Talk:Timothée Chalamet/Archive 1

Text being shifted back and forth between these sections, based on differing views on where some of it should go. Perhaps by dropping "life" from the latter section greater flexibility could be gained there? The following seems like something that should be included somewhere in the article:

His grandfather, screenwriter and writer Harold Flender, wrote Rescue in Denmark about the Rescue of the Danish Jews during the Holocaust.^[1]--Artaxerxes 13:09, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Should be listed. We spend such an absurd amount of space on 25% of his ancestry, that presumably, twice as much space should be dedicated to 50% of his family. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 13:25, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

For someone with family who have accomplished in somewhat related ways, a Family subsection could appear before Early. Family achievements which aren't really a part of his early, or personal, life could go there.--Artaxerxes 20:37, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

I have no long-term involvement here but in the last couple of weeks see back-and-forth editing over this point - this needs to be settled properly. There was a claim of a prior Talk page consensus (to describe simply as American), but looking at the section above, no consensus was achieved - one editor (IP) made a point re. French-American, a second, ElizaOscar, referenced and supported this, another (Brojam) accepted these combined points, then a fourth editor, All Hallow's Wraith, countered, and the latter two finished without consensus - AHW taking one position, EO taking another (first preference: French-American, second pref.: American actor who holds both American and French citizenship), and with 3 of 4 participating editors favouring French-American (but this is NOT a vote). No further Talk discussion occurred, and no consensus was reached. The subject spent 25-33% of their childhood in France, and self-identifies as of two cultures / nationalities, which carries significant weight, but on the other hand, a modest but material percentage of the American population has dual (or more varied) citizenship / upbringing... Anyway, the matter should be settled by proper debate here, not having the page flipping back and forth, sometimes also consuming Pending Changes capacity. When actual consensus is reached, this can be coded into the page by the final text.

As previously highlighted, this is a case-by-case matter. Examples were mentioned, but each is different - Saoirse Ronan, for example, mentioned, was born in the USA (automatic citizenship) but has also had Irish citizenship from birth, grew up mostly in Ireland, and self-identifies as Irish, but respecting her other citizenship, while others have "re-sought" their second culture later in life, or have been clear that they have multiple citizenships, but see themselves as American first and foremost. So I would not bring such cases too much into this discussion, rather focus on the facts and statements directly relating to T. Chalamet.SeoR (talk) 06:49, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I also have no involvement here, haven't even seen a movie with this actor in it, but I see this on Rami Malek's article where IP addresses add "Egyptian-American" to his opening lead, but he doesn't have dual citizenship. Even though he feels he is Egyptian through and through, it is removed on the grounds that there's no source stating he's an Egyptian citizen. If a reliable source proves he's an Egyptian citizen, then there shouldn't be a problem with including it. In regards to this article, if the person has a dual citizenship and states that both cultures are part of who they are, like with Chalamet, it should be included. "French-American" and "French and American actor" seem both acceptable to me. oncamera 11:46, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Why would it be included? He was born and raised in the U.S. and has never appeared in a French film. If his mother was French and his name was Timothy Flender, this conversation isn't happening. It's really that simple. Even the fact of his apparent dual citizenship was dug up in some obscure article. Every actor talks about their ethnic background. It doesn't mean it should go into their intro. In Chalamet's case, he is of 25% ancestral French descent (since his grandmother wasn't). It's total undue weight (WP:UNDUE). For several years since the creation of this article in 2015, he was listed as just American. Then he became famous, and suddenly he's French and must be introduced as such. With a few exceptions (that should be corrected), most Americans with a foreign-born parent who apparently have dual citizenship are listed as only "American,", i.e. Sandra Bullock, Kirsten Dunst, Scarlett Johansson, etc. Again, keep in mind, most of the Australian politicians who lost their high-ranking government positions in the 2017–18 Australian parliamentary eligibility crisis are not introduced as anything but "Australian," and again, their dual citizenship was something that had a massive and devastating impact on their careers. Barnaby Joyce had to resign as Deputy Prime Minister of Australia because of his dual citizenship, and he's not introduced as a "New Zealand-Australian politician." Here, it's a piece of trivia. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 15:37, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Let’s skip the Aussie politician point. They did not self-identify as anything else, in fact that was the root of the problem, they all thought of themselves as just Australians. N/A here. Back to Chalemet. Why not let him decide? He grew up partly in France, so the point on childhood is wrongly put.

