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Talk:Papa (2024 film)/GA1

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GA review

Passed. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 19:00, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Prince of Erebor (talk · contribs) 08:08, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: LastJabberwocky (talk · contribs) 10:52, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

Hi, I'm hopefully ready to make a coherent review. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 10:52, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

Hi LastJabberwocky! Thank you so much for reviewing Jason Kwan last year and for taking on this review that has been pending at GAN for a while! —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 17:15, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
Thank you for being thorough! I have no further comments, proming to GA —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 18:59, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
  • all green with copyright levels checkY
  • All images have rationale (mostly uploaded by photographers themselves). checkY
  • All references are full and even have translated titles. checkY
  • As a side quest you can add alttext for image accessibility but that's not a GA requirement as far as i can tell

Infobox and lead

  • Should we credit Philip Yung as a co-director as he is credited at the end of the film?
    • I believe you mean Au Cheuk-man here? I have been considering this for some time too and I am not really sure. Because 1. Au's credit is specifically "Co-director", not "Director", which does not seem to fit in the infobox. 2. Since the film's production and most awards (except the Hong Kong Film Awards) recognize Philip Yung as the sole director, I think we should follow the majority's choice as this will likely be the mainstream view reflected in current and future reliable sources. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 17:15, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
      • Fair enough! The note gives enough context for readers to decide for themselves.
  • Consider listing budget in the infobox

Plot

  • Nin returns to his cha chaan teng in a morning, only to find his colleagues and neighbours looking at him strangely, revealing that his son Ming has murdered his wife Yin and daughter Grace, and turned himself in to the police the night before. ----> Nin clocks in for the morning shift at his cha chaan teng, a Hong Kong restaurant he owns, noticing strange looks from his colleagues and neighbours, who reveal that his son Ming has murdered his wife Yin and daughter Grace, and subsequently turned himself in to the police. Note: I probably should (and plan to watch Papa), so forgive my misinterpretations. I'm focused mostly on flow and clarity, working with the words i see :).
    •  Done I think your suggested rephrase aligns well with the film. (But I highly recommend watching Papa, it is a very good film.) —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 17:15, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
    • Neighbours looked at him strangely before on his way to the restaurant? Or these neighbours are restaurant customers?
    • In the film's settings (and in reality, which will be mentioned in the Background subsection below), Nin actually lived in an apartment across from his restaurant on the same street. So I guess it is fair to say that neighbours looked at him strangely as he walked to the restaurant, but in fact, it is really just him crossing the street while everyone around him (neighbours, other restaurant owners, and customers) watches him. I am out of ideas on how to rewrite this more smoothly. Do you have any suggestions? —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 17:15, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
      • Maybe something like this: Nin starts a usual work day at his cha chaan teng, a Hong Kong restaurant he owns, interrupted by the revelations delivered by his colleagues and neighbours that his son Ming has murdered
  • One night, Nin has dinner with his mother and his sister's family. He lies to his mother, saying that his wife and children are busy, but she reveals that she has known what happened all along. ----> One night, Nin has dinner with his mother and his sister's family, where he lies about his family to his mother, saying that they are busy, but his mother reveals that she has known what happened all along.
  • but Ming refuses with various excuses. ---> This one is vague. I would either expand it with examples of excuses (if they are important) or remove 'with various excuses'
    • I think I will remove it because Ming simply raises a bunch of trivial points just to refuse Nin and they are not important to the storyline at all. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 17:46, 15 January 2026 (UTC)
  • despite Ming's objections about limiting the animal's freedom. ---> despite Ming's objections toward limiting the animal's freedom.  ?
  • leave Ming to take care of it. ---> leave Ming to take care for it.
  • During summer, Ming works at Nin's restaurant, and he clashes with Nin when he refuses to use the packing method his father's staff taught him and results in a mess. ----> During summer, Ming works at Nin's restaurant clashing with Nin when he refuses to use the packing method his father's staff taught him and causes a mess.
  • doesn't want ---- does not want per WP:Contraction
  • In 2013, Ming has been locked in the psychiatric hospital for four years, but his request for early release is denied, even though Nin expresses his willingness to care for Ming full-time now that he is retired and wishes to reunite with his son. ---> By 2013 Ming has been locked in the psychiatric hospital for four years. His request for early release is denied, even though Nin wishes to reunite with his son and expresses his willingness to care for Ming full-time now that he is retired.

