User talk:Cent58

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Happy editing! :Jay8g [V•T•E] 03:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

hi @Cent58! happy to see you dropping those awesome edits on those second sino japanese war pages. i gotta ask, where are you finding these articles? i'm super interested. thanks! :) Wahreit (talk) 05:14, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

I mostly follow some accounts in Zhihu that specialize in comparing Chinese, Taiwanese, and Japanese historical materials instead of relying on just one side's source. The official Japanese newspaper that many of the articles use can be found in the NDL digital collections website. The "戰地其他死亡者" section of the Official Gazette "官报" list the names and units of the deceased soldiers along with their location and time of death. Though it does require a deep knowledge of the Imperial Japanese Army military structure to understand it and it stops mostly at the end of 1939. Another website you can use for Japanese historical records is the Japan Center for Asian Historical Records which has an English version. For Chinese historical materials from the perspective of the Nationalists, you can use the ahonline dot drnh dot gov dot tw and aa dot archives dot gov dot tw websites. Cent58 (talk) 08:04, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

thanks @Cent58. if its not too much trouble, would you be able to take a look at japanese casualties in the snlf (naval marines) and the 3rd army division between october 27 and november 1 in the shanghai area? im interested in editing the sihang warehouse page, but the current japanese figure looks a bit suspicious to me. it would be much appreciated, thanks! Wahreit (talk) 18:17, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

From 27 October until 1 November 1937, the SNLF suffered many wounded fighting in Zhabei, including 3 who would die of their wounds. Among them, one, warrant officer Tanaka Shiroku, incurred his injury near Sihang Warehouse. The 3rd division did not participate in the battle. Instead, the division suffered 60 combat deaths at the north bank of Suzhou River from 27 until 30 October and 288 combat deaths from 31 October until 1 November trying to cross the river. So it is true that there was only one combat death in the SNLF (the IJA did not participate) from the battle. Cent58 (talk) 03:47, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

gotcha, appreciate the help. if you're free, would you also be able to find the casualty number for these units and dates? i'd like to update some of the pages with the info:

- ija + ijn forces between november 11 to december 14 (the nanjing campaign); i dont really trust benjamin lai's figure for the entire campaign overall

- 3rd division between September 4 and 6 (Baoshan)

- snlf losses between august 13 and august 23

thanks in advance @Cent58 Wahreit (talk) 06:43, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

The Imperial Japanese Army had a total of 21,898 combat deaths (excluding deaths from illness and accidents) in East China in 1937. Subtracting the losses of the IJA from 23 August until the fall of Shanghai on 12 November, there were a total of 3,906 combat deaths and over 600 non-combat deaths from 13 November until the end of December 1937 (nearly all should be before December 14).

The 3rd division suffered 75 combat deaths from 4 until 5 September 1937. However, the IJA 3rd division was facing the main force of the NRA 6th division and Independent 37th brigade outside Baoshan during that time period. It was only on the 6th of September that the 3rd division surrounded Baoshan after the 6th division and independent 37th brigade had to retreat due to excessive casualties. On the 6th, the 3rd division suffered 49 combat deaths, but the division was not only fighting the Baoshan defenders. A section of the division launched a sneak attack at the Qiujiang Wharf, fighting against the 366th regiment of the 61st division, the 342nd regiment of the 57th division, and a portion of the independent 20th brigade, and suffered 20-30 killed in action. So the amount of losses the 3rd division suffered to take the city of Baoshan itself was around two dozen killed, which is not surprising as they stormed the city with tanks and heavy artillery. Still, Yao Ziqing's 500-man battalion was recorded by the Japanese army as having fought bravely, with Colonel Nishihara praising their spirits in fighting against tanks with grenades.

The SNLF had a total of 276 combat deaths from 13 August until 23 August 1937. The SNLF definitely perform well against the elite of the NRA in the 10-day defensive operation. During the first offensive at Baji Bridge on August 14, the 88th division suffered more than a thousand casualties, including the death of brigade commander Huang Meixing, while the SNLF facing them had only 8 fatalities. On 21 August during the first Chinese tank assault in history, the 36th division failed to coordinate with the two tank companies attached to the division and suffered heavy casualties, with as many as 1,200 casualties, while the SNLF only suffered several dozen casualties (including 6 killed). The only battle where the NRA performed well in these ten days seems to be the attack on the Guangzhong Road on 16 August by the 88th division, where the SNLF suffered more than 200 casualties (including 83 killed) and at least 3 tanks were destroyed or damaged. Aside from that, the Chinese army could not break through the positions of the SNLF, even with stormtrooper tactics, and failed in their initial objective of driving the SNLF to sea. Cent58 (talk) 08:17, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Also forgot to add to the first point, the IJN from 13 November until 11 December 1937 had 44 combat deaths (4 SNLFs, 6 naval crew, and 34 from the IJNAF) along with 2 missing (presumed captured) from the IJNAF. One sailor was also killed in action on 16 December 1937 (according to Chinese source, there were three Chinese soldiers who tried to break out from Nanjing on that day in a raft but when they see the anchored Umikaze destroyer they decided to fire upon the destroyer, killing one of the crew with all three being killed soon after by returning fire). 4 SNLFs and 1 sailor also died in 1938 from wounds sustained during the battle of Shanghai. Cent58 (talk) 10:04, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

appreciate the help. would you be interested in putting those numbers into the battle of nanjing page? i can't access zhihu myself so it would be a really nice addition to the page. Wahreit (talk) 20:30, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Done Cent58 (talk) 05:50, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

>During the first offensive at Baji Bridge on August 14, the 88th division suffered more than a thousand casualties, including the death of brigade commander Huang Meixing, while the SNLF facing them had only 8 fatalities

didn't huang meixings unit destroy dozens of japanese fortifications during his attack on bazi bridge?

And During Song Xilian's units attack on Huishan wharf caused 400 casualties to japan for 570 of his? Vantage153 (talk) 08:45, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

didn't a few hundred snlf marine troops go into the british concession to surrender during the 36th divisions attack on huishan wharf? Vantage153 (talk) 09:00, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

1. Huang Meixing's offensive at Guangzhong Road only resulted in the capture of a few strongholds. The 264th brigade might actually have been close to capturing one of the six main SNLF positions in that direction as the position was defended only by a platoon and in the initial assault more than 10 were already killed or wounded. However, Huang Meixing had placed the headquarters of the brigade at the front-line to obtain better information and boost the morale of his troops, and before they could make a breakthrough a mortar shell hit the headquarters, killing Huang Meixin and the chief of staff of the brigade. Thus, the offensive was called off. The attack on Bazi Bridge was also a failure, as the SNLF quickly sent in armored vehicles to stabilize the front.
2. The 400 casualties and SNLFs fleeing to the British concession were both claims made by the 36th division. The SNLF did not lose much troops or positions in the attack.

Cent58 (talk) 10:24, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Theres also websites that say in the first day of Bazi Bridge assault the SNLF losses were 106 killed and 337 wounded. on the SNLF's 1st and 3rd brigade. Krips15 (talk) 14:38, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

in the entire battle of shanghai, japanese sources claim the chinese soldiers killed in action as 67,000 in their source of 250,000 killed and wounded. you think this is accurate?

since most battles in the second sino japanese war the killed to wounded ratio was usually at 1:3 Krips15 (talk) 14:41, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

do you also think that IJA total combat casualties in shanghai was 90,000 or 100,000. since 3rd, 11th, 9th, 101st divisions alone suffered over 90% casualties. Krips15 (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

on the chinese wikipedia says IJA casualties in the first year was 51,000 killed and 200,000 wounded, other than shanghai and nanjing, what other fronts would cause their casualties? Krips15 (talk) 14:44, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

51220 killed and 204880 wounded to be exact Krips15 (talk) 14:46, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

also was a problem the NRA had in the battle of shanghai that their troops had to cross long distances to reach the frontline so their frontline strength was usually at 350,000 - 400,000 against roughly 200,000 IJA 3rd, 11th, 9th, 101st, 13th, TMB etc? Krips15 (talk) 15:04, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

1. The SNLF lost 106 men on August 15 and August 16 which many attributed to the battle on August 14. Lieutenant Takashi for example was killed on August 16, not on the 14th as some Chinese sources claimed.