Mr Or Ms Wraith, you seem to feel strongly on this, so perhaps step back and let neutral editors decide? No one owns an article or topic, I believe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.220.239.10 (talk) 16:38, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia is here to include facts and if he grew up spending months in France every year, fluent in French and holds French citizenship, it's not undue weight to note that by adding "French-American" to his lead. That's a total of 6 characters and it covers the information presented in the early life section which leads should also include. oncamera 16:44, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

His language skills don't have anything to do with anything. If you're weighing them, you should also weigh the fact that he's one quarter French by ancestry. Chalamet isn't a Wikipedia editor and hasn't been asked to weight in on how he should be introduced vis-à-vis Bullock, Johansson, etc. Again, you can find any number of American actors of Irish, Italian, French, Mexican, Swedish, etc. descent saying "I am Irish, Italian, French, Mexican, Swedish, etc.," especially if they're asked enough times. This also doesn't have anything to do with anything. It's common for Americans. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 09:27, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Indeed, language skills are mostly a separate matter. But you make a somewhat misfiring comparison. Italian-Americans and Irish-Americans tend to so identify even after many generations. But most groups do become just “American” - yes. But most of the many-generation people are only American citizens. I think if such a person identifies as of multiple cultures, that should br respected and mentioned in body text, but need not be highlighted. Now, to this debate: People with active legal dual citizenship’s, who self-identify with both, *should* have this mentioned. To do otherwise is to raise editorial judgment above the subject’s, and this seems wrong. It is not about *askibg* the subject, we don’t do that. But we should respect their cited statements. Why not?37.153.251.85 (talk) 10:21, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up that he's "only 25%" French, since that country does not have blood quantum laws. My tribe does and a person only has to be "25%" ancestry of my tribe to be an enrolled citizen. The facts are he's a citizen of France and America and has a relationship to both countries. It wouldn't be a NPOV for a Wikipedia editor to decide he doesn't have enough blood quantum for a country that does not use that method to define citizenship. He's legally a citizen of both, identifies as both which is clearly explained in the article and it's not up to you to say he's not enough of anything to identify as both. oncamera 10:39, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Chalamet is 50% French, anyway, and as Oncamera above says, this is hardly the point.31.149.229.2 (talk) 23:11, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

It's 25% French, since his paternal grandmother wasn't French, originally. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 13:19, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

BTW, why are we listing that ridiculous source to call him French-American? It's absurd to list someone as "X-American" in their intro because you found a source that calls them that. That's not how it works. You can find numerous sources (i.e. this one) that call Donald Trump "Scottish-American." Obviously, that doesn't mean he should be introduced as a "Scottish-American U.S. President" in the first sentence, no matter how many golf courses he builds in Scotland, as he has. Again, totally irrelevant to first sentence. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 13:24, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

And finally, where is the source that he "self-identifies" as French, as has repeatedly been claimed on here to support the first sentence? I've yet to see it. I assume it's not "I became the French version of myself," which isn't self-identification and obviously means he became something he wasn't (see also Natalie Portman, "I'm not black, but I know what it feels like"). Where is Chalamet saying, "I'm French," "I consider myself French," "I consider myself French and American,", etc.? All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 13:29, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

He's legally a French citizen and has publically included that in his life experiences. The end of this discussion for me. oncamera 01:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

So there's not even any evidence he's ever called himself "French" or "French-American"? This is nonsensical and it's based only on his name. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 05:49, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

"Un enfant (qu'il soit né en France ou à l'étranger) est français de naissance, c'est-à-dire par filiation, si au moins l'un de ses parents est français."^[1] Translation: A child (whether born in France or abroad) is French by birth, that is to say by descent if at least one of his parents is French. This is according to Art. 18 of the French Civil Code. And please notice the expression "by birth". This is the apparent status. And then, Chalamet mentioned holding French passport, thus enjoying the apparent status of French. According to Art. 30-2 of French Civil Code, "Nevertheless, when the source of the French nationality can only be in the filiation, it shall be deemed established, saving proof to the contrary, if the person concerned and the father or mother who was likely to transmit it to him have constantly enjoyed possession of the status of being a French national." (You can find this translated version that I used here.)^[2] Thus, from this point of view, unless one can reasonably challenge his French status by birth (eg. prove that he repudiated his French status according to Art. 18-1; or according to Art. 30-3, prove that his father has settled in the US for more than half a century, which cannot be proven), "it shall be deemed established", not the other way around.

This is different from claiming a random person to be French. For example, without a credible source, we cannot simply assume that his mother is French simply because she is eligible for French citizenship (by marriage); neither can we assume that his father is an immigrant to the US simply because he is eligible for U.S. permanent residency or citizenship. But Chalamet is a French passport holder born to a French parent. With his father being French, he is a French citizen by birth, the same way he is an American citizen by birth for being born in the United States. Unless we can prove otherwise, in my opinion, we should consider him to be a French citizen. If not, then we can go on to argue that the majority of the descriptions of citizenship on Wikipedia pages of personality are not reliable, because by that standard, there is no definitive proof of their citizenship either. People normally don't explicitly state or confirm what citizenship they hold.

It is true that a French passport itself cannot serve as a definitive proof of French citizenship, as it only establishes the presumption of it. However, similar to the presumption of innocence, where a person is considered innocent unless proven guilty, with him holding a French passport, he should be considered a French citizen unless proven otherwise.

