Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 124

Summary of dispute by Pluto2012

• Comment - FYI : a similar issue based on complaint against Nishidani's behaviour was raised by Settleman on wp:an/I 10 days ago and the long discussion leads to a WP:BOOMERANG and mentorship proposal for Settleman to which he hasn't answered whereas he keeps editing numerous articles and whereas he opened this WP:DRN. Settleman also raised similar comments (content, behaviour) on the at ArbCom. The content isse was discussed at length in the talk page with several points kept unanswered by Settleman. All this is just Wikipedia:Forumshop. There is no reason to start discussing here until the WP:AN/I case is closed. It is up to Settleman to decide if he agrees the mentorship. Pluto2012 (talk) 06:06, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Nableezy

A reliable source specifically links the material that Settleman objects to, using this incident as an example of a wider pattern. The material by the Israeli defense minister however isnt about this attack, he is making a general statement about most extremist right wing Jews not being settlers, but not saying that the arsonists are not settlers. The pertinent part of his statement, that the attack hurt the position of the settlers, is already included in the article. nableezy - 16:23, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Nishidani

This has been discussed exhaustively on the talk page. It is a matter of a straightforward construal of English grammar, which does not allow the inference that Settleman and Igorp, both non-native speakers, lend to Ya'alon's statement. I always find quoting politicians in a murder case ridiculously unencyclopedic. Our job as editors, unlike politicians, is not to comfort or absolve constituencies, but to provide them with facts. I would abolish were I a dictator all 'Reactions' comments from Wikipedia articles. One should stick to the key elements of the mystery. Don't take this as a willingness to participate here, but simply as a courtesy note in response to the query on my page.Nishidani (talk) 11:20, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Huldra

I agree with Nableezy: "The material by the Israeli defense minister however isnt about this attack, he is making a general statement about most extremist right wing Jews not being settlers, but not saying that the arsonists are not settlers." To me what Moshe Ya'alon says here, sounds more like "wishful thinking", especially when the people named in relation to this attack happens to be settlers. Huldra (talk) 23:59, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Igorp_lj

Let's see what current revision^[4] does include, noting that even for such minor edit as "immediately suspected Jews <= Jewish settlers", some editors insist ("They didn't suspect Jews, as a whole, but Jewish settlers, of course"; "sources say settlers") on settlers' blaming, despite a fact that already existed RS prove the opposite:

• J. arsonits/extremists + "settler terrorism" @Arikat [11] NYT
• attack/radicals/settlers/assailants [19] (Daraghmeh+)
• terror/violence/extremists/militants [20] ("They tend to reject authority, including the mainstream settler movement leadership")
• extremists/terrorists[21] (Dubai)
• extremists/terrorists[22] (Harkov)

and so on:

• the flagship of the ideological settler movement (regarding to another incident: "That same Monday night, July 27, rioting broke out at the settlement of Beit El, considered the flagship of the ideological settler movement") [20][24]
• at least 120 settler attacks have been documented [38] (AJ based on Yesh Din's data)
• to extend to Palestinian victims of Jewish terrorism [36]; Jewish terror[29]

Here's a POV, what is mainly represented in the current version of article.
Unfortunately, for some editors, such words as 'settler', an entire spectrum of the Israeli right-wing media and NGOs sound like curses. And this concerns not only settlers. It comes to a ridiculous: for some editor, a journalist, writing for many RS, isn't RS because she works in [Sderot], as well as PhD (International Politics) - because he doesn't work for "proper" media, and the 3rd - because he is "The National board chairman of the ZOA (so ?) and "a clinical professor...",
but "his" some anonymous & Rotem - an "Israeli activist, high-tech executive and author of the blog" - is RS. His

• "we use sources that give facts, with linkable and verifiable sources which Rotem / Brown provide"

what isn't correct : their "facts" based mainly on +972 links itself & on a sister's Mekomit, and rarely - on B'tselem+ data.

It'd OK, if it remains as their POV only, but they work hard to prevent access to Wikipedia of any info with which they disagree. Actually, they just hurt Wiki, making it not RS when remain in it what doesn't represent a real information about what happens in Israel and in the region as a whole.

That's why I consider it's necessary to return to the article not only Makor Rishon's information^[1], but the folowing one from Arutz Sheva confirmed by Hebrew sources:

• "Yaalon ... noted that the suspects are not at all connected to Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria - or even to the so-called "Price Tag" movement."

P.S. It's interesting what will say same editors when I add to the article the following Ben-Dror Yemini's opinion: ) :)

117 events didn’t turn Netherlands into a racist country. With us, a much smaller number of events leads to countless articles about a violent and racist society.
The nationalist-religious tribe has absorbed the majority of criticism regarding the rise of nationalistic extremism. But the attempt to connect the “price tag” (the name given to certain acts of vandalism aimed at Palestinians by Jewish nationalists) hooligans, or the ones responsible for the two aforementioned murders, to the wider religious public is tenuous.

P.P.S Nableezy's "Every single other person to comment on this ... has agreed that Yaalon's statement on extremist right wing Jews is not is relevant" - isn't correct. See my: "In fact, all sources say the same things, the only difference is what they do present, depending ... on its orientation" (23:30, 11 September 2015) Sorry, more than 2k. :( --Igorp_lj (talk) 09:08, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Duma arson attack#Ya'alon on Jewish extremists discussion

• Volunteer note - There has been considerable discussion on the article talk page for more than a week. It appears that the primary issue is whether a statement by the Israeli Defense Minister should be included in the article. In view of the length of the discussion and the number of parties, concise summaries of the dispute by the parties would be very helpful. Please comment on content, not contributors. (Remember that disruptive editing is subject to discretionary sanctions under WP:ARBPIA.) I am neither accepting nor declining this case. We are waiting for concise summaries of the dispute from the other editors. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:18, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

