Talk:Jacob Chansley/Archive 3

This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived.

I am not going to formally propose that this article be merged into Aftermath of the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol#Notable arrests and charges at this time. I don't think that would be appropriate so soon after the recent AfD was closed as a "weak keep". That said, he is covered it that sub-article at length (and more sparingly in the main article) which makes me question whether this stand alone article is necessary. I don't think that was really considered in depth in the AfD. In any event, I think it would be wise for us to look at this again in the coming months, or year. I tend to think that AfD was decided far WP:TOOSOON and without real consideration of whether he would pass the WP:TENYEARTEST. It may be wise for us to reconsider some point in the future when the main and sub-articles have progressed further, and when more has happened with the pending trials and investigations.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 00:26, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Comment - Unlike some of the other arrestees from the Capitol event, Mr. Angeli was already a known figure for his prior activism/actions (and/or his distinct appearance), he simply gained more mainstream notoriety during his actions at the Capitol... he already passed WP:BASIC before the event, including several reliable sources because of his past protests, which means he does not qualify for WP:BLP1E... I understand the TENYEARTEST concerns, especially once all of the general Qanon/Trumpism activity in the country has passed/settles down (humans are fickle, trends fade), but I believe there is ample evidence to show he is notable enough for a standalone article per Wikipedia's standards... - Adolphus79 (talk) 01:12, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't really want to re-litigate the AfD at this time (why I said we should look at this later), but I don't think it was established that Angeli met WP:GNG for events pre-1/6. We will see whether he indeed maintains "notability" when the dust settles after trials (impeachment and otherwise) and all investigations have run their course. That really isn't my point though. Whether he is notable or not doesn't mean we need to deal with the information about him in three places (ie the main article, aftermath article and here). The Black Dahlia was plenty notable but there is only one article about her AND her murder. We don't have to have multiple articles to cover the same content.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 01:32, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree with you completely, but he has nothing more than a single mere mention/link here on the main article, and one short paragraph on Aftermath of the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol specifically regarding his arrest (no biographical information)... - Adolphus79 (talk) 02:25, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Darryl Kerrigan, it strikes me as weird and pathological that this particular thread be pinned for ten years on this talk page. It seems... excessive. Elizium23 (talk) 02:39, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

@Elizium23: I don't think it needs to be pinned here for ten years. I proposed that we reconsider in months or a year (ie when some of the trials/investigations are done). I just didn't want it to archive until that has occurred (as I have seen conversations here archive after about a week). I just used the default pin/sec code which seems to set the duration as ten years. Happy for this to be manually archived after some consideration is given at a future date (hopefully a little further than a week and a half after the event, which I think is simply WP:TOOSOON).--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 03:38, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Currently there is no automatic archiving configured for this page at all. There may be some aggressive archivers going through with OneClickArchiver, which I do not appreciate. I would say a week is way too soon to archive a thread.

But it is also important to note that threads are only archived after periods of inactivity not their posting. So it would be reasonable to archive a thread after 60 days of inactivity.