Also, X-American refers to the typical idea of “hyphenated Americans” where they only have American citizenship and are only called so because of non-WASP heritage, and that is the reason people find the usage improper. In those cases, the hyphen theoretically should be dropped so that X would only serve as an adjective to “American” instead of being combined as an equal part. But holding dual citizenship is different here. Grace PatriciaC (talk) 16:00, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

And it's time to question this, too. The only reference for this appears to state that he has a French passport. But as the Wikipedia article on French passport states: "but not proof; the possession of a French passport only establishes the presumption of French citizenship according to French law." So what's the evidence that Chalamet even has French citizenship in the first place? We've entered the territory where this claim is not even supported by explicit proof, only the suggestion that it might be true. And it should be verified, given WP:NOR, WP:V, and WP:BLP. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 11:49, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

"Un enfant (qu'il soit né en France ou à l'étranger) est français de naissance, c'est-à-dire par filiation, si au moins l'un de ses parents est français."^[3] Translation: A child (whether born in France or abroad) is French by birth, that is to say by descent if at least one of his parents is French. This is according to Art. 18 of the French Civil Code. And please notice the expression "by birth". This is the apparent status. And then, Chalamet mentioned holding French passport, thus enjoying the apparent status of French. According to Art. 30-2 of French Civil Code, "Nevertheless, when the source of the French nationality can only be in the filiation, it shall be deemed established, saving proof to the contrary, if the person concerned and the father or mother who was likely to transmit it to him have constantly enjoyed possession of the status of being a French national." (You can find this translated version that I used here.)^[4] Thus, from this point of view, unless one can reasonably challenge his French status by birth (eg. prove that he repudiated his French status according to Art. 18-1; or according to Art. 30-3, prove that his father has settled in the US for more than half a century, which cannot be proven), "it shall be deemed established", not the other way around.

This is different from claiming a random person to be French. For example, without a credible source, we cannot simply assume that his mother is French simply because she is eligible for French citizenship (by marriage); neither can we assume that his father is an immigrant to the US simply because he is eligible for U.S. permanent residency or citizenship. But Chalamet is a French passport holder born to a French parent. With his father being French, he is a French citizen by birth, the same way he is an American citizen by birth for being born in the United States. Unless we can prove otherwise, in my opinion, we should consider him to be a French citizen. If not, then we can go on to argue that the majority of the descriptions of citizenship on Wikipedia pages of personality are not reliable, because by that standard, there is no definitive proof of their citizenship either. People normally don't explicitly state or confirm what citizenship they hold. Grace PatriciaC (talk) 08:39, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

I apologize for not mentioning this earlier: it is true that a French passport itself cannot serve as a definitive proof of French citizenship, as it only establishes the presumption of it. However, similar to the presumption of innocence, where a person is considered innocent unless proven guilty, with him holding a French passport, he should be considered a French citizen unless proven otherwise. Grace PatriciaC (talk) 15:14, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Also, another piece of information here. To quote this page from the website of the Consulate General of France in Los Angeles in English: “Proof of nationality: If you are in possession of a valid French passport, or a French passport that has been out of date for less than 5 years and is secure, or a valid French identity card (or out of date for less than 5 years), you do not have to otherwise justify your nationality. ”Grace PatriciaC (talk) 23:10, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Also, numerous major newspapers and magazines in France refer to him as "franco-américain" including in his French interviews. Simple google search of his name and that phrase will lead one to them rather than me pasting them all here. oncamera 19:56, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

I concur with this assessment as well. Furthermore, Marie Claire's Culture Editor's post has also described Timothee as having dual citizenship. - Wiki.0hlic ^(talk) 06:43, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

For the record, I think it's obvious that the Marie Claire post, which was published on July 13, was just information taken from this Wikipedia article, to which the dual citizenship statement was added on June 13 (with the same source that only mentions his passport). I tried to get it out in June, but I didn't try hard enough, so a more mainstream media source picked it up. That's how it goes. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 07:01, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Do you believe that citizenships acquired via jus sanguinis is somehow less important than citizenships acquired via jus soli?

Do you believe citizenships of France, Britain, Ireland or any other countries, EU or non-EU, are somehow less important than citizenship of the US?

Do you believe living in the US from birth to the age of three makes someone American more than living in France for two to three months per year makes someone French? Or should we not be the deciders on this question? Should we state the two citizenship that the subject acquired from birth without bias?

I personally find “American-born Irish actress” and “American-born British actor” more suitable as description for Ronan and Garfield, but I was able to benefit from the details in early life section, and made my own judgement thanks to the non-biased description.

I understand that due to strong immigrant culture (and the encouragement of assimilation and integration), people in the US do tend to consider citizens born in the US as “just American”. But nowadays many French people also think that no matter where a person was born, if he holds French citizenship, he is French. They would reject the idea of “French ethnicity”. People from elsewhere have their own standards. So do not decide for the readers with an American mindset. Not all readers of the English language Wikipedia are American. We have sources, so we put them in the citation. That’s it. Grace PatriciaC (talk) 13:47, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Can we stop talking about these sources? Sources can dictate the content of the article, but they don't dictate the first sentence or opening paragraphs. We choose what we put in there based on notability. There are hundreds of sources that call people "Italian-American," "Scottish-American," and so on. There are sources that call Chalamet "Jewish-American." None of this dictates what goes in the first sentence.

