Talk:Mouse/Archive 1

According to WIkipedia naming conventions, the page is supposed to be named for the most common thing that the word reference. I came here looking for a computer mouse. Given the prevalence of the internet and computers today, I'd say its at least as likely that someone is looking for computer mouse when they come to this page, therefore I think we should either redirect directly to mouse or a disambiguation page with both on it.

This suggestion has been here a while and I see no objections so why don't we carry it out?

I disagree; I think people looking up "mouse" in an encyclopedia are more likely to expect to see an article about the animal, so I think the disambiguation line at the top is plenty. That's just my intuition, though. --Allen 04:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. People looking for a computer mouse will expect to get the animal. --Aranae 17:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Great -- can someone carry this out? I don't know how

When I hear of mice I think of cheese. Drutt 22:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

that is because you live on a very unhealthy diet of stereotypes.

124.197.50.143 20:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

HERE, HERE!!! i totally agree with u

--> It's "hear hear yap yap yap".

I came here to look for the real mouse and its genology. So there is no issue per se. However A clarification / direction element could be added to point people to computer mice and other topics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.62.61.43 (talk) 07:57, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Given the popularity of computers and the internet these days, I would tend to think that the computer mouse is the more looked for term. One person can't just come along and say "oh I was looking for a mouse so there's no issue". What about just landing on the disambiguation page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.160.142.3 (talk) 08:09, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

The new front picture for the mouse is soo cute! Mice (or Mouse's) were once believed to be the most intellegent form of life in the universe. The technology the possesed would shame our own. They travelled on the back of great beasts called 'cats'. They may have possibly hunted the noble mole rat, allthough historical records from this time are vauge. The leader of the mouse's (or mice) was a great mice (or mouse) called Gerreld. He wore a cardigan and through the technological miracle of 'musical time displacemnt' decided to sacrifice any that liked 'Lady in Red' by Chris Du Burggggg(sic).

Well, according to some users on the talk page of the Velociraptor, they have a pretty big brain-body ratio.

The Western House Mouse, Mus domesticus, from Western Europe, the Americas, Africa and the Pacific has now been considered a species separate from the Eastern House Mouse from eastern Europe and Asia (see Mitchell-Jones et al. (1999), The Atlas of European Mammals.

With as fast as murines speciate these two forms probably do represent phylogenetic species. I know some good genetic work regarding that has come out of the Suzuki lab and others lately. I don't know what the conclusions have been regarding this. The M. domesticus issue has gone back and forth. I think a number of people are hesitant to be the one to make the change considering how many research labs would have to start changing what they call these. I'd suggest waiting the few months to see what Musser and Carleton say in the new Wilson and Reeder Mammal Species of the World before we change things. --Aranae 09:21, 14 March 2005 (UTC)

They're pretty smart, all right. Dora Nichov 03:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Here are some simple questions I would expect to be covered by an encyclopedia.

1. Their maximum length and weight (wild specimens).

HB: 45-125 mm, TL: 28- about 130 mm, WT: 2.5- >34 g (Novak, 1999). Size varies considerably by species. --Aranae 20:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

2. Type of family grouping or parental care that can be observed.

3. Natural habitat.

forests, savannahs, grasslands, rocky habitat (Novak, 2005). In Africa they tend to particularly like forest edge, derived savannah, and of course agricultural areas. --Aranae 20:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

4. Pathogens and parasites carried.

5. Accurate identification of important species, such as a comparison of ear shapes, colours, droppings, scent, sounds, &c.

Cranial characters, size of certain features, aspects of tooth morphology. Measurements combined with geography are the principal way of getting there. --Aranae 20:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

6. Common examples of property damage.

7. Coverage of their hibernation and nesting practices.

M. minutoides nests in shallow burrows. M. caroli and M. cervicolor burrow. M. shortridgei and M. pahari nest aboveground. Most species will construct nests of grass, fibers, and shredded material. (Novak, 1997) --Aranae 20:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

All in all, the current article is disappointing.

