Talk:Wilson desk

This is kinda' unclear. The article says that the desk was used by every vice president since Hobart since 1897. But Wilson was vice president in 1873. So Wilson didn't actually use the Wilson Desk? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.137.134.61 (talk) 12:57, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Wow that is kinda a major oversight on my part and a major discrepancy between the sources... i will look into this and adjust the article accordingly.--Found5dollar (talk) 14:18, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Page 6 of the cited document in question, The Vice President's Room, states "The double-pedestal, mahogany desk is sometimes referred to as the 'Wilson desk,' an erroneous association with Vice President Henry Wilson." I think since the document is prepared by the Office of Senate Curator and the latest document in the whole affair, "In actuality the desk was not used by Woodrow Wilson, but by Vice President of the United States Henry Wilson, under President Ulysses S. Grant's administration" should not be asserted here. Safire was a political writer, not a historian; he might have misheard what was passed to him. Jappalang (talk) 02:35, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Something wrong here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 11:38, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

The statement that the Watergate Tapes were made by an apparatus hidden in the Wilson desk doesn't cite a source. Weren't they made from the Theodore Roosevelt desk, which was in the Executive Office Building room 180, from where Nixon did most of his work? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.148.114.45 (talk) 18:41, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Ive been tryign to figure out what desk Hubert Humphrey was using in the Vice Presidents Office since it was obviously so special that he moved the Wilson desk out for it. I found this picture that shows Humphrey in the office with the desk behind him. Anyone know if this desk has any other history? Is it even worth noting in the article? --Found5dollar (talk) 22:53, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Reviewer: Eddie891 (talk · contribs) 16:51, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Wilson desk/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Can review Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 16:51, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

• a property decal from the Sergeant at Arms of the United States Senate, could you clarify what this means? What does the decal look like, where is it, perhaps?

This comes directly from this source. Max Friedersdorf tells Jack Marsh in a memorandum this number in an attempt to find the desk when the Senate was unsure of its location. I have researched trying to find an image of what these decals look like but haven't been able to find out more. If this feels like extraneous info I'm happy to cut it.--Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

• Nixon was out of the United States, had it refinished. could you contextualize, perhaps when or why Nixon was out of the country?

The source of this antidote just says that "Once, when he was on a trip abroad..." This additional ref only says it happened "during one of his absesnces" Unfortunately I cant seem to find exactly where he was.

Presumably, you mean 'anecdote' :p I couldn't find anything more, either. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:29, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

• Consider using inflation templates to convert prices?

Done--Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

• "The desk was likely ordered" what does likely mean here?

"Likely" is just there to show the small bit of uncertainty as to where the desk came from. The Senate source says "The double-pedestal desk is believed to have been ordered from W.B. Moses and Sons in 1898 specifically for use in the Vice President’s Room." It sis "believed" because they still have receipts and ledgers listing most of the items bought for the room but, sadly, the actual receipt for the desk no longer exists. With out %100 certainty we should probably still keep a "likely" or "believed to" there.--Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

• Do we know why Nixon would have believed Wilson used it?

Honestly, no idea. I've searched for that "why" but that info doesn't seem to exist out there. The closest I can assume was that everyone knew that Wilson used a different desk in the Oval Office, the Theodore Roosevelt desk. That desk was being used in Nixon's other office in the Executing Office Building. Someone probably said that Wilson used "this" desk and it got misconstrued to the desk he had in the Oval Office instead fo the EOO. This it complete and utter conjecture though. I cant find a single source that says the "why".--Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

• Any idea why Barkley got a name on the desk?

Again another unfortunate thing I cant find info on. I assume it is just that he was the last person to use it before Nixon in the Vice President's room, but it is referred to as the McKinley-Barkley desk a few times in references.--Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

• A brief gloss of what the Watergate tapes are in the article body might be useful

Added a super quick mention on what they were.--Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

• "This misconception was first discovered to be untrue" do we have a date?

This information comes from an account by William Safire in his book, Before the Fall he doesn't mention when this happened and I've watched interviews with him about the book but he doesn't ever seem to state when exactly this happened.--Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

• "of his character traits and virtues" who is 'he' here?

Fixed--Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

• "less-than-public entrances into the room" what does this mean? 'hidden'?

clarified--Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

• Imgs look good
• sources are reliable and reasonably well formatted (for GA)
• Ref #10 throws up a error 404 for me

It looked like they moved the page. found it again and changed the source. --Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

• Earwigs suggests no copyvio
• Spotchecked a few sources, lgtm.