2. According to incomplete statistics, the Chinese Army suffered 229,382 casualties in the battle of Shanghai. There are two figures for the specification of casualties. According to the National Congress of the Kuomintang, there were 9,073 officers and 105,500 soldiers killed in action and 9,225 officers and 105,584 soldiers wounded in action. According to the Military Commission of the Kuomintang, there were 3,823 officers and 72,637 soldiers killed in action and 7,646 officers and 145,276 soldiers wounded in action. For both figures it is unknown if the number of missing is included in the number of killed or just not included as many individual units’ battle report included the number of missing.

The second figure is suspect as the number of wounded officers is just the number of killed officers multiplied by two and the number of wounded soldiers is the number of killed soldiers multiplied by two then with the addition of two. This problem is similar in the other War Zones, as the First War Zone in the same source was reported to have suffered 2,303 officers and 43,755 soldiers killed and 4,605 officers and 87,508 soldiers wounded. The Second War Zone was reported to have suffered 1,326 officers and 25,194 soldiers killed and 2,652 officers and 50,389 soldiers wounded. Thus the first figure should be more accurate with a nearly 1:1 killed : wounded ratio, which is a common ratio for the Nationalist Chinese Army in many other major battles.

3. Japanese combat casualties in the battle of Shanghai is estimated to be at 80,000 with several tens of thousands more fallen ill.

4. The ‘51,220 killed and 204,880 wounded’ figure is the Chinese Army’s claim, not based on Japanese report. The IJA and IJN lost more than 25,000 men in Eastern China and nearly 10,000 in North China. Most of the casualties in North China were from the battle of Beiping-Tianjin, Operation Chahar, Beiping-Hankou and Tianjin-Pukou Railway Operations, and the battle of Taiyuan.

5. The frontline strength was actually much smaller. The Chinese Army did not deploy of their troops to the battlefield at once. Whenever one division had been exhausted after days of fighting, another division would take its place while it rested and reorganized. When that division was in a similar state another division would take its place, and so on. The Chinese Army would cycle between units throughout the battle so the total number of troops at the frontline did not exceed 200,000. Cent58 (talk) 03:22, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

hi @Cent58! i hope you've been well.

following up to ask for your help with a few , as i'd like to improve the battle of nanjing page again. would you be able to find the figures for these engagements?

battle casualties for the Japanese 10th Army (6th, 18th, 114th Divisions), and the opposing Sichuanese Divisions (23rd Group Army) between November 25 - November 30 near Guangde/Lake Tai.

losses for the Japanese 9th Division and the Chinese 74th Corps (51st Division) near the Chunhua defense line between December 4 - December 8

losses and remaining strengths for the 66th and 83th Corps of the Guangdong Army, the 36th Division and the overall Nanjing garrison after escaping Nanjing.

also a quick clarification for Baoshan, since the Japanese 3rd Division attacked on the 6th, which units attacked the city on september 4 and 5 (according to Harmsen's book).

would you also be able to update the figures on battle of wuhan page? the infobox looks a bit sloppy rn. thanks! Wahreit (talk) 09:02, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

The strength and losses of the Nanjing Garrison will be a long one so I'll tackle this first. Since the Chinese military was very disorganized in 1937, there is unfortunately no unified statistics for the army in Eastern China, so there is a lot of conflicting information regarding the units involved in Nanjing :

1. 2nd Army Corps (41st and 48th division) : crossed the Yangtze river on the 12th of December, and thus is the unit most intact. The 41st and 48th divisions and the headquarters each had their own battles reports, totalling 3,966 killed and 1,112 wounded, with 11,851 survivors.

3. 71st Corps (87th division) : only 300 or 500 troops managed to breakout from Nanjing as division commander Wang Jingjiu chose to flee the city alongside Tang Shengzhi on 12 December 1937 without informing his men of the retreat order. Thus, the division continued fighting on the 13th when most of the other units were in the process of breaking out or had already crossed the Yangtze River.

4. 72nd Corps (88th division) : there's many different statistics for the number of escapees :

a. Yu Jishi reported on 21 December 1937 that he had taken in 1,573 officers and soldiers from the 88th division.

b. According to the memoir of staff officer Lu Weisan, brigade commanders Liao Lingqi and Wu Qiujian each led nearly a thousand troops (most of whom are wounded) to cross the river in 300 sailboats from the division's supply battalion.

c. According to division commander Sun Yuanliang himself, he gathered more than 600 scattered troops from his headquarters and arrived at Wuhan in late March 1938.

5. 74th Corps (51st and 58th division) : Before the fall of the city, corps commander Yu Jishi had asked his cousin Yu Feipeng, the Minister of Transportation, for two steamboats, which he would use to evacuate his men from Nanjing. According to his own report on 21 December 1937, the 51st division had 1,627 officers, soldiers, and labourers while the 58th division had 1,142 officers, soldiers, and labourers. Including stragglers that would break out of the city in 1938, the army accommodated a total of 5,000 troops. The 51st division had its own battle report, with 4,070 killed and 3,785 wounded.

6. 78th Corps (36th division) : the 78th Corps actually had a detailed battle report  in 1937. According to the report on 30th December 1937, the 78th corps suffered 228 killed, 285 wounded, and 6,673 missing in Nanjing (most of the killed or wounded is from the 2nd supplementary regiment under the 78th corps in the battle of Dahu Mountain), with 4,937 survivors. Interestingly, in the statistical table of the 78th army for the Shanghai-Nanjing Campaign, the corps had 5,964 missing in 1937, so presumably many soldiers managed to break out from Nanjing in 1938.

7. Guangdong Army (66th and 83rd corps) : was the only unit (excluding the 156th division of the 83rd corps which were reassigned to assist the 88th division in the Guanghua Gate and chose to try to cross the river alongside most of the Central Army) to follow Tang Shengzhi's original retreat plan and tried to break out through the Taiping Gate (joined by the 3rd brigade of the Training Corps). Unfortunately, they were dispersed after making contact with Japanese troops and a large portion were lost, with the Japanese army claiming 7,200 prisoners while only suffering 60 combat deaths. By the 31st of December, the two corps had a total of about 3,000 troops (including more than 1,300 from the 66th corps).

8. Training Corps : When the retreat order was given, only a portion of the 1st and 2nd brigades received the order, with the rest continuing to fight until the 13th of December. Those who received the order tried to cross the Yangtze river through the Yijiang Gate along with most of the Central Army, but was fired upon by machine guns from a battalion of the 36th division which had not known about the retreat order and still followed orders to shoot anyone trying to escape. During the chaos, the commander of the 2nd regiment Xie Chengrui was trampled to death. When they tried to cross the river, the Eleventh Fleet of the IJN arrived and fired upon the men in the water. At the same time, two regiments of the 16th division also fired upon the retreating soldiers, resulting in lots of losses (the IJA and IJN claimed to have killed a total of 18,000 soldiers trying to cross the river). The deputy commander of the Training Corps mentioned in his memoir that there were more than 4,000 survivors from the Training Corps, while other sources put the number of survivors at only 1,000 (the 1st brigade suffered the most losses as the main force did not know about the retreat order).

9. 103rd division of the Guizhou Army and the 112th division of the Northeast Army : the 103rd division had only 500 soldiers who managed to cross the river while the 112th division had only 60 (the division with the highest casualty rate).

10. Gendarmerie Military Police : had a total of 5,452 troops, of whom 794 were killed, 56 were wounded, 2,184 went missing, and 2,418 escaped.

11. Regular Police : had 6,000 troops, of which 840 escaped and the rest presumed dead.

12. Tank Corps : all tanks destroyed or captured, most of the personnel killed or went missing.

13. Yangtze River Fortress (including crew members of the Hai Qi cruiser) : two-thirds of the troops missing, with only 50 rifles recovered. Cent58 (talk) 14:20, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

After the war, the Gendarmerie applied pensions for 3,097 of its men killed and 14 badly wounded in Nanjing. Cent58 (talk) 14:44, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

The battle for the Baoshan city itself is just on the 6th of September. From the 4th until the 5th of September, the 68th infantry regiment of the IJA 3rd division was fighting against the NRA 6th division and Independent 37th brigade at villages outside Baoshan (assisted by the Amaya detachment of the 11th division on the 5th of September). Yao Ziqing's battalion inside Baoshan did suffer losses in these two days, but those were from artillery and air strikes in preparation for the assault once the flanks were secured. It was only on the 6th of September after forcing all NRA forces at the peripherals of the city to retreat that the 68th infantry regiment stormed the city using the 1st battalion supported by artillery while tanks blocked the city gates. Yao Ziqing's battalion did not engage with Japanese infantry on the 4th and 5th of September. Cent58 (talk) 13:07, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

appreciate the help and edits @Cent58. a final question, what is (in your opinion) the most authoritative death toll of the second sino-japanese war overall (military and civilian)? i'm inclined to believe 12,000,000 Chinese civilians and 3,000,000 soldiers died, while 500,000 Japanese soldiers and 80,000 civilians (Manchuria) died, but i'd love your perspective. Wahreit (talk) 14:36, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

The Japanese Demobilization Bureau on 1977 reported 465.700 deaths in China. This is an increase from the 1964 report which put deaths at 455.700. The reason for the increase is partly because the 1977 report include Japanese civilians in China, while the 1964 one only included deaths in the Japanese armed forces (including from the Navy). Additionally, there were 245,400 deaths of Japanese soldiers and civilians in Northeast China (including Manchuria) which were considered as separate from the rest of China. This number includes deaths in the battle of Khalkhin Gol and most of the deaths were after the war. So total deaths of Japanese soldiers and civilians in China is at around 700,000.

