Talk:Jim Morrison/Archive 2

Do we really need the fantastical claims of Sam Bernett, as related in an article for the British tabloid the Daily Mail, included in this article? ("Death," Paragraph 5) There seems to plenty of support for the argument that Morrison died in his apartment of heart failure brought on by a heroin overdose. His girlfriend Pamela Courson was a regular user, and was with him in the apartment the night he died. She said they'd snorted heroin together that night. Morrison was not a regular user, and "China White," a particularly potent variety of the drug was widely available in Paris at the time. Maybe he knowingly snorted the drug, which seems likely, as he knew Courson was a regular user; or he may have mistook it for cocaine. ("Good heroin. Looks like cocaine in small amounts, but is actually kind of brown. It is a snortable form." --"china white," Urban Dictionary, Def. #2. Richard Head, June 17, 2003. Accessed 2015-05-28.) In any case, Courson said he became ill and vomited blood. He may have had a bleeding ulcer, given his excessive drinking, and it's common for people to become nauseous and vomit after snorting narcotics. (I puked from the IV morphine given to me after spinal surgery.) According to Courson, he then felt better and decided to have a bath; she went to sleep. Courson has given various accounts re Morrison's death -- junkies are notorious liars -- but this account, given to Danny Sugerman and Alain Ronay, rings true.

So could we PLEASE delete the material from the Daily Mail article, "The shocking truth about how my pal Jim Morrison REALLY died?" Or at least scale it back. In it, club manager Sam Bernett claims those who know the truth were "sworn to secrecy." Isn't that always the case when highly-dubious conspiracy theories are promulgated?

Cheers, Rico402 (talk) 04:31, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Support removing Daily Mail/Bernett claims. The accounts of Ronay, Faithful and Courson, minus a few details, all line up. The publicity-seeker (Bernett) in the Mail's account does not. No way could all of those people have stayed quiet about seeing Jim. I don't consider his account credible. I think the Bernett claim, sourced to his book, merits only a clause in the following sentence(s) about conspiracy theories. Something like, "conspiracy theories have emerged over the years, such as Bernett, who claimed in (year) that Morrison OD'ed in his nightclub." - CorbieV^☊☼ 18:51, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes & No. While removing the dailymail reference is a good idea, as we have better(such as Classicrock*) that give a more complete accounting, Bernett's claims are not dubious. Indeed Patrick Chauvel was there and has corroborated Bernett's central claims.* I have edited this article(my first time apart from including info on documentaries on Morrison) in the hopes of rightly reflecting that Bernett's central claim, is not just his own. Lastly, from what I've read, it appears that Bernett's story and Faithfull's are both (largely) compatible. Bernett tells the story from: Club to Car, while Faithfull tells the story of: Apartment to Bathtub. With the only truly missing part of the puzzle being the story of what happened between the Car and the Apartment door. Although in saying that, I do have a caveat about Faithfull's account and tend to support Roger Steffens* account of Faithfull/Breteuil's final encounters with Morrison over Faithfull's recent publicity story itself. Roger also did TV interviews that I've seen in documentaries and are, if you're interested, already listed in the article.

Here's the classic rock reference*

https://web.archive.org/web/20141202064417/http://classicrock.teamrock.com/features/2014-11-10/l-a-woman-and-the-last-days-of-jim-morrison

What follows is my recent edits to the article, I also included a bit on Talitha Getty as the same 'murderer'(Breteuil's smack) is reported to have killed both of them, which I think warrants inclusion into the article for the obvious historical context reason.He claims that Morrison came to the club to buy heroin for Courson, used some himself and died in the bathroom,^[1] his body, with the help of Patrick Chauvel then moved back to the rue Beautreillis apartment and was placed into the bathtub by the two drug dealers, nicknamed ‘Le Chinois’ and ‘Le Petit Robert’,^[2] from whom Morrison had purchased the heroin.^[1] Bernett also claimed everyone in the club who has seen Morrison was then sworn to secrecy^[3] and that some of the witnesses immediately left the country. There have been many other conspiracy theories surrounding Morrison's death^[4][5] but are less supported by witnesses than are the accounts of Ronay and Courson.^[6]

