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Talk:Kurds/Archive 15

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Kurdish migration to Turkey

Kurds who fled Iran-Iraq war from 1988 Halabja : 60.000-120.000

Kurds fleeing the 1.Gulf War 1991 : 460.000

Kurds who fled civil war in Syria : 400.000 Syria civil war

ISIS terror Yezidis fled : 100.000

Kurdish population in Turkey: Kurdish population in Turkey before 1980 was around 9-11%. Iran-Iraq war of Halabja,First Gulf War,Gulf War 2,Syria civil war Began to increase, Today, the Kurdish population in this migration has reached 14-16%

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.178.45.153 (talk • contribs) 15:00, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Bullshit :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.250.15.59 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
If neither of you cite sources, no one is going to act either way. Please see WP:Verifiability for why we cite sources, and WP:Citing sources for how to do so. Thank you.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  10:18, 3 August 2015 (UTC)


Kurdish population is not correct , showing the political high Iran demographics Iran demographics — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.160.197.161 (talk) 20:48, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Judaism - again

It seems like the "Judaism" section is back in this article again, and that the 100-200k "Kurds in Israel" has been added back to the population figures. This is ridiculous, the Jews of Kurdistan are ethnic Jews. Again, that section could be added to the Kurdistan article. Shmayo (talk) 15:15, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Just noticed that the section was added today. Shmayo (talk) 15:21, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

That's not the truth, they're ethnic Assyrians and not Kurds and they are speaking a Jewish dialect of Assyrian Neo-Aramaic called "Targumic", Jews as an ethnicity doesn't exist for almost 2000 years — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.64.182.139 (talk) 19:59, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Flag of Iraqi Kurdistan is not the flag of all Kurdish groups

Various Kurdish organizations have many flags . Some of the flags are covered in article Kurdish flag , to have a view of how many flags that are used by many Kurdish groups , I present the temple about Kurdish nationalist organisations:

Then why the article , that is about all groups of Kurds , uses only one flag out of many ?--Alborz Fallah (talk) 11:50, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

There is one and only one Kurdish flag, and thats Flag of Kurdistan. Other flags are just organisatory ones. --Ahmetyal (talk) 19:03, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Is there consensus among all Kurds about that ? As I know almost all Kurdish populations that have connection with PKK ( Syrian Kurds and Turkey's Kurds ) never use the flag that is popular in Iraq ( and to some extent in Iran ) . Can you give a source about consensus among all Kurds to use one flag ( that flag ) ?--Alborz Fallah (talk) 21:35, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
The Kurdish flag is banned in Turkey, Syria and Iran so naturally you're not going to see it there as frequently as you see it in Iraq. The Flag of Kurdistan is used by all Kurds. This is visible during protests and demonstration outside of those countries where a Kurdish flag is usually present next to that of a political organization. See GettyImages and other news sites. Is there a reason to believe that the Flag of Kurdistan isn't the flag of all Kurds? ~ Zirguezi 22:38, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
To be used as official flag of all Kurdish groups , reliable sources are in need . In Wikipedia , we need RS for every sentence , but the opposite is not true : I mean I don't need to represent any sources to show that is NOT the flags of all groups . --Alborz Fallah (talk) 06:50, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
If you'd bothered to look actually read what I wrote you would have had your sources. Here are some more: 1234. Please refrain from changing the article until we've reached a consensus. ~ Zirguezi 20:31, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
Pardon , but I do bothered so much to read any sources , but there was only reverting and no source-giving . Anyway , the recent sources are as following : 1- Danilovich, has no page to look ! 2- Aziz, Mahir , In page 130 says nothing about Kurds of Syria or Turkey ( or etc ): it is talking about conflicts between central government of Iraq and autonomous Kurdish region of Iraq about their flags . 3- In the third source "Iraq : briefings and hearing" there is nothing about flag of kurdish Syrians or Turkish Kurds .--Alborz Fallah (talk) 08:03, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Links work for me. Here are the extracts:
  • The Kurdish flag has particular significance for this stateless nation. It was first hoisted to mark an independent Kurdistan(...) Since then, this red, white and green banner has been a rallying sign for all Kurds and a symbol of Kurdish national identity. ~ Dr Alex Danilovich
  • The flag for the Kurds represents their nationality and it functions as an important symbol for Kurdistanyati ~ Mahir A. Aziz
  • You can call this place Kurdistan (…) only the Kurdistan flag flies ~ Iraq : briefings and hearing
  • and the Peshmarga general gave Davidson a Kurdistan flag ~ Charles M. Grist
Nowhere is the distinction made between an Iraqi Kurdistan flag and a Syrian/Turkish/Iranian Kurdistan flag. The flag is just referred to as the flag of Kurdistan or Kurdish flag. Danilovich even states that it is for "all Kurds". Do you have a source that claims otherwise? If you do you should consider adding it to Flag of Kurdistan ~ Zirguezi 10:13, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Among the above , only Danilovich may have that understanding . Can you give the page ( and an online link if possible ) ?--Alborz Fallah (talk) 11:47, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Danilovich and the other sources prove that the flag is referred to as the flag of Kurdistan as opposed to the flag of Iraqi Kurdistan. If you think otherwise then please provide a source that says that there is a difference between. I don't have the links right now but I've added the page number to the article source. ~ Zirguezi 23:20, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
To prove that is flag of all groups , we need sources , but in asking for sources , we don't need RS to prove that is wrong . --Alborz Fallah (talk) 09:13, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
I'm from northern Kurdistan and I say Kurdistan flag is national flag of all Kurds. I think you're an Persian nationalist and you do not want the union of Kurds. Selocan49 (talk) 06:17, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
That's a personal attack for which you could be blocked. See WP:WIAPA: examples of blockable personal attacks includes "Using someone's affiliations as an ad hominem means of dismissing or discrediting their views—regardless". Asking for sources is a reasonable thing to do. Dismissing that request with a personal atack and with original research ("I'm from northern Kurdistan and I say Kurdistan is national flag") which is also prohibited is not acceptable. DeCausa (talk) 07:48, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Proposal for the deletion of all the galleries of personalities from the articles about ethnic groups

Seemingly there is a significant number of commentators which support the general removal of infobox collages. I think there is a great opportunity to get a general agreement on this matter. It is clear that it has to be a broad consensus, which must involve as many editors as possible, otherwise there is a big risk for this decision to be challenged in the near future. I opened a Request for comment process, hoping that more people will adhere to this proposal. Please comment here. TravisRade (talk) 23:06, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

That is not an RfC and it doesn't follow the RfC process. It's just a collection of opinions and has no authority. Liz Read! Talk! 23:14, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
The RfC was opened correctly. please comment at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups#Proposal_for_the_deletion_of_all_the_galleries_of_personalities_from_the_infoboxes_of_articles_about_ethnic_groups. Dkfldlksdjaskd (talk) 09:30, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Removed Propaganda Source with Incorrect Math

http://ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2012/9/turkey4166.htm

There's no such a publication, completely propaganda source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noyan Sipahi (talk • contribs) 16:21, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

You should add the kurdish professional Wrestler Heresh Kurdi in this article.