By my own estimate, there is around 2 million combat deaths and presumed dead after being reported missing for the National Revolutionary Army and other units aligned with the Nationalists (including military police units, air defense personnel, security forces, guerilla columns, and civilian volunteers such as local militias and self-defense units).  There were also non-combat deaths, which is harder to estimate. Using two methods (one from finding the ratio of desertions, dismissals, and deaths from illnesses to estimate how many among the 10,322,934 non-combat losses were deaths from illnesses and another from using some units’ monthly report of deaths from illnesses to estimate it for the total army), I estimate non-combat deaths to range between 1 million and 3 million, with 2 million being the number I’m most comfortable with.

Additionally, there are people who died in the conscription system in the forced marches before they could be recruited into the army. There is no complete statistics, but the Chinese Red Cross estimated there were 14 million deaths. This number seems to be too high and is also the same number of people conscripted into the army during the war, but even more conservative estimates put the total deaths at over 1 million.

The Eighth Route Army, New Fourth Army, and South China guerillas aligned with the CPC suffered 160,603 killed, 290,467 wounded, 45,989 captured, and 87,208 missing from July 1937 until August 1945 according to postwar announcement, which should be relatively accurate since their armies do not have a problem of disorganization as the Nationalists. The Qiongya Column also had 681 killed, 676 wounded, and 9 captured fighting against the Japanese armed forces though no records on casualties fighting the puppet army. The Northeast Anti-Japanese Allied Forces had less than 9,000 KIAs from 1932 until 1941 fighting against Japanese and puppet troops. I believe that the above number of losses for the Eighth Route Army and New Fourth Army only included the losses of the regular soldiers of the army, and do not include militias and counties’ self-defense teams under the two armies.

The statistics of deaths from the Nationalist and Communist armies only include losses fighting the Japanese armed forces and puppet soldiers, and do not include the losses fighting each other or against local bandits. The New Fourth Army alone claimed to have fought against ‘stubborn’ troops 3,212 times from March 1940 until June 1945 (excluding November and December 1940 and also not including the New Fourth Army incident in January 1941) and suffered 30,544 casualties while claiming to have 'annihilated' 143,320 Nationalist soldiers. The Eighth Route Army and the South China guerillas also had a lot of fighting against 'stubborn' troops and while the Qiongya Column and the Wang Huan’s Nationalist guerilla unit in Hainan initially had good cooperation, by 1940 the relationship had deteriorated to the point of fighting each other until the Nationalist unit had to evacuate from Hainan. The Qiongya Column recorded fighting against 'stubborn' troops 724 times (compared to 2,089 times against the Japanese armed forces and 140 times against puppet troops) and claimed to have killed 2,047 'stubborn' troops, wounded 1,953, and captured 607 while suffering 686 killed, 1,016 wounded, and 1 captured. So total casualties in these frictions should be in the hundreds of thousands.

The losses of the puppet army are unknown. Neither the Japanese nor the puppet government keep a detailed report of losses of the army. The only source we can use is the Nationalist and Communist claims, which are not reliable.

During the Chinese Civil War both the Nationalists and Communists investigated the number of civilian casualties from areas under their control. The Nationalists put their civilian losses at 4,397,504 killed, 4,737,065 wounded, and 2,441,885 missing. The Communists put their civilian losses at 3,176,123 killed, 2,963,582 wounded, and 2,760,227 captured. The total losses combining both reports is 7,573,627 killed, 7,700,647 wounded, and 5,202,112 missing or captured. Since this not a unified statistics it is not one hundred percent reliable, there might be some overlap but there might also be some unreported casualties as many areas were captured or lost in the civil war while they were still counting the losses.

There is also the estimate of casualties by historian Bian Xiuyue for the total losses of China. From his study (subtracting his estimate of casualties of the Nationalist Army, Communist Army, various ministries under the Nationalist government, puppet soldiers, Taiwanese soldiers, and conscripts), there were a total of 14,485,541 direct civilian deaths (including 253,000 overseas Chinese), 3 million indirect civilian deaths (Henan famine), and 18,882 missing (not including those who are confirmed to have been captured). He himself noted that his estimate came from various different sources so the number might not add up. Cent58 (talk) 13:04, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

I think by the end of 1938 alone Japanese combat casualties exceeded 400,000 and approached 500,000. They suffered near 200,000 combat casualties by the end of 1937 alone (100,000 in shanghai alone)

and in 1938: probably 70,000 in xuzhou and 140,000 in wuhan.

and chinese combat casualties could amount to 1 million by 1938.

At the end of the day, Japans superior medical support helped recover their wounded from dying. But weren't most japanese civilians safe from any sort of violence during the war in china. the 700,000 japanese soldiers killed in action seems more believable. Vantage153 (talk) 07:48, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

on the chinese wikipedia for the war of resistance also has this paragraph: 另根据日本战后研究，在华日军作战阵亡或因重伤残废无法再度返回战场：1937年至少5.1万人，1938年至少8.9万人，1939年至少8.2万人，1940年至少4.2万人，1941年至少4.1万。

added them together the KIA would be 306,000 in the first 4 years, according to postwar japanese research. but of course, the second sino japanese war is a very vague topic in general. i just hope that more and more information can get revealed. Vantage153 (talk) 08:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

According to the Official Gazette, there were 34,131 deaths (including 31,364 combat deaths) in the IJA and Kwantung Army in China and Manchuria and more than 800 combat deaths in the IJN in 1937. In 1938, there were 45,754 deaths (including 34,127 combat deaths) for the IJA and Kwantung Army. In 1939, there were 30,717 deaths (including 20,365 combat deaths) from the IJA and Kwantung Army (excluding from the battle of Khalkhin Gol). There might be some missing data (especially in 1939) but it is a very reliable statistics for Japanese army losses in these three years.

The North China Front Army and Central China Expeditionary Force had nearly 7,000 combat deaths from 26 January until 6 June 1938, so total combat casualties should be closer to 30,000. 140,000 casualties in the battle of Wuhan might be true if it includes non-combat casualties. The 11th army and 2nd army of the IJA had about 16,000 deaths during the battle of Wuhan, of which about 75% are combat deaths. Total combat casualties should be at around 40,000-50,000.

According to the Nationalist post-war investigation of their army's losses, the NRA suffered 881,349 casualties in 1937 and 517,121 casualties in 1938. While the former included losses from the invasion of Manchuria, 1932 battle of Shanghai, and defense of the Great Wall, the two statistics do not include losses in guerilla fighting, which by my estimate could reach 100,000 or more. Including the losses of the Eighth Route Army and New Fourth Army, the total casualties of the Chinese armed forces might be as high as 1.5 million by the end of 1938.

A large portion of the 245,400 Japanese who died in Northeast China are civilians. After the invasion of Manchuria by the Red Army, many Japanese civilians were also sent to Siberia with Kwantung Army POWs. Only about 60,000 of the deaths in Northeast China were soldiers, most of the rest were civilians who died in Soviet camps after the war. If we're strictly speaking combat deaths (excluding deaths from illnesses, accidents, and other non-battlefield related causes and excluding deaths after the war), about 250,000-300,000 Japanese soldiers were killed in action in China.