  Accepted as primarily focus for DRN case for now. --JustBerry (talk) 22:48, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

•  Note to participants: Also, please make your summaries specific to what the core issue is and the precise locations of the dispute. --JustBerry (talk) 02:10, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
• Question: @Settleman: What exactly do you mean by "generic" or "generic information" in your case summary? Also, please clarify "It is generic since they don't know the identity of the attackers." Thirdly, to clarify, are you objecting to the material included or only to the exclusion of the statement you provided in your case summary? --JustBerry (talk) 21:21, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Volunteer - Please answer the request for clarification, don't shift and deflect it. Nableezy has only argued on the grounds of "general statement" not "generic" which are your own words for we-don't-know-what, hence JustBerry's request for you to clarify. Drcrazy102 (talk) 17:19, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

I have changed all 'generic' to 'general'. I can't see how a general statement said by the highest authority for the investigation does not belong. What policy is it based on? Even worse, other general information mentioned by biased sources gets in. So I would like other party to answer directly (1) what policy is the base of Ya'alon removal? (2) If 'general' (which isn't a policy) is enough to remove Ya'alon, why are the other two statement included? Settleman (talk) 11:07, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

• Question: @Nableezy: You mention "using this incident as an example of a wider pattern." Can you elaborate on what exactly you mean? --JustBerry (talk) 21:21, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
•  To DRN volunteers: Discussion is open, but further clarification is being requested to demystify the content issue. Any other volunteers should feel free to ask clarification questions or make comments on case observations as they see fit. --JustBerry (talk) 21:21, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
• Question: -  To DRN volunteers: - Following the revelation of several Admin-related cases being open around Settleman et al., should this discussion be kept open or have the related cases been resolved? Currently working from my phone or I would check further myself. Thanks Drcrazy102 (talk) 08:56, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

• Withdrawing question: Admin-related cases are either not related or have been informally resolved. The Workshop Proposals by Settleman are not directly related, only tangentially, and do not impgune on either content or behaviour as otherwise suggested; the section Incidents#Proposed_WP:BOOMERANG_for_User:Settleman has been informally resolved (ATM) here (on AN/I) and here (on Settleman's Talk Page). Apologies for hassle, phone hates me ATM. Thanks go to JustBerry for helping me here. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 01:40, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

•  Resolved No worries. --JustBerry (talk) 01:46, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

•  To DRN volunteers: @Drcrazy102: Since the dispute is truly content-based, it is not a bad idea to continue the DRN discussion further. --JustBerry (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
• Checking... @Drcrazy102: Considering the additional case summaries that have come in, I will check to see if this particular dispute has already been addressed elsewhere conclusively. --JustBerry (talk) 16:27, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
• Likely to continue discussion. --JustBerry (talk) 21:19, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Agreed - have finely gotten laptop back up and running, checked the pages and they have been mostly resolved or are not related. See above for further comments. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 01:40, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

@Nishidani: Ya'alon isn't just 'a politician', he is Minister of Defense which makes him involved in the investigation. It was said during briefing to reporters specifically about the investigation. Settleman (talk) 11:35, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

@Pluto2012, Nableezy, Nishidani, Huldra, and Igorp lj: Pinging for discussion. Right now, seems Inconclusive. --JustBerry (talk) 21:43, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Inconclusive ?

I may only remind that Yaalon's words about settlers do have been said just during his statement about the arson's investigation:

"In a briefing to reporters at the HaKirya minister of defense said the arson attack hurt the state of Israel and the settlement community in particular. He noted that "there was a actual condemnation from settlers leaders to the attack, but we need to know most of those extreme right wingers are not residents of Judea and Samaria, and certainly do not represent the settlement communities over there." I hope this clarify the fact he said it directly about the attack and not in a political convention. Settleman (talk) 18:58, 15 September 2015 ^[1]

So such Nableezy & Huldra's claim as "The material by the Israeli defense minister however isnt about this attack" simply isn't correct. --Igorp_lj (talk) 14:51, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

@Mark Miller: Pinging for additional weigh-in for case, esp. new evidence. --JustBerry (talk) 17:36, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Let me look but, off hand, it appears that only one of the participants is for inclusion and the rest are against it. The source looks like a blog run by a single person but not clear.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:44, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

• "only one of the participants" (@Mark Miller:) as min two: me & @Settleman:.
• "a blog run by a single person" - pls, check Makor Rishon and our arguments. --Igorp_lj (talk) 19:18, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

The info appeared on several papers in Hebrew as I mentioned on the talk page. ALL involved editors in this conversation have strong bias on way or another so the numbers are important but rather the POV of an objective reader/editor. Settleman (talk) 19:23, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

I have reviewed the above sources presented here and none of them cover the claims or the quote.--Mark Miller (talk) 17:20, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Igorp lj. I was not clear on what side you fell. I need you to link to the actual article at the online newspaper below my reply. Then I need you to direct me to where it shows the writing staff, the editorial board etc. At last I saw, this was in bankruptcy. Who own the publication now and who is running the online site? Remember that to demonstrate that the source is reliable you must show how the summary is supported by the source, that the publisher is reliable, with editorial oversight and that the author has expertise in the area. next, the context of the information is important as well. Each one of these criteria effect the reliability of the source.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:58, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

The paper does not have an online version though some of it's articles are published on Nrg Maariv. It seems to be owned by Israel Hayom, Israel's most circulated paper, now. For current news it is as reliable as other daily papers.