Wrong question

The discussion above about whether the tricolor flag with the yellow star is representative of Kurds in general is interesting, but it is somewhat beside the point here. The use of flags in connection with the heading of ethnic group infoboxes has been popular in some Wiki areas, but according to WP:MOSFLAG flags should not be used like that. Such flags have been removed from several "Kurds in xxx" articles and other "Ethnic group Y in zzz" articles, and they should not figure here either. If the discussion about the flag is to be continued, it should probably be discussed at Template talk:Kurds, where the flag, if applicable, is more relevant. --T*U (talk) 21:38, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks very much for this. It's something that's been nagging at the back of my mind about this discussion and I agree that we should not be using flags here. Doug Weller (talk) 21:59, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
I agree. Other pages like Pashtuns don't seem to have a flag either. ~ Zirguezi 12:17, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Falsified information

I deleted "Large number of Kurds in Iran show no interest in Kurdish nationalism,[158] especially Shia Kurds who even vigorously reject idea of autonomy, preferring direct rule from Tehran.[158][175] Iranian national identity is questioned only in the peripheral Kurdish Sunni regions.[181]" and replaced with "Large number of Kurds in Iran are neutral to Kurdish nationalism and barely one-third support the government especially Shia Kurds who even vigorously reject idea of autonomy, preferring direct rule from Tehran. Iranian national identity is questioned mainly in the Kurdish Sunni regions"

The source doesn't say that large number of Kurds in Iran show no interest in Kurdish nationalism, it says: ...Kurdistan Democratic Party of Iran (KDPI) must be set less promising factors. Barely one third of Iranian Kurds fell inside the republic, and of these a large number, perhaps a majority, remained passively neutral. Most, tribal Kurds still had no interest in Kurdish nationalism...

This means large number of Kurd in Iran are neutral to Kurdish nationalism. With Tribal Kurds he meant the Kurds in 80' and 90'. It is not possible you decide from it that large number of Kurds in Iran show no interest in Kurdish nationalism. Also, this source says, large number of the Kurd support autonomy in Iran. Source: McDowall, David (1992). "The Kurds: A Nation Denied". London: Minority Rights Publications p. 65. Ferakp (talk) 19:35, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

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Kurdish Political Situation

Hello! I believe someone must state the current political situation of the Kurds; somewhere along the lines of their hostility and constant attacks against their fellow Christian neighbors in Iraq. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.154.39.203 (talk) 00:59, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome to do it if you've a legitimate, non-anecdotal source. ~ Zirguezi 23:36, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

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Deism??

The religion category in this infobox mentions a deist minority among the Kurds. Can anybody provide a source for this? I haven't been able to find any references, and it seems on the face of it implausible that deism, a philosophical position associated with a particular time and place in the western tradition, would have a more than negligible following among a people with a completely different philosophical tradition. It seems most plausible to me that a previous editor has mis-characterized 'secularism' as a political position with 'deism' as a philosophical position. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.165.8.63 (talk) 14:46, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Deism is not necessarily a "position associated with a particular time and place in the western tradition". I'm not a student of philosophy, but generally "deism" can mean a faith in God that is not bound to a particular revealed scripture or religious authority. This position definitely exists among contemporary Kurds, and I think that's what is meant. If there is any specific reason why the word "deism" should not apply here, you would have to give more precise arguments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.206.129.241 (talk) 00:40, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Zand Period - Iran Civil War!

In the section pertaining to Zand period, it is stated that:

"After Nader's death, Iran fell into civil war, with multiple leaders trying to gain control over the country". This is absolutely incorrect. A History of Persia by Sir Percy Molesworth Sykes (1930) is used as a reference. This book, which has two volumes, makes no such assertions. In fact, there is not a single historian who has ever stated that Iran has ever experienced a civil war. This claim is balsas and without a shred of evidence.

I attempted to correct this mistake, by altering the following statement:

"After Nader's death, Iran fell into civil war, with multiple leaders trying to gain control over the country" to "after Nader's death, a number of popular uprisings began, with multiple leaders trying to gain control over the country".

This edit was reverted by WilliamThweatt with the following explanation: "sorry but "a number of popular uprisings with multiple leaders trying to gain control over the country" = Civil War".

The user WilliamThweatt is not at all informed in the subject matter and rather shockingly, deploys a personal, and rather creative interpretation of what is written. Putting aside how uninformed and simply, flat out wrong, the response "sorry but "a number of popular uprisings with multiple leaders trying to gain control over the country" = Civil War" is, creative interpretations of certain historical events, carry no value. Iran has never experienced a civil war in it's 7,000 years history, not even for a short period of time. This is a fact and not an opinion. The burden of proof is on those who reject this to provide evidence to the contrary.

1. I recommend making the following alteration: "after Nader's death, a number of popular uprisings began, with multiple leaders trying to gain control over the country";

2. Limit the authorities of the user WilliamThweatt who has demonstrated his/her lack of knowledge in the subject matter. It makes absolutely no sense for such a user to alter or revert a page when the said individual has no/limited knowledge in that area.

Perpetuation of false information needs to stop immediately. Wikipedia is not a propaganda platform. Individuals attempting to use it as such ought to be sanctioned.

