Talk:Indiggo

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Notes for FA Edits

Cutremurat Source

'<ref name="Cutremurat 2/26/2004">{{Citation |author=Cutremurat |date=February 26, 2004 |title=Mihaela Modorcea biografie |trans-title=Mihaela Modorcea biography | language=ro |url=http://www.cutremurat.org/2012/11/mihaela-modorcea-biografie_29.html |accessdate=August 12, 2018 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160911015604/http://www.cutremurat.org/2012/11/mihaela-modorcea-biografie_29.html |archive-date=September 11, 2016 |dead-url=yes}}</ref> was erroneously aged when it was inserted in 2/26/2014. They were still in Romania in 2004. I suspect it is undated. I don't need it and it will confuse the FA review. Vyeh (talk) 15:15, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Informal peer review by Nolelover

From Nolelover:

Here are initial thoughts as I read:

  • Too much info in the first sentence. Possibly just end the sentence after "singing-songwriting duo" or if the musical is the one reason they're notable, keep that and put the "signed with Imagem" clause elsewhere.
  • Second graf of the lede feels very quote heavy and tbh, the Miller source in particular doesn't seem so unique/well-written that it needs to be quoted instead of paraphrased.
  • I think as a whole the lede follows MOS:LEADREL pretty well.
  • The Indiggo#Family section could probably be trimmed a bit--if the parents have that much going on, some of the content that is less related to the twins should be in their own articles (assuming the notability question ofc).
  • Possibly restructure the Indiggo#Wicked_Clone_The_Cinema_Musical section so that the review comes at the end and the section opens with the background of the show itself (second graf), just so it flows a little better.
  • I can tell you haven't rewritten the Indiggo#Music section as it definitely feels like anon editors have just added individual sentences over the years to it. This one probably needs the most work/trim/cleanup--I can imagine that sourcing here is lacking though. Is there anything you can add or did that 2011 album rumor come to nothing?
  • I made a quick change in the Indiggo#Eurovision_qualifications. Possibly also shorten the quote from Sony BMG, since it's quite literally a press release? From "No wonder!" on to the end of the quote seems kinda fluff-y.

On the whole it seems pretty well structured and appropriate weight is given to the various aspects. I didn't have time to check sourcing but on the other hand, nothing stuck out as obviously needing a source. Unless you have a whole additional aspect of their career to write about (music?), it seems like you can tighten a couple of the sections, probably drop 100-150 words across the entire piece and have a really good article. Nolelover (talk) 15:28, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Previous bad-faith editing

An IP user and a registered editor used bad faith editing of Indiggo to attack Indiggo77, which had been used for years by Indiggo and their manager to edit the page.

Vyeh (talk) 18:46, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Background

  • Starting February 16, 2014, the IP account repeatedly edited Indiggo to change their description from "American" to "Romanian" and to claim that a book written by one of them was self-published.
  • They were banned an hour and a half later on February 20 for making a legal threat.

A legal threat, in this context, is a threat to engage in an external (real life) legal or other governmental process that would target other editors….
Rather than immediately blocking users who post apparent threats, administrators should first seek to clarify the user's intention if there is doubt. Blocking for legal threats is generally not such an urgent need that it must be done before determining whether an ambiguous statement was genuinely a threat of legal action.

  • Mosfetfaser pointed out “There is zero danger in that angry/hurt comment to the IP addie from the girls,” suggesting their statement is ambiguous.
  • There was no contact on Indiggo’s talk page to clarify whether their comment in the middle of the night was made from anger or hurt of the night or a veiled or indirect threat. Even if there had been an email, an hour and a half in the middle of their night is "immediate," violating Wikipedia's stated policy.
  • Complicating matters, both the IP and named accounts participated in the discussion. The named account even said, “And this suspected duck continues to make disruptive edits to Indiggo despite multiple warnings.” However, the named account made some of the warnings.
  • Indiggo77 blanked their talk page (but not their sandbox), suggesting they were leaving Wikipedia before they were banned.
  • Wikipedia was used by two accounts to attack Indiggo. Following Wikipedia's definition of legal threat requires the conclusion that consulting legal counsel is a formal process and that Indiggo77 was targeting an anonymous user, which is absurd. Another interpretation is that Indiggo77 was at the end of their rope and looking for an end to the anonymous harassment. That is enough to suggest ambiguity and the failure of Wikipedia to follow its stated policy. Vyeh (talk) 18:46, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
  • The page was nominated for deletion February 21, 2018. Claiming to have "removed all the unsourced, fake and self-promotional content, and rewritten some to accurately reflect the few reliable sources," the named editor said,