That text states that those were soldiers who were killed in action, crippled, or severely wounded enough that they could not return to the battlefield. Those are not just combat deaths. Cent58 (talk) 11:01, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

@Krips15 Figure is up here Cent58 (talk) 10:44, 19 January 2026 (UTC)

The figures 51k in 1937, 89k in 1938, 82k in 1939, 42k in 1940 and 41k in 1941 are still accurate for KIA, crippled, and severely wounded added together right? Krips15 (talk) 16:24, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

it does say that figure comes from Japanese post war research right? so it should hold value to it? Krips15 (talk) 16:31, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

The author of the cited book claim to have sourced his information from Japanese historical materials though I could not verify the authenticity of these specific figures. Cent58 (talk) 03:14, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

Also During the Battle of Wuhan 6th Division's casualties reported from August to October was 9585 not counting earlier from June to July?

And what about 9th Division's casualties, was the reported 3997 casualties also like the 6th divisions? only reported from eg August to October and not covering their casualties reported in the entire duration of the campaign?

I don't know the record for 27th Division or Taiwan Mixed Brigade Krips15 (talk) 19:23, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

9,585 is the casualties of the 6th Division in 1937 and 1938. No Japanese division were reported to have suffered that many combat casualties in the battle of Wuhan, not even the 106th Division. The reported casualties of the 9th Division covered the whole battle of Wuhan. The division participated in the battle of Wuhan in August so it's casualties in June and July (primarily against the Third War Zone) were not included. The 27th Division suffered 708 killed and 2,034 wounded and the Hada Task Force suffered 733 killed and 2,322 wounded in the battle of Wuhan. Cent58 (talk) 03:44, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

@Cent58 Thank you for the detailed breakdown. Looking forward to editing these pages with you! Wahreit (talk) 23:34, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

@Vantage153 based on my readings of western sources, the Japanese suffered over 100,000 combat casualties in 1937 (Paine) with 60,000-70,000 lost in shanghai, of which over 18,000 were KIA. the Japanese lost some 20,000 KIA in the Xuzhou Campaign including 8,000 dead at Taierzhuang, and anywhere between 35,000 (Richard Frank, who cites one of the Japanese scholars in Battle of China) and 100,000 (Williamson & Levine) combat casualties in the Wuhan Campaign.

the Chinese Army suffered 367,000 combat casualties in 1937 (Fenby) mainly in the Shanghai-Nanjing and Taiyuan campaigns, and another 735,000 in 1938 (also Fenby), mainly in the Xuzhou and Wuhan campaigns. it is probable that chinese combat casualties exceeded 1 million by the end of 1938, of which the vast majority were Nationalists.

for total Japanese deaths, the most common figures in Western literature are 450,000-480,000 Japanese KIA, and twice that number wounded at around 920,000. another figure I've seen is 388,000 Japanese KIA of which 185,000 were killed before Pearl Harbor, and I've also seen that 700,000 number thrown around.

for Chinese casualties, i see the number 3,000,000 thrown around a lot, but many sources differ if this represents total casualties or just deaths. what seems the most reliable is 1.3M-1.5M Nationalist KIA, 1.M Nationalist wounded, and another 1M-2M Nationalist soldiers dead from disease, forced conscription, and wounds. Communist casualties do not exceed 500,000 in any numbers I see, of which the death toll was 144,000 KIA by 1944.

@Cent58 any of your thoughts are appreciated. also, would you mind dropping these figures if you're interested?

1. the most reliable size of the Nanjing Capital Garrison as of the 1937 Battle. Sun Zhawei's estimate of 150,000 seems way to high, and im more inclined to lean for askew's estimate of 75,000-80,000, although Hata's figure of 100,000 is also plausible. ill update the nanjing battle page asap.

2. battle casualties for the X Corps against the 23rd Group Army in late November around Lake Tai.

3. battle casualties of the SEF against the Jiangyin River Garrison in late November, and the 74th Corps at Chunhua in early December.

4. i know this one is contentious, but in your opinion what is the most verifiable death toll of the Nanjing Massacre? i personally find wakabayashi's book to be the most fair (50,000 in the city walls in December, 100,000+ for the city and surrounding countryside for four months), but i'd like your thoughts.

Thanks again for the hard work! Wahreit (talk) 23:52, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Let's breakdown each unit in the battle of Nanjing, starting from the Central Army. Before the battle of Nanjing, the Ministry of Military and Political Affairs planned to transfer 44 supplementary battalions, 4 supplementary regiments, and 1 Jiangxi security regiment totaling 40,200 men to bring the Central Army units up to strength.

1. According to the supplementary plan, the 36th division was expected to receive 5,200 troops. According to its own detailed battle report, the 78th Corps (36th division) had 5,071 troops after reaching Nanjing by November 20. The Corps received 1,400 troops right after arriving at the city and then received an additional 5,130 troops (and perhaps some more unreported additions), bringing the Corps up to 11,987 troops.
2. According to the supplementary plan, the 88th division was expected to receive 6,300 troops. However, according to Gu Zhutong's telegram on 2 February 1938, division commander Sun Yuanliang reported that his division had 12,000 troops participating in the battle, of which 8,000 were new recruits.
3. The 87th division was also supposed to receive the same amount of new recruits as the 88th division, which would put its strength at over 10,000 troops. The division should however have similar strength as the 36th and 88th divisions of 12,000 troops.
4. The Training Corps and 74th Corps were supposed to receive 22,400 troops. The 74th Corps had nearly 20,000 troops at the start of the war and according to various battle reports by my count suffered as many as 10,000 casualties. The corps received recruits from a security regiment plus another 1,000 troops from the 140th division during the battle. The Training Corps had 13,517 troops in 3 infantry regiments before the war. The 2nd infantry regiment fought in Shanghai at the start of the war followed by the 1st and 3rd infantry regiments in early November. During the battle the Training Corps suffered 5,000 casualties (including more than 3,000 casualties from the two newly-arrived regiments during the battle along the Suzhou River). Before the battle of Nanjing, the Training Corps was upgraded from 3 infantry regiments to 9 infantry regiments (2 of the regiments were sent to receive recruits in Hunan and Jiangxi so only 7 infantry regiments participated in the battle of Nanjing), 1 cavalry regiment, 1 artillery regiment, 1 engineer regiment, 1 baggage regiment, and 1 special forces battalion. The total strength of the two units after receiving the new recruits should at around 39,000 troops.

The Central Army should have been supplemented to full strength before the start of the battle, so total strength for the 5 divisions and Training Corps is at around 75,000. For the rest of the units :

1. 66th Corps : the 159th and 160th divisions had more than 9,000 troops each. During the 66th Corps' participation in the battles for Liujiahang and Gujiazhai from 17 September until 1 October 1937, the 159th division suffered 5,164 casualties, the 160th division suffered 1,954 casualties, the training brigade of the Corps suffered 3,003 casualties, and the artillery and engineer battalions of the Corps suffered 29 casualties. The training brigade suffered too many casualties and the survivors were integrated into the 160th division. In October, the 159th and 160th divisions took part in the battle for Guangfu and suffered heavy casualties. On October 29, the corps received 3,234 troops from six supplementary battalions which should be to cover the losses in the battle for Guangfu. In November, the two divisions retreat from the Shanghai battlefield. At the night of November 11, the 13th regiment of the IJA 6th division block the retreat path of the 160th division. Due to poor visibility, the division marched right into the firing line of the Japanese unit and suffered heavy casualties. The 159th division also suffered hundreds of casualties during the retreat. Overall, total casualties of the 159th division is estimated at more than 6,000, and the 160th division should have suffered similar number of casualties. The total strength of the 66th corps in the battle for Nanjing is estimated to be at approximately 13,000.
2. The 154th division participated at the end of the battle of Shanghai, and the 156th division only participated in the retreat phase. There is not much information regarding the total strength of the 83rd Corps before the battle of Shanghai and what the losses were before Nanjing. Theoretically, the divisions of the 83rd corps should have similar strength with the divisions of the 66th corps which would put total strength of the 83rd corps at approximately 20,000. Yu Hanmou reported on 12th March 1938 that the two corps had a shortfall of more than 30,000 troops from their establishment strength. By this point the 66th corps had nearly 8,000 troops and the 83rd corps had at least 3,000 troops, so the 20,000 troops from the 83rd corps should be reliable. The casualties of the 83rd corps during the retreat should not be that great. I would put the strength of the 83rd corps in the battle of Nanjing at approximately 15,000 troops.
3. The 103rd and 112th divisions took part in the battle of Jiangyin. The 103rd division lost more than half of its men during the battle. By the time the division reached Nanjing, there were only 1,000 troops left. According to its own detailed battle report, the 112th division suffered more than 700 casualties. According to the political department of the division, the unit had more 5,000 troops before the battle. According to brigade commander Wan Yi, there were still more than 4,000 troops after reaching Nanjing. The total number for the two divisions is more than 5,000.
4. The 2nd army corps (41st and 48th divisions) was the only army unit that had not taken part in any fighting and was still at its full strength of 18,000 at the start of the battle.
5. The Nanjing Gendarmerie had 5,452 men and there were also more than 6,000 regular police who participated in the battle.
6. The Zhenjiang and Jiangning Fortresses had a total of more than 2,000 troops (including a portion of the 3rd and 4th security regiments of Jiangsu Province, a garrison battalion, a battalion of the 8th artillery regiment, a battalion of the 10th artillery regiment, an anti-air team, a communications battalion, and a special forces platoon).
7. The 3rd (tank) company of the Armored Corps had nearly 100 troops.
8. There was also a guard battalion from the Sun Yat-sen Mausoleum which might have taken part in the fighting.