Kind regards NuturalObserver (talk) 00:02, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

A number of sources mention civil war in Iran/Persia, including one between Artaxerxes II and Cyrus the Younger, eg , , and . Looks like there are historians who argue that there was at least one civil war.Then there's Persian Constitutional Revolution which seems to describe a civil war and calls it one, and another article Attempts at Constitutionalization in Iran#Civil War and Legacy of the Revolution which has a section on civil war (hm, aren't these duplicates?). As for the Zand period, "The restoration of Iranian control over the South Caucasus proved to he shortlived. and came to an abrupt end with the assassination of Nader Shah in 1747 Iran sank into renewed civil war..." "Persia's sufferings did not end with Nader's death. The greater part of the next 50 years was taken up by civil war as his empire split."(note the word "renewed"If anyone is going to be sanctioned by the way it would be you for the personal attack. Doug Weller talk 02:15, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
More details comments now at WP:RSN#Are these sources suitable for suggesting Iran/Persia has experienced civil war?. Doug Weller talk 14:40, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Kurdish population in Syria

The 4th edition of Atlas was used a source. The problem with the source:
1. The total population of Syria mentioned in the source is not valid anymore and it's old, even though the book was published in 2010. All newest sources give 22-24M, the Atlas is in 21M.
2. More than 9 sources are against Atlas source, they all give 8-15%, but Atlas gives 6% which is clearly not even close to other sources.
3. The World bank and all its sources are against Atlas numbers. [1]
4. CNN library 2015 shows many sources and it give 10%. [2]

The Atlas source was contradictory and against all other sources. Also, all newest sources are against it. That's why I removed it. Ferakp (talk) 17:25, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Kurdish population in Turkey

Source number 3 is not a valid proof. In the beginning it says "The Turkish Statistical Institute (TurkStat) recently published the birth records of Kurdish citizens in Turkey." But this is not true, these are not the birth records of Kurdish citizens, but the birth records of cities in the southeastern region of Turkey which are mainly populated by Kurds. This is not the same.

At the end there is a calculation how they determined the number of the Kurds in Turkey:

"But, taking 22.7 million as the number of Kurds and adding the 1 million who live in central Anatolia and other regions, then subtracting the number of citizens of other ethnicities who live in the Kurdish regions, leads to an acceptable figure of around 20 million."

But this calculation doesn't seem to be scientifical because nobody knows for sure how many Kurds live in central Anatolia or how many citizens of other ethnicities live in the Kurdish region. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.192.66.242 (talk) 05:58, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

World Factbook figures given in this article are interpreted incorrectly

"Turkish 70-75%, Kurdish 18%, other minorities 7-12% (2008 est.)"CIA Factbook Note that this is a 2008 estimate. The population is stated to be "79,414,269 (July 2015 est.)" The footnote also has an estimate from a 2002 book, given publication times the estimate is probably from 2001, ie 15 years old.

In other words, the Kurdish population of Turkey IN 2008 was estimated to be 18%. But what was the population then? Our article on Demographics of Turkey says 71,517,100 and one of the sources, an official Turkish one, so we end up with 12,873,078. Doug Weller talk 12:42, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2016

"estimates from 12 to 22.5 million" is incorrect. There are around 14m Kurds are living in Turkey. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_population Stardust al (talk) 09:29, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — JJMC89 (T·C) 20:39, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2016

http://ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2012/9/turkey4166.htm

In this article it says "there are 22,691,824 Kurds in Turkey, mostly born in Kurdish cities in the southeast of the country. Therefore, out of Turkey’s 74.7 million citizens, more than 30 percent are Kurds. These records only include people who have been registered at official government institutions." It does not mean that the people who born in these cities are Kurdish, vice versa it means they are Turkish because country is Turkey, and they are Turkish Citizens, not Kurdish citizens. It is not a reliable source.

Stardust al (talk) 09:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  14:06, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Kurds in Armenia

At the time of survey conducted, only 2 162 /two thousand one hundred sixty two/ people have identified themselves as Kurds (քուրդ, on the fifth line), according to the given source, which is National Statistic Service's last population census: here

35 308 /thirty five thousand three hundred and eight/ people have identified themselves as Yazidis (եզդի)․ Yazidis are a distinct ethno-religious group, although 'genetically' belonging to wider Kurdish genome. They did not and do not identify themselves as Kurds.

So the number in the intro box is just an approximately summed up one and does not represent the facts. So please change. 46.241.210.207 (talk) 13:17, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

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Iraqi Kurdistan–Rojava relations

I've created a draft article about relations between Iraqi Kurdistan and Rojava using a paragraph from Foreign relations of Rojava. It needs a lot of work and I'd truly appreciate some help in developing it. Charles Essie (talk) 23:05, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Kurds would never call themselves Iranian people

Kurds would never call themselves Iranian people, can someone please edit that? It's a very wrong fact Kurdiiaa (talk) 15:46, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

You should read the note at the head of the talk page: "This article has attracted repeated discussion whether Kurds are or are not Iranian, including the position that they instead be considered Median or Indo-European. At this time, a consensus has been reached that Kurds are often classified as Iranian, based on the reliable sources contained in the article. Before requesting the removal of the Iranian description, please familiarize yourself with the cited sources, as well as the prior discussions about this issue on this talk page and its archives. Your concerns may have already been addressed."--Ahmed Hallak (talk) 17:57, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Academic consensus has demonstrated that they are Iranian. By the way, the term Iranian refers to " Iranic", and not about being the citizen of Iran. I think you confuse these two. 185.80.129.193 (talk) 05:16, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Population of Kurds

The population of Kurds is about 41 million or more! Abdhm98 (talk) 22:27, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

According to the sources used in the article, the number is no more than 32 million. Here on Wikipedia we need to have "reliable sources" for any information we choose to add to articles. Yazan (talk) 16:14, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Zand and Lurs are Kurds.. they are not not seperate , Lurstan was a part of Kurdistan.

Please remove Iranian, change it to Zagros...

