User talk:EEng

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I just hope there's been no WP:HOUNDING or WP:BITEY behavior going on in that discussion.^[1] EEng 16:44, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

	The Original Barnstar
	Thank you for finally shortening the United States Senate section on the Joe Biden article. Username6892 (Peer Review) 01:24, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Well aren't you sweet! There's more to do but I pooped out. EEng 01:30, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I've wanted to ask this for a while now. But... Special:Diff/987768637. And your various other edits where you pick a time in an obscure 4,000 view video or a two-sentence quote from page 386 in some text. Is there some special bookmarking app I don't know about, or some memory pill, or what's going on here? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 03:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

You mean stuff like this ? Believe it or not I carry it all around in my head (see right); when I was in college the dean said I was a "coal mine of information". It all started after I was struck by lightning at 5 years old. Modern science has failed to explain it. But don't worry – I am sworn to use it only for good, never for evil. EEng 06:42, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Well, that certainly brings a whole new meaning to "electrical engineering"! Somehow, I envision that it hurt the lightning bolt far worse than it hurt you. (The dean, however, may have been thinking about black lung.) --Tryptofish (talk) 19:59, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

• Further evidence for the prosecution: , . EEng

I want to thank you more emphatically than with just a one-click "thanks" for bringing up Jarndyce and Jarndyce on ANI. It made me very happy. Bishonen | tålk 15:55, 9 November 2020 (UTC).

Glad to oblige, though I was ensnared in just such a case so my feelings are more mixed. EEng 20:27, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

		The Barnstar of Integrity
		Two years ago, I came to EEng's userpage to steal memes and replace them with pictures of Ned Kelly. Over time I realized this user is a vanguard and upholder of our most important value here: the common man's right to defy figures of authority by throwing banoffee pies at their portraits. Thank you for keeping Wikipedia sane and free. Double Plus Ungood (talk) 06:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

And I, in turn, want to say thank you for the opportunity to learn, for the first time, of banofee pies! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:03, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

But you have relatively high visibility, at least where Wikipedia subject matter is politically sensitive. Because every change here is more or less permanent, the ship has already sailed, but I urge you to consider the fact that Wikipedia is somehow the most reliable source of consolidated information on the Internet. I get the jokes, the cynicism, the memes, all that, but you are providing an extremely transparent, highly visible profile of personal bias. The best practices for information sourcing on Wikipedia provide some protection, but they're not bulletproof. An explicitly partisan affectation by the editors undermines the mission of objective truth, and aggravates the environment in which objective truth is a matter of partisan contention. IRSpeshul (talk) 05:50, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

^{( Buttinsky)} ... but your special user page also has explicitly partisan affectations: I like Firefly, classical music, the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, hookah tobacco, good liquor, guns, and math. Levivich ^harass/_hound 05:56, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

grr, maths ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 07:29, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

See that's the problem with these extremely transparent, highly visible profiles of personal bias: look how aggravated the environment is getting. I'm not one to get into an argument about mathism with a mathist (or, as I believe they prefer to be called, "mathematician"), but we have a lot of articles about math, and we don't want to give the impression that we tilt pro-mathian or are some kind of math-wing website. Levivich ^harass/_hound 07:38, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

So you're just going to keep calling PR mathist when they've clearly expressed a preference for mathsist? —valereee (talk) 12:50, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Woe to anyone with a lisp. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:27, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I disagree 100%. Everyone has biases. Neutral editing means putting your biases aside when editing (when editing content, anyway), not pretending you don't have any. EEng 06:10, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Also the original comment comes off as being much like the people who say "I don't have an accent, it's only those people in [other country/other part of same country/other side of tracks in same city] who have accents". Which is to say, un-self-aware. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:24, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm automatically against anyone who implies I have biases. --A D Monroe III^(talk) 03:38, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Biased against them? —David Eppstein (talk) 05:42, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

		The Dragonslayer Barnstar
		I am pleased to award this barnstar to you in recognition of your glorious dragonslaying efforts. Although I actually constructed this for you years ago, I didn't award it to you at the time because I felt that it may not have been appropriate. But, in a world gone mad, I ultimately decided to follow the advice of the eminent scientist E. Lathrop Brown. Please consider this a testimonial in appreciation of your commitment to bring a bit of light and laughter to this dreary place. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 01:43, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) As long as he's just slaying dragons and not fire-breathing lizards we are okay. If you do, 'zilla may sic a sushi on you. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 02:06, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Some people think it's spelled sick so maybe you should write sic [sic]. EEng 02:14, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

If you want to make someone not not laugh, say do not laugh. I didn't not laugh, but I did revert the change - it is possible that the editor dug up the old newspaper article and expanded the section using it, but given the context, I am suspicious. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 14:22, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

How the guinch stole Christmas? EEng 14:51, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Happy New Year! I really feel like it belongs in an exhibit of some sort. I instantly thought of you.

File:จอมพลป. พิบูลสงคราม ในปี 2484.jpg

Field Marshal Plaek Phibunsongkhram, the longest serving Prime Minister of Thailand

All the best, Double Plus Ungood (talk) 02:30, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Double Plus Ungood, you refer, of course, to the fact that the compound adjective longest-serving is missing it's hyphen. Shocking. EEng 03:36, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

No u. Ur a compound adjective, EEng I actually didn't even notice the mistake. wow. Double Plus Ungood (talk) 03:44, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

That photog should get a Pulitzer for snapping the shot just a split-second before the sniper pulled the trigger. EEng 03:54, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

I am sad to write that today when asked by an uninvolved editor to review this dispute, I unfortunately noticed some problematic comments on Talk:Joe_Biden/Archive_14#Infobox.

So, do you actually believe that it's not possible to find a published reliable source for Biden's chairmanships and so on, or are you just being difficult? EEng 13:03, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

In attacking the personal motivation of another editor, this does not assume good faith, which is required of all editors. Surtsicna challenged unreferenced material in the infobox, and the sources provided by other editors in the discussion did not verify the challenged material. WP:UNSOURCED says that the burden of adding sources is on editors who want material added. Surtsicna has no obligation to lift a finger to find a reliable source, and whether they believe that task will be easy, hard, or impossible, the requirement for editors who want the material added to provide sources remains. These dates are not obvious or well-known facts, and this type of information often needs correcting by fact checkers, so that challenge is completely legitimate, even if that editor would also prefer the material be removed for other reasons. The above response only serves to antagonize the other editor, making them less likely to contribute to the project in the future, less likely to be agreeable to your suggestions, less likely to help you, more likely to respond in an negative and unproductive way, less able to think clearly, and more likely to prolong your dispute. More productive responses in this context include:

• Providing the requested sources, which you actually did the next day after another go-round.
• Agreeing that the challenged material should be removed.
• Asking for more time to find the requested sources; Surtsicna was willing to leave the material in place with citation-needed tags in the meantime.
• Proposing that different text be added.
• Saying nothing, which would be far better than responding with a personal attack.

To be blunt, seriously believing that there aren't complete and definitive sources for the chairmanships of Senate committees brings into serious question your competence to edit this article. Seriously. Did you even try? [35] EEng 05:15, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Given that the sources provided by another editor failed to verify the challenged material, a reasonable inference is that it might be hard to find such a source. (Though that did not turn out to be true in the end.) As I pointed out earlier, Surtsicna had no obligation to try to find such a source, and it is unfair to conclude that failing to identify the requested sources when that burden does not fall on this editor is a demonstration that this editor lacks the skill to do so. There isn't even a requirement that editors who do the useful work of challenging unreferenced, unobvious material have any familiarity with sources relevant to a topic. Attacking the competence or intelligence of another editor in this way is unacceptable. Productive responses to errors by other editors include fixing partial errors, reverting large errors, politely pointing out mistakes on talk pages, and allowing that even the most brilliant people make mistakes sometimes. If an editor is chronically and grossly incompetent, eventually it will be worth discussing that as a problem, but not until these more productive responses have not worked, and not in an uncivil fashion. Verbal abuse is not a productive way to notify volunteers about their mistakes, and verbally abusing a volunteer over a mistake they haven't even made, which is what happened here, is even more demoralizing.

I'm considering pinning a little box to the top of this page: "It has been X hours since Surtsicna falsely claimed that everything in an infobox needs to be in the article as well." EEng 15:15, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

This is another unacceptable comment which is snarkily attacking another editor. Assuming good faith on the part of two editors who have completely opposite interpretations of a guideline leads me to conclude that either one has made an honest error, the guideline is unclear, or there is some other complexity yet to be uncovered. A productive, AGF response might be to quote the part of the policy you are relying on, explain your logic, and ask the other editor if you are missing anything. Another AGF response might be to ask the other editor to quote the part of the policy they are relying on, or to clarify their reasoning if they have already quoted. In this case, if you had done either, I think you would have found that Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Infoboxes has two sections which say different things about the disputed question. MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE says that infoboxes should not have any facts which are not in the text of the article, and WP:INFOBOXREF (which you quoted) encourages that but implies that there will also be some cases where editors do legitimately decide to include facts in the infobox but not the article. Instead of identifying this contradiction and bringing it to the attention of other editors for resolution, your response instead demoralized an editor who is being productive and trying to build consensus and improve the reader experience, whether or not you or I agree with that editor's suggestions.

(added) I should also note that one of your comments cites WP:CIR, which specifically says in WP:CIRNOT not to label someone as incompetent, as this is a personal attack.

I hope that in the future instead of tearing into other editors, you can express disagreement in a more productive and civil manner. I hope that you will use the "assume good faith" guideline as a reason to stop and calmly consider the possible legitimate reasons for an editor's actions, including miscommunication and that you yourself might not have a complete picture. I usually find the latter is true for myself. You are clearly a smart person and like the rest of the community of volunteers I'm trying to keep motivated, have many valuable contributions yet to make. Thanks for reading, Beland (talk) 07:13, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

• I have popcorn, will share. -Roxy the grumpy dog . wooF 07:21, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

  Mmm... Salty. Thanks, Roxy. nagualdesign 09:22, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

  Think of your blood pressure. EEng 17:59, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oh dear. All of those examples look relatively polite for EEng. Poor Surtsicna, must feel crushed? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:47, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
• Beland, I'm sad you wrote too. Mostly TLDR, but in passing:
  • I think you would have found that Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Infoboxes has two sections which say different things about the disputed question – No, actually,I would not have found that, as you yourself discovered after posting here (see ), although you strangely omitted to return here to post the traditional Oops! My bad! Maybe next time you should more carefully consider that you yourself might not have a complete picture.
  • Surtsicna was told over and over and over and over and over, with links to the guideline and/or quoting it, that not everything in an infobox needs to be in the article. Nonetheless he or she stubbornly insisted on repeating that idea. And repeating it. And repeating it (in multiple threads, as I recall). AGF doesn't require us to close our eyes to what is obviously either a CIR failure or just plain willful blindness.
  • My comments about the chairmanships weren't about whether sources were in the article, but rather whether they exist at all. Surtsicna said I do seriously believe it is not possible to find published reliable sources about all these people preceding or succeeding Joe Biden in the given date ranges, and I said (yes) To be blunt, seriously believing that there aren't complete and definitive sources for the chairmanships of Senate committees brings into serious question your competence to edit this article, because that's true. And, frankly, if you can't see how absurd it is to imagine that there aren't definitive sources for Senate chairmanships, then you aren't competent to be sticking your nose into this matter. Really.
  • specifically says in WP:CIRNOT not to label someone as incompetent – No, it says it's generally inadvisable to call a person incompetent. I applied my judgment. And look! It worked: ! Too bad S., like you, was unable to bring himself/herself to come out and say, "Oh, now I see. I guess you were right. Sorry I didn't read more carefully."

Surticna's wasted a lot of editor time. You're on your way to doing the same. EEng 17:59, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I had a "CIR failure" once. But it turned out I had just been pigging out on salty popcorn. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:27, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Where in the world do you get this stuff????

I find an encyclopaedia always comes in handy. Little Brown (Jug) 123 (talk) 11:32, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

You are correct that I misread MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE; perhaps Surtsicna and I made the same mistake. I didn't mention that here because I wanted to read your response first. As you can see, Bondegezou used a productive technique to resolve the disagreement over the interpretation of that section, by quoting the part that I had missed. This resulted in two improvements to the section; I clarified the sentence I had been relying on, and RexxS noticed that one of the examples was outdated and updated it. The suggestions I made above include conversational techniques that I hope would have helped you and Surtsicna resolve your disagreement more quickly, if you are concerned about not wasting time, and would have entirely avoided this one. Frankly, I'm more concerned about the editor time we are losing when editors are uncivil to each other and some of them stop editing entirely. My concern is not about who is right or wrong, as you were clearly correct in your interpretation of this guideline, for example. I am much more concerned with your language and your treatment of other editors. In response to this complaint, you might have said nothing, or you might have defended the correctness of your position without implicating matters of civility, or you might have apologized for your words and promised to be more civil in the future. Instead, you have demonstrated that you aren't interested in adopting more productive conflict-resolution techniques, especially when you defended your behavior as having been effective, and labelled yet another editor as incompetent. Given your continued incivility, and because you have been blocked for disruptive editing before, you are blocked from editing for one week. Please reconsider your commitment to civil discourse. -- Beland (talk) 19:55, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

That's the dumbest decision I've seen for a while. Shame on you, Beland. Feel free to block me too. I've had quite enough popcorn for the time being. nagualdesign 21:13, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Purely punitive. Tsk. Blocking user should be admonished. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:23, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

EEng, I've just advocated against this block at Beland's talk page and at AN. Now I'm going to say to you: please be nicer to people who are being dimwitted, as the person at the Biden talkpage was being. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:28, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

More blocks for your collection

You are, yet again, the recipient of a WTF Block‼️⁉️

Remember how much fun you had playing with blocks as a kid? Well, now that you're mature an adult, you can collect blocks with adult letters. They're not only stackable, they're reusable. I swar!! Can't I leave you alone even for a minute without you getting in trouble with the Wiki police!? Memories of our past replaced by decades of, uhm... misunderstandings? Atsme 💬 📧 03:09, 8 February 2021 (UTC) Disclaimer: Intended as humor. Pure pun-ishment.

