily clutters it, pushing down the more important information on the page. This is already a very full infobox: with multiple good images, the flag, and city seal, so by having two maps, information is being repeated and taking up a lot of space. I fully believe in adding pushpin maps to pages that don't have these other things (like images), but when they do, pushpin maps are the least important of the bunch, and often take up most space. Could I remove this, or would you rather remove the interactive map? I really don't believe in having both. Cheers! Johnson524 15:34, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from now, if I had to pick between the two I'd go with keeping the interactive map. Gebagebo (talk) 10:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

somaliland was a defacto but a British protectorate taken independent June 26 1960 197.231.201.159 (talk) 17:59, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

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There is no evidence or proof the Eidagle and Habr yonis clans were the first settlers. It’s also contradictory to say hargeisa was founded as a watering point by the Arap clan and then next sentence say another clan was the first settlers.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Day Creature (talk) 05:49, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

Proposed change to the infobox

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Please change the "Status" field in the infobox from self-declared sovereign state to disputed territory per the recent United Nations resolution (source details here). Profshilabo (talk) 06:08, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

edit semi-protected),

}} Profshilabo (talk) 06:08, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

 Not done The parameter you are looking for does not exist. You could try making this request on Somaliland, though. Theeverywhereperson talk here 15:16, 5 January 2026 (UTC)