Talk:Kurds/Archive 16

This edit request to Kurds has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Kurds in France

300,000^[1] Libnanun2025 (talk) 13:23, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Ultraodan (talk) 10:33, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

This edit request to Kurds has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add Kurdish diaspora map to infobox.

2600:6C50:7E00:7EC:7946:CD3B:A92E:FBBA (talk) 11:28, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: The description page does not properly provide the map's sources. Just like other content onwiki, it's not acceptable to cite Wikipedia itself. Remsense ‥ 论 11:37, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

In the truest sense of the word, it is a blog-like content. None of the sources provide any opinion, and the content is filled with personal impressions and conclusions based on the misuse of sources. 5.114.20.194 (talk) 06:09, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

This edit request to Kurds has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change Origin of word "Kurd", as the sources are not substantiated or academically produced. Sources are nonexistent or blog pages. HaninGoma312 (talk) 06:49, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. mwwv ^converse∫_edits 11:55, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

This edit request to Kurds has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Kurd Balikci-enes (talk) 11:12, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 11:25, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

The article currently uses outdated estimates for Kurdish populations in various countries. For example, in Syria, recent sources indicate about 2.5–3 million Kurds. Updating population figures across all relevant countries would improve accuracy and ensure the article reflects more recent demographic data. Reliable sources such as the CIA and BBC should be cited to support these revisions. VikiAzad (talk) 19:32, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

This edit request to Kurds has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

🧬 Genetic Origins of Kurds – Scientifically Informed Overview 1️⃣ Main Base: Ancient Zagros/Northern Mesopotamian Populations Estimated proportion: ~50–60 % Populations: Hurrians, Lullubi, Gutians, Subarians Reasoning: Kurds today live in the Zagros and Northern Mesopotamian mountains, historically home to these peoples. Haplogroups: J2 (20–30 %) → widespread in Bronze Age Northern Mesopotamia; typical of Hurrians/Lullubi/Gutians G2a (5–10 %) → Neolithic Zagros populations mtDNA H/U/K (50–60 %) → long-term maternal continuity Autosomal studies: show strong genetic similarity with ancient Zagros populations Conclusion: These populations form the main genetic line of Kurds 2️⃣ Iranian / Indo-Iranian Influence Estimated proportion: ~10–20 % Reasoning: Historical migrations from Eastern Iran and the steppe (Indo-Iranian tribes, Medes, Persians) Haplogroups: R1a, R1b → typical for steppe/Indo-Iranian populations Regional variation: stronger in eastern and southern Kurds, minor in western Kurds Clarification: Kurds are not genetically Iranian; the Iranian influence is mainly linguistic and cultural, with only a minor genetic contribution Conclusion: A secondary line, influencing regional variation 3️⃣ Semitic / Levant Contribution Estimated proportion: ~5–10 % Populations: Akkadians, Arameans, Phoenicians Reasoning: These groups lived south/north of Mesopotamia (Levant) Genetic influence: Haplogroups E1b1b, J1 → typical for Semitic populations Regional variation: more common in lowland areas and trade centers than in mountain villages Conclusion: Small, historically plausible influence through trade, migration, and conquest 4️⃣ Turkish / Oghuz Influence Estimated proportion: ~3–5 % Reasoning: Historical Seljuks and Ottomans in northwestern Kurdistan Haplogroups: partially C2, Q1 (steppe/Oghuz) Regional variation: mainly northwestern Kurds; minimal in mountain regions Conclusion: Minor admixture; Turkish political rule had little effect on Kurdish genetics 5️⃣ Other Local or Small Populations Estimated proportion: ~5–10 % Reasoning: Smaller neighboring populations (villages, minorities) contribute to regional variation Conclusion: Adds to genetic diversity but is not a dominant influence 🔹 Summary as a Plausible Percentage Table Origin / Influence Estimated Proportion Reasoning / Evidence Hurrians, Lullubi, Gutians, Subarians 50–60 % Dominant haplogroups J2, G2a, mtDNA H/U/K; autosomal analyses show continuity since Bronze Age Iranian / Indo-Iranian 10–20 % R1a/R1b haplogroups; steppe/Medes-Persian influence; mainly linguistic/cultural, minor genetic Semitic / Levant (Akkadians, Arameans) 5–10 % Haplogroups J1, E1b1b; stronger in lowlands/trade centers Turkish / Oghuz 3–5 % C2, Q1; minimal, mainly NW Kurds Other local small populations 5–10 % Additional regional lines 6️⃣ Scientific Conclusion The main genetic line of Kurds comes from the Zagros/Northern Mesopotamia region → plausibly linked to Hurrians, Lullubi, Gutians, Subarians Later influences (Iranians, Semitic peoples, Turks) exist but are regionally limited and minor Direct 1:1 descent from specific ancient peoples is impossible, but haplogroups provide a plausible mostly regional ancestry 💡 Layman’s Summary Kurds: genetically mostly Zagros/Northern Mesopotamia populations Minor contributions: from Iran, Levant, Turkey Haplogroups and autosomal data allow regional ancestry reconstruction, but not exact ethnic labeling Important: Kurds are not genetically Iranian; the Iranian link is primarily linguistic and cultural, with only a small genetic component