I am curious as to why you want this thread to perdure for a long time. It would basically be ignored by the time it came mature. A better idea would be for you to set a personal calendar reminder to revisit it and then you can just link to the archived thread wherever it has landed by then. Elizium23 (talk) 03:42, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps, but it is also not a bad thing for people to think about as the other articles mature, and as this one does. Perhaps, they could even comment. Not sure why this bothers you so much. Why is it such a tragedy if this sits here for six months or a year as a reminder that we should probably reconsider whether this content should exist in multiple articles whether a merger makes sense? If someone really thinks we should talk about a merger now we can do that, I am just admitting that I don't think it would be prudent for us to make a decision while so much is happening on a daily basis concerning 1/6 charges etc. It is not at all uncommon for discussions to sit on talk pages for years, and while editing has been at a fever pitch over the last week and a half, I don't expect it will stay that way for long. The idea seems to deeply offend you though so I have changed the archive notice to a year. Feel free to comment on the substance of what I have said too though, and not just make procedural quips.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 06:11, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Frankly it just comes off as a sore loser who wants to make an end-run around WP:AFD duly deciding to keep this article for now. Everybody knows that if you don't like an AFD you just wait six months and then ram another AFD through until you eventually get what you want or someone procedurally stomps on you. Elizium23 (talk) 06:28, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks but that doesn't seem like a particularly subtle or well reasoned consideration of the WP:TENYEARTEST, WP:NOTNEWS, or WP:TOOSOON. Nor of whether a merger, or alternatively a condensing of the aftermath article could be warranted. Just more personal attacks. Classy. This isn't a standard AfD being reconsidered it is one that took place within a week of the one event from which the article topic gained any notoriety. It is hardly a surprise that it might be hard to judge his long term notabily a week and a half on. Maybe a merger will be appropriate, maybe not. Sorry, you seem to be having a hard time with these concepts. I also didn't realize that he had a whole paragraph about him in the aftermath article already (or does now anyway), and likely will have more if there is a trial or he pleads guilty. Now basically his entire reason for notoriety is dealt with in the aftermath article already. But I gather we are not allowed to consider any of that ever, because well, it bothers you... so have a swell day and I'll see you in six months when you have chilled out a bit.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 07:44, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Many books will be written about the 2021 storming of the U.S. Capitol. Many PhD theses as well. The vast majority will devote significant coverage to Jake Angeli. He's notable. This article and its curated references will be an exceptionally useful resource to those authors and academics. Removing or redirecting or suppressing this article would be as bizarre as Angeli is widely perceived to be. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 08:00, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

I am sure that any books written about the event will have a picture of Angeli but he will probably not merit a great number of words. Although highly visible, he isn't known as a leader or organizer. He's just there. It will be interesting to see if there is anything more to say about him after his court cases have wrapped up. I suspect this will eventually get merged into a larger article but there's no rush. Mo Billings (talk) 18:35, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

I disagree, Mo Billings. Any deep analysis of January 6 will include detailed descriptions of the various factions among the insurrectionists: Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, Three Percenters and others, especially QAnon. He is by far the most visible of the QAnon insurrectionists, and historians will try very hard to figure out what makes him tick, in the context of understanding that particular cult. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:41, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

He's the Soo Catwoman of QAnon. Let's meet on your talk page in 10 years to see how things turn out. Mo Billings (talk) 18:19, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I've been noticing lately that his costume/get-up is now part of the popular culture vernacular. See this, for example, and this and this. Possibly (talk) 07:33, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Michael Ramirez, eh? JA is absolutely having his 15 minutes (and perhaps more).— Preceding unsigned comment added by Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk • contribs)

This edit request to Jake Angeli has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Jake Angeli is listed as an "American Activist" and I suggest that be edited to "American Insurrectionist". I base this change on the fact that he was convicted of being a member of the treasonous group that attacked the American Capitol on January 6, 2021. Leaving him labeled as an "Activist" could cause others to be inspired to do similar acts. Source Link: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/arizona-man-sentenced-41-months-prison-felony-charge-jan-6-capitol-breach 184.90.232.74 (talk) 20:29, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Melmann 20:50, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

His insurrectionist activity was a one time event, but he was already known for being an activist long before January 6th. As far as anyone else "being inspired to do similar acts", I think the conviction will sway them more than whether he is labeled an activist or insurrectionist on Wikipedia. - Adolphus79 (talk) 23:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

HE is an American TERRORIST, please correct this . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.55.176.27 (talk) 03:08, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

The inmate locator (BOP register # 24866-509) shows him currently at FCI Safford, could this be added to the article? 108.4.243.218 (talk) 15:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Added it, seems non-controversial. Not sure how to source it. Maybe someone else will comment. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 22:47, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

The latest episode of Family Guy made a visual reference to this individual. I'm not clear if it should warrant a reference in the popular culture section or not, but passing it along. Surv1v4l1st ^{╠Talk║Contribs╣} 04:22, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

If you do not have a reliable secondary source which draws conclusions, it's WP:OR and WP:UNDUE... Elizium23 (talk) 04:27, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Back in January, I supported the Jake Angeli title because that seemed to be what most reliable sources called him. In recent months, it seems thst most reliable sources call him by his short legal name of Jacob Chansley. I have now concluded that the article should be moved to Jacob Chansley. Feedback welcomed. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:44, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

