Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities

European Union

Taiwan

Progressive Tax and Robin Hood

Mussolini's ministries

Mussolini government notes that Mussolini himself served as the minister for several portfolios (as well as serving as prime minister), but always ad interim. Some of them were short-term, e.g. he was interim public works minister for five months in 1929, but others he retained for a long time, e.g. he was interim interior minister for seventeen years. Why was he merely interim for years? Seems odd that he would neither appoint someone else, nor appoint himself as permanent, in these long-term cases. Nyttend (talk) 18:46, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

Perhaps Mussolini thought it would create a bad impression if, next to serving as Head of the Government, Prime Minister, and Secretary of State, he also appointed himself (other than, out of necessity, as an ad interim measure) to ministerships. People might even have whispered he aspired to dictatorial powers.  ​‑‑Lambiam 12:00, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

Or they might have called him a poohbah. Chuntuk (talk) 11:43, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

I tried to read and understand page 51 and prior from here but failed miserably....Mussolini’s ‘sub-government’: the interim government in which he held an average of six portfolios from a total of between 16 and 17, from a minimum of two to a maximum of nine. Something to do with the Fascist Grand Council vs. council of ministers? fiveby(zero) 18:13, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

This means that in the interim govt. there was a total of 16 or 17 ministerial seats/portfolios, of which Mussolini held between 2 and 9 at any time, averaging around 6. MinorProphet (talk) 17:11, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

Are there reliable sources to prove that Brazil was involved in the Atlantic slave trade?

If there are reliable sources to prove that Brazil was involved in the transatlantic slave trade, then should the latest edit request on Talk:Atlantic slave trade be implemented? ~2026-15009-97 (talk) 14:44, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

I can't upload sources on Wikipedia because of CAPTCHA. ~2026-15009-97 (talk) 14:45, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

Brazil was a colony of Portugal until 1815 and only declared independence in 1822. The trans-Atlantic slave trade into Brazil was outlawed in 1831. The trade volume in the intervening nine years, during the first three of which Brazil was engaged in the Brazilian War of Independence, is probably not enough to earn Brazil admission to the Hall of Infamy of major Atlantic slave trading nations, based on trade volume. Denmark, the last and least of those mentioned as such, had been hauling enslaved Africans for centuries before the trade was banned.  ​‑‑Lambiam 16:27, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

This source (which is lengthy) is pertinent. Extracts:

"More than two million African slaves were imported into Brazil between 1800 and 1850, three-quarters of a million or more during the 1830s and 1840s when the trade was entirely illegal under the terms of the Anglo-Brazilian treaty of November 1826 . . . and the Brazilian law of 7 November 1831".

"Finally, however, the British government’s decision in 1850 to permit the British navy to enter Brazilian territorial waters and ports in pursuit of illegal slave ships, in blatant violation of Brazilian sovereignty, was largely responsible for persuading the Brazilian government to enact new legislation against the slave trade and for the first time effectively to enforce it."

An associated AI summary reads "Between 1822 and 1831, Brazil imported a high volume of enslaved people, estimated to be several hundred thousand, as the trade remained active immediately following independence."

See also our article Slavery in Brazil: "Brazil was the last nation in the Western world to abolish slavery, and by then it had imported an estimated 4,000,000 slaves from Africa. This was 40% of all slaves shipped to the Americas."

Hope this helps. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 17:39, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

The "lengthy" source, Brazil: Essays on History and Politics, qualifies as a reliable source. It is not possible to deduce a numerical value directly from the data as presented for the volume of the slave trade to Brazil during the period of nationhood, but this must have been close to, possibly even over, one million, an order of magnitude more than Denmark's volume.  ​‑‑Lambiam 12:18, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

The American Cyclopaedia (1883) p. 217 gives the number of slaves emancipated at the partial abolition of Brazilian slavery in September 1871 as 80,000. Alansplodge (talk) 21:40, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

Christopher Tolkien

I've been reading The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien and we're at the stage where nearly all the included correspondence is to his son, Christopher, who is in the Royal Air Force. As our article mentions, Christopher joined in July of 1943 and in January 1944 was sent to South Africa for training. In January 1945 he was commissioned and stationed back in the UK. It's not clear if he ever saw active duty, in the sense of combat missions, etc. against an enemy. Is Tolkien's wartime timeline typical? Without meaning to besmirch his service in any way, the training seems very long. Would it normally take pilots 18 months to go from the enlistment centre to active duty, especially during a war? Our article at Military_recruit_training#United_Kingdom provides a few lengths of training, none of which last so long. Matt Deres (talk) 14:47, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