In total, by my estimate there were approximately 140,000 troops participating in the defense of Nanjing. Cent58 (talk) 07:58, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

From 27 until 30 November, about 70 soldiers of the X Corps were killed in action fighting the 23rd Army Group in the battle of Lake Tai. The 18th divisions suffered an additional 100 casualties (including 30 killed) fighting the 23rd Army Group from 4 until 6 December.

During the battle of Jiangyin from 26 November until 3 December, 129 soldiers of the 13th division was killed in action (including 32 who were killed by bombs from friendly aircraft on December 2 as the bombers did not know the fort had been captured by then).

The 36th infantry regiment of the 9th division was the unit which fought against the 51st division in Chunhua Town. According to its battle history, the regiment suffered 257 killed and 546 wounded in the battle of Nanjing, during which the regiment fought at Chunhua Town and Guanghua Gate. Based on the battle descriptions, the unit might have suffered more casualties at Guanghua Gate. Moreover, in the battle of Guanghua Gate a battalion commander was killed while in Chunhua Town a company commander was killed.

I estimate massacre victims among POWs to be at around 30,000-50,000 based on Chinese and Japanese materials (the lower figure is assuming many of the Chinese soldiers killed in Japanese reports are civilians). Unfortunately, civilian losses are harder to estimate as the IJA and IJN mostly don't record them, and the Chinese claims have a lot of issues, so I'll have to defer to Wakabayashi's study for that. Cent58 (talk) 08:28, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

The 367,362 casualties reported by the Ministry of Military and Political Affairs is a very dubious figure considered how intense 1937 was. Some generals in their memoirs claim that this number is only until the end of the battle of Shanghai and does not included losses in Nanjing. In North China, there was the the battle of Beiping-Tianjin, with about 15,000 casualties, Operation Chahar, with 50,269 casualties, battle of Taiyuan, with 129,737 casualties, and the Beiping-Hankou and the Tianjin-Pukou Railway Operations, both totaling more than 75,000 casualties. Including the battles in Central China, the total casualties might be as many as twice as the original report. Additionally, more than 10,000 security and army personnel surrendered to the Japanese Army in Beiping and Tianjin that were not included in the 15,000 casualties.

The other years with doubtful casualties are the 673,368 casualties (much more than expected) in 1940, and 210,734 (too few) in 1944.

The 446,740 casualties in the 'Other Communist estimates' section in the Second Sino-Japanese War page is the casualties from July 1937 until March 1945 (excluding losses of the South China guerillas before 1943). Moreover, as the statistical table of Rummel's book noted, this is only the number of killed or wounded. Including the number of missing and captured until August 1945, the total casualties is 584,267 like in the 'Official Communist data'. If the casualties in September and October 1945 fighting the Japanese army is included, the total casualties is 610,588. Cent58 (talk) 09:30, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

in Xuzhou NRA casualties was 219,678 killed, wounded, or missing, you guys have the source for the figures of how many were killed, and how many were wounded? etc Krips15 (talk) 06:54, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

85,324 killed, 106,387 wounded, and 27,968 missing. This statistic of casualties however does not necessarily represent the actual losses of each participating units. Some problem I've seen for example are :

1. Adding up the casualties of each unit in the statistical table, it seems that as 10,000 of the reported missing were put as wounded in the final figure.
2. Most of the units did not leave behind detailed battle reports and a lot of the units' strength and casualties were approximate figures. For example, the 132nd and 140th Divisions each suffered 2,030 killed, 2,070 wounded, and 2,040 missing out of 9,007 troops. The 139th Division suffered 4,060 killed, 4,140 wounded, and 4,080 missing out of 9,007 troops, etc
3. Some of the units' casualties were based on only a portion of the unit. For example, the 20th Corps consisted of four divisions, of which only the 89th Division had a known detailed battle report at that time. The casualties of the corps were put as four times the casualties of the 89th Division. Similarly, only the detailed battle report of the 199th Division among the three divisions of the 26th Group Army was available. The casualties of the group army included is the casualties of the 199th Division times three.
4. Included in the statistics were the casualties of the 3rd Group Army in the Yellow River crossing operation in late December 1937 and the casualties of the 27th Group Army in the battle at Chao County and Huaining in June 1938.
5. The casualties of the 40th Army in the battle of Pei County in May 1938 were not included even though the statistic of its casualties was known.
6. The casualties of various peace preservation and guerilla units were not included.

Cent58 (talk) 08:05, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

so if the killed for IJA in Xuzhou was over 20,000 and NRA had over 85,324 killed that means the KIA ratio was over 1:4.

Is there a figure for Japanese wounded in Xuzhou if KIA was 20,000? Krips15 (talk) 08:40, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

20,000 is not based on any Japanese source. The number of Japanese troops of the Second Army and the Central China Expeditionary Force killed in action or died from combat wounds in the battle of Xuzhou in a broad sense (from the battle of the Huai River on January 26 to the end of the pursuit from Xuzhou on June 5) is approximately one-third that figure. The number of wounded is estimated at three times the number of killed, so an estimated total of 25,000 casualties. Cent58 (talk) 09:01, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

I checked over the Chinese Wikipedia for the battle of Xuzhou,

it said that the North China Area Army took some 35,086 casualties from February to May, most of them of course were from the battle of Xuzhou.

and the Central China Expeditionary Force which was replenished its casualties from Shanghai and Nanjing in January:

have reported in May 31st that

3rd Division was understaffed by 4081 personnel,

6th Division understaffed by 1495 personnel,

9th Division understaffed by 3621 personnel,

101st Division understaffed by 1314 personnel and

13th division understaffed by 1923 personnel.

don't know if this means that the understaffed would mean those personnel were KIA or severely wounded.

It ends by saying Japanese casualties were likely well over tens of thousands.

(rough translation)

日军在徐州会战中没有达到歼灭国军主力进而迫使国民政府投降的目的，自身亦受到较大伤亡，日军华北方面军在1938年2月至5月伤亡达35,086人，绝大部分是在徐州会战中伤亡的；日军华中派遣军伤亡根据日军在5月31日制作的统计图表，日军华中派遣军下辖之第3师团定员不足额4,081人、第6师团定员不足额1,495人、第9师团定员不足额3,621人、第101师团定员不足额1,314人、第13师团定员不足额1,923人，考量到华中派遣军下辖单位在1月中旬发起攻击前就已经接收大量补充人员补满先前在淞沪战役期间阵亡与伤重后送造成的缺额（轻伤现地住院者应不计算在内），这很显然是在徐州会战期间战死与重伤后送回国所造成的大量缺额（轻伤现地住院者应不计算在内），若再考量日军在徐州会战期间所接受的人员补充，华中派遣军于徐州会战所承受的伤亡必然十分惨重。将日军华北方面军与华中派遣军伤亡合计起来，整个徐州会战中日军死伤人数肯定是数以万计。 Krips15 (talk) 09:49, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

You're forgetting about the Henan battlefield in which the 14th division alone suffered 6,400 casualties. The Shanxi battlefield was also very active during this period, with 700 troops of the North China Area Army killed or died from combat wounds in February alone. From March to June the 20th Division suffered 3,615 combat casualties and the 109th Division also suffered considerable casualties during this period. Cent58 (talk) 11:06, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

Yes, thats why I said *most of them likely from xuzhou, I know that there was fighting elsewhere in North China, not just in Xuzhou Krips15 (talk) 11:24, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