The same batch of French Connection heroin, supplied by Jean De Breiteuil's two dealers,^[7] that Marianne Faithfull claims killed Jim Morrison, is also implicated in the death of actress, style icon and and prior lover of Breiteuil,^[8] Talitha Getty. Who died 11 days after Jim Morrison, of an overdose in Rome.^[9][10]

I've compressed the section a bit more. I still think it's too much attention for Bernett. Ronay, Courson, and Faithfull's explanations line up better, and they really have/had nothing to gain in saying what they did. - CorbieV^☊☼ 21:10, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

In your edit summary you regard Bernett's account as "BS", you obviously have a strong personal feeling towards this matter. Not least of which is seen when you claim that "they really have/had nothing to gain in saying what they did.",, when to run through them. They all had something to gain. (1) Ronay had something to gain as he helped cover-up the truth, bribed a french official to look the other way. (2) Varda organized the "doctor" that forged his death certificate. A doctor who has since vanished(probably never existed in the first place), again a criminal offense. (3) Courson was an addict and was probably just more concerned with how to speed up getting her next fix so lied constantly about what happened. (4) Faithfull had her 2014 revelation of remembering just prior to the release of her new book/album or whatever she was peddling along with her well timed morrison revelations. So profit motive is there. None of them seem to have had the slightest desire to get justice for Morrison and put an end to Breteuil's murderous drug empire.

I digress, We need to (1) include John Densmore's(the doors drummer) interview were he states that he believes Jim died in the club. An interview given before Bernett's book mind you.

(2) Include Roger Steffens account, that puts Faithfull in the vicinity, I've seen documentary interviews he gave.

We also need to (3) include the documentary interview of what I beleive is Le Petit Robert. Who also discusses lifting Morrison out of the club/"on his back".

31.200.172.50 (talk) 20:45, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Angry IP editor, please comment on content, not contributors. The priority here is the 'pedia. You are deleting mention of the people who were there on the day he died. And if you want to rule out what junkies said, you'll have to cut a lot of the sourcing in this, including your own. The Bernett story simply lacks credibility, and you are the one who looks to be pushing an agenda here. Still, we've included it, but there's no reason to give it more space than it deserves. Source things to WP:RS and WP:V, avoid undue weight, and discuss here first before promoting this Bernett stuff. Thanks. - CorbieV^☊☼ 22:43, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

I have no idea how you got the idea that I'm "angry", that's a false characterization. Secondly, the manner in which you have edited the page and have decided to frame the presenting of the Bernett story (i.e that he overdosed in the club and was carried out), glaring shouts out that you're injecting your own feelings (your earlier "BS" remark) into the article. I have since added yet another reference(an interview with Patrick Chauvel) that largely corroborates Bernett's central claim. Yet you have consistently attempt to present Bernett's claim as a conspiracy theory, and uncorroborated. Why?

178.167.152.146 (talk) 16:51, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Jim Morrison. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080622002601/http://www.rollingstone.com:80/artists/thedoors/biography to http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/thedoors/biography
• Attempted to fix sourcing for http://classicrock.teamrock.com/features/2014-11-10/l-a-woman-and-the-last-days-of-jim-morrison

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 20:50, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Jim Morrison. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080906104133/http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/thedoors/biography to http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/thedoors/biography

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 12:17, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

I thought that stuff was deemed not credible, or not relevant, long ago. At this point, anyone coming forward needs third-party corroboration and some indication of notability. Poofdragon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log), an interview with a human-interest columnist in a local paper, blog or fanzine, is simply not WP:RS. There are also other inaccurate things you are trying to insert based on these unreliable sources, and some are rather biased and bring up WP:BLP concerns. Inserting bare urls to those sorts of inadequate sources is not helpful, nor is removing WP:RS-sourced content that has been vetted by the attorneys of legit publishing houses. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 22:15, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