Production

  • murdered his mother Lam Lin-kam and his younger sister Kan Chung-yue at home, before turning himself in to the police after wandering the streets for a short period. ---> murdered his mother Lam Lin-kam and his younger sister Kan Chung-yue at home, before turning himself in to the police. Note: The detail about him wandering a little bit doesn't sound important?
    • @LastJabberwocky: I prefer to keep this part, as both in reality and in the film, the boy wandered from his home all the way to Riviera Park before calling the police and turning himself in. This sequence was mentioned in the plot summary and later in the filming section, where there is considerable discussion about the decision to return to Riviera Park and shoot this particular wandering sequence on location. So I wanted to emphasize that it is based on real-life events. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 22:02, 17 January 2026 (UTC)
  • suffered from auditory hallucinations during the murder, hearing voices that told him the world was overpopulated, wasting resources and harming the environment, and that he had a mission to eliminate part of the population. ---> suffered from auditory hallucinations during the murder, hearing voices that told him: the world was overpopulated, wasting resources and harming the environment, and he had a mission to eliminate part of the population. Note: I'm thinking this sentence is slightly cluttered, but cannot figure out the best solution. Another solution merging two ideas into: 'hearing voices that told him to eliminate part of the population on a mission to solve the problem of overpopulation, resources waste and harm to environment
    • Yea I agree that the original sentence seems bloated. Merging them sounds better.  Done —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 22:02, 17 January 2026 (UTC)
  • Before Papa's release, Kan Ka-leung's mental condition had improved after years of therapy and he was released from detainment ---> Before Papa's release, Kan Ka-leung's mental condition had improved following years of therapy, and he was released from detainment.}}
  • Kan Fuk-kui had also sold the restaurant ---> Kan Fuk-kui had sold the restaurant
  • Yung described Kan was initially defensive and reluctant ---> Yung felt that Kan initially was defensive and reluctant
  • He initially planned to adapt the murder into a true crime film ---> Originally, Yung planned to adapt the murder into a true crime film
  • and was willing to listen to his inner thoughts ----> and was willing to listen to Kan's inner thoughts
  • and the subtle emotions between family members' interactions. ---> and the subtle emotions translated through family members' interactions.
  • to work on a Hong Kong-Chinese film cannot find this part in the inline source
    • In the fifth paragraph: "後來該導演北上發展拍合拍片" (The director went to mainland China to develop a co-production film.) —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 22:02, 17 January 2026 (UTC)
  • learned Hakka language for three days from Yung's relative
  • despite Lau's diverse roles, he had seldom been cast in more artistically nuanced performances ----> despite Lau's diverse roles, he rarely had been cast in more artistically nuanced performances
  • and he aimed to set a precedent for young filmmakers
  • for Lau, who does not know how to cook, ---> for Lau, who did not know how to cook,
  • So did not try to imitate a mentally disordered person or a murderer, and he instead drew on his own experiences with his parents during puberty while acting. ---> While acting, So did not try to imitate a mentally disordered person or a murderer, and he instead drew on his own experiences with his parents during puberty.
  • Lau tried to collaborate with So and another child actress ----> Lau tried to direct So and another child actress  ?
    • I am not sure. I think "collaborate" is the right word since they are co-stars? —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 22:02, 17 January 2026 (UTC)
      • My thinking was: he tried to provide creative freedom not tried to collaborate. Consider moving 'trying' in front of providing room for creative freedom
        • @LastJabberwocky: So perhaps: "Lau tried to provide them room for creative freedom while collaborating with So and another child actress Lainey Hung (who played the daughter Grace)"? —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 01:28, 20 January 2026 (UTC)
  • also reprised her role ---> also got a role in the film Note: 'reprise a role' specifically means playing the same character they already
    • Not sure either. I am thinking, would "position" be a better word since Wing Mo is the acting coach? —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 22:02, 17 January 2026 (UTC)
    • I see! I like 'reprised her position' better; also consider 'reappeared' and 'returned'
  • as he believed society was in greater need of it than he was writing the screenplay ten years ago. ---> as he believed society was in greater need of it compared to the time when he was writing the screenplay.

