Talk:Alien vs Predator (Atari Jaguar video game)/GA1

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Nominator: KGRAMR (talk · contribs) 23:26, 5 April 2026 (UTC)

Reviewer: Rjjiii (talk · contribs) 22:41, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Going to start on this soon. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:41, 25 April 2026 (UTC) I've gone through many of the sources for to spot check for core content policies and copying. For full disclosure, I used a script that feeds snippets of the article and the cited sources to an LLM to help with spot-checking for verifiability and plagiarism. You can see the results at User talk:Rjjiii § LLM disclosure. I also checked everything manually.

I had the following questions and concerns:

• "a simulation depicting the fall of the Golgotha ​​training base" This breaks up the flow of the paragraph, and Golgotha is more commonly known as the Biblical site of cruxifiction. Is the relevant part here not just that it is a base created by humans overrun by two alien species, which is then explained further in terms of how you can play as each?

 Done -- I clarified that the base belongs to the Colonial Marines. Roberth Martinez (talk) 12:43, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "The demo did not go any further," The demo wasn't made into a game. Why not just say that directly? It feels odd to say that it didn't go any further and also explain how it directly results in the creation of the article topic.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 13:33, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "wanting to achieve the same level of intensity and sense of unease" this should be attributed in quotation marks as it is almost a direct quote from Lewis, "wanted to have the same level of intensity, and the feeling of uneasiness" (to avoid close paraphrasing).

 Done -- I made some changes to the sentence in question. Roberth Martinez (talk) 14:59, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• What's the source for "The Kingsley brothers took cues from dungeon crawlers, but became familiar with Wolfenstein 3D during production,"? What's the distinction between Wolfenstein 3D and a "dungeon crawler", and how does that affect Alien vs Predator? How unfamiliar was he with Wolfenstein? I think the game was a big deal in the industry at this point. Had he not heard of it, not seen it, not played it?

The Kingsley brothers didn't knew about Wolfenstein 3D until halfway through production, when the AVP was first intended to came out in early 1994. They took references from dungeon cralwer titles, which were also popular on computers back in the day. If you're talking aboutt the source of that info, its from the same Retro Gamer feature about Jaguar AVP. Roberth Martinez (talk) 14:55, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "Alien vs Predator (AVP)" why are the initials given again in the Background section when they're in the first line of the article?

Given how extensive the overall production section is, i had to use the initials again as i didn't want to repeat the full title again through. Roberth Martinez (talk) 13:45, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "Hampton discovered that the Lynx version, in addition to lacking a playable Alien character, also included characters and settings based on the Dark Horse Comics series, the rights to which Atari did not own." I feel like I need more background information. Early on in the article, it says that Atari had the rights to do an Alien vs Predator game and links the franchise article. What was AvP at that point? There was an arcade game being developed by Capcom at the same time, there was Super Nintendo game from Activision being developed at the same time, I believe toys (?), and a novelization by Steve Perry. No movies yet. What did they have rights to? Just a port of the SNES game? Do the Jaguar, SNES, arcade, and novel stories have anything in common? Is there some kind of shared universe or were they free to mix it up?

Atari's AVP was initially intended to be just a port of the SNES game. They never owned the rights to the comics. If i had to guess, Images Software thought Atari had the license to the Dark Horse Comics series and that's why the unreleased Lynx version featured characters and locations referring to the comics. Again, i am just going with what the sources state, as we never had anybody from the Lynx team being interviewed (AFAIK). Atari only had the rights for a game on their platforms. I believe the SNES version was the first AVP game to be released. The Game Boy, Arcade and Jaguar versions came later. Roberth Martinez (talk) 13:51, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

Oh, you're good, then. If the sources don't elaborate it would be OR for Wikipedia to elaborate. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 15:24, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "SNES" → "Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES)" on first usage.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 13:45, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "McNamee took upon" "upon" seems like it should be removed?

 Done -- I changed the sentence in question. Roberth Martinez (talk) 14:32, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "The levels would be implemented by Rebellion's programmers,[19] and the designers would ensure they were playable,[38] which proved difficult when debugging the game." I don't see this adding information to the article. The meaning may be going over my head, but I would read the paragraph the same without this sentence. Also "ensure they were playable" is nearly a direct quote from the developer.

 Done -- I redid the sentence in question. Roberth Martinez (talk) 14:01, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "When Beaton and Whittaker were brought to Sunnyvale, there was tension between Rebellion and Atari, as the latter had made a large investment in the game, but it was not yet finished." I see this as contradicted by Kretzinger (2023) pp. 86–90, or at least not supported by it.

I decided to remove the sentence in question. Roberth Martinez (talk) 15:08, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "taking a bite out of an apple" Quote McNamee or paraphrase (biting an apple, eating an apple, etc)

 Done -- I paraphrased the sentence in question. Roberth Martinez (talk) 14:32, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "due to health concerns" Is GamePro not just saying that players become nauseous and dizzy? I think this was common for early VR and why it took so long for consumer VR to materialize.
• This was going to be the pack in title for an Atari Jaguar VR system that made gamers puke? I feel its legacy kind of dodged a bullet there.

