User talk:Centurion Seraph

Hello, as you can see in: MOS:MORELINKWORDS, it's okay to put more words inside a piped link to make it clear which page the link will take you to. As you're doing it ([[2024 College Football Playoff National Championship|national championship]]), it appears like the link to College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS. So using [[2024 College Football Playoff National Championship|national championship in the 2023 season]], it's pretty clear which page is linked.

No other conferences have awards named after player. For example, the SEC doesn't have an award named Jackson–Walker Running Back of the Year, it's common sense, as you can see in: WP:COMMON

It's not necessary to use the #Results to indicate McCarthy's three championships, because isn't a broken link, as you can see in: WP:NOPIPE. This also applies to the Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year, as you said yourself, we should keep the links simple, so by using [[Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year|Griese–Brees Big Ten Quarterback of the Year]], you are contradicting yourself, making a link longer than necessary and breaking that rule.

Lastly, I ain't part of anything that you cannot be too, if I told you that you could be banned it's because you're breaking rules, always try to follow them, you can find it on pages like: WP:MOS, WP:REDIRECT and some more.

Have a nice day =)

Hi there. If you're linking to Big Ten Quarterback of the Year, just encode it as [[Big Ten Quarterback of the Year]], dont pipe it as [[Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year|Big Ten Quarterback of the Year]], per MOS:NOTBROKEN. Keep up tbe Big Ten edits. —Bagumba (talk) 02:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay thanks, I didnt know that was possible. Can any other Big Ten awards newly encode like that now, that previously couldn’t? Centurion Seraph (talk) 11:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

If the term looks like something that other pages would also want to link directly to or if it looks like a useful search term, just create a redirect if it doesn't already exist (Wikipedia:How to make a redirect). —Bagumba (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi Centurion Seraph. Thank you for your work on Big Ten Running Back of the Year. Another editor, Voorts, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Please remember to tag redirects that you create per WP:REDCAT.

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Voorts}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

voorts (talk/contributions) 21:37, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, my apologies!! Tell @Voorts: I said thank you! Centurion Seraph (talk) 22:36, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

No problem. Happy editing, voorts (talk/contributions) 22:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

It's great that you involved the wider WP:NFL about the situation with McCarthy's lead. A note for the future is to be aware of WP:FORUMSHOP. It seems there was already ongoing discussion at McCarthy's talk page. It would have been better to point editors to discuss over there (also see WP:CANVASS), instead of duplicating some points and fragmenting the discussion. Regards. —Bagumba (talk) 23:33, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

That was not what I was trying to do at all. Jweiss asked if we thought we should go to wikitalk in the middle to end of the discussion. I asked cbl to help when I brought up wikitalk, and he dismissed my comments. I tagged all the editors, its not fragmented. I dont understand how you think I am trying to inappropriately influence anything? Even when I try and do the right thing, I get accused to doing something intentionally wrong. I did not know you couldnt go from a local talk page with 4 people to WT, Im sorry. I dont understand how I would point people over there without posting anywhere else, like WT. Im not knowledgeable enough i guess, because thats all I wanted to do.Centurion Seraph (talk) 23:51, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, it wasn't an accusation as much as it was an FYI to consider for the future. I don't think you were doing it to get an advantage, but other people might be more of a stickler for the letter of the law, esp. in a heated discussion. —Bagumba (talk) 00:00, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Okay. Thank you. I will make a note not to in the future. Centurion Seraph (talk) 00:29, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Centurion Seraph! I noticed that you have reverted to restore your preferred version of Jahmyr Gibbs several times. The impulse to undo an edit you disagree with is understandable, but I wanted to make sure you're aware that the edit warring policy disallows repeated reversions even if they are justifiable.