Christopher did not see combat. He finished training in early 1945. It is well documented that he arrived back in the UK on March 31, 1945. Germany surrendered on May 8, 1945 (again, well documented). There were no operational deployments from his station (Tern Hill) between those dates as the war was pretty much over. There was concern he could be deployed to the Pacific, but that didn't happen. ~2026-91009-6 (talk) 11:47, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

This article, Pathway to Pilot - Second World War from the RAF Museum says:

The time taken to qualify as a pilot could vary. At the start of the war it could be as little as six months (150 flying hours). On average it took between 18 months to two years (200-320 flying hours).

So yes, it seems to be within the norm for that stage of the war. Note that RAF Tern Hill was home to various training units, so it's possible that Tolkien Jnr was still learning his trade at the war's end; if not, he was flying with one of the communications flights based there, using light transport aircraft rather than warplanes. Alansplodge (talk) 19:41, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

Some more detail from Addenda and Corrigenda to The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide Revised and Enlarged Edition (2017) Vol. 1: Chronology:

27 January 1945: Tolkien has a constant cough, and has to thaw a frozen cistern. Having qualified in his training, Christopher Tolkien is commissioned in the general duties branch of the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve, with the rank of Pilot Officer on Probation (Emergency).

February 1945: Christopher Tolkien is posted back to England from South Africa, arriving home on 31 March. He will then be posted to Tern Hill, Market Drayton in Shropshire.

28 June 1945: Christopher Tolkien transfers to the Fleet Air Arm, the air service of the Royal Navy. He is now in the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve.

27 July 1945: Christopher Tolkien gains the rank of Flying Officer (War Substantive) in the Fleet Air Arm. It is feared that he will be sent to the Pacific, as the war with Japan had not yet ended; in the event, he will not see action.

Alansplodge (talk) 21:22, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

Well done - thank you very much. I suppose it takes the time is takes, but that timeline must have been a huge burden. At that time, new models of aircraft were under constant development. By the time you'd spent two years learning to fly an X, they'd already be obsolete and on to model Y or Z. Matt Deres (talk) 13:57, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Most of the training would be done using basic trainer aircraft (such as the de Havilland Tiger Moth) and advanced trainers (usually the T-6 Texan) learning the general skills involved. Only the final part of the course would be on the frontline aircraft you had been selected to fly, which would be at an operational conversion unit. In the early part of the war, pilots were expected to complete their operational training with their frontline squadrons; this worked if the unit was not heavily engaged, but in 1940, it led to pilots being thrown into combat part-trained resulting in heavy losses. Alansplodge (talk) 14:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Euromissile Crisis

I am trying to look for information on the Euromissile Crisis on Wikipedia. It is currently a redlink and most roads of searching leads to NATO Double-Track Decision. What connection do the two have? Further, as a meta question, should there be an article on the Euromissile Crisis specifically? ✶Quxyz✶ (talk) 00:59, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

"What connection do the two have?" is potentially answered by the second sentence of that article. --Golbez (talk) 02:10, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

I don't understand and I am asking for help. The wording is unclear for me. ✶Quxyz✶ (talk) 02:17, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, google "Euromissile" "SS-20" site:en.wikipedia.org doesn't find anything else and NATO Double-Track Decision does not explain well. Try this article. From reading that source there probably should be a Euromissile Crisis stand-alone article. fiveby(zero) 02:26, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

That article is a lot better at explaining the actual crisis than ours. I'll probably write up the article once I am familiar with relevant literature if someone doesn't beat me to it. Thank you! ✶Quxyz✶ (talk) 02:40, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Should be Euromissile crisis lowercase 'c'? Watchlisted both anyway. fiveby(zero) 02:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

According to Google Ngram viewer, Euromissile Crisis has been more pupular than Euromissile crisis since 2018. The Cuban Missile Crisis is also captialized. I am going to start off writing as Euromissile Crisis but an RM down the line can change that. ✶Quxyz✶ (talk) 14:42, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Google Ngram Viewer gives me a different result, also since 2018.  ​‑‑Lambiam 16:45, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