Most of the above-mentioned Japanese divisions had suffered heavy casualties in 1937 and were not guaranteed to have been fully replenished. Even the 5th and 10th Divisions which were front-line combat units in the battle of Xuzhou were replenished to 90% of their authorized strength. The 3rd, 6th, and 101st Divisions were not the main participating troops of the Central China Expeditionary Force for the battle of Xuzhou and each lost than 100 troops killed in action. Cent58 (talk) 11:32, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

thanks for clarification Krips15 (talk) 12:15, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

But why would Frank Dorn say in 1974 that Japanese KIA for Xuzhou was over 20,000. what is his reasoning for it? Krips15 (talk) 17:14, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

is Frank Dorn generally a respected military historian? Krips15 (talk) 17:18, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

Frank Dorn was an American military officer stationed in China at the time. His source for Japanese losses were not based on Japanese data but likely came from Chinese claims. In fact the 20,000 Japanese troops killed that he claimed were only for the Japanese campaign towards Xuzhou starting from mid-April. He also claimed that there were 16,000 bodies abandoned by the Japanese Army in Taierzhuang, so his figure for Japanese losses is not trustworthy. Cent58 (talk) 09:13, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

is the record of captured Japanese equipment by the CNRA after the victory of Taierzhuang also accurate, like ~10,000 rifles, and the captured machine guns, artillery and tanks accurate? Krips15 (talk) 11:26, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

No, that's a propaganda claim used to boost the 'Great Victory of Taierzhuang'. According to 'History of the Anti-Japanese War', the 20th Corps reported the capture of 378 rifles and machine guns and 5 grenade dischargers and the 2nd Group Army only reported the capture of 'a large of number of weapons, equipment, and materials'. Cent58 (talk) 12:28, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

What of the 9th and 13th casualties in Xuzhou,

13th Division was the one which participated in the attack on Huai River in the early stages Krips15 (talk) 17:27, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

From the start of the battle of Huai River to the Xuzhou offensive, the 9th and 13th Divisions lost a total of approximately 1,300 troops killed in action or died from combat wounds. Cent58 (talk) 09:27, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

Also during the year 1940, what was the reasoning for it being the "NRA's bloodiest year" with over 300,000 being reported as KIA?

I remember you saying that that number for 1940 is too unrealistically overreported Krips15 (talk) 11:04, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

would the 6044 additional soldiers the 3rd Division recieved in July 1940 after Zaoyi give an rough estimate to the exact Killed in Action the 3rd Division took in that battle? would that mean majority of those supplementary troops it received be for KIA casualties? Krips15 (talk) 11:18, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

No Japanese division lost that much troops in a single battle for the entire Second Sino-Japanese War. The 3rd Division suffered approximately 500 killed in action or died from combat wounds in the battle of Zaoyang-Yichang from May 1 to July 10, 1940. Cent58 (talk) 13:43, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

Considering that the statistics of casualties were compiled year by year, I assume that the casualties of the whole 1939 Winter Offensive were included in the 1940 year. 1940 was a bloody year for the Chinese Army, but its casualties should not exceeded casualties in 1937, 1938, or 1939. Cent58 (talk) 13:39, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

Also if you're comparing the number of troops killed in action, the missing should also be included at least partly. While some might have deserted, many more were probably killed or captured. The 27th Group Army for example believed that three-fourth of its missing troops were killed in action, which were not factored in in the final calculus. Cent58 (talk) 09:04, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

Hello, I appreciate the new information you've added to many articles. However as a user outside of China I'm unable to access Zhihu. If it's not too much work, could you please change the links to redirect to archived versions of the pages that users outsider of China can easily access? I'm particularly interested in reading the articles on the Shanghai losses.

Thank you!

Adachi1939 (talk) 22:09, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Sorry! I'll work on it though the archiving will take a while. I'll start on the Zhihu articles for the battle of Shanghai first. Cent58 (talk) 03:49, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. Keep up the great work with your edits! Adachi1939 (talk) 04:23, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

@Adachi1939 I tried using the Wayback Machine to archive the Zhihu articles but it seems like the archived versions still have the same issue as if you are an unregistered user in Zhihu. While there are a few articles I've found in other websites that I believe are accessible without logging in, for the most part you'll have to register a Zhihu account with your phone number to access the full articles unfortunately. Cent58 (talk) 05:46, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Alright, no worries, I appreciate you trying. I pestered one of my Chinese friends to screenshot one of the articles on Shanghai for me. Lots of interesting stuff! It's impressive to see how much further ahead research on the Second Sino-Japanese is outside of the anglo-sphere. Adachi1939 (talk) 05:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

No problem! Cent58 (talk) 08:37, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

I see you edited alot about the second sino japanese war, could we discuss battles of northern and eastern henan and south guangxi.

On the wikipedia page of Battle of South Guangxi, Japanese casualties say they suffered 8100 casualties, i think that number only includes the casualties they suffered in kunlun pass. The battle of binyang that happened after kunlun pass was brief, its unrealistic that the casualties were:

576 officers and 23,582 soldiers killed

932 officers and 29,630 soldiers wounded

203 officers and 9,366 soldiers missing

For Northern and Eastern Henan you listed Chinese casualties at

Chinese claim :

979 officers and 24,275 soldiers killed

1,453 officers and 24,284 soldiers wounded

451 officers and 10,785 soldiers missing

when i think the only major battle that happened was at lanfeng, Zhihu says Japan suffered 6400 casualties but i think multiple regiments of the 14th division faced annihilation so it should be close to 10,000.

How reliable is zhihu really, they mainly use japanese sources.

If you can, could you break down these battles? Vantage153 (talk) 07:25, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

The Chinese casualties in both battles are from the History of the Anti-Japanese War, one of the most authoritative source for losses of the National Revolutionary Army in specific battles.

The battle of South Guangxi can be split into three phases. The first phase was the 5th division's landing at Qinzhou Bay on November 15 until the fall of Kunlun Pass on December 4. The 5th division was able to quickly rout the new 19th division of the 46th Corps in Qinzhou Bay, the 135th division of the 31st Corps and 170th division of the 46th Corps in Nanning, and the 200th division of the newly-arrived Fifth Corps at Ertang with light losses while inflicting heavy losses on the defenders. The 31st Corps alone suffered more than 6,600 casualties in 5 days. After the fall of Nanning on November 24, the IJA 5th division captured Gaofengai on December 1, defeated a counterattack by the 188th and 200th divisions on December 2, and captured Kunlun Pass on December 4. The 200th division had already suffered about 2,000 casualties up to this point.

The second phase of the battle is the counterattack to retake Kunlun Pass. The Chinese High Command successively sent in the 36th, 66th, and 99th Corps and the rest of the Fifth Corps. The Fifth Corps itself was tasked in taking back Kunlun Pass while the 66th and 99th Corps would block reinforcements to the IJA 21st brigade in Kunlun Pass. The 31st and 46th Corps would also fight against the 9th brigade of the 5th division at Gaofengai to contain the brigade, during which the 31st Corps suffered nearly 2,000 casualties. Starting from 17 December, the Fifth Corps attacked the position of the brigade until the full retreat of the Japanese unit from the pass on 31 December. During the fighting the brigade commander Masao Nakamura was killed in action. On December 2 the 5th and 66th Corps attacked Jiutang and Batang but could not break-through after a week of fighting, resulting in a stalemate. On 10 January 1940 the 5th Corps was replaced by the 36th Corps and withdrawn for rest, having reported 17,691 casualties.

The last phase of the battle is the Binyang operation. In early and mid January 1940 both sides sent in more units to Southern Guangxi. The IJA 18th division and Taiwan Mixed Brigade landed at Qinzhou Bay to support the battle. The Chinese also sent in the 2nd, 6th, and 64th corps and the new 33rd division to the Southern Guangxi frontline. On 28 January, the 9th brigade, 18th division, and Taiwan Mixed Brigade started the operation, attacking Kunlun Pass defended by the 36th and 99th Corps under supporting artillery fire and aircraft. The Guilin headquarters urgently sent the 46th, 64th, and 66th Corps to counterattack the Japanese army, but they were quickly defeated and the five corps retreated in panic. The Japanese army successively took Binyang, Shanglin, Gantang, Wuming, and Kunlun Pass. By February 8, the Japanese army withdrew to Nanning, having completed their objective of consolidating their position in Nanning. While this was a short offensive, according to History of the Anti-Japanese War, the Chinese army suffered more than 25,000 casualties in the battle of Binyang.