The text I wish to include is a short quote of Ya'alon from the article so there is nothing to confirm but the translation. Settleman (talk) 21:44, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

All references must be available to access. If this was only published online and that article is no longer there and verifiable, it may not be used as a source.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:07, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

The construal of what 'those' in 'those extreme right wingers are not residents of Judea and Samaria' was made by Nableezy on the talk page. English is his native language and I refer mediators to that discussion. Any number of sources will inform the interested that a large number of extremist settlers are known to live in specific West Bank settlements (Noam Federman, Baruch Marzel at Tel Rumeida, the Od Yosef Chai yeshiva at Yitzhar, Bat Ayin, Yitzchak Ginsburgh etc etc etc. Many scholars would argue as had Amos N. Guiora, Professor of Law at the University of Utah, in his Freedom from Religion: Rights and National Security, (Oxford University Press, 2013 p.96) that 'those extremists are becoming the contemporary face, voice and leadership of the settler movement'. In that context Ya'alon can be read as flying in the face of certain realities, analysed in numerous books, from Ian Lustick's For the Land and the Lord: Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel, (Foreign Relations Council 1998)onwards and might be thought to be saying 'the extremists who killed the Palestinian family' (he knows who they are but can't arrest them probably because one of the group is an infiltrated government agent present at the scene, according to leaks) are not in the West Bank, implying however that other extremists are, but, they did not perpetrate this particular killing. Settleman is taking this as a necessary exculpation of the settler movement in general as non-violent. That's one of the major driving points of his presence on Wikipedia, to give the settler perspective. The last implication is not necessarily what Ya'alon is saying, in any case. With a statement so oblique and obscure, and evidently spoken to placate anxieties among Ya'alon's political constituency in the West Bank, such ambiguous and primarily ritual waffle is wholly pointless and obscurantist for an encyclopedic article that should focus on the facts, not on political blague.Nishidani (talk) 22:26, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

In an article having statistics on 'settler violence' before the facts are known, a quote saying "wait a minute, these people don't represent a community of over half million people" is simple WP:BALANCE. I have added a short quote not a statement and it isn't the job of any one editor to decides/he doesn't like it. Me giving 'the settler perspective' is neccessary when other editors are focus on anti-settler, anti-Israel and anti-******** prospectives. How will WP ever reach neutrality if only one is present? Settleman (talk) 07:49, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

'Me giving 'the settler perspective' is neccessary when other editors are focus on anti-settler, anti-Israel and anti-******** prospectives. '

The asterisks imply 'anti-Semitism' and the whole line, read in the context of this edit attributing to me the desire 'to smear Israel' (retracted at my request only to be repeated here as a generalization regarding all editors he disagrees with, is one reason why this dispute resolution process is futile. Any editor who comes to Wikipedia and begins dismissing experienced editors who disagree on specifics as 'anti-Israel' and 'anti-********(Semitic) has a battleground POV so deep that arguing with it is pointless.Nishidani (talk) 12:17, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Is the source "questionable"?

According to WP:BURDEN:

"All content must be verifiable. The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and is satisfied by providing a citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution.^[1]"

References

1. [1]

   Once an editor has provided any source that he or she believes, in good faith, to be sufficient, then any editor who later removes the material has an obligation to articulate specific problems that would justify its exclusion from Wikipedia (e.g., undue emphasis on a minor point, unencyclopedic content, etc.). All editors are then expected to help achieve consensus, and any problems with the text or sourcing should be fixed before the material is added back.

and per WP:NOTRS:

Questionable sources are those that have a poor reputation for checking the facts, lack meaningful editorial oversight, or have an apparent conflict of interest.^[1]

Such sources include websites and publications expressing views that are widely considered by other sources to be extremist or promotional, or that rely heavily on unsubstantiated gossip, rumor or personal opinion. Questionable sources should only be used as sources of material on themselves, especially in articles about themselves; see below. They are not suitable sources for contentious claims about others.

References

1. [1]

   Sources that may have interests other than professional considerations in the matter being reported are considered to be conflicted sources. Further examples of sources with conflicts of interest include but are not limited to articles by any media group that promote the holding company of the media group or discredit its competitors; news reports by journalists having financial interests in the companies being reported or in their competitors; material (including but not limited to news reports, books, articles and other publications) involved in or struck down by litigation in any country, or released by parties involved in litigation against other involved parties, during, before or after the litigation; and promotional material released through media in the form of paid news reports. For definitions of sources with conflict of interest:

   • The Columbia Center for New Media Teaching and Learning, Columbia University mentions: "A conflict of interest involves the abuse – actual, apparent, or potential – of the trust that people have in professionals. The simplest working definition states: A conflict of interest is a situation in which financial or other personal considerations have the potential to compromise or bias professional judgment and objectivity. An apparent conflict of interest is one in which a reasonable person would think that the professional's judgment is likely to be compromised. A potential conflict of interest involves a situation that may develop into an actual conflict of interest. It is important to note that a conflict of interest exists whether or not decisions are affected by a personal interest; a conflict of interest implies only the potential for bias, not a likelihood. It is also important to note that a conflict of interest is not considered misconduct in research, since the definition for misconduct is currently limited to fabrication, falsification, and plagiarism."
   • The New York Times Company forwards this understanding: "Conflicts of interest, real or apparent, may come up in many areas. They may involve the relationships of staff members with readers, news sources, advocacy groups, advertisers, or competitors; with one another, or with the newspaper or its parent company. And at a time when two-career families are the norm, the civic and professional activities of spouses, family and companions can create conflicts or the appearance of conflicts."

It appears to me that the reference has no author information, the online article is no longer online with no known offline printed publication, the source when printed seems to fit that of a tabloid and does appear to fulfill some of the criteria for being questionable even if the article itself is found.

