User talk:Johnbod/23

I know, it was a silly mistake. I thought the Catalan name was the official and most widely used name here, as "Casa Batlló"... But it wasn't. Could you please move it back to Batlló Majesty (with an acute accent), as spelled at the museum?^[1]

Thanks. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 01:11, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

BTW, your statement isn't 100% true. We can certainly use local names when there isn't an English exonym (i.e. whenever a term or expression hasn't been adapted into English), like "Accademia della Crusca" instead of "Bran Academy" or "Academy of the Bran".

Credo Reference, who generously donated 400 free Credo 250 research accounts to Wikipedia editors over the past two years, has offered to expand the program to include 100 additional reference resources. Credo wants Wikipedia editors to select which resources they want most. So, we put together a quick survey to do that:

• Link to Survey (should take between 5-10 minutes): http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/N8FQ6MM

It also asks some basic questions about what you like about the Credo program and what you might want to improve.

At this time only the initial 400 editors have accounts, but even if you do not have an account, you still might want to weigh in on which resources would be most valuable for the community (for example, through WikiProject Resource Exchange).

Also, if you have an account but no longer want to use it, please leave me a note so another editor can take your spot.

If you have any other questions or comments, drop by my talk page or email me at wikiocaasi@yahoo.com. Cheers! Ocaasi ^{t | c} 17:21, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Just to say what a pleasure it was meeting you. I hope you enjoyed Wikimania as much as I did--and our conversation has given me some faith in the future. I'll get on Judith when I can. Best, Drmies (talk) 14:07, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely - a great time, but not so many writers there as I'd have liked - did you say you'd talked to User:Awadewit? I think not. I'm just settling back in after a "red-eye" flight. Let me know when you get going on Judith; one day I'll do Power of Women (as a theme in Renaissance art). I'll keep an eye out for stuff on popular devotional material. Johnbod (talk) 14:18, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

In fact, I even had dinner with her (psst: she had canoli for dessert); I was duly impressed with her article work. Writers--I proposed a writing session ("How to write a DYK") but it was turned down. We were more concerned with governance and expansion and education and importance than with writing, it seems to me. In other news, it's as hot here in AL as it was in DC, but there's a lot less walking to do. I gotta tell you, though, it's nice to be in a big city again. Yes, please do keep me in mind for that material! Drmies (talk) 17:18, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Something for next year, though it does present difficulties, as well as opportunities, with people from all the languages around. Johnbod (talk) 19:07, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Johnbod. Thanks for the support on the info box discussion on Peter Sellers. We would really value your comments here as the self same discussion is taking place. This is slightly more serious as it is currently an FAC. Sorry to have to get you to repeat yourself on the same subject, but a consensus is desperately needed so we can nip this in the bud now. Hope you well! -- Cassianto^Talk 07:08, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Hello. You have a new message at Anna Frodesiak's talk page. 07:11, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Hello. You have a new message at Anna Frodesiak's talk page. 13:33, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment on the talk page - would you mind looking at the recent changes I made and seeing if they seem OK (they were proposed on the talk page since May and no one commented on them)?

I also proposed adding a bit (a sentence or possible a phrase) to note that Fanny had smallpox as a child and was scarred as a result, but am not sure where to put it (as it seems like it would interrupt the current narrative flow in either the infancy or Childhood sections). One problem is that Todd's Death and the Maidens (which I read) does not say when exactly Fanny had smallpox, but I thought of adding it to this sentence: Three-year-old Fanny was unofficially adopted by her stepfather and given the name of Godwin.

so it would read Three-year-old Fanny, who had been scarred from smallpox, was unofficially adopted by her stepfather and given the name of Godwin.

Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 14:46, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

They look fine to me. Johnbod (talk) 22:33, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:55, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

is this realy out of scope with the article? Deror (talk) 22:25, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Well the "in Christian art" in the title is to restrict the subject to religious art, and exclude crucified Santa Claus etc, & I guess this isn't really religious art. Johnbod (talk) 22:30, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Johnbod. We've not talked in a while, but something on Commons caught my attention (the donation by the Walters Art Museum), see Commons:Commons:Walters Art Museum. You've probably been aware of it for a while, but I've only just stumbled across that. All looks really great. I have been browsing through the categories, trying to find portraits of people, and found a few sculptures here and there (including drawings and busts of the original Walters, William Thompson Walters, and his wife and daughter - the son founded the museum - Walters Art Museum). What I was really pleased to find was Commons:Category:Medallions in the Walters Art Museum. This includes a set of medallions by David d'Angers (see also Commons:Category:Medals by Pierre Jean David. Though pretty soon I realised that most of the articles on the people in that Walters Art Museum medallions category had portraits already, I did notice that many of the articles were lacking links to the Commons category, which I've been adding here and there. What I got to wondering was whether there was scope on a list-type article on the medallions done by d'Angers, which could now be well-illustrated. I looked at the article we have on d'Angers (David d'Angers), and it does say that his busts and medallions were "much in demand", so I'm guessing there are enough sources out there to support a list-type article. Would you be able to help with pointing me in the right direction for that sort of thing? A couple of questions on nomenclature as well:

• (i) The Commons category for d'Angers calls them 'medals'. I'm guessing medallions is the more correct term, is that right? And would medals be reserved for actual military decorations, or are the terms interchangeable?
• (ii) Some of the French names are given differently. See File:Pierre-Jean David d'Angers - Jean-Antoine-Dominique Ingres (1780-1867) - Walters 54848.jpg: compared to Jean Auguste Dominique Ingres - which is correct, Antoine, Auguste, or both? A similar example is at File:Pierre-Jean David d'Angers - George Weimer - Walters 54839.jpg - the category and file name use 'Mademoiselle George', while the en-Wikipedia article uses Marguerite Georges (with the picture caption there saying 'Mademoiselle Georges'). Would you know whether George or Georges or both are correct?

Anyway, I was particularly pleased to find the medallion for Georges Couthon (see the inscription) and the medallion for the son of Narcisse Virgilio Díaz. The main thing I'm trying to find out, as I said above, is whether these medallions by d'Angers are part of a vast output, and whether there is a catalogue anywhere listing them all, or whether that donation by the Walters Art Museum is a significant part of the total (reading the article on d'Angers again, I see that "His medallions number over 500", so 30 or so is not that many). And whether an article on the medallions (or maybe a listing of his works, if that doesn't already exist) would be possible? I suppose working on the d'Angers article itself (a bit of a jumble) might be a good place to start, spinning stuff off as needed. Carcharoth (talk) 06:01, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Civil/artistic medals (in fact the correct, or more usual, term, except for classical stuff) are a pretty neglected area here! There will surely be a catalogue raisonné in French, which the BL or National Art Library (at the V&A) will have. In general I'm dubious of WP list articles of this type which pretend to completeness, if only by ommission of a disclaimer, but you could certainly do one. As far as I'm concerned, being a catalogue raisonné comes under WP:NOT, but that's no reason not to have listrs that are clear about their limitations. Or you could do David d'Angers medals at the Walters Art Museum, an approach that has hardly ever been used, but is valid I think. Don't know about the variant names. Hope that helps. The Walters stuff is fantastic; I've done a lot of categorizing, & a fair bit of placing in articles - I added one to Romanticism last night. Johnbod (talk) 12:31, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I think the two best sources for d'Angers' medallions are: Les Médaillons de David d'Angers (1867), which is available online at the French National Library here. It would be possible to do a list (maybe initially in my userspace) and to then supplement this with sourced commentary from the Reinis catalogue of 1999: The Portrait Medallions of David D'Angers: An Illustrated Catalogue of David's Contemporary and Retrospective Portraits in Bronze (J. G. Reinis, Polymath Press, 1999, 493pp). By the way, is it more usually to refer to David d'Angers as 'David' rather than 'd'Angers'? The reason I want to do such a list is that I want to browse the articles we have on the medallion subjects (almost certainly most of them will have articles, though a few don't, such as that artist's son who died that I mentioned above). So more an index than a list or catalogue raisonné.

