Talk:Semiotics

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Good articleSemiotics has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that semioticians interpret the waggle dance of honey bees as a text?
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Semiotics and communication

A recent modification mentioned an assertion as "bullshit". I removed that (which seemed somewhat exaggerated) and tried to express the lead in simpler terms, but there obviously is a problem in that semiotics, in these firts paragraphs, appears described as a matter of communication, which it may or may not be. More should be done to clarify that. I may try to do something in the coming days, but everybody is welcome ... — Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 20:26, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Leibniz

The page about Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz remarks that his attention to symbols and notation made his work a precursor to semiotics. But his name does not appear in this page. Van.snyder (talk) 22:23, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

Changes to the article

Remsense and I are thinking about implementing changes to this article with the hope of moving it in the direction of GA status. Large parts of the current article lack references. There are also the maintenance tags 13x citation needed, 1x Only primary sources, and 1x permanent dead link. At some points, the article is incoherent. For example, the discussion in the subsubsection "Peirce's list of categories" does not state what those categories are but jumps instead to the topics of Umwelt and animals without clarifying the relation.

The article has an odd structure in some places. Individual theorists are first discussed in the history section and then again in the section "Notable semioticians" with a lot of overlap and without a principle of what goes where. I think it would be better to have a unified history section that covers all notable semioticians in a concise manner. The article would also benefit from new sections dedicated to core topics of semiotics as a whole, such as a section on the nature, types, and models of signs. Another section could be added for sign systems and their underlying structures (like paradigmatic and syntagmatic axes), codes, and texts. Some of these points are currently spread around the discussion of individual theorists while others are not mentioned at all.

The sections "Formulations and subfields" and "Current applications" could be reorganized to have one section focusing on the core branches (syntactics, semantics, pragmatics) and another on the applications in particular fields, such as biology, anthropology, and literature. Since this is an article and not a list, it would be better to explain the topics in prose rather than lengthy lists. Another improvement could be having sections dedicated to the definition and methods of semiotics.

There are more things to consider, but they can be addressed later since the ones mentioned so far will already involve a lot of work to implement. We were hoping to get some feedback on these ideas and possibly other suggestions. For a more detailed discussion, see User_talk:Phlsph7#Semiotics. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:46, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

Removal of photo of sink with wrongly colour coded taps

Why has this photo been removed from this article? I am not able to find out when this was done. I have always used that photo to try to illustrate and make people get some idea of what this "semiotics" is about.

Not hot and cold water even if the blue and red colours seem to indicate it

Øyvind Teig (talk) 09:00, 5 February 2026 (UTC)