"Blocked Talk Page?? Easy.... just call DynoProd!" Martinevans123 (talk) 12:25, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Inspired by . With enough material an amusing essay may be possible.

"The blather control aisle – so embarrassing! If you're a Wikipedia editor struggling with incompetence issues, now there's a better way. We home-deliver blather control products directly to you in plain, unmarked boxes ..."

...directly to your user page in plain unmarked mboxes... davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 04:39, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

That's the spirit! But mboxes might be too hackerish. Maybe plain unmarked userboxes? EEng 05:16, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

"The blather control aisle – so embarrassing! If you're a Wikipedia editor struggling with incompetence issues, now there's a better way. We home-deliver blather control products directly to you in plain, unmarked userboxes. Or, if other editors complain you're full of hot air ..."

See also the discussion of "piss off", below. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:55, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

"You are not alone. This problem has a name: WikiLeaks. Minor leaks can be controlled by using appropriate garments, and padding can be added as needed. Normally, this kind of output is directed to the WP:CESSPIT. However, some WP:DICKS have leaked all over the internet, causing the internet to blow up. Should this happen to you, please call for a WP:MOP." --Tryptofish (talk) 20:29, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

"But now there's help: WP:Authority control." --Tryptofish (talk) 20:39, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

• <rubs hands gleefully> Now we're really getting somewhere. And to think I worried this might just poop out. Perhaps we're moving in the direction of something like User:EEng#Computer porn. EEng 22:08, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

  Sorry, I just couldn't control myself. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:11, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

  Well, just remember: Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup. EEng 03:43, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

  At this point, I'll admit to feeling a bit drained. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

  Although... that probably depends. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• In breaking news, WP:Wikipedia is being flooded. Further information at WP:WASTE. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:25, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
• (Courtesy Martinevans123) Related potential ad: Tripe Advisor. EEng 21:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

First of all: holy shit the page loaded in under ten seconds! All right! :-D

But more importantly, you'll recall the ANI haikus of years past. Today, I learned that there's a bot on reddit called "haikusbot" that goes around detecting haikus in other people's comments and pointing them out. I was reading this /r/madden thread (don't judge) and someone wrote:

Did they fix this game, or is it the same trash they shit out every year?

...and the bot posted:

Did they fix this game,
Or is it the same trash they
Shit out every year?
- haterrage
I detect haikus. Sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me

What a brilliant use of technology! Wikipedia needs this. ANI needs this. Levivich ^harass/_hound 16:11, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Preliminary note: The Curator offers this quotation (from the NYT via our colleague Crossroads) as the key to understanding the events in this thread:

Mr. Pegler [a trans man] specified that his beef is not with gender-neutral neopronouns. He felt like elevating objects and animals to human pronoun levels was dismissive. "I couldn’t stomach why anyone would want to identify as an object?" Mr. Pegler wrote in an Instagram direct message. "They dehumanize us as trans people," he added. "We are people! Not objects or animals. So that’s why I stated that they are out of hand, because they make us look like a bit of a joke."

(So far no outrage from animal rights activists condemning Mr. Pegler for his vicous and hateful speciesism.) EEng 14:42, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

As far as I can see, that's just beefism pure and simple! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:56, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

This, too. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:54, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Please stop denigrating Lonsdale and those who use neopronouns. I understand that you don't like the pronoun, nor believe it is a genuine preference, but this is becoming cruel. GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:13, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Our visitor, an otherwise very sensible and respected admin and former arb, refers to a discussion of the idea that tree is a pronoun -- links below.

I'm not denigrating anyone. I am trying to give a short, sharp shock to editors somehow unable to see through the fey pretension of -- (talk page stalker)s may enjoy reviewing WT:Manual_of_Style/Archive_221#When_the_preferred_pronoun_is_not_a_pronoun and , EEng 06:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

You'd think someone who so constantly is having to defend that everyone else work around their Comedic Interjections into discussions they personally find dull and demanding idiosyncratic exceptions be made for them (I had more than enough time to add a couple five dollar words here when scrolling to the bottom of your internet replication of a Hoarders episode here) would have the self awareness to not describe anyone else as having "fey pretensions," but life is, as always, a true surprise. Parabolist (talk) 06:21, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Well, Parabolist, as I live and breathe! How the hell are you? I'm not against fey pretension; I'm against people refusing to recognize it for what it is and insisting articles be based on it. EEng 07:00, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

I understand this has become a little more stressful and strenuous, what with the Troubles below, but I'd like to set all that aside and respond honestly to you here, man. Despite going in on you a bit last night, I want you to know this comes from a place within spitting distance of the heart, and all. But whenever someone comes to me and says, in whatever fun or polite they want to, 'hey, stop being an asshole,' I've learned to just...stop being an asshole. Even when I absolutely wasn't being one. Doubling down when you should be cashing out is the way into the gutter, and all. And so, what struck me last night into saying something was seeing someone come to you in the most polite fashion, asking you to just cool your jets, and getting a full blast of unleaded kerosene in return. Putting your comment back in the way you did, with the edits you did, I find it hard to believe you didn't know you were being kind of an asshole. Which, whatever, who isn't sometimes? But come by it honestly, I think. Anyway, sorry if this hits you in a bad mood, as you might rightfully be in one. Being blocked is never fun. Just sleep on it. Parabolist (talk) 07:48, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Actually, I missed this until now. I appreciate that you took the time. EEng 04:09, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

This, and my attempts to deescalate at Talk:Keiynan Lonsdale, were my attempts to avoid ANI. But since you have insisted: There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is EEng ridiculing a BLP who uses neopronouns. Thank you. GorillaWarfare (talk) 14:21, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

@GorillaWarfare: Do you have any reliable sources indicating that the BLP has used neopronouns outside of that one statement in 2018? (The one where he said, "At the end of the day, everyone’s a tree. I want to call my friends 'tree' and me 'tree' and everyone 'tree.'") If not, you may be on the wrong side of BLP yourself in stating that the BLP "uses neopronous" (present tense) as you did in that AN/I header. ~Awilley (talk) 22:08, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

The 2018 source is the most recent I'm aware of where Lonsdale has discussed pronouns. I can add "may" to the header if you're concerned. GorillaWarfare (talk) 22:13, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

That seems prudent. I had thought of doing something like that myself, but didn't want to cause drama. I was thinking of the bad press Wikipedia could get if we were the ones falsely stating that someone uses alternate pronouns when they don't. (And looking at some of the sources people are bringing at AN/I that seems likely.) ~Awilley (talk) 22:47, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Which appears to be exactly what EEng meant by "Scenario 4". sigh... nagualdesign 23:50, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Blocked

I have blocked you for a week in relation to this ANI thread. While the point you are making may have some validity, making it by insulting and denigrating the subject of a BLP is not acceptable. You have been around long enough to know this. Restoring such comments after they were removed by an admin as BLP violations, and after you were (very politely, I might add) asked to stop is doubly unacceptable and that in particular is the reason for this block. The duration takes into account your familiarity with the relevant polices and your previous block log. You may of course appeal this action by using the {{unblock}} template or by asking for your comments to be copied over to ANI. Regards, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:40, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Also, for the record:

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

And in case it was needed, I remind you that BLP applies regardless of the namespace. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:46, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

While we're here, might as well also add:

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in any gender-related dispute or controversy and associated people. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

GorillaWarfare (talk) 14:49, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

You know, the bit about It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date is kind of hard to take at face value when delivered immediately following a block. ^{SubjectiveNotability} _{a GN franchise} (talk to the boss) 14:56, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

I've seen silly blocks, but taking the piss out of a bloke who wants to be called "tree" seems spot on. Well done, I lolled a lot. -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 15:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Good heavens. Some of my best friends are trees. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:39, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

I am a tree. video. -Roxy the sycamore. wooF 15:48, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

This is conifer erasure! EvergreenFir (talk) 16:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

No, Roxy! No!. This is just getting worse. Taking the piss out of other editors was more than bad enough. Taking it out of a BLP subject is just too muc. And there is no way to accept or condone it. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

But yes. Taking the piss out of somebody that wants to be called tree is fine. Good grief. He's a bloke. -Roxy the sycamore. wooF 15:27, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Whatever one may think about such a person, we all are still required to adhere to BLP policy. Paul August ☎ 15:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

No, Roxy, taking the piss out of the real, living subject of a Wikipedia article, on the talk page of the article, is not fine. It's not what Wikipedia is about and it risks bringing Wikipedia into disrepute. Feel free to take the piss out of ideas, in general terms, so far as is within the project scope, or out of whatever you like on some other corner of the Internet. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:45, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Except taking the piss out of the real, living subject of a Wikipedia article, on the talk page of the article is not what I was doing, and your comment shows you didn't actually read the discussion on the article's talk page and the earlier ones linked from it. What I was doing was taking the piss out of the people who actually believe Lonsdale wants to be called tree, when (as is perfectly obvious) he has no such desire; I point out for the millionth time that Lonsdale's own PR firm continues to refer to him as he . Floquenbeam has it spot on:

treating a request for everyone to use the pronoun "tree" the same as we treat a request to use xe/xem/xyr or similar makes it easier for people to think the mocking attitude of the essay was reasonable. Thinking that using "tree" as a pronoun is dumb is not in the same category as the attitude expressed in the essay. I read the subject's "tree" quote as a kind of philosophical "imagine there's no heaven" kind of statement, not as a genuine request that this pronoun be used. It's fine if people want to interpret it as an actual request, and reword the article to avoid pronouns altogether, as long as we don't actually use "tree" in the article. But I don't think criticizing that is nearly in the same ballpark. IMHO, there was no need for EEng continuing to beat that objection to death, and there was no need for GW to keep it alive, so to speak, by over-reacting to it, and there was no need for a block.

There's definitely a place (though not on WP) for discussion about whether there's liberation value in a thoughtful campaign to get people to understand and use xe/xem/xyr – very much like the movement to bring Ms. into common use 50 years ago. Such a consciousness-raising campaign around a considered addition to the language is completely different from random individuals picking random words to be their "pronouns". If people want to do that, that's not my business. If other people want to invest their mental energy in referring to their friends by tree or bunny pronouns , that's also not my business. But when people show up at Wikipedia insisting that articles refer to people that way, that is my business, and I'm going to say something about it.

I wasn't denigrating Lonsdale for any choice of pronouns, because it's patently obvious that he made no such choice; my disdain is for those who keep insisting that we actually refer to Lonsdale as tree in his article when (as linked at the start of this post) Lonsdale himself doesn't do that. But we have editors so focused on falling all over themselves in the RIGHTGREATWRONGS department that they can't see the forest for the, um, trees.

EEng 16:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

EEng, Sorry, not today. You don't get to use terms like "lunacy" on a BLP talk page, then restore it after you were asked not to (the problem with it having been pointed out), then pretend you weren't talking about the LP. Had you not restored it after GW removed it, I would have just chalked it up to silliness but you tipped it over into malice, or at least making a point at the subject's expense. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:19, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

HJ Mitchell, I care little about being blocked, as most people know, since it's one of the hazards of the job. But I do care about having my words and actions misrepresented, and I'm getting pretty fucking sick and tired of your continuing to say that my, er, criticism was directed at the subject of the article. As now repeatedly requested, please read the thread at get back to me. And I guess it wasn't obvious, but yes please to copy my post above to the ANI thread. EEng 19:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

I've copied it. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:26, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

HJ Mitchell, I'm going to play devil's advocate here a little bit, and draw your attention to User:Ritchie333/Userbox Boris, where I call a living person a "complete nincompoop". What's the difference? If BoJo complained on Talk:Boris Johnson about the criticism in his article, would we have to carefully respect his views, or tell him to take a hike and read WP:COI? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:40, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Ritchie333, I'm disappointed in the comparison. Johnson is a household name and a national politician whose policies have been widely criticised, and who has got to the position he holds by playing the "court jester". While calling him a "nincompoop" on Wikipedia is not entirely appropriate, nobody is likely to be offended by it. It's a lot milder than how I might describe him in the pub when those finally reopen. Describing the way somebody refers to themselves as "lunacy" on a BLP talk page is clearly inappropriate and liable to cause unnecessary offence. EEng knows this. Restoring it after this is pointed out to them is doubly inappropriate. EEng knows this as well. The block is lenient with all things considered, and for just about any other editor would the inevitable consequence of restoring a BLP violation after being asked to stop. He's lucky I didn't spend more than a couple of minutes looking for evidence of "awareness" or this would be a discretionary sanction, probably accompanied by a topic ban. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:59, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

I think the heart of the issue here is not so much that the comment was restored on Talk:Keiynan Lonsdale, as to how it was done, with inflammatory comments faux struck-out and replaced, as opposed to just rewriting the comment to be less disruptive. To me, that reads in the same manner as a child being asked to apologise and doing so in a sarcastic manner eg: "You called her stupid. Apologise." / "I'm sorry you're so stupid". That's just asking for trouble and I can't really criticise the block here if it was done for that reason. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:00, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

@HJ Mitchell: Since one important issue here seems to be whether EEng's criticism was directed at the subject of the article, and so possibly a BLP violation, something EEng specifically denies above, are there diffs that, in your view, show that he did? Thanks, Paul August ☎ 20:26, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

There being no respionse by HJM, nor by GW (who is obviously following here), I'd like some kind person to post the following just below the ANI post by HJM seen in this link:

*:I realize you're dancing as fast as you can, but that's nothing but handwaving until you answer the challenge -- issued to you twice now , and twice ignored by you even as you were posting the above exercise in alternative reality -- to provide actual, specific diffs for my alleged BLP violation. Or maybe Gorilla Warfare can help you out with that? EEng 01:11, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

EEng 01:11, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

 Done nagualdesign 01:21, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

There's no space in my username so if you ping me with that I don't get it, just as a heads up. I do have your page temporarily watchlisted, but was away from my computer this evening. I see someone else has already gotten to posting it. If you are asking me to provide the specific BLP violations, I linked them in the first ANI post. 04:35, 23 March 2021 and 00:57, 25 March 2021 are the two I would consider the actual violations, most of the other stuff was just rude. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia Editor Temporarily Banned for Criticizing Use of 'Tree' as Pronoun

From our second-favorite unreliable source:

Wikipedia Editor Temporarily Banned for Criticizing Use of 'Tree' as Pronoun --Breitbart

(URL: www.breitbart.com/tech/2021/03/26/wikipedia-editor-temporarily-banned-for-criticizing-use-of-tree-as-pronoun/ )

Also featured on today's Drudge Report and on Reddit.

