Talk:Trolling/Archive 3

This edit request to Internet troll has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Done KieranTribe 14:27, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

In the examples section of the article, I would like to propose the addition of sock puppetry as a specific trolling methodology, domain of thought and operation. Trolling and sock puppetry indeed have complementary features, and the terms are mostly used reversibly, as exemplified by this article. In providing a "definitive" (i.e. tentative) definition of sock puppetry on the trolling Wikipedia page, I hope to clarify any misgivings as to the former -- its area of operation being assuredly more politically and ideologically driven than that of the average troll.

This terminological clarification should help resolve what sock puppet agency wishes to specifically accomplish by borrowing from the troll's toolbox. See, for instance: https://philesofculture.wordpress.com/2015/06/07/culture-jamming-and-the-lulz-from-subcultural-trolls-to-propaganda-machines/, http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2012/10/china%E2%80%99s-paid-trolls-meet-50-cent-party, where sock puppetry is implied but left unnamed.

Therefore, the proposed addition would take the following form: in the Corporate, political, and special interest sponsored trolls section, please change "Teams of sponsored trolls swarm a site to overwhelm any honest discourse and denigrate any who disagree with them." to "Teams of sponsored trolls, sometimes referred to as sockpuppet armies^[1][2], swarm a site to overwhelm any honest discourse and denigrate any who disagree with them." Sockpuppetdude (talk) 16:58, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Isn't this is a WP:COI? ;) KieranTribe 14:20, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

I limited my edits to date to adding an on-point Usenet reference to support a section of the text and moving another Usenet reference to the portion of the text that it directly supports. I don't see any reason to expand the section itself, but others may disagree. I think the talk page is an appropriate place for me to point at some additional resources I found that others may use if they disagree with me and believe the section should be expanded.

Here are some observations from alt.folklore.urban in the 1990-1992 period that can be replicated easily by anyone who chooses to do so. (Text searches on Internet archives are very easy to do):
1) It is clear that the behavior in question (what came to be called "trolling for newbies") was associated with fishing metaphors including "baited hooks" through this period. For example, see the following posts from 1991:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.urban/xd5abf4bhiY/OyIxuf-rozoJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.urban/_FhKdGxG6Rs/9JM5B4gPtu8J
2) There are several mentions of trolls in alt.folklore.urban through the period from 1990 until October 8, 1992, but they are either references to Norwegian folklore (with humorous comparisons to one poster's husband), or a reference to another poster's Usenet nickname. For example:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.urban/sD_W1Q8Wi0o/AxP7a215UGsJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.urban/MOX8D7nWTmA/O6YBzwdTADoJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.urban/j0UHsLN0qV8/a42QGFqEW-EJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.urban/wxpg6P27R2U/zdhWughzjLwJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.urban/HHoubwmlVhE/SNMLtyuBo80J
In my opinion, these are not germane to this topic, but others may disagree, and they will show up in text searches of the newsgroup's archives for the period in question.
3) The first mention of "trolling for newbies" in the sense outlined in the text of the current "Origin and etymology" section is found in this post from October 2, 1992, though there is continuity with the fishing metaphors (like those mentioned in #1 above).
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.urban/E26iaSme1t0/mnZfdqUeM9oJ
Additional posts from October 9:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.urban/iNal2CeYkSw/7Mwdly7upPkJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.urban/9gXNdotYPVc/_qZCIXYd734J
LuckyFlamingo (talk) 00:14, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

I would like to ask that an example of Astroturfing in this section be reconsidered.

In the first paragraph, after a description of Astroturfing by Sharyl Attkison, the following sentences were provided as an example, "A 2012 Pew Center on the States presentation on Effective Messaging included two examples of social media posts by a recently launched "rapid response team" dedicated to promoting fluoridation of community water supplies. That same presentation also emphasized changing the topic of conversation as a winning strategy."

According to Sharyl Attkisson's TED Talk, "Astroturf is when political, corporate, or other special interests disguise themselves and publish blogs, start Facebook and Twitter accounts, publish ads, and Letters to the Editor, or simply post comments online to try to fool you into thinking an independent or grassroots movement is speaking. The whole point of astroturf is to try to give an impression there's widespread support *for or against* an agenda when there's not. Astroturf seeks to manipulate you into changing your opinion, by making you feel as if you're an outlier when you're not."

