Talk:Michael Jackson/Archive 29

I wasn't able to restrict the reflist to only references in a given section. So this reflist applies to all section above. -Verapar (talk) 22:14, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

"raising hundreds of millions of dollars for beneficial causes and supporting more than 39 charities." Wouldn't "more than 39 charities" be 40 charities? Either say "dozens of charities" and leave the number non-specific, or get the exact number of charities. This type of faux-fact finding runs rampant through Wikipedia and is extremely annoying.24.211.211.161 (talk) 16:59, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Best Selling Male Artist of the Millennium Award (Millennium Awards at 2000 World Music Award) must be mentionned in the intro. World Music Award stated officially Michael Jackson as the world's best-selling recording-artist of all timevideo. That is BIG information especially coming from an official organisation as the World Music Award and not by a music company or official website. Waiting for changes. (Readerweb (talk) 18:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC))

We can't use Youtube, it isn't a reliable source. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:27, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

We can use it in some case see Wikipedia:External links/Perennial websites and in the case if its the official World Music Award page (meaning its not a copyrighted upload) it could be used. That said this has come up many times before and it was decided that the lead is not the proper place to list all his achievements - the main ones are mentioned at Michael Jackson#Honors and awards and the rest at List of awards received by Michael Jackson. This does not mean we cant change it just would need others to agree to as per WP:CCC. Moxy (talk) 18:36, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

For such a significant record, it should be straightforward to find a genuine reliable source. But yes, consensus needs to form for this factoid to be included in the lead. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:39, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, here is a reliable source : World Music Awards Millenium Awards. Reminder, this is big and huge information and needs to be shown on the intro. It's one of the most important and significant award. (Readerweb (talk) 18:47, 28 January 2011 (UTC))

Why is it "big and huge" and one of his most significant awards?Beach drifter (talk) 19:05, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually yes, being the world's best-selling recording-artist of all time is big information for a singer, it must be mentionned on the lead part of this wikipedia article. All references are available (from wikipedia, websites and youtube videos) then now we should proceed. (Readerweb (talk) 20:21, 28 January 2011 (UTC))

Its an award by non independant body. Nothing more. --LiamE (talk) 06:34, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I disagree, World Music Awards is an independant organisation that counts sales upon IFPI statistics. Anyway, the point is the Best Selling Male Artist of the Millennium Award is a very important achievement for any singer, i'm asking for this award to appear on the lead part (Readerweb (talk) 15:27, 29 January 2011 (UTC))

WMAs says that counts sales upon IFPI statistics, but in the end, the results are different. An example is 2010 WMAs, Michael Jackson would have win in many categories (like best selling artist, best selling US artist, etc...), but he wasn't nominated in no one categorie, except best selling album. WMAs is not anymore a real award cerimony, now it's only a cerimony for to promote the artists. (SJ (talk) 23:04, 29 January 2011 (UTC))

Michael Jackson asked Sega Games in 1989 in Japan to create a video game about him and his music. The game Michael Jackson's Moonwalker was released for the Sega Genesis and Arcade in 1990. In the following years he also worked with Sega on the games Space Channel 5 part 1 and 2. He is also reported to have contributed to the music on Sega's Sonic the Hedgehog Game. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aetas4500 (talk • contribs) 09:38, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I'd simply like to know where there is anything whatsoever to verify MJ playing musical instruments like the guitar, drums, piano. Any video? Pictures? The liner notes on his albums don't cut it for me, as Jackson was clearly prone to embellishments regarding a number of things. I've never in my life even seen a picture of him playing any of those, much less actual live proof of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.249.70 (talk) 21:59, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Guitar Picture 1 - http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/300/music11lq.jpg

Guitar Picture 2 - http://www.juliensauctions.com/auctions/2009/music-icons/michael-jackson-35.html

Guitar Picture 3 - http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2641/3935738970_be5f9cc5c1.jpg

Guitar Picture 4 - http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac59/Mjfan1_MJ/kytara.gif

Guitar Picture 5 - http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165496_175151345851838_100000709217068_432318_6064155_n.jpg

Guitar Picture 6 - http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165790_175151519185154_100000709217068_432334_7109151_n.jpg

Piano Picture 1 - http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6671/photo61ag.jpg

Piano Picture 2 - http://bestofmichaeljackson.jclondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Photo-Early-Years-4-Micheal-Jackson.jpg

Piano Picture 3 - http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o36/EchelonAngel/Michael%20Jackson/003-2.jpg

Piano Picture 4 - http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx257/aboriginalgardenia/MJ%2090s/01_michael_jackson.jpg

Piano Picture 5 - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/goranx/09.jpg

Piano Picture 6 - http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3024/jetjuly311980usa1ts.jpg

Piano Picture 7 - http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9751/jetmarch311977usa0bz.jpg

Piano Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To-6wIC5Q7g

Drums Picture 1 - http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad28/Brittanypwns/Young%20Micheal/mjdrums.jpg

Drums Picture 2 - http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4057/gallery13182409744nm.jpg --88.112.157.18 (talk) 12:58, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

That's all well and good. Pictures of him holding a guitar, sitting at the piano and drums. I can hold a guitar or sit at the piano and make like I'm making a couple of chords too, but I can't play a lick. He actually isn't even listed as playing any instruments on his album credits here, and since so much of this guy was self-promotion and self-hype, I will ask, is there any live footage of him actually playing these instruments? He did a lot of concerts. There should be plenty of him doing something besides dancing if in fact he actually could. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.13.86 (talk) 12:55, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

- Percussion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off_the_Wall_%28album%29

- Percussion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_%28The_Jacksons_album%29

- Drums - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thriller_%28album%29

- Drums - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_%28album%29

- Guitar - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_%28album%29

- Keyboards and synthesizers - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIStory:_Past,_Present_and_Future,_Book_I

- Guitars - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIStory:_Past,_Present_and_Future,_Book_I

- Drums and percussion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIStory:_Past,_Present_and_Future,_Book_I

- Percussion, Drums, Guitar - Morphine (Blood on the Dance Floor: HIStory in the Mix) --BadMuroZ (talk) 18:58, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi BadMuroZ.

The links you gave it's Wikipedia. The problem is that it's just your article. It's not a reliable source. For example, when i see you wrote <Percussion> for album "off the wall", i think it's not precise: people could believe that Michael Jackson played <percussion> on all the songs. But in reality he played <percussion> on just 2 songs. Musicians or instrumentalists love so much their instrument that they play with it during all their gigs and for all their studio sessions.

Michael Jackson wasn't an authentic instrumentalist. It's not because he had played 3 notes of guitar on 1 song during his career that he was a guitarist. On youtube we can see Ringo Starr played piano. Must we write on Wikipedia that Ringo Starr was a pianist?

Instrumental participation of Michael Jackson

1 - ALBUM TRIUMPH: For this album, you wrote that Michael Jackson played percussion. Can you give me the title of the song who he played percussion?

2 - ALBUM OFF THE WALL

- Don't stop 'til you get enough : (Percussion)

- Working day and night : (Percussion)

3 - ALBUM THRILLER

- Beat it : (Drum case beater) (???)

4 - ALBUM BAD

- Bad : (Percussion-How Now Brown Cow)

- Speed Demon and Leave Me Alone : (Vocal synthesizer) (???)

5 - ALBUM DANGEROUS : He played nothing

6 - ALBUM HISTORY : here on Wikipedia, i can read that Jackson was credited for playing instruments such as keyboard, synthesizer, guitar, drums and percussion on the single and album. Is it possible to obtain sources?

7 - ALBUM BLOOD ON THE DANCE FLOOR

- Morphine : (Percussion, Drums, Guitar)

8 - ALBUM INVINCIBLE

- Cry : (Keyboard Programming by Michael Jackson and Brad Buxer) (Drum Programming by Michael Jackson and Brad Buxer)

- You Rock My World : ( All Musical Instruments Performed by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins) (but he played what?)

For instant, i'm sure he played with musical instruments on 7 songs. And you? --Roujan (talk) 19:25, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Jackson was simply not an instrumentalist, and it's a complete and total joke that all those instruments are listed on his Wiki bio as if he actually played any of them, with no actual live proof that he did. No way in hell anybody with an ego like his would not be on stage ripping it up on guitar and piano and the rest if he actually could play. It's a joke. More MJ and MJ fanatic hype with nothing to back it up, and it's shameful that Wiki puts the crap here with no actual proof, while with other articles I've been on they practically demand a notary public affidavit before they put something on there as a fact. It makes me sick and it's why I often take what I read at this site with a grain of salt. One of his "friends" was quoted as saying MJ could jam on those instruments. Wow! And MJ said he never had plastic surgery. Just more crap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.156.53.46 (talk) 07:43, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

This is a very interesting question. I never saw him perform live, so I just know him from his recordings and dance videos. I think part of the problem is that for someone like Eddie Van Halen, he's doesn't do anything visually interesting besides play the guitar, so that's what any good filmmaker will show us. But for Michael Jackson, no filmmaker will want to show him playing a guitar when they can show him dancing! He may well have been doing much of his own guitar work on his recordings, and we wouldn't have a reliable way of knowing it. I suspect that, growing up in that musical family of his, that he learned to play several instruments, and probably became reasonably proficient in them, but I have no idea if he played them in his recordings. And for someone this famous, much of what you read about him is hype dreamed up by his publicists. It has never been a publicist's job to tell the truth. Having said all that, it's safe to say that, in his public performances, he was a vocalist and a great dancer. — MiguelMunoz (talk) 21:10, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I know some of MJ's brothers could play guitar, because I've seen them on stage. Jackson was filmed a lot through the decades in concert, and there is no way he wouldn't have been filmed playing an instrument at some point, as well as filmed in the studio playing if he did or could. What you see above is all there even is as far as what's listed on his albums as him playing. Like the other guy said, Ringo Starr can be seen playing piano on YouTube, and that means actually seen playing the piano, not pictures of him sitting at it or the drums or "holding" a guitar like MJ. But Ringo's a drummer, not a pianist. Elvis Presley besides guitar and piano which he was seen playing countless times and recorded countless times playing, also arranged and produced many of his records, can also be seen sitting at the drums in studio shots, as well as sitting down with a bass, which he actually played on at least one song that's absolute recorded fact. He isn't listed at Wiki as an arranger/producer despite many sources, or having played drums despite as much proof as MJ playing drums, nor the bass which again is a documented fact that he played on at least one of his tracks. But MJ is listed as playing all of thoese instruments with virtually zero proof of it. "Hype" is the key word here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.242.172 (talk) 09:45, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Michael Jackson, technically is the seventh of nine children born the Joe and Katherine Jackson. Because Marlon's lost his twin at birth that would make Michael the seventh not the eighth. Strickland55 (talk) 21:48, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

As you said "technically". Tbhotch* ^{۩ ۞} 21:00, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected}} The young Michael Jackson owed his vocal technique in large part to Diana Ross. In October 1969, it was decided

[why?] due to extensive physical abuse at the hands of his father about which his mother could do little at the time

[by whom?] Producer Berry Gordy's daughter Hazel who saw Michael come to cut a record one day with a black eye and a busted lip.

that Jackson would live with Ross. Not only a mother figure to him, she was often observed in rehearsal as an accomplished performer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.131.185.237 (talk) 20:17, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. You need a reliable source that supports that reason (physical abuse). Qwyrxian (talk) 00:50, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone think that a section on the Oliver North Trial should be added. Something like.

In 1985 the administration of President Ronald Reagan embarked on a plan to secure the release of American hostages by illegally selling arms to Iran. Funds from those sales were channeled to the Contra guerrillas in Nicaragua who were attempting to overthrow that country's leftist government. When news of this deal broke in 1986, a Congressional hearing followed. Under promise of immunity, Oliver North, a Marine Corps lieutenant colonel and member of President Reagan's National Security Council (NSC), provided an account of the U.S. government's role. North's emotional performance captured the public imagination but left doubts about his veracity. A grand jury later charged him with having lied to Congress, obstructed justice, and received kickbacks. the trial happended whilst Michael Jackson was still alive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey666 (talk • contribs) 20:26, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

No, because it's irrelevant. Rodhullandemu 20:29, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I think it is a good idea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twizzlervonbiscuit (talk • contribs) 20:42, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

The article on this businessman states (without references) that he was instrumental in bringing Michael back from exile. If so, it should be added. seems there are youtube video news bits supporting this. I edited it down quite a bit, but it may still be overreaching. I dont have much experience adding material to really major articles, so ill leave it to others if they want to act on this.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:41, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Why is there no section -- or article, even -- discussing Michael's relationship with the media, and his eccentricity? He's dead now, BLP isn't an issue, and it's documented widely in journals, newspapers, books. For example, there's no mention of Terry George, or the paternity of the children, his "Wacko Jacko" public identity. I don't want to slate the man, but it's probably the biggest aspect of him after his music and it deserves some neutral coverage. Even if that coverage was reduced to summarising opinions, documentaries and their responses etc., in context: e.g. Bashir, Theroux, his sisters' comments, any coverage of the man once known as "the most eccentric person alive in the world".~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 17:31, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Some of that is in Personal relationships of Michael Jackson, and Scream/Childhood discusses his deteriorating relationship with the media. hbdragon88 (talk) 22:57, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The article's opening has this curious sentence: "The music videos for his songs ... were credited with transforming the medium into an art form and a promotional tool" Huh? They weren't a promotional tool before Michael Jackson? I think it would be much more prudent to say "... credited with transforming the medium from a promotional tool into an art form" —MiguelMunoz (talk) 21:19, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

good catch--Manboobies (talk) 04:29, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

We have nothing on Jackson's plea at Clinton's inaugural gala for more research into HIV/AIDS as well as more funding for that research. see . Also we don't mention that Jackson got into the 2000 guinness book of records for most charities supported by an artist. And the paragraph about the benefit concerts in 1999 is lacking an actual paragraph for itself. There's also a complete lack of weight given to the millions he donated to charity in general. Did you know all the profits from the Dangerous tour went to charity? Did you know he airlifted tons of supplies to sarejevo as sole chairman of Heal the World Foundation? It's not given much weight in the article, it probably should be in the intro that he made the book of records in 2000 and all the money from the dangerous tour went to charity.--Manboobies (talk) 04:29, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

The article discusses his poor finances somewhat but doesn't mention the untold donations to charity. He would donate a whole tour to charity then take out a loan. Whilst connecting the two is original research, sticking them next to each other in sentences is not.--Manboobies (talk) 04:31, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected}} the word history is porrly written (like this: HIStory) (found in stactue image box) please fix this