Kurds are not related to Iranian at all...Kurds are older. Kurds are in fact are Sumeerian and Median. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leonardosv (talk • contribs) 15:34, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 September 2017

Add: -> Regions with significant population. Diaspora-> Israel 200,000. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_Jews_in_Israel Schubidubi (talk) 17:09, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. — nihlus kryik  (talk) 18:46, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2017

In the second sentence of the first paragraph under the section titled "Medieval period", change "Micheal the Syrian" to "Michael the Syrian". Dandelong (talk) 16:20, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Done. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Tiderolls 16:28, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Kurdish comunnity in Israel

Today, there are almost 200,000 Kurdish Jews in Israel.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/pride-and-unlikely-guests-at-kurdish-jewish-festival/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_Jews_in_Israel — Preceding unsigned comment added by BorgCyber (talk • contribs) 20:31, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

See earlier discussions. These are not ethnic Kurds. Will be removing it from article again. Shmayo (talk) 16:34, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
Read WP:RS and WP:Verifiability, before imposing your personal opinion. They are self-identifying as Kurds - and described in thousands of sources, including scholarly books in Hebrew. And in Israel they are called Kurdim. And this is supported by many reliable sources published in Israel. Avaya1 (talk) 20:15, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, I am already well aware of the rules and policies. "Kurdish" in this sense is only geographical, as they are ethnic Jews and claim so. You keep talking about reliable sources without posting any. This have been up for discussion many times here. They are described as "Assyrian Jews" in some sources[3][4], does that make them ethnic Assyrian? The Jews of Kurdistan have been speaking Neo-Aramaic for centuries. Shmayo (talk) 10:20, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

What makes these Jews different from other Mizrahi Jews? It's just nonsense. Shmayo (talk) 10:26, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Those who persist on mentioning the 200K "Kurds" in the article are probably not familiar with the composition of the Israeli Jewish society. The Jewish population in Israel consists of Jews who migrated from many different regions and countries in which exiled Jews lived for the recent two and a half millennia. Most of the times, they didn't see themselves as part of the nation or ethnic groups they were surrounded by. Now that they are here in Israel, they carry their origin with some kind of pride, and calling themselves "Kurds" while not referring to the Kurdish ethnic and cultural life, whereas to the history and culture of Jews in Kurdistan. You can even consider their use of "Kurds" simply as a shorter name for "Jews from the Kurdistan Jewish community". Anyway, a better term for those 200K Jews would be Kurdish exodus, not Kurdish diaspora. They have been in diaspora while in Kurdistan. Now they are once again out of there. TalatlWIKI (talk) 16:46, 28 September 2017 (GMT+2)

Exactly. Jews have been living around different places in the Middle East for centuries. The question remains; what make these Jews any different from other Mizrahi Jews? Absolute nonsense to seriously claim that these Jews would be ethnic Kurds. While Jewish identity may be a complex subject, this is barely questionable. Shmayo (talk) 14:10, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

@Avaya1: I am waiting on some sort of reply, will be reverting back otherwise. Shmayo (talk) 18:41, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

I am an Israeli citizen, and the Kurdish Jews are called Kurds in Israel, and distinguish themselves as a separate identity to the many other Mizrahi Jewish groups. They also have (many of them) a Kurdish self-identity and indeed organize Kurdish events (all of which meets the fresh-hold for being identified as Kurds, as much as many other groups that come under this umbrella). This identity was indeed suppressed in Israel since the 1950s, with the belief that Jews of all backgrounds should form a 'melting pot'. But the identity exists nonetheless. All of this is personal discussion is kind of irrelevant though, to the single fact that wikipedia adheres to WP:NOTTRUTH and WP:RS and we have many reliable sources (not supporting the 200,000 figure), but supporting a figure of at least one hundred thousand. I recommend reading Ariel Sabar's book on the Kurdish Jews, which covers in depth the community in Israel and the discrimination they faced and also their connection to Assyrian peoples and the Aramaic language. https://www.amazon.com/My-Fathers-Paradise-Search-Familys/dp/1565129334 Avaya1 (talk) 08:02, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, but that is not enough. I asked you to provide reliable sources claiming that the Jews of Kurdistan would be ethnic Kurds, and I highly doubt there are any. As you are admitting that these are Mizrahi Jews, that is just contradicting. These Jews have been speaking Aramaic longer than the Kurds have been living in the areas of northern Iraq. Furthermore, I just provided a sources where they are called "Assyrian Jews", how come that is possible if it's an establish fact that they are Kurds. It is geographical, nothing else. They may have some cultural similarities, but that does not make them Kurds. Shmayo (talk) 22:41, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

The term 'Mizrahi Jews' refers to all the dozens of different Jewish communities from the Middle East (whether Indian, or Georgian, Yemeni or Moroccan). (Mizrahi means 'Eastern'). Each of these Jewish communities has an individual history in itself. Mizrahi Jews are not a single group - but just a way to put all the non-European Jews together. Kurdish Jews are culturally distinct from other Iraqi Jews, by centuries of different history, language, and culture.
Secondly, the concept of 'ethnic Kurd' does not really exist, as they are multi-ethnic, and this article is using a wider sense of Kurds, as it includes groups like Yazidis or Zazas, which are also separate groups that that speak different languages, and do not intermarry (Zazas even have a national movement, yet they are included here). There are hundreds of sources that these are called Kurds under the definition of the word used.
The terminology Kurdish is correct, as they are called Kurds (Kurdim) in Hebrew and by themselves - and we follow WP:RS and WP:NOTTRUTH - they are called Kurdish Jews or Jewish Kurds in the literature and we replicate this. The fact that they are also historical connections with Assyrians can be explained in the body of the text. It's not an either/or question.
Read here for an explanation that Kurds are not a single ethnicity, but a self-identification (note wiki generally follows self-identification) https://books.google.co.il/books?id=JZ6JAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA9&dq=jewish+kurds+ethnic+kurds+assyrian&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIuZf4tfTWAhWHnBoKHS9JDJg4ChDoAQg6MAQ#v=onepage&q=jewish%20kurds%20ethnic%20kurds%20assyrian&f=false
Here are example sources of terminology: https://books.google.co.il/books?id=DoNSXwb8D9EC&pg=PA150&dq=jewish+kurds&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy5Ir8sPTWAhXLcBoKHeKLC0YQ6AEIWjAJ#v=onepage&q=jewish%20kurds&f=false
https://books.google.co.il/books?id=xgXICQAAQBAJ&pg=PT224&dq=%22jewish+kurds%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiopvnitPTWAhXCuRoKHZdaCqUQ6AEINjAD#v=onepage&q=%22jewish%20kurds%22&f=falseAvaya1 (talk) 05:14, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
Sorry but it is not that simple. There is no need to muddy the waters. Yazidis speak Kurmanji (a Kurdish dialect) and Zazas speak a Northwestern Iranian dialect which is very close to Kurdish (that is the reason why they are often called as Kurds). However, we can't say this for the Jews from the region. They don't even speak an Iranian dialect, let alone Kurdish. The same issue has been heavily discussed before on WP. These Jews from Arab, Persian, Kurdish, Turkish areas are Hebrews. See the article of Arab Jews. Even though the term Arab Jew is sometimes used in the literature, they are still Hebrews and not the Arabs. 109.60.187.151 (talk) 07:08, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
I am pretty sure even you know those do not fall under WP:RS. Very weak comparison with the already controversial issue with Yazidis and Zazas. I fully agree with the user above. Shmayo (talk) 11:12, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