There is nothing in Sharyl Attkisson's description of "Astroturf" that can be applied to the fluoridation rapid response team (RTT).

The fluoridation RRT was formed entirely by volunteers to try and counter the unchecked avalanche of anti-fluoridation propaganda that was posted - mostly unanswered - on any news article, letter to the editor or comment section that mentioned the words fluoride or fluoridation.

Members of the RRT did not disguise themselves in an attempt to fool anyone into believing there was a false grassroots pro-fluoridation movement. They always addressed specific disingenuous (mostly unsupported) claims made by the fluoridation opponents with specific citations of published documents.

If, "The whole point of astroturf is to try to give an impression there's widespread support *for or against* an agenda when there's not." then the RTT can't possibly be an example of astoturf. The scientific consensus continues to support fluoridation as a safe and effective public health measure after 70 years and thousands of studies, over 100 national and international health and scientific organizations publically recognize the health benefit of fluoridation for preventing dental decay, and there are no such organizations I am aware of that support the anti-fluoridation agenda. The Fluoride Action Network has collected about 5,000 signatures on their "Professionals Statement to End Water Fluoridation" page. That is a small fraction of the medical, dental, scientific and environmental professionals in the world and would hardly constitute widespread support of the anti-F agenda. Vocal, yes -- widespread, no. http://ada.org/en/public-programs/advocating-for-the-public/fluoride-and-fluoridation/fluoridation-facts/fluoridation-facts-compendium http://Ilikemyteeth.org/fluoridation/why-fluoride/ fluoridealert(dot)org/researchers/professionals-statement/ - blocked

The fluoridation RTT does not try and manipulate anyone into changing their opinion by making them feel as though they are an outlier, they simply counter anti-F propaganda.

The anti-F groups fit Sharyl Attkisson's description of Astroturf far better than the fluoridation RTT. Read the websites:

fluoridealert(dot)org/ - blocked

https://www.facebook.com/New-York-State-Coalition-Opposed-to-Fluoridation-Inc-252199261811/

www(dot)nofluoride(dot)com/ - blocked

http://australianfluorideaction.com/

http://fluoridefree.org.nz/

http:// newstarget.com/2016-07-28-you-have-been-lied-to-about-fluoride.html The safety and “benefits” of fluoride are indeed just a massive lie. Supposedly, it helps prevent tooth decay. But did you know before fluoride was added to the water supply, it was used as rat poison?

Search Google or Bing News for fluoride or fluoridation and see whether fluoridation supporters or opponents fit the definition of astroturf.

https://www.google.com/#q=fluoride&tbm=nws

https://www.google.com/#q=fluoridation&tbm=nws

http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=fluoride

http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=fluoridation

I am not sure how this process of requesting a change works.

Please contact me if additional information is needed.

Randy Johnson randy@cyber-nook.com

R2Johnson (talk) 06:11, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

This edit request to Internet troll has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The definition is wrong, it is enabling this behavior. The act of trolling is when someone is not intelligent enough to have a conversation on topic and results to random things they have seen online in order to seem superior. Very pathetic and a complete waste of time reading anything posted by someone who is trying or claiming to troll. If the definition was to reflect this fact in the actual negative light it is we would see less of this type of behavior. Therealdestroyer (talk) 13:30, 10 September 2016 (UTC)  Not done You need to make an actual request to have something in the article changed, not jst make random observations- however insightful they may be. _Muffled ^Pocketed 13:32, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

There is an "International journal of internet trolling and online participation". Worth a mention? The editor of the journal has had COI issues on Wikipedia, at WP:COIN#Character_theory_.28media.29 but the journal is real. Take a look. John Nagle (talk) 19:04, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Stuff like that should only be mentioned if independent reliable sources have given it serious acknowledgement. There are a lot of websites with commentary on trolling. Johnuniq (talk) 23:15, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Currently is says troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

The part before the first comma is a problem. "sowing discord" can't be called trolling: what if this is a controversial topic, and people are, say 70/30% split? So this automatically makes 30% trolls, because they will "upset" 70% by just expressing their legitimate opinion. This doesn't make sense. Also how is "starting argument" appropriate? Ex. one of these 30% of participants says something that he truly believes, and others will react in a fashion of a vehement disagreement. So this original poster will automatically become a troll, because the argument started from his OP. This also doesn't make sense.