70.27.138.52 (talk) 01:20, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

 Not done Is not "history" is HIStory. Tbhotch* ^{۩ ۞} 01:24, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

The Name That Should Be Used In The Begining Of Michael Jackson's Wikipedia Page Is His Birth Name, Which Is Michael Joseph Jackson,That Is The Name He Has Always Gone By.Blooper2011 (talk) 20:58, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

This is an interesting case. The ref cites a document on the page that uses "Joe," but the main FOIA FBI page says "Joseph." The SSDI also says Joseph. So therefore, I've changed it back to Joseph. hbdragon88 (talk) 06:14, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

What should we do here - his middle name is Joseph as indicated on all the books he has written and published like Moomwalk -- so what do we do here - should we change it back again? and remove the ref that is there - because all know that's driver's licence dont always use full valid name - i dont have my full middle name on my driver's licence...Moxy (talk) 16:55, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

File:Michael Jackson death certificate.jpg I think this is the definitive statement as to what his middle name is. hbdragon88 (talk) 05:41, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Wow that's nice and definitive ..shall we fix it?Moxy (talk) 05:50, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Good question..... SJ (talk) 22:56, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok i think we got it right now...Its pretty clear that "Joe" is the short form he used, but not the proper name. Looking into this in the USA looks like only 4 documents have to have proper "fully" middle names - Birth certificate - Passport - marriage certificate and death certificate. According to what i found Americans can use short form middle names on tax forums and drivers licences (this includes "Legal" stage names)....Moxy (talk) 23:10, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's real middle name is Joe? Joseph is fake. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.80.197 (talk) 19:28, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

The time of Jacksons’ diagnoses of Vitiligo and Lupus,> his skin became blotchy. Once his skin was going through pigment differentiation,> Jackson wanted to make it all one colour. Therefore, from confirmation from the> autopsy, skin bleaching creams were used but solely for the purpose of covering> his blotchy skin due to his skin disease, rather than for outrageous rumors> about him having the desire to be Caucasian. Jackson has told the truth from his> interview with Oprah Winfrey in1993, where he openly admitted his skin diagnoses.> Sadly, people refused to believe him even having him publicly admit his disease> and still continued to not believe him until his death and his autopsy results — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guirguc14 (talk • contribs) 13:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

The problem with this is that it's much easier and less intrusive to cover the white blotches with something darker than the other way around. If his skin was indeed blotchy, it was still his choice to go with the lighter skin than the darker skin.

Also, Oprah Winfrey could well have asked him why he didn't just cover up the lighter skin with darker makeup, but talk show hosts (even as powerful as Oprah) don't get superstar guests like Michael Jackson unless they agree to cooperate with his image makers. —MiguelMunoz (talk) 21:30, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

In response to Guirguc14, Michael Jackson's autopsy report confirmed he had vitiligo (undisputable) and he used bleaching agents hydroquinone and benoquin (having possession of some 20 or so tubes of each agent). Benoquin is an extremely powerful bleaching agent. This chemical can CAUSE vitiligo in individuals that DO NOT possess the disease and it can also TREAT the disease in individuals that have it naturally. By an individual using the cream with an absence of the disease, it can cause 'chemically induced vitiligo' as a side-effect. The chemical does not uniformly strip pigment from the skin and creates 'splotches'. Some people have a problem with accepting Michael's claim that it was a natural occurence rather than something self-inflicted. I am a fan of him, but I am not willing to accept such a claim given the other measures he has taken to change his appearance. He did have vitiligo, albeit it may have been a side effect of cosmetic treatment. Michael was right to say that people are ignorant of the disease, but I believe he caused the disease cosmetically in himself. By discussing it, he gave awareness of the disease. See all sides to the story, however, we will never know the truth. It is all guess-work now that he has gone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greyrabbit12 (talk • contribs) 18:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

The start of the second paragraph of the lead states 'In the early 1980s, Jackson became a dominant figure in popular music.' In my view this should instead be changed to 'In the early 1980s, Jackson became the dominant figure in popular music.'. The latter is undoubtedly the case and is more than supported by the contents of the article. Why should there be equivocation?Rangoon11 (talk) 21:54, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Some more info on "King of Pop" added back to the alias field:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_musical_artist#alias "Also for the solo artist's legal name(s), or other officially authorized names that differ from their birth name." This extends beyond legal aliases e.g. Madonna_(entertainer) has the following in alias: Madonna Ciccone, Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone (confirmation name), Esther (Kabbalah name)

As may have been discussed before, "King of Pop" was officially authorized for use numerous times by Michael Jackson in his promotional material. There are many examples, for instance in the O2 announcement of the This Is It concerts "King of Pop" appears on the podium and the electronic banner at the top of the stage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qs36fLnSds So it is not merely nick name as it was authorized by MJ for many official uses for concert tours, t.v. specials, etc.

-Verapar (talk) 10:27, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

* This change was also part of the edit that Moxy repeatedly and unfairly reverted due to their dispute over the birth name below in which they refuse to acknowledge the facts provided by reliable sources.

* See: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Michael_Jackson&action=historysubmit&diff=425346301&oldid=425345048

* "only legal aliases are allowed" is a FALSE statement, see above.

* As well my addition of WP:Don't_revert_due_to_"no_consensus" underneath the first comment in the infobox.

* I accidentally changed Jackson 5 in the "Associated Acts" to The Jacksons because I was trying to do a pop up Jackson 5/The Jacksons, then changed my mind. I'm fine with it either way.

-Verapar (talk) 19:12, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

The birth name was first corrected to Michael Joe Jackson in January 2011 citing his FBI file (which is a good reliable source on this issue) but the file was later moved to another url. The citation now been restored (until "Moxy" repreatedly removed it, along with the other changes I did that are unrelated to this issue) using the new urls. As noted in the citation (currently beside the birth name) we have from: http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-la-162715.PDF, (from: http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/michael-joseph-jackson)

• p.8: "Michael Joe Jackson" is on his driver's license (the primary form of Identity_documents_in_the_United_States) & p.6: license application (which he signed and provided documents to prove his "true full name", see http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm ).
• p:45 has the quote "Michael Jackson whose true name is Michael Joe Jackson"
• "Michael Joe Jackson" also appears on many pages throughout his FBI file
• And court documents prepared by prosecutors (and the 2005 verdict) must use the legal name shown on government issued i.d. Prosecutors had to check his legal name when he was arrested & Jackson had to surrender his passport in 2003. See talk page archives or other articles on Jackson citing the these documents for examples.

• Thus, his legal name "Michael Joe Jackson" is his birth name based on currently known and accepted Identity_documents_in_the_United_States.

-Verapar (talk) 11:25, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Only a birth, death, Passport or marriage certificate are the main valid sources - and all 3 say Michael Joseph Jackson (not sure about Passport never seen it). As for drivers license, social security card and court documents a short form of names can be used (as this is what i have done). In interviews with him they make sure they used his full name as at Ebony Dec 2007 - Ebony May 1984

And as side note he named 2 of his kids with the same name .............Moxy (talk) 14:30, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

No, you are mistaken. See the article Identity_documents_in_the_United_States and the fbi file, which also clearly states is true name & also prosecution documents. Those interviews are using his most commonly known name. Unless you have a birth certificate showing his name, his driver's license and the statement by the FBI supercede the death certificate. You did not read any of my points above.

Verapar (talk) 14:43, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Again as stated above FBI files and a driver's license are able to use short forms for names . Pls see His SIGNATURE on kids Birth certificate - kids birth certificate - death certificate.Moxy (talk) 14:50, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

• Law enforcement agencies such as the FBI and the L.A. prosecutors are reliable sources as to his legal name (definitely more so than http://www.in.com. As stated, the L.A. prosecution had access to his license and passport, both clearly identified forms of i.d. the are have precedence over his death certificate as sources of his legal name. As stated, the FBI clearly stated: "Michael Jackson whose true name is Michael Joe Jackson" (NEVER did they say "short form"). His signature on the birth records of the kids is NOT a source of i.d. You are using questionable sources and your personal opinions about the FBI & driver's licenses.
• Here is a sample prosecution document: http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/042805minuteorder.pdf
• Main website for the court documents: http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/

-Verapar (talk) 15:33, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

So a source by MJ himself is not a valid source?? Come on man!Moxy (talk) 16:07, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

MJ signed the license application on p.6 which where he wrote that his name was "Michael Joe Jackson" (as stated above) & provided the necessary documentation to prove it (see DMV links below).

moxy is 3/4 right! birth, marrige and death will have full proper names. Passports do not requier full names. Its abvious that Joe is short for Joseph as proven by the documants provided by moxy. Looks like MJ even writes hes name with Joseph on the birth of his kids. Would he do this if his name was just Joe?216.106.109.188 (talk) 15:48, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

* The California Department of Motor vehicles http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm clearly says the name on his driver's license had to come from legal documents verifying "his birth date and legal presence" e.g. a birth certificate http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#BDLP. Otherwise you have to show legal documents showing that you legally changed your name if your true name is not the one on your BD/LP document http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#truename. There is no documentation to show that he legally changed his middle name from Joseph to Joe, the name confirmed by the BOTH the FBI and the L.A. prosecutors/police departments as his true name from his government i.d.

* moxy has provided NO documents that legally verify his birth name. All you and moxy have provided is your personal opinion that passports, driver's licenses, the FBI, LA prosecutors and police departments are unreliable sources of his legal name; despite all evidence to the contrary.

-Verapar (talk) 16:19, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok then can you explain y they use Joseph all over the place. Do you think all this documents are made up? Y in the hell would he sign his name Joseph? do you think he forgot his name was just Joe or is it more likely that Joe is short for Joseph. Do you not think he would have made them correct this documents if his name was just Joe? So basically your saying all the references above (that MJ looked at and subsequently singed) are wrong? As for driver's license only a middle entail is required. I take it you are ware that his fathers name is Joseph as with his children. Moxy (talk) 16:35, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

As stated, MJ clearly wrote "Joe" on his license application (and passport too), which must be reflected in his BD/LP documentation, and signed it. http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#truename clearly says "Your true full name appears on your BD/LP document.". The driver's license & passport are recognized forms of i.d. and it is clearly stated to applicants that you must use your legal name in these two documents. Your personal opinions & endless speculations are not reliable sources vs. the FBI, prosecutors, police, MJ himself, the DMV requirements and these primary forms of government i.d.

-Verapar (talk) 17:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

So your saying you have no answer to y he singed his name Joseph or that the name is on all this documents? There are a multutude of books and documents that say Joseph - how can you simply dissmiss them all. What is more logical that he singed his right name or did it wrong. pls see his LAST WILL Moxy (talk) 17:14, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

• As stated, Michael Joe Jackson is confirmed as his full true name in his driver's license (a primary form of government i.d.), is stated by the FBI as his "true name", verified by prosecutors, police, MJ himself (in his signed license application) and the DMV requirements for the name on the driver's license. A will is NOT an acceptable form of i.d. for the DMV.
• Clearly many documents are NOT subject to rigorous checking & standards that are required for primary forms of government issued i.d. e.g. a Driver's license, passport, etc. which all require that you provide proof of your full true name before they are issued and cannot be used as government i.d. (see Identity_documents_in_the_United_States, http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#BDLP etc.)
• You have stated false claims e.g. about the name requirements for passports & licenses, the equivalency of other documents to government issued i.d. (i.e. see , http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#BDLP, Identity_documents_in_the_United_States etc.) without any reliable sources and this is "illogical"; as is the refusal to have any acknowledgment of the sources above.
• That an alternate name is commonly used does NOT make it a birth name, the birth name can only be legally confirmed by certain forms of i.d., which I have listed.

-Verapar (talk) 18:50, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

O well we will have to disagree - If you wish to change the article you will need consensus as this name has consensus currently (as per previous talk - that came about due to his death certificate ) - I see that there is more then enough evidence that the name in not simply Joe. His will - his death certificate - his signature on his children s birth certificates and so on. You may seek more input from outside editors at Wikipedia:Editor assistance - Wikipedia:Requests for comment and Wikipedia:Third opinion as it just basically you and me talking about this with references. Moxy (talk) 19:41, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

• As stated, in addition to stating numerous unsupported claims as facts, you have not provided a single reference that shows the existence of a Identity_documents_in_the_United_States that legally confirms his birth name as using Joseph instead of Joe (and none of the documents to which you refer even make any explicit mention of a "true name" or "birth name". I have provided a number of references showing which i.d. documents can confirm the birth name and sources showing such i.d. explicitly confirming Michael Joe Jackson as his true name.
• It is NOT WP policy to simply revert an edit "due to no consensus" without saying why. See WP:Don't_revert_due_to_"no_consensus"

-Verapar (talk) 20:03, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Michael Joseph Jackson was his name at birth, but later in life he insisted on distancing himself from his father and even his father's full given name, thus going by Joe. Aaron was Elvis Presley's middle name at birth, but he dropped an "a" from it when he was older, changing his to Aron. Paul McCartney's middle name is Paul, which is what he goes by, rather than his first name which is James. Best, --Discographer (talk) 19:56, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

• That is an unsourced claim, you will have to provide legal documentation showing the legal name change or birth certificate. -Verapar (talk) 20:03, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Okay, just give me your address so I can send it to you. Best, --Discographer (talk) 20:05, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

• Without Wikipedia:Reliable sources for the legal name change document/birth certificate to support your claim it stands that the birth name is Michael Joe Jackson as explicitly confirmed as true name by the FBI and prosecutors via government issued i.d. http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#BDLP, Identity_documents_in_the_United_States

-Verapar (talk) 20:22, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

The simply reason i dont by your argument about true name - is that both my drivers license and passport have my middle name as Alex (but in fact its Alexander that appear on my birth certificate). For my will and my marriage license i had to use "Alexander" i had no choice were i had the option to use Alex for my drivers license and passport. Also what name change are you talking about? Do you believe that Michael Joseph Jackson was a stage name? even his self published book that you linked up today use Michael Joseph Jackson Moxy (talk) 21:14, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I've been asked to comment here, so I will. I won't comment further because I think this is a ridiculous detail to argue about. I think the reliance on court and police records may be misplaced. I do not know how the feds do things, but I can tell you about Missouri. Here the authorities do not care if they have someone locked up under the wrong name (even a completely wrong one). I know this because the state sought the death penalty against a prisoner for killing a guard and they charged him under a name that was different than the name he lived under later and (I think) different than the name he was born with. It may be a different story for someone that is not locked up pending trial (I'm guessing someone as rich as MJ bonded out). But this much is true, at least in Missouri: enough to identify someone is all that matters. First name, last name, SSN, birthdate, and last known address will usually be enough for the authorities to known who they need to track down if they fail to appear. That's all they really need your name for. People usually don't show up for court to fight charges filed against someone that has the same first name and last name, but a different middle name. I could check to see if the feds do things the same way, but it's really not worth anyone's time.