--I second the request for Coverage of their hibernation and nesting practices. How do mice survive subzero winters? Do they group together like snakes? Thanks. --Demonesque 19:18, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I've added in a few answers to these questions. The answers are exclusively for Mus. Perhaps the info can be integrated. --Aranae 20:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

They don't hibernate. They can also survive in any virtually habitat. Dora Nichov 03:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

8. Natural foods, 'Nutrition' section is on how to feed domestic or lab mice. --Nate1481(^t/_c) 17:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

The song of the deer mouse is a great external link, but is more appropriate at Peromyscus and has been moved there. This page deals primarily with Mus and a few other Old World mice. --Aranae 16:40, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

sometimes new-born mice are called pinkies... see if [] deserves to be incorporated in the article --Melaen 17:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

This debate is far from resolved, see Talk:Vole, Talk:Hamster, Talk:Guinea pig, Talk:Capybara, Talk:Kangaroo mouse, Chipmunk, and Rat. I would argue that the mice in fiction section is among the best example of a "[rodent] in fiction" section. --Aranae 22:27, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Resolved, eh? Okay, I won't pursue it.  Run!  22:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Where are Mickey Mouse, Minnie, Ratatouille (from Disney and Pixar movies) and Jerry Mouse from the Tom and Jerry cartoons? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.196.80.60 (talk) 03:07, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Do mice really eat cheese? Where did this belief come from?

Yup, they eat cheese! But it isn't usually the main component of their diet. Justforasecond 00:28, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Not always, I had a slight mouse problem a couple of weeks ago and I just found what they were snacking on: the cheese pouches from my Easy Mac stash! -Dandaman32 19:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I thought cheese poisoned them, actually.

They eat cheese, but it's not really their favorite food. They like seeds more. But they'll eat anything, even soap and candles. Dora Nichov 03:37, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

They really like sweets. Marcipan makes a much better mouse trap bait than cheese. --Klausok 10:41, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I find peanut butter to be a very, very efficent bait for my trap. my trap is a wire box with a metal floor, The bait is placed on the metal floor, The mouse climbs in through a hole at the top, and once in the trap cannot escape.

I work for a pest controll cmpany and the favorite food of mice is bird seed. Dec 21,2007 (Nick S)

Lol when i bait a mouse trap i make it long complicated and completely waste of space its fun to make i get a meat cleaver tie it to a cucumber slice then when the mouse eats it a rock sitting on top of the slice as a counterweight falls off making the meat cleaver fall and cut the mouse in half then my cats eat it. XD 74.84.9.226 (talk) 13:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

That's pretty twisted. I use Bird Seeds as mentioned above. It's really the only thing that will get them out of their holes. -Enrgy 16:35, 29 December 2008

74.84.9.226 makes a lot of vandalism, I don't think he was being serious. 71.161.48.175 (talk) 03:29, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I just finished explaining to my kids that mice don't really love cheese. But then this article said they do. They don't, do they? :-) I took it out, unless someone has a ref to the contrary.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Asbruckman (talk • contribs) 22:58, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Mus musculus species do like Emmentaler like cheese (used to trap them in country houses !), but other field species maybe dont. --Salixen (talk) 01:49, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Hazelnut-choclate-cream did the trick with the first few. I try raw peanuts and hamster food now. To no avail as of now. They generally like dry foods, dried fruits and even edible oil. Never tried fresh fruit though. What kind of bird seed did you use? --Jangirke (talk) 21:26, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Where does mice live?Underground?

I think mice live in your house--Taida 00:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Anywhere they can make a living. As long as it's comfortable and dark, it should be fine for them. Dora Nichov 03:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

They've lived in apartments I've lived in. I'm surprised this article doesn't mention human environments and adaptability. --Oakshade 06:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Mice will live in ur house, apts, vehicles, etc. They like insulation and papper products for nesting. They will live underground usualy near a heat source if possible. Dec 21,2007 (Nick S)

Hello ; we have found that peanut butter and pumpkin seeds are very efficient for catching mice, our home has been infested with mice since its been getting colder; any suggestions on other food sources i can use to catch mice ??. thanx.

I've just reverted the following addition (in bold) to the Knockout mice section:

Knockout mice are mice which have had a specific gene or genes inactivated, either through deletion or disruption of the portion of the genome containing the gene in question. This enables the study of the function of that gene and more rare bloodtypes (that can react with respiratory failures in smaller species of the common melifialicous house "mice") and genes interacting with it.