Definition should say Troll is a person who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) primarily with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response, or otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. Yurivict (talk) 00:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

No, because, in your example, the 30% are not acting with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. Their intent is to make relevant points. N4m3 (talk) 00:18, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Intent is not operational, that is, there is no reliable test of intent, not even asking someone what their intent is, nor asking experts in psychotherapy what their intent is. So you are claiming there can be a correct versus incorrect way to use a subjective slang term. That is wrong. See section on correct vs. incorrect use of term below, the example above is one of many errors in this article that make it badly POV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.11.95.94 (talk) 20:39, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Trolls intend to irritate, and they can get others to respond with attacks on the real or imagined race, religion, ethnicity, and sexual identity of users. Trolls expect people to defend themselves -- but incompetently. It is easy for someone trolled to assume that someone making base charges against others can be shamed on something like Holocaust denial, but the troll usually has the choice of abandoning the effort.Pbrower2a (talk) 22:57, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

"After Donald Trump's election as U.S. president, while hosting Saturday Night Live, Dave Chapelle said "America has done it. We’ve actually elected an internet troll as our president.”^[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.143.194.73 (talk) 17:58, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

The "concern troll" section has multiple examples, all examples of alleged American right concern-trolling of the left. That seems rather parochial, given that this happens outside of the right, outside of politics (occasionally), and outside of America. (In fact, I'm not sure that I'd heard of a right-left example prior to reading this article.) I don't want to singlehandedly rewrite a section of a protect article, though, so I'd like some feedback on this. Calbaer (talk) 20:23, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I do think this may not be to NPOV standards, however, it is an example and may be able to stay. RES2773 (talk) 21:32, 3 October 2015 (UTC)RES2773

As a person who was actually trolled by Bass's staffer I haven't edited and won't edit the article, but I'm happy to explain why that example is probably here. In that case the trolling became a major campaign issue, generating many national press articles, coming up in the debates, and hurting Bass in the polls. It was covered by the New York Times, the Washington Post, TV News, CNN, the Associated Press and many other outlets. Coming in 2006, it probably also marks the first time the general public was exposed to the practice of concern-trolling. It is also the first known example of someone of import being fired for concern-trolling. So I think if we're talking about the genesis and history of the term, it belongs here. I agree that this is a practice that spans both left and right, and it would be a better article if someone could complement the Bass example with a example of similar prominence with similar ramifications of someone concern-trolling someone on the right. Another measure might be to bulk up the references on the incident, this cites AP and WMUR but there were other high profile references that could be sourced to show its prominence more clearly. The fact that Furtado was fired for it could also be added to more clearly show its historical significance. --Michaelacaulfield (talk) 17:45, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

It can be made more neutral by removing the last sentence:"Hodes eventually won the election." This appears like gloating that the troll got his comeuppance, and is not needed. Supporting or being against trolling is not required to explain what its practice involves. QuentinUK (talk) 09:59, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

@QuentinUK: I do not think that it looks "like gloating that the troll got his comeuppance"; I think it looks like a fact about the election outcome. I think the political trolling by the Bass staffer is comparable to other campaign techniques, e.g. asking questions on a radio call-in show or writing an op-ed without disclosing a link to a political opponent – its just different technology used to achieve the same goal. I think the section could be improved with content like Michaelacaulfield describes above or a study (in a journal or book) about how effective it was in that campaign or how effective it is currently. –BoBoMisiu (talk) 14:22, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

It does seem a bit partisan. Perhaps we should add a few more examples to balance it a little. TheDracologist (talk) 08:25, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

The section doesn't even reflect the actual origins of the phrase, it should be redone completely. Especially since the phrase was originally used to against left leaning folk, but it exclusively uses examples against conservatives.

Is there actually any way to generate a discussion about the example in the "Corporate, political, and special interest sponsored trolls" that disingenuously describes the "rapid response team" dedicated to promoting fluoridation of community water supplies as a team of sponsored trolls, sometimes referred to as sockpuppet armies, that swarms a site to overwhelm any honest discourse and denigrate any who disagree with them.

As I described in my previous post, the designation of "trolls" and "sockpuppet armies" applies to the action of fluoridation opponents rather than to those who attempt to provide the evidence that supports the scientific consensus.

Who is responsible for posting and reviewing this content? I have seen nothing in this discussion session to indicate that anyone is reviewing this comment/request.