[[User:CorbieVreccan| Mary Werebelow was a very important relationship. She was listed as a relationship prior but it was deleted without explanation. I linked solid references in books that she was well known alto you wrote "Mary Werebelow or whoever she is". https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jim_Morrison&diff=697163101&oldid=697090314 Who can put this information back if verified? I did provide reliable sources on Mary Werbelow. It was not discussed prior altho it was just deleted by you and I undid: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jim_Morrison&diff=next&oldid=721009584 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jim_Morrison&diff=697163101&oldid=697090314 It is fact that she was a serious girlfriend and a simple search of Mary Werbelow and Jim Morrision will show this information exists in over 8 books.</ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=HjPcWkEPSR8C&pg=PT194&dq=jim+morrison+mary+werbelow&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAqZWQ8ufMAhWGHT4KHfeEDhsQ6AEIOzAF#v=onepage&q=jim%20morrison%20mary%20werbelow&f=false</ref></ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=4cuVn1VUBMEC&pg=PT106&dq=jim+morrison+mary+werbelow&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAqZWQ8ufMAhWGHT4KHfeEDhsQ6AEILjAD#v=onepage&q=jim%20morrison%20mary%20werbelow&f=false</ref></ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=4cuVn1VUBMEC&pg=PT106&dq=mary+werbelow+jim+morrison&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7wp-28ufMAhUCET4KHd6mCiAQ6AEIKDAC#v=onepage&q=mary%20werbelow%20jim%20morrison&f=false</ref> </ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=XtxLBAAAQBAJ&pg=PP14&dq=mary+werbelow+jim+morrison&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7wp-28ufMAhUCET4KHd6mCiAQ6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=mary%20werbelow%20jim%20morrison&f=false</ref></ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=_oRdvoEOoXMC&pg=PA34&dq=jim+morrison+mary+werbelow&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAqZWQ8ufMAhWGHT4KHfeEDhsQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=jim%20morrison%20mary%20werbelow&f=false</ref></ref>https://madameask.com/2014/10/06/interview-with-paul-ferrara-doors-photographer</ref>Poofdragon (talk) 06:02, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

"Manzarek says all the guys in film school were in love with Mary. She was gorgeous, and sweet on top of that. "She was Jim's first love. She held a deep place in his soul." The Doors' 11-minute ballad The End, Manzarek says, originally was "a short goodbye love song to Mary." (The famous oedipal parts were added later.)^[1] Poofdragon (talk) 19:04, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Go see The End (The Doors song) for the lyrics. We don't need them posted here. It's a WP:Copyvio and against WP policy.

This stuff about high school and college girlfriends, who, no offense intended, are notable only for having dated Morrison, are only worth a footnote in this article. The relationships section should only briefly describe, and then link to, the articles about people he was involved with who are WP:NOTABLE. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 05:25, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

CorbieVreccan has many edits in Patricia Kennealy's wikipedia page but on Jim Morrison's page it cannot be a one-party account. Jim had plenty of flings but never spent a significant of time, more than 2 weeks, with any woman between Mary Werbelow and Pamela Courson. These two women were acknowledged by Morrison's bandmates and family. Pamela Couson used Jim Morrison's last name with his knowledge and he named her the sole heir to his will. It would be a great exaggeration to call any other women in those times "girlfriends" as it is not documented that Jim Morrison did. Poofdragon (talk) 19:58, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

"Clpo13" removed the final paragraph several minutes ago. They ask why should it be there? It should be there because it cites a source that is reliable for Wikipedia: the book Wonderland Avenue by Danny Sugerman. The book even has its own Wikipedia article. Sugerman, who knew Jim Morrison personally and did drugs with him, says the following in that paragraph that should be restored: The exact circumstances of Morrison's death don't matter to anyone who did drugs or drank with Morrison. The circumstances shouldn't matter to Doors fans who never met him but they use drugs or drink too much as a tribute to his memory. What matters is that heart attack shmart attack, Morrison died from substance abuse, and if someone who never met him imitates his behavior, then let that person go ahead and save yourself.