The 64,289 casualties reported by the Fourth Military Front is actually an incomplete statistics, as some units had not reported their casualties in certain battles. Additionally, the 5th Corps suffered 6,416 casualties during the battle of South Guangxi excluding the battle of Kunlun Pass, and this number was also not included in the statistics. Cent58 (talk) 12:20, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

For the battle of Northern and Eastern Henan, there are many other large-scale battles aside from the battle of Lanfeng.

Starting from the 11th of February 1938, the Japanese army launched a massive offensive against the 1st army group and new 6th division in Tangyin County. In the first two days, the Chinese army suffered more than 5,000 casualties. The 14th division pursued the retreating Chinese army for the next two weeks, inflicting further casualties. By 24 February, the 14th division had taken Sishui, Fengqiu, Jiyuan and Boai and forced the 1st army group and new 6th division to retreat to Shanxi. Due to the quick advance of the Japanese army, hundreds of Chinese soldiers drowned trying to cross to Xinhe River. After reaching Shanxi, the Chinese troops can only hastily build a defense line. From 25 February until 1 March, the 14th division occupied the Tianjing Pass, Zhoucun, Qinhe, and Yuanqu, successively defeating the 37th division, 91st division, and 53rd Corps. By the start of March, the 37th division and the 179th division of the 1st army group reported having a total of only 1,800 troops left.

In April 1938, the 166th division of the 91st Corps was ordered to retake Jiyuan. While they did recover the city after several offensives, they suffered more than 1,500 casualties. During the same period, the 132nd division of the 77th Corps also recovered Pinglu at a cost of more than 1,500 casualties.

In May 1938, the IJA 14th division crossed the Yellow River and marched to eastern Henan to block the First Military Front from assisting the Fifth Military Front in Xuzhou. The division attacked Heze on May 14 and took it in just 3 days. The 23rd division lost more than half of its troops and division commander Li Bifan died. The new 35th division also suffered casualties exceeding 50%. The 141st division of the 32nd Corps also tasked with defending the city suffered more than 2,000 casualties.

Xiao County was also attacked by the IJA 9th division on May 16. The 139th division defended the county for three days, before breaking out on May 18. The 21st division took in the remaining 1,000 soldiers of the division (According to history of the Anti-Japanese War, the 139th division suffered 850 killed, 609 wounded, and 925 missing in the defense of Xiao County). The 21st division suffered 1,461 casualties and the 180th division suffered hundreds of casualties in supporting operations for the defense.

After the battle of Lanfeng, the 14th division attacked Kaifeng on June 3. The 141st division and Tax Police Brigade blocked the Japanese division for two days and nights, but even had to withdraw due to casualties. The two defending units suffered more than 2,050 casualties in the battle.

Adding up to the various smaller battles from January until early June and the battle of Lanfeng, the casualties of the First Military Front already reached more than 60,000, so the casualty figure from the history of the Anti-Japanese War is not unrealistic Cent58 (talk) 13:17, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

In total for both battle of south guangxi and battle of northern and eastern henan how many japanese casualties did it cause? Vantage153 (talk) 13:21, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

The total number of combat deaths in the battle of Southern Guangxi should be at no more than 1,500 (the majority being from the IJA 5th division). The 6,400 casualty figure reported by headquarters of the 14th division as the casualties in the battle of Lanfeng should actually be the total casualties in the battle of Northern and Eastern Henan, as according to Official Gazette, there were a total of 903 combat deaths (including 112 who died of their wounds) during the battles of Lanfeng and Kafeng, which is much less than the more than 1,200 killed in the 6,400 casualty figure. The casualties of other IJA units in the campaign are unknown but should be far less than the 14th division. Cent58 (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

so in the first stage of Northern and Eastern Henan, was Song Zheyuan's army against the 14th division

and another battle was before lanfeng with Li Bifan's division defending Heze right?

in both instances do you think i can find the japanese casualties inflicted? Krips15 (talk) 16:23, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

and as well as Huang Jie's defence of Shangqiu against the 16th division and a 13th Kwantung mixed brigade. you know the casualties for both sides here? Krips15 (talk) 16:24, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

in general, could you give me a rundown of the entire first 2 years of the war in 1937-38 if you have the time.

Like list all the battles fought during the campaigns from Beiping-Tianjin, Chahar, Beiping-Hankou Raiway operation, Tianjin-Pukou Railway Operation, Taiyuan Campaign, Shanghai-Nanjing campaign in 1937, and the Xuzhou Campaign, Northern and Eastern Henan Campaign, Southern Shanxi Campaign, and Wuhan Campaign. and the casualties each side suffered. Krips15 (talk) 16:40, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

was a reason for Song Zheyuan's 1st army group collapsing during the battle in Northern Henan 1938 because of the high casualties they took in 1937? during their offensive operation on Daming? Krips15 (talk) 17:18, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

as well as their 59th corps and 68th corps being recalled from the army group. Krips15 (talk) 23:27, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

you think its also believable that the japanese casualty report in the battle of wuhan is unreliable since 30,000 japanese got annihilated at wanjialing alone, while they reported combat casualties to be much lower. Krips15 (talk) 01:57, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

1. The 14th division suffered nearly 1,000 casualties fighting along the Yellow River in February and March 1938. 45 troops of the division were killed in action in the battle of Heze.

2. The 16th division and 3rd independent mixed brigade suffered nearly 2,500 casualties in the final stage of the battle of Xuzhou, most of which were from fighting the 55th corps at Jinxiang and Yutai and fighting Huang Jie’s 8th corps at Dangshan and Shangqiu (in the battle of Weilou alone, the 3^rd independent mixed brigade suffered 503 casualties fighting the 304^th regiment of the 102^nd division of the 8^th corps which suffered more than 900 casualties).

3. The defeat of the 1st army group is not disastrous compared to other battles at that time. During the same period in Shanxi, the Japanese 20th and 108th divisions defeated 7 divisions of the Central Army (including Wei Lihuang’s own 14th corps), 4 divisions of the Shanxi-Suiyuan Army, and 2 divisions of the Sichuan Army, inflicting nearly 30,000 casualties on the Nationalist Chinese Army while suffering only 500 combat deaths. In Shandong, the Japanese 10th division repelled the counterattack from 5 divisions of the Shandong Army and 1 division of the Sichuan Army, inflicting nearly 11,000 casualties while suffering approximately 800 casualties. Most Chinese units which fought in 1937 had a sharp drop in combat effectiveness afterwards.

4. The ‘History of the Anti-Japanese War’ only claimed that five thousand Japanese soldiers were killed in Wanjialing. The Ninth War Zone reported to have killed or wounded more than twenty thousand Japanese soldiers in the whole Nanxun campaign from mid-September until mid-October 1938, which is less than the ’30,000 Japanese soldiers annihilated’ claim for just the battle of Wanjialing. Cent58 (talk) 07:20, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

for 3; I thought Wei Lihuang's army stopped the Japanese advance in Lingshi Pass until japan chose a flanking route to ultimately capture linfen-shanxi.

and the battle in Shandong, the counterattack by 6 divisions was after Han Fuju forced those units to abandon Jinan right? 2001:56A:FAB8:BC00:B158:D33C:D5E:DD88 (talk) 09:14, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

The counterattack done by the Shandong Army in Feb 1938 was called the Jining counterattack right? Some websites said Shandong Army's casualties were at 3 or 4 thousand. 2001:56A:FAB8:BC00:B158:D33C:D5E:DD88 (talk) 09:49, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

how many casualties exactly were caused on Song Zheyuan's army in that time? 2001:56A:FAB8:BC00:B158:D33C:D5E:DD88 (talk) 09:50, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

1. In the battle of Lingshi, the 78^th infantry regiment of the Japanese 20^th division quickly broke through the defence lines of the 15^th corps. The Chinese Army successively sent the 54^th, 83^rd, and 85^th divisions to assist the 15^th corps. However, their positions were soon breached one by one, with the advancing units of the 83^rd division quickly losing more than half of their troops after entering the battlefield. A single Japanese regiment was able to break through the defense lines of five Chinese Central Army divisions in three days. At the same time, the 80^th infantry regiment attacked the positions of the 10^th and 47^th divisions and, despite suffering considerable casualties in the Chinese counterattack, was quickly approaching from the east as the 78^th infantry regiment close in from the west. With a threat of encirclement from both sides, Wei Lihuang ordered his troops to retreat and Lingshi was occupied by the 20^th division.

