Talk:Motion picture content rating system/Archive 2
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 | This is an archive of past discussions about Motion picture content rating system. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Table changes
Adult content vs Adults only
There have been several attempts to convert the "adult content category" to an "adults only category". This is not particularly helpful because "adult content" is a content classification, not just an age restriction and there is often an important legal distinction between the two. For example, the Motion_picture_rating_system#United_Kingdom has two "18" ratings, the standard 18 which is just an age restriction and "R18" which is an "adult content" catgeory. Both are "adults only", but the R18 carries further legal restrictions because of the type of content it classifies. The "blue" category exists to specifically indicate adult content, and altering the description to "adults only" loses the defining aspect of the category. If the category is positioned at age 18/21 in the table then it is obviously "adults only" anyway and we don't need to explain what is obvious to the reader, but it should be clear to the reader that these categories are distinct from other age restricted categories by virtue of the type of content they classify, otherwise there is no point having it. Betty Logan (talk) 15:26, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
Color coding
An anonymous editor has altered the table highlighting as follows:
- Converting the purple "prohibited" catgeories to brown.
- Converting the "adult content" categories to black.
- Converting the "other" column to purple highlighting.
Most of these are long-standing arrangements and I do not feel the aesthetic changes ar in the best interests of the article, especially replacing the purple highlighting with the brown. It is a poor contrast for the red, and someone who is color blind may not be able to distinguish between the two highlights. This category was originally shaded brown but an earlier editor changed it on the grounds that the contrast did not offer enough clarity: . The magenta was too bright for my eyes, but I concurred with the underlying criticism and changed it to purple, which offered a better contrast in my opinion: . All the other colors have been a long-standing feature of the article selected by other editors, and I honestly don't think the changes are an improvement. These are the two versions if anyone else wants to weigh in:
As for the other two changes I think the previous versions are a better aesthetic "fit" for the article. "Blue movies" are highlighted blue accordingly, and I think the black highlighting works better for the "other" column because in most cases this category is not part of the official rating system so it helps it slide into the background a bit. Betty Logan (talk) 22:34, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
- I understand the desire to use black for restricted ratings, but I think the long-standing version is probably better. Having red next to brown can be tough for some people to distinguish. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:16, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
- @NinjaRobotPirate: The entire color scheme is negotiable of course, but obviously whichever scheme is adopted has to be designed to provide sufficient contrast. It would be helpful if it were consistently applied across the whole family of articles too. Beyond that the specific colors themselves are a secondary concern to me. When you say you understand the use of black for the "restricted" ratings, do you mean the "adult content" ratings or the "banned" ratings, and what exactly is the rationale for that? For instance I understand why adult movies are coded blue, and why the general category is green, and the age accompanied category is red etc, but does "black" have a common color association in this capacity or is it just an aesthetic consideriation? Betty Logan (talk) 00:46, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
- Unfortunately the IP has persisted with their changes so I have had no choice but to request protection. In the latest change they also changed the "green" highlighting to limegreen. I have used a contrast checker to check the combinations and this is what they come up with:
Status Color 1 Color 2 Contrast Old Springgreen Green 3.82 New Springgreen Lime 1.57 New Mint Lime 1.89 New Mint Green 1.98 Old Red Purple 2.36 New Red Brown 1.77 New Red Magenta 1.27 Old Blue Purple 1.11 New Black Brown 2.96 New Light gray Gray 2.64 - As we can see not all the changes are bad, but some are. Using lime instead of green reduces the contrast by more than 50%, so this change is obviously a non-starter. We can also see that the existing red/purple combination offers a greater contrast that the new red/brown combination. The worst combination is actually the existing blue/purple combination but the proposed replacement (replacing the blue/purple combo with the black/brown combo) causes problems with the red. Clearly the table would be better served by replacing the blue. I am open to suggestions but the talk page is the place to resolve this, not through constant reverting. Betty Logan (talk) 14:20, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
- The first problem, I think, is that there's nothing wrong with the long-standing scheme. If the IP editor would explain why he/she is making these changes, maybe we'd have something more to discuss. But, yeah, I think it's best to stick to colors that strongly contrast with each other. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:21, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
- I understand the contrast problems that the IP was causing with the color scheme alterations. I think, however I might be wrong, that he/she was just trying to get a smooth merge in color form green to yellow to red to black. Using brown instead of purple allows red to slide in to brown and then to black. I'm not sure why they would put purple in the "Other" column, neither do I know the solution to the "lime instead of green" incident. Now, about the pink in another of these articles, I do not know what they were doing. My understanding of this is that the uses of green to red and black may be reflecting to the uses of "good-bad" uses, as after red they would decide to merge to the black. I hope my little observations are helping you. Although I don't like the contrast problems I actually prefer the new version myself. 220.141.164.205 (talk) 07:25, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
- If you understand and accept the contrast problems caused by the lime and brown then why did you go ahead and install the problematic scheme at Mobile software content rating system? I have reverted back to the previous existing scheme, and I would appreciate it if you refrain from changing it again. If you are not happy with the existing scheme and acknowledge the problems caused by the new one then please propose an alternative high-contrast scheme here that will accommodate the concerns dteailed above. While "smooth" transitions may be aesthtically attractive, Wikipedia is not an art project and the primary goal is to provide information and make it as accessible as possible. Betty Logan (talk) 08:32, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