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Kurds in Armenia

Number of Kurdish population in Armenia stands at 2162 according to the latest, 2011 census. http://www.armstat.am/file/doc/99478353.pdf

There was a mini discussion and an unanswered request a zillion years ago

 Done L293D (☎ • ✎) 13:25, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 June 2018

Please either clarify or remove the last two sentences under Culture>Women. Either there's a myth being propagated that needs to be clearly laid out (and with attention to grammar: instead of 'In 1930s,' it should be 'In the 1930s,'), or this is a PoV edit that somehow slipped through. If you examine the linked article on Kurdish Women, no such myth is mentioned. Also the book referenced is a group of feminist essays on violence against women in Kurdish communities in Turkey, and the final sentence makes it unclear whether the book propagates the myth (as part of the activists mentioned?) or debunks it. Basically, these sentences either need to be clarified or removed entirely. 146.189.21.199 (talk) 19:55, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

 Done L293D (☎ • ✎) 02:16, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Kurdish Jews

It seems there's a small but very old community of Kurdish Jews. The German article briefly mentions it by giving the following source: H. Lehmann, F. Ala, S. Hedeyat, K. Montazemi, H. Karini Nejad, S. Lightman, A. C. Kopec, A. E. Mourant, P. Teesdale, D. Tills: The Hereditary Blood Factors of the Kurds of Iran. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. Series B, Biological Sciences 266, No. 876, Biological studies of Yemenite and Kurdish Jews in Israel and Other Groups in Southwest Asia (Oct. 18, 1973), p. 196. I came to the English article to find out more, but there's no mention here. --2003:71:4F4B:6332:8CC1:64A5:8A7E:9CF5 (talk) 02:26, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Nevermind, I've only looked at the section Religion. I've now found History of the Jews in Kurdistan. --2003:71:4F4B:6332:8CC1:64A5:8A7E:9CF5 (talk) 02:29, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Their financial crisis

Why nobody added what we have been going through since 2014 teachers and people who work for the government expects (police until recently)* getting 50% cut then to 75% and on top of that getting paid every 50 plus days instead of 30 days now it has been fixed in April 2018 but it hasn’t gone back to the full 100% , what about our bad electricity, what about the strange smell in the air around the city in summer night because of the oil instruction around the city. Malarzeus (talk) 22:24, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

I don't think it would fit this article to include those events. This page is about the Kurds as a people. The issues you described would better fit Iraqi Kurdistan. But even then I don't think it's very relevant as it is more newspaper content than encyclopedic. You're welcome to add it if you think otherwise. ~ Zirguezi 19:40, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 October 2018

X:The Kurds (Kurdish: کورد‎, Kurd) or the Kurdish people (Kurdish: گەلی کورد‎, Gelî kurd) comprise an Iranian ethnic group[24] of the Middle East, mostly inhabiting a contiguous area spanning adjacent parts of southeastern Turkey (Northern Kurdistan), northwestern Iran (Eastern Kurdistan), northern Iraq (Southern Kurdistan), and northern Syria (Western Kurdistan).[25] The Kurds are culturally, historically and linguistically classified as belonging to the Iranian peoples. Y: The Kurds are a Caucasian ethnic group, mostly inhabiting a contiguous area spanning adjacent parts of southeastern Turkey (Northern Kurdistan), northwestern Iran (Eastern Kurdistan), northern Iraq (Southern Kurdistan), and northern Syria (Western Kurdistan).[25]

Linguistically, the Kurds speak an Indo-Iranian language that falls into the Indo European language branch. Genetic analysis has shown that the Kurdish people are closely related to the Azeri, Armenian, Georgian, and Jewish peoples, descending from some common ancestors in the northern Near East region [5]

The Kurds are not an Iranian ethnic group but a Caucasian ethnic group. They speak an Iranian language but that does not make them Iranian. I have shown you (from a reliable website) that genetically Kurds are in fact a Caucasian ethnic group, originating from the Caucasus.Indo-European Caucasians: A) Ethnic groups speaking Iranian Indo-European languages include Kurds, Ossetians, Talysh, and That.[6] I have given you a genetic analysis that has been tested and proven to be correct by a reliable website. I hope that you understand my request and change X to Y. Mary.s.Tyler (talk) 04:57, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Your second source is a literal no-name blog with no genetic data and the study from the first source (HLA class II similarities in Iranian Kurds and Azeris) states this in the abstract: "The results of amova revealed no significant difference between these populations and other major ethnic groups of Iran."
Here is another study that fully contradicts your claims that Kurds are not genetically Iranian, the Fst map contained within says it all:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2005.00174.x
Your claim that Kurds are genetically related to Caucasian groups is true, but it ignores the fact that Persians and other West Iranic populations are also equally closely related to Caucasians as well, and even more closely related to Kurds.
I suggest you take the time to actually read the sources you've presented.
Qahramani44 (talk) 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Jewish Kurds

This article gives little information about jewish Kurds and their significance in kurdish history. It would be expected that it is elaborated in a column in respect of the 200 000 jewish kurds living in Israel and the somewhat 400-700 families left in Iraqi Kurdistan. These are substansial numbers considering this would mean that Israel would be in the top three of countries where people in the diaspora lives. It is also a relevant to explain how the mast majority of the Kurdish Jews in northern Iraq was expelled and rescued to Israel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.152.180.211 (talk) 04:05, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 October 2018

Requesting edit; particularly the phrase "of the Middle east" is misleading as Kurds are distributed throughout Central Asia and the Caucuses as well. Furthermore the term "middle east" is ambiguous as it can mislead the less knowledgeable readers to incorrect conclusions regarding Kurd ethnicity, language and origins. Xoltron (talk) 18:56, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —KuyaBriBriTalk 20:16, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
Suggesting replacing middle east with South West Asian and Central Asian — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xoltron (talk • contribs) 22:09, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

No sources

Some sections here are not backed up by sources, and thus needs to be re-formulated. Take a look at this: "The Kurds are culturally, historically, and linguistically classified as belonging to the Iranian peoples." None of the sources cited supports anything else than the LINGUISTICAL classification.

