Talk:Citadel LLC/Archive 2
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| Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2021
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Citadel is a known hedgefund which deals in naked shorts sellings of stocks. Citadel knows this is illegal but they do not care. They enjoy engaging in fraudulent activities to line their own pockets and bankrupt companies and make thousands of people jobless. 80.0.159.46 (talk) 13:52, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. lomrjyo(talk•contrib•Ping with {{u|Lomrjyo}}) 13- 56, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
Illegal market manipulation
Definitly needs some parts about the 'supposed' *wink wink* illegal market manipulation during the AMC squeeze, such as naked shorting, FTD manipulation, FUD spreading in social media and news and at least some semi-illegal, shady moves like rerouting order flow through dark pools to fake selling pressure. ApeGladiator (talk) 15:43, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
" Citadel Securities automation has resulted in more reliable trading at lower costs and with tighter spreads"
Proposal to split out the section called Citadel Securities
There is consensus to split Citadel Securities into its own article. I strongly recommend the use of hatnotes in both articles for ease of navigation and to avoid confusion. A. C. Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 20:10, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I propose that the section called "Citadel Securities" be split off into a separate page also called "Citadel Securities" for the following reasons:
- Citadel Securities is a separate company from Citadel. Citadel Securities is a market maker, one of the largest in the world, while Citadel, the subject of this article, is an asset manager. It is confusing and inaccurate to feature a separate company (Citadel Securities) as a subset/division of another company, (Citadel), as is implied by the structure and content of this article.
- In addition, Citadel Securities can easily exist as a separate, stand-alone article since it passes Wikipedia standards for notability based on a prevalence of significant coverage in reliable sources. Here are a few examples of such coverage: https://www.ft.com/content/58dd7e9d-9483-4ec7-9fdf-1a45f373e8b5; https://www.wsj.com/articles/spotify-picks-citadel-securities-to-handle-debut-at-nyse-1520439264; https://qz.com/1969196/citadel-securities-gets-almost-as-much-trading-volume-as-nasdaq/
I have already created a draft of "Citadel Securities" in my userspace, found at User:Amandaatcitadel/Citadel Securities, which is identical to the current "Citadel Securities" section, except that I added an Infobox, a lead section with reliable sources, an External links section, and the correction of the founding date to 2002. I am notifying JBchrch who recently helped me with Ken Griffin's page. If there is anything else you need, please let me know. Amandaatcitadel (talk) 14:42, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
- Their was a recent article about Citadel in the FT, Citadel Securities is a seperate entity from the Hedge Fund business, it needs its own wikipage due to its size + prominence. --Devokewater (talk) 14:45, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
*Oppose. We generally do not spin off the securities division of big financial groups into separate articles: see Primary dealers § Current primary dealers with the Federal Reserve Bank of New York for a list of prominent examples. The applicable policy here is WP:PAGEDECIDE whose criteria, in my opinion, call for keeping everything in one article. However, I do concede that treating Citadel Securities as a sub-topic of Citadel "The Fund" is sub-optimal, so what I would suggest is to rebrand the article as "Citadel", i.e. a "financial group" comprising both an asset management arm and a market making/securities arm. JBchrch talk 14:58, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
- Citadel and Citadel Securities are separately run businesses that play different roles in the market, and the latter is not "the securities division" of the former. They are both subsidiaries of Citadel Enterprise Americas, LLC, a non-notable holding company. There are plenty of examples on Wikipedia of independently notable sister companies that merit their own standalone articles, such as HSBC Finance and HSBC Insurance; or GE Digital and GE Power. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amandaatcitadel (talk • contribs) 15:29, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Amandaatcitadel Thanks for your helpful comment. I understand the mechanics of mutual independence, and I also understand that you guys at PR need to make sure that public and the clients see these two companies as clearly separate. However, I'm not entirely convinced that this separation has reached the reliable sources yet. The latest FT article about the company begins by calling Ken Griffin