Multiple editors have reverted this. Maybe you could add it to the article about the book or the author. zzz (talk) 01:53, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

No, you are the only editor who has reverted it since I removed the part about Danny Sugerman's "own descent into heroin addiction during the decade that followed his friend Morrison's death." Ok, so that shifted the focus to Sugerman's life.

But the current edit maintains the focus on Morrison's life, and the paragraph in question consists of facts, not opinions. Sugerman and many others who knew Morrison personally believe that exactly how he died doesn't matter. What matters is that he died from self-abuse. Ray Manzarek said the same, but I didn't include his statement. They had witnessed their friend's self-abuse for many months before he died but could do nothing about it. You are approving the article's inclusion of a questionable story about a Parisian nightclub owner who did not know Morrison personally and claims to have seen his dead body removed from the nightclub illegally. That man did not even claim to have witnessed Morrison's behavior. Danny Sugerman did witness it for a long time prior to the mysterious night in Paris. He authored or co-authored two books that this article uses as sources. Both have Sugerman's statements about Morrison's friends not caring exactly what happened in Paris on July 3, 1971. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.183.42.66 (talk) 02:44, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

See WP:BRD. No consensus for this "not caring exactly what happened"/"died from self-abuse [?]" tabloid-style moralising. Opinions that "exactly how he died doesn't matter" by definition have no place in a section about how he died. Btw I wasn't impressed with the Parisian nightclub owner, or Marianne Faithfull's version either, for that matter, but my opinion is irrelevant. zzz (talk) 02:55, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Let's not get mixed up. "Tabloid-style moralizing" means including stories from unreliable people such as the nightclub owner. These stories allegedly can help millions of people understand exactly how narcotics can kill you. The unreliable people are getting on in years and hope to make money from their stories about a very long time ago. Book publishing companies offer money even when the National Enquirer says your story doesn't appeal to Enquirer readers. This is the exact opposite of the attitude of people "not caring exactly what happened" because they accepted long ago that their friend had "died from self-abuse." They are the last people on Earth who would consider circulating a questionable story from a person who happened to be in Paris on July 3, 1971. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.183.42.50 (talk) 21:19, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Jim Morrison. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/thedoors/biography
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100713125858/http://www.tft.ucla.edu/alumni/notable-actors/ to http://www.tft.ucla.edu/alumni/notable-actors/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:26, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Seriously, folks, can Jim be considered being a pianist and a guitarist ? As I wrote in my edit summary of August 21, as far as I know, he has never played either guitar or piano, both on record and/or live. The short improvised passage we can see and hear in the movie Feast of Friends does not entitle him to be named as a pianist. Can anybody bring reliable proofs that he has really played guitar and / or piano during his career w/ The Doors ?

What's the use to mislead the reader, especailly young ones ? --Bibliorock (talk) 22:29, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

• I have removed the pianist and guitarist listings from the infobox. Both Densmore and Manzerek were specific in their books that his inability to play those instruments led to his offer to split the royalties evenly. Jusdafax 03:57, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Merci beaucoup :-) --Bibliorock (talk) 18:41, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Guitar no, but he did play rudimentary piano on a version of Orange County Suite that concluded Mystic Man: The Uncut Soft Parade Sessions 1968-69, a bootleg album. He played well enough to alternate between two chords. This was more significant than the Feast of Friends performance. However, since he did not play on any official recordings, I'm not sure it warrants being mentioned in the article. What do you think? Mentioning harmonica also seems questionable to me. Tidewater 2014 (talk) 23:12, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

I tried cleaning this section up a while back, but its grown exponentially again, so I have removed all the non-notable rumours and speculation. If it isn't reported in multiple reliable secondary sources, please leave it out. zzz (talk) 00:34, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

You have removed all the reliably referenced modern revelations, why? We have 2 independent references in relation to Marianne Faithful that you have totally erased.

185.51.72.144 (talk) 23:41, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

We really need to work on the Death section, as not even the police buy this "he died of heart failure" line.