In any case

• Saoirse Ronan - born in U.S., raised in Ireland, acts in Ireland, the U.K., and the U.S.
• Andrew Garfield - born in U.S., raised in U.K., acts in U.K. and U.S.
• Chalamet - born, raised, and acts in U.S.

The fact that you brought these two cases up just infuriates me more, since they prove precisely that Chalamet shouldn't be called anything but American. Enough with this already. You are a single-purpose account that 'only' edits the topic of Chalamet being French. Stop. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 14:01, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Whatever my account does has nothing to do with the credibility of my edits. I used to make other edits but I’m in the middle of something and I don’t follow other pages these days. Stop using those articles that call Americans without Italian and Scottish nationality “Italian-American” or “Scottish-American” or “Jewish-American” solely based on ethnicity against articles that call people who stated that they have French and American passports “franco-americain”. And as I mentioned, French people are against the concept of French ethnicity anyway. Stop pretending that you don’t understand the difference.

Plus, is La Cinéfacture an American firm? Because that is one of the production companies of Call Me by Your Name. Is Angoulême an American city? Because that was where The French Dispatch was filmed. Also, are TF1 and TMC American channels and are their programs like Quotidien American? With the on-going globalization, my friend, to determine how American or non-American a person is in this way (where he or she works) is no longer accurate. His father could work in New York for years—but for Le Parisien and UNICEF in French. Grace PatriciaC (talk) 15:38, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

How much time spent in the US/EU under the age of 18 (or 12? or 16?) can make a person American/French/Irish/British enough to be described so in the opening sentence? When a person was born with more than one nationality, should the one acquired via jus soli deemed more important than others acquired via jus sanguinis? Like, Lily-Rose Depp was born in Paris and acquired American citizenship via jus sanguinis, does that make her more French than American? Or when the concept of “working in X” is brought in, how many US/EU productions does a person have to work in to be considered American/French/Italian enough? Also, François Ozon reported to be in conversation with Chalamet. Were such project to become a reality, does that make Chalamet more French?Anyway, how many percentages of investment from companies of a certain country can be considered enough? How many days of filming in that country is enough? How many lines in French/Italian/German/Spanish can be enough? How many French/Italian interviews do they have to take? Is there really a standard, or is it a personal perception?

Grace PatriciaC (talk) 17:23, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

So let’s be objective. We have proof, we have sources, and that’s why we described him “French-American” or “French and American”. Due to some users’ personal belief he is somehow not French enough to be called French in the opening sentence, but these standards are not universal and they don’t work with everyone. This group of editors keep making edits without thoroughly reading the sources and proving them to be wrong. I consider this kind of edits to be biased. Grace PatriciaC (talk) 17:33, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Single-purpose account, you've undermined your own point permanently by bringing up Ronan and Garfield. You should not have done that. I've nothing else to add. I'm just going to copy and paste these:

• Saoirse Ronan - born in U.S., raised in Ireland, acts in Ireland, the U.K., and the U.S.
• Andrew Garfield - born in U.S., raised in U.K., acts in U.K. and U.S.
• Chalamet - born, raised, and acts in U.S. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 01:21, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

It doesn’t matter whether my account has one or ten purposes. It doesn’t affect the quality of the edits that I do make. I used to make other edits, in more than one language, sometimes without logging in, but it has nothing to to with the topic here.

So let’s get things straight—

• Saoirse Ronan - Irish (jus sanguinis) and American (jus soli) by birth, raised in Ireland.
• Andrew Garfield - British (jus sanguinis) and American (jus soli) by birth, raised in U.K.
• Chalamet - French (jus sanguinis) and American (jus soli) by birth, raised in the U.S.

And now please define “act in”. Does it mean the location of filming, or the country of production, or whatever you have in mind?

Did Chalamet act in the U.S. when Call Me by Your Name was filmed in Italy, produced by companies from Italy, France, U.S. and Brazil? Did he act in the U.S. when The French Duspatch was filmed in Angoulême?Grace PatriciaC (talk) 06:39, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

I just came here to say if edit warring continues I will report. Enough! Stop disrupting this highly visible page with nonsense. Trillfendi (talk) 22:00, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Call Me by Your Name was produced by four countries and was filmed in Italy, not France. As for this page, it was just fine, calling Chalamet "American" like all other Americans for years, before single-issue editors showed up here about a year ago to push their agenda. The Ronan and Garfield comparison was the last straw. They should find a different single issue. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 23:12, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

This is what I am going to do: the same thing I did to Drake's article* which is put the primary citizenship only in the lead and both in the infobox so this inanity will end. See Scarlett Johansson for another prime example. And IF anybody returns to edit warring I'm immediately taking their asses to the Administrator's Noticeboard. I already had to have this page pending changes protected to begin with. And it won't be long before indefinite semi-protection will be required, at this rate.

*(when illiterate buffoons tried to claim... despite 151 years of constitutional precedence... that he couldn't have been born with American citizenship even though his father is American–when a cited source with quote (!) they refused to look at said clear as all hell "well, I'm a dual citizen!" The idiocy. smh) Trillfendi (talk) 20:17, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

FYI he is described as French-American (search for "franco-américain") in an article from this month on https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/hauts-de-france/azincourt-comment-film-roi-netflix-pietine-allegrement-realite-historique-1744495.html, which is a French public media.