Related: 'Love, Simon' Actor Keiynan Lonsdale Talks About Preferred Pronouns: 'I Just Want to Go by Tree' --Billboard

--Guy Macon (talk) 22:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Eatcha heart out, Barbara!! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

You gotta love it! EEng is now a hero to the QAnon crowd! And the image at right is part of the War on Christmas! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Holy unintended consequences, Batman!

I can hardly bring my fingers to type these words, but... by the standards of typical in-the-moment coverage of this kind of thing, the Breitbart piece is actually a pretty good summary. And they did note that I think Trump's a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron, so I don't feel entirely misrepresented. The one significant fact which I suspect they'd have included, had they known it, is that I'm gay too; I feel it's a bit unfair that I get implicitly cast as the big bad straight-by-default guy vs. queer-speaking-truth-to-power Gorilla Warfare. (Of course, I'm a white male cisgendered gay, so that imposes a 50% discount on my victimhood credit, presumed wokeness, and authority to lecture from the moral high ground.) And I want to correct a definite error – the assertion that I did express support for using other pronouns, including "xe/xem/xyr" pronouns. No, what I said is there's a place ... for discussion about whether there's liberation value in a thoughtful campaign to get people to understand and use xe/xem/xyr (underlining added).

EEng 01:04, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm still undecided whether you're actually a straight, homophobic, right-wing asshole masquerading as a gay, left-wing intellectual for reasons unknown.^[FBDB] nagualdesign 01:18, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Surely it should be obvious that it's the other way around. EEng 01:48, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

That's what's confusing me. nagualdesign 02:25, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

What a very good summary. T. D. Adler gets in a lot of details, all the right order. It must be very boring for most Breitbart readers? But really... that caption for Melania saying "C'mon Donald, light my fire!" Is that the "worst" insult he could find on your page? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:23, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

p.s. seems we all now have to call you "Mr Capone". Martinevans123 (talk) 12:30, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

EEng, I have a bunch of things to say. First, for purposes of this talk page section only, my preferred pronoun is "lawnmower". Second, I am never going to let you live this down. If you'd like, I'll see if I can set up a date for you with Lindsay Graham. I think the two of you would make a cute couple. (Anyone who thinks I just violated BLP can kiss my lawnmower.)

And now that I've had my requisite fun, I want to say something serious. In my opinion, my dear friend Bishonen did the wrong thing, although it's clearly a matter of opinion in which fish, lizards, and lawnmowers can have legitimate differences of opinion. As I said at ANI, I believe that you ridiculed other editors, and that you were wrong to have done so. I'm aware that you went to some high falutin' university like Yale or something, which makes you smarter than the average person hit by lightening. In my experience, you are very frequently correct in your evaluations of editorial judgements here. But the fact that you are right and someone else is wrong does not entitle you to show off what a smarty-pants you are by making fun of them. It's really ugly. I mean it. Stop doing it. Bish wasn't wrong in terms of enacting consensus, but she was wrong in making it psychologically easier for you to figure that you were vindicated. She did you, personally, no favor. And you really, really need to get the message that you have every right to explain why you are correct about something, but no right to ridicule other editors who are wrong. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:35, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

"I heard you went to Yale."

"Yah. I Yust got out."

Please use as my personal pronoun any 11-digit prime number. Any other term -- and this specifically includes rewriting your sentences so that they contain no personal pronouns at all -- will be dealt with according to the customs of our tribe. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:21, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

And I thought T. D. Adler's summary was good. But the Yale joke is the funniest I've seen all year. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:33, 27 March 2021 (UTC) Official Govt. Warning: Note: the value of bitcoin pronouns may go down as well as up.

And Guy Macon's link is required viewing for everyone watching here. (Did you see me in it?) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:20, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

I tried to look away. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:29, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Come to think of it, that was the ultimate illustration of WP:TROUTing! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:38, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Your current travails at ANI

"Current" travails:  – EEng

That video made me notice the resemblance between Buster Keaton and Justin Long. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:43, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah sure, whatevs... Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

No, those jackets, in the image to the right, are definitely not straight. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:53, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Depends on your definition of "straight". Martinevans123 (talk) 22:02, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

For some reason this thread reminded me of a novel that I read a few years ago written by John Kennedy Toole, and the provenace of its title. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:35, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Phil Bridger, surely you don't think I picked that phrase by accident? From the lead of the relevant article: Its central character, Ignatius J. Reilly, is an educated but slothful 30-year-old man living with his mother ... eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion. (Note, however, that I do not live with my mother. Nor am I 30 years old. Nor is my name Ignatius J. Reilly, though if I could do it all over again that'd be a great Wikipeda handle.) EEng 03:52, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

A Tree Grows in Brooklyn? Randy Kryn (talk) 19:40, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:48, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

What? You expect him to opine? Nah - he's more likely to bark. Atsme 💬 📧 18:06, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

We didn't necessarily expect him to opine, but o-maple, o-birch, o-spruce, maybe something like that. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Well, I can see him sprucing up. Maple he will consider it, or more likely he'll birch about it. From little nuts big oaks grow...or something like that...so there's hope, even for coneheads like me. We're at the age when we can no longer bear fruit, but some of us still have dates. Well...fig it, I'll just make like a tree and leave. Atsme 💬 📧 18:22, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I'll admit that I o-overdid the o-orchard. O-O-O-O-Oleander! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:28, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Hot dog, anyone? 🌭 nagualdesign 20:31, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

• I keep hearing about this "EEng Brigand". Where do I apply? I have a lot of experience as a minion and as a henchman and want to move up. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:23, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

  In all seriousness, GM, what I love about your post is that you yourself had me at ANI about a year ago: WP:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1044#Personal attack by EEng. So you see, with repeated exposure everyone comes around to the dark side eventually; it's just a matter of time.

  And as it happens, that very thread was directly on point to the central issue in the most recent dustup; (talk page stalker)s are encouraged to take a look. EEng 04:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

  So much for putting the past behind us and trying to be friendly. I won't make that mistake again. Unwatching this page. --Guy Macon (talk) 13:33, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

  No, no, Guy, you misunderstand – really and truly! What I was saying is that I'm glad we're still friends despite a past misunderstanding (i.e. you've "come around to the dark side" – you know, because some people think I'm Darth Vader or Emperor Palpatine) and bear you no ill will. Please tell me I've cleared that up and you'll un-unwatch; I can't bear to think there will be no more of this kind of thing. EEng 13:50, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

  (Back because of notice on my talk page.) OK, it looks like I completely misread the intent of the above. And for the record, I misjudged the consensus on civility. Turns out that "but what you just said is idiotic" is perfectly OK, but not "you are an idiot". (I am still unsure whether I can write "OK, let's assume for the sake of argument that you are an idiot.") Rewatching page, unstriking comments, going back to trying to be friendly. Let's forget this ever happened. [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpAvcGcEc0k ]. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:33, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

  I actually think it's a good idea to not forget, since it's a useful reminder that misunderstandings happen. Let me do you the compliment of saying that in my estimation your "trying" to be friendly has always been successful. I meant it when I said I don't begrudge you the trip to ANI; many who have dragged me there have, once the community recalibrated their naughty detector for them, become active and valued participants on this very page (another example of what the "dark side" comment referred to).

  The idiotic–idiot distinction really is important. When someone says "You're acting like an idiot", the speaker is taking extra care to show that, despite your moment of temporary idiocy, he doesn't think you are an idiot – if he wanted to say that he could do so with less trouble: "You're an idiot". As I said in the discussion I linked above:

  Everybody plays the fool sometimes, there's no exception to the rule. I personally appreciate having my own follies pointed out, because it is only in that way that wisdom can be attained (not that I'm anywhere near that point yet).

  EEng 21:27, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Guy, for me personally, the fish-throwing link you posted was a genuine delight, and I thank you for it very much. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:55, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I feel sorry for Xena. That would make a great wikiname. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:52, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm looking forward to a remake with Gal Gadot. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

This potentially irrevocable misunderstanding (say if Guy had instead simply said, sotto voce, "fuck you", and walked away never to return), to me, points out the dangers of trying to be too witty/clever/subtle/nuanced, a mistake, in my view, that witty, clever, subtle, and nuanced people like EEng often make. I generally prefer to be boringly direct, at the expense of humor (as a famous philosopher once said there's a fine line between clever and stupid), or when subtlety or nuance is required (say in arguments over personal pronouns), to be painfully detailed. Paul August ☎ 16:20, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Witty? Yes. Clever? Probably. Subtle and nuanced? You have got to be kidding me. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:45, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes EEng's humor is often not particularly subtle or nuanced. But—in serious discussion—he is often quite so, because subtlety and nuance are needed when discussing things that are subtle and nuanced (and all things are to a mind that thinks deeply). Paul August ☎ 17:03, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Let me explain what I was thinking/feeling because human interaction is an interesting topic. First off, I am a high-functioning autistic (what they called Asperger's syndrome before the latest rejiggering of the categories). I have the typical attributes of that condition; high IQ, ability to concentrate on a problem, inability to detect emotional nuances or sarcasm, a love of wordplay, and a tendency to be overly-literal. Like many people with Asperger's I am usually able to successfully mimic someone without the condition, but it requires a conscious effort instead of coming naturally.

I am also having a lot of trouble with alt-med practitioners, mostly because of WP:YWAB. Unrelated, but it has been stressing me a bit.

I felt that EEng was criticizing me over past events, when -- as became clear later -- that was not the intent. And yes, I seriously considered leaving silently, unwatching the page and muting notifications. Posting a goodbye message often results in abuse. I would have left silently if not for the other editors who I have been engaging with friendly bantering with on this page. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:21, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I hope that you take this as a compliment, because that is how I intend it. I would never have guessed that, because I've always been impressed with your sense of humor and use of emotional nuance. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:30, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! Have a couple of fish songs: --Guy Macon (talk) 18:18, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Holy mackerel!! The effects in that 1st video were amazing! Definitely worth a one pound fish!! Atsme 💬 📧 18:32, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for all the fish! I agree with Atsme about the CFX in the first video. (But they had freshwater and saltwater fish in the same tank. Tsk, tsk.) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:22, 28 March 2021 (UTC) I just realized: that would mean tanks for all the fish! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:31, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Two goldfish were relaxing in in a tank. One goldfish turned to the other and asked "do you know how to drive this thing?"

^{Thank you folks. You have been a great audience. I will be here all week. Tell your friends. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:41, 29 March 2021 (UTC)}

^{Those would be soldier fish, or maybe fusiliers. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:14, 29 March 2021 (UTC)}

Thank you so much Guy, for that short but punchy essay on "Wikipedia disciplinary procedure and how it works for me". Martinevans123 (talk) 13:18, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

More information Horse goes into a bar. Bartender says: ...

Horse goes into a bar. Bartender says:
"Why the long face?"

Close

More information Anteater runs into a bar.Bartender says, "Want a drink"? Anteater says, "Nooooo". Bartender says, "Maybe you'd like a sandwich." Anteater says, "Noooooooooooo". Bartender says: ...

Anteater runs into a bar. Bartender says, "Want a drink"? Anteater says, "Nooooo". Bartender says, "Maybe you'd like a sandwich." Anteater says, "Noooooooooooo". Bartender says:
"Why the long noes?"

Close

More information Rabbi goes into a bar with a frog on his shoulder. Bartender says, "Where'd you get that?" ...

Rabbi goes into a bar with a frog on his shoulder. Bartender says, "Where'd you get that?"
Frog says: "Brooklyn ... They're all over the place."

Close

More information Three-legged dog goes into a bar. He says: ...

Three-legged dog goes into a bar. He says:
"Ahm lookin' for the man that SHOT MY PAW!"

Close

More information A skeleton walks into a bar.Bartender says: "Hello stranger, what would you like?"Skeleton says: ...

A skeleton walks into a bar. Bartender says: "Hello stranger, what would you like?" Skeleton says:
"A pint of beer and a mop, please."

Close

More information Phineas Gage runs into a bar. ...

Phineas Gage runs into a bar.
[Think about it.And if you still don't get it, click the link.] [1] References [1] I think I stole this one from Tryptofish

Close

EEng 01:08, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Sometimes the bar runs into you. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:11, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Didn't Nietzsche say something about that? EEng 01:14, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Nah. he was more concerned with other sharp objects. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:36, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

More information A neutron walks into a bar and runs up a tab. Ready to leave, the Neutron asks "What do I owe you?"Bartender says: ...

A neutron walks into a bar and runs up a tab. Ready to leave, the Neutron asks "What do I owe you?" Bartender says:
"For you, no charge."

Close

Argento Surfer (talk) 16:48, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• Bar jokes always remind me of Bernard Right-On. Considering the recent brouhaha it seems doubly appropriate somehow. I'd transcribe the joke in question here, but out of context it would undoubtedly cause some people fits of hand wringing/pearl clutching. For those who are intrigued, it's the opening joke to this performance. nagualdesign 17:22, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you so much for that link. Sheer brilliance. Long before Cold Feet and "Jazz Club". "Errrmm... not necessarily the kitchen....a foundry, or an engineering plant... something like that." Martinevans123 (talk) 18:33, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

That would be a brilliant caption for the (soon to be replaced) main image at Woman! Yeah, John's legendary. And coincidentally the spitting image of my friend, also called John and with a very similar and brilliant sense of humour, who died in 2018. nagualdesign 20:16, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

---

How about this non-bar joke:

More information "We've just found out that my grandad's addicted to Viagra""Oh no! How's your grandma taking it?" ...

