Talk:Generation Z/sandbox

The birth year range of Generation Z is disputed, but generally, researchers and popular media set starting birth years in the mid-to-late 1990s and ending birth years in the early 2010s.

The Oxford Dictionaries describes Generation Z as "the generation born in the late 1990s or the early 21st century, perceived as being familiar with the use of digital technology, the internet, and social media from a very young age."^[36] The Oxford Learner's Dictionaries describes Gen Z as "the group of people who were born between the late 1990s and the early 2010s".^[37] The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines Generation Z as "the generation of people born in the late 1990s and early 2000s."^[38]

The Pew Research Center specified 1997 as their starting birth year for Generation Z, choosing this date for "different formative experiences", such as new technological and socioeconomic developments, as well as growing up in a world after the September 11 attacks.^[39] Pew has not specified an endpoint for Generation Z, but used 2012 as a tentative endpoint for their 2019 report.^[39] Numerous news outlets use a starting birth year of 1997, often citing Pew Research Center.^[a] Various think tanks and analytics companies also have set a 1997 start date.^[b] A U.S. Census publication in 2020 described Generation Z as the “young and mobile” population with oldest members of the cohort born "after 1996".^[56] The United States Library of Congress cited Pew's definition of 1997–2012 in one of their consumer research reports.^[57] Statistics Canada also cited Pew Research Center in a 2022 publication.^[58]

Other news outlets have used 1995 as the starting birth year of Generation Z.^[f] Psychologist Jean Twenge has defined Generation Z as the "iGeneration" using a range of those born between 1995 and 2012.^[66] The World Economic Forum uses a 1995 start date,^[67] as do various management and consulting firms.^[e]

Other years have also been used to define Generation Z. The Center for Generational Kinetics defines Generation Z as those born from 1996 to 2015.^[71]

Individuals born in the Millennial and Generation Z cusp years have been sometimes identified as a "microgeneration" with characteristics of both generations. The most common name given for these cuspers is Zillennials.^[72][73]

Moved from Talk:Generation_Z#Date_range_sources_don't_seem_right.

 – Some1 (talk) 01:30, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

I believe that many of the sources that are included in the date range section should be removed. I don't think that Forbes magazine, Inc., CBS News, etc. should even be on there in the first place (the CBS article is even from 2015). As previous people have mentioned from the talks page discussion, outdated sources need to be removed according to today's date. WaterIguana (talk) 08:49, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Blocked sock. BappleBusiness^[talk] 05:06, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Moved from Talk:Generation_Z#Why_is_WikiBoo2_moving_the_1996-2015_citation_into_the_Pew_Research_section_at_the_very_top?_There_is_no_consensus_to_do_this.

 – Some1 (talk) 01:30, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

I have also put a cuspers citation that Some1 has approved for Centennial357 to add to the cuspers page. I suspected that WikiBoo2/Argsro have multiple accounts and has been editing without discussing it. Why are they attempting to move the Centers for Generational Kinetics citation into the Pew Research section without discussing it first? There is no consensus for this! I have made aware to both Some1 and Dan Bloch about their behavior. So this is why there are so many outdated citations as well as citation articles that violate the date range edit guidelines. That 2015 CBS News citation and outdated United Press International are the many examples. WaterIguana (talk) 15:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC) Blocked sock. BappleBusiness^[talk] 05:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

I have already notified to both Some1 and Dan Bloch about WikiBoo2 the past couple of weeks. I find it suspicious that WikiBoo2 had allowed the 1996-2015 citation to be moved and didn't edited it back. There is no consensus to do this. I have added the recent Cosmos citation that was approved by Some1 themself to be added to the cusper page. As I have said, I suspected WikiBoo2 to have been the same individual who has been adding outdated citations that shouldn't be on the Generation Z article page at all. PricewaterhouseCoopers, the CBS News, and many others were added by WikiBoo2 this past May. They are outdated. Argso had also done the same. Who had added the INC. magazine, for example? That shouldn't even be there. WaterIguana (talk) 15:46, 8 December 2022 (UTC) Blocked sock. BappleBusiness^[talk] 05:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