In another article a few weeks ago, he is described as French-American: https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/21/timothee-chalamet-taking-break-acting-first-time-two-years-10959001/

When a person has dual-citizenship, there is no legal reason to decide to discard one. The dual-citizenship is noteworthy, as mentioned in national medias, and several appearances in French-speaking medias specifically. The odd debate on dual-citizenship can thus be resolved swiftly based on the latest sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.7.184.27 (talk) 08:42, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

KyleJoan, instead of writing passive-aggressive edit summaries, discuss why this version of the lead is worth edit-waring over this version. I don't see any sources in the body that corroborate your claim that he "gained wider recognition for his supporting roles in the coming-of-age film Lady Bird and the western Hostiles". Krimuk2.0 (talk) 08:30, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Gladly! Thanks for starting the discussion and for suggesting that I discuss my reverts. Since I was the person who reverted the bold changes made to the article, per WP:BRD, I guess the responsibilities fall upon me to do so. Here are my reasons:

• MOS:INTRO states: Editors should avoid lengthy paragraphs and overly specific descriptions – greater detail is saved for the body of the article. Chalamet's collaboration with Gerwig and Ronan are mentioned once in the body, so to annotate it in the lede would fall under the overly specific quality the guideline states.

As I said before, Hostiles is mentioned once in the body too. But your own logic doesn't seem to apply to that. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 09:07, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Did I not address that in the statement directly below? Also, you never explained why the two collabs warrant a mention in the lede. I'm explaining a whole lot here. Where are your explanations? KyleJoan^talk 09:45, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

You aren't explaining a thing. My explanations are brief and to the point. I still don't see any sources in the body that corroborate your claim that he "gained wider recognition for his supporting roles in the coming-of-age film Lady Bird and the western Hostiles". Simple. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 09:59, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

• Krimuk2.0 mentioned that . . . also by your logic, Hostiles is mentioned once in the body too, but that's okay to be in the lead. How does that add up? The statement referenced reads: In 2017, Chalamet gained wider recognition for his supporting roles in the coming-of-age film Lady Bird and the western Hostiles as well as for his lead role as Elio Perlman in Luca Guadagnino's romantic drama Call Me by Your Name. My interpretation of the statement is that the mention of Hostiles is to further detail how Chalamet achieved recognition in the year 2017 by annotating what films he starred in during that year, not that he gained recognition specifically or solely due to Hostiles, therefore, its mention in the lede in support of the year during which the recognition happened is not overly specific. I understand it could be worded more clearly, but as it stands, if the lede only mentions CMBYN for his 2017 credit due to it being his breakthrough role, then why bother mentioning any other films (i.e., The King, Little Women)?

By that logic, why not mention Hot Summer Nights, which also released in 2017? I don't understand this cherry-picking. CMBYN is the film that gained him awards and acclaim, which is why it has been highlighted both in the body (an entire paragraph is devoted to it as opposed a sentence each for LB and Hostiles) and the lead. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 09:07, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I completely agree! Why not mention it indeed? I believe the statement regarding his 2017 credits could afford to read something like: "In 2017, Chalamet gained wider recognition for his lead role as Elio Perlman in Luca Guadagnino's romantic drama Call Me by Your Name, after which he portrayed the lead role in the neo-noir coming-of-age crime drama Hot Summer Nights as well as supporting roles in the coming-of-age film Lady Bird and the western Hostiles. KyleJoan^talk 09:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

• Krimuk.20 also stated: There are plenty of THR reviews, we don't need one more . . . in support of their removing a sourced statement regarding a positive review of Chalamet's performance. I'm having trouble finding the guideline that states that too many citations of one reliable source is discouraged, so if anyone could refer me to that, I'd appreciate it.

Why should a "guideline" have to mention something as basic as that. If there are already two THR reviews in the article, find a different one. There are reliable sources apart from Variety and THR, who publish reviews, so I fail to understand this THR obsession other than a need to make a point. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 09:07, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Why should a "guideline" have to mention something as basic as that. Are you admitting that your editing activities don't adhere to guidelines? There are reliable sources apart from Variety and THR, who publish reviews, so I fail to understand this THR obsession other than a need to make a point. To recap: You removed the existing THR citation, so who's really obsessed with THR here? And you are correct. The point is to support every statement with enough citations to make it verifiable per WP:V. KyleJoan^talk 09:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Please read WP:COMMONSENSE. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 09:53, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, all! KyleJoan^talk 08:48, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I'd also like to raise a point about this edit, which Krimuk2.0 summarized as: Two reviews cannot be used to make a definite statement about all critics; restore As of right now, one review praised the chemistry statement, so how notable is said chemistry? I've seen more reviews praising Chalamet's performance without any mention of this chemistry. In my opinion, as it stands, it doesn't really adhere to WP:UNDUE. Thoughts? KyleJoan^talk 09:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I'll wait for other editors to weigh in because it's impossible to engage with someone who refuses to see merit in anything that's not their own preference. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 09:48, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