"We've just found out that my grandad's addicted to Viagra" "Oh no! How's your grandma taking it?"
"Pretty hard"

Close

nagualdesign 20:50, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

• Pardon me, but even on my talk page there are limits. EEng 01:26, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

---

It seems that "clever" has become a dirty word on Wikipedia. I haven't seen the word so denigrated since bullies used to use it against people when I was at school half a century ago. I would remind those who think that they are being fashionable by supporting anti-intellectual populism that that attitude is so 2019. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:58, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Arrgghhh. Don't get me started. EEng is just too clever for his own good (especially in a place like this). It's a shame he's so witty, or most folk like me could just ignore him. But I'm not sure I'll ever see the day when he's "bullied". ClevorTrever123 (talk) 21:26, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

---

Followup: A Quaker conversion?

It suddenly occurs to me that maybe this whole tree thing was a transcription error: he wasn't saying tree, he was saying thee! He's become a Quaker! That explains everything! EEng 10:47, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

It was both. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:58, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Good one. EEng 20:44, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

• The Expert
• The Expert: Wrong Angle
• The Expert: Progress Meeting
• Any finally, this is what a real expert sounds like.

--Guy Macon (talk) 03:04, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

• "One day" last year in my old advisor's course on "Classic Papers in Computer Science", I took a few minutes to tell the class about how Konrad Zuse had invented an early retroencabulator but couldn't get funding to develop it before the war ended, sold the patents to Rockwell, competition from bubble memory eventually forced it off the market, etc etc and so on an so forth. Then I played the video (the last one on GM's list above). I had the pleasure of watching all the faces on Zoom as realization dawned. April Fools! EEng 03:29, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
• (edit conflict) Funnily enough, 2 new versions of the retroencambulator sketch have showed up in my recommendations over the past week. I saw the original a few years ago and was amazed that no one fluffed their lines - not that you'd be able to tell without comparing! So the first thing I thought about when I read your post above was prefamulated amulite. (For the sake of completeness, here's the other version.) nagualdesign 03:34, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

  I find most of the me-too versions not so good, but I like this one because Ms. Explainer comes across as genuine even if Mr. Introducer is somewhat wooden (although there's a certain charm there too). There's another one that's appeared recently -- quite extended with a lot of new material and a skilled pitchman -- but I can't find it now. EEng 04:36, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

  Here is one without the annoying American accents. ^{(...says the Guy who lives where the TMZ crosses the Orange Curtain...)} "Fog to cloud, cloud to cloud, and cloud to cirrus cumulonimbus stratus cloud communications are available as standard!" --Guy Macon (talk) 05:26, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

  That's it! That's the one! Oh, Guy, you idiot savants on the spectrum are so handy to have around! EEng 06:03, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

  If anyone doesn't quite understand any of those videos, I'd be more than happy to explain them. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:33, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

  Serial Number 54129, please stop egging EEng on. ^{SubjectiveNotability} _{a GN franchise} (talk to the boss) 15:47, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Hello! I just saw your last message on the Santos Dumont article discussion and I'd like to bring the discussion her, if I may:

I took a long time working in the Portuguese article (that currently is featured thanks to my and more editors efforts) and articles like João Goulart (this one was hard, since it needed expansion in both languages and I had to cheat my way with Deepl). On the HBO work, did you found time to watch? It seems really close with his history (considering all the time contracting due the small number of episodes) but of course, I can't suggest it as a source. But is really well made, some moments are directly brought from his books and all the crew had to master French, English and Spanish. I just waved a little of the Portuguese version from this source in the original article and tomorrow I will start with this bilingual work.

I don't know how to deal with the English article thanks to the "heavier than air" subject: personally I like the interpretation that the airplane had "several fathers" or paraphrasing a talk that Dumont had with Edison: "this science have so many contributors that how I could invent and patent anything for real?" --in "O que eu vi..." (1918) Dumont even highlighted that the new generation should learn about the researchers that came before his generation and died while pursuing the dream of flight. I understand that the US aviation industry took some time to take off due some legal issues, while the "open source" Demoiselle made the European industries advanced quite fast.

But anyway, Santos Dumont, together with Ayrton Senna, is such an object of national proundness here in Brazil (even if just a few bothers to learn about their history) that the article could turn into a "editions war" quite fast ---and today we really need something to be proud of...

Seems that two of the works in your collection is up on Internet Archive, what is great to references: Wings of Madness and Man Flies.

Thanks, Erick Soares3 (talk) 01:29, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

This is probably the third or fourth time I've had to apologize for having made no progress at all on this, though I continue to be determined to make the English Wikipedia article as good as can be. He's a wonderful figure and deserves to be fully recognized. It's going to be a huge project, though, and I'll need to devote six months to it, which right now I just don't have. Clearly there are conflicts among the sources, and many (including most of the newest ones) are in Portuguese, which I neither speak nor read. Maybe I'm crazy to think I can take this on. But perhaps together we can ... when I find the time.

I haven't looked at the HBO special, because I assumed it's in Portuguese only. Is it in available in English as well, or with English subtitles? It's looks like an excellent production.

I am very impressed with the pt.wiki article – so much new material, so many excellent photos! But I'm confused. One of the photo captions refers to two men as "great-grandchildren of Santos Dumont". Did he have children??? EEng 07:30, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

@EEng: Is okay! I completely agree that he deserves to be more recognized and the Portuguese language sources are an interesting case because many biographies are criticized for its lack of historical care. The first work to be acknowledged as complete is "Wings of Madness", but it also raised controversy on the representation of Santos-Dumont sexuality --it isn't a consensus among the researchers. On the links above, this one is mere 24 pages and the English side of this one is about 18. Other thing to do, maybe, would try to find English articles (like this) and newspapers from the time, since Santos was a pretty public figure in Europe.

The HBO production was filmed in Portuguese (scenes in Brazil), French (scenes in Paris), some dialogues in Spanish, European Portuguese and in English (scenes set in England and US), but is seems that they completely dubbed the series in English, what is quite sad, since the actors worked so hard to master these languages.

Well, thanks! I think you mistranslated: the term is "sobrinho-bisneto", something like as "newphew-grandcrildren", the grandchildren from his brothers and/or sisters.

Do you know any English language publisher and/or translator who might be interested on Santos public domain work? It seems that only My Airships received an English edition, while "O Que Eu Vi, O que Nós Veremos" never got any translations. Thanks, Erick Soares3 (talk) 14:07, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

"sobrinho-bisneto", something like as "newphew-grandcrildren" – My fault for using Google Translate. In English these are called collateral descendents. EEng 02:17, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

@EEng: I translated the legend in the image with this term. Is possible to watch the series there? 6, 50 minutes episodes. On the Wikipedia article, I think that it would need to be redone from start (is easier to retranslate than just reference what is in the article). I might attempt to bring this to any Aviation community on the Portuguese Wikipedia on this subject, because the language barrier is a problem --but your collection might also have something of interest to the Portuguese article. Erick Soares3 (talk) 02:42, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

The guy on the left is definitely related to S-D: . I guess those droopy eyes run in the family. EEng 05:10, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

@EEng:, well, Dumont's mother had this tired expression, while his father... Erick Soares3 (talk) 19:36, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@EEng:, since I recently finished the "Olympic Hero" book, I brought the subject about the English article in the WikiProject Aviation in the pt.wiki - is a good place to add your opinion and there's no problem if you write in English. Erick Soares3 (talk) 20:54, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

September

@EEng: hi again! Few days ago I found this rare audio and video footage during an award ceremony in France (receiving the National Order of the Legion of Honour). Sadly the quality isn't great and should be quite hard to find the original film - I uploaded here, on Internet Archive and Youtube due it's historical importance (probably the only recording of his voice) and it seems to be in public domain since the 1980s. I'm working a little more in the Portuguese article (Henrique Lins de Barros wrote a lot about him and his articles are online/creative commons) and I think that the only way for the English version is to translate from PT with DeepL like what I did with the far less known Luís Gama. I don't want to turn the article in a edit warring like it was in the past, but the Portuguese version already developed so much about his life and work... Cheers, Erick Soares3 (talk) 01:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

What tremendous work you're doing! And just by coincidence, I went to the library Saturday for the first time in almost two years (because ... you know) and renewed all my Santos Dumont books. And I thought of you! Now remind me -- what was the edit war? Just send me a link to the discussion or a diff to the start of the edits, or something. I'm very very busy and won't be editing much for another month, maybe, but at some point we'll use what you've done at PT to improve the article here at EN. EEng 04:14, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

@EEng: Hi, thanks!!! Since I didn't want to let the article die, I Boldly translated the entirety of the Portuguese page to English (diff). I know that the articles aren't supposed to be replicas from each other, the the PT version was so developed that I just went for it even if it was tiring and kind of hurt my fingers hahaha - everything that the English version had, the Portuguese had with more information and sources.

On the edit war: it probably was a thing from years ago, but is on "Dumont vs Wright Brothers" discussion - I personally think that his discussion is quite boring, because everyone only thinks about this and never learns who Dumont really was (but I believe that I managed to source everything on this matter).

Now, with the updates/translation, I've finished with 310 inline citations and 53 footnotes explaining/giving context. On the books books, good! I think that would be necessary to link "{{sfn|Hoffman|" ("Wings of Madness") on the English version and do the same with the English language part of Olympic hero book. By now, only the article Open Source Philosophy and the Dawn of Aviation is completely in English - and gives some contrast on the development of aeronautics in the US and Europe ("patent and monetize everything" vs "open source and "steals" anything that could be useful for your project"). I'm only worried if happens to someone revert everything, but I have the work saved offline.

I even brought the death certificate (it was adulterated to occult his suicide) to the Wikisource and I'm transcribing this Cc-by-3.0 article by Henrique Lins de Barros - his research is superb, but I think that only this really short book is available in English (in another article Barros gives a lot of good motives of why Dumont should be thought as an scientist - but we just don't think about him in this way even if he was brillant).

On a final note, Neil deGrasse Tyson even praised him in a Letter to Brazil in the Brazilian Portuguese version of Letters From an Astrophysicist. Thanks, Erick Soares3 (talk) 01:08, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Some days ago I also converted the List of Santos-Dumont aircraft into a table. Could you see if in your books if there any image from the Amérique? And in there are, could digitize it and send to Commons? Could you also look for any reference to the Fatum balloon? A few Portuguese language sources says that Santos Dumont designed it as a passing note, but I couldn't find it in any more reliable source - only that he flew 3 times on it according this Cronology. The cabangu website have a lot of public domain images from SD (much supplied by his family) and I have already sent some to Commons. Erick Soares3 (talk) 03:13, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Well it's just terrific what you're doing. Still, though, I'm very very busy. Here's what I have on the shelf for when I get to this:

• Alberto Santos-Dumont / texto de Henrique Lins de Barros. Barros, Henrique Lins de.
• Desafio de voar : brasileiros e a conquista do ar, 1709-1914 Henrique Lins de Barros.
• Santos-Dumont, "o pai de aviação." Villares, Henrique Dumont.
• Santos-Dumont and the conquest of the air, tr. by Luiz Victor Le Cocq d'Oliveira. Napoleão, Aluízio, 1914-
• My airships; the story of my life. With a new introd. by Sir Peter Wykeham. Santos-Dumont, Alberto, 1873-1932
• Man flies : the story of Alberto Santos-Dumont, master of the balloon, conqueror of the air / Nancy Winters.
• Wings of madness : Alberto Santos-Dumont and the invention of flight / Paul Hoffman.
• Santos-Dumont; a study in obsession. Wykeham, Peter.
• Santos Dumont, inventor Barbosa, Francisco de Assis, 1914-

(I don't read Pt but my boyfriend's Brazilian.) When the time comes there may be photos in some of those, and in fact there are many, many books on S-D that I have access to which aren't listed above because they're in Pt -- but I could still look through them for images. Also, I recently ran into THE CONQUEST OF THE AIR: THE SANTOS-DUMONT AEROPLANE. Lees, Frederic. The Pall mall magazine, May 1893-Sept. 1914; London Vol. 39, Iss. 166, (Feb 1907): 130-134, which has a lot of good images. EEng 19:29, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Man flies? Is that a fashion statement? (Now you can tell me to zip it.) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:04, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

@EEng:, thanks! Well, I would love to read these books. By the sinopise, "Desafio de voar : brasileiros e a conquista do ar" is not just about Santos Dumont, but about all Brazilians who took part in the aeronautics development since Bartolomeu de Gusmão (who may be the first in recorded history to demonstrate a small scale hot air balloon model back in 1700s - at least from where the mostly authoritative sources goes (the legend says that he flew before the Montgolfier brothers, but there's no evidence to back this up)) until early 20th century. My Airships is the same in Wikisource. The article already connects with the Portuguese translation (non Public Domain, since the translator only died in the 1960s), but would be interesting to link the "Sfn" with the English version. The "Santos-Dumont; a study in obsession" was used as a source before I sent my translation, but only in a general way in moments cited by several sources - but the title is intriguing. The Nancy Winters work is in on Internet Archive.

If possible, could you ask for your boyfriend to read some of these books? I believe that they could also be quite useful in the Portuguese article.

Since THE CONQUEST OF THE AIR: THE SANTOS-DUMONT AEROPLANE. is public domain and just 4 pages, there's any way for you to digitize it and send to Wikisource? On the images: the list only needs are one for the Amérique and Nº17.

For now I will only foccus on the Wikisource article. I read so much to develop the article and to translate it, that my mind needs to take a little "vacation" from this subject haha

Finally, I hope to find a way for the Wikisource community to translate Dumont's 2th book and Barros article to English and maybe French - that would help to make these works more accessible.

Thanks, Erick Soares3 (talk) 14:42, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

The strength of our relationship (my boyfriend and mine, I mean) is division of responsibility: I haunt the library and write the Wikipedia articles, he scouts the farmer's marked and makes the moqueca. I could get him to sit still long enough to skim something for its general sense, but that's probably about it. EEng 15:11, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi again! A Chilean Museum has just released an Spanish language book about Santos Dumont (free download - official source). I also started to translate Dumont's second work at Wikisource. I'm using DeepL and while it isn't totally right all the time, I thought that it would be fair to make this work available in English (it was translated into French early this year). Erick Soares3 (talk) 17:36, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

What you are doing (the translation, I mean) is a tremendous contribution. Someday we'll really pull that article together. Regarding the Chilean book: does it have anything really new? EEng 17:42, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm not replying much here because my laptop almost can't handle your talk page. On the new book: I don't know (I'm planning to read it in the following days) - I only know that it is about his relationship with Chile. In general is hard for any new book to bring anything new to the table and we still need for a historian to write a biography about him (or at least something like what Walter Isaacson does). There's still a lot to discover about him (like the history of this balloon that, it seems, no biography talks about).