"Euromissiles" (SS-20,Pershing II,GLCM) seems another popular way to allude to the crisis. Think i'll merge the current Euromissile article into HOT (missile) once the crisis article is started to make way for a redirect? fiveby(zero) 17:08, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

I am not really too sure. Anyways, I have started a draft here. ✶Quxyz✶ (talk) 21:04, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Here is another article: "War Scares and (Nearly) the End of the World: The Euromissiles Crisis of 1977–1987". The viewpoint presented in this article is rather different: instead of a problem with a lack of dominance of NATO missile power, it was the Soviet side being scared by the NATO's actual dominance that might have triggered a war, laying a connection to Able Archer.  ​‑‑Lambiam 09:29, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

fwiw I apologize for my snark. Hard to stay mad at a fellow Iowan+hurricane fan. --Golbez (talk) 14:53, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

No worries! This definitely was not my peak of intuition and I think that the Double-Track article is just generally poorly worded on top of that. ✶Quxyz✶ (talk) 14:58, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

It is poorly worded. Even that second sentence of the lead is ambiguous: "NATO planned to deploy more medium-range nuclear weapons in Western Europe after the Euromissile Crisis." Does it mean the planning took place after the crisis or that they were planning to have a crisis first and then deploy the weapons? — Kpalion^(talk) 09:03, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Sutton Coldfield derailment (1955) photograph

The "Report On The Derailment which occurred on 23rd January 1955 at Sutton Coldfield" (see Sutton Coldfield rail crash) tells us:

a photograph was taken of the train from the Four Oaks station footbridge... The photographer was Mr. A. Reason, an engineering apprentice, who lived nearby and took a great interest in railways

Was the photograph ever published? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:49, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

van Wart, died in or near Birmingham 1903

Who was Mr van Wart, who was the first person cremated at Birmingham Crematorium, on 3 October 1903, and was he related to Henry van Wart? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:47, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

The surname is unusual, and Henry van Wart had two sons, so considering the location and year it is very likely that this Mr van Wart was one of his sons. Apparently, these sons were named Irving and Henry Jr. (see here, page 16, under "Birmingham, England"). Irving is said to be "of New York", leaving Henry van Wart, Jr., as the prime suspect.  ​‑‑Lambiam 12:07, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

HvW Jnr died in 1878: d:Q136388141. Maybe a grandson, but I am looking for sources to confirm. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:22, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

In fact, Henry seems to have had at least five sons, although there is some confusion as to the exact number of his children; see Talk:Henry van Wart (if anyone could resolve that I'd be grateful).

None of them, nor the grandchildren listed via (which may be incomplete) are shown as having died in 1903 (although some lack dates). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:34, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

I now have a news clipping (Birmingham Daily Post, 3 October 1903, p.8) mentioning the death of George van Wart around this time:

The Late Mr. George Van Wart.—In our brief reference to the deceased on Thursday last, we described him as the last surviving member of his family, instead of his generation. We are reminded by Mr. Wilfrid Van Wart, a grandson of Mr. Henry Van Wart, that he and two brothers and two sisters, with their children, are still living to perpetuate the family.

George was presumably the son, born 1817, of Henry, and if so was described a "Wine & Spirit Merchant, of Birmingham, England".

Unfortunately the BNA scan of the Thursday, 1 October, edition is very poor and effectively unsearchable. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:00, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

Freeman's Exmouth Journal - Saturday 03 October 1903, p 4 col 4, Deaths, "VAN WART, - September 29, at Clearwell, Portland Avenue, in his 86th year". DuncanHill (talk) 13:12, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Birmingham Daily Mail - Saturday 03 October 1903, p 3, col 4, "Funeral of Mr George Van Wart". "The funeral of Mr. George Van Wart, a member of a family which once played an important part in the commercial affairs of Birmingham, took place this afternoon. The proceedings were of a very quiet character, and the mourners, Mr. and Mrs. Reginald Parker, Mr. Oscar Van Wart, Mr. R. B. Van Wart, and Mr. W. V. W. Kell, drove from the Union Club, Colmore Row, to the Crematorium, Perry Barr, whither the copse had been removed from Exmouth, where death took place last Tuesday. In accordance with Mr. Van Wart's wishes his remains were cremated. This is the first ceremony of the kind that has been performed at Perry Barr." Will email this and the Exmouth to you forthwith. DuncanHill (talk) 13:28, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:35, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Just in case people find this in the future and wonder, W V W Kell was Washington Van Wart Kell, seems to have been on several company boards around Birmingham, related to both the Van Warts and the Muntzes. The Union Club building still stands, architect was Yeoville Thomason, Mr Reginald Parker worked for Nettlefolds, later Guest Keen and Nettlefolds, as secretary and later director (this connects with the Joseph Chamberlain family), Mrs Reginald Parker was a daughter of William Van Wart, the Birmingham merchant and friend of Washington Irving. The Chamberlains, as regular readers will recall, owned Kynochs which made bullets for Boers and Britishers during the Boer War which Joseph Chamberlain started and David Lloyd George opposed. DuncanHill (talk) 14:22, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Henry Van Wart, George's father, was both a friend and brother-in-law of Washington Irving, having married the latter's sister (indeed, George was one of Irving's nephews and nieces for whom "Rip Van Winkle" was written, on a visit to Birmingham).