Hello Øyvind Teig and thanks for your comment. The association of blue with cold water and red with hot water is a symbolic or conventional relation. Symbols are discussed in the subsection "Types and sign relations", with an image related to language since this is the most influential symbol system. In principle, we could also use an image on the red-hot & blue-cold symbolism, possibly to accompany the paragraph on non-verbal communication. However, the image you suggest doesn't seem to be ideal to visualize this point since the faucets are very small and both are apparently connected to the same pipe, leaving the reader more confused than enlightened. Phlsph7 (talk) 12:38, 5 February 2026 (UTC)
Being connected to the same pipe is the point: The colors seem to indicate some difference between the faucets, but that's misleading. But I agree that the image isn't great. The faucets are small, and we'd have to explain what idea the photo is supposed to illustrate. — Chrisahn (talk) 12:58, 5 February 2026 (UTC)
I also agree, but wouldn't a text similar to mine suffice? The point is that once a reader discovers the problem of the motive, he'll remember it, and immediately attach that strange wisdom as something like "what was it, faucet colour codes was it, semiotics was it!" Being so strict on the means here maybe we do throw the baby out with the bathwater's article's purpose :-) Øyvind Teig (talk) 15:11, 5 February 2026 (UTC)
I don't have a strong opinion. Several semiotic questions could be exemplified by the image: The colors on the faucets were intended as signs when they were produced, but probably not when they were installed. Users may still interpret them as signs but may be surprised when the water doesn't have the expected temperature. So yes, the image might be useful. Or maybe not, because it would require too much explanatory text. And the faucets are pretty small – I think the image should be cropped to focus on the relevant parts (faucets and pipe). — Chrisahn (talk) 19:51, 5 February 2026 (UTC)
Doesn't really matter, but the image was removed in this rewrite of the article (found via WikiBlame). — Chrisahn (talk) 19:52, 5 February 2026 (UTC)
Ok, since it's actually you @Phlsph7 who removed it on that rewrite, maybe you should be the one to consider undoing this photo. I was happy with it as it was. And I miss it! I was also happy with the explanation it had. Some time a photo speaks for itself, which this one does, in the context. But the rather long explanation doesn't in my opinion make the photo or the point unpresentable. Here is the part that was removed:
Color-coding hot- and cold-water faucets (taps) is common in many cultures but, as this example shows, the coding may be rendered meaningless because of context. The two faucets probably were sold as a coded set, but the code is unusable (and ignored), as there is a single water supply.
(I have not studied the rest of that rewrite, which seemed substantial and probably on time.) Closing now - Øyvind Teig (talk) 09:08, 11 February 2026 (UTC)
Why do you want to present a counterexample? If we want to explain colors as a semiotic code, wouldn't it be better to present a positive example? For any example or counterexample, the image should be as straightforward as possible. The need to zoom in to see the color of the faucets and the difficulty of visually following pipes along several turns make the image not particularly accessible. We also have to be careful about including personal speculations in caption, like the claim that "The two faucets probably were sold as a coded set". Phlsph7 (talk) 10:41, 11 February 2026 (UTC)
I agree that the faucet selling info is not necessary and that the accompanying text should be to the point. Again, in my opinion counterexamples often are good pedagogical tools. I think that some times they unexpectedly open my eyes, which makes me remember better and then it helps the understanding. Øyvind Teig (talk) 09:00, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

Computational semiotics

A section on Computational and algebraic semiotics would be good.Yesterday, all my dreams... (talk) 10:13, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

There is already a paragraph discussing the relation between semiotics and computation. I added a sentence there to mention the term. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:37, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Yes, I had seen that but considered it somewhat telegraphic. Interesting issues such as the use of morphisms between signs in systems are not discussed here or on the other page, see as an example. The formal relationship between signs is of course fascinating. Yesterday, all my dreams... (talk) 09:46, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


This review is transcluded from Talk:Semiotics/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominators: Phlsph7 (talk · contribs) and Remsense (talk · contribs) 16:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: Freedom4U (talk · contribs) 00:00, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

Hi, I'll take up this GA review in the next few days. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 00:00, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

Hi Freedom4U and thanks for reviewing this nomination! Phlsph7 (talk) 07:47, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

Article is stable, images are appropriate and tagged (although I miss the photo of the sinks that used to be in the article), no copyvio in spot check, and all material has inline citations.

Hey Freedom4U, just checking whether you have more comments. Phlsph7 (talk) 15:31, 10 June 2026 (UTC)
Hi! Sorry about the wait, I'll finish the review tomorrow. The battery in my laptop where I've downloaded all the books died so I've been waiting for a replacement. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 18:30, 11 June 2026 (UTC)
Sorry to hear about the battery, that can be frustrating. Regarding the spotchecks, I can't quote full pages of text here, but I should be able to add shorter quotes below to cover at least the main points of each passage if your laptop is still not working. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:37, 12 June 2026 (UTC)
Hey Freedom4U, just following up regarding additional comments you might have. Phlsph7 (talk) 13:22, 19 June 2026 (UTC)
Hey Freedom4U, it has been one month now since the review started. How should we proceed? Phlsph7 (talk) 07:25, 1 July 2026 (UTC)
Hi! I'm really sorry about the delay, I'll try to get the rest done tonight. My laptop is still out of order, so I'm borrowing a friend's computer. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 15:18, 3 July 2026 (UTC)
@Phlsph7 Sorry again about the delay in getting this done. I'm ready to pass this awaiting source 85. Cheers ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 16:05, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
I adjusted the caption and added a new source. Phlsph7 (talk) 16:59, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
Looks good! Thanks for bearing with me ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 17:41, 9 July 2026 (UTC)