I have returned to this topic since in the last few days marked both the 149 anniversary of his birth and 90th years since his death. I have just did some edits in the article in both languages, including a topic on his mental health (with a 2013 and a 2022 English language articles). I have also found one about the 14-Bis, but it seems quite technical. Erick Soares3 (talk) 22:05, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Would you know about any publisher who would be interested on Santos Dumont? Researcher Rodrigo Moura Visoni translated all the known Santos Dumont articles, but he doesn't have the budget to publish it (is my opinion that this would should be available in Portuguese, English and French). As an example, he created a work about Augusto Severo, but his crowdfunding is far from the mark. Erick Soares3 (talk) 12:38, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Gosh, I'm really the wrong person to ask about this -- it's way too far from my area. Sorry. EEng 19:57, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

All right! Thanks! Erick Soares3 (talk) 16:07, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi again! I have spend the last few days working on the original version of Santos Dumont's experiments in Monaco and you may like to see it!

As a side question: could you see in your books if there's any use of Dumont's articles as sources? I'm attempting to gather everything on Wikisource (he entered in the Brazilian Public Domain way back in 1993) and I found that he wrote about 16 articles in English, French and German. Is not exactly for use in his Wiki page, but to compile everything for public access (apparently there's one here, but it is impossible to search). Erick Soares3 (talk) 12:49, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

That's one thing I can actually do. Bug me once in a while until I get the answer back to you. Also, I see you asked me earlier about photos of the Amérique, and I never answered that. EEng 13:36, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

All right! I already found out one from the Amérique. For your collection, I just found out a 1970s biographical 4 parts series (1, 2, 3 and 4). I don't know if there's anything new for the article here (I found out that Santos actually met Jules Verne, what is neat), but it seems an interesting reading (the author was also the first to reveal, back in 1944, that Santos had committed suicide) - but I can't find this article anywhere. This website have also preserved articles predating his death (1928 onward). Erick Soares3 (talk) 19:20, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Wow, those are great new discoveries. You're really "beating the bushes". EEng 20:43, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks and I think that you will like this one: someone restored, colorized and upscaled some videos from SD with AI. I have also found the original article that publicized Dumont's cause of death (there's nothing beyond you can read in the bios, but I have linked it in the footnotes for historical reference). Erick Soares3 (talk) 17:06, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

My god, those are FANTASTIC. In general I feel colorization falsifies historic documents, but here the results are so impressive I'll overlook my usual purism. Do you think there's any chance of getting that video released under a Creative Commons license? EEng 18:06, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Is really fantastic and this channel have even more restorations (including from this film). Since they had to reupload all the videos with a narration track to avoid demonetization, I don't think so. For much I would like to recover the original black & white public domain videos for Commons - once I attempt to contact Pathé (since they filmed the originals), but it seems that they don't have the videos anymore. This documentary recovered about 16 minutes of footage (including long thought lost footage) and my dream project would be a "Apollo in Real Time" style recreation for the Archdeacon prize. Erick Soares3 (talk) 10:57, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi again! I have just made an article for the balloon Brésil and you may like to see it (I wonder if it still is the smallest crewed balloon ever build or if anyone has surpassed it...). Erick Soares3 (talk) 11:00, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello again @EEngEEng! How are you doing?

I think that you will like those two new projects: Dumont's World is developing a new deep-researched book on Alberto Santos Dumont (the author has found out that the Nº9 airship is stored at the Smithsonian) and PetitDumont is a thematic shop at Santos Dumont with souvenirs, books, clothing... The Brazilian Air Force has also published a website to mark his 150th birthday (mostly in Portuguese, but there's a Spanish and English language videos) and 3 free e-books (I'm planning to read E o Brasil falava de Santos-Dumont..., a compilation of newspaper articles from the early 20th century, to see if it has anything new for his bio). Erick Soares3 (talk) 11:37, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Great photos! I appreciate your keeping me informed, and someday we'll partner up to expand and improve the treatment of SD on Wikipedia. I just don't know when that will be. EEng 14:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

You're welcome! Erick Soares3 (talk) 15:23, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

A trademark is a part of intellectual property, but it is not copyright. You can indicate trademark using {{Trademark}} if you want. But it being trademarked does not make it non-free from our point of view, otherwise we would consider images like our own logo (and derivatives thereof) as non-free. Dylsss^{(talk contribs)} 18:08, 1 May 2021 (UTC) See also c:Commons:Non-copyright_restrictions#Trademark_law and Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Trademarks#Use of graphic logos Dylsss^{(talk contribs)} 18:33, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Since I'm a retired intellectual property consultant I don't need any tutorials on the legalities, and I'm fairly well versed in WP's policies in this area as well; what I don't invest my time in is the minutiae of all our little licensing and permissions templates. But I know for sure that presenting the file (as you have) as simply CC-licensed, with no mention of the trademark status, is utterly inappropriate. Feel free to tinker with the templates about copyright or free/nonfree status to your heart's content, as long as the trademark status is acknowledged. While you're deciding what you want to do along those lines I've restored the current licensing. EEng 19:21, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

 Done then. Dylsss^{(talk contribs)} 19:27, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Beautiful. And without resort to violence! We should notify the media. EEng 19:31, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Look at this photo: Look at the size of the Bidens compared to the Carters... --Guy Macon (talk) 16:57, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Coming soon to a theater near you! The next great action blockbuster! The Incredible Shrinking President Or The Incredible Gigantic President

But if I could shrink former Presidents, or even shrink them down to non-existence, I'd definitely make other choices. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:00, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Ooh, yeah. I would enlarge a recent one so much that he collapsed into a quivvering, oozing mass under the weight of his own blubber.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  07:21, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Our distinguished visitors refer to . After all, who doesn't love a huge dick? EEng 19:47, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

My wife once asked me why I've never sent her a dick pic. I promptly sent her a photo of me giving my son a noogie. She doesn't ask me anymore. Which is good because the wide angle lens on my phone isn't wide angle enough. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:03, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

EEng, get off your lawn! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:11, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Re: "I don't think viruses have emotional attachment sufficient for them to feel spurned", what about THIS? --Guy Macon (talk) 16:49, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Lucky for me the UCOC doesn't consider viruses a protected class or we'd be at ANI right now discussing my 27th block. EEng 17:07, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Lest anyone forget, when someone asks to be called "tree" in a single Instagram video from 3 years ago then goes right back to "he" and "him" in all of their published work, not honoring that request will get you warned, and actually commenting on whether the request was serious will get you blocked. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1062#EEng ridiculing a BLP who may use neopronouns. :( --Guy Macon (talk) 17:53, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Spurn the spike protein. Or maybe spike the spurn protein. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:07, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

• Apropos nothing, POSA^[1] fans who don't have it watchlisted may enjoy the most recent addition there: . EEng 19:20, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

• EEng gives the best head. Tryptofish, get off EEng's lawn. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:31, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

• I put "spike" into the WP search box, and found Spike Chunsoft, which sure sounds like something that, it turns out, it isn't. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:35, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello, EEng! I thought you might find this item by Joe Schwarcz, connecting Gage to Dracula via David Ferrier, to be of some interest.—Odysseus1479 20:49, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

It's funny how some religious people think that if you denounce the soul as mythical, effectively 'removing' it, you'll turn into some sort of monster. Even today there are lots of devout Christians who believe that people without religion have no morals, as if the only thing keeping them from immorality is the fear of God's wrath. Notwithstanding the fact that there are many social animals that display moral judgment. The Golden Rule is pretty straightforward. nagualdesign 21:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

It was interesting reading. The connection from Gage to David Ferrier is an interesting one (maybe worth adding to the page(s)), although I think that the connection from Gage (the impalee) to Vlad (the impaler) is a stretch. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:34, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

maybe worth adding to the page(s) – Surely you don't think I missed that -- see Phineas_Gage#Theoretical_misuse. EEng 23:56, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

(1) Don't call me Shirley. (2) You expect me to read that thing? Shirley, you jest! --Tryptofish (talk) 19:16, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Seriously, I do like to think that, after all those years you and I and others spent hashing it out, the Gage article is something like 99 44/100% comprehensive; while one can never be certain just how much detail should be included on any one particular point, it seems hard to conceive that there's any relevant point that isn't at least touched upon, with pointers to where the reader can learn more if he wants. As one reviewer wrote about Macmillan's book: "... provides one of those rare occasions on which one can truly say that further research is not necessary." EEng 19:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Nagualdesign, but the fear of God's wrath is the only thing keeping devout Christians from turning into some sort of monster, right? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:51, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Seems that way. shudders nagualdesign 03:03, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

To be fair, @Nagualdesign, Christianity is scarcely unique in that respect—although it and Islam seem to put a peculiar emphasis on belief. AFAICT most other religions are mainly interested in regulating behaviour, leaving what’s in one’s heart of hearts to be judged at the Weighing-In (whatever form that is conceived to take). And while I’m a fan of the Golden Rule it has its limitations, insofar as our understanding of even our own desires—let alone others’—is imperfect.—Odysseus1479 02:34, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks for bringing this to my attention. What I never get over is how many articles (including this one) are clearly based on the WP article and/or Macmillan's Odd Kind of Fame, and yet nonetheless say stuff both those sources go to pains to falsify:
  • Gage was not laying track, just preparing the roadbed.
  • The "recording the event in his notebook" incident is probably fiction.
  • Not Boston Medical Surgery Journal but Boston Medical & Surgical Journal (a nitpick I realize, but I'm in the mood).
  • I know of no evidence that Gage "inspired" Ferrier's localization experiments.
  • Ferrier experimented on monkey and dog brains, not human brains.
  • Not Barnum’s circus. Not Barnum’s circus. Not Barnum’s circus. Not Barnum’s circus, goddam it!

For those who are wondering, Bram Stoker's reference to David Ferrier is likely (IMHO) simply due to Ferrier's notoriety as a vivisectionist; in the same breath he mentions Burdon-Sanderson, who was well known to the public for exactly the same thing.

Some years ago I spent a full week in London trying to find Ferrier's papers. I even tracked down the lawyers who had handled his estate. No luck, dammit. EEng 06:46, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Dear EEng,

Thank you for participating in the recent discretionary sanctions community consultation. We are truly appreciative of the range of feedback we received and the high quality discussion which occurred during the process. We have now posted a summary of the feedback we've received and also a preview of some of what we expect to happen next. We hope that the second phase, a presentation of draft recommendations, will proceed on time in June or early July. You will be notified when this phase begins, unless you choose to to opt-out of future mailings by removing your name here.
--Barkeep49 & KevinL (aka L235) 21:05, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

• Naturally my contribution was of the usual high caliber and insightfulness one can always expect from me. EEng 22:41, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

  With all those pearls you're constantly handing out it's no wonder that so many people tend to clutch theirs whenever you're around. nagualdesign 23:07, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

  I've heard it's the family jewels people tend to be concerned about. EEng 23:22, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

You somehow managed to be snarky to me, and be educational, and make me smile all at once in just a few words. In my world, you have earned this token of appreciation. 92.24.246.11 (talk) 17:01, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Our visitor refers to

Like they say, you can always tell a Harvard man. EEng 17:25, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

As they say. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:13, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Like I didn't know that. EEng 22:11, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Did you know... that EEng didn't know that? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:36, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

You can always tell a Harvard fish, but you can't tell lawnmower much. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:25, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm not a great fan of comma splices. Nothing wrong with sentence fragments in any but the most formal writing. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:32, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

I love forbidden punctuation. It makes everything funnier. —valereee (talk) 19:53, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

True comedians love the forbidden, the politically incorrect, tragedy ... my latest favorite series. Atsme 💬 📧 20:13, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello. It appears your talk page is becoming quite lengthy and is in need of archiving. According to Wikipedia's user talk page guidelines; "Large talk pages are difficult to read and load slowly over slow connections. As a rule of thumb, archive closed discussions when a talk page exceeds 75 KB or has multiple resolved or stale discussions." – this talk page is 683.1 KB. See Help:Archiving a talk page for instructions on how to manually archive your talk page, or to arrange for automatic archiving using a bot. If you have any questions, place a {{help me}} notice on your talk page, or go to the help desk. Thank you. 92.40.188.227 (talk) 15:18, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

There is some irony here in that this template also makes the page longer...CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 15:26, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, blocked IP with 18 edits! EEng 00:11, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Have you ever browsed through their contributions? They're a troll, who occasionally makes okay-ish edits, likely to disguise their trolling. Obviously a static IP as well, as their interests haven't changed over several months, with decent and trolling edits on articles in the exact same topic. They even tried to edit a WP policy page to say something very different in what appears to be a WP:POINTY edit, and then edit warred over it. Back in 2018, they used a dynamic IP, but are pretty clearly on a static one now, making their trolling easier to discern.