- I understand the contrast problems that the IP was causing with the color scheme alterations. I think, however I might be wrong, that he/she was just trying to get a smooth merge in color form green to yellow to red to black. Using brown instead of purple allows red to slide in to brown and then to black. I'm not sure why they would put purple in the "Other" column, neither do I know the solution to the "lime instead of green" incident. Now, about the pink in another of these articles, I do not know what they were doing. My understanding of this is that the uses of green to red and black may be reflecting to the uses of "good-bad" uses, as after red they would decide to merge to the black. I hope my little observations are helping you. Although I don't like the contrast problems I actually prefer the new version myself. 220.141.164.205 (talk) 07:25, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
- The first problem, I think, is that there's nothing wrong with the long-standing scheme. If the IP editor would explain why he/she is making these changes, maybe we'd have something more to discuss. But, yeah, I think it's best to stick to colors that strongly contrast with each other. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:21, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
- I actually like 126.155.0.231's idea about the whole color merge thing. The only thing I don't like about it is that they changed green to lime, as Betty Logan said, that reduced the contrasting by more than fifty percent. And the pink on the video game rating system... may be a bit of contrast improvement? I don't know what you think about it, but I kinda like his/her idea of this color merge smoothly idea. Think you can help me? SlitherioFan2016 (talk) 10:21, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
- There are plenty of options available in regards to color schemes, but providing contrast is the priority. If you have any suggestions then please propose them here so we can assess their suitability. Furthermore, if any of the other comments posted at this discussion under IP numbers are yours then please declare which ones are yours, because creating the illusion of multiple editors in a discussion to support a particular stance is WP:SOCKPUPPETRY. Betty Logan (talk) 20:55, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
- None of them are mine. SlitherioFan2016 (talk) 01:07, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
- There are plenty of options available in regards to color schemes, but providing contrast is the priority. If you have any suggestions then please propose them here so we can assess their suitability. Furthermore, if any of the other comments posted at this discussion under IP numbers are yours then please declare which ones are yours, because creating the illusion of multiple editors in a discussion to support a particular stance is WP:SOCKPUPPETRY. Betty Logan (talk) 20:55, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
- There is a site at http://colorbrewer2.org which produces color schemes for maps. You can set it to produce a color scheme that is also suitable for color blind people. A sequential color scheme would probably be a good choice here such as a red based scheme here or alternatively this yellow-orange-red based one, and we could retain the grey/black scheme for the "other" column. I think that is way to go if the color scheme is to be overhauled. Betty Logan (talk) 21:52, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
- @Betty Logan: Which color contrast checker have you been using? SlitherioFan2016 (talk) 10:11, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- It has come to my attention that the rating system articles in other languages are using the problematic color scheme in the comparison tables. I'm pretty sure 126.155.0.231 noticed this and edited the English table to make it the same as the others, for consistency sake. I hope my little observations are helping you. Even though I do spend a lot of time at content ratings articles I am still trying to figure out what they actually did myself. SlitherioFan2016 (talk) 07:58, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
- There is no consistency across the different language articles. For example, the German edition doesn't even have a table. Meanwhile the Spanish edition uses black in place of purple (but has no "other" column which is where we use our black tone) and retains the blue for pornographic films, as this article does; it also uses lime instead of green which is perfectly fine in the Spanish version because they don't have a two-green tone meaning they can select any version of green and there won't be a contrast problem. Obviously if a foreign language version has a good color scheme then we can may be able to adapt here, but ultimately we are not beholden to what the foreign language Wikipedias do. Betty Logan (talk) 02:54, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
- That's the thing. I kinda like the Spanish edition of the color scheme, however what can we put in the Other column? Maybe 126.155.0.231 just needed to replace spring green with mint, then everything would be fine? Maybe spring green just needed to be reconsidered, or else I might reconsider his/her benefits rather than problems. Using the black/brown combination with the contrast of 2.96 got rid of the blue/purple combination with the 1.11 contrast. The problems with the red caused by that then - either way, there's got to be positive and negative aspects of everything. Focussing on the negative (a la contrasting) does not always work (think to the 1.11 in the long-standing version). What I would do is just take some consideration into the positive aspects, rather than through constant reverting. SlitherioFan2016 (talk) 03:37, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
- If you are going to have two greens they need a strong contrast, so two light greens or two dark greens simply doesn't work. If you want the lime in the table then it would need to replace the other "light" green i.e. the spring green. And as I said before the black/brown combination simply isn't a suitable replacement because the brown has low contrast with the red. There is no point replacing a contrast problem with another contrast problem. The only color which *needs* to be replaced is either the purple or the blue to eliminate the purple/blue problem, but not with a color (such as brown) which causes a contrast problem with the red. I suppose we could replace the purple with black like in the Spanish color scheme, and replace the black with dark grey (see above table) in the "other" column (since the "other" column isn't for proper ratings so I don't think it should have a proper highlight). Betty Logan (talk) 04:10, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