Also: "Iranian ethnic group". This is strangely backed up with a reference to a court judgement which says nothing about this other than the fact that Kurds are an ethnic group!

The fact that the introductory section is filled with the terms "Iranian", sets the standard för this entire page (which is of very low quality) - it stinks of Iranian nationalism (and consequently low self esteem), rather than academic reliabilty.

In fact, Kurdish, only as a LANGUAGE, belongs to the Iranian LAMGUAGE GROUP (which has nothing to do with the People of Iran, or with Iranian Ethnicity), and this is the only accepted connection, in academic circles, with the LINGUISTIC term "Iranian": just read any credible author in the field!

To summarise this page, all of this shows that Wikipedia succumbs under the pressure from non-academians, and attacks made by Iranian (Persian) nationalists. To remedy this,the introductory section should be CLEANSED of all terms "Iranian". 141.70.61.65 (talk)

>> None of the sources cited supports anything else than the LINGUISTICAL classification.
The third source ([28]) in that sentence states: "The classification of the Kurds among the Iranian nations is based mainly on linguistic and historical data". Furthermore, the section "Iran" in this same page states: "Unlike in other Kurdish-populated countries, there are strong ethnolinguistical and cultural ties between Kurds, Persians and others as Iranian peoples.[158]". If you have a problem with said classification, then provide your own sources to disprove them.
Lastly, I'll point out that every other pan-ethnic group (Turkic, Slavic, Germanic, etc.) is based on language ties first and foremost, so there's no reason Iranian pan-ethnic group should be held to any higher standard or scrutiny.
I realize that you, as an emotional Kurdish ultranationalist have some sort of visceral hatred of Persians, but that shouldn't get in the way of facts and sources that have already been provided. This is Wikipedia, not your personal ethno-sectarian echo chamber. -- Qahramani44 (talk) 15:27, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Excuse me,you only picked ONE of the sources, and took the citation out of its context, to back up the claim - the claim which is apparently made by yourself!
You simply CANNOT claim that "Kurds are Iranian" is backed up by the citation "Kurds and Persians are ethnolinguistically related" - what a terrible logic! Are you Iranian?
On the contrary, consensus amongst scholars would agree that the LINGUISTICAL classification is the ONLY one: just take a look at the pre-history of Iranians and Kurds, in any scholarly work!
By the way: WHAT ABOUT all the other sources that simply have nothing to do with the matter? What has that citation by a Dutch court (!) anything to do with the statements made in this Wikipedia page? What an abuse on TRUTH!
Finally, it is OBVIOUS that deluded-nationalist-Iranians are behind this page, by the entire introductory section, and that this shows that Wikipedia CANNOT belong anywhere academical! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.70.61.65 (talk) 18:18, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
The book by Micheal Izady (who himself is an ethnic Kurd), cited in the first sentence of the article, explicitly states phrases such as "Kurds were and are Iranic" (pg.37), "the Kurdish culture and language are indeed Iranic" (pg.198), and "Kurds are in fact, like the Persians, an Iranic people in speech and culture" (pg.198). Explain in what possible context could those phrases mean anything other than the fact that Kurds are an Iranic people.
>>You simply CANNOT claim that "Kurds are Iranian" is backed up by the citation "Kurds and Persians are ethnolinguistically related"
And yet that is exactly what the term "Iranian peoples" means: a group of ethnicities bound by common cultural, linguistic, and ancestral ties. Again, no different than the term "Germanic peoples" or "Turkic peoples". Explain why the former should be held to any different standards from the latter.
As for the other sources, those have been removed, those irrelevant sources have been replaced by better ones that also state that Kurds are ethnically Iranic.
>>Finally, it is OBVIOUS that deluded-nationalist-Iranians are behind this page,
The only delusional one here is you, you reject academic sources in favor of your own hurt feelings. You've yet to present any kind of source backing up your inane statements, and no, typing in caps lock is not a convincing argument to anyone above a room-temperature IQ. -- Qahramani44 (talk) 01:09, 02 February 2019 (UTC)
@Qahramani44: Judging by this IP's above comments, it appears quite obvious he/she is not here to build an encyclopedia. I would suggest you to ignore them and move forward. Best regards.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 06:54, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

“Iranic” vs “Iranian”

There is a reason that a semantic divide exists between German / Germanic, Turkish / Turkic, Italian / Italic etc ... and Iranian / Iranic is the same premise. Using “Iranian” confuses people as it is also used for current citizens from the nation of Iran. So when you say “Kurds are Iranian” in English, it appears as if you’re saying Kurdish people are all citizens of Iran, or fully reside within Iran, which is not the case, in fact over 75% of Kurds in the world live outside Iran’s current borders. Moreover, because there is a movement for greater cultural rights by Kurds within Iran, or what some Kurds might refer to as “Eastern Kurdistan / Rojhelat”, when the article unequivocally states in Wikipedia’s voice that Kurds are “Iranian” (rather than Iranic), it appears more like an WP:TENDENTIOUS attempt to erase Kurdish claims of sovereignty or a unique identity, than simply trying to inform the reader that Kurds share linguistic and cultural ties to Iranic peoples (a diverse Indo-European ethno-linguistic group), which is separate and aside from the current nation called Iran. It's for these reasons that I propose Iranic be used, rather than Iranian.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 07:03, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Let's see what's actually going on, in reality:
  • Instead of bringing your concerns to the talk page right from the start, you tried to remove a long-standing consensus note from the talk page on 31 January 2019 (calling it "undue, clean up").
  • On 31 January 2019, you removed "Iranian" from the first part of the lede.
  • On 3 February 2019, you did the same.
  • The following day, on 4 February 2019, you did the same once again.
We use "Iranian" in all articles for people's that belong to the ethno-linguistic "Iranian" group, be it Ossetians, Persian people, Pashtuns, Pamiris, etc. Kurds should be no exception. Looking at the compelling evidence, its not difficult to see that so far, you've been pursuing a WP:TENDENTIOUS editorial pattern on this article. - LouisAragon (talk) 12:35, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
More opinions are welcome @Doug Weller: @Meganesia: @Wikaviani: @Wario-Man: @HistoryofIran: @Khirurg: - LouisAragon (talk) 12:41, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
LouisAragon, the TP note solely focusing on the “Iranian” issue and nothing else is undue I believe, as it is essentially saying, “all of you who will predictably disagree with this questionable statement shouldn’t bring it up again.” The reason it continually arises is because it’s an incorrect way to phrase the issue and contradicts the majority of reliable sources. As for removing Iranian from the lead, I first adjusted it to “Iranic” instead and later removed a second mention of Kurds being Iranian in the first few sentences of the lead, as it was already included in paragraph 2 and in fact used the exact same reference. There is no need to say Kurds are Iranian 2 times in the first few sentences of the article. Lastly, going and tagging editors you are familiar with or people you think or know may agree with you is also against Wiki practices, as it potentially creates an artificial appearance of consensus where one may not exist.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 08:36, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

