Talk:Sam Smith/Archive 1

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Please change "Smith subsequently awarded 12.5% of the royalties from his hit "Stay with Me" to Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne, co-writers of Petty's 1989 hit "I Won't Back Down," upon being confronted with the similarities between the two songs. Petty and Lynne are now listed as co-writers on the track.[33]" to "Smith subsequently awarded 12.5% of the royalties from his hit "Stay with Me" to Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne, co-writers of Petty's 1989 hit "I Won't Back Down," upon being confronted with the similarities in the melodies of the choruses between the two songs. Petty and Lynne are now listed as co-writers on the track.[33]" ^[2]

Please also add "Smith and Petty settled the copyright dispute through an amicable agreement which prevented the situation from becoming litigated." ^[3]

Please also add "Smith admits to have never heard this song from 1989 as he is only 22 years of age and was shocked by the coincidence in song similarities." ^[4]

Please also add "Petty was the one to initiate the copyright dispute but never intended to sue Smith. He admits, “The word lawsuit was never even said and was never my intention […] I wish Sam all the best for his ongoing career.” ^[5]

Zepcar2BB3 (talk) 00:12, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Not done for now: Closing this request due to lack of communication in responding to a question asked over a week ago. Apparently there is no consensus to make the change as it stands or the request wasn't clear enough either in what needed to be replaced, what the replacement text should be, or why it is beneficial to the encyclopedia to make the change as requested. Feel free to reopen this request when all of the criteria have been met. Thank you, — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 21:20, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

This edit request to Sam Smith (singer) has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Yeah. 2601:43:1:9A18:D106:C56F:E82F:DF23 (talk) 18:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. NiciVampireHeart 18:21, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

This edit request to Sam Smith (singer) has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

| nationality = British 121.54.54.239 (talk) 05:32, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a specific change.
Please note that "nationality" is not a supported parameter in the "musical artist" infobox and we do not use flags as MOS:ICON#Avoid_flag_icons_in_infoboxes
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 08:25, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

This edit request to Sam Smity (singer) has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Moveonupleah (talk) 21:25, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Surely it's time to move this page to Sam Smith, with a disambiguation page where the other, far lesser-known Sam Smiths can be found? The vast majority of Wikipedia users searching 'Sam Smith' will be trying to find this man. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.77.197.57 (talk) 05:47, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

I would fact check Smith's status as the first openly gay male to win an Oscar. Sir Elton John won one for the Lion King. Sondheim won one for Dick Tracy. Grendel son (talk) 04:50, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

He dedicated his Oscar to the gay community, since homosexuals are oppressed in the music and film industry.^[1]

--Momo Monitor (talk) 05:33, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Not really sure why Wikipedia will have 'blue-eyed soul' on any singer of nowadays. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omysfysfybmm (talk • contribs) 00:11, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

This edit request to Sam Smith (singer) has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Sam Smith is now dating Brandon Flynn, the 13 reasons why star. I request this change as soon as possible. EmilyGarib (talk) 22:39, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:35, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

This edit request to Sam Smith (singer) has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change he/him to they/them, due to his new announcements as coming out as non-binary. Spacegal1984 (talk) 09:58, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

See above. We don't need to handle the same request three times. Largoplazo (talk) 11:20, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Sam hasn't come out as either nonbinary or genderqueer. The statement "I feel as much like a woman as I do a man" doesn't mean anything other than what it says. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 13:05, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Yeah can we switch it back to he/him until he says otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.87.140.149 (talk) 20:17, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

This edit request to Sam Smith (singer) has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

add his partner to it Jonathan Zeizel TaylorSwift013REP (talk) 16:21, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 16:28, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

This edit request to Sam Smith (singer) has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

HI THIS IS MY REQUEST. SAM SMITH USES NON-BINARY PRONOUNS (THEY/THEM), SO TO RESPECT HIS REQUEST PLEASE CHANGE THE HE/HIMS TO THEY/THEMS. THANK YOU! Ervanscoy (talk) 21:44, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — IVORK _Discuss 23:19, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

He's English , born and raised yet the main page clearly states he's an American singer -songwriter Zincubus (talk) 21:05, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

As Smith identifies as nonbinary, should we change the pronouns? 2605:6001:E7C4:1E00:85F8:F9:1E32:A680 (talk) 06:18, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

No. Hogiesossies (talk) 14:08, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

REMOVE IT NOW!! HengeBoy (talk) 00:00, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Remove all references as "he" and turn them into gender neutral pronouns "they/them" Sophiepangal997 (talk) 18:40, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

• Please see the discussion on the exact same issue right above you. Sam himself said he wants masculine pronouns still. ModerateMikayla555 (talk) 18:56, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Is smith is gay? this is a question that needs to be answered.