The sources you all have amassed disagree. Some of them say Joe. Others say Joseph. I don't see any that you've been discussing that are not reliable sources. So the name guideline says to name someone by their most commonly known name. That's done (Michael Jackson). Beyond that, I'm not sure. Do a majority of the sources point to one or the other? Or was he trying to disassociate himself from his father over time? I don't know and I don't really care. I don't think our policies or guidelines offer any clarity here. If you want someone to just settle this fight, I am happy to flip a coin.--Chaser (talk) 21:38, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes agree that this is trivial - however this is the basses behind conspiracy theorists that believe hes not dead - though i don't believe thats the reason for Verapar wishing to change the name in the article. As seem below all that has been posted here has been talked about for a long time by conspiracy theories and i am hoping we here at Wikipedia dont add fuel to this fire - I personal believe we have it right - as did a few other at the time this was originally changed with the refs that were provided above. Moxy (talk) 22:27, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

• The Truth Isn't Waiting To Be Found. It's Waiting To Be BeLIEved.
• Michael Jackson's full legal name ...&... the death certificate!!
• ompelling evidence now available that Michael Jackson is not dead and the "death" is a gigantic media hoax. -
• All what you want to know about Michael Jackson full legal name (almost full analysis)

Silly conspiracy theorists on the internet should not motivate our naming decisions here.--Chaser (talk) 22:36, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Agree 100 percent - We have documents from all over saying different things. So lets not give to much weight to one kind of document as the conspiracy theorists have done - As you say we should look at what is mostly out there - The more scholarly publications from what i see have used Joseph over the years - as with Don Michael Randel's The Harvard concise dictionary of music and musicians - Harvard University Press - page 331 - published 1999.Moxy (talk) 23:22, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

There is clearly no such thing as "Wikipedia reliable sources", only biased tripe. Whether it's all the unsubstantiated claims about Jackson's "instrumentalist" abilities which are stated as fact on his front page with zilch to back them up, or a thousand other issues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.156.54.42 (talk) 16:32, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

The first tour listed here is the Bad World Tour. I wonder if that is correct. He did some touring as a child. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skysong263 (talk • contribs) 18:53, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

With respect to the deceased MJ, Wikipedia should do alot to point toward the overwhelming evidence against both Evan Chandler and Janet Arvizo and MJ's innocence. It's outstanding and I still don't think its clear to the public to this day.John Q12 (talk) 17:53, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

The tone of this article is fawning in places. This detracts from the quality of it. This is an important article about a man significant in 20th century popular culture history. If certain editors with an exceptional emotional bias towards having positive commentary on Jackson need to be bludgeoned into submission, the edits should be made to improve this article. Leonig Mig (talk) 21:14, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I certainly think that the new wording in the lead (According to David Winters, Jackson also donated tens of millions of dollars to many children’s charities anonymously, and spent a lot of his time visiting seriously ill children tirelessly going from hospital to hospital meeting these children just to brighten up their lives. When Jackson finished the visits he would ask the hospital nurses and the doctors what was needed at the hospital in terms of equipment for the children and would then make anonymous donations to the hospital to purchase expensive equipment or whatever else was needed.) is WP:UNDUE, POV and has spoilt an otherwise very good article. In my view the prior sentence was sufficient detail on Jackson's charitable activities for the lead. Rangoon11 (talk) 18:24, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

The lede is also too long: deleting or moving the sycophantic stuff would be an easy way of improving it. Timothy Horrigan (talk) 03:20, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I miss some info about Jackson’s vocal range. There are a lot of websites claiming it to be between 3 and 4 octaves, and some impressive YouTube recordings, however, it would be nice to have some reliable information about this in the Wikipedia itself. Has anyone got a reliable source, and if so, can (s)he please add it to the article? (I’m not a regular Wikipedia contributor and can’t do it myself.) --Musubana (talk) 07:58, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Problem with Vocal range is it changes in time and that noone realy ever sits down to have this evaluated properly. There are many many many different opinions and views on this.Moxy (talk) 16:24, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you’re right; take a look at this video, for instance, it mixes vocals from his whole life… Many fan sites mention an interview with Jackson’s vocal coach Seth Riggs, where he also mentions Jackson’s (expanding) vocal range. But I’ve been unable to find it! Has anyone got a clue? Riggs would definitely be a reliable source. --Musubana (talk) 21:34, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Now, this is interesting, the Spanish wikipedia has a whole section about his voice: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson#Voz Apparently, they use this page as a source: http://www.michaeljackson.com/fi/blog/michaels-vocal-lessons How about copying the Spanish speakers? --Musubana (talk) 21:48, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Please change the lines about Michael Jackson dying after "suffering" from cardiac arrest. Cardiac arrest means the heart has stopped, so 100% of people "suffer" from cardiac arrest when they die. I'm not sure if the official cause of death is known, but it could be changed to something like, "after administration of several powerful drugs such as propofol, Michael Jackson suffered a cardiac arrest and died." 173.180.3.104 (talk) 02:32, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Michael Jackson has won 18 Grammy Awards

See http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/michael-jackson-awards R&BEditsz (talk) 09:38, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

The changes requested below have been made. Aleskr (talk), 17 November 2010

{{Edit semi-protected}}

Please change: "However, McCartney later changed his mind and tried to persuade John Lennon's widow Yoko Ono to join him in a joint bid. Ono declined, and McCartney pulled out."

to: "Previously, McCartney was offered the ATV catalog for £20 million ($40 million USD) in 1981. He contacted Yoko Ono to make a joint purchase by splitting the cost equally at £10 million each, but Ono thought they could buy it for £5 million each. When they were unable to, he let the offer fall through, not wanting to pay the £20 million himself."

McCartney tried to make a joint purchase with Yoko Ono when he was OFFERED the catalog for £20 million in 1981, NOT when MJ was bidding for it in 1984. He never attempted to place a bid when the catalog was put up for sale in 1984. These two sources confirm the £20 million offer and failed attempt to make a joint purchase was prior to the 1984 open bidding:

http://www.pophistorydig.com/?tag=michael-jackson-john-branca (see section "Jackson Invests")

http://mjjinfo.blogspot.com/2010/11/paul-mccartney-refused-to-buy-atv.html (Audio and transcript of McCartney talking being "OFFERED the songs to buy for £20 million pounds" and letting the offer fall through)

The specific year of the offer as 1981 was given here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony/ATV_Music_Publishing#Acquisition in the sentence, "McCartney had previously attempted to purchase the catalog alongside John Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono in 1981." with Taraborrelli, J. Randy (2004). The Magic and the Madness. Terra Alta, WV (2004) p335–338 as the reference

The above wikipedia (citing Taraborrelli) and pophistorydig.com articles both confirm that after Jackson was notified of the sale in September 1984, John Branca contacted McCartney's attorney who said McCartney would not bid because the catalog was too "pricey". There is no mention of McCartney changing his mind after that.

Aleskr (talk) 13:22 17 November 2010 (UTC)

change that he was the 8th child he was the 7th — Preceding unsigned comment added by V-TEK777 (talk • contribs) 20:43, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

This is a frequent question. Marlon had a twin who died at birth, named Brandon. Timothy Horrigan (talk) 05:18, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

please add the last album titled ( michael ) to his discography because it is an official release by sony and deserve to be added to his discography — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amen waleed (talk • contribs) 22:27, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

So is Blood on the Dance Floor: HIStory in the Mix, but you'll note that that is not listed either. Only studio albums are included, not remix or compilation albums.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 02:43, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Under this topic, Mariah Carey,[315], is listed twice. I believe it would look a bit better if one of them were to be removed :) 83.252.73.180 (talk) 22:46, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Fixed...thank you for pointing this out.Moxy (talk) 23:56, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

On January 27, 1984, Michael and other members of the Jacksons filmed a Pepsi Cola commercial. This was exactly the first day of the second half of his life. Michael lived a total of 18,564 days. On January 27, 1984 he had lived exactly half of those days - 9282 days. Willawatson (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:46, 9 July 2011 (UTC).

Under instruments, this article lists "vocals, drums, piano, and guitar." This list should include a musician's main instruments. Jackson only provided vocals in concert and on all of his main albums (at least on the ones that I"m familiar with). Shouldn't this list be limited to "vocals" since Jackson was never a serious drummer, guitarist or pianist? Jpcohen (talk) 21:47, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Completely agree. I would favour limiting it to vocals only, and we have tried that in the past, but it's never long before someone comes along and insists on adding instruments based on the fact that he once strummed a bit of guitar on a B-side or something. As you say, the field should be for an artist's primary instrument, which in Jackson's case is vocals.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:06, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Okay, that's what I thought. Thank you for verifying. I've changed the category to include "vocals" only. Jpcohen (talk) 23:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Article misses out a very important aspects of star's life - his conversion to Islam and his new name 'Mikail'. Why should such an important section be skipped out? It is requested that this section should be added to provide wiki users with complete and correct information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.241.96.5 (talk) 08:17, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

You would have to be able to provide a solid source to back your claim before you add this. However, I've never read or heard anything about Jackson converting and changing his name in any mainstream publication.Jpcohen (talk) 21:09, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

This has been discussed many times in the talk page archive. It comes back to a story in the UK tabloid The Sun in November 2008, which was denied by the people involved. All of the subsequent coverage is a rehash of this story. The FAQ at the top of the talk page has more details.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 05:37, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree that this doesn't belong in the article. I've never heard of it, and it's apparently wrong since he never changed his name. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:50, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Official site: http://home.michaelforevertribute.com/home.html

Los Angeles (CNN) -- Michael Jackson's mother and four of his siblings announced Monday a tribute concert for the late pop singer to be held in Wales in October, but the lineup for talent is still a secret.

Brothers Marlon, Tito and Jackie, sister La Toya and family matriarch Katherine Jackson attended the "Michael Forever The Tribute Concert" announcement at the Beverly Hills Hotel on Monday morning.

But the announcement exposed a major rift among members of the Jackson family, especially with Jackson brothers Jermaine and Randy, who did not attend the news conference. They objected to the show because it's scheduled to happen during the criminal trial of the doctor accused in Michael Jackson's death.

"We want to make clear that this does not reflect the position of the entire family," the two brothers said in a joint statement. "While we wholeheartedly support the spirit of a tribute that honors our brother, we find it impossible to support an event that is due to take place during the criminal trial surrounding Michael's death," they said.

While the head of the British company promoting the show, Global Events Live, hinted it could include a Jackson brothers reunion, the statement from Jermaine and Randy Jackson on Monday indicated that would not happen.

"In light of this, we feel it is inappropriate to be involved with such an ill-timed event and its promoter, Global Live," Randy and Jermaine Jackson said.

Their statement said the idea of the October concert was presented to the entire family in April "as an idea already in its advanced stages." The decision to go ahead with it "disrespects opinions and wishes expressed in the strongest terms" by some members of the Jackson family, they said.

La Toya Jackson said the "tribute will be something that's spectacular" and is "far, far, well overdue.'

The Jacksons' mother called it "a show fit for a king,"

"If my son were here today, he would feel the same way," Katherine Jackson said.

Executors for the late pop singer's estate were unaware of the planned tribute, estate spokesman Jim Bates told CNN.

"The estate has not been contacted and is not involved with Global Live Events in the UK tribute concert announced today," he said.

The show will "feature the world's most amazing music performers," according to the head of British promoter Global Live. The roster will be revealed online one act at a time over the next two weeks, starting Tuesday, Chris Hunt said. All profits from the show would go to several U.S. and British charities, including a cancer group created by the prince of Wales, Hunt said.

The October 8 show, in the Wales Millennium Centre in Cardiff, Wales, would be at least four hours long, Hunt said. The venue will seat up to 75,000 people, he said.

"I know my brother would be very, very proud to see all the artists that he admired and respected so much coming together for this event," Tito Jackson said.

Hunt presented the Jackson family with a $100,000 check that will go to a trust fund for Michael Jackson's three children, which they can access when they turn 21. The children, Katherine Jackson and unidentified charities are the sole beneficiaries of Jackson's wealthy estate.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/celebrity.news.gossip/07/25/jackson.tribute.concert/ http://celebrity-gossip.net/michael-jackson/jackson-family-announces-michael-forever-tribute-concert-527959 http://www.okmagazine.com/2011/07/michael-jackson-tribute-concert-causes-family-feud/ http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Showbiz-News/Michael-Jackson-Tribute-Concert-In-Wales-Michael-Forever-Show-Criticised-By-Randy-And-Jermaine/Article/201107416037620?f=rss

--BadMuroZ (talk) 13:14, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

The following entry is in Jackson's Early life section:

In fact, Michael Jackson's deep dissatisfaction with his appearance, his nightmares and chronic sleep problems, his tendency to remain hyper-compliant especially with his father, and to remain child-like throughout his adult life are in many ways consistent with the effects of this chronic maltreatment he endured as a young child.[10] Also, U.S.-based research studies on impact of "adverse childhood experiences" or ACEs (e.g. a child being abused, violence in the family, extreme stress of poverty, etc.) have shown that having a number of ACEs exponentially increases the risk of addiction (e.g. a male child with six ACEs has a 4,600%/46-fold increase in risk of addiction), mental illnesses, physical illnesses, and early death.[11]

I can understand having that first line...if it mentions Jackson. But why is the second line (ACEs) there, when it is not about Jackson's life? I understand the need to explain how the whippings/beatings impacted Jackson, but I feel that we should stick to Jackson's feelings on that when it comes to his Early life section. Plenty of experts have stated their opinion on what kind of impact the whippings/beatings had on Jackson, but that doesn't mean it belongs in his Early life section. A section specifically about this can be created if it's felt to be needed. Or it can go in the Michael Jackson's health and appearance article. Flyer22 (talk) 22:33, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

And if this has been discussed before, point me to the archived discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 22:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Is a featured article so content should stay stable for the foreseeable future. Is also a high traffic article. I've spoken to a few people about it and most seem to agree that a female voice would be best suited but we ain't too bothered about that. Realist²

so this single is by Barry Gibb. but why is it then listed as a single in Michael Jackson singles discography. as i listened to the song, michael only sang the chorus while gibb sang the rest of it. Now there are skeptical rumors that a music video will be released of them in the studio. is this true or not and if so i please urge that this be all turned into a page where people like me can understand and catch up on these new songs, and like i said, why is the song then not listed as its own page instead of being one of barry gibbs singles' but having no where to link too but back to his page Stevie Kay (talk) 18:04, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

I would suggest an update and more accurate picture of Michael Jackson's financial picture at the time of his death. He is the most successful artist of all time, a man who left his children billions in assets and he should be given credit for that.

