Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 27
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
May 27
Category:Treaties of the medieval Islamic world
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 23:47, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose upmerging Category:Treaties of the medieval Islamic world to Category:Medieval treaties
- Nominator's rationale: A treaty is by definition a legal agreement signed by (at least) two sovereign states. (Edit: more strictly speaking, a treaty can also be signed between a state actor and a non-state actor, like a terrorist organisation or rebel movement). "the medieval Islamic world" was neither a state actor nor a non-state actor, so this is WP:NONDEFINING for treaties. (Note: I previously CfD'd this as part of a package, but the discussion became confused and complicated, so I withdrew it. I'm taking it one at a time now). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:17, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support, medieval treaties categories are subdivided by country and the medieval Islamic world is not a country. It also does not concern a topic that is in any way particular to or separate in the medieval Islamic world. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:19, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:26, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support. I have nominated a parent and two siblings at May 28#Foreign relations of the medieval Islamic world. – Fayenatic London 16:04, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose There is no requirement that a treaty category be strictly limited to a state. The argument you are making could be made against the existing Category:Medieval treaties and Category:Ancient treaties which do not concern a specific state, right?. I also see Category:Treaties of ancient Greece, which was not really a unified state. Al-Andalusi (talk) 00:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Al-Andalusi Strictly speaking, a treaty can also be signed between a state actor and a non-state actor like a terrorist organisation or rebel movement, yes. "medieval Islamic world" was neither a state actor nor a non-state actor.
- Category:Medieval treaties and Category:Ancient treaties are just about treaties between state actors and/or non-state actors by period. Because treaties carry specific dates at which they were signed (and later ratified), categorisation by period is possible without being arbitrary.
- Category:Treaties of ancient Greece is an interesting case (probably comparable to Category:Treaties of al-Andalus). I might add that its parent Category:Interstate relations in ancient Greece seems to be unique and has no equivalent either. Per WP:OTHERSTUFF, if you think such categories should exist, or neither, you are free to CfD that category / those categories as well. Depending on your rationale, I might support your nomination for deletion as well. Similarly, Category:Military history of ancient Greece and Category:Military history of al-Andalus might be co-nominated as well for being a military histories of regions which were rarely a unified state, and more often fragmented into functionally independent states, which often fought against each other. Nevertheless, I think nobody will dispute that Ancient Greece or Al-Andalus are legitimate historiographical concepts, and that their associated category trees have a certain categorisation legitimacy and usefulness up to a certain point. The question would be where that legitimacy/usefulness as a category tree ends. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- PS: Alright, I've already done it myself: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 29#Category:Treaties of ancient Greece. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:29, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Further note: the content of the category stays in the tree of Category:Medieval Islamic world anyway. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- As far as this CfM is concerned: yes. As far as Fayenatic's CfM of its parent Category:Foreign relations of the medieval Islamic world is concerned: no. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:16, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Further note: the content of the category stays in the tree of Category:Medieval Islamic world anyway. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- PS: Alright, I've already done it myself: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 29#Category:Treaties of ancient Greece. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:29, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:1st-century rulers in Europe
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: downmerge. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 23:47, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose downmerging Category:1st-century rulers in Europe to Category:1st-century monarchs in Europe
- Propose downmerging Category:2nd-century rulers in Europe to Category:2nd-century monarchs in Europe
- Propose downmerging Category:3rd-century rulers in Europe to Category:3rd-century monarchs in Europe
- Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT 0 P, 1 C. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:56, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support Small and growth is unlikely. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:46, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support, redundant category layer (even while governors could still be added). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:23, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Marcomannic rulers
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 23:49, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Marcomannic rulers to Category:Marcomannic monarchs
- Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Monarchs in Europe. And because "Marcomannic monarchs" is such a great alliteration. Nah, just kidding. ;) Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:50, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Question @Nederlandse Leeuw: Was Catualda a monarch? - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:48, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- As far as the Romans were concerned, yes. He deposed king Marboduus in order to take his place. He reigned for a brief time. Article Vibilius has him as a "king":
According to Tacitus, Vibilius deposed the Marcomannic king Catualda, who had himself deposed Maroboduus in 18 AD.