There are several Williams in the family; where does yours fit in? Is he William Van Wart (1813-1868), brother of George? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:52, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

The Yellow Scale: Self-portrait or portrait of Baudelaire?

In The Culture of Yellow: or The Visual Politics of Late Modernity, Sabine Doran (Director of the German Program at the University of California, Riverside) writes that The Yellow Scale depicts Charles Baudelaire. She doesn't mention the prevailing consensus (which is stated without caveat on Wikipedia) that it's a self-portrait, so it's not like she's actively proposing an alternative, but I found an article on an art blog (https://artschaft.wordpress.com/2020/06/04/the-journey-within-frantisek-kupkas-self-portraits/) saying "there’s still some debate whether this portrait shows the Czech-born artist himself or Baudelaire or even someone else." I can't find any scholarly sources for this, but I wonder if the picture should be conclusively referred to as a self-portrait on the article.

Here's the relevant passage from the Doran book:

"The Czech painter based his portrait on one of Nadar’s daguerreotype photographs of Baudelaire. The poet, imagined as a sick man on an Oriental lounge chair, appears tortured by the spiritual malaise he himself named ennui, with one hand clasping a yellow book (the reading of which appears to have just been interrupted) and the other languorously clutching a cigarette. Baudelaire literally embodies the yellow tonalities that reveal his sickly appearance. Kupka captures Baudelaire’s deteriorating health (due to frequent exposure to alcohol, opium and hashish) as a kind of self-fulfillment of his negative vision of lust and decay, which became the reality of Baudelaire's own life, darkened by sickness and despair. Kupka mixes a realistic portrait of the poet with an abstraction in monochrome yellow, saturating, as it were, with the narrative of decline that encapsulates the artist, his psychological and physiological state, as well as his work (the yellow book)." (p.71-72)

Not that it couldn't be both (Self portrait as Charles Baudelaire), but IMO it does resemble the Baudelaire photo a lot more than it does Kupka's other self-portraits (he has a beard in all the rest, and in several self-portraits painted in the years after The Yellow Scale his hairline seems perceptibly less receded). WP:NOR of course but the intuitive plausibility does seem important.

Would appreciate any insights/sources. I'm also curious how to even mention the Doran source in the article when it doesn't directly present an opposing viewpoint but neglects to mention the prevailing one. Thanks!

Kaspar Hauser (talk) 06:50, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Here is how someone (non-RS, but knowledgeable) describes the controversy:

It is generally believed that this painting was inspired by an 1855 daguerreotype photograph of the French Symbolist poet Charles Baudelaire, whom Kupka greatly admired. In fact, there’s still some debate whether this portrait shows the Czech-born artist himself or Baudelaire or even someone else. Those who believe that The Yellow Scale shows a depiction of the French poet get easily swayed by Baudelaire’s tumultuous life and end up enmeshing it with Kupka’s art. They see decay in this mass of yellow, illness and encroaching death in the blue-green tones of the skin, and warning in the yellow book as embodiment of Baudelaire’s literary vision of lust and decadence.

The text, especially a later passage, implies that the author adheres to the viewpoint that this is a self-portrait.

The Nadar daguerreotype is more likely this one than that linked to above.  ​‑‑Lambiam 13:20, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Online copy of Methodism in Dorset: A Sketch, by John S Simon

Methodism in Dorset: A Sketch, by John S Simon: published by James Sherven, St Mary St, Weymouth in 1870.

A hard copy is held in the library of the Dorset County Museum in Dorchester UK.

Hoping to find an online copy. I've tried archive.org, hathitrust, etc.