In 2005 Tom Mesereau got a prosecution financial expert to admit that Sony/ATV had been estimated by industry experts to be worth as much as $5 billion. It is also rarely mentioned that Jackson now his estate own another catalogue of music, Mijac publishing worth between $100- $200 million.

Attorney Londell Mcmillan worked with rapper Jay-Z and helped negotiate "the artist" Prince out of his deal with Warner Bros. Mcmillan also worked with Michael Jackson from 2007 on and became Katherine Jackson's lawyer after Michael died. He was a guest on The CBS Morning Show in July 2009. When asked how much he thought The Estate was worth he said, "In my estimation, a couple of billion dollars".

I also submit the following as proof that Jackson's net worth was much more than speculation about his debt. In July 2009 papers filed with the Estate court by executors John Branca and John McClain only one month after his death said "the Estate is solvent and worth more than $500 million." http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-24/entertainment/michael.jackson.estate_1_judge-mitchell-beckloff-special-administrators-debbie-rowe?_s=PM:SHOWBIZ by wiki legacy 8-12-11 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki legacy (talk • contribs) 20:08, 13 August 2011 (UTC) http://newsflavor.com/entertainment/michael-jackson%E2%80%99s-estate-declared-solvent/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki legacy (talk • contribs) 20:24, 13 August 2011 (UTC) What Londell McMillan Says here is clear. The rest is the media giving their spin and trying to downplay the fact that the leading African American entertainment attorney proclaimed Michael Jackson a bilionaire. http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml?feed_id=0&catid=5197299&videofeed=36 Wiki legacy 8-13-11 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki legacy (talk • contribs) 21:22, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I have Norton Parental Control installed and it bans this wiki page saying it belongs in category "Sex Education/Advanced." Of course I've already submitted a query for the removal of this page from that category at Norton's official content evaluation website. In the meantime I suggest revising if the details about circumcision, the strip search, his intimate parts really need to be part of this article. In my opinion they do not belong closely to his biography, considering that there's even a separate Wiki article about the 1993 child sexual abuse accusations against Michael Jackson. Marczellm (talk) 16:20, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I dont understand why it says hes dead because he didnt die! What gives??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.0.33.123 (talk) 21:15, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

"Sony had been pressuring him to sell his share in their music catalog venture."

Their is incorrect. Sony is a singular entity; their is a plural pronoun. Their should be replaced with "its." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.82.127.185 (talk) 00:35, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

I really can't see why Slash has Michael Jackson on his banner under "Related artists". Can someone take a look at this? --Leahtwosaints (talk) 08:35, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't see what you're talking about but I do know that Slash and Michael were friends. Slash played guitar for him on Black or White and went with him on tour, I believe. Amozoness6 (talk) 01:50, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Slash had also played on Give In To Me, D.S, Morphine and Privacy. He'd also performed live with Michael several times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.131.215 (talk) 16:37, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I can't find this mentioned in the Wikipedia article, so I assume you don't want this information here. I know I saw the online article on some web site but I never got around to clicking on the link.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:26, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Escape plan for what?Moxy (talk) 22:34, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

In case he was convicted. I keep forgetting to do a search for the article, but it seems like something that would belong, maybe as a brief item.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 17:08, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Here is one version of the story.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 14:10, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Such information is indeed sensitive but I assume it has more to do with the recent nature of the revelation. For reference see that the link you gave was posted just a week ago, on the 10th.. If you're steadfast about having it included just edit the article yourself with the passing mention it deserves. Recall that it didn't come to fruition nor was Michael even aware of it. Amozoness6 (talk) 00:43, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I'll do my best, thanks.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:15, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't this article mention how, on September 27 2011, there was news that Michael Jackson's doctor was in trouble after claims that he was responsible for Jackson taking an over-dose of sedatives? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:04, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

• As said Doctor is currently on trial, such information is either old or moot or risky to include until the trial is concluded. 23skidoo (talk) 13:04, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the point you make - they are well taken. I see the point that it might be best to wait until the trial is concluded before news of this goes into the article. The doctor's name is Dr Conrad Murray, I heard on Radio Four news today. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 18:56, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

There is often interest shown in the final songs performed by artists. According to CNN's coverage of Dr. Murray's trial, "Earth Song" was the final song Jackson performed during the This is It rehearsals. I think it should be added (source: ) but I'll leave it here for now. BTW why is this discussion page locked? I didn't think that was allowed; at the very least a note should be added somewhere explaining why for the benefit of unregistered users. 23skidoo (talk) 13:04, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

There's nothing in the history saying it is locked, but there were some inappropriate additions by IPs and vandalism by a registered user.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 17:49, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

 Done

Due to a dispute about a literal-minded interpretation of the guideline for disambiguation pages, can this page include an explicit mention of the initials "MJ" as a commonly used shorthand for refering to Jackson? I'm not sure about where to place this information in such a high-profile article like this. While I argue this is simple common sense and that WP:IAR should apply on the dab page, another editor disagrees and insists that there needs to be an explicit reference on this page in order to include Jackson on the MJ dab page. There are numerous references to "MJ" in the headline of blogs associated with quality news organizations, and also likely many to be found in actual news articles, though those need more careful parsing as "MJ" is less likely to appear in the headline. A few possible sources: "Dr. Conrad Murray’s guilty, but MJ’s not without blame", Florida Examiner; "MJ had ‘episode’ days before death?", Toronto Sun. older ≠ wiser 13:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I propose resolving this issue by adding to the lead para thus, with my addition in bold here:

Michael Joseph Jackson ... was an American recording artist ... . Referred to as the King of Pop, or by his initials MJ,^[1] Jackson is recognized ...

Does anyone have any objections? (Disclosure: I am the "other editor" mentioned above, who asserts that "MJ" should be mentioned explicitly on this page if Jackson is to be included on the MJ DAB page.) Mitch Ames (talk) 13:14, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

No objection from me (although personally I think IMDB is a crap resource for anything other of than film production credits). older ≠ wiser

The reason I used that particular source is that it is the only one I could find that actually states that Jackson was known as "MJ". All of the other references that have been mentioned (at Michael Jackson, Talk:Michael Jackson#Include mention MJ as nickname/moniker, Talk:MJ#Should this disambiguation page list Michael Jackson and Michael Jordan?) use the term "MJ" but do not state that it is a common nickname. At best is inappropriate use of WP:Primary sources, at worst our counting the usages is WP:OR or WP:SYNTH. (See also: WP:GOOGLE.) Is there another ("better", more reliable) source that states that Jackson was known as or referred to as MJ? Mitch Ames (talk) 23:14, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

No, although my original opinion that shoehorning such an obvious statement is gratuitously unnecessary remains unchanged. older ≠ wiser 17:51, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Done. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:19, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

The ref doesn't appear to display correction - it shows square brackets and the URL, and I can't figure out why. Can someone else see what's wrong and fix it? Mitch Ames (talk) 13:21, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Someone deletes Information on Michael for no apparent reason I will add information about songwriting and the musical instruments he played on records — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drugsarebad89 (talk • contribs) 01:37, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Looking at the edit you keep trying to make, I see a lot of changes to references. That's probably one of the major things that's causing people to object to your edit. I suggest breaking the edit into smaller chunks and discussing each of the changes (songwriting, instruments played) here; it's often easier to get consensus on smaller changes than on one massive edit. —C.Fred (talk) 01:41, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

I believe that the issue of Jackson's "Instruments" Category has already been discussed multiple times in the past. Jackson wasn't a serious drummer, guitarist, or pianist, so "drums, guitar, and piano" should not be listed as his instruments. And "beatbox" is not an instrument.Jpcohen (talk) 01:46, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

can we create an article about «Rumors around Michael Jackson» in this wiki? Because i created an article in persian wiki and it very good article. please visit it. Shahroozporia (talk) 19:27, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Not having any knowledge of the Persian language, I had to rely on a Google Translate version which can be seen here. There are some old friends here, and many of these claims have been discussed or are mentioned in the article. "Rumors" is generally a very unsuitable word to use in a Wikipedia article, because it inevitably implies a lack of verifiability and reliable sourcing.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Can someone move the sentence:

Jackson was entombed on September 3, 2009, at Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Glendale, California.[237]

to just after:

Reverend Lucious Smith provided a closing prayer.[231]

and consider moving the text starting with:

On August 24, several news outlets quoted anonymous sources...

and ending with:

by prosecutors in Los Angeles.[236]

to either a new paragraph or to the "Death of Michael Jackson" article? It doesn't really fit in here. I agree with the idea of keeping the information about the doctor's trial in Wikipedia, but not where it is. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.90.128.130 (talk) 02:06, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't have the time at the moment to do this but Dr. Conrad Murray's alleged involvement in the death of Michael Jackson is probably a relevant issue that should appear in this article. It doesn't have to be very long even and can link to People_of_the_State_of_California_v._Conrad_Robert_Murray. G90025 (talk) 18:56, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

• Actually, screw it. I'll do it in a minute here as long as it's seen as useful to other community members. G90025 (talk) 19:04, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
  • I found that there was a sufficient statement in the article already so all I did was add a link to the trial. G90025 (talk) 19:09, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

m — Preceding unsigned comment added by GlenGar (talk • contribs) 14:33, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

How could anybody forget Wacko Jacko??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by E-Scope90 (talk • contribs) 18:33, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Under Death and Memorial section, I think a photo of statue of MJ should be included.

92.4.152.204 (talk) 14:41, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

This statue of Jackson at Fulham F.C. was unveiled in 2011, and it has to be said that not everyone was a fan. On a purely technical note, the image on Commons does not show Jackson's face clearly, which would be helpful.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:04, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Bidhdh: Micheal's middle name is Joe, not Joseph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bidhdh (talk • contribs) 22:22, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Regarding Michael Jackson's middle name, it appears you have changed it from Joe to Joseph. Please keep the middle name Joe, as it is his real middle name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apron Jim (talk • contribs) 00:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source for that claim? Because the current source cited states that his middle name is Joseph. From the death certificate supplied by the LA County Department of Health Services. Dave Dial (talk) 00:26, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Michael's middle name is Joe because in the documentary ALIVE! Is Michael Jackson Really Dead? states that the Death Certificate is forged, and that Michael's Liscence says that Michael's Middle name is Joe — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apron Jim (talk • contribs) 20:04, November 10, 2011

That is not a reliable source, and we do not reply on fringe conspiracy theories for cited sources. Dave Dial (talk) 01:16, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

A driver's license is a primary source, so it's not something we can use here anyway (except as an illustration). Rklawton (talk) 02:18, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

If someone can find the court papers online, one or more of the Jackson-related trials might state his full name. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:23, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Court files are primary sources. Rklawton (talk) 02:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Just as an aside, primary sources would be fine. It doesn't mean the OP is correct, but its not like you must ignore all primary sources as though they don't exist. Primary sources can be used to support basic facts; but cannot be used for analysis. The fact of his name can be supported by a primary source document. However, that does NOT mean that the OP is correct. He's pretty clearly wrong based on the preponderance of evidence, when weighing all sources. However, if you are going to argue against him, choose a different arguement than "we can never use primary sources". That is not now, has never been, and likely will never be part of established Wikipedia practice. --Jayron32 02:55, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Good point. We can use the facts from primary sources but not to synthesize our own analysis. In the case of a middle name, that wouldn't be a problem. Rklawton (talk) 02:58, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

::Yes, the problem with the drivers licence is that he gakked it off some internet site and we have no clue as to its (in)authenticity. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:59, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Like his father "Joe" seems to be a short form.....as seen in....

• The reference in the article

File:Michael Jackson death certificate.jpg

• Joseph is also used on his LAST WILL

Last Will and Testament

• His fortune was all under the title Estate of Michael Joseph Jackson

Estate of Michael Joseph Jackson aka Michael Jackson

• Books he has written and published like Moomwalk use Joseph

Michael Jackson (13 October 2009). Moonwalk. Random House Digital, Inc. pp. 6–. ISBN 978-0-307-71698-9. Retrieved 11 November 2011.

• In interviews with him over the years "Ebony" has used "Joseph"

Johnson Publishing Company (December 2007). Ebony. Johnson Publishing Company. p. 94. ISSN 0012-9011.

Johnson Publishing Company (May 1984). Ebony. Johnson Publishing Company. p. 163. ISSN 0012-9011.

• Looks like he wrote "Joseph" himself on his kids Birth certificates

MJ jr and Paris birth certificates

• 3 of his children also have this middle name - I think this would be odd if his name is simply Joe.

Mary K. Pratt (1 January 2010). Michael Jackson: King of Pop. ABDO. p. 100. ISBN 978-1-60453-788-8.

.........Moxy (talk) 07:16, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Only post mortem released documents say Joseph, every document prior his dead say JOE:

• This is the 2005 trial case report where says Joe, so THERE ARE sources saying JOE.

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/jacko/cajackson121803cmp.pdf

http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/031605minuteorder.pdf

There are also videos of the verdict saying JOE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb9quJKgWg

People vs Jackson case Court records saying JOE:

http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/partiesAndAttorneys.cfm?dist=2&doc_id=1113346&doc_no=B174685 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Somekindofsign (talk • contribs) 18:02, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

• People vs Jackson case article calls him JOE.
• His copyrights are JOE´s.

http://www.copyright.gov/records/

Billie Jean: http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=1&ti=1,1&Search_Arg=jackson%20michael%20joe&Search_Code=NALL&CNT=25&PID=Tn676LL0cNle-_dtkgXlFwDx84nFi&SEQ=20111112124603&SID=5

• Jermaine has published a book where says he doesn´t know where the Joseph rumor comes from and that his name is Joe as listed in his birth certificate.