Themes

  • Philip Yung initially described the screenplay as focusing on the aspects of "letting go" and "tolerance", while aiming to "further explore mercy". ---> According to Philip Yung, the screenplay initially focused on the aspects of "tolerance", "letting go", and aimed to "further explore mercy".
  • the surviving father (played by Sean Lau), who loves his family equally ---> the surviving father, who loves his family equally
  • Writer Priscilla Ng echoed Yung's explanation, viewing the film as centered around "relief" ----> Writer Priscilla Ng echoed Yung's explanation, viewing the film's thematic center in "relief"
  • Scholar Natalia Chan offered another perspective and considered the film more a metaphor for Hong Kong, where the Yuens' home symbolises a hometown, and despite the love for the place and the desire to stay, the tragedies and fractured relationships cannot be easily recovered, echoing the aftermath of the 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests. ---> Scholar Natalia Chan offered another perspective interpreting the film as a metaphor for contemporary Hong Kong society, where Yuens' home symbolises Hong Kong—and despite the love for the place and the desire to stay—the tragedies and fractured relationships cannot be easily recovered, echoing the aftermath of the 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests.
  • He viewed the father's confusion in the film as a representation of how time allows for the reinterpretation and evolution of emotions, suggesting that there exists a stasis between memories fading into oblivion and the film captures "the chaotic vacuum" of someone wanting to forget something they cannot let go of. ---> He viewed the father's confusion in the film as a representation of how time allows for the reinterpretation and evolution of emotions, suggesting that there exists a stasis, "the chaotic vacuum", between present memories and memories fading into oblivion, and the film captures this in-between moment when a person wants to forget something they cannot yet let go of. Note: Took some creative liberties to make it clearer and hopefully true to the film
    • I do not think it deviates from what Yung was trying to say in the Initium Media interview.  Done —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 01:28, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