This edit request to Timothée Chalamet has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

92.184.107.127 (talk) 15:15, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Change american actor to amercian and french actor

NO! We have been through this enough. All that does is cause disruption on here. It will be left the way it is. Trillfendi (talk) 15:20, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Please change age 23 to 24 Sarah Philip (talk) 19:26, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

His birthday is not until 3 days from now. When that day comes, the template will automatically update his age. Trillfendi (talk) 19:30, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

to reject part of one's identity is racism. with us in France, Thimothée Chalamet is French, more precisely French-American.--81.64.12.21 (talk) 22:22, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Please read MOS:CONTEXTBIO, particularly "unless it is relevant to the subject's notability". The actor's paternal origin and his growing up is explained in the article's body of text (including "and I even dreamed in French"). This is, no doubt, an interesting background, yet so far it has at most glanced his professional work, and his French background or even citizenship are not relevant to his notability. Moreover, please be more careful with accusations such as that of racism. ---Sluzzelin talk 22:30, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Nationality french and américain = actor french-american !--81.64.12.21 (talk) 22:41, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Eh les américains ou anglo-saxons, on sait tous en France que vous êtes bêtes comme vos lois d’ailleurs, mais concentrez vous un peu. Chez nous en France, nous avons nos lois, et l’une d’elle c’est le droit du sang (ius sanguinis). Thimothée Chalamet est né d’un père français, ce qui lui vaut d’avoir la nationalité française également. D’ailleurs sur notre page en français, nous mettons sa nationalité française en premier. Dans nos médias, on le qualifie d’acteur français ou franco-américain.

Cordialement et au bonheur de ne pas être américain pour ma part.--81.64.12.21 (talk) 22:34, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

(posting in English as this is en.wikipedia.org). Again, no one is disputing Chalamet's French heritage. It's not his defining feature, however, as it is entirely irrelevant to his notability as an actor in English speaking films. Nothing to do with "American", everything to do with how en.wikipedia (not american.wikipedia) currently chooses to emphasise a person's citizenships/nationalities/origins. No one here is telling you how and where to mention this on fr.wikipedia either. ---Sluzzelin talk 22:44, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

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You should add it, as Chalamet mentioned her in a youtube video in which he is asked how his friends helped him achieve his dream.

His career was also inspired by his long-time best friend Martina Gobert, who also attended the William T. Sherman school. Emmaanderson12 (talk) 17:03, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 19:03, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

This is an example I'm talking about. In this video (wish I could find the original source but for now oh well) you hear him say «Sortie à Paris? Enchanté, Timothée.», name said with original French accent. So as to delineate that when he speaks French he says his name the "real" way. In English, we know he prefers Timothy. ⌚️ (talk) 02:02, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

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Commonly referred to as 'Tiny Tim', his childhood best friend Sophie Manley grew up with him as his next door neighbor. The two have sparked dating rumors since late 2019, but neither of them have confirmed or denied it. Itsjustmesochill (talk) 11:32, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

@Itsjustmesochill:  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. GoingBatty (talk) 15:18, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Those darn kids will never learn -Gouleg (Talk • Contribs) 22:59, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

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Change the main picture from the original to

Petedavidson (talk) 02:42, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Image found on https://www.purewow.com/news/timothee-chalamet-hair-evolution, not your own work or any evidence of free-use. ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 02:53, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Can I ask why Timothee's agent is included on this page? I haven't seen other pages that have agents names on --80.3.28.105 (talk) 13:11, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

@80.3.28.105: Hi there, from what I've gathered looking through archived messages at WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers, it looks like unless the agency marks a significant milestone or turning point in the actor's career, it is not necessary. I would like to reach a consensus based on what other editors think (request for comment). Breadyornot (talk) 05:47, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

How exactly does it hurt an encyclopedia having the correct information, provided gratuitously by a reliable source, with a working parameter for it, when many people are prone to believe he is signed to a larger agency like CAA or WME. There’s nothing “significant” about an infobox, the space that holds basic biographical information at a glance. Trillfendi (talk) 06:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

@Trillfendi: Good point! I think it does add without any apparent advertising or promotion. Breadyornot (talk) 20:48, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

I know it seems petty but I wish his French nationality was brought up in the first sentence. Like “French-American” or “American-French”. Because I know that’s a key part of who he is. RiverChail (talk) 19:53, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

@RiverChail: It was causing too much disruption to the article with people arguing about it so it’s best to leave it out for now, unless there is a Request for Comment about it. Trillfendi (talk) 20:29, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

@RiverChail: I would second this edit, if only because the French version of his biography states so - consistency of information across languages seem desirable? e_mln_e (talk), 9 September 2020

@Trillfendi: I guess this was a request to comment about it. I don't understand Wikipedia policy. Is wikipedia based on proven facts or on the false thinking of the most active and fierce members ? 2A01:E0A:1DA:3530:4D25:B67A:AD3:3467 (talk) 10:21, 3 October 2020 (UTC) Anonymous