"You Are Not Alone: Michael Through A Brother´s Eyes" (2011), Page 43.

http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Not-Alone-Brothers/dp/1451651562

Page 43 screenshot: http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/972/joeq.png — Preceding unsigned comment added by Somekindofsign (talk • contribs) 13:12, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I insist only post mortem documents says Joseph but we have 50 years of documents saying JOE.

• Why Drivers License IS a reliable source:

If we cannot trust a driving license as a source how is it that the body identification was made through such a document?

• Autopsy Report: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf

Page 1: "ID METHOD: CALIFORNIA DRIVER LICENSE"

Page 3: Identification: "The body was positively identified by visual comparision to his California Drivers License on 6/25/09")

• Why kids birth certificate together with the Will are not a good source:

One of them must be wrong as Blanket name in the will is Prince Michael Joseph Jackson II and in the BC is Prince Michael Jackson II.

Debbie Rowe´s name in Prince´s brith certificate is Deborah Jeanne Rowe, while in the Last Will it is Deborah Jean Rowe.

Sources supporting Joseph are not that reliable as you can see, plus death certificate has been leaked to the press. So please,if you´re not going to put it right, at least admit both can be right or a we don´t know... and put both of the names as both are EQUALY proven by sources or add a section about this, as for many people the Joe thing is very important. .........Somekindofsign (talk) 17:31, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

You need to stop this. It's more than a bit strange that once the Apron Jim was blocked for abusing multiple accounts you started editing immediately after. In any case, this has been discussed many times on this Talk page, and I would direct you to the most current consensus I could find, here, stating that the most reliable sources all state his middle name is Joseph. The middle name on this article has been sourced as 'Joseph' since 2003, so you need to gain clear consensus for any change to the article. We are not going to go around and around the conspiracy Mulberry bush again and again. Dave Dial (talk) 15:47, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

O well I see we have conspiracy people back - I though there was actually a new person asking for this info as if they did not know. Not a fan of the lies Quote "only post mortem documents says Joseph" really? Because out of the 8 references above 5 are from before his death. Next we will see edits indicating hes not dead at all LOL.Moxy (talk) 16:15, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I don´t know what you are talking about Apron Jim, I just red the article and saw the discussion about Joseph/Joe and provided a reliable source saying Joe. Are you telling me that 2003´s court documents are not a reliable source? You can watch the sentence video in 2005. It clearly states Joe. I don´t know what is the thing that needs to stop. But I think there are some users here that are seizing the Thruth or claimming to posses it when the thing is not clear at all. (sorry, English is not my mother tongue and I don´t know if I expressed what I wanted to express right). But I guess you´re accusing me of something I just don´t know what´s about. I´ve always known Michael Jackson as Joe, that´s all, and I provided reliable sources anr reliable sources of why the sources provided here may also be wrong about Joseph. Or maybe his own brother doesn´t know his name, or court documents are wrong (any one some of them must be wrong wether it´s Joseph or Joe). Obviously I´m not in the side of the members that have the power here. What am I supposed to do know? Changing it again? Just giving it as lost? or hoping you change it?... I guess the result is going to be that wikipedia official version is that Joseph is right and if, as you say, many people have tried to change it to Joe without success and being name vandals... there´s no chance... no matter if there are arguments and relieable sources or not.

--Somekindofsign (talk) 16:41, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I gently invite you to check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson

And the legal sources provided: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Police_and_courts Cheers! --Somekindofsign (talk) 16:58, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

So your saying that hes signature and hes publications and hes estate are all wrong when they have Joseph. So your saying that for the past 30 years hes been publishing things under the wrong name? Further question do you believe that MJ is still alive and that the name controversy is prof of this? You have said that only after his death do they use Joseph - pls see below here are just a few (I can find thousands more).

• Adrian Grant (1994). Michael Jackson: The Visual Documentary. Music Sales Group. pp. 8–. ISBN 978-0-85712-212-4. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)
• Lisa D. Campbell (March 1993). Michael Jackson: the king of pop. Branden Books. pp. 371–. ISBN 978-0-8283-1957-7. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

It appears that he used both "Joe" and "Joseph" as a middle name. The death certificate says "Joseph." Timothy Horrigan (talk) 21:51, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

The source of info on a DC is typically the next of kin, so one would assume they would know his correct name. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:45, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi! I don't know if anyone else agrees with me but I think it is high time Michael Jackson's two eldest children, Prince Jackson who was born on February 13th 1997 who is now 14 and Paris Jackson who was born on April 3rd 1998 who is now 13 had their own Wikipedia articles. They are both old enough now and I think they both fit in well with the Wikipedia notability guidelines.

One of the guidelines about notable persons mentions that the person has to have information on them somewhere which directly refers to them and not be affiliated with anybody else. There are websites which mention both Prince and Paris as separate from Michael since his death because they both attend a regular school now and they continue their father's legacy of charity and helping disadvantaged children. None of the websites are official but some of them do give accurate biographical information on both Prince and Paris.

I know I might get the argument that just because they're Michael's kids doesn't make them notable or deserving of a Wikipedia article but I think they do deserve their own articles at this point because as I mentioned they are doing good things for charity at their young ages. Most kids aged 13 and 14 don't really care about that kind of thing whereas these children do and they understand the importance of giving back to society after their father gave the world so much.

Like I said I don't know if anyone else agrees with me about creating separate Wikipedia pages for Prince and Paris but if people do then maybe we can collabarate together on it and we can work out how we can stop redirecting Michael's kids to Michael Jackson's page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimrav1988 (talk • contribs) 01:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

They are not really notable enough for a separate article. Other than being the children of a celebrity, they are not notable in their own right. There are also privacy issues, as children under 18 are usually unsuitable subjects for a full article.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 01:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Agree with ianmacm as per WP:Relationships do not confer notability we should also be mined full of WP:Privacy of personal information as there was a great effort to omit them from the public eye since birth (yet to no real avail).Moxy (talk) 04:29, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Or "mindful", even. Until MJ's kids do anything notable other than being MJ's kids, they don't need separate pages. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:43, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I suppose that's true. I guess as Prince, Paris and maybe even little Blanket get older and if they start becoming famous for various reasons in their own right then they could have a page but I guess you people do have a point there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.177.12 (talk) 13:36, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Michael Jordan's father has his own article, and the only thing he did aside from have a famous son was get murdered. MJ's kids have been on world tv far more often than that. Rklawton (talk) 13:39, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

If one of the kids is involved in something dramatic, then it could be a different story. Which of the kids is the one that MJ infamously held over the edge of a balcony? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:24, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

That was Prince. Rklawton (talk) 16:31, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

To Rklawton: It was actually Michael's youngest child, Blanket that was shown from the balcony not Prince. Prince is the eldest child.

There's lots of young (and old) people less noteable than the 3 Jackson children who have their own articles. Paris in particular spoke at one of the most-watched TV broadcasts in history: that alone makes her noteable. Basket is noteable because he was the dangled baby in the baby-dangling incident. Prince is also a well-known person. Be that as it may, these noteability debates are paradoxical. Except in rare cases, no one cares— or even notices— if a truly obscure person has a Wikipedia article or not. Noteability debates arise only when the person is in fact well-known. Timothy Horrigan (talk)

To Timothy Horrigan: Firstly Michael didn't 'dangle' the baby. He was holding the child so people could see him. Secondly the child's name is Blanket not Basket. That doesn't make him notable. When I started the discussion here about whether Michael's children should have their own Wikipedia pages I was referring to the two older children: Prince and Paris who are 14 and 13. I wasn't referring to Blanket because he is still very young at the age of 9. Got no idea why people are mentioning Blanket now because I didn't actually say anything about him having a Wikipedia page.

Yes, Paris spoke at her father's funeral. Again, famous solely for being his child. So assuming you write such an article, what can you say other than, "so-and-so is MJ's child"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:50, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

To Baseball_Bugs: Well one could write that Paris and Prince help carry on their father's great legacy of giving charity and helping disadvantaged children and that they both aspire to be in the entertainment industry like Michael. Prince has said in interview that he would like to have a career in directing and producing films and Paris has said she wants to get into acting so there are things that could be written.

Maybe once they actually do, as opposed to "they would like to." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:17, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

But they've still received more media attention and made more public appearances than Michael Jordan's father. Rklawton (talk) 16:11, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I have the Cirque Du Soleil book that comes with Michael's newest album Immortal and on the last page it says Discography and it has these albums in this order

Off The Wall Thriller Bad Dangerous HIStory Invincible Michael

So shouldn't it be added here ? I mean it has 10 brand new songs and according to the producers Michael was planning on releasing it before his death doesn't that make it a studio album ? Link to photo--ADKIc3mAnX (talk) 04:32, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

"Jackson died of acute propofol intoxication on June 25, 2009, after suffering from cardiac arrest"

1. To the layman, this kind of sounds like he died twice.

2. Is "Jackson died of acute propofol intoxication" definitely a known fact now?

86.176.208.173 (talk) 02:43, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello, some time ago I proposed adding some information about Jackson’s vocal range, which, to my knowledge, has impressed a lot of listeners. As such, it ought to be notable. My proposal, however, was refuted, due to lack of reliable sources.

Now there is such a source. Let me quote from ”Man in the Music” (Joseph Vogel, Sterling Publishers 2011, ISBN 978-1-4027-7938-1), page 10:

❞ From a technical standpoint, Jackson’s broad range allowed him to move fluidly through nearly four octaves (this was something he worked very hard to achieve as an adult, though he rarely pushed his range to the limits). A natural tenor, his singing in the upper register was smooth and sublime, yet he could also be effective in his lower register, occasionally even dropping down to a baritone. Everyone who worked with him commented on his perfect pitch. ❞

Now, can someone please add some information about Jackson’s voice! After all, the man was a singer.

--Musubana (talk) 10:15, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

What is his religion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.125.135 (talk) 21:12, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

There are no definitive answers, but tabloids have called him a jehovas witness, muslim and Kabballah follower. But MJ himself never confirmed any of this Pass a Method talk 16:46, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Michael Jackson was in many people’s opinion, first a philanthropist and humanitarian, then an artist! He used his art to promote awareness to causes that destroy our world on daily basis. Up to few months ago, when you'd come to visit Wikipedia, the sentence started with "was an American recording artist, entertainer, Philanthropist and businessman. Why is it that you suddenly took the word philanthropist out!? To many, the first summery of Wikipedia, is all they look at before they decide to read the rest of the article. In fact Michael's humanitarian work, has more than 100 references, you know that! So many personality on Wikipedia, have a section under their name, called: "philanthropy and charitable work". I do understand that it's impossible to put all of Michael's charitable work in one article, but you can at least add it, and refer to a link, and create a whole new link with his philanthropic work. That's the kind of stuff that inspires others and makes them remember what is the real goal in their lives. I personally love to know of other's charitable work. It gives me ideas and it inspires me. It also provides faith that there are people in the world who truly care and that we can be united.

Sshojaee (talk) 18:23, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

| alias = Michael Joe Jackson, MJ, King Of Pop

Alex239 (talk) 22:39, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Done --Bryce (talk | contribs) 02:25, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

According to estate, Michael Jackson has sold 1 billion records worldwide.

"Michael Jackson is one of the most beloved entertainers and profoundly influential artists of all-time. To date Jackson has sold an estimated 1 billion records worldwide, released 13 No.1 singles and became one of a handful of artists to be inducted twice into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame."

SOURCE The Estate of Michael Jackson

• http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-estate-of-michael-jackson-plans-graumans-chinese-theatre-hand--footprint-ceremony-celebrating-the-king-of-pop-january-26-2012-136740033.html --193.64.22.23 (talk) 09:55, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

 Not done - Two issues with your proposition. First off, you see the source? The estate of Michael Jackson, most probably in the form of a record label etc. We can only use reliable third-party sources, not re-prints of information from his team. Also, his certifications only equal 156 million, not even close to the required amount for that inflated number.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 10:54, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe they rounded up to the nearest billion. Would a source like Billboard have reliable information on record sales? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:14, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Billboard almost never reports worldwide sales. They only report US sales, tracked by Nielsen SoundScan. The second issue remains...--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 11:48, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

In general, are there any independent sources for record sales globally, or at least non-US? Not just of Jackson, but of anyone? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

As pointed out before, there appear to have been attempts in recent years to inflate Jackson's record sales. The source cited for the one billion figure is not neutral and reliable enough.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:19, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Interesting read. I conclude two things: (1) The true figure appears to be unknowable; and (2) The approximate figure appears to be more in the neighborhood of 200 million, than anything close to a billion. The dilemma is that slippery term, "records". Does that mean albums or songs? Or something in between? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:35, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

1 billion records is outright laughable. 1000000000 (number) is a number that is not possible to reach.Moxy (talk) 17:32, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

How do you figure? The US Government spends that many dollars in a couple of hours. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

In the age of digital downloads, online streaming and widespread piracy, record sales are almost meaningless anyway. There seems to have been some creative accounting to arrive at the oft-quoted figure of 750 million records, and the 1 billion figure looks like it has been plucked from the air by a record or PR company, which is not a reliable source.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:50, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree that we can't put a number in the article without a reliable source that isn't promotional, but how do you figure that it's impossible? Jackson had been releasing records since he was a child and has 21 top selling singles, as well as numerous top selling 'albums'. So even if Jackson has about 10 million fans worldwide that bought all of his top selling singles(not even counting the dozens upon dozens that were not top selling), that 200 million sales right there. So I would say it's not impossible at all, and in fact the number may very well be close to a billion if you include everything he ever released(singles, albums, mp3 downloads, etc). Dave Dial (talk) 17:58, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

All this has been talked about before (I cant seem to find the old talk)...But there was a news report about it. Needless to say a billion 'record sales in way way off any real numbers we have. Moxy (talk) 18:18, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out. There is a risk of circular sourcing on this issue (media cites Wikipedia, then Wikipedia cites media in a feedback loop). The higher figures are dubious and should not be given prominence in the article.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:31, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry I cant find the old talk .. may have been on Jimmy Wales talk page ..as I believe Jimbo commented on the article.Moxy (talk) 18:43, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure that's our Jimbo? It doesn't look like his writing style. Of course, we can just ask him. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 18:50, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, again I do agree that we can't put up numbers that aren't sourced. But the link you give isn't any better as far as numbers are concerned. They cite some guy in France that has a website. Dave Dial (talk) 19:03, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Agree 190.51.186.160 (talk) 22:56, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's middle name was NOT Joseph. It was simply Joe. I know this for a fact because his brother states this in a biography he wrote about his brother called "You are not alone Michael" The press assumed his middle name was Joseph because that was his fathers name, but their father was often referred to as Joe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.75.52 (talk) 08:53, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Pls see here and here.Moxy (talk) 05:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I've just prepared a family tree of Michael Jackson. It is not perfect yet, but I think it is sourced enough to be acceptable on Wikipedia.