I recently broke my vow to avoid ANI for another IP who was making hundreds of edits to a noticeboard. I'm wondering if it's worth breaking again to end this one's tendentiousness. I've a list of trolling edits of theirs at User:MjolnirPants/sandbox#section_2 if you want to give it a read. I'm curious as to your thoughts on this. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:48, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

To be honest I've lost track of what we're arguing about, with whom, and I'll be traveling for a few days so I'm afraid you'll have to take the lead on this. But I'm behind you all the way . EEng 09:32, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

You are the technical wizard here so I thought it wise to ask you, I’ve asked this question to a sysop and their reply although plausible I still need a technical editor to answer this for me so yup, your name came to my mind first. You see my question is how do people dig really old diffs fast? I’ve seen people dig up diffs from 2009 and very fast as well, Is there a special technical or way of digging up diffs fast? For example if I warned an editor of UPE in 2019 or wanted to dig up other diffs pertaining their conduct and whatnot is there a special way of doing so? is there a script for that purpose? I barely can dig up diffs from last week, whereas some editors could dig up a diff from 2009 and relatively fast as well, how do they achieve that feat? Celestina007 (talk) 21:00, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

• The key is to have the sort of personality that nurses grudges and mentally rehearses revenge scenarios over and over. This cements the locus of the original humiliation or offense in the mind so that it's immediately at hand (mentally speaking) when the moment for payback comes.
  Seriously, there's no magic bullet, but one very powerful tool is the editor interaction analyzer , which works very well if you vaguely remember that you and X (or X and Y) discussed such-and-such, but you can't really remember when or where. Most talk pages (including ANI and other noticeboards) have search boxes, in case you think what you're looking for happened on a particular talk page. Both techniques take some practice before you understand their peculiarities.
  I hope this helps. EEng 21:23, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Exactly! The editor interaction analyzer , seems to be the tool they make use of. thanks for the explanation. Celestina007 (talk) 21:30, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Right, but don't discount the value of nursing grudges and mentally rehearsing revenge scenarios. You'll get my bill. EEng 11:02, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Lmao, how am I just seeing this. Celestina007 (talk) 18:51, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Wait...we're allowed to nurse grudges? Damn. —valereee (talk) 23:52, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Indeed we are. And orderlies are allowed to grudge nurses. In fact it's traditional. EEng 00:22, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

We're also allowed to nudge grouses, though our more environmentally-conscious editors may object. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:58, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

I think the changes you made were constructive but it would've been helpful to clear them in advance with ArbCom – the page does constitute instructions from the Arbitration Committee on rules in proceedings so ArbCom should probably know about changes KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 19:47, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

• My response would be that no doubt the powers that be are watching, but since you're an arb yourself that seems unnecessary. EEng 21:27, 31 May 2021 (UTC) P.S. Have you visited The Museums lately?

  Does this mean that if I edit those pages, ArbCom changes how it operates? Neat. ^{SubjectiveNotability} _{a GN franchise} (talk to the boss) 14:12, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

  If only it were that easy. EEng 18:38, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

	The Surreal Barnstar
	― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 14:09, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

• And to what do I owe this largesse? EEng 15:19, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Way back in September 2012, when I created Wikipedia:Don't throw your toys out of the pram, I thought a stereotypical toy-chucking unblock request would be "This is evil censorship and bullying. I am right and they are wrong. You cannot allow lies and slander to appear on Wikipedia articles!". Today, I hear Trump's response to a two-year Facebook ban : ""They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this censoring and silencing, and ultimately, we will win. Our country can't take this abuse anymore!"" Can I sue the Orange Oaf for plagiarising my cliches? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:12, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

• Independent creation. EEng 20:15, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

• No; spontaneous generation. — Neonorange (Phil) 23:36, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm more interested in how Frisco Coakley is doing.  Mr.choppers | ✎  04:13, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, being a bear of very little brain I am unable to grasp the reference. See also WP: FRISCO. EEng 09:29, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

I sort of went down a rabbithole after reading the essay Ritchie mentioned: This user created a series of articles about his pet rabbit Frisco Coakley. I would prefer discussing this animal to thinking about the last four years.  Mr.choppers | ✎  22:00, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

I have always referred to the town as "Frisco", ever since I read it being referenced in a Swedish book about American Truckers when I was eight. Proudly a rube.  Mr.choppers | ✎  22:13, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

That's funny, when I was eight I read an American book about Swedish truckers. Must be some kind of series: "The Boys Adventure Book of Foreign Truckers". EEng 22:50, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Ha! I'd like to buy that one. It must be very fun to author those books, getting to ride along with truckers in foreign locales. My cousin just got her commercial trucker's license in Sweden, after a career as a lunch lady (all true) and I can't wait to shadow her at work for a day.  Mr.choppers | ✎  01:04, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

From this edit

This is, so wrong,

Sweet Jimbo, hear my prayer!

Back down! Back down!

Sweet Jimbo doesn't care.

(Adapted from the opening song in the film Les Miserables ) --Guy Macon (talk) 12:20, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Bring me editor 2.4.60.1

Your block is up and your parole's begun!

You know what this means

- yes, it means I'm free

NO!

It means you get your yellow ticket of leave

You are a vandal

- I made a minor change

You violated BLP

- I fixed a typo I sweaaaaarrrr ^{InspectorNotability} _{a GN franchise} (talk to the boss) 14:18, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Do you hear the editors sing

Singing the songs of angry men

It's a story of the editors that must be sung again

When the beating of their chest

Reaches into their ear drums

You know it's definitely the time that we have won. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:23, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for attending this year's EEng Home for the Bewildered Literary Recital and Talent Show. On your way out remember not to feed or provoke the inmates. EEng 14:41, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
  • In conclusion: Burma Shave. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:53, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

    Admin of AN

    Doling out the blocks

    Ready with the G5 when he finds the socks

    Pages he protects

    AfDs are closed

    When it's time to unban he will vote !oppose

    Glad to give a friend an unblock

    Doesn't cost him to be nice

    But nothing gets you nothing

    Every !support has a little price

    GeneralNotability (talk) 20:06, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

    Admin of AN

    Doling out the blocks

    Ready with the G5 when he finds the socks

    Pages he protects

    AfDs are closed

    When it's time to unban he will vote !oppose

    Glad to give a friend an unblock

    Doesn't cost him to be nice

    But nothing gets you nothing

    Every !support has a little price

    GeneralNotability (talk) 20:21, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

  He's so nice, he posted twice! :) --Guy Macon (talk) 20:54, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

  I may have spent this afternoon listening to the 2012 adaptation's soundtrack - pretty good, though I prefer the original Broadway cast recording and don't love how the movie really cut down Overture/Work Song. GeneralNotability (talk) 00:20, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

  Those are very good, but nothing compares with the Key & Peele version. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:24, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

  Thanks for posting that. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:49, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

  Thanks for posting that. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:49, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

  Thanks for thanking GN for posting that. EEng 00:12, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

  Thanks for thanking GN for posting that. EEng 00:12, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

  Thanks for correcting that per the number of indents. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:29, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

  Thanks for correcting that per the number of indents. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:29, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

  Bite me. EEng 19:50, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

  Yum yum. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:57, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

  Yum yum. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:57, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

  Double your pleasure, double your fun... --Tryptofish (talk) 20:03, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

comment removed — Ched (talk) 08:50, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Some bug no doubt. Certainly not my intention. EEng 11:24, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

OK - thank you. I didn't think it was intentional, but I've had a bad couple days of having to fix, strike-through, re-edit, change, and apologize for things, so I just wanted to make sure I didn't somehow screwup again. — Ched (talk) 11:32, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Don't worry, we cool. EEng 20:23, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

I saw this and this. Had myself a really good laugh! Thank you. Princess of Ara_(talk) 09:13, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) British translation. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:24, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Martin! EEng 15:47, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Lool! I went wild on the publish but in my fit of laughter. Obasanjo's internet is also not helping matters! Princess of Ara_(talk) 10:13, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

I assume you were LMAOing. EEng 15:47, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

I think there may be a joke there in or on the offing. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:56, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes! Haha! Princess of Ara_(talk) 18:28, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

• If somewhere on commons there's a photo of a Persian (Persian cat or, I suppose, Persian person) with a veil on its (or his or her) butt, then the caption could be veiled-ass Persian. Unfortunately, looks like File:Dalilah bailando danza oriental en la Esfinge.jpg is an Egyptian, not Persian, gal. EEng 18:04, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

"I crossed the street to her house and she opunned the door". Thomas John Woodward, 81 (talk) 18:11, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, veiled-ass Welshman hardly fits the bill. EEng 20:27, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Oh, I don't know... E. L. Bow 123 (talk) 20:55, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Just wanted to say thank you, for being one of the few users who seems to have some common sense in the sea of bullshittery that is our modern culture. The moronic, absurdist, toxic (and sometimes frankly, dangerous) culture that seems to be permeating everything, everywhere, including Wikipaedia.

I know it can be a thankless task sometimes, being just so utterly BASED and reasonable on Wikipedia talk pages. Especially since most readers dont even know talk pages exist, let alone understand the complex politics going on behind the scenes by the unbased and cringe editors and admins. So just know that someone, somewhere is genuinely thankful that users like you exist, who are a little beacon of hope that, maybe, all signs of intelligent life are not yet lost on this planet. 92.41.96.241 (talk) 03:20, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Shit, the tape ran out ... OK, can you say that again? Please speak directly into the begonias. EEng 03:56, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Did I write that the way you wanted? I can log out again if it needs to be changed. Levivich 20:03, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Fool! Use the secure channel! EEng 23:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Your comment as User talk:Guy Macon brought to my attention that, somehow, we did not have a redirect for the wonderful phrase hanged on a comma. I've created the redirect, so, let no one say that nothing good has come of all this. I was going to make a joke there about whether any Wikipedian has ever been "indeffed on a colon", but decided it best to not compare execution to blocking on a page where tensions are high. I'm sure, though, that the answer is yes. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 19:48, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) By strange coincidence, I was just listening to a podcast about Casement yesterday, and intended to look him up here, but had forgotten his name. Thank you for making this. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:12, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

For those of y'all in the audience who write actual articles, I do wonder if there's room for a Trial of Roger Casement / R. v. Casement. You've got an interesting legal angle, interesting historical/political angle, and just a dash of sex to keep things interesting. (And as a bonus you get to deal with two DS areas at once!) -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 20:30, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

• List of people done in by auxiliary parts of speech and various punctuation marks? EEng 00:12, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

  Does it include punctuation marks not used qua punctuation marks? If so, I assume the list would be 99% programmers. Tom Scott, for instance. Or just about anyone to ever edit a MediaWiki template. (For me it's always the pipe in {{#if:{{{1|}}}}} that gets me.) -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 00:40, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

  Notwithstanding that Mariner_1#Cause_of_the_malfunction is my all-time favorite and the granddaddy of them all, I think we better restrict ourselves to natural languages lest we be overrun. EEng 01:00, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

The indomitable Lynne Truss has been working on something like this already, I think, writing of the Manutius family in Eats, Shoots, & Leaves that

I'm sure people did question whether Italian printers were quite the right people to legislate on the meaning of everything; but on the other hand, resistance was obviously useless against a family that could invent italics.

scs (talk) 15:42, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

I often choke on an undercooked Oxford comma. Does that count? "Hannibal's Lectures 123" (talk) 16:00, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Now that's an artful choke! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:55, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

• I was just reading Roger Casement again, and came (ahem) across this:

  the British government secretly circulated some excerpts from Casement's journals, exposing Casement as a "sexual deviant". These included numerous explicit accounts of sexual activity. This aroused ...

and I was really bummed that the next words were "public opinion". EEng 21:15, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Your talkpage is very long, please consider archiving it. Joseph2302 (talk) 00:35, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

• Curiosity got the better of you, did it? EEng 00:55, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
• There's a novel idea. nagualdesign 00:46, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
• What, only 204 sections spanning 2+ years? I have seen worse. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 00:49, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

  Jesus, I cut the thing in half not three months ago . What do these people WANT from me? EEng 00:55, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

  I hate housework. You make the beds, you wash the dishes and six months later you have to start all over again.

  — Joan Rivers

• Not when I'm recently single, thanks . Belle (talk) 15:52, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

I find myself in the position of defending an editor at ANI whose edits are (for the most part) productive, but whose attitude pisses people off. You (and TRM for that matter) might relate. Paul August ☎ 01:16, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Huh. I don't know any editors like that. Anyway, in the spirit of giving the guy another chance I randomly grabbed a few things from his contribs, which turned out to be (fixing a minor stylistic flaw by making the sentence factually incorrect); (worsening the flow in obedience to an idiosyncratic idea); and finally (misusing a mathematical term) just before (pontificating on mathematics). From these I conclude your efforts may be misplaced. Sic.

Look, if he'd acknowledge that he's got problems, and agree to listen, that would be one thing. But he's just laying low until it blows over. He can always get back from an indef by speaking up. EEng 02:55, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Well I might be all wrong about this. But I agree acknowledging their problems and agreeing to listen—not an easy thing for some editors (know any of those?)—is what they should do here. Although, of course, just silently changing their editorial behavior would be sufficient for the purposes of the encyclopedia. But that won't fly now. ANI needs its pound of flesh. If some sort of recognition of their problems and a willingness to try to fix them is not forthcoming, an indef will likely follow. Paul August ☎ 11:57, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

And we don't even get one of those sketchy court artist's impressions of the accused. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:12, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

I said at ANI that TRM certainly should have handled this better, and been more forthcoming about what was wrong with Autod.'s edits, but I guess it's like this: there's IDHT, there's supercilious self-certainty, and there's not knowing what you're talking about. My experience is the community will tolerate up to two out of three, but not all three, which is what we have here. EEng 13:53, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Hmm... I wonder which two I should try to get away with. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:09, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm certain that I don't know what I'm talking about and I won't let any of you lesser beings tell me otherwise. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:39, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm laughing that you'd think I have any idea how that whole Rube Goldberg machine manages to keep plugging along and would therefore be able to check anyone's work. I have been trying to figure out how to simplify instructions there, but between the number of them and the number of times they're transcluded to various places, it's a bit daunting. —valereee (talk) 12:37, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

You completely misunderstand. I'm using you as a sort of stress test -- if you can understand the instructions, anyone can.^[FBDB] EEng 14:02, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Every village needs an idiot. —valereee (talk) 15:03, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

"O let us love our occupations, Bless the squire and his relations, Live upon our daily rations, And always know our proper stations." EEng 15:10, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

"And swallow all our mastications. Burma Shave." --Tryptofish (talk) 17:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Wait, I'm supposed to belong to a village? I'm always the last to know these things...Now I have to figure out which village needs me... ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:29, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

You can join my village. It's a big job for one little old lady in Cincinnati. —valereee (talk) 17:14, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm sure I'd run you out of a job if I did. My capacity for idiocy knows no bounds:

• When I was a teenager, me and a group of friends stole a dump truck from the local landfill and took it for a drunken joyride. Past the police station.
• Later on in my teens, I gave a police officer the name "Bong T. Drueler". To be fair, that cop was even more of an idiot, because he believed me.
• I once hip-fired a Light Fifty. While standing on the roof of a building. With my back to the edge. In combat.
• My wife once asked me if her outfit made her look fat, and my half-listening ass responded "Yeah, a lot, actually," because I assumed she was asking me how I was liking the book I was reading.
• I've brought my kids to the park with no pants on. On more than one occasion.
• I once sent EEng's talk page to the printer at my (former) job.