I'd like to hear from both editors as to why they think this passes criteria for use please.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:22, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Look, not every dispute needs much discussion if one cannot demonstrate within Wikipedia policy and guidelines exactly how they have proven their burden. It is the opinion of this volunteer that this dispute is not validated as the burden of evidence has not been met. I request the input of other volunteers. It is my opinion that there is no reliable source to verify this content and that it must be excluded on that basis. It is the opinion of the volunteer that the arguments against inclusion are the rough consensus of editors. If no other opinions by a volunteer disagree, I am ready to close this dispute as resolved as the burden of evidence has not been met.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:19, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

How are you closing this on RS ground when the sides didn't even bring it up as an issue??? I can't see how it fails WP:NEWSORG. Makor Rishon is an OFFLINE newspaper held by the same publisher of Israel Hayom. The article in question was PRINTED in it and cannot be found online. For an article about a current event, an 18 years old newspaper should be more than acceptable. Settleman (talk) 07:39, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I am closing because a rough consensus already exists to exclude the content. That alone is enough to close a DRN request; when a consensus exists. The truth is, there was already a consensus on the talk. The same editors agreeing to exclude for various reasons and two editors supporting inclusion. You admit the online source is no longer online and are not sure if it is archived or not. That really does come down to not being able to fulfill the burden criteria. Wikipedia does not require that sources be online. They may be offline, book and journal sources, but we do require that online sources be accessible. It must be able to be accessed to be verified, even if it requires a paywall or purchase of a book etc. It isn't about the content. It is about the ability to cite a reference to make the claim. That's just WP:V. It may be something else others may not have mentioned but: " All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed. Please remove contentious material about living people that is unsourced or poorly sourced immediately." The two supporting editors have not been able to convince the others based on the merits of the content but, just because no mention of policy has been used, does not mean there are no real violations that must be addressed. Violation of the WP:V and WP:BLP. The source does not meet referencing standards to verify it. That is one issue, but it also lacks authorship, which alone weakens the source. I could go on, but the point is, a rough consensus already existed and burden has truly not been met. Besides all that, it is an exceptional claim and a BLP issue which requires multiple strong sources. This falls very short of that.--Mark Miller (talk) 17:05, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Umpire Empire

At the Evangelos Zappas entry, Rolandi+ submitted three sources that, in passing, mention Zappas as a "Vlach" (very broad term applied to different groups) or an "Aromanian" with no biographical evidence to support the labels. In fact, all three sources fail to meet the rigorous standards of WP:RS. In the article, the mainstream/specialist sources that specifically focus on Zappas and the modern Olympics all classify Zappas as a Greek (there is no "Aromanian theory" espoused by mainstream/specialist scholars because there are no hard facts to support one). Umpire Empire (talk) 18:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Evangelos Zappas#Aromanian_origin discussion

•  Note to participants: @Rolandi+: Please note that it is not the duty of DRN volunteers to add content to articles, rather to resolve the dispute at hand and arrive at a conclusion or resolution of some form. --JustBerry (talk) 15:28, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
• Question: @Rolandi+: It appears that the evaluation of reliable sources seems to be part of the problem here. Besides the three sources you have provided on the article talk page for substantiating your claim, can you provide reliable biographical evidence proving his Aromanian origin? To clarify, the sources should not merely make references to his Aromanian origin. --JustBerry (talk) 21:25, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
•  To DRN volunteers: Although the discussion is open for contribution by DRN volunteers, the question above is seeking further clarification from an involved party prior to making a fuller evaluation of the situation at hand. However, in the meantime, feel free to note any observations. --JustBerry (talk) 21:34, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
•  Note to participants: If both are theories and both have credible sources would it not be appropriate to simply include information about both theories in the article and let the reader decide which one(s) to research? Wiki-Impartial (talk) 13:39, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
•  To DRN volunteers: @Wiki-Impartial: It could. Perhaps the situation can marked as resolved with the conclusion of including information about both theories after Rolandi+'s clarification to the question above. Discussing the rationale may be important to evaluate the credibility of the theory in question. --JustBerry (talk) 16:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
• @JustBerry: Firstly my sources are mainstream scholars and you can easily verify it.Secondly vlachs in Albania and Greece are called "Aromanians".Umpire Emipre says that he uses only "mainstream" scholars as reference for his claims,but there is no mainstream scholar in this world who says that vlachs are greeks!

As all sources referring to his origin (greek or aromanian) don't give an detailed biography the best thing to do is to include all theories in the article.In fact Labove e Madhe (the village where he was born) is inhabitated only by Albanians and Vlachs and the Romanian government finances an Aromanian educative center in the village.There is no greek school or anything else in this village.As Wikipedia needs to be neutral,including both theories in the article is the best choice.Rolandi+ (talk) 10:23, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

•  Note to participants: @Rolandi+: Can you explain how an Aromanian educative center makes a person Aromanian necessarily? Do you have sources that point to him identifying himself as Aromanian or that part of his family identified themselves as/were Aromanian? Although it is important to include multiple perspectives, it is also important to give due weight to a particular perspective. A probable compromise might be including information on his attendance to an Aromanian educative center, as you pointed out in your last comment, instead of making the claim that he himself is Aromanian. --JustBerry (talk) 22:44, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Aloha. I'm Mark Miller (formerly Amadscientist) a volunteer here at the DRN. While it appears many of the requirements for accepting disputes have been met, the one issue I feel strongly about is the lack of extensive discussion. A cursory glance at the dispute seems to center around what the original text in a biographical article that involves the modern Olympics as well as the ethnic identity of the subject, Evangelos Zappas. The text involved is: "Evangelis Zappas was born of Greek or Aromanian ancestry". Aromanians have a specific origin. What the sources seem to be saying, and what appears to be the basis for the claim of Aromanian ancestry is a term used in the sources; "Vlachs". Here is the issue, the term is widespread; this term is sometimes used outside Greece to encompass all Latin-descended peoples of the Balkans, including the modern-day Romanians. Vlach is a blanket term covering several modern Latin peoples descending from the Latinized population of the Balkans So, it appears that this is saying he either was or was not Greek by a broad concept term repeated but not clearly defined as Aromanian, an ethnic group that should be clearly defined by a strict criteria dependent on genealogy and/or ancestry.