I had prepared the same family tree for the French page and I just translated it into English.

The thing is Karl 334 told me it could be better on a new article with a link to this one because it makes the article too cluttered. I think it would do better on the Jackson family article with a new chapter about the Jacksons' ancestry. There is also another family tree on French article Famille Jackson about the members of the family, which I want to translate and integrate here.

I would like to know what you all think about that...

Keckel (talk) 19:52, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

A lot of the sources are blogs and fan sites, so I'd find some more reliable sources. Also, in my opinion you may want to consider adding the family tree to the Jackson family article, which is about his family whereas this article is about Jackson the person. szyslak (t) 03:24, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Agree, quite a few sourcing issues here.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:40, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

There are some real problems with the addition not only is it mostly referenced to Wikipedia (even a Category) it has some other very bad refs in it aswell (references below 12 to 26)

• http://www.michael-jackson-trader.com
• http://www.musicstop.org/michael-jackson

- All that said - if we can find some real refs I do like the section. What do others think? Moxy (talk) 03:44, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Although Michael Jackson preferred to use his voice to compose and dictate a riff or beat for songs for other instrumentalists by Beatboxing he could play several instruments and was an instrumentalist in his own right. Jackson began in the Jackson 5 as a bongo/drums player^[12] and tambourine and congas player.^[13] He is pictured in early Jackson 5 photos playing the bongos and drums. As an adult he is known to have learned to play the piano, the guitar, the Moog synthesizer, the Moog Taurus^[14] and the keyboard. He is created with the instrumentation for some of his songs, notably the guitar riff for "They Don't Really Care About Us"^[15], "Scream"^[16][17] and the guitar for his song "Money".^[18] He is credited for playing multiple instruments for songs on his "Invincible" Album^[19][20] and other of his albums from "Off The Wall"^[21] to the present.^[22] Jackson has also written, co-written, composed, produced or played instruments in songs for other artists^[23] including famous names such as Diana Ross, Johnny Mathis, Jennifer Holliday, Ralph Tresvant and The Notorious B.I.G.^[24].^[25][26]

− − Jackson's songs and ballads were often massive undertakings and the personnel listings of his songs and albums often list many people involved with the instrumentation and composition for his songs. For most songs Jackson did not perform most of the instrumentation himself, though he would usually be the main composer and arranger of his songs. He gave credit to other musicians, composers and producers who frequently appeared in his music, such as Quincy Jones, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Rodney Jerkins, Rod Temperton, Slash, Dr. Freeze and Eddie van Halen.

Hey! I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me about the disagreement over the editing. When you pointed out that some of the sources were simply blogs I did realize my error (I compiled the paragraphs in only a couple of goes and forgot that I put in blogs instead of actual links a couple of times). I've been working diligently to replace them and some links that just source back to Wikipedia with independent references but it will take a little time due to the sheer amount of OR sites that are out there. Even though Michael Jackson was an instrumentalist in his own right, unfortunately the fact that he didn't publicize or boast about his instrumentalism and the fact that he often surrounded himself with a legion of other instrumentalists for personnel in much of his work makes finding sources that pinpoint what he did precisely in any given song difficult and painstaking. A lot of Mr. Jackson's works are very much basically orchestras. I am glad that you specified which sources are problematic. It helps me a great deal and it verified that you aren't simply someone deleting the edits out of issues with the subject in question. I've had bad experiences before on Wikipedia with editors like that who let personal vendettas guide their edits.

I'm glad you like the section by the way. :) Full Shunyata (talk) 03:58, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

First let me say sorry for not doing this the first time i reverted the addition (or talking to you about it) - To be honest I was thinking you were someone else (AGAIN SORRY!) All that is here looks great - Can we find the info we need from the books link in the next sentence. See here for all the books that are online - note when in a book on the right hand side you can search for text. PS I will also look over the booksMoxy (talk) 04:25, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

That's quite alright, friend. To be honest I am guilty of doing the same thing myself on other edits. That source looks like a great one to use! Thank you for finding it. Looks like a great addition to add to the citations to make the new section better and much cleaner. Hope to work with you again soon! Full Shunyata (talk) 04:28, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

It's definitely way outdated, he has sunglasses on, and it's an unclear view on his face. I think we should have a photo of Jackson from the 00's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.94.240.194 (talk) 03:09, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

It says in the article about Michael Jackson that (MJs) "13 number-one singles in the United States in his solo career (more than any other male artist in the Hot 100 era);".

Thats not correct. If you check the link in the article, it shows that Elvis Presley has 17.

The article is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Norww73 (talk • contribs) 21:49, 15 March 2012 (UTC) It's not wrong, at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley_hit_singles — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.0.168.187 (talk) 18:14, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Presley has 17-18 #1 singles as of recent, therefore he holds the record. Not only that Wikipedia article supports it, but the article on Jackson's awards as well, please address this. -HCYS comment added 18:46, 1 April 2012 (UTC).

I checked Presley's discography, and I only see seven or eight number one singles during the Hot 100 era (the others were before the Hot 100 was established on August 4, 1958). The statement in this article is correct as written. —C.Fred (talk) 21:19, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Technically correct, yes, but is it noteworthy? The fact remains that Presley has hit the top of the US singles chart more times than Jackson (and The Beatles more than either of them, incidentally).--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:52, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Michaels Middle name was Joe Not joseph. Stated by his own Brother in his book and his birth certificate

"From somewhere, and especially after Michael's death, a rumor began that his middle name was Joseph. Maybe this myth prefers the echo with our father's name because the crossover reads better about a father and a son who struggled to see eye to eye. 'Joe' was his middle name, as recorded on his birth certificate." - Jermaine Tombo671 (talk) 06:09, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

This has been discussed multiple times, check the archives. Most reliable sources say Joseph and there was consensus reached here to keep it at that.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:47, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I know Michael was African-American, but was he also Chinese> Here are some sources that say he was http://pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?p=46231724 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibG9dZTNHAo AttilaBrady (talk) 01:22, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

The forum thread says "Michael even referred himself as Chinese, as according to Michael, his mother Katherine was of a quarter Chinese descent." The article Katherine Jackson does not mention this, and it would require more than a WP:SPS.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:10, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I propose changing the 3 titles in the listen template by adding "(excerpt)", e.g. to title2 = "Smooth Criminal (excerpt)". Consensus? --Elvey (talk) 19:59, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Dear Wikipedia, I recently looked on Michael Jackson, my favorite artist, page and it was brought to my attention that his newest album Michael is not on the discography section after Invincible 2001. I would like to request that I edit the discography section only to add his latest album on there. After Invinsible 2001 it will say Michael 2010

Sincerely,

Matt Holbert

P.S. Here is a link that you have to the latest album

Michael_(album)

MAHLOVEINC (talk) 18:43, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

 Not done The discography section is only for studio albums as Michael Jackson discography exists. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 19:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible for an article to be created for the middle child, Paris? She is starring in a movie based on a fantasy novel and has done television interviews related to the film. As of now, unlike her two brothers, she is now no longer just famous for being the offspring of another famous person.

I agree! How would one go about writing a Wikipedia article about Paris though? I mean I know how to write a Wikipedia article but how would we go about doing it so her article doesn't always get re-directed to Michael's own article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.183.90.250 (talk) 10:38, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In my opinion, there should be a alternate page where it talk's about Michael Jackson abusing, and touching... children. Mreditorkid (talk) 15:32, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Not done: This ain't an edit request. If you really think there need to be separate article on his alledged abuse, then please discuss and gain consensus. — Abhishek  ^Talk 15:35, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)We already have at least two articles about sexual abuse allegations. Please see 1993 child sexual abuse accusations against Michael Jackson and People v. Jackson. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 15:36, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

"Released in 1987, it is one of the greatest selling albums of all-time and sold over 45 million copies worldwide." by: taletela.com

Sources:

• http://www.taletela.com/news/15380/michael-jackson-partners-up-with-pepsi-again-30-years-later
• http://thatdame.com/headlines/pepsi-prepares-michael-jackson-bad-25th-anniversary-campaign/
• http://uptownmagazine.com/2012/05/pepsi-teams-with-michael-jackson-for-25th-anniversary-of-bad/
• http://www.thegrio.com/entertainment/pepsi-plans-new-campaign-for-michael-jacksons-bad-25th-anniversary.php
• http://theurbandaily.com/1921261/pepsi-plans-michael-jackson-bad-25th-anniversary-campaign/
• http://thatgrapejuice.net/2012/04/major-pepsi-michael-jackson-bad-2012/
• http://360mediauk.com/blog/2012/05/02/pepsi-sign-post-humous-deal-with-michael-jackson-estate/

--77.86.202.210 (talk) 14:16, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

More sources:

• http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/21/entertainment-us-michaeljackson-bad-idUSBRE84K0Z120120521
• http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/2012/05/michael-jacksons-bad-25-include-new-music-and-new-concert-dvd
• http://www.noise11.com/news/michael-jackson-25th-anniversary-bad-on-the-way-20120522
• http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/entertainment/news/article/206593--michael-jackson-s-bad-to-be-re-released-for-album-s-25th-anniversary
• http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/5/prweb9523811.htm
• http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/258982/showbiz/showbizabroad/michael-jackson-is-still-bad-25-years-after-album
• http://www.musicrooms.net/pop/48666-michael-jackson-s-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release.html
• http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/leisure/2012/05/22/jacko-returns-badder-than-ever/
• http://www.entertainment-focus.com/news/michael-jackson-estate-to-release-bad-25
• http://www.heart.co.uk/showbiz/showbiz-news/michael-jacksons-bad-gets-re-issue/
• http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/music/news/Michael+Jackson-240177.html
• http://www.mtv.no/news/michael-jackson-s-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release-33873/
• http://entertainment.stv.tv/showbiz/307048-michael-jacksons-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release/
• http://www.list.co.uk/article/42340-michael-jacksons-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release/
• http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Michael+Jackson+collection+shows+still+years+later/6657443/story.html
• http://studiospy.co.uk/2012/05/22/michael-jackson-to-release-bad-25/
• http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/Leisure/Entertainment/Michael-Jacksons-Bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release-655590.xnf?FeedSourceID=123&FeedImageID=1208176&BodyFormat=1&
• http://gulftoday.ae/portal/ffa49fb8-1268-4e55-b82e-b47165b74bfe.aspx
• http://www.evous.fr/Michael-Jackson-Bad-25-album-CD,1176475.html
• http://www.trinitycable.com/entertainment/index.php?display=story&article=BRE84K0Z1
• http://m.citynews.ca/entertainment/206593/index.php

--BadMuroZ (talk) 13:17, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

An image used in this article, File:Michael Jackson Lisa Marie Presley Neverland.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status as of 30 May 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Michael Jackson Lisa Marie Presley Neverland.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 21:11, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

THIS IS THE INFORMATION THAT I HAVE ON THIS IMAGE = its from this website http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaydeepooh/4213582179/ and has the following information = This is a PR photo. WENN does not claim any Copyright or License in the attached material. Fees charged by WENN are for WENN's services only, and do not, nor are they intended to, convey to the user any ownership of Copyright or License in the material. By publishing this material, the user expressly agrees to indemnify and to hold WENN harmless from any claims, demands, or causes of action arising out of or connected in any way with user's publication of the material. Supplied by WENN — Preceding unsigned comment added by MJKingofMusic (talk • contribs) 22:51, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Per the tag on that flickr page, the image is all-rights-reserved, so using it would have to comply with the non-free content criteria. However, the flickr link that MJKingofMusic provided is to a different image, so we're back where we started, really: copyright status is unclear. —C.Fred (talk) 00:20, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

"Released in 1987, it is one of the greatest selling albums of all-time and sold over 45 million copies worldwide." by: taletela.com

Sources:

• http://www.taletela.com/news/15380/michael-jackson-partners-up-with-pepsi-again-30-years-later
• http://thatdame.com/headlines/pepsi-prepares-michael-jackson-bad-25th-anniversary-campaign/
• http://uptownmagazine.com/2012/05/pepsi-teams-with-michael-jackson-for-25th-anniversary-of-bad/
• http://www.thegrio.com/entertainment/pepsi-plans-new-campaign-for-michael-jacksons-bad-25th-anniversary.php
• http://theurbandaily.com/1921261/pepsi-plans-michael-jackson-bad-25th-anniversary-campaign/
• http://thatgrapejuice.net/2012/04/major-pepsi-michael-jackson-bad-2012/
• http://360mediauk.com/blog/2012/05/02/pepsi-sign-post-humous-deal-with-michael-jackson-estate/

--77.86.202.210 (talk) 14:16, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

More sources:

• http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/21/entertainment-us-michaeljackson-bad-idUSBRE84K0Z120120521
• http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/2012/05/michael-jacksons-bad-25-include-new-music-and-new-concert-dvd
• http://www.noise11.com/news/michael-jackson-25th-anniversary-bad-on-the-way-20120522
• http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/entertainment/news/article/206593--michael-jackson-s-bad-to-be-re-released-for-album-s-25th-anniversary
• http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/5/prweb9523811.htm
• http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/258982/showbiz/showbizabroad/michael-jackson-is-still-bad-25-years-after-album
• http://www.musicrooms.net/pop/48666-michael-jackson-s-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release.html
• http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/leisure/2012/05/22/jacko-returns-badder-than-ever/
• http://www.entertainment-focus.com/news/michael-jackson-estate-to-release-bad-25
• http://www.heart.co.uk/showbiz/showbiz-news/michael-jacksons-bad-gets-re-issue/
• http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/music/news/Michael+Jackson-240177.html
• http://www.mtv.no/news/michael-jackson-s-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release-33873/
• http://entertainment.stv.tv/showbiz/307048-michael-jacksons-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release/
• http://www.list.co.uk/article/42340-michael-jacksons-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release/
• http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Michael+Jackson+collection+shows+still+years+later/6657443/story.html
• http://studiospy.co.uk/2012/05/22/michael-jackson-to-release-bad-25/
• http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/Leisure/Entertainment/Michael-Jacksons-Bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release-655590.xnf?FeedSourceID=123&FeedImageID=1208176&BodyFormat=1&
• http://gulftoday.ae/portal/ffa49fb8-1268-4e55-b82e-b47165b74bfe.aspx
• http://www.evous.fr/Michael-Jackson-Bad-25-album-CD,1176475.html
• http://www.trinitycable.com/entertainment/index.php?display=story&article=BRE84K0Z1
• http://m.citynews.ca/entertainment/206593/index.php