I can be contacted at randy@cyber-nook.com if further discussion is necessary.

  Randy JohnsonR2Johnson (talk) 15:38, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Wikiuser1532 (talk) 09:49, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Internet troll. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131102001807/http://gawker.com/5506453/trolling-the-today-show-explores-the-dark-side-of-the-internet to http://gawker.com/5506453/trolling-the-today-show-explores-the-dark-side-of-the-internet

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:12, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

"Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore it, because responding tends to encourage trolls to continue disruptive posts – hence the often-seen warning: "Please do not feed the trolls"."

While this sounds perfectly plausible, there appears to be no source whatsoever to support it. This sentence has actually had a "citation needed" tag sitting in it for five years now, commented as follows:

"It is commonly said to be the most effective way, but are there any studies, or only anecdotes?"

Are there? If not, this is original research or possibly a guidebook for how to deal with trolls. Neither one belongs in a Wikipedia article. And after five years, this should really be removed if nobody has come up with reliable sources by now. Be welcome to put it back in with proper sources. --93.212.229.181 (talk) 13:00, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

This book can probably help you clean up the article: . --Jayron32 13:04, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

I can't do any cleaning up here at all. The article is protected.

I am actually a bit surprised about this book turning up within seconds of my post, considering this tag has been sitting in there for a total of five years... --93.212.229.181 (talk) 13:13, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

If you registered an account, there's nothing to stop you from fixing it. --Jayron32 13:15, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Neither has anything been stopping you from fixing it, since you apparently knew of this book's existence.

And the question if I want or need to register an account, and why or why not, is not a matter of discussion on this talk page. --93.212.229.181 (talk) 14:59, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

I didn't know of the book's existence. I saw you ask this question, and I did a Google search to find it. Wikipedia works only because people who want to see better articles do the work to fix them. If you want to see this article improved, you're in the best position to fix it. Demanding that others do things you could do yourself isn't how this works. You don't have to fix it, of course, but then you lose all right to complain that it isn't fixed. I'm not particularly concerned one way or the other myself, the statement as it is written now doesn't really bother me. If it bothers you, you can fix it. --Jayron32 16:20, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

This edit request to Internet troll has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The link to "cybermentors.org.uk" should be removed as it appears to point to a new website now and has no relation to cyber bullying support 82.24.248.210 (talk) 16:35, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Done — IVORK _Discuss 17:50, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

This edit request to Internet troll has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Some Facebook page moderators don't tolerate the disruptive and/or of a incendiary nature of vile, hateful, profane, and/or insulting comments that contribute nothing to the conversations about the topic. The moderators and many Facebook page participants have a low opinion of these 'trolls.' Often they will block those identities from further discussions of their Facebook pages to maintain what the moderator feels is civil discussion of contentious topics. One moderator calls internet trolls poleicists. The moderator is singer, songwriter and author, Ms. Janis Ian, and she defined a poleicist in her Godzilla Haiku #1,113 as: "A polemicist? That's just a two dollar word for a ten cent troll."^[1] RiHenSullJr (talk) 13:52, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I am not sure what you want changed in the article. If you really are asking for a change please follow these directions: "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". ~ GB fan 13:57, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I have been called a troll on some internet forums because my personality and opinions are at direct odds with some communities at large. However my posts are not made with the intention of riling anyone up. So I want to make sure but does trolling require malicious intent? Xanikk999 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:43, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Internet troll. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100404062645/http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1034842/internet-without-laws-a-recipe-for-anarchy to http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1034842/internet-without-laws-a-recipe-for-anarchy
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121212104445/http://www.computing.dundee.ac.uk/staff/wmoncur/publications/Omega2011.pdf to http://www.computing.dundee.ac.uk/staff/wmoncur/publications/Omega2011.pdf
• Added archive https://archive.is/20051013070429/http://rkcsi.indiana.edu/archive/CSI/WP/WP02-03B.html to http://rkcsi.indiana.edu/archive/CSI/WP/WP02-03B.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:25, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Internet troll. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160501042255/http://trollingacademy.org/ to http://www.trollingacademy.org/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:42, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

I suggest for experienced wiki users to add the well known troll image to this post. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.236.48.194 (talk) 07:40, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