I guess we could also Rename to "Marcomannic kings" if we wanted to. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:02, 28 May 2023 (UTC)- s:en:Ab_excessu_divi_Augusti_(Annales)/Liber_II#LXII s:en:The_Annals_(Tacitus)/Book_2#62
- Tacitus repeatedly identifies Maroboduus as a "king":
- 26:
regemque Maroboduum/king Maroboduus
- 44:
set Maroboduum regis nomen invisum apud popularis/But the title of king rendered Maroboduus hated among his countrymen
- 45:
e regno etiam Marobodui/(even) from the kingdom of Maroboduus
.
- 26:
- Tacitus does not explicitly identify Catualda as a "king", but it is clear that he temporarily took Maroboduus' place on the Marcomanni throne. Translators Church & Brodribb 1876 add the word 'king' and 'kings' in two places not found in the original Latin, however.
- 62:
Catualda, profugus olim vi Marobodui et
tunc dubiis rebus (lit. 'when in doubtful circumstances')eius ultionem ausus./Catualda [had] formerly been driven into exile by the might of Maroboduus, and who now,
when the king's fortunes were declining,ventured on revenge. He (...) burst into the palace and into an adjacent fortress.
This is Catualda displacing Maroboduus from his seat of power, driving him into exile in Italy. - 63
(...) Maroboduus, now utterly deserted, had no resource but in the mercy of Caesar. (...) as a most famous king in former days [clarissimum quondam regem] (...) Maroboduus was kept at Ravenna.
Catualda had a like downfall and no better refuge. Driven out soon afterwards (...) he was received and sent to Forum Julii, a colony of Narbonensian Gaul. The barbarians who followed the two
kings...[barbari utrumque comirati...]
.
- 62:
- So while Tacitus never explicitly calls him a rex (as the translators do), he treats Catualda and Maroboduus the same, as men who came into power within the Marcomanni kingdom, then had a downfall and had to go in exile in the Roman Empire. Scholars:
- Gowing (1990) p. 325-326 analysed how Tacitus' goal was to show the Roman client king system didn't work, that Maroboduus was
simply another failed client king
, and thatTacitus notes that Catualda soon suffered the same fate as his predecessor and was later settled together with his followers across the Danube
. - Tejral (2018) similarly writes:
...antique written reports on retinues of the deposed barbarian rulers Maroboduus and soon after him Catualda, who were settled by the Romans on the barbarian shore of the Danube...
. - András Mócsy (2014), p. 14:
Tiberius had Maroboduus overthrown by Drusus. The German king fled to the empire, where he was granted asylum and interned in Ravenna. Shortly afterwards the new king, Catualda, who had been installed by Drusus, was also overthrown, and he, too,, was given asylum in the empire.
Gowing points out that Tacitus omitted to mention that Drusus (Drusus Julius Caesar, son of Tiberius) was the one behind the resettlement arrangement of emperor Tiberius' ally Maroboduus (which he does mention about Vannius, Claudius' ally), and Mócsy concludes that Catualda was Drusus' ally, that Drusus was behind Catualda's overthrow of Maroboduus (Tiberius' former ally), and Catualda thus became the new Marcomanni king as a client of Drusus (Seager 2005 drew the same conclusion). Gowing observed that in each of these three cases, a Roman general failed to assist the client king that was their ally, and after the expulsion of each client king, he sought refuge with this Roman general who was supposed to have protected him.