Spot check

  • 9 - Apart from its interdisciplinary applications, pure semiotics... This sentence constructs a distinction between interdisciplinary and pure semiotics, but the distinctions used by Nöth (1990) are Morris's pure/descriptive/applied semiotics or Moles's theoretical/applied semiotics. In addition, Nöth doesn't accept "pure semiotics" as an uncontested term, but the article is using it uncritically. I'm also curious why Morris isn't attributed here—while I think the choice can definitely be justified, both sources choose to attribute the divisions as his invention.
    The point of this sentence is primarily to mention the threefold distinction between syntactics, semantics, and pragmatics. I dropped the introductory phrase to avoid implying an additional distinction. The section "Core branches" already mentions Morris as the source. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
    Changes look good and the Morris attribution is nitpicky anyways. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 14:55, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
  • 21 (and 22 since 21 is a footnote) - Both Danesi and Nöth decide to attribute the sense and reference to Frege, which I think the article should follow, especially since it puts the terms connotation/denotation and intension/extension terms in context as concepts that are theoretically separate. Likewise, This distinction is also known by the terms connotation and denotation as well as intension and extension., as it is phrased, is an oversimplification that loses precision, since Nöth writes that to compare them (or treat them as synonymous) is to "neglect many theoretical differences".
    The German terms for the distinction between sense and reference were introduced by Frege, but the distinction is very common today and not limited to discussions of Frege's philosophy. For example, Nöth explains first the distinction itself In this chapter, the term meaning will be used in a very broad sense, covering both of the two more specific dimensions of sense (or content) and reference (object or denotatum). and mentions Frege's role only on a later page. I added a passage to the footnote to explain Frege's role. Nöth lists the other terms as synonyms in his table. He says that the table is a simplification because it ignores relational aspect of meaning, not because the terms do not align with each other. I add a slight reformulation to not imply that everyone treats them as exact synonyms. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
    Looks better now. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 14:58, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
  • 23 - Verified, although I would suggest removing or extensional since both Davis and Nöth give referential as the general category that include extensional/intensional theories as subcategories.
    Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
  • 34 - Verified.
  • 40 - (1) For Saussure, the sign is a relation that connects signifier and signified, functioning as a bridge from a sensory form to a concept. The sources do not say this. The sign for Saussure is the unified whole or unity of signifier and signified (i.e. that signifier and signified are constiuent parts of a sign), not the relation between them. As stated by Chandler, the relation between them is given a separate name, signification. (2) As stated by Chandler and Nöth, Saussure excludes reference as a feature of signs. ...does not directly concern the external objects to which signs refer should be replaced with something along the lines of ...does not concern external objects (which is basically Nöth's construction). (3) Focusing on language as a general model of signs... Not sure this phrasing best represents the references. Saussure was a linguist focused on linguistic signs, but as Nöth writes, the application of his sign model on nonlinguistic signs happened after him.
    (1) From Iskanderova 2024 p. 13: The sign, then, serves as the bridge that unites the signifier and the signified into a cohesive and meaningful unit, as depicted in Fig. 3.2. Stated differently, the sign is the relationship between the concept and the representation of that concept. That something is a relation does not mean that it is not a unified whole.
    (2) Slightly reformulated. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
    (3) From Nöth 1990 quoting Saussure: signs that are wholly arbitrary realize better than the others the ideal of the semiological process, that is why language, the most complex and universal of all systems of expression, is also the most characteristic; in this sense linguistics can become the master­pattern [patron général] for all branches of semiology although language is only one particular semiological system.
    Thanks for the clarification ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 15:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
  • 46 - I'll come back to this, can you clarify what pages were cited in Nöth? I assume its not the entire range between page 42 and page 434.
    It's a typo that is supposed to be 42–44. I fixed it. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
    Thanks for the clarification. The passage looks good. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 15:06, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
  • 52 - Verified.
  • 68 - The second sentence is verified, although the first sentence needs a reference.