The common terms in English sources are Iranian (ethnolinguistic group or meta-ethnicity) and Iranian languages (language family) and we use common terms per WP guidelines. If some readers and users are too lazy to click on Iranian peoples and see what it means, then that's their problem and we can't do anything about it. Most articles about ethnic groups use similar pattern, e.g. "X are a <insert ethnolinguistic group here> ethnic group...". Kurds are not a special case here. --Wario-Man (talk) 14:38, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

"Using “Iranian” confuses people as it is also used for current citizens from the nation of Iran. So when you say “Kurds are Iranian” in English, it appears as if you’re saying Kurdish people are all citizens of Iran, or fully reside within Iran, which is not the case, in fact over 75% of Kurds in the world live outside Iran’s current borders." : irrelevant remark, nobody said that Kurds are all Iranian citizens. the word Iranian is used here in an ethnolinguistic sense, not as a citizenship or geographical location. In the same way, Pashtuns, Tajiks, Ossetians etc ... are Iranian peoples, even if most of them are neither Iranian citizens nor living in Iran.
"when the article unequivocally states in Wikipedia’s voice that Kurds are “Iranian” (rather than Iranic), it appears more like an WP:TENDENTIOUS attempt to erase Kurdish claims of sovereignty or a unique identity, than simply trying to inform the reader that Kurds share linguistic and cultural ties to Iranic peoples (a diverse Indo-European ethno-linguistic group), which is separate and aside from the current nation called Iran." : All other Iranian peoples also have a unique identity, nobody tries to erase anything, Kurds are one of the diverse ethno-linguistic group called "Iranian peoples".---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 16:36, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Unless it can be shown that "Iranic" really is the most common term used in reliable English language sources I agree with those that say "Iranian" is correct. Surely it can be accompanied where appropriate with something that clarifies what is meant. Doug Weller talk 19:18, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Everyone please see the below subsection, as the utilized Izady reference did not even present what was being claimed.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 09:41, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Izady reference

In lieu of Professor Mehrdad R. Izady’s work The Kurds: A Concise Handbook being used as the reference to say Kurds are “Iranian” in the first sentence, I went and looked at the book itself. And indeed it confirms my position and not the one stated, as Izady himself uses Iranic, not Iranian ... examples below:

  • Pg. 37, “Kurds were and are Iranic.”
  • Pg. 198, “The Kurdish culture and language are indeed Iranic.”
  • Pg. 168, has a graph that explicitly shows the Kurdish language as “West Iranic”.

Hence, since that is the reference being utilized, I am justified in correcting the information to be in line with the reference used.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 09:10, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran:, why are you reverting accurately cited material? Izady was the reference already there (I didn’t add it). I simply looked it up and saw that it was being inaccurately used. You can’t cite someone as a reference, but inaccurately portray what the reference says.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 12:59, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
That's not a valid argument at all. You know very well that the most common/accurate term is 'Iranian', not 'Iranic'. I'm a simple and honest man and therefor I gotta say this looks like pov-pushing to me. Also you're edit warring, reverting several users is not the answer. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:29, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
HistoryofIran, of course it’s valid. In fact, my position is probably the clearest and most undebatable position possible. All I am trying to do is make sure that the utilized reference is accurately reflected. The very first sentence of the article cites Izady's book, to support the claim that Kurds are "Iranian", despite the fact that Izady actually says they are “Iranic”. Izady even makes note of the dispute with these terms on pg. 198, when he points out that "... confusion that now exists even in scientific circles regarding the terms Iranian and Iranic (notions as distinct as German and Germanic)...”. The only ‘pov’ I am pushing is the one that says cited references must be used accurately. If a book says the sky is blue, you can’t utilize it to say the sky is green. This is actually worse than vandalism, as you are mischaracterizing the cited work of a living person (Izady). I adjusted the wording and included the exact page numbers and words Izady uses. Your claim is basically, "who cares what the reference we’re using says, I like it my way."  Redthoreau -- (talk) 15:52, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
@Redthoreau: that's a personal attack and shows a failure to assume good faith. Your argument seems to be that even if the term used by a reliable source is used by hardly anyone else because there's a more common English word, we have to use it. I just did a search on ""West iranic" language|dialect" and ""West iranian" language|dialect" in Google scholar. There were 23 hits for "iranic" and 1,050 for "Iranian". Results for Google books were similar, 439 to 4,600 . Doug Weller talk 16:05, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: That's not actually my position as it relates to the issue of Izady. My position is that we are utilizing Izady as a reference for a claim that is NOT what he says. In fact, he agrees with me, that Iranic is the correct term. So why are we citing someone to support a claim they do not make? As for word searches, "West Iranic" wouldn't be the right term to search as I don't even want to use that. My proposed term was Iranic, the exact one the utilized ref (Izady) uses.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 16:13, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
You gave "West Iranic" as an example and as it's more specific it's the easiest way to search. I'm sure there's a way to make it clear that when Izady says "Iranic" he means what most scholars call "Iranian". Doug Weller talk 16:23, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: your assumption is incorrect. Izady references this exact fact on page 198 and notes how "Iranian and Iranic" are "(notions as distinct as German and Germanic)". They are not the same thing or synonyms according to Izady. And he is the ONLY reference given in the first sentence.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 16:44, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Ok, that's his opinion. Are you arguing that that is the opinion of the majority of scholars? And the lead keeps changing, at one point there were 2 sources for "Iranic", one being Izady, the other being an encyclopedia that uses "Iranian". We need to standardise the terminology although of course we can at some place in the article show Izady's opinion so long as we can show others share his distinction. If they don't, then WP:UNDUE is relevant. I think we need a WP:RfC. Doug Weller talk 16:59, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Generally there is a lot of stuff that Izady says that is really questionable compared to that of well-known academic sources. His work has been criticised by some to be "heavy nationalistic". --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:10, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran:, if that's the case then why do you support him being used at all? Or if you don't, then you should provide additional sources for the claim. But if we use him as we currently are, we have to cite him correctly, which we currently are not doing.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 19:02, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