[T]he page has been exploited by the twins to promote their publicity for 5 years(!) ... [L]ots of efforts have already been spent on making it less biased .... [K]eeping this article can prevent future recreation of the same article in promotional language by their suspected sock puppets .... [T]he Romanian wiki page on Indiggo exists and needless to say the page is flooded with all unsourced promos (the Romanian wikipedia standards are probably different than the English site here). Maintaining a neutral, unbiased and accurate article about the twins here in the English site is not a bad idea. ... [H]aving our accurate and unbiased English version for readers' reference to offset the Romanian biased version is better than having only the Romanian biased version. Although the twins are so unpopular, we can't exclude the possibility that a few readers genuinely need accurate information about them."

Actions of the IP editor

  • First Indiggo related activity on February 16 at 1:54: added to this talk page “{{Notable Wikipedian|Indiggo77|Indiggo}},” a talk message box stating "The following Wikipedia contributors may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of the article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view. Indiggo77 (talk · contribs) / Indiggo Indiggo."
  • Second Indiggo related activity 14 minutes later: Remove 27% of the Indiggo with an edit summary of “deleted invalid sources.” However, the changes included the addition of “{{Notability|date=February 2014}}” and deletion of two “Bild” sources for Indiggo’s mother being a teacher of world literature, while three “Bild” sources were accepted for Indigo starting performance at the age of 12; being released by Sony, regularly appearing on German and European TV shows and receiving media support from “Bild;” and a quote by Dieter Bohlen. A broadwayworld.com cite, which was deleted.
  • February 20, 2:06: added a link to America's_Got_Talent_(season_3)#Top_40.2C_Part_4, which contained ‘Indiggo … Half of the audience were booing at Indiggo and Morgan called them "the worst dancers and the worst singers in the entire competition." Eliminated’ and the cite “<ref name="ep14"/>.”
  • February 20, 2:09: added 'Judge Piers Morgan called Mihaela and Gabriela Modorcea "the worst dancers and the worst singers in the entire competition.”<ref name="ep14”/>.' Note that the name of the reference is the same as in the preceding bullet.
  • February 20, 2:12 with the edit summary “edited for clarity:” added “and they were eliminated from the competition.”
  • February 20, 5:20 with the edit summary “reorganized and added source that says they're Romanian and America's Got Talent (reality TV) contestants: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/arts/music/jay-z-and-kanye-wests-watch-the-throne.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0:” created a subsection “America’s Got Talent” at the top of the page (below a one sentence lede and the TOC); moving the America’s Got Talent material from the middle of the article to the top (creating a quasi- attack page); and added “<ref> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/arts/music/jay-z-and-kanye-wests-watch-the-throne.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0</ref>.” The sole material in the NYT source on Indiggo is: "Furthermore, a close reading of the liner notes reveals gems: … a moving sample from the Indiggo Twins, “America’s Got Talent” punching bags and, as described here, “ambassadors of the great Romanian tradition” (which?)," a fictitious reference, supporting neither of the two clauses of the sentence: the quote or Indiggo’s elimination.
  • February 24, 10:03 with the edit summary “added two sources that I saw at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Indiggo, added and deleted categories:” added “<ref>http://www.today.com/id/25222768/ns/today-today_entertainment/t/rowdy-beginning-americas-got-talent/#.UwsR_F6V-EJ</ref><ref>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ed-martin/americas-got-talent-is-an_b_109568.html</ref></nowiki>.” The sole material in the Today (“rowdy”) commentary on Indiggo is 'Then, Romanian twin sisters who went by the name of Indiggo did a heinous rendition of Frank Sinatra’s “New York, New York.” The judges acknowledged the singing was terrible, but must have been feeling charitable as they gave the twins a pass so they could have another chance to impress in Vegas,' another fictitious reference, not supporting the crowd booing (see the second bullet of the named editor, below), the quote nor the elimination. In fact, it said Indiggo advanced. The sole material in The Huffington Post’s “The Blog” on Indiggo is “There were a few of the weirdos on hand for which this show is known, including … a set of aggressively talentless twins from Romania who refer to themselves as Indiggo and positively murdered New York, New York. (They were so fantastically terrible and so relentless in their self-promotion that Piers and Sharon voted them through to the Las Vegas semi-finals.)” — a third fictitious reference, not supporting the crowd booing, Piers Morgan’s quote on them being the worst singers and dancers in the competition nor the elimination. In fact, it said two of the three judges, Piers and Sharon, voted to advance them.