All editors are expected to discuss content disputes on article talk pages to try to reach consensus. If you are unable to agree at Talk:Jahmyr Gibbs, please use one of the dispute resolution options to seek input from others. Using this approach instead of reverting can help you avoid getting drawn into an edit war. You have attempted to add the same information to the infobox 5 times now, and you've been reverted by myself and another user. This is considered edit warring and you should seek consensus on the talk page instead of repeatedly making a change to your preferred version.. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Please also note that running into each other on multiple pages and disagreeing, in of itself, is not considered WP:HOUNDING (your accusation of such can be found here). I'm very clearly a Detroit Lions fan, hence the Gibbs page being on my watchlist, and the list in which we disagreed (List of NFL annual interceptions leaders) was something that I nominated and helped to promote to featured list status, which is why it's also on my watchlist (as are all the annual stat leader pages). Hey man im josh (talk) 17:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Noting the relevant diffs for you attempting to add this information to the infobox 5 times at Jahmyr Gibbs: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Two of these were reverted by another user, while the most recent 3 attempts were reverted by me. As previously mentioned, this would make Gibbs the only person to have this information highlighted in their infobox. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:42, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

You are hounding, this all stems from disagreements we have had where you didnt get your way on the NFL talk page in 2024 (and your own talk page). You are clearly holding a grudge, and you can see I’ve edited my own edits to try and improve the information. It is listed in a note, that is not the same thing, and is clearly relevant and worthy of inclusion. Ill add to the other players for consistency. Does this make you feel important? Centurion Seraph (talk) 18:05, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

@Centurion Seraph: I'd like to remind you to WP:AGF, because I wasn't aware that we had literally ever communicated with one another. I'm actually perfectly okay with "not getting my own way", so long as that's what consensus dictates, which is probably why I don't remember this so called disagreement of the past. The information you wish to be added is already included in the body of the article, but it's not standard to include the information you're attempting to add. Gibbs' infobox should be following the standard formatting that all other pages follow, and adding to every page doesn't resolve the issue and magically make your edit warring okay. You're welcome to propose the addition and get consensus for this information to be noted in NFL player infoboxes, and I urge you to seek it out at WT:NFL if you feel so strongly about it. With that said, it's not one of the "main stream" sort of stats that we would typically include in infoboxes. Such as that we don't typically include the annual scrimmage yard leaders in player infoboxes. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:15, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

I just saw your edit summary. I did not make a “Jewish dog joke,” that’s ridiculous. I was saying that your thinly-veiled insinuation of possible antisemitism was poorly placed. If you want to see why I delinked countries and religions, try reading MOS:OVERLINK where countries and religions are specifically called out as items not to be linked. I would have done the same for the United States and Christianity (for example). Rikster2 (talk) 21:23, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

I initially wrote “I disagree with these. More knowledge, less hate.” Clearly meaning, the more people know about something the less hate there will be in the world. If you took that as a “thinly-veiled insinuation of possible antisemitism”, then that was was already in your thoughts. You responded with this “I am afraid yi7 are barking up the wrong tree citing hate. Common terms like countries and religions do not need to be linked, the6bare known”. I apologize if that was a poor choice of an idiomatic phrase, combined with the typos it seemed like an intentional joke. Centurion Seraph (talk) 22:17, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

In what universe are typos intentional? And, no, Israel is not treated differently than other countries and Judaism is not treated differently than other faiths. I am pretty sure I also de-linked the United States at the same time. You saying “more knowledge, less hate” sounded like you were accusing me of making edits (to bring the article to meet WP:MOS by the way) influenced by some statement about Israel or Judaism. Maybe choose your words a little more carefully in the future if that was not what you meant. Rikster2 (talk) 22:23, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Says the user who made a Jewish dog joke. It says intentional joke, not intentional typo. I also never claimed it was treated differently or made any claim, other than you finished with a joke. You see the conversation in front of you. Centurion Seraph (talk) 22:31, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

That’s just it man, I didn’t make a “Jewish dog joke.” Is that even a thing? Wouldn’t occur to me. It’s not a joke, it’s just a common saying indicating you had the wrong idea about my intentions. And it was offensive because you did not assume good faith. At least that is how it came across. Rikster2 (talk) 22:37, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Can you make me a article 2601:406:4685:8FD0:5CB7:83A2:174E:C06 (talk) 05:08, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Not sure what your rationale is for reverting citation needed tags. We have certain sections that lack needed citations. I went through and identified the specific parts needing citation. A generic tag on the article does not effectively communicate/identify what needs citing. Importantly, much of the tagging concerns factual assertions about living persons, raising WP:BLP issues. I intend to reimpose the citation needed tags, at at a minimum, where BLP issues are present. Instead of removing the tags, how about adding citation? Cbl62 (talk) 22:13, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