- Gowing (1990) p. 325-326 analysed how Tacitus' goal was to show the Roman client king system didn't work, that Maroboduus was
- That should suffice. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:31, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
- Jeez, @Nederlandse Leeuw:, I would have accepted "Yes"! Rename & Reparent per nom and detailed reply. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:53, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry! I got a little carried away. :p Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:58, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
- Jeez, @Nederlandse Leeuw:, I would have accepted "Yes"! Rename & Reparent per nom and detailed reply. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:53, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
- As far as the Romans were concerned, yes. He deposed king Marboduus in order to take his place. He reigned for a brief time. Article Vibilius has him as a "king":
- Rename and re-parent per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:25, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:6th-century rulers of Brittany
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 23:51, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:4th-century rulers of Brittany to Category:4th-century monarchs of Brittany
- Propose renaming Category:5th-century rulers of Brittany to Category:5th-century monarchs of Brittany
- Propose renaming Category:6th-century rulers of Brittany to Category:6th-century monarchs of Brittany
- Propose renaming Category:7th-century rulers of Brittany to Category:7th-century monarchs of Brittany
- Propose renaming Category:9th-century rulers of Brittany to Category:9th-century monarchs of Brittany
- Propose renaming Category:10th-century rulers of Brittany to Category:10th-century monarchs of Brittany
- Re-parent All from Category:Foo-th-century rulers in Europe to Category:Foo-th-century monarchs in Europe
- Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Monarchs of Brittany. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:19, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support Per WP:C2C. I'd also be open to merging some of these per WP:SMALLCAT in a subsequent nomination. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:50, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename per nom and concur with RevelationDirect on smallcat issue. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:27, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Dutch manuscripts
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 23:57, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Dutch manuscripts to Category:Dutch-language manuscripts
- Nominator's rationale: To match actual contents. "Dutch" was mistaken to be "about the Netherlands" (by topic) and "in the Netherlands" (by area/location), including the Category:Manuscripts of Leiden University Library, which, however, is in Category:Manuscripts by collection. Renaming to Category:Dutch-language manuscripts thus also avoids future confusion about what "Dutch" means here. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:38, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment/Question More specifically, 5 of the 6 are in Middle Dutch. (De Gruytters carillon book is the exception.) @Nederlandse Leeuw: Would it make sense to make this more specific and purge the 1 outlier? - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:00, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Only if we found enough other items for a different category to put the outlier in. Per Marcocapelle we shouldn't orphan De Gruytters carillon book. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:10, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename as nominated. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:55, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
- Only if we found enough other items for a different category to put the outlier in. Per Marcocapelle we shouldn't orphan De Gruytters carillon book. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:10, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename per nom. I don't think it is a good idea to orphan one of these articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:30, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Former Critics of Islam
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 23:58, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: This currently holds Joram van Klaveren, a former critic who converted to Islam. There exists Category:Former Muslim critics of Islam (former Muslims who became critics) but no other "former" categories in Category:Critics of religions. I have added the member page to Dutch critics of Islam. – Fayenatic London 21:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- If not deleted, the page should be renamed to Category:Former critics of Islam. – Fayenatic London 21:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, with no objection against re-creation if populated with at least 3 items, and a lowercase c per Fayenatic. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:55, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Former Muslim critics of Islam means: "people who used to be Muslim, but are no longer Muslim, and nowadays criticise Islam". It does not mean: "Muslims who used to criticise Islam in the past, but nowadays no longer criticise Islam." Misinterpretation is understandable in this case, although the category trees should be clear. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:55, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Technically, van Klaveren is a "former Christian critic of Islam": when he was a Christian, he criticised Islam. But then he converted to Islam and (obviously) stopped criticising it. Although it is possible for any adherent of any religion to criticise (aspects of) their own religion, we usually don't categorise them as such. E.g. Category:Critics of Islamism is full of Muslims who criticise political/theocratic manifestations of Islam, but not necessary the religion as a whole, which they tend to consider a private matter. If van Klaveren publishes a book tomorrow criticising ISIS or the Ayatollah regime of Iran, we may well put him in Category:Critics of Islamism. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:02, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete Per WP:SMALLCAT for now. I am unsure if this would be defining if we had a larger group. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:01, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, in general "former critics" of anything is barely defining. Under normal circumstances people do not publicly announce they stop criticizing. In this particular case it is the conversion that is defining, not stopping criticism. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:42, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Well said. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:12, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:German chronicles
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 5#Category:German chronicles
Category:French chronicles
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 00:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:French chronicles to Category:Chronicles about France
- Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:History books about France. This is in the Category:Works by topic tree. I've split off Category:French-language chronicles to make the distinction clear. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:23, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support Makes it clearer. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:02, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Lithuanian chronicles