the founder of Citadel Securities and its related $35bn hedge fund Citadel
. The article then spends a lot of time explaining the evolving relationship between Citadel LLC, Citadel Securities and Ken Griffin. The FT and WSJ articles you linked also associate Citadel LLC and Citadel Securities (FT: "group", WSJ: "It was founded in 2002 by billionaire Ken Griffin, who also leads hedge fund Citadel LLC"). I also remember last year's House hearing, where Ken Griffin was called to testify as "Founder and CEO of Citadel and Founder and Principal Shareholder of Citadel Securities" . I will admit that I'm seeing in the reliable sources (I've scanned FT, WSJ and Bloomberg) a tendency to address Citadel LLC and Citadel Securities separately and not as a monolithic group of companies (as opposed to UBS AG and UBS Securities for instance). I am open to changing my !vote if you can provide some reliable secondary sources that would address in more detail how the separation between the two companies and, specifically, to what extent Ken Griffin exercises (or doesn't exercise) a form of common control over the two companies. JBchrch talk 16:10, 3 February 2022 (UTC)- Hi JBchrch. I believe the following reliable secondary sources address your points above. The New York Times makes it quite clear these are two separate businesses.[1] NPR goes a bit further, stating that "Citadel runs a hedge fund..." and later says "But a separate business, also founded and majority-owned by Ken Griffin...is Citadel Securities..."[2] An article in the Financial Times addresses the role Griffin plays at Citadel Securities: "Peng Zhao, who joined Citadel in the mid-2000s and has run Citadel Securities since 2017, says Griffin’s influence is evident through the culture of the business, even if the founder is no longer involved in the “day to day” running of a company in which — according to regulatory disclosures — he owns a stake of at least 75 per cent."[3] I appreciate the time you have taken to discuss this.
- @Amandaatcitadel Thanks for your helpful comment. I understand the mechanics of mutual independence, and I also understand that you guys at PR need to make sure that public and the clients see these two companies as clearly separate. However, I'm not entirely convinced that this separation has reached the reliable sources yet. The latest FT article about the company begins by calling Ken Griffin
- Citadel and Citadel Securities are separately run businesses that play different roles in the market, and the latter is not "the securities division" of the former. They are both subsidiaries of Citadel Enterprise Americas, LLC, a non-notable holding company. There are plenty of examples on Wikipedia of independently notable sister companies that merit their own standalone articles, such as HSBC Finance and HSBC Insurance; or GE Digital and GE Power. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amandaatcitadel (talk • contribs) 15:29, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
References
- Phillips, Matt; Kelly, Kate (17 February 2021). "A Shadowy but Powerful Wall St. Firm Has Its Moment in Washington". New York Times.
- Kailath, Ryan (4 February 2021). "Ken Griffin: The Hedge Fund Titan In The Middle Of The Reddit Investing Revolt". National Public Radio.
- Rennison, Joe; Darbyshire, Madison; Stafford, Stefania (25 January 2022). "Citadel Securities: how the Wall Street outsider became 'the Amazon of financial markets'". Financial Times.
- Thank you. Amandaatcitadel (talk) 21:24, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Moving to support. The New York Times article provides satisfactory coverage of the separation between the two companies and the fact that they are not part of the same corporate entity and are managed separately. Two separate article are justified. In response to Imcdc, I have 0 doubts about the notability of either companies, which a google search with the terms "Citadel Securities" easily demonstrates. JBchrch talk 01:29, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you. Amandaatcitadel (talk) 21:24, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. For the same reasoning that JBchrch lists and support the rebrand as "Citadel", i.e. a "financial group". WestportWiki (talk) 22:11, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
- Support. This is provided the article has enough independent in-depth sources that show that the securities entity is notable enough to warrant its own page. Not just a brief mention because it happened to be affiliated with the Citadel Group. Also since the author is connected with Citadel, we most certainly need an editor to ensure the article can demonstrate notability and and isn't existing just to promote the securities entity. -Imcdc (talk) 11:41, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Update Activities, Investment strategies and Infobox
| This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello. I have a few requests to update and more properly organize the Citadel article.