That is exactly my thoughts. How about adding the citation. They are abundant and easily available. You claim constructive edits in the lead, but cant be constructive otherwise? Im sorry I dont mean to be abrasive, but should you not implement the changes you wish to see and have cited. You have edited that page numerous times before , and the team seasons each year prior. As well as other programs across the NCAA. I dont understand lighting that entire specific page up, and only that page, outside the normal or standard for other similar pages (years and programs) with an overkill of citation needed. Centurion Seraph (talk) 22:31, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

There is nothing "normal or standard", nor appropriate, about unsourced content on Wikipedia. To the contrary, it is one of Wikipedia's core principles/pillars that content must be sourced. That concern is exacerbated even further when the content makes facutal claims about living persons. It would be appropriate to delete the content altogether, but I took a significantly less draconian response by adding "citation needed" tages to the specific content, almost all involving living persons, that needs citing. Cbl62 (talk) 00:48, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

See WP:PILLARS - top level core policies of Wikipedia: "All articles must strive for verifiable accuracy with citations based on reliable sources, especially when the topic is controversial or is about a living person."

See also WP:BURDEN: "Facts or claims without an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports[b] them may be removed. They should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source."

See also WP:REMOVEUNSOURCED. Cbl62 (talk) 01:09, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

I suppose you’re incapable of applying the changes you wish to see. Centurion Seraph (talk) 01:11, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

The obligation is on the person who puts the information in the article. Much of it is pure trivia/cruft, e.g., the quarterback assistant -- no, not the quarterback coach, not even the assistant quarterback coach, but a low level staff position called the "quarterback assistant". People get way too carried away with including deep dives into athletic department staff, stuff that is not particularly consequential of encyclopedic. If you or someone else thinks this informatio is worthwhile, at a bare minimum, you or they need to include citations to a reliable source. Don't ask me to source such nonsense. Cbl62 (talk) 03:18, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

By the way, and on a more congenial note, Happy New Year, fellow Wolverine fan! Cbl62 (talk) 03:19, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

I did not add that information, or near anything else on that page. I do hear your concerns though. Happy New Year! The end to the day got a little better for us following the Cotton Bowl. Centurion Seraph (talk) 04:00, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

It would have been cool to have 3 Big 10 schools in the Final 4, but I won't shed any tears for the Buckeyes. Cheers! Cbl62 (talk) 04:39, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

I am in the middle of a rewrite. Please hold off until I finish. Then edit away. Cbl62 (talk) 03:39, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

Youre also editing over things I just recently added and referenced, and replacing with some incorrect information. Centurion Seraph (talk) 03:42, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

Please cease and desist. I have now added an "in use" tag. You are free to edit again when I am done and remove the tag. Cbl62 (talk) 03:48, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

I am actually fixing factual errors that have been in the article for years. His years of service at various schools was completely wrong. What errors do you contend I have made? If you are correct, I will gladly fix. Cbl62 (talk) 03:59, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

You continue to edit despite the "inuse" tag. You have created multiple edit conflicts and loss of my edits. This behavior is a direct violation of our guidelines and is unacceptable. Cbl62 (talk) 04:02, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

This page was brought up in a public discussion because I was inuse editing it. You have made dozens of errors. Erasing dates, adding wrong degrees, teaching jobs, playing dates, deleting sources. Youre throwing your weight around on a article you only noticed because i was actively editing it. Now you want to erase and rewrite the whole thing, and claim I can no longer edit because you showed up, adding false info? Centurion Seraph (talk) 04:05, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

• You are grossly misstating the facts. My attention was called to the article by Jweiss's post. I began a major rewrite at 16:03. You had not edited the article for over four hours before that. If I have made errors, list them for me. I have actually been trying to correct errors. Cbl62 (talk) 04:10, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

  The discussion was active and was about both our edits on that page. You didnt think Id be watching it? I was not pleased with facts being removed for incorrect information. If you check the edit history just now every one was constructive and sourced to ensure it was accurate. Centurion Seraph (talk) 04:19, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

Agree to disagree. Cbl62 (talk) 02:41, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