🧬 Genetic Origins of Kurds – Scientifically Informed Overview 1️⃣ Main Base: Ancient Zagros/Northern Mesopotamian Populations Estimated proportion: ~50–60 % Populations: Hurrians, Lullubi, Gutians, Subarians Reasoning: Kurds today live in the Zagros and Northern Mesopotamian mountains, historically home to these peoples. Haplogroups: J2 (20–30 %) → widespread in Bronze Age Northern Mesopotamia; typical of Hurrians/Lullubi/Gutians G2a (5–10 %) → Neolithic Zagros populations mtDNA H/U/K (50–60 %) → long-term maternal continuity Autosomal studies: show strong genetic similarity with ancient Zagros populations Conclusion: These populations form the main genetic line of Kurds 2️⃣ Iranian / Indo-Iranian Influence Estimated proportion: ~10–20 % Reasoning: Historical migrations from Eastern Iran and the steppe (Indo-Iranian tribes, Medes, Persians) Haplogroups: R1a, R1b → typical for steppe/Indo-Iranian populations Regional variation: stronger in eastern and southern Kurds, minor in western Kurds Clarification: Kurds are not genetically Iranian; the Iranian influence is mainly linguistic and cultural, with only a minor genetic contribution Conclusion: A secondary line, influencing regional variation 3️⃣ Semitic / Levant Contribution Estimated proportion: ~5–10 % Populations: Akkadians, Arameans, Phoenicians Reasoning: These groups lived south/north of Mesopotamia (Levant) Genetic influence: Haplogroups E1b1b, J1 → typical for Semitic populations Regional variation: more common in lowland areas and trade centers than in mountain villages Conclusion: Small, historically plausible influence through trade, migration, and conquest 4️⃣ Turkish / Oghuz Influence Estimated proportion: ~3–5 % Reasoning: Historical Seljuks and Ottomans in northwestern Kurdistan Haplogroups: partially C2, Q1 (steppe/Oghuz) Regional variation: mainly northwestern Kurds; minimal in mountain regions Conclusion: Minor admixture; Turkish political rule had little effect on Kurdish genetics 5️⃣ Other Local or Small Populations Estimated proportion: ~5–10 % Reasoning: Smaller neighboring populations (villages, minorities) contribute to regional variation Conclusion: Adds to genetic diversity but is not a dominant influence 🔹 Summary as a Plausible Percentage Table Origin / Influence Estimated Proportion Reasoning / Evidence Hurrians, Lullubi, Gutians, Subarians 50–60 % Dominant haplogroups J2, G2a, mtDNA H/U/K; autosomal analyses show continuity since Bronze Age Iranian / Indo-Iranian 10–20 % R1a/R1b haplogroups; steppe/Medes-Persian influence; mainly linguistic/cultural, minor genetic Semitic / Levant (Akkadians, Arameans) 5–10 % Haplogroups J1, E1b1b; stronger in lowlands/trade centers Turkish / Oghuz 3–5 % C2, Q1; minimal, mainly NW Kurds Other local small populations 5–10 % Additional regional lines 6️⃣ Scientific Conclusion The main genetic line of Kurds comes from the Zagros/Northern Mesopotamia region → plausibly linked to Hurrians, Lullubi, Gutians, Subarians Later influences (Iranians, Semitic peoples, Turks) exist but are regionally limited and minor Direct 1:1 descent from specific ancient peoples is impossible, but haplogroups provide a plausible mostly regional ancestry 💡 Layman’s Summary Kurds: genetically mostly Zagros/Northern Mesopotamia populations Minor contributions: from Iran, Levant, Turkey Haplogroups and autosomal data allow regional ancestry reconstruction, but not exact ethnic labeling Important: Kurds are not genetically Iranian; the Iranian link is primarily linguistic and cultural, with only a small genetic component