- In the "Activities" section, please add the following sentence immediately after the sentence that begins "In 2014, Citadel became the first...": "Citadel was ranked 2nd among the top money managers for net gains in 2021."[1]
- In the "Investment strategies" subsection please move the content labeled "Reinsurance" and the content labeled "Risk management." Neither of those discussions belong under "Investment strategies" and each should instead be their own stand-alone subsection under "Activities". This source shows what the five investment strategies are, (equities, commodities, global fixed income and macro, credit, and quantitative strategies)[2] and Reinsurance and Risk management are not listed as one of the five.
- Also, in the "Investment strategies" subsection, please move "Citadel Technology" to the "Former Citadel companies" section, as it is a former Citadel company, and no longer exists.
- In the Infobox, please remove "Citadel Securities" and "Citadel Technology" from the "Subsidiaries" parameter.
- Also, in the Infobox, please update the headquarters to Miami. [3]
References
- Kumar, Nishant (17 January 2022). "These Are the World's Top Hedge Funds for 2021". Bloomberg.com.
- Li, Yun (2 May 2022). "Citadel's flagship hedge fund rallied 7% in April during turmoil, brings 2022 returns to nearly 13%". CNBC.
- Hirsch, Lauren (23 June 2022). "Citadel says it will move offices to Miami because of crime in Chicago". New York Times.
Thanks so much. Cduffymul (talk) 16:19, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Ptrnext. I wanted to call your attention to this recent edit request in case you were interested in reviewing and possibly implementing. I would surely appreciate it if you did. Thanks, Cduffymul (talk) 13:18, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
Done Hope this works. Ptrnext (talk) 06:16, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you Ptrnext for your helpful edits. I noticed that there is an additional mention of the old headquarters location as well as an unsourced “operational headquarters” location which is not accurate. I am therefore requesting the following:
- In the Introduction, in the sentence that begins "The company has more than 1,400 employees, with corporate headquarters in Chicago," please change Chicago to Miami.
- In the same sentence as above, please remove the phrase "operational headquarters in Manhattan". It is not accurate and there is no source for this statement.
- Also in the Infobox, please take out the phrase "Operational HQ:425 Park Avenue, New York, NY U.S." per the above.
- Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated. Cduffymul (talk) 12:36, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you Ptrnext for your helpful edits. I noticed that there is an additional mention of the old headquarters location as well as an unsourced “operational headquarters” location which is not accurate. I am therefore requesting the following:
Update History & Reinsurance
 | Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. |
Hello. I have a few updates and corrections I hope can be implemented on the Citadel LLC page.
- Please remove "Market maker" from the 'Products' parameter in the Infobox, as it does not apply to Citadel LLC.
- Done GiovanniSidwell (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- In the History section, the paragraph that begins: "In 2011, Griffin began…" should be changed to "In December 2001,[1] Griffin began…" The source there is from 2011, but the article refers to an event that happened in December 2001. When the date is changed, please move the paragraph to its correct place chronologically in the History section.
Already done GiovanniSidwell (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- In the History section, in the paragraph that begins "During the coronavirus pandemic…" please change "Citadel Securities" to "Citadel LLC…" 'Securities' went to Palm Beach and 'Citadel' went to Kohler, Wisconsin. This description matches the sources.
- Done GiovanniSidwell (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- GiovanniSidwell, thank you for your help in improving the Citadel LLC article! Cduffymul (talk) 13:12, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
- Please remove the "Reinsurance" section. It is outdated and irrelevant to the company now. If removal of the section is not possible, then can you move a much shorter version of that section to the "Former Citadel companies" section? Here is a possible shorter version:
- In 2004 and 2005, Citadel founded CIG Reinsurance Ltd and New Castle Re.[2][3] In 2006, Citadel's two funds, Kensington Global Strategies and Citadel Wellington had approximately 10 percent of its assets invested in reinsurance.[4] By 2008 Citadel wound down CIG Re, [5] and in 2009, Citadel placed New Castle Re into run-off.[6]
Not done for now: Please establish a consensus with editors engaged in the subject area before using the {{Request edit}} template for this proposed change. I am not knowledgeable enough in this area to evaluate this change, I would suggest starting dedicated RfC and asking for input from interested users. GiovanniSidwell (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
References
- Constable, Simon (2 December 2021). "How the Enron Scandal Changed American Business Forever". Time.