• As for the bit about not making the Philadelphia Eagles due to the color of his skin, yes I removed it. The assertion was made by his brother and doesn't appear supported by reality. I searched for any evidence that Jackson was a serious contender for the Eagles QB job and found none. So, yes, I dropped it. You re-inserted it with the assertion that I don't believe in race relations in the deep south in the 1960s. Please. Cbl62 (talk) 04:13, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

  His is a well established writer that only wrote 40 years later. I think the point of that article is you wont find evidence he was strongly considered, because he never was due to his skin color. It also doesnt say starting QB. They had never had a black QB, why would there be articles written about him being a serious contender? It says he wasnt afforded to opportunity to play QB in any role for the Eagles. Centurion Seraph (talk) 04:22, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

The statement is attributed to his brother, no? Have you seen other evidence of his completing for QB with the Eagles? There are also claims by Jackson that he played QB in the WFL for Detroit. I've yet to see verification for that either. There seems to be a lot of exaggeration, and I intend to root it out unless verifiable sources are found. Cbl62 (talk) 04:32, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

The lead should summarize his full career, yet you have struck everything about his coaching career elsewhere. Please stop doing that. Cbl62 (talk) 01:29, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

In your edit summary, you state: "The standard and consensus is add the University." On that basis you have eliminated from the lead links to the specific programs for which Jackson worked and replaced them with generic school links. Can you point me to the "consensus" you are referring to. I've always understood that the more specific and precise like is preferable. It is certainly more useful to the reader to link to the program for which he worked rather than the University as a whole. Can you please clarify and provide a link to your claimed consensus? Cbl62 (talk) 03:21, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

• Hi Centurion, I didn't hear back from you on this. Can you please provide the clarification and link supporting your claimed consensus? Otherwise, I plan to revert you generic university links back to the football program links. It is important to respond to talk page inquiries, so I hope to hear back from you. Thanks. Cbl62 (talk) 02:35, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

  Yeah. I have routinely been told that by senior members and linked to it. Have you checked Nick Saban, Jim Harbaugh, Bo Schembechler, Curt Cignetti, ect. Centurion Seraph (talk) 02:56, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

  Did you notice Jweiss added the university title to the Toledo section. It is their employer. Where they coached. The program is already linked and would in turn be redundant, when something else important can and should be added Centurion Seraph (talk) 03:03, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

• So the answer is "no", you can't cite a discussion where a supposed consensus was formed. I continue to believe that the more specific link is best when the coaching positions are first mentioned in the body of the article. (There is no redundancy as the infobox is NOT part of the body of the article.) The more specific link takes the reader to an article that is more likely to be helpful and informative, moreso than a generic article on the university. That said, we have much more important issues to sort out on the Jackson article given the mountain of misinformation you insist on inserting into the article. Cbl62 (talk) 14:39, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

  I don't think there is a consensus on a strict style here. My MO is to mention he school first and then the team later when more details are explored. I get the argument about most specific links, but the college of university, not the football program, is the legal entity that hires coaches, makes contracts with them, and pays their salaries. The one thing there is consensus not to do is to display the school but link to the football team. That's very Easter-eggy and poor form. We should always be clear about whether we are discussing the school or the football program. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:37, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Please stop fucking with the dates. You are wrong, and it is clear.

Contemporaneous sources from The Flint Journal show that Jackson was head coach at Flint Southwestern High school from 1978-1979. There are also contemporaneous sources showing he was not hired at Toledo until January 1980. Please utilize your reading capability and actually read the sources. Your knee jerk reversions of cited and accurate factual information is getting really tiring. Cbl62 (talk) 05:11, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

• So that you need not overextend yourself, here's the notice of his hiring at Toledo in January 1980: . Please actually read it. Thank you. Cbl62 (talk) 05:13, 4 March 2026 (UTC)
• Again, to ensure that you see them, here are the sources showing that he was Flint SW head coach in 1978 and 1979. This from The Flint Journal in June 1978 shows he was hired in 1978 as "the new head coach" after Christiansen retired. Please read it. Cbl62 (talk) 05:16, 4 March 2026 (UTC)
• Another for you to please, please read. This article fom The Flint Journal in Jan 1989 confirms that Jackson took over as head coach at Flint SW in 1978 and held the position for two years, i.e., 1978 and 1979. Cbl62 (talk) 05:19, 4 March 2026 (UTC)
• Yet another announcing his hiring as head coach at Flint SW in June 1978. here. Are we good now? Cbl62 (talk) 05:32, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Jesus fucking Christ. Even after being provided all of this clear, unambigous and contemporaneous sourcing, you've reverted again. You should not be editing here. Cbl62 (talk) 05:37, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