Actually, the "health concerns" line was an excuse Atari threw to the press as to what happened to the Jaguar VR, because the deal between Atari and Virtuality (the headset's creators) was falling through in 1995 and ultimately collapsed in 1996. Atari was not in a good financial position at that time and they were going to bail out of the console race. BTW, AVP was never intended to be a pack-in game for the headset. Missile Command 3D and Zone Hunter were going to be the premiere titles for the Jaguar VR, but only MC3D got released with its VR function intact. MC3D will actually detect if you have a Jaguar VR headset. Roberth Martinez (talk) 14:07, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

Oh, that honestly makes more sense. From memory, there was a line in Hitech saying the rumor was that AVP would be the pack in title for Jaguar VR. If Atari had to cancel it at the last moment for financial reasons, Wikipedia shouldn't repeat their "excuse". This article could just say that VR system was cancelled or (if sources are available) the actual reason. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 15:16, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• "while playing as an Alien or Predator was a brilliant experience, the real dread lay in playing as a Marine, facing both Aliens and Predators with only a few weapons." Paraphrase or quote the reviewer "Although playing as either Alien or Predator is a superb experience, the real terror lies in playing as a Marine. In that regard, you have to deal with both Aliens and Predators – with only a few weapons at that."

 Done -- I quoted the line you suggested. Roberth Martinez (talk) 14:14, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

• For the older style multiple page web articles does the article cite the URL that verifies the content? Kingsley (1999) is eight pages each with their own linkable URL.

Yes, the AVP 1999 development diary is eight pages with their own linkable URL and all of them are archived. I didn't want to reference each page separatedly as it would have extended the number of sources already in place within the article. Roberth Martinez (talk) 14:19, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

I'll continue with the review soon, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:38, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

@Rjjiii:First pass done! I'll wait for further comments. Roberth Martinez (talk) 15:09, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

Awesome! I can {{ping}} you when I get to another stopping point (or drop a talk page message if you prefer), so that you don't have to scrutinize a watchlist. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 15:18, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

@Rjjiii:No problemo! Roberth Martinez (talk) 14:20, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for your patience, KGRAMR (talk · contribs). This article is in great shape already. I made notes as I read through. Some of the issues I mention won't affect GA status. Some of them I posed as questions because I realize it will depend on what the sources available say. All of the issues are minor:

• Lead
  • "AVP originally started as a project for the Atari Lynx." The article should say what the Lynx was somewhere early on. I imagine it's not that well-known.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:26, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• • "the game had sold 52,223 copies and I think this is probably confusing in the lead. It can get more context in the lead, or just be removed there and covered in the body. The body gives a later sales figure of "85,000". Do sources mention how this compares to total Jaguar sales (which were quite low compared to competing consoles or Atari's home computers)?

Hmmm... I could but that would fall into original research territory, as the two sources do not tell how sales of AVP compared to Jaguar hardware sales. I decided removing the sales numbers from the lead. Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:26, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Gotcha. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:44, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

• • "Retrospective commentary in the years following its release have hailed" Grammatically I think it should be "has". Not a GA concern: this is kind of a redundant phrasing though.

I decided leaving along this sentence in order to keep it in line with two other Jaguar articles: Iron Soldier and its sequel. Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:26, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• Background
  • Could we get some kind of brief overview of where this franchise was coming from at the start: 20th Century Fox released the films Aliens and Predator in the late 1980s, and Dark Horse began publishing licensed Alien vs Predator comics in 1988.

Hmmm... given that the SNES version is the first to be released, a brief overview of the AVP franchise would fit better in the SNES article. Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:08, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

• • For a more clear chronology could we get the SNES title and license before the Lynx port?

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:53, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• • "founded Rebellion Developments (previously Rebellion Software) to create their own video games, with Eye of the Storm (1993) being their first release." This seems unclear. What did they found the company as? Did they later change the name? Could the ending line be phrased more directly? Something like: "to create their own video games, and they released their first title Eye of the Storm one year later."?

 Done -- I changed the line in question.

• • "Andrew Whittaker began his career in the computer industry in 1980,[33][34] working on computer games before being hired by Rebellion.[31][35]" Not a GA concern but this could read more smoothly if Whittaker was just described as a computer industry veteran, so that the sentence wouldn't have a flashback to 1980.

I think that suggestion sounds way to promotial for Whittaker, so i'll skip that sentence. Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:37, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• Development
  • "limited freedom of movement" Can we elaborate on this? Are all the levels single-floor flat planes like Wolfenstein?

All the levels in the game are like in Wolfenstein 3D. By that i mean single-floor flat planes. Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:25, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

• • "Hampton checked an internal bulletin board system (BBS) maintained by Gillen, who also ran Atari's quality assurance (QA) and testing departments, where Lynx ROM files were uploaded." I felt confused by this. Who uploaded these files? Why is the BBS significant?