@E mln e: I don't think adding "French" in his lede would be relevant to him. He's born and raised in America and is most notable for being in American/Hollywood productions. Sure, he has French citizenship, but there's many other American celebs who have dual citizenship to other countries, but only get described as being "American" in their lede because their second citizenship isn't relevant to their notoriety. Like Scarlett Johansson, Kristen Dunst and although she's not American, Avril Lavigne, whose Canadian born and raised but also got dual French citizenship in 2011. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 04:24, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, sources usually point out he is French American (for instance, it's even the first thing mentioned in this Vogue article), why don't we follow them? I don't get why Wikipedians' feelings of what should be used is better than the relevant and authoritative sources. Is there any real argument so as not to follow the sources, other than Wikipedians' opinions and disputes? Huiva (talk) 23:58, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Huiva - As already mentioned, Lily was born and mostly raised in France. Also, if it's worth mentioning, her article mentions that she divides her time between Los Angeles, U.S and Paris, France. She even gave an interview in September 2019 near her mothers apartment in Paris.. Chalamet was born and raised primarily in America and the U.S is where he primarily resides unless reliable sources prove otherwise. Ultimately, due to MOS:ETHNICITY, I don't think him being French is relevant to his lede. His article and infobox mention his dual citizenship and family. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 19:54, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Plus, to answer to the opinion expressed above, when an actor or actress has both French and American parents, French American has been used in Wikipédia, see Lily-Rose Depp. Chalamet speaks French and has spent part of his childhood in France I seem to recall. We have the sources, plus several clear indications that's relevant to him (he speaks the language and has a French father). What else do we need? Huiva (talk) 00:04, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Lily-Rose Depp was born in France, where she was mostly raised and where even her American father lived. Pretty much shows the difference right there. (PS, there is no standard rule for people with French and American parents). All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 14:37, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

He has advertised his French heritage on many occasions. This is informative and should be mentioned. It’s part of his identity. Péaditing (talk) 19:22, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Did Chalamet begin his career in musical theatre? KyleJoan^talk 08:24, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

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Timothée Chalamet is currently married to Jolie Felix. They were engaged since December 9, 2020 and got married very shortly after on December 27, 2020, his 25th birthday. They currently reside in a penthouse on the Westside of Manhattan and live with their pet pig, pigglemeister, and their cat, bon bon. Jolie Felix is a very smart student, as she graduated high school at 16 years old and got into Columbia University in 2015. She's working on her PhD and is a psychiatrist in NYC. Jolie 006 (talk) 02:11, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:24, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

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change "Marc is from Nîmes and is of a Protestant Christian background" to just "Marc is from Nîmes" 49.207.142.136 (talk) 11:22, 22 July 2021 (UTC) The article provided as citation makes no reference to the religious background or beliefs of Timothee Chalamet or his father Marc chalamet, this seems to be rather dubious and is not supported by any reference.

Marc Chalamet's father was a Protestant minister so… there's nothing "dubious" about what his religious upbringing was. Trillfendi (talk) 13:28, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Can anyone provide the quote of Luca Guadagnino affirming the cancellation of the Call Me by Your Name sequel? I haven't been able to find it. KyleJoan^talk 01:03, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

He never said anything about canceling the sequel, he said his priority is his current filming schedule and upcoming projects stateside. People are jumping to conclusions. Trillfendi (talk) 01:46, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I commend your initiating the discussion on this which has been edit-warred over for some time, but this is a weird interpretation of WP:CRYSTAL. The gist of that policy is, if you don't know for certain if something is going to happen, don't say it'll happen. Projects are reported or announced and then shelved forever without fanfare all the time because of scheduling conflicts, because the money didn't come through, etc. etc. That's why we have WP:NFF and WP:FILMOGRAPHY. There's nothing wrong with reporting casting news, but the repeated use of "will" in the "Upcoming projects" section is highly inappropriate for films and plays whose production has not begun. Just say "he's been cast" and leave it at that. Nardog (talk) 02:55, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Which part was a weird interpretation? I simply quoted CRYSTAL. Never once did the dispute involve the word "will", so this is news to me. I've reorganized and copyedited the section accordingly. How does it look now? KyleJoan^talk 03:13, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, you reinstated "He will star in Find Me...", which I found incongruous with the policy for the reason I just explained. But thank you for the copyedit, it looks good to me. Nardog (talk) 04:29, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Another case of WP:OWN. The director has moved away from developing this project whose "meetings" have been canceled due to the pandemic. Yet, this user insists on showing Find Me in "upcoming projects" as a project that will definitely be released in the future. ภץאคгöร 13:01, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

FWIW I don't think it's unreasonable to mention the sequel is unlikely to be moving forward anytime soon, perhaps citing Deadline. Nardog (talk) 21:47, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