• @Jweiss11: @WikiOriginal-9:: Can you try talking to Centurion? He insists on misstating the years of coaching service and refuses to listen to me. This is the most frustrating experience I've had with an editor in many years. Cbl62 (talk) 05:42, 4 March 2026 (UTC)
• We also now have clean and unambiguous confirmation that Jackson was hired by Flint SW in early September 1971 (here) and that he coached there the entire 1971 season, with credit being heaped on him for his role in helping the 1971 Flint SW team (here). Yet another nail in the notion that he was still playing for Jackson State (hundreds of miles away) in 1971. Cbl62 (talk) 06:00, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Despite my adding and showing all of these contemporary sources, he's reverted yet again. This is absolutely crazy. I am going to bed now and flying from Bogota to northern Colombia in the morning to enjoy some sun and sand. I hope User:Jweiss11 and/or User:WikiOriginal-9 can step in and deal with this situation in my absence. Cbl62 (talk) 06:05, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Please stop edit warring. It is clear: it said he was so terrific he found himself at the state awards banquet in 1968. Youre deleting sourced material How's that? I removed your blatant misrepresentations of the article written by Jackson's brother-in-law, which does NOT say that Jackson was given all-state honors at the 1968 banquet. Indeed, the other source which does refer to all-state honors says he received those honors in 1965 and 1966 -- years before the 1968 banquet. Accordingly, your trying to mix the two sources to assert he received all-state honors at the 1968 banquet was a stunnig misrepresentation of the historical record. My changes eliminating your misrepresetnation is NOT edit warring; to the contrary, it is a process made necessary by your constant efforts to add falsehoods and exaggerations to the article. Notably, you did not and do not dispute that your additions misrepresented the source, and you have now re-factored your content. Cbl62 (talk) 20:49, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

You reflexively reverted my edit about your Walter Payton claims moments after I made it. You did so with no edit summary. Your reversion erased all of my content showing that the claim is almost certainly false. Let's discuss the matter constructively. Here are the reasons behind the edits that I made:

• The claim is almost certainly false because, as I read the historical record, Walter did not join the Jackson State football team until 1971 (do you have information to the contrary?), at which time contemporaneous records clearly show that Fred Jackson was an assistant coach at Flint Southwestern High School (and thus was not playing football at JSC, nor a "teammate" of Payton).
• Rather than eliminate your claim about Jackson being a teammate of Walter Payton, I did two things:

• I moved the claim to a different place in the article, figuring (1) the purported claim of being teammates with Payton, even if it were true, is not so key to Jackson's playing career that it should be included in the opening paragraph of the long section on Jackson's playing career at JSC, and (ii) it fits best as a matter of editorial process in the discussion of other claims about Jackson purportedly playing for JSC in 1971. Why do you think it is so important it needs to be in the opening two sentences? Don't you agree it fits better in the discussion of the 1971 season?
• I added context raising doubts about the assertion. In particular, I added the following which you removed:

Some non-contemporaneous accounts also claim that Jackson was a teammate of Walter Payton at Jackson State. However, the claimed connection with Walter Payton is contradicted by the facts that Payton did not play for Jackson State until 1971 whereas (i) there are no contemporaneous records of Jackson playing for Jackson State in 1971, and (ii) Jackson during the 1971 season was coaching high school football in Flint, Michigan. Jackson was, however, teammates at Jackson State with Payton's older brother Eddie Payton.

The foregoing offers IMO a balanced presentation. It preserves your assertion that that the two were teammates, but it provides additional context. Why do you believe it is appropriate to delete this important contextual information?

Please let's discuss. Cbl62 (talk) 13:27, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

1) you continue to shift information away from sources and/or seemingly, knowingly delete sources as you did today with David Jones. That Payton bit was also attached the the TMD reference as a secondary source, and directly fits the possible timeline listed above it in the introduction

2) the paragraph you wrote was a direct duplicate of listed paragraph above it of information regarding 1971 disputed season; and there was some unsourced information.