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 00:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Lithuanian chronicles to Category:Chronicles about Lithuania
- Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:History books about Lithuania (and Category:Chronicles by topic, which I just added). Compare Category:Latin chronicles about Poland. These chronicles are about Lithuania as a topic; they are not written in Lithuanian or necessarily by Lithuanians. Renaming avoids confusion with Category:Chronicles by language. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:58, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom (possibly further rename to "Grand Duchy of"). I think the article Complete Collection of Russian Chronicles should be moved to the European parent. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:23, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- That last suggestion is a pretty good one, the PSRL collection transcends boundaries and those boundaries have move a lot since the chronicles were written. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Speed skating venues
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 00:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Speed skating venues in Austria to Category:Speed skating venues and Category:Speed skating in Austria
- Propose merging Category:Speed skating venues in Canada to Category:Speed skating in Canada and move Emera Oval to Category:Speed skating venues
- Propose merging Category:Speed skating venues in China to Category:Speed skating in China
- Propose merging Category:Speed skating venues in France to Category:Speed skating venues and Category:Speed skating in France
- Propose merging Category:Speed skating venues in Germany to Category:Speed skating in Germany and move Riessersee to Category:Speed skating venues
- Propose merging Category:Speed skating venues in Italy to Category:Speed skating in Italy and move Ice Rink Piné and Lake Misurina to Category:Speed skating venues
- Propose merging Category:Speed skating venues in Kazakhstan to Category:Speed skating in Kazakhstan
- Propose merging Category:Speed skating venues in the Netherlands to Category:Speed skating in the Netherlands and move Jaap Edenbaan to Category:Speed skating venues
- Propose merging Category:Speed skating venues in Russia to Category:Speed skating in Russia
- Propose merging Category:Speed skating venues in Sweden to Category:Speed skating venues and Category:Speed skating in Sweden
- Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT. –Aidan721 (talk) 15:22, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:32, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge for Now with no objection to recreation if any ever grow to 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:04, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Manuscripts by area
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 18#Category:Manuscripts by area
Outdoor ice hockey venues
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge and delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:09, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose deleting Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues by country
- Propose merging Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues in Canada to Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues
- Propose merging Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues in Hungary to Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues and Category:Ice hockey venues in Hungary
- Propose deleting Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues in the United States
- Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Delete the United States category as it is populated with baseball/football stadiums that have hosted ice hockey events once or sparsely. Move the articles that were primarily ice hockey venues to Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues. –Aidan721 (talk) 14:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support Both per WP:OCVENUE and WP:SMALLCAT. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:08, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Flag literature
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Literature on vexillology. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Flag literature to Category:Literature on vexillology
- Nominator's rationale: Same topic. Category:Literature on vexillology is more specific, and the older of the two. Category:Literature by topic should certainly be kept, but just "Category:Flags" is not specific enough. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:05, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge and add parent per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:14, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support Per WP:OVERLAPCAT. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:09, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Curling venues
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Curling venues in France to Category:Curling venues and Category:Curling in France
- Propose merging Category:Curling venues in Italy to Category:Curling venues and Category:Curling in Italy
- Propose merging Category:Curling venues in Japan to Category:Curling venues and Category:Curling in Japan
- Propose merging Category:Curling venues in Norway to Category:Curling venues and Category:Curling in Norway
- Propose merging Category:Curling venues in Russia to Category:Curling venues and Category:Curling in Russia
- Propose merging Category:Curling venues in South Korea to Category:Curling venues and Category:Curling in South Korea
- Propose merging Category:Curling venues in Sweden to Category:Curling venues and Category:Curling in Sweden
- Propose merging Category:Curling venues in Turkey to Category:Curling venues and Category:Curling in Turkey
- Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:51, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:15, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge for Now With no objection to recreating any that grow to 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:09, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Albanian-speaking countries and territories
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Countries and territories where Albanian is an official language. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Albanian-speaking countries and territories to Category:Countries and territories where Albanian is an official language
- Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language. All 4 items are/were countries/territories where Albanian is/was an official language. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:40, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support less subjective about what percentage need to speak it when, when it's the official status. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:10, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- @RevelationDirect now that you mention it, what should we do about List of Hungarian communities in Vojvodina? It seems to arbitrarily take 5% as "significant", which is full-on WP:OR. All these municipalities have Hungarian as an official language by default because they are situated in the Vojvodina. That seems a much more objective and defining element.