Reception

  • Film critic Li Cheuk-to observed that Papa, along with two other commercially successful 2024 Hong Kong films All Shall Be Well and The Last Dance, all centered on the theme of mourning the deceased, suggesting that this has become a collective unconscious for Hongkongers and reflecting the city's decline. ----> Film critic Li Cheuk-to observed that Papa, along with two other commercially successful 2024 Hong Kong films All Shall Be Well and The Last Dance, centered on the theme of mourning the deceased, suggesting that this theme has became a collective unconscious for Hongkongers and reflected the city's decline.
    • I have made the change according to your suggestion, but I am not sure if "all centered" would be better, since Li's point was to emphasize the themes of these three films. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 01:28, 20 January 2026 (UTC)
  • Consider adding infobox for score reviews and remove some scores from prose
    • Thank you very much for reviewing this lengthy article and for all your valuable suggestions, LastJabberwocky! But regarding this one, I think I have only seen score review infoboxes used in video game articles, not in film articles. I remember seeing an editor add something similar to a superhero film (though I cannot recall which one unfortunately) and it was swiftly reverted. I checked MOS:FILMCRITICS and did not see anything about using score infoboxes there either. Also, as only three out of nine reviews contain a scaled score, I do not think it really impacts readability to keep it in the prose. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 21:38, 22 January 2026 (UTC)
      • My bad! I assume Wikipedia doesn't have film reviews infoboxes precisely for the reason you mentioned (fewer cases of scoring comparing to Albums and videogames). 09:51, 23 January 2026 (UTC)
        • I actually think it would be great to have these infoboxes for film articles, especially for some Hollywood blockbuster films. Perhaps you could propose this at WikiProject Film to see if there is interest in creating such a template? —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 17:51, 24 January 2026 (UTC)
  • (not a GA requirement, and almost all of the older GAs do not use this) Consider structuring reception by aspects critics liked not by publications as some of the publications repeat themselves. For example, there are several publications that praise emotional depths, Lu's performance, exploration of guilt, and "unwieldy flashbacks" (timeline). Then choose quotes/paraphrased sentences you like for each aspect to further explain why these aspects has been praised/not praised. See Godzilla Minus One for inspiration.
    • I am not sure about it either. I actually followed WP:RECEPTION and referenced an FA High and Low (1963 film) while writing the critical responses section for this article by adding connection statements to link the reviews together, and I organized the paragraphs by sorting the reviews into different aspects: the first paragraph consists of positive praise for the film's direction and performance, the second compares the film's genre to other Hong Kong films, and the third contains mixed reviews with some criticism. I know some editors prefer to group certain reviews into a single sentence to generally describe their take on a specific aspect, but I am not a fan of that approach. I think it is WP:UNDUE to overgeneralize different reviews into one subjective aspect chosen by the editor, which could also be seen as WP:SYNTH. So I prefer not to use that structuring method. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 21:38, 22 January 2026 (UTC)
      • Yeah, synth argument is really convincing, and I think someone already brought up this argument with me during GA process :). I still like this approach if carefully implemented, but it is for sure not obligatory and in some cases unnecessary. In the case of High and Low, the film doesn't have enough reviews to separate reviews by specific aspects. I have a hunch that our critical reception can be improved. Maybe I'll come up with potential reformatted version for your consideration. (i believe Igor (album) is another good example of smooth, SYNTH-free reception). —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 09:51, 23 January 2026 (UTC)
    • Also, I think a source spot-check is needed for GA reviews. I believe you have already done it since you mentioned being able to check inline sources during the proofreading of the Production section, but it would be helpful to list which sources you chose for the spot checks for reference by other editors. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 21:38, 22 January 2026 (UTC)
      • I'll check seven refs in 'production', 'themes' and 'reception'. While I still remember: I think the note saying that Jennifer Yu didn't appear in the theatrical version can have an additional cite. The inline source only says that some of the scenes were cut without mentioning Yu. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 09:51, 23 January 2026 (UTC)
        • This is very tricky and I really want to hear your thoughts on it. I searched for sources but could not find any (as it is hard to prove something that did not happen). I also looked at other film or TV articles where a star was initially announced to be part of the cast but then did not appear, and usually these articles only leave such information unsourced in the body text. (Like Eternals (film)#Post-production: "Additionally, Gil Birmingham was revealed to have been cast in the film,[83] although he was absent in the final film.[citation needed]") However, since none of the articles I found meet GA standards (where every sentence generally requires inline citations), I ultimately decided to move this to the footnotes. I was wondering whether WP:PLOTSOURCE applies to it, or if you would suggest I remove this footnote (and perhaps even the mention of Yu in the body text) to play it safe? —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 17:51, 24 January 2026 (UTC)
          • Couldn't find any prior discussion on WP:Wikiproject Films regarding cut roles. I think they are similar to uncredited roles (appeared in a version of a film but aren't mentioned in the credits). And uncredited roles should be referenced and does not fall under WP:PLOTSOURCE. Maybe remove the mention of Yu from the footnote and add it as plain text into release? —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 08:17, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
            • That is a good suggestion, and I would propose that we move that line to the Post-production section, since I think it is more related to editing than to the release. I have also made a slight tweak to Yu's mention in the body text. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 22:27, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

Spotcheck

The quotes are taken from the inline sources that follow the green text. Some of the articles are written in Chinese, but I used only the English versions translated by Google Translate