3) I believed it to have been another duplicate from the reference citation it had already been it prior. Centurion Seraph (talk) 18:10, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

1) I did not intend to delete any of your sources for the Payton claim; I believe I added them both to the spot where I moved the Payton discussion. My point with the "split-and-move" is that the identity of the coach who recruited Jackson is relevant in the opening of the JSC section, but the supposed teammate-ship with Payton does not and should be shifted to the part of the JSC section that deals with the 1971 season -- the season in which they were supposedly teammates. I am still hearing no objection to the "split-and-move" just an objection to deleting sources (which I don't think I did, and which I am happy to correct if that was done).

2) My passage about Payton (the block quote set forth above), including noting that he was actually teammates with Payton's older brother Eddie Payton, was plainly not in any way a duplicate of other content. To show some good faith here, and in light of your error, please either restore the deleted content yourself or confirm here that you have no objection to my doing so. Cbl62 (talk) 01:10, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

I guess that you do not want to restore the content. I will go ahead and do it. Per this discussion, I will make sure that your sources are preserved. Cbl62 (talk) 22:05, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

Will do it in the morning in case you decide to do it yourself?

• While we're talking, tell me this: How can you explain the multiple, contemporaneous Flint Journal articles in 1971 reporting contemporaneously that Jackson was hired at Flint SW in early September 1971 and the comments published at year end in November 1971 wherein head coach Dar Christiansen praised Jackson's contributions to the success of the 1971 Flint SW team? Were these hallucinations? If so, it's quite remarkable (indeed, not remotely credible) that they would repeatedly hallucinate and publish content about Jackson's role on the 1971 Flint SW team -- or perhaps these were clairevoyant hallucinations as to what would happen in 1972? Cbl62 (talk) 01:18, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

No thought/explanations as to how/why contemporaneous reports from 1971 could have been accurate but a year early? Cbl62 (talk) 22:32, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

Another point to discuss. I struck your sentence saying there were no sources showing that Jackson saw game action in 1967. As noted in my edit summary here explaining: "striking sentence saying there are no reports of Jackson playing in 1967 ... nobody claims otherwise, and it was common for freshman to play for the freshman team rather than the varsity in those years ... so an affirmative assertion, as here, that there are no sources saying he played as a freshman is not even remotely pertinent." You immediately reverted my edit with no edit summary and no comment. Please let's discuss. Given the fact that noone is claiming that he played for JSC until 1968, why in the world do we need to include this disclaimer of sources on 1967 playing time? It seems completely without purpose. Cbl62 (talk) 13:51, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

You directly assert that he was a sophomore in the above in what seems a likely error. He would have had to attended JSC in 1967 as a freshman. There are zero sources from 1967 to 2026 that say he was at JSC in 1967. In addition to the fact, if he enrolled at JSC in 1967 he would hav graduated high school at 16, had his entire freshman year of college at 17 and graduate at 20. That timeline and the fact zero sources ever stated he was at JSC in 1967 warrant the inclusion. Im not saying its false or erasing sophomore Centurion Seraph (talk) 18:15, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

The source says he was a sophomore in 1968, and that makes perfect sense. The Wisconsin source says he won all-state high school honors in 1965 and 1966 (presumably his junior and senior years in high school), and it thus makes sense that he would have been a college freshman in 1967 and a college sophonore in 1968. That sequence follows and fits like a hand in a glove. As for his being 17 when he enrolled at JSC, two possibilities: (i) many people (myself included) started college at age 17 -- nothing shocking or out of whack about that, or (ii) having been writing/editing sports biographies for a lot of years, I can tell you it is not at all unusual for athletes and coaches to shave a year or two off their year of birth. Either way, I don't see anything extraordinary about a 17-year old freshman, and your sentence about no coverage of him in 1967 sticks out in the article like a sore thumb, likely confusing readers since there is no claim by anyone that he played for JSC's varsity in 1967. IMO it significantly reduces the quality of the article -- and with no net benefit to the reader's understanding of Jackson. Cbl62 (talk) 00:54, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Kim Barnes Arico, a link pointing to the disambiguation page MBWA was added.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 10:28, 11 March 2026 (UTC)