I think I'm less of a village idiot and more of an Ecumenopolis idiot. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:15, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Was it already your former job at that point, or did it become so as a result? EEng 19:18, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Heh. I actually answered that question in my edit summary. I was able to cancel the job before it finished spooling. Of course, I probably could have gone home, slept in late the next day and then taken an early lunch, and still had time to cancel it before it finished spooling. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 19:45, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Umm... thank you for your service?

About your kids in the park, were they pantsless, or were you? (Or both?)

Thinking about your mishaps, I remember that when I was a young child (I mean, fish), my mother took me to a toy store wanting to buy me a ball to play with. She walked up to a salesman, and asked him: "Do you have balls?" True story. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:12, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, I'm glad someone appreciates my service. There were a bunch of bastards trying to kill me for it for a while there.

The kids were pants-less. I haven't stepped out of my house without a pair of blue jeans on since 2006, excepting a few occasions on which I was -horror of horrors- force to wear a suit.

In Iraq, it was fashionable for a bit to teach young ladies how to properly greet an American soldier. There was a day when me and two buddies cornered our interpreter to ask him what "Allah kabeg dek," means, as several young women had greeted us with the phrase, but young men never seemed to use it.

Much to our amusement and (and a bit to our chagrin), rather than a straightforward translation, we got a brief lesson on the effects of speaking unfamiliar English phrases with a regional Arabic accent, and an impromptu education in rural Iraqi toilet humor. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 19:40, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I ran that phrase through Google Translate, and they think the language of it is Malay. Interesting, sort of, but not an RS. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:25, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

It's English, I assure you. You've got to say it out loud to understand. Preferably loudly, and in public. You'll know you're saying it right if a woman or a well-dressed man agrees with you.

Don't trust google translate. It will take a guess if it doesn't recognize the words you've entered. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:35, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Facepalm . You got me! But once Google decided that it was Malay, they simply translated it into the standard kind of blessing. Perhaps Google has beg dek envy. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:48, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Wait a minute? Did young Iraqi women really say that to you? Apparently, I'm the idiot here. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:52, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Cum, I mean, come to think of it, pronouncing it out loud sounds like Borat is saying it. Vaan nice! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:55, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

It's hard to believe I've let myself be reduced to this. EEng 22:07, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

No, it isn't. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:10, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Didn't you several years ago swear to turn your back on Wikipedia, never to return? What happened to that? EEng 17:32, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Ha! Several years? No, it was more recently than that. Actually, I've also said repeatedly that I don't wanna be an admin. But maybe it would be worth changing my mind about that too, just so I can join the club and block you.^[FBDB] --Tryptofish (talk) 17:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

At this point, admins who haven't blocked me form the more exclusive club. EEng 17:40, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

And we all know what Groucho Marx said about joining clubs! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:24, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

OK, that's it. YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN! EEng 21:06, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, you gotta say it about that loud! ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 21:27, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey, kids, get off of my lawn! —valereee (talk) 22:52, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Which is best answered by this —valereee (talk) 23:04, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm generally more inclined to answer with this. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 05:22, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Regarding your comment in this discussion, I honestly had considered that possibility after someone else raised it to me. I asked Bishonen to take a look days ago, and didn't notice she was on vacation until after hit "save". But before reverting myself and asking someone else about it, I had a brief conversation with an employee who had seen the edit that prompted me to go to Bish, and she mentioned that he might just be a very conservative gay person, offended not by the thought of the "Gay agenda", but by nominally straight characters and people "intruding" into gay space.

I don't think that's actually the case, though. Not sure if that's what you were getting at, but seeing your comment reminded me of that. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 05:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

It was strictly a case of Methinks the lady doth protest too much. I'm intrigued, however, by your reference to "an employee". Your employee? You discuss your WP editing with your employee? Is that part of their assigned duties or what? EEng 05:45, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

I've got to be honest, the last virulently homophobic guy I met IRL ended up married to a another man, so I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

About my employee: I'm the lead software developer, in charge of hiring my own team. She's technically a coworker, but I can fire her if I want to. Of course, she's the only one of us with any qualifications in UI design, so that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

As for WPing at work: No, it's nothing official. She just happened to be sitting with me while we waited for a rather large chunk of code to compile. We'd be chatting about WP, so I hopped on while we waited. That was her first experience with Wikipedia's processes, unfortunately, and she was not impressed (I've tried to stress how uncommon that sort of thing is, but you know how first impressions are).

She also emailed me this link shortly afterwards. Although I've seen the joke before, I think it's one that bears sharing. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:37, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

I dated a few US Marines in the 1980s so I know a closet case when I see one. Nice boys when you got them alone, though. EEng 16:24, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

I couldn't speak to that, but I can analogize to "Christian women", from whom I learned that repression can be a great enhancement to the libido, and a powerful motivator to treat one's partner right. I can certainly recognize a "closeted libertine" as it were from a mile off. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:39, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) A co-worker? At least she's not a cow worker. ... I know a closet bovine veterinarian when I see one! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:19, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

"The repercussions of not providing adequate foraging and scratching opportunities to hens are that agnostic behaviors increase." - I'm guessing they meant agonistic behavior, but it made me wonder: what does agnostic behavior in hens look like? Levivich 03:25, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, according to agnostic behaviors include "head pecks, steps, pushes, threats, and chases", so that's what you can expect when the seeds of doubt are sown in the coop. I suppose you want us to believe you just happened to be reading Chapter 8, ("Enrichments in Cages") in Egg Innovations and Strategies for Improvements.

Anyway, that rooster did deny Him three times, or something. Also:

• "The hens in our charter flock turned me from chicken agnostic to borderline obsessed."
• "But what does the American Egg Board think? ... 'We are agnostic in that respect,' said Dresner, the group’s spokesman."
• The Agonism and the Exorcism
• Agnostic behavior in an attorney^[1]

EEng 04:28, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

First JS Mill, now Clarence Darrow? We need to renew our wedding vows before you start quoting Bradbury or e e cummings to me. And of course no one just happens to be reading Chapter 8, ("Enrichments in Cages") in Egg Innovations and Strategies for Improvements. I happened to be reading Chapter 7 and went too far. Levivich 13:49, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

"If they ate it avidly while stamping their feet and scattering it here and there, the augury was favorable... "Maybe they could predict bitcoin movements? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:46, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Is every egg sacred, too, or just the Roman ones? Levivich 15:55, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Well. Hobby farmers. Of course they "used to be chicken agnostic". —valereee (talk) 16:07, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Every egg is estimable, no ovum otiose. EEng 16:22, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Please note: Islamic miracle chicken .... or not. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:36, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

User:EEgg. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:52, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Zombie Easter Egg? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:55, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Or just playing chicken. (Actually, I didn't know that it was a game bird.) --Tryptofish (talk) 19:12, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

"You put yo left arm out.... yo right arm too!" Martinevans123 (talk) 19:48, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I count on Martin to be my wing-man. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:55, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

You got it dude! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:59, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I abide. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:06, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

See also: The picture I posted here. (But first, cross your legs.) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:12, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi there. My edit brought about a fix to the RfC listing entry; your revert caused it to break again, along with the full listing (see WP:RFC/A from that point down to the bottom of the page). Nothing was falsified: it's a brief statement of the matter at hand, mostly copypasted from what you had already written. Please undo your revert so that the RfC listings are no longer broken; if you like, you can omit the signature but the timestamp does need to stay. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:48, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

There really is something seriously wrong with you. Pasting my signature onto something that I did not write is falsification, even if it's "mostly copypasted" from something I actually did write (well, half of it anyway – the other half was stuff you just pulled out of your ass) .

Every interaction I have with you is over your apparent belief that editors should twist themselves into pretzels to accommodate some broken bot, or that an article must omit something it ought to include because someone's spellchecking kiddiescript can't handle it, or something like that. Editors and readers outrank software. It exists for us, not we for it. Fix the software, don't harangue people to bend to the robot's mindless demands. Get that through your head. EEng 01:26, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

I don't suppose you can calm down and take a deep breath, please? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:32, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

That was after calming down. He's lucky I didn't reach through the internet and throttle him. EEng 14:11, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

If I need to calm down and take a deep breath, I dress up as Cleopatra and rub strawberry jam all over myself. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:32, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Wait a second, Ritchie. Did you write that, or did someone paste your signature onto something mostly copypasted from what you had already written? EEng 14:15, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Of course I didn't write that. I prefer raspberry jam. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:16, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Strawberry jam?? Very over-rated. ""He said, "D'you want it pasturised? Cause pasturised is best," She says, "Ernie, I'll be happy if it comes up to my chest."". Martinevans123 (talk) 14:18, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Jam's overrated in general. Just eat fruit. —valereee (talk) 19:41, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Ooo no! A Wiki Called Malice?? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:57, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Just another day on this talkpage. EEng gets himself into a jam, and Martin milks it for all it's worth. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:55, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Hahaha. And don't forget our own resident Ritch Admin Pharaoh. --Peter Carter-Ruck Off 123 (talk) 19:05, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

• Point of fact: the RfC processes (including maintenance of the listings) are undertaken by Legobot (talk · contribs), except for the WP:FRS notifications which have been devolved to Yapperbot (talk · contribs). If you have a problem with how Legobot operates, please direct your comments to the bot operator, who is Legoktm (talk · contribs). There is absolutely nothing that I can do to amend its code, so don't punch out at me for trying to explain where problems lie. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:49, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

  You must have some kind of hi-tech exoskeleton that block entry of any kind of clue. I've known you for years, and every time you "explain where problems lie", you always, automatically, implicitly, and unfailingly blame humans for not conforming to some technical stupidity, as you did in your OP here and are now doing again. It's incredible. I have no "problem with how the bot operates", you have a problem with how it operates, you are upset that it's not doing what you feel it should do, but for some reason you came here to complain to me about what it was doing, and wanted me to fix it. You go talk to the bot operator. I don't give a shit. Do you get it now? EEng 22:07, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

• Okay, now we've discussed my sexual preferences for jam, the serious point. I've met Redrose in real life and he's a nice guy, and not the sort of chap to bite your head off, so I think "the other half was stuff you just pulled out of your ass" is misguided. More to the point, if you haven't seen the recent drama on ANI and Arbcom (and to be honest those of us who have wish we hadn't), there's a bit of a push to take WP:CIVIL a bit more seriously, and I'd hate for you to be caught in the crossfire. Even though I know that a "you have been blocked for personal attacks for 24 hours / 1 week / 6 months / 47 years / the age of the universe" message here from an obliging admin doesn't defuse drama, it diffuses it. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:06, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

  Wholly concur that Redrose64 is one of the most moderate, reasonable and collaborative editors, not some kind of mutant cyborg Arnie on steroids. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:17, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

  He can be all those things and still have the stubborn blind spot I've described. EEng 22:07, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

  Ritchie, he fabricated a post (out of stuff he made up -- i.e. "pulled out of his ass") and forged my sig to make it look like I had written it, all because he couldn't sleep at night knowing that some bot's output had unbalanced braces. Did you miss that? I'm glad he's sweet in person but stupid sweetness is not enough. He has yet to give even the slightest acknowledgement of that wrongness of what he did, so instead of talking to me how 'bout you try to get him to do that? Good seeing you, BTW. EEng 22:07, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

• OK, I went to look at what happened, and here is what I think. EEng wrote the top part of an RfC, the part that appears on the list(s) of active RfCs, with his signature and timestamp at the end. It's an incredibly verbose and lengthy RfC introduction an RfC introduction written in EEng's unmistakable style. As a result, when the bot listed it on the RfC list page, the lengthy RfC introduction appeared with a correct link to the talk page where the RfC is. As is supposed to happen. But it was difficult (maybe impossible, but I didn't try very hard) to find EEng's autograph at the end of the introduction. As is not supposed to happen, not to mention a grievous loss for everyone who breathlessly waits to see EEng's wonderful username.

So Redrose added some text at the top of the talk page section, to create a brief RfC question, and put EEng's signature at the end. And the bot did whatever it did at the RfC list page.

And EEng objects to having something written by someone else, but over his signature, when he, in fact, did not write it. I'd object to that, too. EEng was right to take offense at it, and Redrose should not have done it that way, even though Redrose was acting in good faith and sincerely believed that he was making the RfC work better.

So, Redrose, please don't do that again. You can ask the RfC-initiating editor to make it shorter, or you can just let it go and not worry about. The world does not come to an end if the RfC list page looks messy. (Probably, fewer editors will respond to the messy-looking RfC, which has a certain poetic justice to it.)

And EEng, calm the fuck down.^[FBDB] You're usually such a sweetie pie.^{[dubious – discuss]} And nobody needs a yelling match. And Ritchie is right about the recent spate of ANI clusterfucks over being nice and not using "fuck" in a sentence. It wouldn't be worth having an ANI experience over that. I've just spent the last few days dealing with a couple of those ANI threads, and I'm getting too old for this shit. (I used to be an old fart, but I ran out of gas). --Tryptofish (talk) 22:57, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time. For the record, it's not that my RfC intro was long, but rather that it incorporated a collapse box containing the discussion of the prior proposal, and that confuses the bot (details on request). EEng 00:23, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Needless to say, but I'll say it anyway: you're welcome. No need for any bot-ly details. And it's good to know that you did not, in fact, suffer a loss of blather control. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:12, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Now I'm wondering if you're going to rip Shibbolethink a new one for moving your AE comment, giving it a new section and adding a ping. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:07, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Don't. Them's the rules. Comment in yer own seck-shun. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:14, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

I knew it. They're all in it together!! Winstonsmith123 (talk) 22:17, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Not to mention the Cabal. No, really, don't mention it! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:20, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

I came across something that might be useful to the curator of museums.

From our article on Catshark: "Catsharks are ground sharks of the family Scyliorhinidae. They are one of the largest families of sharks with around 160 species placed in 17 genera. Although they are generally known as catsharks, many species are commonly called dogfish..."