- Anand, Shefali (27 July 2005). "Looking Afield, Hedge Funds Launch Reinsurance Firms". Markets. The Wall Street Journal. Eastern Edition. United States. ISSN 0099-9660. Retrieved 14 December 2019.
- Andersonaug, Jenny (18 August 2006). "Hedge Funds Place Big Bets on Hurricane Season". Business Day - Insider. The New York Times. p. C7. ISSN 1553-8095. Archived from the original on December 14, 2019. Retrieved 14 December 2019.
- Pittman, Mark (8 December 2006). "Citadel sells bonds". Bloomberg. The Royal Gazette. New York, N.Y., United States. Archived from the original on December 16, 2019. Retrieved 15 December 2019.
- "Torus takes New Castle Re renewal rights". Business. The Royal Gazette. Bermuda. 19 December 2008. Archived from the original on December 16, 2019. Retrieved 15 December 2019.
- "Chris McKeown, the founder of Bermuda reinsurers CIG Reinsurance Ltd. and New Castle Reinsurance Co., has been named chief executive officer of global analytical and specialty practices". Business. The Royal Gazette. Bermuda. 15 July 2009. Archived from the original on December 16, 2019. Retrieved 15 December 2019.
Thanks so much. Cduffymul (talk) 14:40, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
Updates to Intro, Activities and Employees
| Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. |
Hello. Citadel's article is in need of some updating, as follows:
In the Intro section, please:
- Update "$62 billion in assets under management as of December 2022" to "$58 billion in assets under management at the beginning of 2024"[1]
- Done ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Change "over 2,600 employees" to "over 2,800 employees"[2]
- Done ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- In the last line of the Intro, please change "As of December 2022, Citadel is the most successful hedge fund of all time, posting $65.9 billion…" to "As of December 2023, Citadel is the most successful hedge fund of all time, posting $74 billion…"[3]
Partly done the term 'most successful' was not verified in the article content ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
In the Activities section, in the Citadel sub-section (the first sub-section) please update the following:
- Update "As of January 2016, Citadel managed more than $29 billion in capital and was one of the world's largest asset managers" to "As of January 2024, Citadel managed more than $58 billion in capital and was one of the world's largest asset managers."[1]
- Done ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Please change the second sentence in the same section to the following:
- At the end of 2023, Citadel ranked as the third largest hedge fund manager in the US,[4] and in 2023, the second largest multi-strategy hedge fund globally.[5]
- Partly done I'd like a reliable source that talks about multi strategy firms as a whole, the linked piece reads promotionally. ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Please add the following sentence to the end of this sub-section:
- In 2023, Citadel returned about $7 billion in profits for its clients, or about a 15% return for its flagship fund. Since 2018 Citadel has returned about $25 billion to its investors.[6]
- Done ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
In the Employees sub-section of Corporate Affairs, please make the following changes:
- In the first paragraph, please clarify that these events were in the past, so that it reads:
- In 2007, the fund was known for having one of the largest personnel turnovers in Chicago, gaining the nickname "Chicago's revolving door." [7] The New York Times reported "the firm is unique in its reputation for being a revolving door." [8][9] It was also reported that turnover was aligned with the hedge fund industry. [7]
- Partly done one of the existing sources failed verification, so I've partially implemented this request keeping with the intent and clarifying who said what. ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Please add the following sentence to the end of the sub-section:
- In 2018, Citadel was ranked among LinkedIn's 50 best companies to work for in the US.[10][11]
Not done Not convinced this should be in the article. ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
References
- Mandl, Carolina (12 December 2023). "Ken Griffin's Citadel to return about $7 bln in profit to investors -source". Reuters.
- Butcher, Sarah (5 April 2023). "Multistrategy hedge funds: Who are they? How do you get a job there?". eFinancialcareers.
- Gilchrist, Karen (23 January 2024). "World's largest hedge funds record bumper year of profits, research shows". CNBC.com.