The Walters donation is great, as you say, but I'm not clear whether this will be followed up by further donations or not. It appears that some of the pictures they have have not been donated (specifically I was looking for better ones of Henry Walters - they seem to have not donated the better ones they have of him - not sure why). The other thing is that probably only a small number will ever get used in articles (this is quite normal). That's not a reason not to have such donations, but it is worth remembering that you need either high volume of such donations, or some editorial selection, to get a large throughput to articles. What you have is a large categorising and labelling effort (which may improve on the labelling done by the Walters Art Museum, and pick up a few errors, but likely not much). Essentially, Commons is serving as a distributor that gets wider viewing than just the Walters Art Museum online pages itself (if they are online, I may have misunderstood this part). What I think would be ideal is if people browsing the rest of their collection could request images, but as I said, I'm not clear on whether the donation is the entire collection or only a part of it. I've asked on the Commons page, but not checked for any replies yet. Carcharoth (talk) 08:03, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I think he is usually "David d'Angers" in initial or general mentions, to avoid confusion, then "David" once it's clear who's meant. I'm not clear the Getty list entry agrees with me there. AFAIK the Walters gave us everything, but maybe not always the best photos - I suppose manuscript pages & detail shots aren't complete. Johnbod (talk) 11:59, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I've made a start on that possible list here. Only a very small start. Really need to find some OCR version of the 1867 work (or a list somewhere else) that can be cut and pasted and then checked against the original. The BNF may have OCR downloads (not checked yet), but failing that it may be a case of slowly typing out the names... Still, I found that first set of 36 an interesting tour through 19th-century French history. Though the same would be done by buying the 1999 work, though I suspect that is horrendously expensive, so may order it up at a suitable library somewhere in London. Also, the 1999 work will have more definitive identifications of the subjects of the medallions. Several of the subjects have articles in the French Wikipedia, but not here, so I may request translation at some point. Some just don't have articles full-stop. Two I got completely stuck on, the Anne-Marie Arago entry and the M.-A. Barthelemy entry. There are some famous Barthelemy's, but not sure if this is one of them. The other thing I noticed, while searching for the Swanton-Belloc entry, was that pictures of some of the medallions are online at other museums - see the link in the list to the Metropolitan Museum of Art. So even if Commons doesn't have pictures, it will be possible to link out from the list to archive and catalogue photographs elsewhere (either by searching or consulting the 1999 work which lists the locations). It being such a long list, I may never complete it, but I thought it was worth starting, similar to the listing you may remember at Frieze of Parnassus. That was a similar grouping of 'famous people'; not sure yet what proportion of these medallions are historical figures as opposed to contemporaries or near contemporaries of the sculptor, but it is an interesting cross-section of various people. Carcharoth (talk) 06:38, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, there may be commissioned series in the oeuvre, but I expect much of them just show who was commissioned or who it was thought would sell, or who looked impressive. I know next to nothing about the medal market in the 19th century - not so big in Britain, but it may have been a bit like the craze here for portrait prints, at it's height around 1780-1820 I think. Don't forget that medals count as 3D works for copyright purposes. A big job. Johnbod (talk) 12:11, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

The basic list will take about a month if I do a couple of pages a week. Making the list useful will take longer. I've put up a second batch if you want to look. It would take less time if others help out, of course, but I'd still want to check everything myself. Still not quite sure why the 1867 work gets some years so wrong. Was there something going on with the calendar at that time? I know one of the French Revolutions renamed the months, but did they change the calendar by several years as well? I'll keep in mind the bit about 3D stuff, though the 1867 pages would be OK to use. I think people on Commons have worked with the Metropolitan Museum of Art before, so may ask around over there as well, as they have a lot of image of the medals. Not sure yet which other museums have copies or originals (let alone which have online photographs) - there is a list in the 1999 book. There is also File:Plaque Humboldt Paris.jpg as an example of a use of the medals, though I'm not sure when the plaque was erected, probably much later. It is bound to be documented somewhere. Carcharoth (talk) 07:15, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