What follows is my last major stab at it, but unless someone does a better job, I'll be coming back as time permits, to make the following more chronological, coherent and concise. -

Morrison joined Courson in Paris in March 1971, at an apartment he had rented on the rue Beautreillis (in the 4th arrondissement of Paris on the Right Bank). In letters he described going for long walks through the city, alone.^[2] During this time, he shaved his beard and lost some of the weight he had gained in the previous months.^[3] He died on July 3, 1971 at age 27.^{[4][5][6][excessive citations]} It was claimed by Courson, that she found him in a bathtub at his apartment. The official cause of death was listed as heart failure,^{[7][better source needed]} although no autopsy was performed, as despite it not being a legal necessity under French law, it is the normal or orthodox procedure when a young person dies suddenly. No autopsy was conducted in Morrison's particular case, due to the medical examiner having being bribed by director Agnes Varda, who had done so under the auspices of believing the story Courson told her, specifically that she and Morrison had not socialized with anyone else that night, nor did they speak to, or leave the apartment since coming back from the movies at around midnight.^[8][9]

In the epilogue of the revised issue of No One Here Gets Out Alive, Hopkins and Sugerman write that, aided at times, with the help of Ronay and Agnès Varda, Courson lied to the police who responded to the death scene. Later in her deposition, telling them amongst other things that Morrison never took drugs and unexplainably fabricating on her own, the story that she was Morrison's cousin. In the epilogue to No One Here Gets Out Alive, Hopkins says that 20 years after his death, Morrison's friends in Paris, photographer Alain Ronay and director Agnes Varda had broken their silence and given the detailed account of the events as they remember them; Courson had phoned Alain Ronay for help at approximately 8 am, and with the assistance of Varda, they rang for medical attention that then swiftly arrived at Morrison's apartment, before they themselves could get across the city. With Ronay and Varda's arrival, Courson was to tell them in private that she had called them only "shortly" after Morrison's death and that she and Morrison had taken heroin after a night of drinking. Morrison had been coughing badly, had gone to take a bath, and vomited blood." Courson would claim that Morrison appeared to recover and so she then went to sleep. When she awoke, Morrison was unresponsive, so she called Alain Ronay who then with the help of Varda, rang for medical attention.

Believing her story as true, Varda was eventually to use her connections amongst the upper-classes, to bribe a medical doctor to sign the document that stated James Douglas Morrison died of "heart failure". However, with the passage of years, the absence of an autopsy left many open questions regarding the cause of Morrison's death.^[3] In Wonderland Avenue, Danny Sugerman discussed his encounter with Courson after she returned to the United States, between 1971 to 1974. According to Sugerman's account of their conversations, while Courson frequently claimed that Morrison had died of an accidental heroin overdose, "snorting what he believed to be cocaine". Sugerman would later heavily caution, that Courson, who would herself die of Heroin in 1974, was an exceedingly unreliable person and prone to giving numerous contradictory versions of Morrison's death.^[10]

Furthermore, amongst the initiated, it is known that placing someone who has overdosed on Heroin in a bathtub of water at extremes of hot or cold, is a popular last-ditch revival tactic suggested by heroin dealers. With the rationalization being that it can adrenalize/shock the respiratory system back into action. Although sound in theory, its effectiveness becomes increasingly questionable when the drug user has been unresponsive for a large amount of time, along with the frequently overlooked concern of a fatal relapse event, upon the initial rush of adrenaline subsiding.^[11] Naturally, Courson, being of slight build, would have been incapable of lifting Morrison into the bathtub on her own.^[12]

