Talk:Karasi Bey

Image review

• Could you add a map? Borsoka (talk) 13:26, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

  Added. Aintabli (talk) 21:16, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

Source review

• Cahen & de Planhol: ISBN is missing.

  Template:Encyclopaedia of Islam, Second Edition is supposed to fill relevant information such as ISBN based on the volume number, but as can be seen on that page, it misses the ISBNs for volumes 1–4.

  In this case ignore the specific template, and use template "cite book".

  I added the relevant ISBN to the template. Aintabli (talk) 17:32, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

• Uzunçarşılı: place of publication is missing.

  Added.

• Zachariadou: ISBN is missing. Borsoka (talk) 13:26, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

  For some reason the ISBN is causing a checksum error, and I checked it multiple times, so I don't know what the problem is. It's supposed to be 760-7309-58-8. Aintabli (talk) 21:06, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

  I fixed the problem. Borsoka (talk) 08:17, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

• References 1, 2 and 8 checked. Borsoka (talk) 02:38, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

Comments

• @Aintabli: when do you think you can address the above issues? Borsoka (talk) 12:22, 16 February 2026 (UTC)

  Oops, apologies, I totally forgot about the GAR. I’ll address this today evening UTC or the day after. Aintabli (talk) 14:04, 16 February 2026 (UTC)

• As a first remark, texts "is thought to have" abound in the article. Consider deleting or rephrasing them.

  Should have removed most by now. Aintabli (talk) 17:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

• Do we know anything of Kalam?

  No, the info on the Karasids is overall scarce.

• Indicate that Tokat is it Anatolia, now in Turkey.

   Done

• Introduce Cahen, Bosworth and Zachariadou as orientalist/historian/Turkist/...

   Done

• ...the dynasty in northwestern Anatolia... Which dynasty?

  Specified the Karasids.

• Elizabeth Zachariadou notes that while "Malik Danishmend" is a mythical remote ancestor, the rest of the names mentioned in the epitaphs are echoed in contemporary sources, with Baghdi Bey or Yaghdi Bey being the father of Kalam Shah. Based on a mention of "Pagdinis" by the medieval writer George Pachymeres, Zachariadou states the reading of "Yaghdi Bey" should be ignored. I am totally lost. Who is who, who is connected to whom?

  Divided it into shorter sentences, slightly reworded and expanded. Aintabli (talk) 14:16, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

  • Kalam or Kalam Shah?

    They are essentially the same person, so they are interchangeable, with "Shah" being an honorific title. But I removed "shah" for consistency.

• ...as was the case in other Turkish emirates A link to "Turkish emirates"? Could you add some examples?

  Added an example from the source cited.

• ..."Kara Isa"... Some context or explanation ("a common Turkish name, meaning...", or something similiar)?

   Done

• ...by some authors Could you name one or two?

  Unfortunately, it was not specified by the source. Aintabli (talk) 17:13, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

• I miss a very short indtroduction (two or three sentences) about the political situation in Anatolia at the beginning of Karasi Bey's career.

   Done Aintabli (talk) 17:11, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

• Later Ottoman sources... Could you be more specific, for instance, by naming at least one, and adding the century when it was written?

  Unfortunately, the source cited simply refers to "Ottoman sources" and not a specific author. There is a list of sources but no inline citations, so I can't reliably trace which specific source it is. Aintabli (talk) 11:20, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

• Kalam and Karasi Bey are thought to have taken over the region around Balıkesir during... Who is the subject of the article Kalam or Karasi? If Karasi, he should be emphasised ("Karasi is thought to have cooperated with his father in ....", or something similar).> Who thinks that they seized the region? What is the basis for this assumption?

  Changed it to Karasi Bey, along with his father Kalam,. The region was previously under Byzantine control. I will add a paragraph as background info mentioning the region was ruled by the Byzantines, which I think should fix the problem.

• Cahen disputes historian Mordtmann's connection... I would rather first introduce Mordtmann's theory, and then its refusal by Cahen.

   Done

• ...allied with the Catalan Company and the Alans... Some context? With whom were they allied, with the Byzantines or with Karasi?

  Changed to Karasi expanded into Lesser Mysia and reached south bordering the Sarukhanids, following the futile western Anatolian campaigns in 1302–8 headed by the Byzantines and their allied mercenaries, the Catalan Company and the Alans

• ...Karasi is also known to have given support to the Sari Saltuk tribe... Who thinks this? Do we need to present this as an assumption, or is this a fact?

  It appears the source doesn't actually cast doubt on it, so I changed the wording.

• Karasi is thought to have died ... By whom?

  It's more of a general logical assumption instead of a minority viewpoint as his son was in control after that point, so I removed the phrase "thought to have".

• ...on later Ottoman sources... One or two examples?

  The source doesn't specify any specific sources and lacks inline citations, so I can't reliably trace where the info came from. Aintabli (talk) 11:40, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

• ...whereas Karasi's son Yakhshi is also known as Ajlan By whom? Borsoka (talk) 10:18, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

  The author of the source considers Yakhshi as Ajlan, and there's not even a mainstream viewpoint, so I reworded that part to align with WP:NPOV. Per my recent additions to Karasids#Ottoman acquisition, there's a wide range of suggestions on who "Ajlan" mentioned by the Ottoman sources could be. Aintabli (talk) 11:44, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

• (Lead) The name variation "Karasi Khan" is not verified in the main text.

   Done

• (Lead) Information on his death in the lead should be synchronized with the main text. Borsoka (talk) 09:35, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

  I assume you wanted me to mention the alternative death year in the lead. If so,  Done Aintabli (talk) 17:05, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

  Perhaps this info could be mentioned in a footnote. Borsoka (talk) 09:19, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

   Done Aintabli (talk) 16:59, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

  Hi @Borsoka, apologies for leaving this unfinished for some time, but I went over some of your comments in case I missed anything, and I think I addressed everything. Please let me know if there's anything else I must fix. Aintabli (talk) 17:35, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

• The first section contains a useful overview of Turkoman migrations into Anatolia, though the connection with Karasi Bey could perhaps be made a little clearer. My impression is that he was one of the local rulers who took advantage of the weakening and eventual disintegration of the Seljuk Sultanate. Borsoka (talk) 02:44, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

  @Borsoka, it is stated in the Reign section that Karasi and likely his father took over after the disintegration of the Sultanate of Rum. Though, the paragraph about the Turkoman migrations and the Reign section is interrupted by discussion of their ancestry. Although I said I would "expand" it, I appended one sentence to the paragraph about Turkoman migrations, describing that the Karasids were one of the Turkish elements who infiltrated this region during this period, which should at least transition the focus to the Karasids. Aintabli (talk) 21:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC)

• @Aintabli: your thoughts? Borsoka (talk) 02:52, 5 June 2026 (UTC)

  I will shortly expand that section. Apologies for the delay. Aintabli (talk) 10:32, 6 June 2026 (UTC)

I am glad to promote this thoroughly researched and interesting article. Borsoka (talk) 02:13, 28 June 2026 (UTC)