- Its category is Category:Hungarian communities in Serbia. Category:Hungarian-speaking territorial units in Serbia redirects to it, which is a virtually identical name to Category:Hungarian-speaking territorial units in Croatia, which was recently renamed to Category:Populated places in Croatia where Hungarian is an official language. It's also very similar to Category:Hungarian communities in Slovakia, recently renamed to Category:Municipalities in Slovakia where Hungarian is an official language. So I would propose a rename to Category:Municipalities in Serbia where Hungarian is an official language. But I'm afraid the main article List of Hungarian communities in Vojvodina should be WP:TNTd first, because the whole angle of arbitrarily "significant" demographics which it is based on is just, well, arbitrary. What do you think? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:48, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- 5% in that list does seem a little arbitrary, unless "significant minority" is an official term. I'm wondering if the issue is just with the title of that article though: while not everything there would appear to belong in "List of Hungarian communities in Vojvodina", List of communities in Vojvodina by Hungarian population (or something similar) would have more truth in advertising. - RevelationDirect (talk) 11:47, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
- I think "significant minority" is completely WP:OR, and legally irrelevant anyway, because all municipalities in Vojvodina are officially bilingual. (Comparing to other European countries, the threshold percentages at which a minority language is entitled to local co-official status varies from 30% (Belgium) to 15% (Slovakia), but I've never seen as little as 5% before. But again, irrelevant in Vojvodina's case). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:56, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- 5% in that list does seem a little arbitrary, unless "significant minority" is an official term. I'm wondering if the issue is just with the title of that article though: while not everything there would appear to belong in "List of Hungarian communities in Vojvodina", List of communities in Vojvodina by Hungarian population (or something similar) would have more truth in advertising. - RevelationDirect (talk) 11:47, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
- Update siblings about Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil have recently been renamed to ...where Fooian is an official language for the same or similar reasons as in the rationale. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:10, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Polish chronicles
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Chronicles about Poland. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:15, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
Propose merging Category:Polish chronicles to Category:Latin chronicles about Poland
Nominator's rationale: Ok so I created Category:Latin chronicles about Poland as a separate category with the idea of making a distinction between "Latin chronicles about Poland" and "Polish-language chronicles about Poland", but now it turns out that each item in the category was actually in Latin haha. Well I guess the new category I created has a more precise name, and Category:Polish chronicles should be taken out of Category:West Slavic chronicles because there is nothing "Slavic" about texts written in Latin. Other than that, this should just be merged. I do realise, however, that the interwikis may no longer be valid, because e.g. pl:Kategoria:Polskie kroniki has a mix of Latin and Polish-language texts.Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)- Propose renaming Category:Polish chronicles to Category:Chronicles about Poland
- Nominator's rationale (amended): I concluded it is best to rename/rescope this by topic, and treat about Poland as the topic, per WP:C2C parent Category:History books about Poland. See reply to Marcocapelle below for explanation. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:41, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
Merge or reverse merge per nom. Presumably the page history of the older category should be kept.Marcocapelle (talk) 14:20, 27 May 2023 (UTC)- @Marcocapelle I've been thinking a bit more about it, and I've now established Category:Chronicles by topic, in which "about [country]" can be a topic. I've nominated Category:Lithuanian chronicles for renaming to Category:Chronicles about Lithuania, and Category:French chronicles for renaming to Category:Chronicles about France. We could do the same here. Instead of merging, we rename Category:Polish chronicles to Category:Chronicles about Poland, we manually move all items to its child Category:Latin chronicles about Poland, and we just look for non-Latin items to populate it with or wait for someone else to do it. This way we can keep the interwikis as well. Would you agree with changing the nomination that way? If you hadn't commented yet, I may have BOLDly done it already, but you already commented, and I'm worried about creating a SMALLCAT with 0 items and 1 child. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:42, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Nomination amended per rationale given above. Meanwhile, I've also nominated Category:German chronicles to be renamed to Category:Chronicles about Germany. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:43, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support amended proposal, consistent with nomination above and meanwhile other nominations. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Update Sibling Category:Lithuanian chronicles has been renamed to Category:Chronicles about Lithuania; sibling Category:French chronicles has been renamed to Category:Chronicles about France. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:10, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Olympic Egyptian women's beach volleyball players
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:07, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Olympic Egyptian women's beach volleyball players to Category:Olympic beach volleyball players for Egypt and Category:Egyptian women's volleyball players
- Nominator's rationale: Intersection not appearing at other places in the Olympic competitors tree. Kaffet i halsen (talk) 12:09, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:38, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support Really per the spirit of WP:C2C. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:12, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Royal families of the Americas