If anyone can figure out what that's supposed to mean, feel free to clarify and restore it. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 22:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

The bedding discussion about corn cob bedding is confusing. -65.217.42.131 10:17, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

What is the difference between mouse and rat in biology? How to tell the difference by looking? -65.217.42.131 10:17, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Have you visited our Rat page? They are different species (sort of like the difference between a horse and a zebra). - However, they are close enough together, and "confusable" enough, that a section/page on the difference between mice and rats might be a good idea. -- 20:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC) (P.S. I split your question into separate topics.)

Are there any legal issues with feeding live mice to snakes and reptiles? Drutt 21:37, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, it's unclear if the exceptions to the "don't feed live vertebrates to carnivores" rule's exception for snakes is an exception to the general principal only, or German law as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.175.49.68 (talk) 03:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I am German, I have read the law and it is not outlawed here to feed live mice at all. It is outlawed however "to expose animals to unnecessary cruelty." Cruelty doesn't include perfectly natural processes (such as carnivores eating their natural prey). What is meant here is for example to neglect mice and let them bite each other to death, or to let them starve, or to experiment on them with knifes or something. However, there are much tighter regulations for commercial usage of animals (pet stores, zoos), to ensure their wellbeing. This is all written down in the Tierschutzgesetz (animal protection law) and no other law exists. For reference: in Austria, feeding live animals (mammals) is explicitly outlawed. Please change the article accordingly. 109.91.32.90 (talk) 23:40, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

This doesnt seem to make much sense- "The RSPCA also claimed it was bad for the predator to eat alive mice as they contain too much fat which can cause the predator diseases. So the citizens of the UK must feed their animal with frozen mice and rats." How would killing and freezing the mouse or rat make any difference to it's fat content? I've done some searching on Google and found references to vitamin and mineral loss, but nothing suggesting any change in fat content caused by freezing. 92.251.255.18 (talk) 12:50, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Currently the article states: "These species of mice live commensally with humans." (referring to both house and deer mice); however it is possible to take issue with this stance because often deer mice are known to carry the Hantavirus which can prove fatal to humans, which goes against the definition of a commensal relationship with humans. For example,

Excerpt: In Washington State , the deer mouse (Peromyscus maniculatus) is the main carrier of hantavirus. About 1- 5 hantavirus cases are reported each year in Washington State and about one third of the cases have been fatal.

I think the Wiki should not necessarily infer that mice are harmless. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.49.57.137 (talk) 15:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

I had a mouse in my house, It left black droppings everywhere, uranated in two bags of puffed rice cerial, nibbled tomatoes, bread, and other fruit, and ended up in trasparent container as a "television" for the cats, rushing around the trap as the cats watched it, chased it, clawed at it, and sat on it's wire box. This is not a commensual relationship.

Well, a neighbor's dog can be a similar nuissance. But that doesn't matter :) The relation is commensalism because generally speaking, we don't eat mice, they don't eat us. They really don't compete for food from us either. Most live outside, and the few that don't... I mean come on, it's a small rodent. It would take years for a mouse to eat you out of house and home. Whether you like sharing food with them is another matter :)

Re: hantavirus, that should be in the hantavirus article. Saying that mice are carriers of viruses is kinda like saying people are carriers of AIDS. That does not make mice inherently more harmful to humans. 72.193.219.212

Re: "It will take years for mice to eat u out of house and home", not always true, dont forget that u can have a large amount of mice living in ur home, in that case they can eat u out of house and home. I have been to homes where the problem is reallly bad and have seen that happen. Anything is possible if given a chance. Dec 21,2007 (Nick S) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.108.210 (talk) 21:06, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: by that way of thinking, there's no commensal relationships anywhere, since everything can become a problem if you overdo it. The fact is animals like mice, ants, and crickets cohabit just fine with humans. Commensalism As long as they stay in the house exterior, we generally do not compete for the same food source or prey on each other. Sure, sometimes the animals will come inside and eat your food; but we all know what happens to those. The vast majority of these animals however live off scraps and crumbs, garbage, and other throw-away food they can find outside. Also in some ways they are actually living in Mutualism, since these animals occupy the same function that benign bacteria does in your body. That is to say, they prevent invasion by organisms which are truly parasitic and harmful.