 Done -- I clarified as to who actually ran the BBS. The BBS archive is particularly significant because that's where Hampton had to check out the last revision made for Lynx AVP. Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:28, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Oh, that makes so much more sense now. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:47, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

• • "This gave him a legal reason to justify changing course for the Jaguar version, even though the contract stipulated a port of the SNES game." I came away confused on when changes in direction were made and by whom. So Atari gets the license to make the SNES game. Then Hampton becomes a producer but it sounds like he isn't directly involved. Is the early version that uses Dark Horse material the side scrolling SNES game, the side scrolling Lynx game based on the SNES game, a Lynx FPS demo? Are some of these pieces presented out of order?

Hampton was both the original producer for the unreleased Lynx version and the producer for the Jaguar version. He was hired by Atari to become a producer for Lynx games and one of those projects Atari assigned to him was AVP. The licensing Atari struck with Activision stipulated a port of the SNES games to their platforms, but Hampton did not like how that game represented the Alien and Predator characters, hence why Images Software agreed retooling the project into a corridor-based first-person shooter. Hampton worked on Trevor McFur in the Crescent Galaxy, which was his first Jaguar game that he produced to be released, while AVP was the other one to be released under his watch. Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:28, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• • "organized movie marathons and invited the team to watch the Alien and Predator flims on LaserDisc, creating an environment conducive to brainstorming sessions for the game.[17][19][20][22] The Atari team also encouraged the Rebellion team to follow the same process, as they had never seen the Alien or Predator films." Just noting this was interesting background information.
  • Not a GA concern: "increasing the cartridge capacity, from 2 MB! It's wild that Atari expected to do these next generation releases with single programmers and in under 2 MB. If sources comment on it, this would be a great example of how unprepared Atari was for where the industry was going.

It all came down to money. Adding more memory to the cartridge would have increased manufacturing costs. Money that a dying Atari did not have. Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:21, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

• • "strived a non-linear" add "for"

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:06, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

• Visual and audio design
  • This section is excellent. There's a lot of clear detail on how they created the game. The low-tech physical strategies are fascinating.
  • "most of the cartridge's increased memory capacity" But it's still crunched into how much space? A megabyte? Were they doing something to heavily compress the audio like the images? Does this play into why the game has no music? Or did something else cause that?

As they did the audio for the game pretty much before the game was released, they most likely didn't have enough time for music. I had to guide myself with the sources i had. There's probably some source out there that i don't know that might explain why the game doesn't have music during gameplay. Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:28, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Ah, if the sources don't say, we can't either then, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:48, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

• Release
  • "Mumin Corporation" Why is Mumin Corporation releasing the Jaguar in Japan? Was there no Atari Japan?

Atari no longer had a Japanese division even before the Jaguar was a thing. Mumin was the only licensee that distributed the Jaguar in Japan. Mumin also had prior history with Atari, as they distributed the Lynx in Japan in 1990. Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:52, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• • "terminals through the game." → "terminals throughout the game."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:52, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• Reception
  • ""Jaguar's game pads have 17 buttons, and players still need to memorize button combinations to play this game. In the thick of a battle, it's hard to remember that button number four controls the gatling gun" Do sources talk about why they made so much use of the keypad and overlays?

Since i did not handle the reception section (aka the contemporary reviews section) for the article, that question should be ansered by fellow editor @Martin IIIa:, who helped me with this article on that particular area. Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:52, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• • Sources may not comment on this, but did the general skepticism about the Atari Jaguar affect criticism and coverage of this title?

Again, fellow editor @Martin IIIa: might respond to you about it. Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:52, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• • "rough graphics" Because it was a sprite-based first-person game, or even among sprite-based first person games?

I played the game on real hardware many years ago. That line has to do with how the game looks when you are upclose to surfaces and sprites, which have artifacts due to the JagPEG format. Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:52, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• • "for each races." → "for each race."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:52, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• Legacy
  • "Checkered Flag, and released in 1994" Same team? I thought they were under heavy time constraints to wrap up AVP. Who coded this?

 Done -- I explained who handled and programmed Jaguar Checkered Flag. Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:31, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

• • "Skyhammer was finished, but Atari cancelled its release" Do sources say if Rebellion got paid for this?

 Done -- I clarified the situation in question. Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:31, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

While reading through the article source in Firefox, I also corrected any spelling or minor grammar issues that I saw.

I'm going to put this on hold for a bit. Take as much time as you need and ping whenever you're done. It's just about at GA already. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 04:31, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

@Rjjiii:Second pass done! I'll wait for further comments. Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:25, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

@KGRAMR Looks good. The updates are improvements and the declined suggestions are all fine. Everything relating to GA criteria checks out. Regarding a "a brief overview of the AVP franchise", on second thought I do still think the article would benefit from at least a sentence about the Alien and Predator films somewhere in the Production section before the "movie marathons" are mentioned, but the article still "addresses the main aspects of the topic" without that sentence, so I was asking for something beyond GA criteria. I will promote to GA soon. The article has never been on the main page so it will be eligible for nomination at WP:DYK after promotion. Thanks for your patience, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:58, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

@Rjjiii:Thanks for taking the time in reviewing the article! Roberth Martinez (talk) 20:40, 1 May 2026 (UTC)