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: split. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:06, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose splitting Category:Royal families of the Americas to Category:Royal families in North America and Category:Royal families in South America
- Propose splitting Category:Royalty in the Americas to Category:Royalty in North America and Category:Royalty in South America
- Nominator's rationale: there is no reason to create supercontinent categories here, we do not do this for Eurasia either. See also simultaneous CfMs Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_27#Category:Assassinated_politicians_in_the_Americas and Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_27#Category:Monarchs in the Americas. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:06, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Marcocapelle FYI. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:11, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Split per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Split per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:35, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Didn't the Spanish royal family technically span the two continents for a while?★Trekker (talk) 02:15, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- That would not be a defining characteristic for them. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:41, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Sure. But I dont see why categorization by continent is helpful at all in these cases.★Trekker (talk) 07:58, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- It's worth looking at the Category:European monarchs precedent if you'd like to know the rationale behind it. I agree that in the case of monarchs continents are kind of arbitrary, but the current thinking seems to be that the continent in which the monarch usually resided/resides counts. So Margrethe II of Denmark is a monarch in Europe, but not a monarch in North America, despite Greenland (probably also because Greenland is not sovereign). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:55, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
- Sure. But I dont see why categorization by continent is helpful at all in these cases.★Trekker (talk) 07:58, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Monarchs in the Americas
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Monarchs by continent. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:06, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose upmerging Category:Monarchs in the Americas to Category:Monarchs by continent
- Nominator's rationale: there is no reason to create supercontinent categories here, we do not do this for Eurasia either. See also simultaneous CfM Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_27#Category:Assassinated_politicians_in_the_Americas. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Marcocapelle FYI. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:11, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:15, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:35, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:10th-century BC Kings of Syria
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:05, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:10th-century BC Kings of Syria to Category:10th-century BC kings of Aram-Damascus
- Propose renaming Category:9th-century BC Kings of Syria to Category:9th-century BC kings of Aram-Damascus
- Propose renaming Category:8th-century BC Kings of Syria to Category:8th-century BC kings of Aram-Damascus
- Nominator's rationale: rename per actual name of the territory Aram-Damascus. This was part of a broader rename discussion at WP:CFDS. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:45, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
More information copy of speedy discussion ...
copy of speedy discussion |
|---|
|
Close
- @Hey man im josh: pinging nominator at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:49, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:52, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename WP:C2D. Would also be open to merging in a future nom. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:13, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Assassinated politicians in the Americas
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Assassinated politicians by continent. editors don't see the benefit of grouping N and S America. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 01:38, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Assassinated politicians in the Americas to Category:Assassinated politicians by continent
- Nominator's rationale: merge, there is no reason to create supercontinent categories here, we do not do this for Eurasia either. Earlier there was a rename discussion at WP:CFDS, but we can better have that discussion together with the Asian, European and African siblings, maybe later. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:35, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
More information earlier rename discussion at WP:CFDS ...
earlier rename discussion at WP:CFDS |
|---|
|
Close
- @Thinker78, Kaffet i halsen, and StarTrekker: pinging contributors to earlier rename discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:38, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Upmerge per nom. This reminds me, we should probably also upmerge Category:Monarchs in the Americas to Category:Monarchs by continent, and Category:Royalty in the Americas to Category:Royalty by continent, but at the time of renaming (7 March/9 May) we didn't make a decision on that. I'm gonna CfM them now. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:58, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Marcocapelle, you never replied to my earlier comment addressing precisely this view. I copy paste it herein, There are three categories in Category:Assassinated politicians in the Americas and maybe there should be four, including Central Americans. Another difference with Eurasia are the names. North America, South America, Central America. Meaning different parts of the continent America (as it is known in Spanish and other languages except in the United States). Therefore, the similitude is more with Asia – South Asia, Europe – Western Europe.