If you say we must use "Iranic" because Izady uses it, then that's a weak argument. How many other scholars use it? As I said, Iranian is the common term in academic sources and among scholars, and we should use it per WP guidelines. We don't invent terms and we don't try to make some terms popular on WP. I don't say using that term is wrong but what WP guidelines allow you to replace a common term with an uncommon one? Why do you think this article is special and requires some different stuff in comparison with other Iranian ethnic groups? --Wario-Man (talk) 18:29, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

@Wario-Man:, I am not inventing any terms. What I am saying is that if we are going to cite Izady for a claim, then we MUST use what Izady actually says. And he says they are Iranic, not Iranian. If “Iranian” is the common term in academic sources, then numerous ones should be provided so they can be evaluated. However, the lead is relying on Izady for 2 of the 3 references dealing with the Iranian claim, and that’s not what he claims. The 3rd is the Encyclopedia reference I discuss in the subsection below this one.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 18:57, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Encyclopedia reference in lead

There are currently 3 references used to justify stating that Kurds are "Iranian" in the disputed lead. Of those, 2 of the 3 are exactly the same, Izady's work The Kurds: A Concise Handbook (1992), which claims Kurds are "Iranic" not Iranian. I have tried to fix this but keep getting reverted. However, the 3rd reference is "Kurds". The Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th ed. Encyclopedia.com. 2014. However, I clicked on the --> link given. It's appears it’s not from 2014, but rather a collection of Encyclopedia entries from the years 1996 to 2004, and says various contradicting things in those editions at the link. Some of those claims at the link are (use ctrl+f):

  • "Although they live among them, Kurds are ethnically unrelated to Turks, Arabs, and Iranians." [no]
  • "Ethnically close to the Iranians" [maybe]
  • "The Kurds, along with the Tats, Talysh, and Baluchis, are Iranian people." [yes]
  • "Scholars debate whether the Kurds originally belonged to a group of Iranian (Indo-European–speaking) populations living around Lake Urmia who migrated westward during the seventh century b.c.e.; others emphasize the indigenous character of the Kurds living in the Taurus and Zagros mountain ranges since antiquity." [disputed]

So of all the sources in the entire lead that support saying Kurds are Iranian, 2 of the 3 use Iranic (Izady), and the 3rd says every combination from Kurds not being Iranian to being Iranian. That is not enough to meet WP:Reliable.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 18:13, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Though I personally prefer the term "Iranic" to be used over "Iranian" (to avoid confusion of pan-ethnicity with nationality), I will say that the article itself contains an additional source using the term "Iranian":
Kreyenbroek, Philip G.; Sperl, Stefan (1992). The Kurds: A Contemporary Overview. London; New York: Routledge.
Also I see no reason to remove the second mention in the lead, as other ethnicity pages (such as Azerbaijanis, Kazakhs) state their pan-ethnicity in the lead multiple times.
-- Qahramani44 (talk) 00:34, 06 February 2019 (UTC)

Jewish kurds?

Nothing about the 200 000 something kurdish jews? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:B882:1800:111A:4065:F6D6:73BD (talk) 04:13, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Are Kurds actually stateless?

Iran is the land of the Iranians, basically the Iranian ethnicities. Kurds are an Iranian peoples, therefore shouldn't the Kurds which don't live in Iran, not be classified as stateless due to this? With this same logic it could be said that Persians, Baluchis, Lurs, Azeris, Mazandaranis, Gilaks and the other Iranian peoples are stateless too. I think there needs to be some talk on this issue because when people say Kurds are "stateless" most of them aren't aware of this fact, probably also because Iran is very unique in this sense and I can't think of a nation or race like Iranians and this could lead to confusion by people which don't know this stuff? What do you all think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Migboy123 (talk • contribs) 07:30, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

See WP:FORUM. WP talk pages are not for forum-like discussions. How does this topic have any relevance to improvement of this article? Articles already clarifies that "statelessness". But what you wrote here is just a personal opinion without any source or discussing current citations. --Wario-Man (talk) 07:49, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Jewish Kurds

There is nothing more than 200,000 Kurdish Jews and they are Kurds who have kept their culture and language, really how do you dismiss them?

There are two pages concerning the Jews of Kurdistan: History of the Jews in Kurdistan and Kurdish Jews in Israel. They are not ethnically Kurdish and shouldn't be treated as such on Wikipedia. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 22:10, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Edit request

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 July 2019

Contradictory info at start and in article about ethnic origin

typo in section Antiquities under History

Syria section badly out of date

Kurdish studies

Request for Edit.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 December 2019

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

Religons

Recent Changes

Kurds inhabited area

Tattoos

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 June 2020

Are Kurds the largest ethnic group without their own state?

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 July 2020

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 October 2020

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2020

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 December 2020

Early history

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 February 2021

Kurds in Israel

Kurds are not Iranic, they are the indigenous peoples of Mesopotamia!

Jewish Kurds

copyedit request

Garnik Asatrian quotes on Kurdish issues?

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 May 2021

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2021

Alevi

Alevism is apart of Islam

Iranic People???

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 July 2021

"Iranicised tribes" and "pre-Iranic language"

The Kurds Nation.

Kurdish 100 million people

Can someone please add the date for one of the maps

Under the Religion section on the main page Muslim or Islam is not listed in bold as are the other listed religions

Flag doesn't belong to the Kurds

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 December 2021

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 December 2021

Kurds in Ukraine

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 April 2022

Disputed flag

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 July 2022

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 October 2022

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 November 2022

We should not refer Kurd as an "Iranian ethnic group"

Do we need to mention "Indo-European languages" in the lead para

Origin of kurds

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 January 2023

Kurds aren’t Iranian people change to summery pls thanks

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 March 2023

Kurds aren’t Iranian people change to summery pls

Disputing sourced material

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 April 2023

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 July 2023

Why wiki call Kurds iranians?

Prehistory

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 October 2023

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