The calendar was all back to normal under Napoleon; I expect it's a difference between dates made, sold, exhibited or something. I suppose the obvious thing is to ask on the French wp arts project. Johnbod (talk) 11:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

On 1 August 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kanō school, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Kanō school dominated Japanese painting for four centuries (17th-century painting illustrated), headed by members of the same family? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Kanō school. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:02, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for a fascinating article. I admit my favourite parts were the images, but the text was a really good read about topic of which I've known next to nothing until now. Heimstern Läufer (talk)

Many thanks! I'm working on the "other side" Yamato-e now - a way to go, & it won't I thnk be on DYK. Johnbod (talk) 20:39, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I value your aesthetic judgement. As I'm expanding List of blue plaques, what do you think should be blue linked? The persons notable work, their occupation? Their notable road? The area? I am wary of it being too blue. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 18:53, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

I think it's mostly fine - I've made a few changes you're welcome to revert. Some are defined as Irish (Yeats) or French, but Melville & Pound are not "American". I think less central places like Surbiton or Barnet can be linked, but best not to with the central areas. Bloomsbury is (at least largely) in the London Borough of Camden (which has been rather misnamed imo), but is not in Camden itself, so I cut that. Johnbod (talk) 20:11, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm changing the addresses so they match the English Heritage website, I like your suggestion, I'll also link streets where poss. Amazed to see a few biographies missing as well. I've been meaning to ask you, I like the List of most expensive paintings, how would name a list of non-painting artworks? Am thinking List of most expensive objet d'art for everything else? I just saw the Badminton cabinet and various historic photograph sales and got intrigued. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 22:35, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Just "works of art" I think, & explain you are excluding paintings, or are you going to do "most expensive" by type? Sculpture could have its own list. "Most expensive" can be a referencing nightmare I think, like List of best-selling books. Johnbod (talk) 00:31, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Is this Gothic art is it, I might use there.--74.34.86.196 (talk) 23:25, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

You could call it Gothic, sure, but Gothic art is also crowded already. What is it exactly, & where does it come from? Did you take it yourself, or copy a file? The most useful pictures are those with good details, and maybe a link to a museum page etc. It looks like it shows a religious procession & might be very useful on an article on these. Johnbod (talk) 23:29, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes you've got to laugh!

Amandajm (talk) 07:07, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi!

Regarding this edit, I recommend choosing your words carefully. The question of whether the May constitution was indeed the second constitution in world history, and if so, what precisely we mean by "constitution" in this context, has been a matter of quite a bit of contention on this and several related articles going back to at least 2005. See, for example, previous discussions archived here, here, here, and here. Gabbe (talk) 20:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Have you seen the now-archived FAC, and the note I added to the Davies quote? I'm really not too bothered, but adding "written" is clearly a step in the right direction. The claim is attributed to numerous historians, which is appropriate here, but no doubt the passge could be further improved - or the disagreement itself amplified lower down. Johnbod (talk) 21:46, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Not to nag, but you looked at Osiris myth a few weeks ago, made one comment, and said you would add more. This candidacy is moving toward the bottom of the FAC page, so I'd like some more input soon. (I know the review processes are in the doldrums at the moment, so I'm pitching in and doing some peer reviews.) A. Parrot (talk) 04:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, holiday time! I did forget but saw it again recently, & should return. Johnbod (talk) 09:55, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks for the FAC review of Olmec colossal heads, adding that extra stuff and for your support. All the best, Simon Burchell (talk) 06:54, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

And thank you for a very interesting article on a subject I didn't know much about! We now need something on the very classy jades to add to the colossal heads and pottery figurines. Johnbod (talk) 09:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

<smirk> Yes. </smirk> I'll check my email at work tomorrow to see what it took to get it and let you know. I seem to recall that the process didn't take long so perhaps a reminder email would do the trick. Bencherlite^Talk 22:38, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