This edit request to Internet troll has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Chuu (厨) is used to refer to trolls (noun), originating from a pun on the homophones chuubou (中坊, middle-school student) and chuubou (厨房, kitchen knife). "厨とは (チュウとは) [単語記事] - ニコニコ大百科" (in Japanese). Straylemon (talk) 02:56, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Spintendo ᔦᔭ 11:15, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

I thought trolls were also the ones that seek attention from other users, so they can provoke them even more. 213.149.61.25 (talk) 20:18, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

The article is generally weak, but the definition part may be one of the weakest aspects. I think it should actually be regarded as a multidimensional concept, and some trolls may score highly in some dimensions rather than others. Hostility, intellectual dishonesty, and rudeness do seem to be important aspects of most trolls. I actually wish the article addressed the problems more clearly (where I think the main problem is how much of other people's time they waste) and linked to solutions (where I think the best one would be the display of earned public reputation to allow better filtering). Having said that, the article mostly needs links to outside sources to be improved, and I can't point to much... Shanen (talk) 00:12, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Internet troll. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140304112518/http://ragecomics.com/c/64kp/accidental-troll-mom-rage to http://ragecomics.com/c/64kp/accidental-troll-mom-rage
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130517004608/http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20060927%2FREPOSITORY%2F609270353 to http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20060927%2FREPOSITORY%2F609270353
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081123085700/http://www.wmur.com/politics/9936715/detail.html to http://www.wmur.com/politics/9936715/detail.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090218152929/http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2006/10/political_pieti.html to http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2006/10/political_pieti.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100821232014/http://community.foxsports.com/dwilliams/blog/2007/10/25/how_to_be_a_great_internet_troll to http://community.foxsports.com/dwilliams/blog/2007/10/25/how_to_be_a_great_internet_troll

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:07, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

I plan to add to this article, information on racial trolling, societal trolling, online trust, and theoretical perspectives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaitlin.hurley (talk • contribs) 15:48, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

It's really surprising that there is no mention of the Tone fallacy in the Concern Trolling section. Concern trolling is a classic example of the tone fallacy when it is used to evade the point a person is making (the content) by complaining about its presentation/packaging. The section also appears to negate that definition of concern trolling, in favor of astroturfing. Classic concern trolling is hardly uncommon. It is one of the more common tactics used in Internet forums, especially be "established senior members" who masquerade as seasoned voices of reason but who are often narcissists whose narcissism expresses itself in narrow-minded rejection of new ideas. The notion that veteran members of forums are not the trolls is surprisingly common. The tech site techpowerup, for instance, cites an old version of this article to suggest that forum trolls aren't longstanding members but are, instead, casual "few posts" interlopers. In my long and fairly broad Internet experience, which has involved many forums, I have seen many examples of trolling from veteran posters. Cliques tend to be dominant in forums and with those comes trolling. Concern trolling is typically one of the milder forms of the cliquish defense. "I see that you are new here. Here is what you should know. (We are in charge and define the truth, not reality.)" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.195.63 (talk) 09:03, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• DoNotFeedTroll.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:06, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Extremists anyone? 112.201.8.104 (talk) 02:15, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

I can't understand the opening sentence/definition of a troll. To me, it reads like nonsense. I came to the article hoping to learn what a "troll" means but this did not help. Grand Dizzy (talk) 17:03, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Can you be more specific on what does not make sense? The opening seems fine to me. It of course gives definition of the subject:

...A troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

So how is this not meaningful? – Ammarpad (talk) 20:01, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

First off, who's "Phillips", and how has the grammar in this section managed to escape scrutiny? 108.200.234.93 (talk) 11:28, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

"Phillips" appears to be the person who wrote whatever it's citing. Did you fix the grammar errors? The only one I found was incorrect capitalization of the word "America". BlacknoseDace (talk) 11:54, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect AOLamer. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 20#AOLamer until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Not a very active user (talk) 05:40, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect DFTT. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 20#DFTT until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Not a very active user (talk) 08:15, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Driveby Trolling. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 20#Driveby Trolling until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Not a very active user (talk) 08:37, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Trolling Trolls Trolling. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 20#Trolling Trolls Trolling until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Not a very active user (talk) 09:05, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Coolface. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 20#Coolface until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Not a very active user (talk) 09:18, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Troll Dad. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 20#Troll Dad until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Not a very active user (talk) 09:25, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

This edit request to Internet troll has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I suggest the intro para last sentence is slightly changed. The proposed addition is shown in [ ]. Feel free to edit into proper English. This is my first proposed wiki edit.