--BadMuroZ (talk) 13:17, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

An image used in this article, File:Michael Jackson Lisa Marie Presley Neverland.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status as of 30 May 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Michael Jackson Lisa Marie Presley Neverland.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 21:11, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

THIS IS THE INFORMATION THAT I HAVE ON THIS IMAGE = its from this website http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaydeepooh/4213582179/ and has the following information = This is a PR photo. WENN does not claim any Copyright or License in the attached material. Fees charged by WENN are for WENN's services only, and do not, nor are they intended to, convey to the user any ownership of Copyright or License in the material. By publishing this material, the user expressly agrees to indemnify and to hold WENN harmless from any claims, demands, or causes of action arising out of or connected in any way with user's publication of the material. Supplied by WENN — Preceding unsigned comment added by MJKingofMusic (talk • contribs) 22:51, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Per the tag on that flickr page, the image is all-rights-reserved, so using it would have to comply with the non-free content criteria. However, the flickr link that MJKingofMusic provided is to a different image, so we're back where we started, really: copyright status is unclear. —C.Fred (talk) 00:20, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

There is an image of Michael in a blue shirt that talks about his vitiligo. i was hoping someone could help me with copyright stuff, i dont really know what to do. but the information that i have is as follows = the file is from http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaydeepooh/4213582179/ and it says the following information - This is a PR photo. WENN does not claim any Copyright or License in the attached material. Fees charged by WENN are for WENN's services only, and do not, nor are they intended to, convey to the user any ownership of Copyright or License in the material. By publishing this material, the user expressly agrees to indemnify and to hold WENN harmless from any claims, demands, or causes of action arising out of or connected in any way with user's publication of the material. Supplied by WENN

is this enough info to allow the image to stay on wiki.

thank you for your time and patience. god blessMJKingofMusic (talk) 19:09, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, Flickr has that tagged as "All rights reserved", so we can't use it here. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:17, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Could someone please put Michael's signature in the info box, i don't really know how to do it. His signature is pretty funky and cool.

Thanks, god bless MJKingofMusic (talk) 22:23, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

i've added his signature so everything is good. no need to do anything for this section. 92.26.113.184 (talk) 21:39, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

− − I know this will probably be heresy but " Videos such as "Black or White" and "Scream" made him a staple on MTV in the 1990s. " I think this overstates Jackson's MTV impact during the 90's. He was touring during much of the 90's and his MTV impact was much less than during the 80's. I think it would be better to focus on the touring during the 90's and subsequent huge donations to charity. The Heal The World Foundation, environmental activism with Earth Song etc. The article needs a change of focus. Jackson was a touring artist in this decade, his output was much less, with Dangerous itself released at the beginning of the decade. Jackson's real impact on the 90s was as a continued cultural figure and touring artist.--Manboobies (talk) 04:36, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I placed this on the talk page last year, it was removed by an IP address and not reverted by any user. I will be watching the comment this time. This still needs to be sorted out!--Manboobies (talk) 15:15, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Michael can play guitar, piano, bongos, drums, keyboard, synthesizer, percussion and can beatbox. there is evidence of him playing these instruments and beatboxing in many videos a d articles. i don't know why it keeps being removed. if anyone wants evidence please ask and if you have any questions don't hesitate.

thanks for your time and patience, god blessMJKingofMusic (talk) 19:47, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

It's not supposed to be a list of every instrument he ever touched. There are several discussions in the archives about this. This is the most recent I see, but I might have missed some. --Onorem♠Dil 20:40, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

An author has stated that Michael was accomplished at both drums and piano. He has played percussion on many of his songs especially in his Off The Wall, History and Invincible albums. he also played bongos on his later jackson five works. look at the album credits of History it shows you he played keyboard and synthesizer. MJKingofMusic (talk) 22:04, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Consensus on this issue was already reached in past discussions in the archives of the talk page, as Onorem has noted. Jackson was not noted for his ability to play any instrument, including piano, guitar or drums. This is why "vocals" is the only category listed under instruments. In order to change the consensus, you would have to reach a new consensus with other editors of this page.Jpcohen (talk) 02:46, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

He was known to beatbox as he often did this for most of his songs. he would tape record what he heard in his mind and duplicate what instruments and sounds there were. Most musicians use a piano to reach and compare notes for songs, as did Michael. Therefore piano and beatbox should be put in.MJKingofMusic (talk) 11:58, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

You need to provide a good quality source to prove that -- See WP:RS. YouTube is not an acceptable source. Pol430 talk to me 18:35, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

before i edited the instruments section: vocals, piano, guitar and beatbox were already present. i jusy added bongos, synthesizer, keyboard and percussion. so i suggest you just add in what was before, which was piano, guitar and beatbox. if you research from youtube and album/song credits Michael has been credited with all the instruments i have mentioned. His 1995 HIStory album is when he began being heavily involved in playing instruments on the tracks.92.26.113.184 (talk) 21:23, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

there is also a new song being released this month i think to celebrate Bad 25. Its called Don't Be Messin' Around which features a solo piano by Michael Jackson. Shouldn't this count for something. also just because he is not known for it, does not mean that he wasn't amazing at it. for example many people don't know that michael jackson was an excellent drawer and he was planning to showcase his art in the 90's but due to his child molestation accusations it all fell apart. you can still see some images he has drawn on the net.92.26.113.184 (talk) 21:33, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Early reports of a piano solo were exaggerated, the song has no "piano solo". --Manboobies (talk) 15:28, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

throughout the whole song, he is playing piano. The song released is just one of a few versions. the one ore more of the other versions has the solo piano on it. Can we please come to a conclusion to the instruments. I was listening to an interview with Michael and his brothers and Michael said he plays the drums on many of the demo songs. Just because he is not known for playing instruments, doesn't mean they shouldn't be put up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MJKingofMusic (talk • contribs) 20:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

MJKingofMusic, the consensus on this issue (so far) has not fallen in your favor; and yet, you continue to change the "Instruments" section here to your preference as if it was. Other editors out there: am I misunderstood or is MJKingofMusic breaking the rules of Wikipedia etiquette concerning questionable edits?Jpcohen (talk) 04:18, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I have not been editing the MJ instruments for a few days. Who ever it is, it is not me. I have refrained from editing it.MJKingofMusic (talk) 13:24, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

My apologies.Jpcohen (talk) 01:11, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry my bad..it was me looking at what I thought was a stable version ...I think you fixed it. lots had to be fix again. PS anyone know how we got the odd ref format we are using?Moxy (talk) 01:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I have removed the following fair use images from this article as they did not have rationale for use:

• File:Michaeljanetscream.jpg
• File:Smooth criminal video.jpg
• File:You Rock My World.png - Also tagged for speedy deletion as there is no rationale at all on the image's page.
• File:Mjthriller.jpg
• File:Remember the time 140x105.jpg
• File:Michael Jackson Earth Song screenshot.JPG

They are still present in the articles they have rationale for (with the exception of the third, as noted above). --kelapstick^(bainuu) 00:33, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Updated with two mroe. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 08:45, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Someone keeps putting in Michael Joe Jackson. That is not his nickname or real name. he was never known as that. He is often referred to as the king of pop, MJ, king of pop, rock and soul (title given to him by Elizabeth Taylor and was thereafter said by his fans). MJKingofMusic (talk) 12:02, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Please note: The section in the infobox is not for 'nicknames' it is for legal aliases only. There is a difference. I don't know where the name Michael Joe Jackson came from, perhaps someone else can shed some light on that question? Pol430 talk to me 18:34, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I think it was first added with this edit . At the risk of stating the obvious, this is not an alias - its just his name with a slight shortening of the middle name. In my opinion we should leave it out.--SabreBD (talk) 17:27, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I think so to. i think we should remove the aliases as its causing a lot of editing, going back and forth with people. They just won't stop. If Michael Joe Jackson is going to be there, so should King of Pop, Rock & Soul. You can't have either, or. The names should fit in to what he was known for worldwide. Not just little name changes. MJKingofMusic (talk) 20:19, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

That does not necessarily follow, removing one does not mean we have to add another, and please stop changing this while there is an unresolved discussion here.--SabreBD (talk) 23:09, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

what i am trying to say is that the title, king of pop, rock & soul should be added, if Michael Joe Jackson is present. Michael was given this title by Elizabeth Taylor in 1989, but Michael was never verbally called Michael Joe Jackson by his family or friends.MJKingofMusic (talk) 04:32, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Elizabeth Taylor has absolutely nothing to do with it, and for the purposes of this particular template, alias is not the same as nickname. --Onorem♠Dil 05:02, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Onorem, I agree. For the purposes of the template, King of Pop should be removed, and MJ and Michael Joe Jackson may need to be removed. From the {{Infobox musical artist}} documentation: "For listing official stage names for the act or solo artist other than the name in the |name= parameter. Also for the solo artist's legal name(s), or other officially authorized names that differ from their birth name. This field is not for nicknames such as "The Godfather of Soul" (James Brown) or "Nippy" (Whitney Houston), which are not the artists' official names." That last sentence says, point blank, that Kind of Pop should not be in there. I'm inclined to remove all three and replace them with that quote inside a comment. —C.Fred (talk) 11:13, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I would support that.--SabreBD (talk) 11:30, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I also agreeMJKingofMusic (talk) 01:02, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Names have been removed as per our policy = Legal aliases only. This is not a value for nicknames.Moxy (talk) 12:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Please show references to where Jackson was ever called Michael Joe Jackson. For the time being i am going to remove the aliases as no evidence is present to show he was ever known as that name.MJKingofMusic (talk) 13:14, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Pls see here and here. Moxy (talk) 00:59, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Jermaine Jackson states in his book about his brother that his middle name on his birth certificate is Joe, not Joseph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoohoo98 (talk • contribs) 13:34, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

There is not much about Jackson's Dangerous World Tour. I think there needs to be more said about it. At the time it was a record breaking concerts tour in terms of grossings. I'm not exactly sure but i think most or all of the money was donated to charity. Could someone help in giving more information to add about the dangerous world tour and any other valuable information on Jackson around this Dangerous era. Thanks. MJKingofMusic (talk) 13:27, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Can we get you to propose any changes here before implementing them pls. We have had to do alot of cleanup for an FA article. FA articles may not be the best place to learn how wiki works - we have sourcing problems, Image problems etc... Pls contact me with any questions you may have.Moxy (talk) 23:50, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello MJKingofMusic - great idea - Jackson was a leading figure of touring during the 90s, this article focuses far too much on what was essentially a lesser album period and practically ignores the touring. There's no stand out info on the touring - Jackson promoted it amazingly hard - watching and looking at old promo information on the tour and Pepsi sponsorship of it is just amazing, like seeing a whole new Jackson. The intro could also do with another sentence on the impact of his touring philanthropy. Jackson didn't redefine his style that much after the start of the nineties, and the touring was a main factor - he was far too busy touring to do any major shifts musically - and so that's reflected in the music of the 90's itself- at the beginning with the radical overhaul in the sound in 91 which was heavily influenced by sister Janet's Rhythm Nation 1814 (which was in turn influenced by ideas Michael shared with Janet) & the Jackson's last album, and also by Jack Swing and the Minneapolis sound, and also a little of what Jackson himself had been working on, a stripped down hip hopped version of Bad's sound (audible in the demos for Dangerous), from there on the rest of the 90's is a development of the style and brings in influences from producers, but no major style changes until Invincible. --Manboobies (talk) 00:00, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I couldn't find any way to discuss, earlier there use to be discussion page as well. So I used this means to reach you. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Please go through link below and verify it. http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Europe/Michael-Jackson-converts-to-Islam/Article1-353162.aspx

As for Hindustan Times, it is english daily published in India, it gives the reference of The Sun. The news appeared on front page in print edition of the newspaper as well.

I shall not be available for discussion. This is some information provided and request to verify it. If verified please update the contents of protected page. You can find many article on the same topic, I mentioned just one.

122.161.226.199 (talk) 05:25, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

This is discussed in numerous places in the talk page archive, and is one of the FAQs in the talk page header. There is no good evidence that Michael Jackson converted to Islam, and all of the coverage can be traced back to a story in The Sun (United Kingdom).--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 05:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

"Guiness Book of records" is a ridiculos source when we talk about sales figures!! They changed the best-selling artist very often without contrloing the numbers they mostly took from reocrd labels or management. They bealeved the billion-nonsense from the elvislabel and from the beatles too, although they named it honstly units and not real sales. now they take the 750 million statement from MJs Management, although independente sources say its far less. most independente sources say Beatles have the most and than MJ and then Elvis, but even the Bealtes have only arround 600 millions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.21.6.138 (talk) 16:11, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

I am a new user who is not yet allowed to edit semi-protected pages. I would just like to make a point of saying that the image of the signature is missing the star that he usually put at the end of his signature. please fix this is you get a chance. I could scan the signature at the beggining of "Moonwalk" and put it on wikimedia Commons if need be. I have the book.

TreeClimber1 07:02, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

"This value for Jackson's Sony/ATV Music Publishing catalog is highly false. The catalog owns and controls many different record companies and has rights to more than 500,000 songs, including songs by The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Eminem, Akon, Shakira, Bjork, Boyz II Men and Lady Gaga, among hundreds of others. The company is one of the largest music publishers in the world and is believed to generate up to $2.5 billion a year; The Beatles' hits alone bring in $30 million to $45 million a year. Jackson's other publishing firm, Mijac, which publishes songs written by Jackson himself and which used to be administered by competitor Warner/Chappell Music, is valued to be worth at least $450 million."

This text is written in a persuasive voice and phrases like "highly false" (aside from having no real meaning in the English language) lack objectivity.