Yes, Sam still refers to himself as gay. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 01:49, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

This edit request to Sam Smith (singer) has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change pronouns he/him/his to they/them/theirs. Drumminor83 (talk) 04:41, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: Just because he's gay doesn't mean he identifies as agender. SparklingPessimist ^{Scream at me!} 06:26, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Exactly LincMarx (talk) 17:17, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Updated info on gender expression lists Sam Smith as non binary. This must be updated. LincMarx (talk) 17:18, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Did Sam Smith say he wanted to be referred to as "they"? Or are people presuming it? Largoplazo (talk) 17:36, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Regardless of whether or not Sam announced their new pronouns, it is only basic respect to not presume ourselves that they go by "he/him" pronouns. Gender-neutral pronouns are gender-neutral for a reason; they can be used for any person, *especially* one who identifies as non-binary. 50.75.209.82 (talk) 15:50, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

It's only basic respect not to presume that a given person accepts an appellation that the proponents of a particular ideology (in this case, the ideology that gender is fluid but language is not, so that because "he" and "she" have previously been gender-specific, it is unthinkable that we might now simply take a more flexible attitude toward their meaning) have taken it upon themselves to dictate. How do you know that Sam Smith wouldn't roll Sam Smith's eyes at being called "they"? And even beg not to be? Largoplazo (talk) 16:38, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Per , he hasn't asked anyone to switch pronouns, and he just got through referring to himself as a "gay guy". I thoroughly appreciate the complexity of the pronoun issue, but I don't much sympathize with the latest political decision by activists in a group being imposed on all members of the group without their own say-so. It isn't as though we haven't gone for years not unilaterally calling people "te/ter", "ze/zer", and "xe/xer". We can just as well wait until an individual expresses a preference for "they". Largoplazo (talk) 03:04, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Regarding the lack of Sam announcing pronouns, should we use Sam's name in place of any pronouns to avoid the issue altogether until Sam announces desired pronouns? I apologize for not seeing the talk page before, I am relatively new here.Tylernewcomb (talk) 03:30, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

It's now official. They use they/them. 1 2 Page should be edited. 2602:306:36E4:2100:7D05:FDF1:58DE:7ABB (talk) 16:01, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Sam Smith now prefers they/their pronouns, per this Instagram announcement. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 14:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

• Indeed, he has officially announced this. And several reliable sources have covered it, like NME, Irish Examiner and Capital FM. We should change the article to they/them pronouns asap.—NØ 16:08, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
• Agreed. I've tried to catch as many of these as possible. I also added a mention of the pronouns in to the lead. It may be reasonable to place it somewhere lower, but I think the practice should be to explain the pronoun usage before the first instance of the singular they. Nblund ^talk 16:30, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

• I agree with this; I think it should be lower, as its existence in the lead appears to give undue weight—but it's needed to provide clarity where (e.g.) "their first single" could be construed as a plural. Given that the article now reflects the "they/their" pronoun, and today's news is mentioned in the "Personal life" section, I'm going to be bold and reword the lead. MIDI (talk) 19:35, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I think the easiest option, especially for readers unfamiliar with gender-neutral pronouns, would be to have a hatnote to describe it, like I added in this edit. This is consistent with the existing Wikipedia usage of hatnotes to describe forms of naming that the average reader may be unfamiliar with, for example Template:Vietnamese name. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 22:35, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Hatnotes are to be used judiciously and I personally think that a hatnote is probably too much, but an editnotice might be appropriate. Sceptre (talk) 23:02, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

In my opinion, the problem is that editnotices are, well, only noticed by editors, but hatnotes are noticed by everyone. The purpose of hatnote templates (like the foreign-language name ones I mentioned above) is to provide the reader, who may be unfamiliar with stuff like this, with knowledge of why the article is the way it is. In my opinion, this situation is pretty much the same: a lot of readers will be unfamiliar with the singular they, or confused by it. And a hatnote would be useful for those readers. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 14:23, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

I see that editors have caught the various instances of "he" and "him," but you've still missed a couple of instances of "his." I'd edit those myself -- I thought I was a registered user -- but I can't find my login info. 141.126.242.201 (talk) 23:43, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Also, for the record, all their related articles require an update. I'd do it, but I'm busy to edit that amount of pages. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 16:48, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Can someone please change 'prefers they/them pronouns' to 'uses they/them pronouns?' Calling pronouns preferred implies that there can be a choice, gives someone else the power to decide to misgender someone. Drew-Marie (talk) 17:14, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

A lot of the language guidance (Human Rights Campaign and GLAAD) talks about pronoun preferences, so I don't necessarily see this as problematic. But I also can't see a reason not to avoid that language. I've changed "prefers" to "uses", I'm open to hearing out objections if there's a reason this doesn't work. Nblund ^talk 18:41, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

1. A hatnote felt excessive to me. I've changed it to a footnote. 2. I've changed the wording to "Sam Smith's pronouns are they/them." ("uses" always feels a bit off to me in this context: a person doesn't use their own pronouns, they ask other people to use them.) (There's some irony here considering the wording of the they/them userbox on my own userpage. Perhaps I should try and get that changed...) WanderingWanda (talk) 19:57, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Of course there is a choice. You can't mean to suggest that it's literally impossible for somebody not to use the pronouns someone else wants. 86.154.141.222 (talk) 13:45, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Speaking as a nonbinary person myself, the wording I prefer to use is "goes by" such-and-such pronouns. However, "prefers" is not always inaccurate; some nonbinary people do have a ranked preference of pronouns. For example, I strongly prefer they/them/their, but do accept he/him/his (particularly from strangers who I don't have the time or inclination to educate about nonbinary gender). Funcrunch (talk) 20:59, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