I have some concerns about the way the discussion got off and I can see why editors may be unwilling to interact, but I encourage editors to restart the discussion back at the talk page of the article. I think there needs to be far more calm, collaborative discussion here.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:51, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

• @JustBerry: Vlachs in the northern Greece and in the southern Albania are called and self-identified as "Aromanians".(However if the other editors think that using the word "Vlach" is more correct I am ready to use the word "Vlach") Vlachs are an ethnic group different from the greeks so including the Aromanian theory is needed to keep the neutrality.Aromanians are an ethnic group,not just an cultural community.This way we need to include his ethnic origin in the article (Greek and Aromanian theories),not informations on his attendance to an particular educative center.Rolandi+ (talk) 15:38, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

First, we must be sure how the sources are using the term and why. Then we must determine if the subject falls within that ethnic background. Just because a source calls a person a "Vlach" does not mean they are not Greek. However...and this is important, we must be confident that the "theory" (sorry for the scare quotes. I use them to emphasize this is not my term) is a part of the current, main stream, academic consensus. Then, if it is, how much weight to give is determined by how much weight is given to the claim by academia in general. If this is determined to be fringe theory it would get no coverage in the article. If it is simply not widespread within academic circles, then it must be handled with due weight in our text on Wikipedia (that can differ depending on the strength of the multiple sources). Let us also be clear. Claiming that the founder of the modern Olympic Games is not Greek, is an exceptional claim and requires, not just multiple sources...but multiple strong sources. In my opinion the term used to add the claim to the article from the sources are not enough to make a claim such as this, due to the inconsistent definition of the term "Vlach". Sources would have to specifically call the subject "Aromanian" for the text to claim such and if the claim of just the term is not agreed upon by experts, then we have to decide what due weight, if any, to give the information.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:37, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh and one other thing all editors must be aware of is our BLP policy regarding groups of people (WP:BLPGROUP). In this case we are challenging the ancestry of an entire line that may well have living members today. We must remember to use sensitivity.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:05, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

• Question: @Umpire Empire: Would you like to comment on the case? --JustBerry (talk) 20:52, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
•  To DRN volunteers: It should be noted that this user has not contributed to Wikipedia for approximately five days now. Looking at their previous editing history, it may take some time to get a response from the user. --JustBerry (talk) 20:52, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

@JustBerry: Thank you for asking me to comment. So far, you and Mark Miller are managing things well and I commend you both on your efforts towards resolving this dispute. But to keep things brief, I agree with Mark Miller that the claim of Evangelos Zappas being a Vlach and/or Aromanian is an extraordinary claim and that Rolandi+ must submit multiple strong sources to support the claim. I'll say it again, the "sources" (i.e., Kaphetzopoulos, Smerlas, Thomopoulos) submitted by Rolandi+ are unreliable because they provide zero biographical/historical facts to support classifying Zappas as a Vlach and/or an Aromanian. For an Aromanian and/or Vlach origin to be included in the entry, the burden of proof lies with Rolandi+ where the user must submit sources that meet WP:RS (among other Wikipedia policies) or at least meet the following basic criteria: 1) sources must be reliable and impartial (i.e., statements supported by historical facts and hard evidence), 2) sources must be from scholarly experts who focus and specifically study Evangelos Zappas and the modern Olympics, 3) sources cannot contain self-contradictory information where source X, for example, claims that Zappas is ethnically Greek on one page and then claims that he is ethnically Romanian on a separate page. I hope this helps. Umpire Empire (talk) 22:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Umpire Empire, lets be fair though, the information was sourced and the sources seem to be from reliable authors and publishers. If editors were to agree on the text, those sources would be sufficient to make the claim that the subject was of a "Vlach" (especially if there are multiple sources for just that claim) background, but could not be used to state anything further unless the source is specific. Other sources that claim otherwise or counter that claim can then be used as balance to the claim if existing. I don't believe this is an option here however because it is contentious and controversial to leave that claim by itself. Also, the criteria here for sources are mainstream academic historians/experts and biographers for late historic Greek figures and subjects. It is too narrow to state they must be experts on the subject itself or the modern Olympics. Also, impartial sources are not a requirement. Some biased sources can be the best for factual information and Wikipedia guidelines and policy do not exclude based on impartiality of the source. I do think if a source contradicts itself, it may not be getting proper editorial oversight, so that may be a real issue.--Mark Miller (talk) 22:57, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

@Mark Miller: I respect your impartiality, but your statement that the aforementioned sources are from mainstream/reliable publishers is actually incorrect: 1) ABC-CLIO/Greenwood is hit or miss as far as tertiary sources go and definitely miss when compared to the reputable secondary sources already in the entry, 2) the Greek Ministry of Press and Mass Media is a government agency and not an organization qualified in researching and composing a sober history of Zappas and the modern Olympics, 3) the Hellenic Army History Directorate is great for Northern Epirus and even military history, but not for the specific history of the modern Olympics and its founder. So however you interpret Rolandi+'s sources, there is one fact that remains indisputable: Zappas being of Vlach and/or Aromanian origin has no echo in mainstream/specialist scholarship and reputable publications, because the long-established consensus among serious scholars, based on actual history, is that Zappas was a Greek. So to be truly fair, none of these publishers are reliable when compared to the reputable and impartial mainstream publishing houses already in the entry such as University of Nebraska Press, University of Utah Press, Manchester University Press, Presses Université Laval, etc. (on the totem pole of reliable sources, the ones in the article are top-notch whereas the ones submitted by Rolandi+ sadly contain misleading/incorrect information). Ultimately, the stringent criteria I mentioned earlier are necessary so as to avoid inserting inaccurate statements in the entry and to avoid frustrating back-and-forth arguments in the future regarding Zappas's origins. Umpire Empire (talk) 14:54, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Mark Miller's assessment above. The dispute seems to be over whether or not Zappas is of Aromanian heritage, not whether he is of Vlach heritage which seems to be supported by the sources provided. If Umpire Empire and Rolandi+ are happy to compromise by putting that Evangelos & Konstantinos Zappas are of Vlach (not specifically of Aromanian) heritage, then reference with the sources (take that aspect to WP:RS/N if it is still not accepted that they are reliable, though I'm sure volunteers here would be happy to help if desired) and everybody gets to walk away with their goals: Umpire succeeds in not having the information of Aromanian heritage put up, and Rolandi gets to put in their alternative information of "not Greek" with proper referencing. Is this agreeable? Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 03:42, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