38.98.226.188 (talk) 21:11, 8 August 2012 (UTC)stinkerbell

Hey guys, so if any of you are interested in expanding the Jackson 5 half of "I'll Be There" with me, it'd be awesome. I'm interested in doing Mariah Carey's half, but really have no info or idea of their background/version etc. If anyone if interested in doing a joint GA (I've done several on my own, and many joint), please come by my page :)--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 14:23, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Something I don't quite understand and it would be better for somebody to just tell me why. Why is the main picture for MJ so outdated (all the way back to 1980?!) I thought the main picture should be relevant? Why aren't pictures from Jackson in, say, the 21st century used? (When they exist?) Please leave an answer. Thanks. Bonkers The Clown (talk) 05:58, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Later pictures of Jackson should be used with sections of the article about his later life, but it is reasonable to use a picture of him from the peak of his popularity in the infobox—remember, that's the picture where we're trying to give people the visual cue of who he was. That's why the main image is from the Thriller era. —C.Fred (talk) 12:10, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

I understand, but you talk about giving people the visual cue. how Jackson looked like in the later years is so different. Won't that be irrelevant and misleading? People will have a wrong idea as to how he looks like. I think a photo from bad would be better than thriller. (if i am not wrong, some pages about Michael on other language wikipedias use photos of Jackson in the history era) And why is it that other celebrity pages aren't like that? For other celebrity pages, its like regardless of when they were at the peak of fame, the latest free photo of them that can be found is used. Bonkers The Clown (talk) 08:12, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

One example: Sean Connery's peak of popularity was during the Bond era (around 1970-1980). But look at the infobox pic (2008, when, yup, he's still quite popular, but he looks like he's dying, he looks so different, what visual cue then?). Bonkers The Clown (talk) 10:43, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Probably for the same reason that Marlon Brando's picture isn't of the much heavier and significantly older Brando, but instead of the younger and more memorable one, or why Elizabeth Taylor's photo is during her younger years; the standard for dead celebrities isn't quite the same as the standard for live ones. Compare any older person with their younger self, and you'll surely notice a number of differences between them. Because of Michael's multiple plastic surgeries he had a significantly more pronounced difference than either of them did at fifty, but by your logic, we would have to go through every dead celebrity's profiles and use the most recently available picture of them, which would be both tiring, pointless, and detrimental. SST1337 (talk) 14:29, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

the standard for dead celebrities isn't quite the same as the standard for live ones. Jacko wasn't dead when Wikipedia was founded, and when this page was created, he was not yet a dead celebrity, so the standard for dead celebrities could not be applied. Then why didn't they use the most relevant photo of Jacko when he was alive? Bonkers The Clown (talk) 07:42, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I didn't mean to suggest that the person had to be dead before Wikipedia was created to avoid having the most recent picture of them listed on their profile, merely that dead celebrities often don't have their most recent picture on their profile page. Elizabeth Taylor also wasn't dead before Wikipedia was created, and her picture both now and before her death did not feature her in her older, significantly different state. (Two different photos were used, however, between then and now.)

Additionally, the french Wikipedia (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_jackson) uses a picture from 1985.SST1337 (talk) 20:17, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

okay.... well, since French wikipedia uses that pic, why don't we? (In my opinion, he looks better in that one.) So, is it advisable to change the pic? Bonkers The Clown (talk) 14:15, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Fichier:Michael Jackson avec des habits brillants.jpg looks as though it may have copyright issues, as there are multiple hits for it on http://www.tineye.com/ . "Ce fichier n'est pas catégorisé" (this file has no categories) and the September 12, 2012 upload date are a worry. The fact that someone has successfully uploaded an image to Commons does not necessarily mean that it is copyright free. All of the English language images of Michael Jackson on Commons have been carefully checked. If the French image really is Creative Commons licensed, I would be *very* surprised.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:51, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

In the past, many people have used false etymology to convince themselves that words like buck, picnic, crowbar and niggardly have racist origins. It would be interesting to know how Joseph Vogel came up with the extraordinary pearl of wisdom that "Wacko Jacko" is based on Jacco Macacco. Nobody else has ever said this. This looks like another urban legend based purely on the similarity in the words.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:04, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Under Wikipedia guidelines, it is not our place to debate what a highly reliable source states. While you're free to call Vogel's information an "urban legend" on your own blog or on Facebook, and to say you disagree with the info he presents, unless you can provide reliably sourced information to support your view you have no grounds for removing this info from the article.

For the benefit of everyone else, here's the sentence about Wacko Jacko that I believe should be added to the section "Appearance, tabloids, Bad, films, autobiography and Neverland (1986–90)":

The phrase was first used by the British tabloid The Sun and appears to have been derived from the Cockney slang term "Jacco" or "Jacco Macacco," which is a reference to monkeys.

This information is from "How Michael Jackson Made Bad" by Joseph Vogel in The Atlantic. Ianmacm disagrees with the edit and keeps reverting it, saying it is "wildly speculative" and WP:SYNTH. However, it is neither of these. The Atlantic (formerly known as The Atlantic Monthly) is one of the most respected magazines in the world; the magazine also employs a number of fact checkers, so it is rare for the magazine to publish inaccurate information. In addition, Vogel is a highly respected scholar and author of five books, including the acclaimed Man in the Music: The Creative Life and Work of Michael Jackson, which is a highly researched book (in fact, probably one of the most researched, scholarly books on the life of Michael Jackson).

In my opinion this reliably referenced information should be in the article. Any thoughts from other editors?--SouthernNights (talk) 17:23, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I called BS on this because it bears all the hallmarks of false etymology. It is agreed that the British tabloid press invented the "Wacko Jacko" tag back in the 1980s, but Joseph Vogel's explanation of the phrase's origin looks home brewed and highly unconvincing. Nobody else has ever said this, and the etymology of phrases is a graveyard of fallacies and false assumptions. There are several online dictionaries of Cockney rhyming slang, and none of them has this explanation. It is an extraordinary rabbit to pull out of a hat without anything to back it up beyond Mr. Vogel's assertion derived from the similarity between the two words. --♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:43, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I mean no disrespect, but that is your opinion. Unfortunately, all that matters for this discussion is if the sentence above accurately represents what the referenced source says, and is the reference reliable. On both points the answer is yes. To me, your objections smack of original research. If you wish to write an article about how this is false etymology, please do so. Once The Atlantic publishes your article it will no longer be original research. But until then it is, and I believe we should go with the information which can be reliably referenced.

Since obviously we don't agree with each other, I say we let other editors chime in and see if a consensus can be reached.--SouthernNights (talk) 17:55, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Joseph Vogel may well have succeeded in convincing himself that this is the origin of the phrase, but he would have a tougher job elsewhere. This is one of those rare occasions where I am not really interested in the sourcing, because this looks like Mr. Vogel's opinion and no-one else's.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:05, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict × 2)Is this explanation a “significant view” per WP:NPOV? Given that the article you cite has been published less than a week ago and it is the first (and so far only) source to argue this is how that “nickname” was invented I don't think it is. What could be done (I'm not sure it should be done before other sources have discussed Mr Vogel's theory) is to include it with attribution. --Six words (talk) 18:26, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Six words is right. No-one else in the entire history of writing about Michael Jackson has suggested that this is the origin of the "Wacko Jacko" phrase, so unless Joseph Vogel knows something that all previous biographers and journalists do not, this information should be regarded with caution.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:42, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

We could also contact Joseph Vogel and ask how this remarkable information has escaped all previous writers' attention.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:02, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Private correspondence isn't a reliable source (for Wikipedia use). But if you contact him anyway I'm interested in his explanation though. --Six words (talk) 19:14, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I was thinking about the recent Philip Roth saga here. As we should all know by now, writers are always a reliable source on their own work.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:19, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

The problem is that it wouldn't be a published source - we'd have your word that what you cite is Mr Vogel's reply, but who'd be able to verify it? --Six words (talk) 19:25, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Joseph Vogel really should clarify this. To sum up: The British tabloid press invented the "Wacko Jacko" nickname in the 1980s, and Michael Jackson hated it. Agreed, this has been known for years. Fast forward to September 2012, and Joseph Vogel gives an explanation of the origin of the phrase "Wacko Jacko" that no previous journalist, biographer or Cockney rhyming slang dictionary has ever heard of. Either the man is a genius, or some further explanation of how the information was obtained is required.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:39, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Dont see how the term is racists in anyway. Never heard of the ethnic group's or racial slur's called "Wacko's" or "Jacko's"? That said the term is well published and is something our readers may wish to learn about. Actually surprised its not there already - never noticed it was omitted. Its well published in books, magazines, news (as seen bellow)...and the fact Micheal actually addressed the issues is very interesting Ref = Charles Krinsky (15 December 2008). Moral Panics Over Contemporary Children and Youth. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. p. 112. ISBN 978-0-7546-7465-8.

The refs ....Moxy (talk) 19:04, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

• Johnson Publishing Company (6 October 1997). Jet. Johnson Publishing Company. p. 34. ISSN 0021-5996.
• Karen Z. Taylor (1 February 2003). Letters to Michael Jackson. AuthorHouse. p. 27. ISBN 978-1-4033-8503-1.
• Charles Krinsky (15 December 2008). Moral Panics Over Contemporary Children and Youth. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. p. 112. ISBN 978-0-7546-7465-8.
• Vibe Media Group (February 2005). Vibe. Vibe Media Group. p. 100. ISSN 1070-4701.
• Mary K. Pratt (1 January 2010). Michael Jackson: King of Pop. ABDO. ISBN 978-1-60453-788-8.

When I last read the article (more than a year ago) that “nickname” was mentioned; if it has since been removed I totally agree that it should be reintroduced. Still, I don't think we should mention that new theory of its origin without at the very least attributing it to Mr Vogel. --Six words (talk) 19:14, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

The sentence with the theory on the word's origins would absolutely be attributed to Vogel and The Atlantic article. The problem is that one editor keeps reverting this info and reference. As this editor stated above, he/she is not "interested in the sourcing" simply because he "knows" it to be wrong, never mind that the editor can't produce any sourced info to support this opinion.--SouthernNights (talk) 21:27, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Dont see any point in mentioning any "origins theory" of the term. We just need to explain why its a term used for MJ.Moxy (talk) 21:30, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I have never heard such rubbish in my life before. This is an obvious fabrication by someone who does not even understand cockney rhyming slang. The whole point is that it must rhyme. Well known phrases and celebrity names are linked, but it such a way that you only speak the first word eg. “I am off for a Ruby” RUBY (Murray) = curry … “I am going up the apples” APPLES (and pears) = stairs … “I need a new whistle” WHISTLE (and flute) = suit … “My plates hurt” PLATES (of meat) = feet. … so this man is saying “He looks like a Jacko” (Macacco) = monkey. Utter nonsense and poppycock, a total fabrication that is not even worth dignifying by including it. 21st CENTURY GREENSTUFF 23:24, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, pure, utter garbage. The British tabloids, particularly The Sun, have a long tradition of use of puns, play on words and rhyming phrases. The idea that inspiration for the not especially clever or original "Wacko Jacko" needed to be found in the name of an obscure fighting ape which I doubt anyone at The Sun had even heard of is really bizarre. Rangoon11 (talk) 00:08, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Like Rangoon11, I would doubt that the average Sun journalist or reader knows the phrase "Jacco Macacco", which is not a common UK English phrase. It looks like Joseph Vogel has gone down the time-honoured road of convincing himself that since the words "Jacko" and "Jacco Macacco" sound similar, they must be related. The Snopes website details several similar fallacies and links them to a desire to use etymology to score points about racism. Since Michael Jackson is a Featured Article, it should be wary of giving undue weight to a single source which has only appeared a few days ago.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 01:58, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Inner Michael puts forward this theory, confidently informing the reader that "To call Michael Jackson “Jacko” reveals that you are a racist. Period." What it fails to explain is why no British journalist in thirty years has ever suggested this as the origin of the phrase. This looks like a blog sourced canard which has been picked up and repeated because it tells someone what they want to hear.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 03:47, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

LOL would be best if they understood the term "racist" before throwing it around.Moxy (talk) 19:26, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

LOL sums up this "theory". It seems to have been designed to appeal to Americans whose knowledge of Cockney slang is based on watching Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins. It is worrying to think that if this amazing new factoid is allowed to go into a Featured Article, people will assume that it must be true and start quoting it elsewhere.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:56, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

• I put "Jacko Monkey" into Google images and, along with all of the toys known as Jacko Monkeys, this popped up. "Jacko" and "monkey" appear to go along together to a certain extent in the British mind, and transferring that association to Michael Jackson in a racist manner would appear to be a natural if utterly distasteful consequence. I think the evidence from the Atlantic should be included in the article. Qworty (talk) 04:31, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

The reason why "Jacko" and "monkey" produce search results is that Michael Jackson once had a pet chimp called Bubbles. This is reliably sourced and no great surprise. The worry is that no British journalist or Cockney slang dictionary in thirty years has suggested the origin of the "Wacko Jacko" phrase that Joseph Vogel seems to find so convincing, even though it comes across as bizarre and wrong to a British person.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 05:28, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Wow. Look at this again . Do you mean to say that you honestly can't see immediately how racist this is? On the front-page of a newspaper? Wow, wow. I'm American and you're British and it seems we really are divided by a common language. Just where do you draw the racism line? Everything short of a lynching? I mean no disrespect to you. I am sincerely curious. Qworty (talk) 07:36, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

The story comes from the Sunday Sport, which as the article explains is not a real newspaper and prints obviously spoof stories such as "World War 2 Bomber found on Moon". Part of the problem here is an American perspective on British tabloid newspaper culture. If "Wacko Jacko" was as offensive as some Americans think it is, it would have produced complaints to the Press Council or the Press Complaints Commission which would have been upheld. There do seem to be any cases of this kind. Some UK tabloid newspaper headlines caused huge controversies at the time (GOTCHA and "THE TRUTH" about the Hillsborough disaster both spring to mind) but the phrase "Wacko Jacko" is routine tabloid slang, disrespectful but not racist. The British tabloids have given Madonna the nickname "Madge" which she hates, and she asked "Is it cockney rhyming slang?" (no, it isn't). The UK sense of humour does not always travel well.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:13, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

The Sunday Sport is a wholly separate newspaper, with separate ownership, and even more downmarket and trashy than The Sun (and its staff and readers are even less likely to have ever heard of Jacco Macacco) and it is therefore wholly irrelevant but no I actually can't see why that cover was racist. Jackson had a chimpanzee as a pet and this was well known (the animal even has a WP article). So what? Making comment about that or jokes about it is inherently racist? No it isn't. Rangoon11 (talk) 14:39, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

It is just as well that Freddie Starr is not black, otherwise "FREDDIE STARR ATE MY HAMSTER" could be added to the list of things for Americans to find offensive.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:35, 17 September 2012 (UTC)