May I ask you to have a further look at Talk:Caspar David Friedrich. My short reference to the influence of Friedrich's painting on the early work of HA Schult has now been removed from the Friedrich article. I do not understand why, as Schult is an internationally recognized German artist who has clearly been influenced by Friedrich. See, for instance, these works by Schult: . Wikiwiserick (talk) 21:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Johnbod - At the talk page I explained at length why this is not a good idea; - the performance artist in question has no business being included in the article, a minor figure at best, by the way check out this link too: Dreams (1990 film)...Modernist (talk) 21:28, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

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I have added the following to Talk:GLAM_(industry_sector)#WMUK_GLAM-WIKI_2012:

I am very disappointed by this addition on 1 April 2012 to the GLAM (industry sector) article, which is advertising for a WMUK event. It is inappropriate to add "planned" events per WP:CRYSTAL, especially if you don't use reliable sources that are independent, _especially_ when you have a conflict of interest (user:Johnbodwas announced as a WMUK trustee nominee four days after that edit, and became a WMUK trustee a month later). I checked and couldn't find any online newspaper articles for "GLAM-WIKI 2012" or "GLAM-WIKI 2013", so I have removed this.

I have no problems with people editing when they have a conflict of interest, but they should be extra careful to be compliant with community expectations. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 03:26, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Just drop by to say hello! I am an art lover! :D  RexRowan  Talk  12:55, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

		The Barnstar of Fine Arts
		For your generous contribution in night in paintings  RexRowan  Talk  09:19, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Johnbod (talk) 22:24, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

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Hi John, thanks so much for the great directional comments for Night in paintings (Western art) - do you mind taking a look at Talk:Night in paintings (Eastern art) next steps section? That would be really helpful! I took a stab at comments about approach, but your input would be extremely helpful! Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:40, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello, I noticed that you recently created a new page, Modern sculpture. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page - Sculpture#Modernism. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Sculpture#Modernism - you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think that the article you created should remain separate, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. JetBlast (talk) 00:52, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Err... perhaps you missed that Johnbod's been reworking the Sculpture article and is quite probably aware that there is a section for Modernism... my guess is he spun that information out of the main Sculpture article. There is quite enough information available on modern sculpture to fill an entire article on its own... is this notice a joke??? Ealdgyth - Talk 01:20, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks - see Talk at Sculpture - I'm trimming down the section there, & copied it in all it's repetitious glory to the new article, which could usefully be expanded. Strangely, contemporary sculpture seems to be an entirely American affair .... Johnbod (talk) 01:23, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't have a clue! There must have been something about him on TV. Obviously sensational. Leonardo's Personal life got 600 hits on 1 August, as against the usual 300-400 and peaked again a week or so back. The Leonardo da Vinci article went from its usual midweek high of 11,000 to 13,400 on 1st August. Amandajm (talk) 23:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

It took me a while to work out why Salai got 100,00 hits on 1st August. He is a masochist and it was his birthday. Amandajm (talk) 08:36, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

I simplified your description about Murphy-O'Connor. Although he retired from active duty in the UK, he remains cardinal-priest of Santa Maria sopra Minerva until his death as well as Archbishop (Emeritus) of Westminster. I was not aware "emeritus" was not used in the UK in academic or religious institutions. --Alberto Fernández Fernández (talk) 19:01, 1 September 2012 (UTC):

After, the way you edit, you seem a jerk as well, and yes the painting does show symmetry maybe not reflection, however, if you look at the center of the painting and not the rest of the details.--GoShow (...............) 04:25, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

However, I can delete it and use it for another perpective of art--GoShow (...............) 04:28, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Broad symmetry yes, pardon about the reflection, it seems more some gold, wood, and ink , maybe--GoShow (...............) 04:32, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

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Hi GLAM PMA folks! I wanted to update you about some recent events related to our fantastic Museum. I met Jessica Milby, PMA Collections Information Project Manager, at Wikimania in July. Jessica was looking for ways to improve articles on Wikipedia about the Museum and its artists/collections. We followed up a few weeks later at the Perelman Building in downtown Philadelphia where we discussed ways to increase participation in the GLAM/PMA project.