In 2007, Sam Bernett, a former manager of the Rock 'n' Roll Circus nightclub, released a (French) book titled "The End: Jim Morrison",^[13] alleging that Morrison overdosed on heroin in his nightclub. He claims that Morrison went to the club to buy heroin for Courson, used some himself and died in the bathroom,^[13] and that his body was then moved by Vietnam Veteran Patrick Chauvel, who independently corroborates the move, along with two unidentified drug dealers, nicknamed ‘Le Chinois’ and ‘Le Petit Robert’ out the back of the Nightclub so as to prevent a scandal for the club and then, bundled into a taxi with the two dealers, which then drove to Morrison's rue Beautrellis apartment, passing several hospitals along the way.^{[13][14][15][16]} Apart from Chauvel, who had just seen a lot of "weird" stuff in Vietnam and couldn't say 100% that Morrison was dead at this time due to how carefully the others had placed him in the car,^[17] one of the other surviving patrons at the club who state that they helped move Morrison in this comatose or dead condition, was interviewed in the documentary Rock Poet: Jim Morrison (2010).^[16]

According to Bernett, the heroin was ultimately supplied by the aristocrat Jean de Breiteuil, the son of a French news magnate and an individual that has also been implicated in the overdose of model Talitha Getty, similarly, in July 1971. In his 2007 interviews Bernett revealed that the then girlfriend of de Breteuil, singer Marianne Faithfull was also in the club the night of Morrison's overdose but "Marianne never mentioned Jim again," Bernett says. "She won't talk about what happened in the club to this day." A spokesperson for the French police in 2007 stated that the new evidence will have to be considered.^[18]

This account of Bernett, is corroborated by a 1986 audio interview,^[19] between radio host Roger Steffens and Doors drummer John Densmore. In 1986 Steffens recounts that two days after Morrison's death, he was told by a shaking Marianne Faithfull and her lover Jean de Breiteuil in Marrakesh, of the details of Morrison's demise. With both Faithfull and Breiteuil having been in Morrison's apartment after his return from the nightclub and seeing him dead in the bathroom, a scene which motivated them to flee the country, flying to Tangier the next day and then on to Marrakesh, where Steffens happened to be living in 1971. Faithfull would consistently decline to comment on this thereafter until 2014.^[20] Steffens remarked that he found it amazing how Faithfull had ceased to publicly discuss the tragedy from 1971 up to the time of recording, 1986.^[19]

After decades of "no-comment",^[21] in 2014 Marianne Faithfull made the following claim; that she was awoken by a late-night phone call from an unspecified person and her boyfriend, de Breiteuil, then manically rushed over to Morrison's apartment "alone", on the night of his death. Faithfull while not specifically commenting on what Steffens nor Samual Bennett have written, has instead simply claimed that it was her boyfriend de Breiteuil who alone travelled to Morrison's apartment, as following this call, she claims to have been relatively uninterested, took some sedative drugs and fell back asleep.^[22][23]

However, as early as the 1990s Cameron Watson, an American working as a DJ in Paris in 1971, would give the account that while working in the Parisian nightclub La Bulle in July 1971. Two well dressed patrons, one of which being a well known drug dealer and the other being "Marianne Faithfull"^[24] had arrived in the early hours at his La Bulle club and told Watson, that Jim Morrison had just died. Watson, not keeping the secret then announced this over the P.A system to the few remaining patrons at the club. This was the first public announcement of Morrison's demise and which therefore seeded the beginning of the local parisian rumors, about a week before the official announcement of Morrison's death was confirmed.^[25] In his 1992 recollecting, Ronay states that rumors started by Marianne Faithfull had been circulating Paris before the official announcement.^[26][27]

^[8] Although silent on all these matters, in Marianne Faithfull's 2014 retelling, she states that upon returning from Morrison's apartment, De Breteuil beat her violently.^[28][23]

In the April 1992 issue of the French Magazine Paris Match,^[29] photographer Alain Ronay recounts the circumstances surrounding Morrison's death from approximately 8am onward. This multi-page feature publicized, amongst other details, such as, it being Ronay and director Agnes Varda who, upon Courson's request, were the first to call the emergency services. That when they had arrived, the fire service/first responders stated that Morrison had definitely been dead longer than the 1-2 hours that Courson was suggesting and that they were simply notified far too late for there to have been any hope of a successful Cardiopulmonary resuscitation/CPR.^[30]