Very interesting article, very nicely done. A few minor things, nothing too big and not one thing in particular that would fail the article Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 01:13, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Eddie891 Thank you do much for this review! I believe I have responded to all of the issues you rose. Please let me know if there is anything else that needs work.--Found5dollar (talk) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Nice, nice, this clearly meets the GA criteria. Happy to pass. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:29, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Im doing some research on the Johnson desk discrepancies and found this picture] from 1965. Johnson is at the LBJ ranch in Texas and that totally looks like the Wilson desk! Right down to the handle shapes and corner carving details. This seems pretty crazy, but thinking about all the stuff he did not out of the question. do we think this is the Wilson desk? Does anyone else have info about him possibly moving the desk to Texas!?--Found5dollar (talk) 02:28, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Woah! it seems it did go to texas per this book about Nixon! ill update and see if I can find a free picture of it there.--Found5dollar (talk) 02:39, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Ok something even stranger. In this interview with Ladybird from 1963, starting at 27:12 She says about the Wilson desk that "it was used in the capitol for a great many years, then his office force went in together and bought it for him when it was declared surplus available." So are the stores about the desk at Johnson's ranch actually about this desk and not the Johnson desk?--Found5dollar (talk) 16:14, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

I wondered who the McKinley and/or Barkley was in its original name and I found this bit from an oral interview from someone who worked in the Senate 1947–1984. That's well before McKinley (1897-1901) and W.W. (1913-1921) but at least within the time period of when Alben Barkley was V.P. (1949-1953).

We had in there [vice president's office in the Capitol] the McKinley desk that Woodrow Wilson used. McKinley had used it [at the White House]. When he was assassinated [in 1901] they stored it down in the basement of the White House. Well, Wilson was down there one day rummaging around and he saw it and he liked it. He brought it up and used it his two terms of office. They didn't want to put it back in the basement, so they brought it up and put it in the vice president's office. And they had the sofa that Vice President Henry Wilson died on in there [1875]... Now, the sofa was gone. The McKinley desk had gone back to the White House--Nixon took that [in 1969, and it was returned in 1977].

- Leonard H Ballard, 1983-1984, p.p. 165-166, https://www.senate.gov/about/resources/pdf/ballard-leonard-h-full-transcript-with-index.pdf JeremyNguyenGCI (talk) 11:28, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

I have learned there are actually two desks that have sat in the Vice President's office. An "1860 ca. Rosewood Rococo" [link https://www.senate.gov/art-artifacts/decorative-art/furniture/65_00131_000.htm] which was "used by ten vice presidents for almost forty years" and replaced in 1898. The replacement desk, "Mahogany 1898 ca." is what was loaned to Nixon (i.e. the "Wilson desk").

Now, the 10 vice presidents that the 1860 desk claims are: John Breckenridge (1857-1861), Hannibal Hamlin (1861-1865), Andrew Johnson (1865-1865), Schuyler Colfax (1869-1873), Henry Wilson (1873-1875), William A. Wheeler (1877-1881), Chester A. Arthur (1881-1881), Thomas A. Hendricks (1885-1885), Levi P. Morton (1889-1893), Adlai Stevenson I (1893-1897). You can even see it illustrated when Henry Wilson died.

What happened in regards to that desk — I am not certain. In 1950, the Senate donated an "historic walnut presiding officer's desk that Capitol Architect Thomas U. Walter had designed in 1858" to Alben Barkley, who's first occupant was Vice President John Breckenridge, and is now displayed at University of Kentucky in Lexington. Now, whether this is the same desk as the ~1860 desk, I'm not certain, but this quote from an oral interview does imply it: "They have it on display in the University of Kentucky library and they refer to it as the Barkley desk. I pointed out that all the Vice Presidents sat at that desk from [John] Breckenridge in 1859 up through Barkley in 1950's. So it was the Vice President's desk not the "Barkley desk." (https://www.senate.gov/about/resources/pdf/scott-dorothye-g-full-transcipt-with-index.pdf p. 270)

My guess is what happened is that the 1860 desk sat in the V.P. Senate office from 1860-1898. After that, I suspect it was used for the presiding office of the Senate, who likely was the V.P., from 1898-1950.

As for what happened in regards to the 1898 desk, I don't know. Being created in 1897, it very well could be one used by William McKinley (1897-1901), and then maybe the Woodrow Wilson story could be true. More likely, I imagine the first desk was the one intended to be called the Wilson desk since Wilson actually did die near it, and then when someone misremembered "The Wilson desk, used by the Vice President in the Senate" mixed up the desk used by the Senate Presiding Officer with the one in Senate V.P.'s office.

EDIT: Never mind, I found a picture of Uni.K's desk and it clearly isn't the same desk https://solrindex.uky.edu/catalog/xt75736m0s6q_108_13?f%5Bformat%5D%5B%5D=images&f%5Bpub_date_sort%5D%5B%5D=1985&per_page=50 JeremyNguyenGCI (talk) 23:22, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

I finally found a more satisfying source that Nixon wasn't the first to assume the McKinley/Wilson connection (though in this case, he does not specify Woodrow): In VP Alben Barkley's autobiography "That reminds me" page 210

"I was proud to occupy the historic room in the Capitol assigned to the Vice President... I enjoyed being surrounded by the priceless relics which enhanced the office: ...a desk once used by McKinley and Wilson, and so on... One day, alas, I unwittingly defiled - or maybe enhanced? - the Mc-Kinley-Wilson desk. I sat there to sign a $3,000,000,000 appropriation bill; someone slipped me a ball-point pen with which I was unfamiliar, and I pressed so hard that my name is scratched into the surface." JeremyNguyenGCI (talk) 07:31, 26 May 2025 (UTC)