@Drcrazy102: I don't mind compromising, but not at the expense of the article's factual accuracy. If Zappas is described as X in a reputable and impartial source containing historically accurate facts, then I'll be the first to insert X into the entry. Umpire Empire (talk) 14:54, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

The only issue I see is that the sourced addition of Vlach background still does not appear to exclude being Greek. That is what requires exceptional sourcing. So, presenting this as "Either Greek" or "Or not Greek" may be even more at the heart of this dispute, but I could be wrong.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:51, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

@Mark Miller: You're not wrong Mark in the sense that there's more to this dispute than meets the eye. If you consult the entry's talkpage, you'll sadly see efforts made by questionable users to rewrite history and make Zappas into an ethnic Albanian (see , ). And now, history must be rewritten again because the flavor of the month is to make Zappas an ethnic Aromanian (whatever that means). The only way for this ludicrous cycle to stop is to enforce strict, or stricter, quality controls (as per WP:RS, WP:V, WP:FRINGE, WP:DUE) when it comes to inserting sources and any information into Balkan-related entries. Umpire Empire (talk) 14:54, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

@Umpire Empire, Mark Miller, JustBerry, and Rolandi+: Thinking over this further, perhaps a better wording of the contested section would be:

Current: Evangelis Zappas was born of Greek ancestry in 1800 in the village of Labovo, near Tepelenë, (modern Gjirokastër County, Albania), when the region was still under Ottoman rule.

Proposed change: Evangelis Zappas was born in 1800 in the village of Labovo, near Tepelenë, (modern Gjirokastër County, Albania), when the region was still under Ottoman rule.[Sources already there] It is widely accepted that Zappas has Grecian ancestry, though a small minority consider him to have Vlach heritage [See Sources below].

Let me know your thoughts on this. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 00:37, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

@Drcrazy102: I appreciate your effort, but I disagree with the proposed change since the wording implies that: 1) a small group of mainstream/specialist scholars having studied Zappas and the modern Olympics determined with certainty that Zappas himself was a Vlach/Aromanian and that is simply not the case in reality, 2) there is biographical/historical evidence to support Zappas being of Vlach/Aromanian origin, which is false since all facts and evidence point to Zappas being a Greek. So the insertion of the proposed change would mislead readers and present an historically inaccurate description of the life and career of Zappas. Umpire Empire (talk) 14:00, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

•  To DRN volunteers: _{See below.} and
•  Note to participants: It appears that Rolandi+ also altered the origin of Konstantinos Zappas, a cousin of Evangelos in the same manner. I believe it is in the best interest of the dispute to add that article to this DRN moving forward, as the two subjects are closely related both in genealogy and in modern Greek history.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:42, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
• @Mark Miller: Vlachs are not Greeks.In fact a Vlach can not be a greek as Vlachs don't have the same language and the same culture with Greeks.If you see the Vlachs article they don't have any relation to Greeks,Albanians or other Balkan people.Someone who is Vlach is Vlach and can't be called or identified as "Greek".

I agree that using the term "Vlach" instead of "Aromanian" would be perfect.(In fact the Vlachs of Greece and Albania are called and identified as "Aromanians").So the best option would be:"Zappas was of Greek or Vlach origin".Rolandi+ (talk) 12:51, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Is that what the sources claim or are we stitching together two facts to create a new fact...that he was "either-or"? Also, we still need to actually demonstrate that calling the subject Vlach is main stream enough in academia and modern history to be stated as fact, to mention at all or to ad as opinion. The ethnicity of Evangelos Zappas as anything other than Greek has not been demonstrated. There is an editor that has objected to the addition of the content and their argument is consistent to the definitions and content of the articles we have on Wikipedia and the overall definition of the added terms. At the moment, the main concern is that the content may not be factual and could be outside the mainstream. Just exactly how, has also not yet been demonstrated but it is my opinion that calling the subject and his cousin Vlach and Aromanian may not be something that can be demonstrated in sources as fact. A quick Google book search shows no mention of Vlach in the main sources I viewed off hand and the only one source: "About Greece" mentions Vlach from a search adding the term. There may be more somewhere but It is clear this is not mainstream at least. This leads me to believe the claim that this is fringe could well be accurate. Thoughts?--Mark Miller (talk) 20:02, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

This leads me to believe the claim that this is fringe could well be accurate. Mark, your impartial conclusion based on the facts is correct and I hope other reasonable users come to the same conclusion. Umpire Empire (talk) 21:28, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

•  Note to participants: and  To DRN volunteers:

I have requested RSN input about the sources, and directed them to post their findings in the below section to help resolve the contention and concerns surrounding the sources' reliability. Please do not edit unless acting in a RSN volunteer role. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk)

Summary of dispute by

Programmatic Media discussion

• Volunteer note - There has been considerable discussion at the talk page. The filing party has not listed the other editors of the article and has not notified them of this filing. It is the responsibility of the filing party to identify and notify the other editors. Waiting for filing party to list and notify other editors. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:17, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Human3015

I think dispute has been resolved on talk page. --Human3015^TALK  15:46, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Faizan

