Talk:Baptists

Baptists are a Protestant Christian tradition of Christianity tracing its origin to the 17th century. A tradition is a denomination but it is more focused on the beliefs than an institution. Baptists are not an institution, given there are many Baptists institutions. It's just a mere yet relevant edit which is found in other Protestants denomination articles. Do not change this. I also changed from complete immersion to total immersion, since it's how it's named in the immersion article and it's better to follow a uniformity. Do not change this. " congregationalist ecclesiastical polity" is more complete than " congregationalist church government". Do not change this. "two sacraments or ordinances" is better than "two ordinances (or sacraments)" to show it's interchargeable. Do not change this. "Baptists are traced back to the Puritan Dissenters from the Church of England in Great Britain. A nonconformist church was formed in Gainsborough..." is better than "Historians trace the Baptists to English Dissenters from the Church of England, more specifically, to the dissenting church in Gainsborough.." since there's no need to add or specify "Historians" given that everything here is based in history and/or the scholarly consensus which is based in history. No other denomination article is presented this way, by the way. Do not change this. I also moved the brief excerpt about Helwys "Thomas Helwys returned the congregation to England, where he formulated a distinctive philosophical request that the church and the state be kept separate in matters of law, so that individuals might have liberty of conscience" higher in the structure because Helwys already died when the Baptists spread in England and became General and Particular Baptists. Makes no sense mentioning him later. Do not change this. Other minor edits are irrelevant because they are taking from this article. Do not change anything; explain here if you want so. Heidon (talk) 14:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

The origins of the Baptist faith can be traced back approximately 1200 year before the reformation. Baptist may have similar beliefs to protestants but baptists are not protestant. There are many references you can google to find the path to the evidence for this. Try googling the phrase "Baptists are not Protestant" ~2025-43513-14 (talk) 15:09, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

User:Heidon has presented the Baptists as a continuation of the Puritans without citing any references and this is not a mainstream view. Academic references, such as this one, state the following:

Baptist appeals to religious liberty and the rights of conscience made no sense to most colonial Americans. Baptists were false teachers — generally ignorant and always obstinate. New England Puritans distrusted and despised Baptists. Baptists undermined all order. Even after Parliament enacted toleration in Great Britain in 1689, Massachusetts authorities used their laws to injure and intimidate Baptists. Massachusetts leaders initially ruled that legal toleration did not apply to Baptists — it applied to the legally established Congregational churches alone.

User:Heidon not have consensus for repeatedly adding the "Puritan" adjective throughout this article and other related articles, as evidenced by the fact that User:Heidon has not only been reverted by me, but also by others, such as User:Telikalive and User:Alanscottwalker. "Puritan Baptist" is a nonsensical term that is confusing and should not be used in this article. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 17:28, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Congregationalists, Baptists and England English Presbyterians were Puritans (either Conformists or Nonconformists). This is well known. Puritans were also known for appeal of religious liberty and worship freely. New England Congregationalists did despised Baptists, but they are not the only Puritans. Baptists are from England, not America. Puritan Baptists are of the same use as Puritan Congregationalist and Puritan Presbyterians used in various articles in Wikipedia, meaning credobaptist Puritans that follow the typical Baptist beliefs. It is not confunsing and it is used. Many Baptists in 17th century were Puritans, and some were not even mentioned as Baptists in the National Biography, for example. All my edits are according to the providing sources of the articles. New England Puritans are Congregationalists. Hope this helps clarify, User:Anupam. Sgd.: Heidon (talk) 21:23, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

You just said "Many Baptists in 17th century were Puritans"; the only thing that can mean is that Baptist and Puritan are different things. Also, no one is interested in what is "well known" to you, we are interested in what sources have to say. Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:28, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments User:Alanscottwalker. I note that this behaviour has extended itself to other articles, such as this one. Anupam^Talk 22:51, 23 July 2025 (UTC)