• The first idea is to do some outreach to the GLAM:PMA project members, including mass messages updating you all about plans and, seeking feedback about new ideas, and hearing your thoughts about what's in the works.
• The next step is a drive to improve the main Philadelphia Museum of Art article. The article is currently 'B-Class', but Jessica was confident that with the abundance of high quality sources about the Museum that it could be improved even further. Jessica recommended this extensive source from the Museum's website.
• Another idea that came out of the meeting was a project within the Museum to assess which PMA-related topics are missing articles on Wikipedia.
• One of Jessica's ideas is to have the knowledgeable curators of the Museum provide recommended reading lists for PMA-related articles. That should be a great first step to guiding editors towards the information they need to expand and improve that content.
• Also raised for discussion were some ideas about how to engage the broader community. There is interest in setting up a tour/edit-a-thon, but this remains in the preliminary stage. Would you be interested in participating in such an event?
• We have new stats! These 24 articles are all under the PMA project. I compiled the last 90-day page views and then annualized the results. PMA-related articles get almost 800,000 view per year!

It's exciting to have a partner in Jessica Milby and there should be a lot of good work coming out the collaboration within the next 3-6 months. Please stop by the GLAM/PMA project page and leave your thoughts. What ideas do you have? How can we move forward on the above projects? I Hope you're all well. Cheers! Ocaasi 19:05, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for organising the showing. FYI, I have started some notes on the outcome of the event at Wikipedia:GLAM/BM/2012. Andrew Davidson (talk) 17:07, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh, thanks very much! Johnbod (talk) 22:44, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

I just noticed you were the one who made this edit to Ara Pacis. I know you like careful distinctions, so see my explanation at Talk:Ara Pacis#triumphal/triumphant. A triumphus is a formal honor that has to be granted, and is not just a celebratory or "triumphant" return, which is all Augustus had (if that). A celebratory return, however, might be an adventus, a subject also found as the subject of art. Under Augustus, the triumph was undergoing a transformation along with other institutions of the Republic; for instance, the last person outside the Imperial family allowed to celebrate a triumphus (in 19 BC, under Augustus) was the remarkable Cornelius Balbus, who was also the first person not born a Roman citizen to be granted a triumph.

At any rate, in 13 BC Augustus did indeed return to Rome "triumphantly" (though I deleted the word as potentially confusing), because he had just thoroughly reshaped the face of a massive portion of Rome's territorial holdings, but he did not celebrate a triumphus. The return of Augustus as commemorated on the Altar of Peace is considered an adventus by Torelli (as here also), who refers however to the real-life return as a mere reditus; Fishwick emphasizes that Augustus made a relatively quiet return, and that even adventus is too strong a word. Augustus refused triumphal honors after his triple triumph in 29 BC (Torelli, p. 28), and it was an ideological point that his res gestae in Hispania and Gaul were marked not by a triumph, but by a monument to peace. Best wishes, Cynwolfe (talk) 13:37, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok thanks; I was approaching it as a correction to what seemed to a an edit based on "triumphal" not being a word, though I might be wrong there; "triumpal" had been there before. I had no knowledge of the specific moment. I've just been doing Blacas Cameo, & set up Category:Augustus in Ancient Roman sculpture, & may yet do Augustus in art or something - I have a small BM exhibition book on the subject - all very reminiscent of North Korea. Cheers, Johnbod (talk) 15:49, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I know—not meant as a criticism. Just offered in case you were working on these kinds of representations of imperial or royal processions in art, and came upon other such things. And of course there are also mythological triumphs to muddle matters. Cynwolfe (talk) 16:00, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Well we could do with more on the Adventus in art, but I don't think I'll be doing it. I did Royal entry with Wetman years ago, mainly on the medieval and Renaissance ones. Johnbod (talk) 16:03, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