The Hurrians are considered one of the oldest known peoples in Mesopotamia and Anatolia. First evidence: around 3000 BCE (Late Chalcolithic / Early Bronze Age) Cultural peak: approximately 2300–1300 BCE, mainly in Northern Mesopotamia, the Zagros Mountains, and parts of Anatolia Decline / assimilation: after around 1200 BCE, the Hurrians disappeared as an independent group, though some were absorbed into other cultures like the Assyrians, Hittites, and Mitanni Conclusion: The Hurrians existed as a distinct people for at least 1,500–1,700 years, leaving lasting influences on the region’s culture, religion, and language. Muharrem Alp (talk) 04:18, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. jolielover♥talk 04:22, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

(also, this looks like the product of a LLM) jolielover♥talk 04:22, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

This edit request to Kurds has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Judaism added before Zoroastrian, as the popoulation of Kurdish Jews is higher

Thank you AsmarTiba (talk) 13:45, 11 September 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Day Creature (talk) 16:45, 11 September 2025 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Hello,

I’d like to request a revision to the opening sentence of the article, which currently reads:

“The Kurds, or the Kurdish people, are an Iranian ethnic group…”

This phrasing is problematic and potentially misleading:

• The term “Iranian”, while intended here in a linguistic sense, is often misinterpreted by readers as a reference to the modern nation-state of Iran or as implying national affiliation.
• The Kurds are a distinct ethnic group whose language is part of the Iranic branch of the Indo-Iranian language family — this is already clearly and accurately explained later in the article. This makes restating it in the lead unnecessary and confusing.
• Previous Talk Page discussions — now archived — reached consensus on avoiding this terminology in the lead to maintain clarity and neutrality.
• The reintroduction of this phrasing seems to reflect a particular editorial perspective. To ensure neutrality, I would suggest that the issue be reviewed by editors who haven’t previously been involved in pushing a specific regional or cultural framing.

Proposed change:

“The Kurds, or the Kurdish people, are an ethnic group native to the Middle East…”

This is neutral, accurate, and avoids confusing linguistic classification with ethnic or political identity in the first sentence.

I’d appreciate input from other editors — especially those not previously involved in this particular phrasing — and ask that archived discussions be considered when revisiting this issue.

Thanks.

--70.24.84.164 (talk) 03:08, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. See the notice at the top of the talk page; this issue has been discussed many times in the past, and a consensus has been reached to classify Kurds as Iranian. Your edit request also reads as if it were the output of an AI chatbot. Day Creature (talk) 16:23, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

"Iranic" is a linguistic and scholarly term referring to the family of languages and the people's that descend from Proto-Iranian, while "Iranian" refers to the modern nationality and citizens of the country Iran. Again, there was a censuses that Iranic was to be used, I'm not sure why it was changed back to "Iranian" recently. There is a reason this has been discussed since 2004. We keep going in circles due to certain Iranian wiki editors constantly changing it due to political and national motives. 70.24.84.164 (talk) 23:04, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

The redirect Kurdish genocide has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 November 13 § Kurdish genocide until a consensus is reached. ← Metallurgist (talk) 04:18, 13 November 2025 (UTC)

The "Genetics" subtopic within the "Kurds" page seems to be missing nuance and a lack of varying sources. The "genetics" page currently focuses on studies that base it's research mostly on haplogroup and mtDNA/yDNA research of the Kurds. This means that they mostly focus on the studies of the migration routes the ancestors of Kurds have taken. I find this to be inconclusive and not thorough enough to make claims that Kurds are more closely related to European groups than Caucasian groups. We know this contradicts other studies that highlight a strong connection to, for example, other local groups such as Caucasus-related ancient groups and Levant/Mesopotamia-related groups, not to mention the strong connection to Iranic speaking groups of course. The main problem here is that the genetics page is currently overrepresented by studies based on haplogroups, and not other forms of genetic or anthropologic research.