Thanks. Shtove (talk) 10:21, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

I couldn't find an online copy either, but Library Hub Discover shows there are further hard copies in York Minster Library and the libraries of the Universities of Birmingham, Cambridge, Liverpool and Manchester. It also lists a 44-page John S. Simon pamphlet, published the year before your book, called Methodism in Dorset, Revised by the Author and Reprinted from the Methodist Magazine. Perhaps the 1870 work is an expanded version of the 1869 one? The article in the Methodist Magazine can be seen here, pages 335–344 and 431–443. --Antiquary (talk) 10:54, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Yes, very helpful, so thank you - that link is new to me and does contain most of the details I wanted ... but not the crucial detail! I'm trying to confirm the presence of Olaudah Equiano at a particular place and time, and the secondary source from which I started has clearly relied on the information in the magazine but without clear citation, and yet asserts that extra detail that I imagine is included in the 1870 publication. Shtove (talk) 10:07, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

I found Researching Methodist History which may be helpful? Alansplodge (talk) 18:23, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Where to find secondary sources for Internet addiction disorder

Now, I've been mostly editing Wikipedia by mostly correcting grammar. Now, I want to help out in bigger ways. For example, the page for Internet addiction disorder says that it relies too much on primary sources, but where do I find secondary sources? Angrythewikipedian (talk) 17:24, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Many of the references in our article Internet addiction disorder are of secondary sources. Here are a few more:

• Zhang, L (2009). "The applications of group mental therapy and sports exercise prescriptions in the intervention of Internet addiction disorder". Psychological Science (China). 32 (3): 738–741.
• Salicetia, Francesca (June 2, 2015). "Internet Addiction Disorder (IAD)". Procedia – Social and Behavioral Sciences. 191: 1372–1376. doi:10.1016/j.sbspro.2015.04.292.
• Trigo, M (August 13, 2021). "Internet addiction disorder: When technology becomes a problem". European Psychiatry. 64 (suppl. 1): S641. doi:10.1192/j.eurpsy.2021.1703.

However, it is not immediately clear how to use this. The first complaint slapped on the article ("This article needs more reliable medical references for verification or relies too heavily on primary sources.") can hardly be taken seriously in isolation. An (IMO) more serious complaint is the other one: "This article includes a list of general references, but it lacks sufficient corresponding inline citations." Unfortunately, the (now retired) editor who added this did not do us a great service. This long article contains many inline citations; I counted 283. It is possible that some potentially disputable statements in the article are insufficiently supported by directly corresponding inline citations, but identifying those will be a major effort – and then finding a specific secondary source supporting them (if any) is another major effort. Editors who find insufficiently supported statements on an article with dozens, in this case even hundreds of locally referenced statements should signal them locally and not slap such a generic template on the whole article, leaving an almost impossible task to others.  ​‑‑Lambiam 11:26, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Win a pony!

In the 1950s, Grape-Nuts ran a promotion where children would send them names for ponies, and the best suggestions won actual ponies.

Leaving aside the question of what their mothers might have said to the winners, do we know anything about what names won the competition? Marnanel (talk) 18:03, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Three names came up in later advertising. Honey Bean became the name of Dale Evan's pony in commercials. Silver Trigger was noted as being inspired by Roy Rogers' horse, Trigger. Lucky was noted as a common, good name. It seems the only information available is one-off news articles from the time that sometimes note the winning name submission. ~2026-16820-81 (talk) 12:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Presumably Silver Trigger also referenced the Lone Ranger's horse, Silver. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 02:46, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

Re-checking Olympic country codes (motivated by Aruba)

According to List of country codes: A–K, Aruba has the IOC code ARU. How can this be rechecked and verified/falsified for sure resp. a timeframe be given for the actual usage of this code? Why should Aruba have a code when it's a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and does not compete in its own right? Official website olympics.com does not have an authoritative list available. Country pages there, like e.g. with GER for Germany, are not complete because many countries like e.g. Afghanistan do not compete and have no NOC (thus, no page like this), but well an IOC code. So, the lack of an ARU subpage is no counterproof. Several pages somewhat affiliated with the Olympics and/or representing some sports organization have lists that often include Aruba, but often also not (example, counter-example). How can this be clarified for good? --KnightMove (talk) 12:23, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

But there is an ARU subpage - https://www.olympics.com/ioc/aruba . Nanonic (talk) 17:33, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Your premise "Aruba . . . does not compete in its own right" is false.