Just saw another mountain being made out of a molehill. I too agree to the Revised proposal made at the article's talk. Noting that the article's current version resembles closely to the revised proposal. Faizan (talk) 15:24, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Kautilya3

I am not yet sure there is a dispute to be resolved. FreeatlastChitchat made a suggestion at 03:18 and opened a DRN at 05:14 before the participants have even looked at his suggestion. I think we should take the 3 days given by NeilN for talk discussion and come back here if we can't reach a consensus by then. - Kautilya3 (talk) 10:54, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by D4iNa4

• Basically 3 editors have agreed with the proposal of @Kautilya3:, me, code16 and Kautilya3 himself. I just asked Kautilya3 to copyedit the line or suggest something similar. There is no need of DRN. D4iNa4 (talk) 11:04, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Code16

4 editors have agreed with the revised proposal at the time of this writing (with no dispute recorded yet on it.) I think the issue's resolved, no need for DRN at this point I think. cӨde1+6 ^LogicBomb! 13:12, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

I think five users are Agree including Kautilya3 . HIAS (talk) 14:19, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Siachen conflict/Archive 1#Disputed.3F.3F discussion

•  Volunteer note: Welcome to DRN. There appears to have been a healthy amount of discussion and I take it as, ready for DRN. I'm neither accepting nor declining the case at this time. I'm waiting for the dispute summaries of the remaining participants. Anyone willing to join this discussion, please feel free to add your names and make your summaries. And, please comment on the content and not on the contributor. Good luck and regards—☮JAaron95 ^Talk 06:34, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
•  Volunteer note: As I can see in the article's talk page, all the participants except Faizan have agreed to the proposal of Kautilya3. Since there is a consensus, I'll be closing this thread (general close) in 48 hours, if objections are unheard. Regards—☮JAaron95 ^Talk 08:13, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
•  Volunteer note: Have closed the discussion per lack of objection to JAaron95's proposed closing of discussion. See closing comment for more details. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 23:19, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by

Programmatic media 2 discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by KateWishing

Summary of dispute by Alexbrn

• Note this was discussed at WT:MED#Face lift dentistry, and the editors who contributed there should be added here if this proceeds. However I see no need for DRN as consensus seems clear-cut. Alexbrn (talk) 15:36, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Face lift dentistry discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by MarkDennehy

The country I live in is called Ireland. The country to our north is called Northern Ireland. While we understand what you mean when you say "Republic of Ireland", that is just not the name of our country, as was pointed out quite some time ago on the talk page over a different issue. Wikipedia agrees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland#Name

This edit changed the UK/US spelling of licence (about which not many people care, and I don't much care either because we don't have firearms licences anyway, we have firearms certificates) but the edit also changed the name of the state the page refers to (and this wasn't pointed out in the edit summary).

When this was pointed out in a neutral one-line objection, the editor wrote several paragraphs on topics such as "On a personal note, I wonder if you ever considered how deeply arrogant and offensive it is to some that the state itself chooses to use the name of the island to describe itself?" and "The name of the state is Ireland or, where necessary to differentiate, the Republic of Ireland. That isn't verbatim from the Republic of Ireland legislation, but it's certainly the intent and spirit." (not only is that not verbatim from Irish law, it appears nowhere in Irish law. The name of the state is Ireland, it's a very simple and straightforward line in the constitution, well understood by everyone).

The name of the country I live in is indeed something I'm stuck in the mud about. Because it's its name. It's in our constitution. It's what we're taught in school. It's what's used on a daily basis. It's what everyone understands. And it's what we expect reference works to use. MarkDennehy (talk) 08:09, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Gun politics in Ireland discussion

This DRN for the same article as above is also a waste of time and effort because the naming issue is clear in the Irish Manual of Style (see WP:IRE-IRL). Besides which, any Ireland naming disputes are covered by the WikiProject Ireland Collaboration, where even 1RR per day may get you blocked (yeah I reverted twice but was just reinstating the status quo), and it requires such Ireland naming disputes to be brought there per {{IECOLL-talk}} and, for clarity, I've tagged the article with this template. ww2censor (talk) 09:22, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Ww2censor

This DRN is a waste of time and effort for everyone because it revolves around a simple content dispute that should be, and is being, dealt with at the talk page where I have provided alternate sources to support the British English spelling as opposed to the US English spelling the anonIP prefers. I simply reverted to the status quo and the anonIP had, at that time, not taken the discussion to the talk page. We even have a specifc template for such issues {{uw-lang}}. It is now being discussed there where the US-centric spelling is still being promoted. It has nothing to do with citizenship simply language preference. If it counts for anything perhaps the non-registered anonIP editor with just 90 edits in 2+ months is unaware of content dispute procedure, or just too hot headed to handle this in the normal way, as opposed to my 9+ years and 85,000+ edits which counts, not as being better than him/her, but as some experience in wiki procedure. ww2censor (talk) 09:20, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Gun politics_in_Ireland discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Isambard Kingdom

ESS is not Gaia. ESS considers the many systems of the Earth (in the broadest sense of the word "Earth"), incorporating ideas that are central to dynamical systems. Many of the ideas of ESS have origin in what we also call geography and ecology. This is clear from the several authoritative books cited in the lead, some of which do mention Gaia, but others of which don't. Gaia is an interesting (but specific) hypothesis about life and its development in the setting of the Earth system. In this sense, Gaia is a small subset of ESS, and, as such, it should be mentioned and briefly discussed in the ESS article. But the lengthy material that Terradactyl wants to be included does not result in a balanced article (it results in one that is biased towards Gaia). And some of the material that Terradactyl wants to be included is, by his/her own admission, motivated by a history of pervious edits by Toby Tyrrell, example: , and I would assert that that history is not relevant to the article we need to have now. Terradactyl's writing style is verbose, his/her entries on the talk page are verbose, and he/she often uses unhelpful accusing language, such as saying that other editors are "vandalizing" the article, example: . Isambard Kingdom (talk) 14:02, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by prokaryotes