While Courson would not directly engage with explaining this at the time, she did receive a phone call from Jean Breiteuil soon thereafter, who given the circumstances, was calling to find out how Courson had handled passing the death off with as innocent a story a possible, by selectively feeding narratives to the officials and her friends, that did not mention heroin, him, nor the Rock and Roll circus. Moreover, when the authorities had left the apartment, hours after 8 am, Ronay recounts that it was then that two individuals came to enter Morrison's apartment, "Jean", the "tall one" and the short one, "Jean-Louis". Agnes Varda recognized Jean as the "Count"/de Breiteuil, a known "drug-dealer", whereas the full identity of "Jean-louis" is not revealed. Together with Courson this trio again scoured the apartment for drug-paraphernalia. When asked by Ronay, if there was anything else in the house, Courson stated that "the first thing" she did was to flush all her own personal belongings, that might be incriminating, before the arrival of the fire-service medics.^[31][32][8]

Apart from three stories; Cameron Watson's account that 2 individuals had entered his club late at night and one of them told Watson that Morrison was dead,^[33] Marianne Faithfull's 2014 claim that De Breteuil received a late night call, immediately rushed over, and then on returning beat her and they then "immediated" flew off to Marrakesh,^[34][23] and finally, Roger Steffen's 1986 audio interview.^[19] It is not known with a a high level of certainty if de Breteuil had already been in Morrison's apartment before being witnessed arriving there some time after 8am, by both Ronay and Varda. Although in his 1992 recollecting of events, Ronay does state that De Breteuil was called by Courson at some point before Ronay and the authories had arrived. Moreover, upon arriving when the coast-was-clear and being denied entry into the apartment by Ronay and Agnes Varda, as to "not endanger the situation", De Breteuil aggressively dismissed their concerns by revealing, "Look, she was the one who called me." "I know everything. I really do." Once admitted entry at Courson's insistence, De Breteuil took Courson aside and spoke privately with her which was then followed with his partner Jean-Louis and Courson proceeding to complete a more thorough sweep of the house. De Breteuil similarly told Ronay he was leaving for Marrakesh to lay-low.^[35][36][8] A travel plan that is supported by Roger Steffens' earlier 1986 account, that implicates Faithfull as having been in Morrison's apartment.^[19]

In 2014, Marianne Faithfull stated that “Everybody connected to the death of this poor guy is dead now,”. “Except me.”^[37]

Over the next few hours and days, Courson's characteristically capricious actions, would exacerbate both Ronay and Varda, including; the burning of "drug stories" that may have incriminated Morrison or Courson, the inappropriately timed desire to steal the wardrobed fur-coat that belonged to the owner of the apartment Morrison had been renting,^{[38][39] [8]} enquiring about if she could have Morrison-a young man's body-cremated and the dismissal of the strong recommendations of the stay-at-home-mortician, to not sleep alone in the same room as Morrison's iced body for the 3 or so days that it would take between his death and Ronay securing a plot for Morrison in Père Lachaise Cemetery.^[40][41]

At his funeral, according to a Madame Colinette, who was at Père Lachaise Cemetery mourning the recent loss of her husband,^[42] the ceremony was "pitiful", with Madame Colinette stating that several of the attendants muttered a few words, threw a few flowers over the casket, then went about leaving hastily, within minutes, as if their lives depended upon it.^[42] Those who attended included Alain Ronay, Agnès Varda, Bill Siddons (Doors manager), Courson, and Robin Wertle (Morrison's Canadian private secretary at the time for a few months).^[42]

During the production of the Oliver Stone, The Doors (film), Courson's father, "Corky" Courson, agreed to hand over the rights for the film with the one condition that his daughter Pamela Courson, would not be shown to have been involved in Morrison's death.^[43]

Boundarylayer (talk) 18:29, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

The once fairly well corroborated article by Rainer Moddemann of the Doors Quarterly, and now author of a larger book published on the subject, has a number of notable errors, including in relation to who Jomo and the Smoothies were. Otherwise it is, ok. This is just a heads-up to other editors, that while it pieced together some of what was known in 1999, it is not gospel.