Aruban athletes competed as part of the Netherlands Antilles between 1952 and 1984; Aruba has competed independently in every (Summer) Games since 1988; it sent six athletes to the 2024 Games. See Aruba at the Olympics. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.193} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 02:57, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

Ok, thank you very much. --KnightMove (talk) 05:54, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

Semi-excludable anti-rival goods

Do "semi-excludable anti-rival goods" exist? Yes, the question is a combination of the 2 ways to expand the fourfold model. Based on the fact that "excludability can be measured on a continuous scale", I think the answer is yes, but I'd like to seek others' opinion. Alfa-ketosav (talk) 15:50, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

You're using a semi-excludable anti-rival good right now! Wikipedia is semi-excludable. You can use it for free, but there are features that are excluded if you don't create a membership. Some articles are protected at one time and not another so only select people can edit them. Then, it is anti-rival. It is more valuable the more people use it. If nobody used it, it would lose value. In combination, it is a semi-excludable anti-rival good. ~2026-16820-81 (talk) 19:02, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

People's Republic of China

Suit back

Hallo. What I'm going to ask is something most people take for granted and don't think to ask. But I'll ask: why do the backsides of suits and tuxedos leave the collar of the shirt that's underneath visible? ~2026-24671-3 (talk) 13:15, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Would you want the suit coat to be rubbing against your neck? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:24, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

[WAG] Offhand, I think it would have served the same purpose as an antimacassar back in the "good" old days in jolly old England. Easier to clean a shirt than a suit. Clarityfiend (talk) 15:01, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Just in case, i'm talking about this: https://www.shutterstock.com/cs/image-photo/image-back-man-wearing-blue-costume-619137194?trackingId=d5d7fb10-aefc-4fe1-824c-ee098dde529c&listId=searchResults ~2026-24671-3 (talk) 22:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

What Bugs and Clarityfiend said – speaking as someone who habitually wears tweed jackets, doing so over, for example, a low-necked t-shirt or similar can indeed lead to uncomfortable rubbing of the rougher tweed on the back of the neck. In the 19th and early 20th-century, shirts often had detachable collars so that these could be swapped and laundered more often than the shirt itself; they still survive in specialised niches.

Not so much for that reason, but the collars were stiffened with starch in the laundry, which you wouldn't want for the main shirt. My school uniform dictated these. Johnbod (talk) 15:10, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

As with Connie Mack. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:24, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Also, appearing 'shirtless' from any angle gives an impression of poverty.

Also, deliberately arranging for layers of clothing to be visible has been for centuries (in Western Europe) a feature of ostentatious display – it's why in the mediaeval and renaissance periods 'paned' and 'virago' sleeves, etc., were 'slashed' to show the contrasting colour of the garment underneath. In the modern era, showing visible shirt cuffs and collar serves the same purpose. Back in the 60's and 70's wide shirt collars were often worn unbuttoned and folded over the jacket collar. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 00:22, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Just for completeness, some suits don't have that, as seen here: https://www.shutterstock.com/cs/image-photo/back-view-young-african-american-man-2428869031?trackingId=529d6eb4-c825-4232-b0dd-9c0e52989ab3&listId=searchResults ~2026-24671-3 (talk) 14:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Further to "in the 60's and 70's wide shirt collars were often worn unbuttoned and folded over the jacket collar", historically very wide shirt collars coming over the outer jacket were typical. These might be in lace and so forth. The modern diminutive shirt collar is mainly a 19th-century development. Johnbod (talk) 15:10, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Konrad Deubler translation

Would someone who reads German be able to check my article for Konrad Deubler against the German-language version? I translated the article from French, but that article is mostly a translation from German Wikipedia, and I don't want to be playing telephone; I also can't read the sources. Thanks so much! Kaspar Hauser (talk) 05:52, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Why aren't you calling yourself by your user ID, Mafarkafut? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

@Baseball Bugs: It's like a screen name and an @, no? Kaspar Hauser (talk) 09:37, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Like Kaspar the Friendly Host? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:52, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

See Kaspar Hauser (1812-1833), an enigmatic German youth who claimed to have spent his childhood confined in a cell, leading to conspiracy theories about dynastic intrigue. Alansplodge (talk) 12:12, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

A haunted Hauser. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:27, 20 March 2026 (UTC)