Vyeh (talk) 18:46, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Actions of the named editor

  • Reverted Indiggo77’s revisions on February 20 at 5:45 (first Indiggo related activity).
  • February 21, 21:10 with edit summary “Removal of unsourced/fake/self-promotional content, rewriting some to accurately reflect the few, near non existent sources. Sinking sections. Check talk page consensus:” added “The audience were booing at Indiggo and .“ At this time, there were only two cites, the New York Times source discussed in the seventh bullet of the IP editor’s actions above, and the 14th episode of Season 3 of America’s Got Talent, a primary source that has not been issued as a DVD and was most likely not available 5 and a half years after its initial airing. The New York Times source does not mention the audience booing. America's Got Talent (season 3)#Top 40, Part 4, which cites the same episode, says “Half of the audience were booing at Indiggo and,“ showing the probable origin of the addition and a neutrality violation.
  • March 3, 17:36 with an edit summary of “m Restoring valid, reliable independent sources that were deleted / replaced with irrelevant sources in the previous editing warring:” deleted “<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.today.com/id/25222768/ns/today-today_entertainment/t/rowdy-beginning-americas-got-talent/#.UwsR_F6V-EJ |title=A rowdy beginning to ‘America's Got Talent’ - today > entertainment - Reality TV |publisher=TODAY.com |date=2008-06-18 |accessdate=2014-02-24}}</ref>” (see the last bullet point of “The Actions of the IP Editor” above for the contents of Today (“rowdy”); added “<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.today.com/id/26543306 |title=Kaitlyn adorable, but should she be on ‘Talent’? > entertainment - Reality TV |publisher=TODAY.com |date=2008-06-18 |accessdate=2014-02-24}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.realitytvworld.com/realitytvdb/americas-got-talent-3/ |title=America's Got Talent 3 |publisher=realitytvworld.com}}</ref>. The sole material in the Today (“Kaitlyn”) cite, which has the same author and publisher as, but a different date (which the named editor failed to change) from, the Today (“rowdy”) cite is ‘Indiggo, the Romanian twin sisters who have skated by on attitude and personality, got an earful of boos from the crowd throughout their performance of a campy, hokey song they said was written by Dieter Bohlen, a German producer. “Oh, well, no wonder; it’s bloody German!” Osbourne said. The Hoff, who arguably owes his musical career to the Greater Bavaria Area, said, “Oh, no, you don’t want to go there.” And Morgan couldn’t resist chiming in with, “We all know about German taste in music, don’t we?” Getting back to the twins, though, Morgan called them “the worst dancers and the worst singers in the competition.” “I think I speak for the whole of America,” Morgan said, “when I say that the sooner you are shipped back to Romania, the better.”’ It supports the booing and the quote, but is silent on elimination, although that seems to be implied. At the end of the Reality TV World cite is ‘This article uses material from the Wikipedia article "America's Got Talent (season 3)”.’ The most astonishing thing is that it tracks the language and format of America's Got Talent (season 3) until it ends abruptly after the fifth line of a ten line table. The material on Indiggo is just above the truncated table. There is more detail in my post on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard. To my amazement, the essay on fictitious references doesn’t cover the creation of a source.

Vyeh (talk) 18:46, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Afterword

  • Both the IP and the named accounts are stale or I would be sending this story to the appropriate administrator.
  • A second named editor, neutral in the edit war, re-inserted Today (“rowdy”) on March 4, 20:36 and a Romanian cite on March 4, 21:08 and changed “The audience were booing at Indiggo” to “The audience booed” and “and they were eliminated from the competition” to “but they were promoted in the competition to the Vegas round.” Using Google translation, the Romanian cite supports that Indiggo advanced to the semifinals. It is silent on the audience booing and the only reference to Piers Morgan is that he voted to advance them to the second round.

Vyeh (talk) 18:46, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

00:42, 26 March 2014, in violation of Wikipedia policy. Vyeh (talk) 02:09, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

The Seven Cites

When I started examining America’s Got Talent, there were seven cites to 'The audience booed, and judge Piers Morgan called Mihaela and Gabriela Modorcea "the worst dancers and the worst singers in the entire competition," but they were promoted in the competition to the semi-final Vegas round.'

Vyeh (talk) 18:46, 19 August 2018 (UTC), Vyeh (talk) 09:57, 20 August 2018 (UTC) and Vyeh (talk) 01:48, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

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