Talk:Yasuke
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Q1: Why is Yasuke described as a samurai, and not a retainer?
A1: A request for comment (Talk:Yasuke/Archive 3#RfC: Should the view that Yasuke was a samurai be added to the article) found, based on the reliable sources that exist on the topic, a clear consensus that Yasuke should be represented in the article as a samurai. Wikipedia describes things as they are described in reliable sources (see WP:NPOV). Any change to this consensus would likely require significant new sources to be presented. Q2: Why can't I use my own expertise or reading of the primary sources?
A2: Per WP:V, etc, content is determined by previously published information rather than editors' beliefs, opinions, experiences, or previously unpublished ideas or information. Even if you are sure something is true, it must have been previously published in a reliable source before you can add it.See also WP:OR, WP:NPOV for more information. |
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Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2025
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I request for where it says "African origin" to be changed to "sub-Saharan African origin" since only sub-Saharan Africans are black. North Africans are Arabs, Berbers, and Egyptian Copts, not black people. North Africans are a different race to sub-Saharan Africans, similar to how East Asians are a different race to South Asians. 2A0A:EF40:1281:8E01:A4FE:F20A:395C:86D7 (talk) 15:03, 20 September 2025 (UTC)
Not done: The article's reference to Yasuke being of African origin simply means that he came from the continent of Africa; nothing more, nothing less. The contemporary racial categories you mention aren't particularly relevant in the context of Sengoku period Japan. Day Creature (talk) 16:05, 20 September 2025 (UTC)
- The article said that Yasuke was black and black people only come from sub-Saharan Africa. 2A0A:EF40:1281:8E01:1E8:CE4F:F0CA:E40A (talk) 10:10, 21 September 2025 (UTC)
- The statement we're discussing is about his geographic origin, not his race. Day Creature (talk) 19:18, 21 September 2025 (UTC)
- If Yasuke was black, then he would obviously be specifically from sub-Saharan Africa since sub-Saharan Africa are the only regions in Africa where black people come from. Also the article said that Yasuke most likely came from Mozambique, which is a country in sub-Saharan Africa. 2A0A:EF40:1281:8E01:F829:8FE1:A59F:EE50 (talk) 12:38, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
- We don't have to get that specific in the opening sentence. It's adequate to just say that he was of African origin and then expand more on what part of Africa he may have been from later in the article. At this point, your edit request has been answered and is not going to be implemented, so there is no reason to continue discussing it here. Day Creature (talk) 14:33, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
- But we have to say that he was sub-Saharan African in the first sentence in order for people to immediately know that he was black. 2A0A:EF40:1281:8E01:E806:9A98:D527:CF1B (talk) 12:11, 24 September 2025 (UTC)
- No, we do not. That's frankly a bizarre statement. Yasuke lived his life well before the advent of modern racial classifications. Even for figures like Martin Luther King Jr. or W.E.B. Du Bois, it would be strange to insist that the reader must be immediately alerted to their race in the opening sentence.
- This will be my final reply in this discussion, as I do not think it will be productive to continue discussing the matter with you. Day Creature (talk) 14:58, 24 September 2025 (UTC)
- Not to mention it's based on the incorrect view of "Black= always sub-Saharan" when there are plenty of peoples who would be considered "Black" native to the Sahel and we have no evidence that he was or wasn't from any specific region or ethnic group. Hell, he could have been Haratin from North Africa for all the evidence we have. DragonBrickLayer (talk) 00:26, 28 September 2025 (UTC)
- But we have to say that he was sub-Saharan African in the first sentence in order for people to immediately know that he was black. 2A0A:EF40:1281:8E01:E806:9A98:D527:CF1B (talk) 12:11, 24 September 2025 (UTC)
- We don't have to get that specific in the opening sentence. It's adequate to just say that he was of African origin and then expand more on what part of Africa he may have been from later in the article. At this point, your edit request has been answered and is not going to be implemented, so there is no reason to continue discussing it here. Day Creature (talk) 14:33, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
- If Yasuke was black, then he would obviously be specifically from sub-Saharan Africa since sub-Saharan Africa are the only regions in Africa where black people come from. Also the article said that Yasuke most likely came from Mozambique, which is a country in sub-Saharan Africa. 2A0A:EF40:1281:8E01:F829:8FE1:A59F:EE50 (talk) 12:38, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
- The statement we're discussing is about his geographic origin, not his race. Day Creature (talk) 19:18, 21 September 2025 (UTC)
- The article said that Yasuke was black and black people only come from sub-Saharan Africa. 2A0A:EF40:1281:8E01:1E8:CE4F:F0CA:E40A (talk) 10:10, 21 September 2025 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