  • Adopting a narrative style similar to that of Port of Call and Where the Wind Blows (2022), Yung used a stream of consciousness and wrote the screenplay from the father's perspective, focusing on his navigation of the aftermath of the murder while the arcs of the other characters unfolded around him. checkY
    • "It’s almost like he was remembering things from a stream of consciousness."
    • "In fact, Philip Yung had already used a slightly stream-of-consciousness style to tell stories in 2015's "Port of Call" and 2023's "When the Wind Rises."
    • "Of course, there are also parts about the son, the mother and other characters, but the most fascinating subject is the father"
  • In 2011, Philip Yung was invited to join the adaptation of the Heung Wo Street Murder as the screenwriter, after an undisclosed director was impressed by his screenplay draft which later evolved into Port of Call (2015).[19] Yung, who grew up in Tsuen Wan and lived nearby Heung Wo Street, was already familiar with the murder case before the film's production and cited his familiarity with the crime scene as crucial for capturing the film's sense of place
    • He said, without revealing his name, that a renowned director, after reading the script, had asked him to write the screenplay in 2011, adapting another case from 2010 in Tsuen Wan checkY
    • which later evolved into Port of Call (2015) not sure that the inline source makes this connection
      • Yes and it is from the same quote above. I think it is a translation issue. The sentence "某大導看了該片劇本後" should be translated as "after reading that film's (該片) script," where "that film" is referring to the aforementioned film in the previous sentence, which is Port of Call. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 17:51, 24 January 2026 (UTC) checkY
    • Coincidentally, Wong Chi-kwong has lived in Tsuen Wan for over 40 years, and the place where he grew up is only one street away from the apartment where the incident occurred, making it easier for him to grasp the local context. checkY
    • I'm not familiar enough with sense of place; is "local context" equal enough to "sense of space"? It also can be the case of lost in translation
  • For instance, the film included scenes of the father writing letters to his deceased wife, inspired by real advice from psychiatrist David Tsang [zh] to Kan as a form of narrative therapy. checkY
    • Weng Ziguang said, "I think he felt a bit more relaxed after telling me these stories. It was the doctor who asked him to write letters to his deceased wife. When I went to his house, I saw dozens of letters he had written to his wife. This is called narrative therapy. Healing one's pain through writing is like being the one who conveys this story and taking on this role."
    • It was a suggestion from psychiatrist Zeng Fanguang, who suggested that he use narrative therapy to relieve his longing and depression for his wife."
  • Scholar Natalia Chan [zh] offered another perspective interpreting the film as a metaphor for contemporary Hong Kong society, where Yuens' home symbolises Hong Kong—and despite the love for the place and the desire to stay—the tragedies and fractured relationships associated with the place cannot be easily forgotten, echoing the aftermath of the 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests.
    • Even if the wound heals, the scars are never truly erased. Furthermore, sitting in the theater watching the plot unfold, I gradually came to see Yongnian's home as a metaphor: it was once the scene of a bloodbath, and it was also once a warm and welcoming place where he could not and did not want to leave. It's just like my city, where I was born and grew up, where I was hurt and suffered. Staying is for the sake of memories, for the sake of love, for the sake of not being able to leave, and for the sake of hope for the future. The director hopes to use "love" to continue and support, but all I have is hatred that I cannot forget! checkY
    • echoing the aftermath of the 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests I can glean the reference to the protest but I'm not sure it vivid enough. Maybe the sentence can be reformatted to tell the metaphor from Chan's perspective (why it is so resonant to her) and move it to critical reception?
      • Chan mentioned "post-2019" (後2019) but indeed did not explicitly discuss the allegorical relationship between the film and the protests. I am considering rephrasing it verbatim as something like "post-2019 Hong Kong" with a piped link to the protests. Perhaps like: "the tragedies and fractured relationships associated with the place cannot be easily forgotten in the "post-2019" Hong Kong"? —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 17:51, 24 January 2026 (UTC)
        • I like your new phrasing but I don't think we should link to Hong Kong protests as it comes to close to original research and a surprise link. I wanted to suggest adding another article about Papa that brings up the protests but sadly couldn't find any. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 07:25, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