...' This is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or manipulating a political process or [with the intent of lowering the share price of a company by causing disruption and negative sentiment on stock discussion bulletin boards.] Wikiuser7777777 (talk) 09:10, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

@Wikiuser7777777:  Not done I’m afraid your proposal is particularly specific to a single situation (sounds like trolls participating in WallStreetBets specifically). This article is about trolls in general, therefore the description should remain at a similarly general level. Ferkjl (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

This edit request to Internet troll has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

82.4.93.106 (talk) 14:27, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

v;k.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Run n Fly (talk) 14:39, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

The old Norse word should be mentioned, at most, only briefly to dismiss it as irrelevant. It doesn't need a paragraph of confusing WP:OR ("The word evokes the trolls of Scandinavian folklore and children's tales") with a few weak references to this definition of the word and a cite for article on howtogeek.com. The latter appears to be just some random person's opinions. The whole paragraph could be dropped without losing anything of value. 67.188.1.213 (talk) 04:56, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

While corporate networking site LinkedIn is considered a platform of good taste and professionalism, companies searching for personal information by promoting jobs that were not real and fake accounts posting political messages has caught the company off guard.[1] WizardOfFox (talk) 01:43, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

^ "Political trolls are invading LinkedIn". Business Insider. November 7, 2018.

Planning to add section about the impact on LikedIn, once considered free of Trolls. Schomer, A. (2018, November 7). Political trolls are invading LinkedIn . Retrieved from Business Insider: https://www.businessinsider.com/trolls-invade-linkedin-2018-11 WizardOfFox (talk) 04:20, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

While corporate networking site LinkedIn is considered a platform of good taste and professionalism, companies searching for personal information by promoting jobs that were not real and fake accounts posting political messages has caught the company off guard. WizardOfFox (talk) 01:42, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

"Political trolls are invading LinkedIn". Business Insider. November 7, 2018. "I've spoken to some of the world's worst trolls. Here's what can help keep your kids safe online". ABC Everyday. November 2019. WizardOfFox (talk)WizardOfFox (talk) 05:33, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Most parents remember the first time they used the internet. Our children, however, are digital natives and are comfortable online Children can easily access hateful online content on a wide variety of websites.WizardOfFox (talk) 05:34, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

This passage doesn't seem relevant to trolling unless this is expanded into its own section. --35.20.142.65 (talk) 22:47, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

The lead image (File:Wikipedia vandalism.svg added 22 October 2019) is not appropriate as an encyclopedic article should not be promoting silly disruption by a passing IP (diff). If there is no suitable image, this should be removed. Johnuniq (talk) 00:34, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kaitlin.hurley.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:42, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 January 2020 and 27 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Maddiekeller.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:06, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2021 and 2 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Cmurr81.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:06, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 31 August 2021 and 27 October 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): WizardOfFox. Peer reviewers: Pinkballoon25, Plswrk.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:06, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2021 and 13 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kay mei.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:06, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The question is what to do about individuals who wish to discuss a subject to conclusion or no conclusion. Some may bring empirical evidence for consideration, and it is appreciated here. I know some in real life; they are just curious. How can you know this? How can you know so much? Etc. And they question everything, just as we Wikipedia editors do.

Furthermore, individuals may be informed/uninformed and/or very good at debate/well-spoken, this is adjudicated and wins debates in Universities all over the world and is well documented, though the well-informed hope their views stand the trial. This is not always the case. The opponent in debate is to be portrayed as a cartoon character? This is certainly looked down upon in debate, even though it's often used and "works" - especially if shared or with a public in attendance. Consensus-forming.

Perhaps there's some other pejorative term that could be put as title? -Though I would not support this in debate.

If there's no debate, Wikipedia poses as author of truth, which is very dangerous - open to far too easy intellectual attacks.

In summary, the article title supposes that more or less informed individuals can express views only across some digital protocol, which is certainly untrue.

I would support the removal of this article. It just sticks out; doesn't belong with the majority of articles.

