Talk:Gothic metal

This article has a huge contradiction. In the beginning and the "Characteristics" section the gothic metal genre is decribed as a subgenre of death-doom with corresponding features. However, later Evanescence, HIM and Nightwish are introduced despite having 0% death-doom influence. So you should either remove the mention of death-doom and bands that play in this style (real gothic metal) completely, or remove the pseudo gothic metal bands and create a separate article for them. The way this page looks now is unacceptable and misleading. The sentence that is started with "Other variations include" doesn't have any sources. 5.18.243.129 (talk) 21:38, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

• Because none of these bands are Gothic metal, and the article is ridiculously bad. Beaumain (talk) 20:34, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

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Citing Gavin Baddeley - a reasonably informed source - the article's "Etymology" section opens by stating that the "gothic metal" tag was first used with Paradise Lost's 1991 "Gothic" album. That's actually incorrect. There is a headline from an August 1990 The Morning Call article that reads: "ON TOUR, GOTHIC METAL BAND DANZIG USUALLY GOES IT ALONE". Here's the source: . I think that should be mentioned in the article. Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:46, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

The term already appeared in 1985 in connection with the band 45 Grave. Could be older. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.70.206.102 (talk) 06:41, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

To those interesting mentions above, let me add some more stuff too.

Indeed Paradise Lost with their first 2 albums and especially the second, were those who defined what we know today as gothic metal and by giving the name "Gothic" on the album, they helped the term spread everywhere. The thing is that the term was already existing and i am not talking about gothic rock but about gothic metal!! What makes the issue a bit complicated, is that back in the 80s the term gothic metal was being used (limited usage but still used) for bands like Warlord, Manilla Road, Cirith Ungol and generally for what we call now epic metal (this term was also present in the 80s too but with much more limited usage). Let me give you some examples from 80s magazines (all those examples and much more are included on the article i wrote about the subgenres of metal music during the 80s and it was published online in March 2025 https://www.metalzone.gr/articles/heavy-metal-subgenres-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%B1-%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD-%CE%B4%CE%B5%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%B1-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85-%E2%80%9880-%E2%80%93-%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%B1-%CE%B1%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%81%CF%87%CE%B5%CF%83-%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%B4%CE%BF%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9-0

KERRANG 38 March-April 1983 Cirith Ungol, being described from the article writer as ‘’Gothic HM’’

METAL FORCES 2 WINTER 83-84 Warlord presentation, the band calls their music “classically oriented gothic heavy metal” Cities interview, about the Lyrics : ‘’the good versus evil Gothic Metal confrontation. We love that Medieval, Gothic stuff’’.

THE HEADBANGER 7 (DEC. 1983) Warlord interview, the band mentions ‘’there aren’t too many gothic HM bands out there because they’re so unadvanced’’

METAL MADNESS 4 (1985) Manilla Road Open The Gates review ‘’Manilla Road have a very Gothic and Medieval sound to them’’

METAL MADNESS 6 (1985) Manilla Road ‘’playing a style of metal that has gone from a bit spacey to very gothic and heavy’’

ROCK HARD 7 (USA) 1985 Manilla Road Open The Gates review ‘’the Lp has the gothic metal style of lyrics that Manilla Road have used since their inception’’

ROCK HARD 8 (USA) 1986 Omen Warning Of Danger review ‘’Termination is kind of a departure from the band’s usual gothic songwriting style’’

METAL FORCES 19 (1986) Candlemass Epicus Doomicus Metallicus review ‘’so if gothic metal is your type of stuff’’

METAL FORCES 27 (1988) Attacker The Second Coming review ‘’on a whole the music is like thrashy old Rainbow (with Dio). I love the way they mix the gothic style of old Rainbow with a thrashy feel, yet I would never consider Attacker as a thrash band, more like power metal, if anyone remembers what that title means anymore? In other words this is the kind of sound that made heavy metal so happening back in the good ol’ days of ’83-‘84’’

GRAY MATTER 2 (august 1987) Drifter demo, the journalist asks the band ‘’has the band always had the gothic (Manowar) look and ideas’’? ‘’Manowar and Fates Warning fans keep a look out for Drifter, barbaric, fantasy metal...a new style of ‘’gothic’’ metal is found in the Swiss metal band, Drifter’’.

POWER PACKER 3 (1989) Iced Earth Enter The Realm demo review ‘’it’s plain heavy metal, well, sort of a gothic metal type’’.

NO GLAM FAGS 5 (1991) Bathory Hammerheart review ‘’a gothic, power metal release…very Nordic and mythological, medieval rhythms’’

Personally i believe that the missing link between this 80s definition of gothic metal and the 90s gothic metal, is the Candlemass album Epicus Doomicus Metallicus! Nick Holmes in an interview at Metal Forces magazine (issue 50, May 1990), during the period that the "Lost Paradise" album got released, he said the following : "The last thing i want to see is my band linked with band like Carcass because that just isn't us. We want to embrace the underground, but we'd rather be seen as having something of a gothic metal background similar to Candlemass at the time of "Epicus"...".

So, according to all those things, i believe it would be good if someone could change the entry (because me i don't know how to do citing), adding the information i just presented.

Alexandros Zoris

It appears to be common knowledge that Paradise Lost initiated gothic metal with Gothic - female vocals, the orchestral flourishes, the goth rock influence - but it was really with 1993's Icon that the blueprint of goth metal was laid (). The other two british death-doom bands, My Dying Bride and Anathema, soon followed suit. What I rarely see in articles about goth metal metal's history is that roots of the style were actually in goth bands - specifically Fields of the Nephilim, Sisters of Mercy & Christian Death - making metal-like songs rather than metal bands going goth. An example? Field of the Nephilim's 1988 track "Phobia" sounds a lot like Motörhead's "Ace of Spades": . To be fair, this Wikipedia briefly mentions this. My suggestion: write something about this in the opening paragraphs, before talking about the so-called "Peaceville Three" as the pionners of the subgenre. Musicaindustrial (talk) 14:08, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

• The Gathering (Always, 1992) and Type O Negative (Bloody Kisses, august 1993) both released gothic metal albums before Icon (september 1993). Tiamat released Wildhoney in 1994, and in 1995, when the other two "followed suit", there were already Inferno by Lacrimosa and Theatre of Tragedy by Theatre of Tragedy. Looks like it's "common knowledge" to just ignore anyone who's not british death-doom. Beaumain (talk) 20:06, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

You also had Saviour Machine's Saviour Machine I released in August 1993 , and the band itself formed in 1989 , . All of this can be added, just make sure that it's backed up with references.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:12, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

...and a shit load of crap bands dominates the article. Cradle of Filth? Not Goth metal. Evanescence? Not Goth metal. HIM? I'm really not a fan of bad jokes...

• Cradle of Filth is basically a symphonic black metal band with occasional gothic songs (such as Nymphetamine, Death of Love or The Persecution Song). To them, it seems, these songs serve the same purpose as power ballads for heavy metal bands. Beaumain (talk) 08:00, 29 September 2023 (UTC)