2. There are controversies regarding Han Fuju’s decision but essentially yes. The target of the Shandong Army offensive was Jining city which fell in January 1938. Army group commander Sun Tongxuan reported on 6^th March 1938 the losses of his troops in the offensive as 5,905 killed, 3,345 wounded, and 95 missing. According to the ‘History of the Anti-Japanese War’, the Shandong Army suffered 9,620 killed, wounded, or missing in the offensive.

3. There’s no complete statistics for the losses of the 1^st army group in February 1938. Song Zheyuan reported on 4^th March 1938 the losses of his army group from February 11 until February 20 as more than 7,000 killed, wounded, or missing. After that, the 37^th division suffered more than 1,200 casualties at Fengmenkou and the 116th division of the 53rd corps suffered very heavy casualties at Qinhe. Cent58 (talk) 13:38, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

in your opinion what do you think could be the result for these bad performances in southern shanxi besides the firepower disparity. was the battle also characterized by IJA using mobility to concentrate superior numbers locally? Krips15 (talk) 15:39, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

The key factor is that the Japanese troops had advanced far quicker than the Chinese Army had anticipated and reached the battlefield while the various Chinese units were still in exchanging or handing over positions in accordance to their battle orders. They were unprepared for the sudden Japanese attacks and did not have enough time to build up strong defense lines. Additionally, the Chinese Army did not know the strength of the Japanese troops in front of them and did not want to counterattack the much smaller foe. The Chinese Army also invested its troops one after another where they were immediately engaged after entering the battlefield. The Chinese units failed to coordinate between each other, allowing the 78th infantry regiment to break through each defensive position and defeat the Chinese divisions one by one.

For the February offensives, the Chinese Army invested 9 divisions, 3 brigades, the Hebei People’s Army, and various guerilla units in Northern Henan, 14 divisions and the Fenyang security team in Southern Shanxi, and 6 divisions in Western Shandong. The Japanese army opposing them had the 14th division in Northern Henan, the 20th division and parts of the 108th and 109th divisions in Southern Shanxi, and the 10th division in Western Shandong.

The losses of the Chinese Army in the Pinghan Railway operation recorded in the ‘History of the Anti-Japanese War’ is very incomplete with less than half of the units actually reporting the number of troops invested and the number of casualties. Many Chinese units which suffered heavy casualties in the operation were not included in the statistics such as most of Song Zheyuan’s 1st army group, Wei Lihuang’s 14th army group, most of Sun Lianzhong’s 26th route army, Feng Qinzai’s 27th route army, Wu Keren’s 67th corps, Liu Ruming’s 68th corps, Tan Zixin’s 4th cavalry corps, and Bao Gang’s 46th independent brigade. The total casualties of the Chinese Army in the Pinghan and Jinpu railway operations should exceed 100,000. The Japanese Army lost nearly 4,000 troops in the two operations so total casualties should be closer to 15,000. Cent58 (talk) 06:39, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Japanese casualties at Pinghan and Jinpu railway added together is 15,000 in 1937?

Also, in the Jining-Wenshang campaign, regarding the performance of the 81st division of Sun Tongxuan's corps, was there a battle where they caused 700-800 casualties in exchange for 2000 casualties?

https://www.krzzjn.com/show-910-67006.html

and in the second battle of changsha, regarding battle of Chunhua Mountain, how many casualties did Japan take? 74th corps took some 14,000 in that battle and it was recorded that the 18th regiment lost 8 company commanders? is there an accurate count for the casualties the IJA 3rd, 6th and 4th divisions took in Chunhua mountain?

for the other NRA corps that participated in the second battle of Changsha (10th corps, 37th corps, 4th corps）you listed the casualties they took, is there also one for how many casualties they caused on the japanese in those battles?

You know could we countinue this conversation in a chatroom/messaging app? do you have a preferred messaging app to link up with? Krips15 (talk) 18:44, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

most of Song Zheyuan's casualties were in the later period of the Jinpu railway battle right? since Han Fuju refused to allow his units to cross over into Shandong. Krips15 (talk) 18:52, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

and also regarding the battle of Baoding along the Pinghan railway, it was fought by the 52nd corps right? did it cause around/over 5000 IJA casualties in that battle? the 52nd corps faced a situation where it was surrounded by 3 IJA divisions (6th, 14th, 20th) right? Krips15 (talk) 18:58, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

also in all those 3 fronts (Northern Henan, Shandong, Southern Shanxi) what was the strength comparison between both sides? 2001:56A:FAB8:BC00:B158:D33C:D5E:DD88 (talk) 02:17, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

in the jinpu and pinghan railway operations, if Nationalist casualties were at 75,000 in total, how many IJA casualties were inflicted? a number roughly around 20,000? 2001:56A:FAB8:BC00:B158:D33C:D5E:DD88 (talk) 02:20, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

was your reddit account banned? Krips15 (talk) 17:52, 2 January 2026 (UTC)

bro, 30k and 54k edits. How??? Wahreit (talk) 19:51, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

To be fair it took a week or more for each of the two edits. Most of the additions also came from two primary sources which detailed the whole battle from the perspective of both combatants. Cent58 (talk) 13:33, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

lol, time to bump my edit game up Wahreit (talk) 15:38, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

also @Cent58 would you happen to know the death toll of the jiujiang atrocities in summer of 1938 during the wuhan campaign? Wahreit (talk) 07:40, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

From the start of the battle of Wuhan until the fall of Jiujiang, a total of 23,537 civilians died in the Jiujiang area. However, a large portion of them died in bombings. The number of massacre victims are unknown. In total, 98,461 civilians in Jiujiang (including the various counties and cities under its jurisdiction) died in the war, many from sickness and epidemics. Cent58 (talk) 12:24, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Please see WP:RSPRIMARY for notes on the use of primary sources. For safety, consider using explicit attribution ("According to so-and-so, this happened") for details taken from primary sources; there's a reason secondary sources are preferred because they act to filter out inaccuracies in primary sources or provide necessary context.

Also, when adding references, do include author and publication date. And since you're using many non-English language sources, include translations of author names, titles and publishers (eg. Template:Cite book includes fields for translations); this makes it easier to get a general idea of the credibility and value of the source, as well as making it clearer when primary sources are being used. - RovingPersonalityConstruct (talk, contribs) 05:03, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

You may find Template:Cite archive useful (see example Special:Diff/1288437615).

Also make full use of Wikipedia:Citation templates and fill out as many of the template fields as possible. In particular, make sure to include unique identifiers for the document (for example, books may have ISBNs or something else, stuff from archives have some sort of ID too.) Take for example (from Special:Diff/1268730388):

{{cite book |title= 對黃山整軍會議審查修正各案之訓示 |last=Jieshi| first=Jiang |page= 472}}

That citation needs publisher, date of publication, document ID, etc.. Also, if the author is who I think it is, the author's name should be romanized as Chiang Kai-shek per MOS:PINYIN. - RovingPersonalityConstruct (talk, contribs) 17:18, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello, Cent58,

Thank you for creating Battle of South Shanxi (1940).

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

I can't find any reference to a "Battle of South Shanxi" outside of the main 1941 Battle of South Shanxi (which is very notable). Therefore, this is either original research or inaccurate. thanks.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Aszx5000}}. Remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Aszx5000 (talk) 14:48, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

@Aszx5000: The 1940 battle of South Shanxi has no reference in any English sources, but there are many Chinese sources about the battle or parts of the battle. Both the official military history of the Chinese Nationalist Revolutionary Army and Imperial Japan ('History of the Anti-Japanese War' and 'Senshi Sōsho' respectively) also contained information about the battle. The 'History of the Anti-Japanese War: Battle of South Shanxi' about the more notable 1941 battle of South Shanxi had a minor reference to the battle in its prelude. The 'History of the Anti-Japanese War: Shanxi-Suiyuan Guerilla Warfare (Part 2)' expanded more for the battle, spanning from page 151 to page 167. Volume 18 of 'Senshi Sōsho' also talk about the three phases of the battle from page 297 to page 301. I've updated the page with relevant information from the 'Senshi Sōsho' and 'History of the Anti-Japanese War' ~~~~ Cent58 (talk) 04:54, 1 October 2025 (UTC)

Hey @Cent58

There's currently a debate over Chinese and Japanese losses on the main World War II page if you're interested. Would like your thoughts if you're down. Wahreit (talk) 15:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Hi @Cent58

Would you be able to assist with building out the Three Alls Policy page? I think Bian Xiuyue has good works on this. Wahreit (talk) 20:43, 24 January 2026 (UTC)