Henrik Erlandsson 00:37, 29 May 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HenrikErlandsson (talk • contribs)

I'm not really sure what your objection to this article is. I assume by "protocol" you mean "etiquette", as opposed to the technical sense such as network protocol? If so, then I think you think people calling others "trolls" is a bad idea? That's not a valid reason for deletion of a Wikipedia article; we're here to document the phenomenon, not to pass judgment on whether it's constructive. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:06, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Allison Wallace (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Lvmcintire (talk) 18:04, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

The definition of Internet trolling has been examined within the context of communication research; however, there is no exact definition. This is due to the fact that trolling means different things to different people and online communities. Kiesler et al. and Siegel et al. have conducted early research that indicates and examines the “deindividualization in computer-mediated communication” (pp.549).^[1] The sense of anonymity that the Internet provided for its users allows low self-awareness and the likelihood that individuals will act on the inhibited impulses.^[2] Suler defines two types of disinhibition - toxic and benign disinhibition - that individuals reveal in online discussions.^[3] Toxic disinhibition refers to characteristics of rude language, anger, and harsh criticism.^[4] According to Hardaker, the common characteristic of the various definitions of trolling is “the posting of incendiary comments with the intent of provoking others into conflict” (pp. 9).^[5] Brott provides a list of behaviors that he deems positive in relation to communication behaviors and styles.^[6] Some of these include: “Affirming the feelings and needs of others, compromising, negotiating, helping others succeed, expressing respect for values and opinions of others, and talking positively and constructively” (pp. 1).^[7] Following these characteristics of positive communication styles, trolling goes against all of them. Trolling is centered on the toller’s enjoyment of negative communication behaviors. Klempkaand & Stimson sought to understand “what behaviors are commonly identified as trolling?” (pp.12).^[8] These communication characteristics included the use of sexist or homophobic language, mention of physical violence, poor grammar or profanity, and nonsensical and rude to individuals reading the comments.^[9] All of these characteristics are consistent with what Brott^[10] would deem poor communication behavior.

I would like to add to this comment and clarify what I think it has to do with the encyclopedia. There has been an evolution of the usage of the word. Originally, the meaning of the word "troll" was someone who was doing the "posting inflammatory content to provoke a reaction" as the specific goal without other primary motives, i. e., the person trolling generaly didnt genuinely believe what they were writing or wrote in a hyperbolic way to provoke outrage (doin' it for the lulz). There was an internet subculture that evolved with this that was associated with 4chan users and Encyclopedia Dramatica.

However, as the word entered broader public usage, the "means many things to different people" definition became more appropriate. For example, the term "concern troll" doesnt have much relation to the original meaning, as a "concern troll" is someone who hides their true intention with a different argument. That definition does not require the "concern troll" for intended to provoke a reaction. The similarity is that what the person is posting is not their actual concern, but that only relates to the original definition in the sense of "people saying something on the internet that has a motive other then the surface motive". That would of course expand the meaning of troll far beyond the scope of the original usage. Another example of this evolution in usage is members of a partisan political view calling comments expressing an opposite view "(disliked group) troll". The word "Troll" has then a negative connotation and is perhaps suggesting that such people post to aggravate others of the different view, but it is not mean in that context that the beliefs the "troll" has stated are insincere. Personally I have seen this from "Left" US commenters to refer to other commentors as "Trump Trools" or "right wing trolls" This often occurs in comment sections of articles or forums that are percieved as "left", thus suggesting the motivation of the commenters is to come into an "enemy space" to provoke and irritate. But it is a very different from the original sense (i.e., going into a Jewish group and claiming the Holocaust never happeened when one doesnt believe that or doesnt care just to generate aggravted responses). For whatever reason I have not seen this phenomenon on right wing online spaces, but its possible that is because I see such comment sections less. Another example of a use of the word is to label commentators as not random civlian commentators but payed propaganda agents. For example, I have seen people referred to as "Putin trolls" who are suspected of being paid agents of the state of Russia to post propaganda comments. In this case, the motivation/presentation of the comment is fake, but the reason is often not simply to provoke a reaction. As far as what this all has to do with the article, I think the article should clarify the original meaning and use of the term and its evolution. I understand this woulf be a difficult thing to researcg and document, and given my limited expereince as an editor I would not know how to do it, but it would be possible and I think in terms of explaining the actual etymology and evolution of the term, such a sourced explanation would be helpful. I believe that is somewhat to the point the previous commenter was trying to make, and I am responding partially to the question below of what that person's statements have to do with the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.185.109.34 (talk) 06:43, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Who are you and what do you propose to do in benefit of the encyclopedia? Julietdeltalima (talk) 22:09, 3 August 2022 (UTC)