I like how the article has made mice more sinister since last I was here >:) (fyi: everything can be a carrier of disease) And yet the article is missing the most basic information: evolutionary history of mice, their physical attributes, various habitats, etc. 72.193.179.126 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:35, 26 September 2010 (UTC).

Does this really belong in its own headline, let alone the second headline of the article? It seems somewhat obscure. Brianga 04:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed; remove or kick to the bottom. I read it three times and still can't make snout or tail out of it. 81.240.94.152 22:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

• I went ahead and removed it. It seems like its already covered in Estrogen receptor anyway. Brianga 06:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

It'd be nice when removing whole sections that you 1) check to see that the most recent edits aren't vandalism and undo them if they are, 2) put an edit comment explaining what you are doing so it doesn't look like random blanking and 3) remove the correct section and not the laboratory mice section. I reverted the vandalism and the blanking of two sections, but if there's actually discussion to get rid of the one, OK, fine, no harm done, but a little more care in editing would prevent this kind of confusion. DreamGuy 08:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I heard from a source (my mother, of asian descent) that mice/rats may be able to recognise your speech. Which is why she refers to them by the Chinese word, or by saying: that small thing with four legs. I forget why she is so afraid of them knowing of our knowledge of their presence.

But is their any proof at all they could do this, or is this completely false?

ANOTHER USER: it is false, mice will not know when you are referring to them, just another tall tale

Scientists controlled a mouse with voice commands. Jecowa 21:30, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Mice of course will not understand words unless specifically trained to do so. For instance, pet mice can come when called and do other simple commands, but unless they are taught these words, they will only hear them as a string of sounds, much like dogs have no idea what you're saying unless you teach them. La Bicyclette 05:23, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I removed this tag, as the talk page does not contain any relevant discussion about the article contradicting itself. If the alleged contradiction is the issue of the mouse's commensal relationship with humans, then there's no argument until someone comes up with a citation that explains how occasionally acting as a disease vector (a large number of mammals do, and so do other humans) or eating minuscule amounts of our food constitutes some other type of relationship. Unigolyn 11:06, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I've uploaded a much better picture of baby mice just a day old, it's my own picture and it's much clearer then the one already there. I don't know how to link, but it's called Babymice2. I can't edit the page even though I'm logged in, so if someone else would change it, that'd be great :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ShwSie (talk • contribs) 11:15, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Really, the whole first sentence seems anomalous. Is there a reason to include it?CarlFink 11:51, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

It was a really stupid act of vandalism that has been reverted. If a vandal was trying to do something funny, they failed. Midtempo-abg 14:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'm not a biologist, but surely the mouse should be considered higher than "low importance". This assessment was not applied by a member of the project. Could a project member perhaps re-assess this. Thanks, Walkerma (talk) 06:35, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I would also like to see a member of the project re- @#!*% the consideration that the mouse is of “low importance.” --DavidD4scnrt (talk) 08:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

We like to hike on a popular trail around a local lake in Washington State. The other day we went there to hike and when we got about 3/4 the way around the lake we began to see several dead mice along about 1/4 mile stretch of the trail. I talked to a friend of mine who does a lot of hiking and hikes that particular trail everyday. She said that she had been sweeping them off the trail for the last couple of days. She also said that she had noticed that on other trails as well and that it seemed to only happen at certain times of the year. Is there a reason for this mass death? Is there something poisonous that they may be feeding on that only grows at certain times of the year? I know mice are related to lemmings but I read that the mass suicide legend is just a myth. Any ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ktgyrl (talk • contribs) 16:54, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I also do. I recently got 2 female mice, and they are both(Pepper & Salt) looking pregnant. Pepper is bigger, and very lazy compared to Salt. Pepper is also extremely sensitive to her Uterus/Stomach area, while Salt is not. I've been searching the internet for "Signs of Pregnancy in Mice", and this is closest. I still don't know. Pepper squeaks only when I touch her belly, so I believe the group she was in, a mouse was sexed wrong, and thrown in with the female group. Are those natural signs? Are they signs of pregnancy? Please if you can, tell me! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.150.23 (talk) 18:56, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

for the mass deaths, do you live in a city? or are there homes nearby? while it could be anything really, my first thought is that these mice forage for food in nearby dwellings that are using pesticides. another thought is that your township sprays for mosquitoes and other pests on a regular basis and this might be killing the mice as well. of course it could be organic, if a non-native species of plant was recently introduced.

in regards to pregnancy, gestation is about 20 days, so you'll know for sure by mid-august. If you'd like to be really sure you can always go to the vet, but it isn't always clearcut. Petstores often accidentally mix-up and you wouldn't be the first person who got a little bonus. --ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 02:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow was that some bad writing. And there totally dosn't need to be two sections. Pare, consolidate, done.