What is considered "soon"? The article does not mention a time window in which Find Me would be released, so any expectation for the film to enter production *soon* is not for this article to rectify because it was never based on any material here. The section does not encompass a specific timeframe (i.e., have a cutoff), so a film remains an upcoming project despite how much time passes before it enters production. KyleJoan^talk 01:34, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Similarly to Anya Taylor Joy, I think the article has been split prematurely per WP:SIZE - the article's readable prose is 26,276 bytes, well below WP:TOOBIG criteria and its "length alone does not justify division" at the moment. It might have to be re-split in the future, but I'd say that falls under WP:CRYSTALBALL. The content of the page would be perfectly readable and digestable within a section of its parent article as is.--Bettydaisies (talk) 20:28, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support TOOBIG is clearly not met. KyleJoan^talk 02:41, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom. - Brojam (talk) 14:51, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
• Support. This is central information about an actor. It belongs in the main article if at all feasible. /Julle (talk) 00:20, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
• Support. It's only 20 odd films and a few tv appearances so far, cmon. Also, if the lengthy bits of prose which often just re-hash what's in the table can be trimmed, I'd be for that too. EditorInTheRye (talk) 06:47, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
•  Done Per clear consensus after two months.--Bettydaisies (talk) 19:02, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

In the 2017 - Breakthrough section of the article the following claim is made: "He did not promote the film, although it ironically became the number one film in the world (outside of the United States where it was not distributed)." A link to a Guardian article about Woody Allen is made, however in that article there is no reference to this. If there is one in a different article/newspage etc, it should be changed to reflect that & also include the time period in which this was verified, as well as to make it (of course) clearer in the sentence that ticket sales/revenue is referenced ("number one film in the world" is very simplistic). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:587:3230:82af:903:c702:9335:d2b5 (talk) 00:40, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

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Change the word "Interstellar" in the second paragraph of "Career->2008–2016: Early roles and acting background" to have a hyperlink to the movie. Rocknamedtim (talk) 07:13, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: A link only needs to appear once in the body of an article per MOS:DL, and Interstellar (film) is already linked in the "early life" section. KyleJoan^talk 09:23, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

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Add a line to the "Upcoming projects" paragraph in the "Career" section stating that Chalamet is set to reprise his role as Paul Atreides in the now-confirmed Dune Part II. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/dune-2-greenlit-movie-release-date-1235036655/ TheDL (talk) 21:30, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done — Film Enthusiast^✉ 02:17, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

‘Is a French-American actor’ 18jiwook (talk) 01:20, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

@18jiwook: Editors have previously decided not to put French-American actor in the lead. Trillfendi (talk) 18:02, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

I don't get why though? Even for his sister it's labeled as French-American and similar to Damien Chazelle who's probably spent less time in France than Timothee... 18jiwook (talk) 12:27, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Indeed he is french and american. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Henriooo (talk • contribs) 06:06, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

• support. don't get this notion that he's only american. when did wiki become so jingoistic?Belevalo (talk) 01:33, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Belevalo: They also won’t call Natalie Portman Israeli-American. Trillfendi (talk) 01:45, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

They literally do on her wiki-page. 18jiwook (talk) 12:28, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Is there some francophobic/xenophobic reasons why authors refuse to admit Timothée Chalamet is French-American? He holds both citizenship. Occi31000 (talk) 13:33, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

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Timothee Chalamet is 26 not 25 in line with being born in 1995 2A00:23C8:C04:4800:50C8:A54D:B506:2144 (talk) 13:48, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

 Already done This will automatically update through template magic. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:51, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

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Timotheesgff (talk) 11:09, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

And he is also known from the new Dune movie [2021] playing the primary protagonist role named Paul Atreides.

/* I want to add more to what the artist have accomplished*/ Timotheesgff (talk) 11:13, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Nardog (talk) 12:35, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

"In 2021, he starred as the lead role of Paul Atreides in Denis Villeneuve's epic science fiction film Dune and in the ensemble cast of Wes Anderson's The French Dispatch." Wes Anderson made a movie with Paul Atreides in it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8084:C84:1B80:F062:D2FB:1B6A:D653 (talk) 09:42, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Not sure what part of the sentence made you come to that conclusion. It clearly states that he played Paul in Villeneuve's Dune and was in the ensemble cast of Wes Anderson's film, The French Dispatch. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 09:46, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

I understood what you were saying. Edited to fix the ambiguity. EliotWL (talk) 11:21, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 September 2019 and 11 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Aramirez143.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:20, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

Timothée is not an american actor but an french-American actor.

Someone for update ?

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by SwaxawS (talk • contribs) 10:31, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Timothée hal chalamet is currently dating a Belgian girl called Jana. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jqnavdw (talk • contribs) 13:42, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

The current picture of Timothée is quite old as it’s from 5 years ago, it could do with an update! Perhaps his 2022 Oscar’s look? 2A02:C7F:C8D:C100:BCBF:E1B8:8EB1:AD21 (talk) 22:16, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

If there is a freely available recent image that does not violate copyright laws then we could use that. If not, we will have to continue using a semi-old photo. Trillfendi (talk) 18:49, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

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There is a small error at the beginning, timothée chalamé has French and American nationality, it would be wise to mark "is an Franco-American Actor" instead of just "is an American actor" 2A01:E0A:35A:B860:904F:F79B:2A2A:9986 (talk) 22:26, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: This is actually a controversial edit, so you'll need to discuss first with other editors. Please open a new section here and start a discussion. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:39, 4 June 2022 (UTC)