- Also, do people in Eurasia regularly talk about socioeconomic issues in Eurasia as it is common in reliable sources about the Americas? The New York Times[1], CNN[2], The Guardian[3] have sections of news in the Americas but not Eurasia. Apparently Americas in their view include all the countries from Canada to Argentina, except the US. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 01:20, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- On Wikipedia we categorize everything by country and by the six continents as they are commonly known in the English speaking world. It is redundant to also categorize by a concept like the sum of two continents minus one country, even if that concept is occasionally used as such. We can of course have a category about that concept, Category:Americas, but we do not need to intersect any random topic with it, like assassinated politicians. We should have intersections of Americas with topics that the Americas share but the rest of the world doesn't (although no particular topic comes to my mind.) The same applies to Eurasia, we can have Category:Eurasia, plus intersections with topics that Europe and Asia share in contrast to other continents. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:49, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- You mean in the English speaking world (including India, Australia, the UK, Ireland) or only the USA? Plus you forgot to share reliable sources backing your claim. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 00:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- In addition, regarding Eurasia, you don't hear about North Eurasia, South Eurasia, Central Eurasia commonly like in the case of the Americas (North America, South America, meaning the north and south of America). Therefore I don't think it is a proper analogy. In Latin America, America is the continent spanning from Alaska to Argentina. For some reason the USA appropriated the term for itself. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 00:23, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- If you think the continent categories should contain Americas instead of North America and South America you may try an RFC. Having North and South America separately is an established convention in Wikipedia, but I would not mind if that convention changes. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:49, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Actually I placed not only North America and South America in the Category:Assassinated politicians in the Americas but also Central America and the Caribbean. I noticed you moved them back to North America. That is another discussion to have. Regarding RFC, What not to use the RfC process for. This page is the rfc for categories. Btw, can you give me some reference about North America and South America division being the convention? I am amenable to follow what English reliable sources take for the most standard count of continents in the world. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 20:30, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support the merge. Per Continent, The seven-continent model is taught in most English-speaking countries, including Australia,[4] Canada, the United Kingdom,[5] and the United States, and also in Bangladesh, China, India, Indonesia, Japan, Pakistan, the Philippines, Suriname, parts of Europe and Africa. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 04:46, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- Actually I placed not only North America and South America in the Category:Assassinated politicians in the Americas but also Central America and the Caribbean. I noticed you moved them back to North America. That is another discussion to have. Regarding RFC, What not to use the RfC process for. This page is the rfc for categories. Btw, can you give me some reference about North America and South America division being the convention? I am amenable to follow what English reliable sources take for the most standard count of continents in the world. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 20:30, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- If you think the continent categories should contain Americas instead of North America and South America you may try an RFC. Having North and South America separately is an established convention in Wikipedia, but I would not mind if that convention changes. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:49, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- On Wikipedia we categorize everything by country and by the six continents as they are commonly known in the English speaking world. It is redundant to also categorize by a concept like the sum of two continents minus one country, even if that concept is occasionally used as such. We can of course have a category about that concept, Category:Americas, but we do not need to intersect any random topic with it, like assassinated politicians. We should have intersections of Americas with topics that the Americas share but the rest of the world doesn't (although no particular topic comes to my mind.) The same applies to Eurasia, we can have Category:Eurasia, plus intersections with topics that Europe and Asia share in contrast to other continents. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:49, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
References
- "F-10 Curriculum Geograph". Australian Curriculum, Assessment, and Reporting Authority. Archived from the original on 24 March 2014.
- "National curriculum in England: geography programmes of study". UK Department for Education.
- Upmerge per WP:OCLOCATION. I can't see the navigational benefit of a 2 category grouping by hemisphere. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
- Note: see also Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_3#Category:Assassinated_Pan-American_presidents. – Fayenatic London 09:01, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Eureka (American TV series)
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Eureka (2006 TV series). (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:14, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Eureka (American TV series) to Category:Eureka (2006 TV series)
- Nominator's rationale: rename using a far clearer disambiguation, in order to distinguish it from Eureka! (2022 TV series). This was opposed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:18, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
More information copy of speedy discussion ...
copy of speedy discussion |
|---|
|
Close
- @Gonnym, Armbrust, and Fayenatic london: pinging contributors to speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:20, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:12, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename. I had meant to process this from the Speedy page under C2B. – Fayenatic London 10:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Hard science fiction
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 15#Category:Hard science fiction
Bandy players in Finland by club
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:14, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT. All players are already in Category:Finnish bandy players. –Aidan721 (talk) 00:19, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:35, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:17, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Bandy venues
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:15, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Bandy venues in Hungary to Category:Bandy venues and Category:Bandy in Hungary
- Propose merging Category:Bandy venues in Kazakhstan to Category:Bandy venues and Category:Bandy in Kazakhstan and move Yunost Stadium (Oral) to Category:Sports venues in Kazakhstan
- Propose merging Category:Bandy venues in the United States to Category:Bandy venues and Category:Bandy in the United States
- Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Do not need to merge to Sports venues in country (except the one noted case) as they are already in that tree. –Aidan721 (talk) 00:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:36, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge for now With no objection to recreating if any ever reach 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:17, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.