The item in the Personal Information section about Jonathan Ziezel is incorrect. Ziezel and Sam Smith dated for a few weeks and both are gay. The subject of 'In The Lonely Hour' is a straight man and Sam has never revealed the identity of this person who is married. I should be grateful if this could be amended. Sam Smith has talked about this once in interview. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JillBirks (talk • contribs) 07:37, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

@JillBirks: We need something more specific than "once in interview" to verify the statements. I don't see where adding anything about "In the Lonely Hour" is justified. —C.Fred (talk) 15:38, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Sam Smith Signature.svg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:51, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

If they came out as non-binary, shouldn't we change the pronouns? Especially if they specifically said they are neither make note female. LincMarx (talk) 17:16, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Ask him. It isn't for anyone else to decide. Largoplazo (talk) 14:16, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

I've added Category:People with non-binary gender identities. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:15, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

They have now officially changed their pronouns to “they/them”, as expressed on their personal Instagram account. Please update this page. Truthbetold2675 (talk) 15:51, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

No, it should be left as he/him, since Wikipedia is non-biased, it wouldn't use a term biased to a persons personal preference when refereeing to them. Do you think criminals refer to themselves as criminals, or fraudsters refer to themselves as a fraudster? No, but Wikipedia doesn't make changes for them. Wikipedia claims to be unbiased then use unbias words. --2605:A000:1E02:C30A:479:7DAF:C3BE:AB71 (talk) 05:42, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

And MOS:GENDER says we shouldn't introduce our own biases as editors into the matter. We go with how they refer to themselves. —C.Fred (talk) 16:02, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Smith has suggested that he is no longer gender binary. Will the page reflect this in the future? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Williamsa14 (talk • contribs) 19:37, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

If they prefer they/them pronouns, that's what we should be using per MOS:GENDERID. ModerateMikayla555 (talk) 16:54, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

According to this Vanity Fair article reporting the interview, Smith intends to continue with male pronouns "for the time being". Loganberry (Talk) 16:54, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

They announced they wanted to start using they/them pronouns on Instagram today Sep. 13 2019. 70.118.95.226 (talk) 14:38, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I don't agree with this at all. Wikipedia articles aren't a place where the subject's personal preference normally takes precedence. If we choose to do this out of respect, all well and good, but using what most people see as a plural pronoun is guaranteed to cause confusion if not done with care. I would suggest that we avoid use of the pronoun where possible in the article; most sentences can be rephrased to achieve that. Deb (talk) 14:20, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

That is a less-ambiguous approach. MOS guidance isn't as clear for singular they for non-binary individuals as it is for transgender individuals who have switched to another singular pronoun, but it does say that avoiding pronouns altogether is an acceptable solution. I did remove the one glaring "himself" from the article; I think the sentence is sufficiently clear with it omitted. —C.Fred (talk) 15:30, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

This edit request to Sam Smith has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

This states Sam Smith as they but he is only one person. I got very confused reading this and it is grammatically wrong. 223.205.98.37 (talk) 11:21, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: The last sentence of the lead section says "Smith is genderqueer and uses singular they pronouns." GoingBatty (talk) 14:46, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Before they came out, they were using he/him. Should we use the they/them pronouns after they identified as non-binary? Like before they came out, use he/him, and after, they/them New3400 (talk) 18:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Sam Smith has requested it: -Sam Smith did say that they identifies as a they/them, so we should respect their pronouns.

• MOS:GENDERID: Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns...that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise.
• GLAAD Media Reference Guide: Ideally, a story will not use pronouns associated with a person's birth sex when referring to the person's life prior to transition.
• The Radical Copyeditor's Style Guide for Writing About Transgender People: Some trans people do use a different name and/or pronouns to talk about themselves prior to transition, but this is rare. Unless you are told differently, only use a person’s true/current name and pronouns, even when writing about them in the past.

WanderingWanda (talk) 18:32, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

class="autosigned">— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.38.185.65 (talk) 10:14, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Why not? If they prefer that pronoun, there's no reason not to use "they/them". —C.Fred (talk) 13:50, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

They says that they feels "as much like a woman as a man" and that this is expressed in their actions, such as going to school in make up.

We should be embracing the progressive view that men can wear makeup, or that if a man does wear make up he is still a man.

Either way that the editors go on this one, it has ideological baggage.

Tuhawaiki (talk) 03:12, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

The second sentence in the first line says "He rose to prominence" when it should say "They rose to prominence." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.65.39.20 (talk) 23:20, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. —C.Fred (talk) 23:30, 11 June 2020 (UTC)