          • LastJabberwocky, I actually found a review by critic Ben Lam that similarly mentions how the film echoes the aftermath of the 2019 protests. However, that review is published in The Epoch Times, which is considered a deprecated source on enwiki (WP:EPOCHTIMES). Since I plan to promote the article to FA, which requires "the best sources", I preferred not to risk any disputes over source reliability and therefore had to exclude that review from the article.
          • You make a very good point about the surprise link and potential OR concerns, so my previous paraphrase may not have been ideal. I have been considering moving that part to the reception section, as you suggested, and have tried rephrasing it accordingly. But it appears that Chan (who is a scholar rather than a critic) primarily wrote about an allegorical reading of the film rather than providing an actual review, and I find it somewhat difficult to objectively summarize her opinions. Perhaps the best solution left for us is to remove the final sentence "echoing the aftermath of the 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests." and only retain the previous lines stating that she interprets the film as an allegory for Hong Kong society? —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 22:27, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
            • Yeah, I think its the right decision. I would also transform: where Yuens' home symbolises Hong Kong—and despite the love for the place and the desire to stay—the tragedies and fractured relationships associated with the place cannot be easily forgotten ----> where Yuens' home symbolises two opposite sentiments within Hong Kong society, marked by love for the place and desire to stay, despite tragedies and fractured relationships that cannot be easily forgotten. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 08:36, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
  • Writer Priscilla Ng echoed Yung's explanation, viewing the film's thematic centre in "relief", and noted that the father's repeated attempts to calm himself symbolise his struggle to maintain sanity amidst life's impermanence, emphasising that only by embracing one's emotions can one find peace. checkY
    • The desire and demand embodied in counting 1, 2, 3, 4—to restrain oneself, to hold on, to be strong, to avoid falling into the abyss, and to maintain a certain order—seems to suggest to the audience why Ruan continues to function normally and remain a good man even after reality collapses. This includes Ruan checking downstairs to see if anyone has been bothered after the incident, reminding the shop owner across the street to be careful about being fired, caring about the police having to start work so early, telling his younger sister not to obstruct the psychiatrist outside the courthouse, and even asking his son if he's hungry as his first question upon seeing him in detention. These actions, though almost unbelievable, are not about "why he can do it," nor are they purely about great, selfless, and deep paternal love. Rather, they seem to be his protective mechanism, his survival belief—a sanity supported by a sense of order. That driving force, perhaps like the "Don't get angry" sign on the calendar on his wall, is about not deviating from the norm.
  • Whang Yee Ling also rated the film 4/5 stars in her review for The Straits Times, appreciating Lau's portrayal of the grieving father and the delivery of a "wrenching story" full of emotional weight through the piecing together of his fragmented memories and the box-like screen ratio. checkY
    • Papa is a portrait of a father’s unfathomable grief in the aftermath of the carnage.
    • each occupies a chapter in the impressionistic non-linear narrative, the cast – yes, the cat too – uniformly outstanding.
    • The 4:3 screen ratio boxes Nin in his emotions. His only hope, that which sustains him, is for Ming’s return someday, because his son is all he has left. Lau is shattering, heading an excellent ensemble in a wrenching story of a family destroyed by a violent act.
  • The Hollywood Reporter's Jordan Mintzer characterised the film as "a kaleidoscope of impressions" that explores guilt and regret through an emotional journey from the father's perspective, while noting that its disoriented timeline and filming style "dulls the dramatic impact", yet ultimately praised Yung's "cerebral" direction for providing a complex reflection on handling grief. checkY
    • the film is less a thriller than a kaleidoscope of impressions. Guilt and regret swirl around in both the past and present, alleviated by occasional flickers of happiness.
    • This style somewhat dulls the dramatic impact of Papa, despite ample use of slow-motion, music and other techniques meant to try and heighten sensations. Yung is more of a cerebral filmmaker than an emotional one;
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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