https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20160302203954/http://home.arcor.de:80/doorsquarterlyonline/quietday.htm

Boundarylayer (talk) 23:42, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

My understanding is that Jim's grave was actually obtained on a 30-year lease. When the remaining Doors had a televised reunion concert - I'm guessing around the late 1980s - Ray Manzarek was asked about the possibility of Jim's remains being removed. His reply was that Jim wasn't going anywhere, because he was the fourth most-visited site in Paris. My question is - since Jim is still in Pere Lachaise, does anyone have information on an agreement that allowed him to stay? Elsquared (talk) 07:57, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

The first mention I've ever come across that the grave was on a 30-year-lease (which seems bizarre!) is your post. Do you have any reliable sources for it? Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 13:32, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for the long delay in responding, I don't check my Wiki writing often. I've known about the lease for years, the only source I could remember was the reunion concert I mentioned previously. I did a quick search to find some sources, and the following all mention the lease: The Telegraph (London, England); ABC News (U.S. network); and the Daily News (New York City newspaper). The Telegraph article mentions the grave was leased "in perpetuity", but I'd never heard of a permanent lease before. (I've never added an external link to a Wiki article before, so I hope I did it correctly.) Elsquared (talk) 00:19, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Jim Morrison. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131004213850/http://ivbc.free.fr/AA-Histoire-9999-99-96.htm to http://ivbc.free.fr/AA-Histoire-9999-99-96.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080827015646/http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biography_story/1930%3A2450/1/Jim_Morrison.htm to http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biography_story/1930%3A2450/1/Jim_Morrison.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080827015646/http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biography_story/1930%3A2450/1/Jim_Morrison.htm to http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biography_story/1930%3A2450/1/Jim_Morrison.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160601070104/https://www.aravenabovepress.org/collections/celtic-family-magazine-collection/products/celtic-family-magazine-spring-2016-issue-11 to https://www.aravenabovepress.org/collections/celtic-family-magazine-collection/products/celtic-family-magazine-spring-2016-issue-11
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120309183527/http://www.ars-cartae.com/GAmm0000.htm to http://www.ars-cartae.com/GAmm0000.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150818061004/http://www.ars-cartae.com/GAmmsk04.htm to http://www.ars-cartae.com/GAmmsk04.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140101104050/http://kron.buzznet.com/user/journal/1082651/ville-valo-interview-transcribed/ to http://kron.buzznet.com/user/journal/1082651/ville-valo-interview-transcribed/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:16, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 11 external links on Jim Morrison. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/12/09/1965259/fla-officials-to-consider-pardon.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160810062932/http://www.doors.com/magazine/Judy_Huddleston2.html to http://www.doors.com/magazine/Judy_Huddleston2.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160211071034/http://www.doors.com/magazine/Judy_Huddleston.html to http://www.doors.com/magazine/Judy_Huddleston.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160417082742/http://www.doors.com/magazine/ballroomdays.html to http://www.doors.com/magazine/ballroomdays.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141103122700/http://www.thedoorsguide.com/research/lostparistapes.html to http://www.thedoorsguide.com/research/lostparistapes.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081227035435/http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/obituaries/20081128-9999-1m28morrison.html to http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/obituaries/20081128-9999-1m28morrison.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080613142621/http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_gx5221/is_2005/ai_n19141572/pg_2 to http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_gx5221/is_2005/ai_n19141572/pg_2
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101207052622/http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/6027/32782/33583 to http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/6027/32782/33583
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110729003305/http://www.rollingstone.com/music/photos/rolling-stone-readers-pick-the-best-lead-singers-of-all-time-20110412/5-jim-morrison-0003004 to http://www.rollingstone.com/music/photos/rolling-stone-readers-pick-the-best-lead-singers-of-all-time-20110412/5-jim-morrison-0003004
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080927230608/http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20051014/ai_n15713651 to http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20051014/ai_n15713651
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110610151444/http://www.biography.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=244810&airingid=260095 to http://www.biography.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=244810&airingid=260095

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:40, 22 April 2017 (UTC)