Since there's a seperate wikipage called "Origin of the Kurds" which is more thorough and contains a variety of studies with different perspectives (as views differ on genetic origins of Kurds), this page should either:

1) Give a more thorough summary of more than just ONE 2005 study based on haplogroups, and thus add more information based on more sources to make it a more consistent and factually correct subtopic

OR 2) Remove the current, inconclusive genetics analysis and just refer to the "Origin of the Kurds" wikipage, which as said before contains more thorough research.

Option 2 seems to be the more rational option as many other wikipages have subtopics where it refers to other wikipages for a more thorough overview. ~2025-37897-64 (talk) 14:06, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

This edit request to Kurds has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I want to add some pêşmerga pics some cool fighters ~2025-31467-05 (talk) 12:40, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

What specifically do you want to add? We can't just give anyone permission to edit an article, that's not how page protection works. Toast1454_TC 15:45, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Day Creature (talk) 16:31, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

@~2025-31467-05 Are the pictures available on Media related to Kurds/Archive 16 at Wikimedia Commons? ← Metallurgist (talk) 06:31, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

This edit request to Kurds has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

There is a immediate contradiction. Kurds are referred to as an "Iranic Ethnic Group" yet I see nothing of Iran within their genetics.

Please fix this; Change "Iranic Ethnic Group" to "Ethnic Group" once again. ~2025-37316-06 (talk) 03:10, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

 Not done. Yes, the consensus is that Kurds are considered Iranic. NotJamestack (✉️|📝) 03:25, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Not at all. The Kurdish Project even highlights Kurds as being their of their own heterogeneous ethnic group historically . Other sources such as and Origin of the Kurds#cite ref-15 also suggest a heterogeneous ethnic culture of Indo-European descent; the former even goes as far to claim Kurds to be Assyrian converts to Islam. Simply put, there is autonomy in Iran, but culturally, as these are crusader states, Kurds are more Iraqi. Kurds are not truly considered nomadic as your consensus might suggest. In their migration to Iran, from Mesopotamia, sure, they may have picked up some of there sociocultural norms, but the land, origins, and breadth of culture still lies in the lands of Anatolia and Iraq. There is no consensus that considers Kurds more Iranic than Heterogeneous or Iraqi.

I'd suggest removing the Iranic part(s) entirely, and to change "Iranic ethnic group" to "Heterogeneous ethnic group" as the actual consensus, within the culture itself, seems to truly depict.

Otherwise, change "Iranic ethnic group" to "Iraqi ethnic group". ~2025-37316-06 (talk) 18:47, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

It is quite literally in the Iranian peoples article. NotJamestack (✉️|📝) 18:49, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

I see nothing of the Kurds in that article. ~2025-37316-06 (talk) 18:52, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Even in the Ethnicities in Iran article, they define Kurds as their own Ethnicity (10% of the Iranian population) of their own sect (p4). Within this article, they even make the distinction they Kurds live in Iran (under the Kurds section), when starting these are Iranic People culturally, which can be considered true for those within this autonomy, not for all Kurds alike. Can you agree with this? ~2025-37316-06 (talk) 18:57, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Even in the Ethnicities in Iran article, they define Kurds as their own Ethnicity (10% of the Iranian population) of their own sect (p4). Within this article, they even make the distinction that Kurds live in Iran (under the Kurds section), when stating these are Iranic People culturally, which can be considered true for those within this autonomy, not for all Kurds alike. Can you agree with this? ~2025-37316-06 (talk) 18:58, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Even in the Ethnicities in Iran article, they define Kurds as their own Ethnicity (10% of the Iranian population) of their own sect (p4). Within this article, they even make the distinction that Kurds live in Iran (under the Kurds section), when stating these are Iranic People culturally, which can be considered true for those within this autonomy, not for all Kurds alike. Can you agree with this? ~2025-37316-06 (talk) 18:59, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

If your like to cite with articles, perhaps change Iranian peoples to Melting pot#:~:text=It can also create a,political, social and economic spheres. or Heterogeneous Society. ~2025-37316-06 (talk) 19:10, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

"Modern Iranian peoples include the Baloch, the Gilaks, the Kurds, the Lurs, the Mazanderanis, the Ossetians, the Pashtuns, the Persians, the Tats, the Tajiks, the Talysh, and the Wakhis."