    It is discussed at the beginning of the chapter. I added the page numbers. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
    Source verified ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 15:07, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
  • 85 - This citation is insufficient as it can't verify the claim without being synthesis.
    I think it covers the main phrase about models of communication. I added an additional source to be more explicit about the part on encoding and decoding. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
    I still don't think often including is explicitly substantiated in the references. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 15:38, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
    I focused the caption on code models of communication of communication instead to avoid the problem. Reboul 2017 code models of communication ... see communication as a form of information transfer in which the sender encodes the message ... the recipient ... will then decode it; from Chandler & Munday 2011: encoding–decoding model ... Any *model representing communication as a process of encoding and decoding *messages. Phlsph7 (talk) 16:56, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
  • 86 - Verified.
  • 99 - Both uses verified.
  • 100 - While traditional semiotics focuses on human communication and culture... Brier differentiates between Peircian semiotics that considers nature at large and Saussurian semiotics that doesn't. That biosemiotics integrates the findings of biology and semiotics is verifiable, but the sources cited here don't seem to contrast a "traditional semiotics" against a biosemiotics.
    I added a source so this point is covered more explicitly: From Winner 1989: Thus human agents in society are always the focus of the semiotic process ... Semiotics is thus by its nature an integrative and interdisciplinary field pertaining to all aspects of human communication ... Semiotics clearly encompasses the study of all human communicative mechanisms I adjusted the text to better reflected this source. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:47, 4 July 2026 (UTC)
    Looks good. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 15:12, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
  • 109 - Verified.
  • 136 - Verified.
  • 137 - Verified.
  • 140 - Verified. I think this sentence would be better off not including ...including their practical functions, historical heritage, and social significance because it derives from one view that was presented among several others. Perhaps this space could be better used describing the other sections in Nöth's chapter on architecture.
    Reformulated to also mention other aspects. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
    Reads better. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 15:17, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
  • 150 - Verified.
  • 170 - Verified.
  • 180 - Verified. Maybe not the best source, but that's outside the scope of GA.
  • 193 - The source doesn't discuss whether Wolff focus[ed] on how knowledge depends on sign activity. Otherwise verified.
    I guess it depends on how we interpret the sentence According to Wolff (§§ 292 and 952), "a sign is that entity from which the present, the future, or the past existence of another entity can be recognized." To avoid this difficulty, I focused the discussion of Wolff on the different types of natural signs instead. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
    New construction works. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 15:45, 9 July 2026 (UTC)
  • 203 - Verified.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. Track your hook after promotion. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Beta Beta Beta (talk) 21:59, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

  • ... that semioticians examine the meanings of all kinds of signs, including words, footprints, disease symptoms, and emojis?
  • Source: Danesi, Marcel (2020). The Quest for Meaning: A Guide to Semiotic Theory and Practice (2nd ed.). University of Toronto Press. pp. x, 144. ISBN 978-1-4875-0485-4.; Sebeok, Thomas A. (2001) [1994]. Signs: An Introduction to Semiotics (2nd ed.). University of Toronto Press. pp. 53–54. ISBN 0-8020-3634-1.
Improved to Good Article status by Phlsph7 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 39 past nominations.

Phlsph7 (talk) 10:19, 10 July 2026 (UTC).

    More information General: Article is new enough and long enough ...
    General: Article is new enough and long enough
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    More information Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems ...
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
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    More information Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation ...
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
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    QPQ: Done.
    Overall: I did know that! But then, Saussure and Kristeva were my bread and butter back in the day. Article is new enough. Hook facts are cited. No close paraphrasing found; the tool only gives a backwards copy. Should be good to go!   Chris Woodrich (talk) 18:42, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

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