- "The Largest Hedge Fund Managers 2023". Pensions&Investments. 2023.
- Butcher, Sarah (20 October 2023). "Citadel, Millennium, or...? Life at the big multistrategy hedge funds". eFinancialcareers.
- Rudegeair, Peter (12 December 2023). "Citadel Is Handing Back About $7 Billion in Profits to Clients". WSJ.
- Vickers, Marcia (3 April 2007). "A hedge fund superstar – Citadel founder Ken Griffin is already one of the world's most powerful investors". Fortune. United States. Archived from the original on December 14, 2019. Retrieved 26 April 2008.
- Ahmed, Azam (27 December 2010). "Citadel Founder Offers Thanks and Apologies on Anniversary". DealBook. The New York Times. United States. ISSN 1553-8095. Archived from the original on October 7, 2019. Retrieved 14 December 2019.
- Schrodt, Paul (21 March 2018). "The 50 Best Places to Work, According to LinkedIn". Money.
- Economy, Peter (21 March 2018). "These are the 50 top companies for 2018, according to LinkedIn". Inc.
I am also pinging Castncoot who recently edited the page. Thanks so much. Cduffymul (talk) 22:55, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hey, I've gone through your requests. Please only ping me for questions about this review, I'm quite busy and may not have time to answer future requests! ForksForks (talk) 03:36, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi ForksForks, thank you for your help in implementing my request. I appreciate your offer to further assist with this review, and hope you have time to look over the following:
- Intro section:
- The CNBC source refers to Citadel as, "the most successful hedge fund in history," based on its $74 billion in gains since inception. Can you please incorporate that language?
- Activities section:
- Here is a Bloomberg source about multi-strategy funds that supports Citadel as the second-ranked firm in 2023.
- Employees sub-section
- Here is a direct link to the Fortune article, which supports my suggested language: "In 2007, the fund was known for having one of the largest personnel turnovers in Chicago, gaining the nickname, "Chicago's revolving door." (This source is reference 7 on this Talk page reflist and reference 68 in the Citadel LLC article).
- Thank you again for your efforts to update this article. Cduffymul (talk) 14:41, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Done ForksForks (talk) 17:01, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Updates to Corporate Affairs and History
| This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Hello. Please add the following two subjects as separate paragraphs to the end of the "Employees" sub-section of the "Corporate affairs" section:
- At the end of 2022, Citadel took employees and their families from the US, Canada, and Europe to Disney World for an all-inclusive weekend.[1] The following year the firm did the same for 1,200 employees and their families from six offices located in Asia Pacific, at Disneyland Tokyo.[2] The events were paid for by company founder Griffin in honor of the 30th anniversary of the launch of Citadel in 1990 and Citadel Securities in 1992.[3]
- Citadel sponsors a competitive 11-week summer internship program each year which accepts less than 1 percent of those who apply.[4][5]
References
- Cuccinello, Hayley (1 December 2022). "Citadel's anniversary extravaganza: Billionaire Ken Griffin treats employees to Disney World and a Coldplay concert amid a stellar year for the hedge fund". Business Insider.
- Jackson, Sarah (1 October 2023). "Billionaire hedge fund boss Ken Griffin pays for 1,200 staff and family members to visit Disney Tokyo and hear performances by Maroon 5 and Calvin Harris". Business Insider.
- Royle, Orianna Rosa (21 November 2023). "Billionaire Citadel boss Ken Griffin paid for 1,200 employees and their families to go to Disneyland—and threw in a private concert with Maroon 5 and Calvin Harris". Fortune.
- Yilun Chen, Lulu (29 August 2023). "Citadel Vets 69,000 Intern Applicants to Find Next Math Geniuses". Bloomberg.
- Yilum Chen, Lulu (28 August 2023). "Interns earn $19,000 monthly at finance giant Citadel. But they need some 'exceptional' skills to get in the door". Fortune.
Thanks so much, Cduffymul (talk) 12:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
Not done: Promotional, doesn't seem to be due weight, especially the first paragraph. Rusalkii (talk) 22:16, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
