Talk:Csángós/Archive 2
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 | This is an archive of past discussions about Csángós. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Anthem
"Organization for the European Minorities" is the just the website, made by a few guys in their spare time, nothing more. It's not a reliable source.
It's not an official organization, nor a notable international organization. I can make a website and call it the "International Organization for Minorities", but that doesn't make it a reliable source.
Also, who wrote the anthem and who made it the anthem of the Csangos? Is it the anthem that the Csango organizations approved or just some anthem made up by Hungarian nationalists?
And even if it were their anthem, it should not be included in this article because it's likely copyrighted.
bogdan (talk) 20:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
Actually, if the anthem is notable, an article about it could be created, which could be linked from this article. I don't see a point in having the full anthem here. Other articles on ethnicities don't have their full texts of the anthems. bogdan (talk) 22:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
- The Organisation for European Minorities site is ok, but it isn't a reliable source on its own. You're right about the anthem though, it isn't typical for an ethnicity/nationality to have the anthem on their page. If it is notable enough, and used enough it should have its own page, like e.g. Bro gozh ma zadoù. That page can be linked from this one. - Francis Tyers · 22:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
- Why create a new page for this? It is good enough here. Or Romanian editors dont like to see it? First it was not reliable, and now....
- From what I read, it seems that the "anthem" is just a poem written by a nationalist in 19th century. It has no official value or anything, it's just a poem. We don't include random poetry in Wikipedia articles. bogdan (talk) 10:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
I've just added a Székely cultural and literary magazine that published it with the title "Csángó Himnusz" (Csángó Anthem) and a book from the Hungarian Electronic Library that besides calling it an anthem compares it to the Hungarian and the Székely ones. BTW I don't understand why is that such a shock...
"written by a nationalist": the Romanian anthem was written by an internationalist cosmopolitan? (Starting line: "Wake up, Romanian, from your deadly sleep...") Squash Racket (talk) 10:45, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
All national anthems are written by nationalists - nationalism is somewhat the obvious reson for writing a national anthem. The statement by Bogdan is therefore both true and irrelevant, and does not serve as justification for removing it. It is difficult to copyright an anthem, because people are actively encouraged to learn and sing it. However, anthems are rarely written out in their entirety on Wiki pages, and this might be justification for removing it or moving it. For example, the Szekely page has a link to the Szekely anthem. This might be a more appropriate way to deal with the anthem issue.
The anti-Hungarian bias of some comments here is not in line with the Wikipedia ideals of neutrality. If your own nationalism causes you to Hate Hungarians, then perhaps you should not edit Wikipedia pages that about issues involving Hungarians. Rsalisb5 (talk) 12:12, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
I think some questions should be answered:
- Who and for which purpose created this song?
- How much acceptance does have this song on the Csango population?
Only inf this questions are cleared we can keep this poem in the article. --Olahus (talk) 20:42, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Sources
This article fails to even mention some of the major works on the subject and is based on all sorts of studies and websites rather than on sound scientific research - published on major studies. One such work is: Dumitru Mărtinaş, Originea ceangăilor din Moldova, Editura Ştiinţifică şi Enciclopedică, Bucureşti, 1985 . Unfortunately the best sources cand be found in libraries and not online. I hope wikipedians interested on this subject would do so much to actually consult established works. The article would look much much different if it were based on serious sources. --89.44.43.59 (talk) 13:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
The view that the Csango dialect is a variety of Hungarian was common and accepted until the 1980s, the appearance of the so called “Mărtinaş-theory”. The above mentioned "book was completed in 1963, but its publication proved unsuccessful, as the proofreaders considered it a dilettante piece of work. The ideologies of the book promoting the Romanian origin of the Csangos only became timely in the period of the Romanian nationalistic communist dictatorship, and it was published in the fiercest period of the communist dictatorship, six years after the death of the author in 1979, so that the manuscript originally counting approximately 100 pages was rewritten and extended with further 60 pages by the historians of the Ceaşescu-dictatorship, V. M. Ungureanu and Ion Coja." (cf. Vilmos Tanczos, Gabor Vincze) For more details on the topic and an extensive SCIENTIFIC bibliography based on long-term research see: http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/tanczos/tanczos.pdf Sztunde5 (talk) 12:02, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Mucha mentira
Ni en broma no puedes decir que en Moldavia hay 260.000 csongos. Todos los catolicos de Moldavia son csongos? Hay una importante etnia polaca en el norte, hay muchas famillas mescladas que tienes hijos bautizados catolicos, hay gente de Italia por aqui y de otro paises catolicos. Yo soy de religion catolica pero solo el padre de mi pedre era catolico y hablaba rumano. Este articulo de wikipedia es propaganda hungara y un gran mentira. --Bogdan29roman (talk) 19:16, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
- I have investigated your claim that the article alleges the Csango population of Moldavia is 260,000, and find it to be false for both the current edit and for numerous previous versions of this page. The number 260,000 appears as a maximum estimate made in a Council of Europe report. The wiki article does not make an assumption that this is the correct estimate, and in fact mentions both the lowest Council of Europe estimate alongside their final estimate of 60-70,000 Csango in their entirity (again, not making reference to all living in Moldavia), as well as examining a number of other estimates, self-identifications and census data from other sources, including official Romanian census data. The article makes no claim that the estimates of Roman Catholics in Moldavia refer exclusively to Csangos, and merely includes it as a reference point before going on to give a specific qualifier concerning the lesser percentage who come from Hungarian-speaking households, which in fact reinforces your own personal viewpoint. This section should remain as written, and additional certified data added to it as it becomes available. Ethdhelwen (talk) 12:03, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Number of Hungarians and Romanians via Demographics
Looking back at the historical Roman Catholic population of Moldavia and the demographics of the Hungarians of Romania, based on ethnicity as opposed to language, one can get a glimpse of the true number of Hungarian or Szekely Csangos vs the ethnic Romanians. Given that the number of Hungarians in Romania in 1930 was roughly akin to the 2002 population (1,425,507 Hungarians in Romania in 1930 vs 1,431,807 Hungarians in Romania in 2002), and assuming that all approx 110,000 Catholics in 1930 were Hungarians or a primarily Hungarian background, isn't it safe to say that some 110,000 of the Catholics are Hungarians, while the remaining roughly 130,000 are Romanians who converted to Catholicism? That further goes almost hand-in-hand with the statement that 43% of the Catholic population lives in traditionally Hungarian speaking areas, as 43% of 240,000 is 103,200. Just something for thought given the correlation between the 'projection' and current data. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prussia1231 (talk • contribs) 06:36, 27 December 2011 (UTC)