- I don't want two greens! I want lime and mint! SlitherioFan2016 (talk) 07:34, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
- Mint is a shade of spring green as you can see at Spring green#Mint, but as you can see above it provides poor contrast with both lime and green, so mint is a non-starter I'm afraid. Betty Logan (talk) 08:02, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
- I don't want two greens! I want lime and mint! SlitherioFan2016 (talk) 07:34, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
- If you are going to have two greens they need a strong contrast, so two light greens or two dark greens simply doesn't work. If you want the lime in the table then it would need to replace the other "light" green i.e. the spring green. And as I said before the black/brown combination simply isn't a suitable replacement because the brown has low contrast with the red. There is no point replacing a contrast problem with another contrast problem. The only color which *needs* to be replaced is either the purple or the blue to eliminate the purple/blue problem, but not with a color (such as brown) which causes a contrast problem with the red. I suppose we could replace the purple with black like in the Spanish color scheme, and replace the black with dark grey (see above table) in the "other" column (since the "other" column isn't for proper ratings so I don't think it should have a proper highlight). Betty Logan (talk) 04:10, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
- That's the thing. I kinda like the Spanish edition of the color scheme, however what can we put in the Other column? Maybe 126.155.0.231 just needed to replace spring green with mint, then everything would be fine? Maybe spring green just needed to be reconsidered, or else I might reconsider his/her benefits rather than problems. Using the black/brown combination with the contrast of 2.96 got rid of the blue/purple combination with the 1.11 contrast. The problems with the red caused by that then - either way, there's got to be positive and negative aspects of everything. Focussing on the negative (a la contrasting) does not always work (think to the 1.11 in the long-standing version). What I would do is just take some consideration into the positive aspects, rather than through constant reverting. SlitherioFan2016 (talk) 03:37, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
- There is no consistency across the different language articles. For example, the German edition doesn't even have a table. Meanwhile the Spanish edition uses black in place of purple (but has no "other" column which is where we use our black tone) and retains the blue for pornographic films, as this article does; it also uses lime instead of green which is perfectly fine in the Spanish version because they don't have a two-green tone meaning they can select any version of green and there won't be a contrast problem. Obviously if a foreign language version has a good color scheme then we can may be able to adapt here, but ultimately we are not beholden to what the foreign language Wikipedias do. Betty Logan (talk) 02:54, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
- Comment The color blind scheme at Category:Articles with images not understandable by color blind users has been brought to my attention since this discussion. I have installed the scheme by merging the children/general categories and the Prohibited/Adult content categories. In both cases there was only a semantic difference since both categories imposed no restriction at all or a hard age restriction. Feel free to change the colors but please make sure they are consistent with color schemes suggested at Category:Articles with images not understandable by color blind users. Thankyou for your co-operation. Betty Logan (talk) 02:39, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
- Proposal The color scheme in the Spanish version of the motion picture rating article has come to my attention since I voted in the survey below. I have proposed use for it and have installed it in the table, but have not removed the warning message because I would like to open it up for discussion rather than reverting to the one that is in discussion now. Feel free to notify me if you have questions or comments about the scheme. SlitherioFan2016 (talk) 06:08, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
- COMMENT It has been brought to my attention that other content ratings articles are using the 8-color scheme that poses WP:ACCESSIBILITY issues for the colorblind ones. Should we fix the issue, or should we just leave it as it is for now? SlitherioFan2016 (talk • contribs) 05:42, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
RfC: Should we install a color scheme with 8 colors in the comparison table?
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the comparison table in articles such as Motion picture rating system use a color scheme with 8 colors that has improved contrast than the previous two? Here are the two options if anyone wants to weigh in:
Please indicate your preference below. SlitherioFan2016 (talk • contribs) 06:13, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
Survey
- Option B – While it is possible to make a color scheme have high levels of color contrast, we also do not want to lose any information. Take for example the child category and the general category. The child category is assigned to material intended specifically for children. On the other hand the general category is suitable for all ages, however the material inside it may not be of interest, or, is not necessarily intended for, children. Same thing goes for the restrictive age category and the pornographic category. Some adults don't like pornographic content. If they see a "black" rating, it is an age restrictive category, but the rating may be of pornographic content. And, again, while Option A is specifically designed to be accessibility contrastive it is possible to make an 8-color scheme as accessible as possible. SlitherioFan2016 (talk • contribs) 06:13, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
- COMMENT – This is the third RFC in 48 hours and SlitherioFan2016 is abusing the RFC system. The first RFC finished 48 hours ago after running for a month, and after not getting the answer he wanted he has refused to accept the outcome and started another RFC straightaway. The second RFC was closed after an admin asked him to close it, and within 24 hours we have yet another RFC. There is a case filed at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Propose_topic_ban_for_SlitherioFan2016 to discuss his conduct and your comments would perhaps be better served there. Betty Logan (talk) 06:28, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Semi-protected edit request on 10 December 2016
 | This edit request to Motion picture content rating system has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
173.228.205.51 (talk) 14:56, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 15:22, 10 December 2016 (UTC).