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The removal of the category "Pre-Raphaelite Paintings" makes me curious. --DL5MDA (talk) 07:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

It is in Category:Paintings by John Everett Millais, which is in its entirety already part of Category:Pre-Raphaelite paintings. (I assume that this was the reason for the removal; Johnbod will object if I'm wrong.) --Hegvald (talk) 18:05, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely right, thanks. I think WP:OCAT is the relevant policy. Johnbod (talk) 20:58, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your input on what is and is not useful. Also thank you for pointing out the conflict of interest. We would very much enjoy connecting our digital content with relevant Wikipedia entries, and it would be great if you (or someone else) might be willing to work with us on future edits. I have looked over the VAwebteam profile and it looks like they're trying to do something similar to us. Please let me know what we need to do in order to work out some sort of arrangement. Thanks in advance for your assistance. WilliamDigiCol (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:05, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

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You objected to it being speedied, so I opened a full discussion at CfD September 19.

Look fwd to your contribution there. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:44, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

I've added some further information to La Coupole regarding the museum. Any chance you could take a look and update your comments at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/La Coupole/archive1? Prioryman (talk) 07:13, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok, but I haven't read the article fully & I'm not sure when I'll be able to now. Johnbod (talk) 11:27, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Johnbod. You may like to note that I've queried your removal of the [Category:Anglo-Saxon documents] from Bayeux Tapestry on the article's Talk page: I thought it was worth a discussion. If you have strong feelings on the subject you may want to weigh in. GrindtXX (talk) 18:25, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

On 24 September 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Blacas Cameo, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the first-century Blacas Cameo (pictured) shows the Emperor Augustus clothed only in a goatskin aegis? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Blacas Cameo. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

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I think I need a little education on this, and wading through the Help Pages (where info can be scattered across many different pages) is a pain. I am referring to my edit on Medals about how "Orders, decorations, and medals" has a notice that it is a conatiner category that should only contain other subcategories. There is another type of notice, that says "Pages in this category should be moved to subcategories where applicable", such as Category:Concepts, Which seems to me to be more reasonable. What is the difference? Why does someone tag a category as "only put subcategories here"? Your comments would be appreciated--Nyctc7 (talk) 22:42, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Wow - your link above to "Orders, decorations, and medals" redirected to Decorations and medals of the Netherlands!! Now goes to the category. I don't know the answer exactly, or if there is one. The notice was added about 2 years ago by Xdamr, of the project. Generally a strongish notice discouraging people from dumping specific things in the head-cat seems a good idea, but equally leaving the 3 main very general articles there seems sensible too. The situation has been stable AFAIK for a good while, though the "history" of a category's contents needs an admin to see, which I'm not. Ignore some notices some of the time I suppose. Does that help? Johnbod (talk) 00:41, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Re: That silly redirect. It was created by the person who created the page and was never fixed. You can see I recently did exactly what you did to correct it, then undid my edit because I wasn't sure about what to do (wasn't sure that it was proper to redirect a page to a category), then...forgot about it. I'm glad you fixed it! Yes, what you wrote helps. Thanks! Cheers, --Nyctc7 (talk) 01:25, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes I was surprized I was able to redirect to a category - it seems best here, but may yet be "corrected". Cheers, Johnbod (talk) 01:28, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

You might be interested in an essay that I've written on the issue of Gibraltarpedia's supposed ability to produce commercial benefits for Gibraltar; see User:Prioryman/Gibraltarpedia, monetisation and myths. By the way, if you're not already aware, Gibraltarpedia itself is currently up for deletion; see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:GLAM/GibraltarpediA‎. Prioryman (talk) 23:04, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Johnbod. You have new messages at Jimbo Wales's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:11, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Johnbod, I have replied on Jimbo's talk page. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 19:59, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I spoke to one person last night & have emailed 2 others. It is pretty clear no MOU has been or will be signed; I am trying to establish if anyone at WMUK has had the draft Roger refers too. Johnbod (talk) 20:13, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to copy your reply over to Jimbo's talk page to keep the discussion in one place. I hope that's ok with you. I will reply there. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:57, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I will reply there when I have something to say. I don't think a holding reply like this should be there. Johnbod (talk) 15:09, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Jimbo's page is archived quite aggressively and I do not wish for the discussion to be automatically archived before you have a chance to reply. I have added some more information there that you may find helpful. If you could address the question of availability of the documents, it would save me from typing it out again. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:40, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