There is currently lots of vandalism going on these pages. I will ping @Danbloch @Some1 and @BappleBusiness about @Wikiboo2's vandalism. Center for Generational Kinetics is nothing more than a marketing agency. It has no WIkipedia article on it, and there are rarely articles that cite the date ranges used in their research. Their website that defines "Gen Z" has not been updated since 2018, quoting "every industry will see an increase in Gen Z employees over the next three years as the oldest members of this generation are already 22." and even the Facebook group only has 600 likes. I back up @WaterIguana and agree that CGK has no reason to be in this article as it is outdated information and not widely known. Zillennial (talk) 00:53, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Reading your reasoning, I agree we should remove the Center for Generational Kinetics reference. Can we make those edits in the sandbox (in a new section, since "Consolidation for Notes" explicitly doesn't add or remove sources) and not on the actual article until we gather consensus? Otherwise it will just result in endless edit warring, like what is happening now. As for the edits by @Wikiboo02, I don't think it's intentional enough to be vandalism, but it is certainly at least approaching disruptive editing. BappleBusiness^[talk] 03:27, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Which edits are we talking about? The only thing I did was reverting some changes from today that went against consensus. If you want you can show me the edits that were wrong. The edit that this user is talking about was made by AusLondonder. The Center for Generational Kinetics are definitely using their range still in 2022 with new publications from 2021-2022 being released. It says “Gen Z employees are here. Now up to age 26…” and last year they surveyed “ages 13-25”. Just because they defined it a while back doesn’t mean they aren’t using it anymore. Same thing could be said about Pew so let’s discard the idea that it’s outdated. I think on here they’re given due weight as demographers. I think the intention of this user is to eradicate any range that isn’t Pew as is evident by him sneaking in a removal of the 1996-2012 range that McKinsey used in one of their reports in the Asia section. Wikiboo02 (talk) 03:37, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

As stated above: Center For Generational Kinetics is nothing more than a marketing agency. There is little to no evidence that this is a valid addition to the Date and Age Range section because it is rarely (if ever) referenced or used in major media articles that gain traction. A minority opinion (see: Strauss--Howe generational-theory) does not need to be referenced in a general article. Also- not sure why you said Pew Research is "outdated" when nearly every source listed under the "1997-2012" birth year range follows the criteria that us who have been contributing to this article agreed on and the invisible comment beneath the section: avoid marketing/consulting companies, non-notable media sources, and institutions not related to studying generations. Instead, focus on demographers and experts, generation-research firms, government sources/censuses, and notable dictionaries. Notable media/newspapers may be used in a limited fashion in tandem with another appropriate source as listed above.

To address the last point you've made: accusing me of "sneaking in a removal" (to part of an article that does not need to reference a birth year range as it is an unnecessary run-on) with the idea that "eradicating any range that isn't Pew" is my motive goes against Wikipedia guidelines see:Assume good faith. I have been contributing to the Generation Z page for 2+ years now and am a trusted editor. I am pinging @BappleBusiness and @Some1 once again, as @Wikiboo02 has brought Disruptive editing to this page with @WaterIguana (looks like they've been on a block now). If accusatory behavior/disruptive editing continues on their part I will be reporting them to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Zillennial (talk) 03:16, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Also @Wikiboo02 is now accusing me of sockpuppetry (based on their reply above). Please read Wikipedia:Sockpuppetry/Notes for the accuser. Zillennial (talk) 03:45, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

The Center For Generational Kinetics addition seems a bit promotional, especially when the source used is linked to their own website. Just from googling them, their main website appears, then the owner's website, then their LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Apple Podcasts... As of now, I don't see many major media outlets citing their research, so I don't think they should be included in the article; adding them will just give their company free advertisement. Some1 (talk) 14:35, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Isn’t that to be expected when one Googles a company? Googling Pew, not saying they’re anywhere near them, also gives their website along with Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook and YouTube. The source for Pew is also linked to their own website, again not comparing the relevancy of both. I’m not sure about the original reasoning behind including it but given that it’s a primary definition, from demographers like Pew, the only thing that sets it apart is that it’s not as widely known which is why I reason that it should remain in one single sentence far below Pew so as to not give it undue weight. Wikiboo02 (talk) 14:45, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Mentioning them in a single sentence like that ("The Center for Generational Kinetics define Generation Z..."), when they're not well-known and are barely cited by reliable secondary sources is giving them undue weight in general. Some1 (talk) 14:56, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

I agree with this. There's no reason to include a random market agency that does not hold a majority view point when defining generations. Zillennial (talk) 04:14, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