--Tryptofish (talk) 19:43, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Is a ground shark anything like a land shark? EEng 20:11, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, if you ground it, you are less likely to be shocked by it. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:18, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

But the land shark is, indeed, a swell shark. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:23, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

For those unfamiliar with the topic, in a typical pod of sharks, there are (1) the positive (or "hot") shark, (2) the negative shark, and (3) the ground shark. Together, they form what is called a "plug". When met by another group of sharks, those other sharks are called a "receptacle". The combination of a plug and a receptacle results in a "circuit". --Electric fish (talk) 20:40, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Sounds great!! Enjoyed our delicious shark pod, why not try our tasty Lobster Bisque?? -- Bikini Whale 123 (talk) 20:45, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

But don't be fooled by a rubber eel. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:50, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Ooooooo. Does it taste anything like a rubber chicken?? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:57, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes. It goes well with a Rubber Biscuit. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:00, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Ah yes. The original's always best. "You want fries with that?" Martinevans123 (talk) 21:05, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

What a great recording that is! And from 1956, the year I was born. (Sorry, that's not funny, but I just wanted to say it.) --Tryptofish (talk) 21:17, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Ah, lovely. A great year for canals and goulash. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Age before beauty, cutie! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:33, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

I thought this was odd, then I looked at your user page to try to see why this happened. I failed to see anything. Does this mean something to you? Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:25, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

The description matches Wikipedia:Queen Elizabeth slipped majestically into the water. Why the search algorithm thinks that is EEng's profile is a different question. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:44, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

It scans the page until it gets to User:EEng#Queen Elizabeth slipped majestically into the water, and that's the first short desc it runs into. Could have been worse -- it could have picked up deranged sociopath (from the images after the big blue box in User:EEng#You might say he fucked the country over). EEng 21:42, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

"The stuff about goalposts and "misdescribing" is just shit you made up."

• When someone asked "if we have a speedy consensus to remove the above mentioned phrase", you set the goalpost by saying "Give it a couple of days." So we gave it a couple days, something closer to a week, during which there were no fresh objections to the edit... at which point you reverted the edit. Having met passed the original goalposts you set was not sufficient.
• in your reversion summary, you said "A couple of people saying they don't get the point isn't enough to remove it". It was more than two people, and they were saying more than that they don't get the point. It was a consensus in a discussion that you were choosing to misdescribe.
• You addressed me as "pilgrim" in that reversion summary, in a manner that reflects the way racist John Wayne would use in on-screen personas to address those he felt superior to . When I took offense at that, you seem to have reckoned that you had found a way under my skin and chose to, like some second grade playground bully, use it repeatedly to refer to me in a little harassment campaign.

I ask that you retract the claim about me making shit up. I warn that if you continue your harassment campaign, I am willing to take it to ANI. --Nat Gertler (talk) 12:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

• "Pilgrim" could easily be seen as addressing you as a farsighted explorer and adventurer, an honorable name although with puritan overtones. And call John Wayne a racist to his face, double dare you! Randy Kryn (talk) 14:49, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

  "... get off your horse and drink your milk"..... or, well, something like that, anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:56, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Martinevens, with your racist film clip you are obviously mocking me because I stutter, you goddamned mean son of a bitch. If you continue your harassment campaign I am willing to take you to ANI (where I will buy you a drink...hell, why not, a round for everyone). Randy Kryn (talk) 15:08, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Well Gee, howdy, pardner! Make mine "Milk of amnesia"! Martinevans123 (talk) 15:20, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

[for those humor impaired and/or Code Enforcement Officer wannabbes, 1) what the heck are you doing on this talk page?, 2) watch the whole John Wayne clip linked by Martinevans which explains my code-unenforced language.] Randy Kryn (talk) 22:41, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Uh-oh, looks like we may now have some "discussion board" progress... maybe someone's looking for a "megablock"? ^[FBDB] Martinevans123 (talk) 19:12, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Our visitor refers to :

• Couple is an elastic term. In Islam, pilgrim is title of honor. And what does John Wayne's racism have to do with anything? In the old days racism was all the rage, just as indignant demands for apologies are today. Now begone before I denounce you as an Islamophobe. Pilgrim. EEng 15:03, 1 September 2021 (UTC) BTW, second-grade has a hyphen.

I made the mistake of looking (but at least not commenting) at ANI per the notice below, and I had the misfortune of looking up higher on the page, where there is a now-closed thread about Trypophobia. And it contains a whiny comment about some talk page posts from several years ago: However, some users, such as one editor called Tryptofish, took the time to mock the concept of the disorder, and tried to have the image enlarged. The ping didn't go through to me, so I only saw it today, after closure. Apparently, I'm an SPA who adopted a name similar to the page name so that I could make fun of it. (In fact, I responded to an RfC, and asked about the strength of sourcing for the page. Obviously, I needed to be canceled.) Thanks for letting me vent. Anyway, it seems that WP has long been a place for people who get offended by stuff that shouldn't have offended them so much. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:13, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Tryptofish - Tryp!!!! I am seeing a whole new side of you, now. You have been holding back on me. I was wondering where your name came from. Now we know the truth. Bad fishy!!! --ARoseWolf 21:26, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

And here I thought that "Trypophobia" was fear of me! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:29, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Meh, one person's fear is another person's magnet --ARoseWolf 21:31, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

You said it. Fun for all the family! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:35, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Pilgrim, I mean EEng, I actually did comment there after all: . OK, pilgrim? --Tryptofish (talk) 23:33, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

File:Coppertone.jpg

• I feel there should be an essay in this, or maybe a Burma-shave -- Levivich? EEng 00:14, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

  We must be neutral in ratio
  Avoid any locus non-apropos
  Forget not Millet's mixed love mileau
  We can't just focus on Butt, you know
  Burma-shave

  Levivich 04:05, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

• You're like a jukebox, thanks! EEng 04:59, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
  • But, but, but.... --Tryptofish (talk) 21:17, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
  • Is nothing sacred? Norman Buttkiss 123 (talk) 22:51, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
  • Wikipedian esotericism^{[Not to be confused with Western esotericism or The Esoterrorists]} is notorious , and a debate about whether an article about the Butt–Millet Memorial Fountain focuses too much on Butt or too much on Millet is a pristine example. Another example: the ongoing debates at List of catgirls about whether Hermione Granger, who was once turned into a cat-like creature but only temporarily, should be listed, which has now blossomed into an ANI thread. Levivich 19:58, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
    • Only on Wikipedia! Some people are pains in the butt, and others are insufferably catty. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:10, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
    • Hey bitches. Time ya'll took a week off to Detox! Things can get a bit juicey, can't they. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:17, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

I have asked you before to stop being aggressive yet you choose to continue being belligerent there with disrespectful and unnecessary wording like "your own damn fault". I am asking you again to stop that and to be civil. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:17, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) I frequently check on the background behind these sorts of complaints, and far be it from me to object to requests for EEng to be nicer to people, but – good grief! This is over a fringey claim, where the talk page discussion has, by my count, six editors telling SW to back down, and zero agreeing with him. Looks to me like it's his own damn fault. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:56, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

"Yes, and some people claim that there's a woman to blame, But I know it's my own damn fault." Martinevans123 (talk) 18:32, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

I asked a question on an article talk page. Only this user addressed the matter with an abundance of personal scolding. That's what I wrote about here, not article content. On that page, I have already given up on the question I asked, yet the scolding only continues and worsens. If several of you wish to enable and support and reinforce that kind of behavior, that's your prerogative. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

I refuse to be an enabler. EEng should stop with the scolding. He sounds like Miss Snodgrass (whoever that is). Martinevans123 (talk) 13:43, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:47, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

I think you need to take your irony detector in for recalibration. EEng 15:33, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Well, you know, there's irony and then there's scrap irony. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:38, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Goddam it, I was going to make a scrap-irony joke right after dinner and here you beat me to it. EEng 22:41, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Hark! The Master speaks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:53, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Saw this and thought of you the Museum. Atsme 💬 📧 14:47, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Why exactly did you think of me in particular? EEng 14:53, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

The answer is in your museum - think back to Dr Chrissy's passing. Atsme 💬 📧 16:54, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Hey Atsme, good to see you around again! As for the dirty underwear, I don't get the joke, either, so please do tell. Of course, EEng doubtless knows his way around the dungeon museum better than I do. But what I remember from Dr Chrissy's passing was that EEng commented that the impalement image Dr Chrissy had put on their page looked... something, in the context of the note about his being deceased. Of course, if you're just telling EEng to change his underwear... --Tryptofish (talk) 20:41, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

My apologies for the last response but we had a frightful storm yesterday evening which knocked out the power for nearly 6 hours. For easy reference, see EEng's "Museum of I Shouldn't Laugh but I Did". It's self-explanatory. Atsme 💬 📧 19:21, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

See, I got it (almost) right! (Frightful storm, eh? That's what happens when I smite someone!) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:44, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Ah yes, Archangel Trypto. I see you more as Angel Summoner to Atsme's BMX bandit (...soon to be replaced by "Gymkhana Girl"): . Martinevans123 (talk) 21:58, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

I've been called arch from time to time (but no, my name is not Archie). But I can honestly say that no one (except, maybe, my mother) has ever called me an angel. I'm finally moving up in the world! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:08, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Did you know ... * that Prince Ginger and Princess Rachel of Zane named their possible future King sprog after The Drells' lead singer? True story. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:21, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

I am rarely ever smitten by celebrity as it appears Harry & Meghan must be, and even less so smited, at least not in the way Tryp presented it (no offense intended to the god of thunder & lightening). My most recent smitings have been brought on by this seemingly never ending move with all the accompanying memories. Oh, and the last link I included in my post will take you to an interesting bit of music history. Atsme 💬 📧 21:08, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Ooh yes, thanks for that. I now feel strangely liberated. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:24, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

...for writing WP:Principle of some astonishment. I just stopped myself from writing "The House of Lords passed the Pains and Penalties Bill 1820 in 1820." Sunrise (talk) 08:12, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

I am but the humble initiator of that page; many hands helped. You may wish to peruse User:EEng#User_essays_worth_reading for further ways of wasting your afternoon. EEng 13:39, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

I started a discussion on the talk page. You're welcome to join in if you are interested. Talk:Glossary_of_engineering:_A–L#Reverting_the_split Ergzay (talk) 03:24, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Hey, how did you get access to Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion? It's from Yale University Press theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 18:39, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Yale, huh? Oh, I'm gonna be watching for the reply to this one! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:30, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Trypy, my friend,was it everything you hoped for? --ARoseWolf 17:37, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Nope, our curator just ignored my dig at him. And this from someone who once went ballistic when I admitted that Yale has better architecture than Harvard does. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC) (Harvard, '78)

Not sure what you mean by "how did you [i.e. me, EEng] get access", because I don't recall ever having seen the title before. But if there's something you need from it I can get it. EEng 00:51, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Ah, right, that's my mistake. I'm looking for anything about Cwmhiraeth that's in there, although I'm told it's not much. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 00:53, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

OK, just to be clear, you're looking for stuff about Cwmhiraeth, not Cwmhiraeth, right? Because I don't think there will be much about the latter in there. It may be a week or more, but I'll take a look and see what's there. EEng 04:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Cwmhiraeth the hamlet is just an innocuous little place that sprang up as part of the development of the woollen industry in Wales in the nineteenth century. I doubt you will find much about it online. My only association with the hamlet is that a relation used to live there and I liked the evocative name. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:10, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Ridicuous. Everyone know the Hamlet's in Denmark. EEng 05:42, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

And here I thought that hamlet is what you put on a hamlet and cheeselet sandwich. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

I am looking for stuff on Cwmhiraeth, yeah. Although it would seem that the jig is already up. I'm still open to any stuff if you've got it, though, thanks! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 06:46, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Apparently, our Dame Judi is related to Hamlet. Well, to his personal astrologer anyway. Just sayin' Martinevans123 (talk) 09:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

What in the world are you talking about? EEng 13:16, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

If only I knew. You're the one who mentioned something rotten in the state of Denmark. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:20, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Martin's just giddy because Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion both have enough vowels in them to be pronounceable. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Eeeewww no, Carmarthenshire has those nasty Saesneg vowels in, look you. You must mean Sir Gaerfyrddin! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:15, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Bowellism and vowelism? Tripe! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:36, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

We're at your service at TripeAdvisor! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:49, 20 October 2021 (UTC) I made a real effort to choose the least objectional bowel link there, honestly.

Very good! No one wants to see the sausage made with natural casings. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:54, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

They say it's pork, but we know different: . Martinevans123 (talk) 21:42, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Now that looks like quite the Welsh rarebit! (Or a blushing bunny?) --Tryptofish (talk) 21:51, 20 October 2021 (UTC) Insert joke about spotted dick here. But don't insert a spotted dick here. And now, get off EEng's lawn! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:55, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

• Tripe Advisor meets Blather Control . EEng 21:11, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
  • #"We can't just focus on Butt, you know." --Tryptofish (talk) 21:17, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

As someone who recently had a panic attack at level D of the Widener stacks, I was happy to discover that Wikipedia agrees on their cavernousness. JBchrch talk 16:59, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Next time remember your compass, sandwich, and whistle. EEng 17:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Hey, that's great to see, and so very well put (as usual).

I love your user page, eg. the Museum of Stable Geniuses. In fact, it rivals only Martin's talk page for that welcome combination of a) sanity-restoring absurdist humour and b) the potential for making an editor completely forget the reason they went to the page in the first place. JG66 (talk) 04:27, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

The credit is all yours. The sad part, though (and take this from me), is that you will probably never do anything that good ever again in your life, and when you're 70 you'll be saying "Did I ever tell you about the time I coined the Wikinym vexbysterang?" And immediately people will remember that they promised to change the catbox or pick up their mother-in-law at the airport, and before you know it the room will be clear. EEng 05:23, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Funny, I was just thinking along those lines myself – it's far more satisfying to have helped inspire WP:VEXBYSTERANG than anything else I've done here. Even more so now that you've (most kindly) afforded me a voice on your Hall of Fame/Shame, Smoke and Mirrors. Seriously. JG66 (talk) 05:47, 21 October 2021 (UTC)