As I suspect you know, threads with recent contributions are not archived. No, the Monmouth information was not useful, as that MOU was well-known. I have tracked down a draft of the Gib MOU but not all the information necessary to answer your questions (and confirm or qualify my earlier statements) fully. In particular Stevie Benton does not return from holiday until Thursday, & then will have a certain amount of catching up to do, to put it mildly. Johnbod (talk) 14:56, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

And threads with no recent contributions are archived, which I prevented by posting your comment and my reply. Again, if you could make your replies on Jimbo's talk page, it would keep this discussion together (and dispell any impression that you are simply ignoring the questions). I have summarized our conversation as a comment on the recent Signpost article about WMUK. I believe it is accurate, but please look it over. You may wish to comment there. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:42, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

• Apologies for the delay. I was incorrect to say (the section is now archived here) that no MOU was being negotiated with Gibraltar, and have located what I believe is the latest draft. This was mentioned, and approved in principle, at the September 8th Board Meeting, where I was present, but the text was not discussed to any degree, and it was not in the printed Board papers, although it was emailed to the Board list on September 1st. The draft I have is a Google document that has a number of comments on it and was most recently commented on on September 4th. It is not available on the public WMUK wiki, and is a draft in progress, which to my eyes needs work. It seems to have been overtaken by events, & I can't get a clear view as to whether it will be proceeded with in the future. The parties are WMUK & a representative of a department of the Gibraltar government (not Tourism), and the text covers "management arrangements" for what it says is not a partnership. As to the Monmouth questions you added on October 2nd, I am not going to start on those because the signing on May 19 this year was exactly a week after I was elected a Trustee, and I was not involved in discussions of the document. All these matters are going to be within the scope of the expert being appointed to do the WMUK governance review, & I think they are now best left for that review. I've replied on the Gibraltar points because I intervened in that discussion, not very accurately I'm afraid, & needed to correct my earlier comment. I'm sorry it took so long, and for my less than total recall. Johnbod (talk) 02:52, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks for your reply, John. I was really hoping that we could conclude the discussion in one place. Jimbo's talk page having been archived, I have taken the liberty of quoting your reply on the Signpost talk page. You were, as you say, responding to my comment there, so it seems like a good place to finish this. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 03:23, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
    • The best place to raise these detailed matters is at the WMUK Water Cooler, which archives very slowly. But as I say above, with the expert review happening I think we should now wait for that. Johnbod (talk) 14:58, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
      • Your statement on the Signpost talk page implies that if I ask my questions here, you will reply. So, the most recent request for information was:

        John, I understand that you were a very new Trustee when the Monmouthpedia MOU was signed, but I am not asking about the history. What is the status of that MOU, how is Roger described in that MOU, and is it available to the public or to WMUK members? Those are very simple questions and I would appreciate an answer. Whether or not this will be covered by the independent investigation does not seem relevant.

        Delicious carbuncle (talk) 23:56, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

All I know is that there is a draft on the office wiki, which is a PDF of an unsigned document, described as not approved by the board. The draft lists the signatories as: a Monmouth County Council person, the then WMUK chair, and finally Roger Bamkin as "Wikimedia UK Trustee and Steering Group representative"; no individuals are mentioned in the text. It was uploaded May 30th 2012. Presumably it is not on the public wiki; we don't have anything that WMUK members can see and the public not. I'm not going to do further investigation in light of the expert report. Johnbod (talk) 03:58, 7 October 2012 (UTC)