User talk:Daniel1212

Please note I have reverted the attached edit of yours. Not that it is any way wrong, but that it does not seem to have anything to do with the subject of the article. TomHennell (talk) 13:27, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

However, against this inference is the understanding that the reproved action of Peter, which Barnabas had followed, was not one of doctrinal opposition but one of weakness, being in contradiction to the gospel of grace which James, Peter and John had just formally affirmed, (Galatians 2:11–14) as well as to Peter's own previous action and to his words in the ecumenical council of (Acts 15:7–11).^[1][2] The only other dispute between Paul and Barnabas did not concern accommodation of Jewish law, but was due to Paul's disallowance of John Mark, nephew to Barnabas, ((Colossians 4:10) who had once abandoned a previous mission, (Acts 13:13) to accompany them on their next mission. No other conflict is revealed between the two missionary partners, with Barnabas being the one who dared to bring the newly converted, zealous Paul into the fellowship of the church, (Acts 9:26–27) and again in Acts 11:25–26, and who were later formally commissioned as a team, and worked together as fellow apostles to the Gentiles, (Acts 14:14–14)) preaching the gospel of the grace of God on Paul's first missionary journey.^[3]

You deleted my paragraph on Paul and Barnabas as being of questionable relevance, but i was under the assumption that objectivity would warrant a counter view in the case of such an fringe postulation. I had never read anyone holding that either Paul or Barnabas had an actual doctrinal dispute with Paul, and which is a case of reading that into the text. The sources i provided reflect the common position that the action of Peter (and Barnabas) in separating from the Gentiles was one of spiritual declension, being in contrast to the gospel they themselves preached and affirmed. Merely because some hold to a different view should not mean the traditional one should be excluded Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 17:17, 28 May 2012 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas#Paul_and_Barnabas

Wikipedia is not about assessing objective facts, but about recording current published scholarship. That scholarship may be 'objective' or not, but it makes no difference to how we record it; as Wikipedia does not sit in judgment. In this case, the reading of doctrinal opposition between Paul and Cephas (Peter), on the matter of sharing food with Gentiles, is certainly tenable in critical scholarship - Joseph Fitzmeyer for example, suggests as much in the Jerome Biblical Commentary. But in any case, this Wikipedia article is not about the letter to the Galatians, but about the Gospel of Barnabas; and most certainly all commentators on the GoB tend to link the evident hostility of the gospel author towards Paul and his teachings, with the passages in Acts and Galatians where Paul and Barnabas appear to fall out with one another. If that is what scholarly commentators on Barnabas say, that is what Wikipedia should record. Were there to be published scholarship on the Gospel of Barnabas that took a contrary view, then that too should have been recorded and cited. But published scholarship specific to the letter to the Galatians, is to be included in that article; not this one. TomHennell (talk) 23:54, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, i understand that even absurd views may be included if found in some published work, but at least some of the improved language remains, while the text of Galatians 2:11-14 is there by which readers may see that it was because of fear of the Judaizers that Peter, who previously was told by the Lord not to treat Gentiles as racially unclean, and had eaten with them, (Acts 10:10-14; 11:3) separated from them, and thus readers may discern what is being extrapolated out of the text versus what it states and best warrants. Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 00:37, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Indeed Daniel; please carry on editing, some of your edits will remain as clear improvements, others may be reverted; it happens to us all. The issue of circumcision in the early church is discussed in a number of articles on Wikipedia; you may find the Council of Jerusalem article helpful - and go on from there. There are a range of scholarly opinions; but I think that most commonly current is that the Council was a historic event (Acts 15); and that before it took place, and its decrees were disseminated in a formal letter, the general doctrine of Jewish Christians was not to share table fellowship with Gentile Christians (Peter's vison at Joppa does not have appear to have been regarded as binding on the Church in general). If the events in Galatians 2 take place prior to the Council - as is certainly one scholarly view - then the emissaries from James are simply reminding Peter (and Barnabas) not to anticipate a decision that had then yet to be agreed. A lot depends on how scholars understand the meeting described in Galatians 2:9; but at any case, it seems clear that Paul interprets the agreement made at that meeting as implying immediate common table fellowship; while Peter and Baranabas (who were also at the same meeting) understood the agreement as implying that common table fellowship had yet to be determined at the forthcoming Council. TomHennell (talk) 10:14, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Whether or not the Council took place first or after Gal. 2, the reality is that before this Peter did eat with Gentiles, which were not to be regarded as unclean, and Gal. 2 says the reason why his separated in Gal. 2 was due to fear of the Judaizers who apparently treated them as if they were. Moreover, Peter refers to his Acts 10 revelation in justifying his eating with them to Jews (Acts 11) and in Acts 15 that the Gentiles are saved the same way Jewish believers are. And there should be little doubt that Barnabas also at with Gentiles, and powerfully witnessed that in Christ Jesus "there is neither Jew nor Greek." Thus the idea that this separation was due to a doctrinal dispute as the article at issue contends, versus declension due to fear, is contrary to what the actual texts state.

And as the "brethren" in Acts 21 example (even if not exactly the same class as those in Gal. 2) would have killed Paul due to his message of grace, this was a strongly held tenet that many Jewish Christians might have held on to despite what Peter's revelation, or Acts 15 if it occurred first.

All in all i see the idea that Peter and Barnabas not only had a doctrinal dispute argument, but such a one as to support the "Gospel of Barnabas, as so unwarranted and extreme that no scholar has taken the time to publish a refutation of it.Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 16:31, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Hello, the recent edit you did here: has some issues. Main issue is, the website: http://www.newadvent.org is not considered a trusted site, I know this because of past issues. The link can still be on there, but I highly recommend placing a more reliable link such as a Google book supported by multiple scholars. I'm aware of the other link you placed, but for future clarification, place another more reliable link. That's all, cheers. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 00:41, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

The Catholic Encyclopedia is not considered a trusted site? Where do you see that lately? I could replace it with this. But you sure are on the ball! Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 01:31, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

You can keep the site as an alternative link in use for navigation, but at least two reliable links are recommended, one as a primary source, and the other for clarification. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 01:47, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

I changed it to a Google book link. I never heard of the CE not being a trusted site here (and I am not even a pro-Catholic) What constitutes a reliable link and a scholar is some peoples judgment can be another in someone else's. Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 02:24, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

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- MrX 🖋 16:23, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

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FDW777 (talk) 17:02, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Editors are expected to treat each other with respect and civility. On this encyclopedia project, editors assume good faith while interacting with other editors, which you did not appear to do at Talk:History of Christianity and homosexuality. Here is Wikipedia's welcome page, and it is hoped that you will assume the good faith of other editors and continue to help us improve Wikipedia! Thank you very much! Doug Weller talk 10:55, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

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Doug Weller talk 10:57, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

And your source was pretty balanced whereas your summary was not. See my changes. An example is all your detail about the violence, but only mentioning tear gas usage by the police while the source says "impact munitions, tear gas, flash-bang grenades and smoke bombs," and also mentions HC canisters which can be deadly. Doug Weller talk 11:01, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

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