I agree. We could be BOLD (citing COMMONNAME) or open a move discussion if you think there would be objection to that reasoning. Kingsif (talk) 19:25, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

There is no mention of "Angeli" on the BBC world news sections on the riot or his conviction. Where did "Angeli" come from? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59253090 2A00:23C8:8F9F:4801:5141:2FE9:8F86:5686 (talk) 20:32, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Googling "Jake Angeli" at the bbc.co.uk website returns several articles. -- Pemilligan (talk) 18:53, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

The wiki article is missing information to humanize him, including that he’s a stay at home dad, or any information about his personal situation. Thoreaulylazy (talk) 03:18, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Can you provide reliable sources for this information? - Adolphus79 (talk) 03:42, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

In some sense, that type of thing is trivia. Obviously it is part of who he is, but the only reason there is an article about him here is because of his activities at the Capitol, his arrest, and his charges. That is naturally going to be the focus of this article. Mo Billings (talk) 04:28, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

• The big things when covering personal information of that sort is that there needs to be quite a bit of coverage in reliable sources to back this up. Not just to verify the claims, but also to justify adding this into the article. Keep in mind that while Angeli has received enough coverage to warrant being on Wikipedia (whether he wants to be or not), his family likely has not. There may also be potential for real world harm for any mention of them, even without naming them, which is another reason Wikipedia tends to leave off information about spouses and kids. Other non-family information tends to fall within this area as well. As far as humanizing goes, that's not really Wikipedia's purpose. The site's purpose is to document notable topics. In many cases this results in an article about the given topic only covering what specific event(s), works, or so on that made them notable. Even in non-controversial cases the media/RS tends to center upon the notability giving elements, so this limits what Wikipedia can generally include. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 14:37, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

How relevant or notable is, for example, him being a stay at home dad? Explicit efforts to "humanize" Chansley would seem to be showing interest in mitigating his criminal acts by portraying him as someone who wouldn't normal commit those acts ("but hes a good person"). This falls outside the purview of a wikipedia article. Petzl (talk) 08:10, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

How would he have a Dec 6 2023 release date from a 41-month prison sentence (= 3 years and 5 months)? Counting from Jan 21 3 years and 5 months later should be June 24. Dec 23 would be short before 3 years. --Blobstar (talk) 11:39, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

New math…lol The release date must have factored in by working time off, or information given. Easeltine (talk) 14:31, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Now it's even shortened to July 23. Where does that come from? --Blobstar (talk) 14:10, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

The release date comes from the cited source ("Federal Prison Info - Safford FCI". Inmate Intake. Retrieved February 13, 2023.). We don't have a source for why it has changed, and we don't really need one in order to list the release date. -- Pemilligan (talk) 20:49, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

His Early Life sections seems to be missing a lot of information, like where he was born and who his father was, also family background. Leasnam (talk) 04:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Do you have any WP:BLP-good sources for content on this? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:05, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Some sources to make the page:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/03/08/tucker_carlson_capitol_police_escorted_qanon_shaman_around_jan_6_committee_withheld_footage_from_attorneys.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.62.75.106 (talk) 07:03, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

https://conandaily.com/2021/01/07/jake-angeli-biography-13-things-about-q-shaman-from-phoenix-arizona/

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/who-is-the-horned-man-who-stormed-the-capitol/news-story/de6853d19e8681a04aa0ee50c6e52b10

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/07/jake-angeli-qanon-shaman-arizona-heart-capitol-riots/

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2096968/qanon-shaman-jake-angeli-capitol/

https://www.thefocus.news/business/jake-angeli/

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2021/01/06/arizona-qanon-supporter-jake-angeli-joins-storming-u-s-capitol/6568513002/

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2019/09/20/climate-change-march-downtown-phoenix-global-youth-climate-strike/2357094001/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.237.30 (talk) 00:09, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

--Topjur01 (talk) 14:23, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Possible WP:WPNOTRS problems, but in case useful, some links from prior to the Capitol storming:
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-ddgys-c51af9
https://www.linkedin.com/in/yellowstone-wolf-246aa7174/
Jonathan Deamer (talk) 10:26, 10 January 2021 (UTC)