"The Arabs conquered the Sassanid Empire of the Persians and seized much of the Byzantine Empire populated by the Kurds and others."

"Saladin, a noted adversary of the Crusaders, was an ethnic Kurd, while various empires centered in Iran (including the Safavids) re-established a modern dialect of Persian as the official language spoken throughout much of what is today Iran and the Caucasus."

These are all from the Iranian peoples page. NotJamestack (✉️|📝) 19:41, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Yes, but again this is only relative to the geography. Notice even your source says "ethnic Kurd". Therefore, Kurds are their own ethnicity, according to your own source. Antinthemiddie (talk) 19:46, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

To that I say...

"Iranian peoples, or Iranic peoples, are a diverse ethnolinguistic group who are identified chiefly by their native usage of any of the Iranian languages, which are a branch of the Indo-Iranian languages within the Indo-European language family."

Iranian peoples isn't really an ethnic group, but rather, it's ethnolinguistic. NotJamestack (✉️|📝) 20:18, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

I can agree with this, but then how can we call Kurds ethnically Iranian Peoples?

You just said "Iranian Peoples isn't really an ethnic group" and we know ethnic culture goes much deeper than simply spoken language.

Kurdish is the official language of Iraq, after all. Iraqis are not equivocally considered a Kurdish Ethnic Group? Do you agree? Antinthemiddie (talk) 20:31, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Please remember to adhere to WP:GS/KURD. HistoryofIran (talk) 21:46, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Same for you. Please do not interfere with the discussion as stated within WP:GS/KURD. Antinthemiddie (talk) 22:10, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

We could say that "Kurds are part of the Iranian ethnolinguistic group." or something else along those lines. NotJamestack (✉️|📝) 22:29, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

I'm okay with that! I obviously would love to see heterogeneous somewhere in there, but it is a great step in the right direction! Thank you for understanding! Antinthemiddie (talk) 22:39, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

In Wikipedia we follow WP:RS; not our own opinions/deductions (see also WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS). Per the previous RFC, there were numerous WP:RS which called them an Iranian/Iranic ethnic group, which ended up being the consensus for the lede. You have also been told to adhere to WP:GS/KURD multiple times now. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:04, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Did you check the sources? Please stop interfering in a productive conversation based on facts. Enough of the pretentious rhetoric; the sources were null, please check them. Antinthemiddie (talk) 23:06, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

So everyone in that RFC back then were discussing about "null" sources..? I think I've heard enough, and I also think it's clear that you don't care about WP:GS/KURD. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:12, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Why don't I see those sources then? Where and what are they? Antinthemiddie (talk) 23:14, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

What RFC are you talking about? You cannot make a reference to something, call it factual, and then not supply the reference. Antinthemiddie (talk) 23:14, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Kurds are an Iranian ethnic group, but arent Persian. Is there any preference for Iranic over Iranian? Also, the other groups seem to have inconsistency between Iranian ethnic group and Iranian people. ← Metallurgist (talk) 06:43, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

I'd say Iranic is preferred since it more clearly marks the separation between the nation and the ethnolinguistic group. cf. "German" and "Germanic", referring to either the nation or the ethnolinguistic group consisting of Germans, Swedes, Anglo-saxons etc Xashm (talk) 00:30, 7 January 2026 (UTC)

"An ethnolinguistic group (or ethno-linguistic group) is a group that is unified by both a common ethnicity and language." Mobin Karami (talk) 21:33, 4 December 2025 (UTC)

A presidential decree^[1] issued on 16 January 2026 by president Ahmed al-Sharaa recognized Kurdish cultural and linguistic rights, canceled the laws resulting from the 1962 al-Hasakah census, and restored Syrian citizenship to Kurds living in Syria, including those previously unregistered.

I would submit an edit request about this (in fact I copied the above paragraph from an edit request I made on the Kurds in Syria article), but I'm kinda tired and don't have the energy to read the entire article to see what needs editing for a "change X to Y" request. Soo I'll just put that out there to start the discussion about it. Kaislash (talk) 00:32, 17 January 2026 (UTC)