When you frame it that way I agree. I tried looking for older consensus that approved it but couldn’t find any, do you Some1 know why it was added in the first place? I can’t think of anything that would refute your reasoning. If things change in the future and I find better reason to include it I will make a talk page discussion. Wikiboo02 (talk) 05:08, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

I beg of you, can someone check in a version? Either version. We're in reasonably close agreement. What I'm seeing now is that we're talking about details and holding up the big changes. If we don't get it absolutely right the first time the remaining issues can be settled on their merits, but after the reformatting is live. Thanks, Dan Bloch (talk) 04:24, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

The closest we are to an agreement is Some1’s latest proposal. I’m awaiting his approval and maybe he can publish it? Wikiboo02 (talk) 05:01, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Screw it, I'm publishing the most recent proposal onto the actual page. We can further discuss changes, but at least we'll have a better version for the time being. BappleBusiness^[talk] 06:31, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

I think we should try to update some of the sources to use articles published in 2023. Especially if they are a few years old. Zillennial (talk) 21:03, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Defining "generations" is not an exact science. The breakdowns are subjective and the traits of each cohort are generalized. However researchers and popular media typically define Generation Z as those born with a year starting around 1997 and ending around 2012.

The Oxford Dictionaries describes Generation Z as "the generation born in the late 1990s or the early 21st century, perceived as being familiar with the use of digital technology, the internet, and social media from a very young age." The Collins Dictionary define Generation Z as "members of the generation of people born between the mid-1990s and mid-2010s who are seen as confident users of new technology". The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines Generation Z as "the generation of people born in the late 1990s and early 2000s."

The Pew Research Center has defined 1997 as the starting birth year for Generation Z, basing this on "different formative experiences", such as new technological and socioeconomic developments, as well as growing up in a world after the September 11 attacks. Pew has not specified an endpoint for Generation Z, but used 2012 as a tentative endpoint for their 2019 report. Numerous news outlets use a starting birth year of 1997, often citing Pew Research Center. Various think tanks and analytics companies also have set a 1997 start date. In a 2022 report, the U.S. Census designates Generation Z as "the youngest generation with adult members (born 1997 to 2013)." Statistics Canada used 1997 to 2012, citing Pew Research Center, in a 2022 publication analyzing their 2021 census.

Other news outlets have used 1995 as the starting birth year of Generation Z, as do various management and consulting firms. Psychologist Jean Twenge has defined Generation Z as the "iGeneration" using a range of those born between 1995 and 2012. The Australian Bureau of Statistics uses 1996 to 2010 to define Generation Z in a 2021 Census report.

Individuals born in the Millennial and Generation Z cusp years have been sometimes identified as a "microgeneration" with characteristics of both generations. The most common name given for these cuspers is Zillennials. Zillennial (talk) 16:31, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Idea #1:

Generation Z (or more commonly Gen Z for short), colloquially known as zoomers, is the demographic cohort succeeding Millennials and preceding Generation Alpha. Researchers and popular media use the mid-to-late 1990s as starting birth years and the early 2010s as ending birth years, with the generation typically being defined as those born between 1997 and 2012. Most members of Generation Z are children of Generation X.

Idea #2:

Generation Z (or more commonly Gen Z for short), colloquially known as zoomers, is the demographic cohort succeeding Millennials and preceding Generation Alpha. Researchers and popular media use the mid-to-late 1990s as starting birth years and the early 2010s as ending birth years, generally defined as those born loosely from 1997 and 2012. Most members of Generation Z are children of Generation X.

Idea #3:

Generation Z (or more commonly Gen Z for short), colloquially known as zoomers, is the demographic cohort succeeding Millennials and preceding Generation Alpha. Researchers and popular media use the mid-to-late 1990s as starting birth years and the early 2010s as ending birth years, with the birth years loosely defined from about 1997 to 2012. Most members of Generation Z are children of Generation X. Zillennial (talk) 16:40, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Deloitte is a global consulting organization that recently published its 2024 survey of millennials and Gen Z. The methodology of the survey set 1995 as the cut-point, with Gen Z respondents being those born between Jan 1995 and the end of 2005. Should Deloitte be cited as a consulting firm that sets 1995 as the start of Gen Z? Fortune is cited in the article as referencing Deloitte, but Deloitte isn't cited in turn... J F-T (talk) 23:20, 10 December 2024 (UTC)