ZoundsPadang (talk) 23:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC) zoundsPadang

There is too much usage of the word "you" in the "Mice as Pets" section. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, not a mice care tutorial, so it shouldn't act as if the section was talking to you. I would apreciate if somebody fixed this. Thank you. Thegargoylevine (talk) 23:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh lighten up XD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.84.9.226 (talk) 13:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Thegargoylevine and would encourage anyone who wants to to bring the section up to wikipedia standards. --Aranae (talk) 15:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Please note that the page is about the genus Mus but the image is an Apodemus sylvaticus. Doloco (talk) 19:45, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

The article states that the young of mice are called pups. As far as I know they are called kittens. Mjroots (talk) 20:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Discussion of colours would be more appropriate under a new section varieties for the article fancy mouse. Also, references need more than just (name, year). Finally, the genetic info given is a) mostly wrong and b) unnecessary for a mouse article- if any terms are necessary to mention, it is better to link them to the actual genetic articles.

I'm not going to go through this passage point by point, just going to give a few examples of the many problematic claims: There are more known genes that affect mouse fur color traits than any other trait in mice. are out of date and incorrect (a quick search of the mouse phenotype database at JaxLabs gives 600 pigment genes and for example, 2752 for nervous system ones.

Eye color genes are usually related to the fur color genes and are therefore called linked genes. This is not what a linked gene is!

it is rare to find full color mice with pink eyes or white mice with black eyes. Its quite common and easy to do. A black eyed mouse can be created with excessive spotting, or with the extreme dilute allele split with albino, or combining red(yellow) and chinchilla mutations; many mouse varieties have pink eyes but are not white- such as pink eyed red/yellow/gold, argente, dove, and silver!

--6th Happiness (talk) 05:12, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Any substantiation? Does this include pup mortality? I would think that many of young pups die, which would lower the average life span. Four months is an adult mouse. That would imply that on average a mouse lives to be an adult and can breed. -- Bubbachuck (talk) 20:15, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

This is a notice to inform interested editors of a new WikiProject being proposed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Rodents --ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 02:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

"The American white-footed mouse (Peromyscus leucopus) and the deer mouse (Peromyscus maniculatus) also sometimes live in houses."

These mice are both members of the Cricetidae family not Muridae and thus inappropriate for an article about Muridae mice.

-- 72.204.3.74 (talk) 19:06, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Could do with some clean-up and reduction of slightly huffy language (specifically on 'citizens of the UK' not being allowed to feed live mice to carnivores). I would, but the article's semi-protected. 86.144.144.110 (talk) 19:43, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I just had a go at it. I cut back quite a bit; it could use a little prudent well-worded re-expansion but at least it reads much more like an encyclopedia now. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 17:06, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

That's so cruel how they feed live baby mice to stupid reptiles. I saw a video of a guy who fed a pinkie to his @#!*% iguana and it was still alive come time to it going down the throat. Why can't people just stick to feeding their caged pets insects or vegetibles? Could you imagine being a pinkie fed to a tarantuala? Abandon by your parents and left to be eaten by that eight legged fugly monster!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alieneater1239 (talk • contribs) 16:12, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the last statment here. It is very true that is cruel. Same with grown mice, pinkey rats, and grown rats. It is totaly wrong! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.174.13.150 (talk) 03:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

This page is to discuss edits, not whine about mouse ethics. Salaxoraxas (talk) 00:18, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of edits, 'citing ethical concerns regarding both predator and prey.' could be said more clearly, because it almost makes it sound as if the predator itself has an ethical concern. Of course, the predator doesn't particularly care about our ethics. 58.179.3.102 (talk) 23:21, 11 December 2014 (UTC)