The involved editors really tried hard to explain to OP why repeated efforts to keep certain versions in the article are not gonna happen. The dispute is currently evolving around this content addition. What OP fails to understand is that the article ESS is not the place to discuss the history of the relationship of ESS and GT(Gaia theory). All editors agree that there is a connection, and therefore GT has a place at the ESS article. However not with the weight and specific detail on just the relationship and certain opinions. OP also often adds his own unneeded synopsis, i.e. The Amsterdam Declaration on Global Change (2001), signed by more than 1,000 scientists under the aegis of the United Nations and thus representing the highest level of scientific consensus, is a significant document for Earth system science, as well as Gaia theory. OP should provide reworked article changes on the article talk page, instead of pushing disputed content.prokaryotes (talk) 07:05, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Plumbago

In summary, the dispute is between Terradactyl and everyone else. Terradactyl is insistent in casting the subject of the article as synonymous with the Gaia hypothesis, which greatly oversimplifies reality. Terradactyl, to be fair, finds sources for this, but is cherry-picking the literature and favouring certain authorities rather than considering the full range of the subject (e.g. what scientists are publishing papers on). All of this has been explained many times to Terradactyl on the talk page, but the advice is consistently ignored. The only sign that Terradactyl is acknowledging any other opinions is that they have reined in their wilder accusations of ignorance / bad faith / COI from the talk page ... and from the article page. This is all unfortunate because Terradactyl is an enthusiastic and prolific (at least on the talk page) editor. However, I fear that this is a topic close to their heart, and they do not appear willing to concede any ground on it. For full disclosure, I am a (clearly biased) Earth system scientist (marine biogeochemistry), someone who retains a suspicion that there may be something in this Gaia-thing, and a colleague of Toby Tyrrell (who Terradactyl seems to think knows nothing about Gaia despite convincing a major scientific publisher to publish a book on the subject). --PLUMBAGO 06:48, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Arthur Rubin

I don't have much to add to Plumbago's comment, except to note that the (approximately 7500 characters) addition of the Gaia material was not significantly different in the multiple versions, and the changes did not reflect apparent consensus in the discussion. Perhaps a volunteer's recognition of consensus could be helpful. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 09:12, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Earth system_science discussion

•  Volunteer note: There appears to have been extensive discussion on the talk page of the article and I think this dispute is ready for DRN. I'm neither accepting or declining this case at this time, but just mentioning that it is the duty of the filer to notify all the involved parties about this DRN case. You may use {{subst:drn-notice}} for this purpose. And it appears that PLUMBAGO is a non-existing username. Please correct the name. Regards—☮JAaron95 ^Talk 04:05, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Thank you - I have now notified the editors at their talk pages. The URL for Plumbago's talk page is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Plumbago

The capitalization I used, if that made any difference, was taken from his signing of his comments at the Earth system science talk page Terradactyl (talk) 04:53, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by McGeddon

Personal Life and Campaigning Talk Section discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Andy Dingley

Summary of dispute by Fabulas fictas servi narrant

Talk:Duke of_Manchester discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by EricEnfermero

User:108.27.63.106 was pointed to both MOS:INFOBOX (the part about highlighting the most important information) and to Template:Infobox baseball biography (the birth_date field instructions that specify using the date). Discussion was started on both the editor's user talk page (by me) and the article talk page (by User:108.27.63.106). My two comments on the editor's talk page did not result in a response, and the editor's comment on the article talk page produced several replies - all in disagreement with this editor's version. Instead of carrying the discussion further, the editor restored his preferred version. Not only was there not talk page consensus for that change, but no one has even agreed with him yet. EricEnfermero (Talk) 05:18, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Muboshgu

The IP is edit warring, has violated 3RR and could be blocked for it, and is elevating the issue unnecessarily while flying solo against a clear consensus. – Muboshgu (talk) 05:57, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

As an added note, the IP made the same edit to Jacob deGrom for some reason. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:46, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Spanneraol

IP keeps adding content that violates the manual of style despite being reverted by three different established content editors. Has violated the 3RR and continues to add the content. Suggest page protection and a block for the IP until he/she learns how to edit properly. Spanneraol (talk) 05:03, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

talk:Clayton Kershaw discussion

What's wrong with stating which day of the week the subject's birthdate falls on? Anonymous 06:46, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps the date format can be ajusted to include the day of the week. Anonymous 06:48, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

The day of the week an individual was born on is not relevant and should not be included. The IP editor's enthusiasm for adding information to Wikipedia is welcome, but I suggest very strongly that he or she channel it into a much more productive direction if he and she wishes to continue editing. Newyorkbrad (talk) 06:52, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. This just made me realize that I don't know what day of the week I was born on. I could look it up in two second, but I just don't care. It's not in MOS to include day of the week for anything, and I often trim it from prose when I see it added to a date. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:45, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

• Volunteer note - Please keep discussion to a minimum in a case that has not been opened by a volunteer. I am neither accepting nor declining this case, but am recommending that it be declined. There has only been one statement on the talk page by each editor, so that this case appears to be premature. I would also advise the filing party to read the edit-warring policy and the wheel-warring policy before claiming that other editors have been wheel-warring. There has been no wheel-warring, which refers to contentious use of administrative tools by administrators (and it does not appear that any of the editors are administrators). I am recommending that this case be declined as premature. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:50, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by null

Summary of dispute by

Rajput The Royal July 19, 2012 ·

Sub Caste Of Rajputs

Bais

Banafar

Bhadoria

Bhati

Bihola

Bisen

Birwar

Bondili

Chauhan

Champavat

Chandel

Chavda

Chudasama

Dadwal

Dodia

Gaur

Gohil

Jadeja

Jetwa

Kushwaha

Padhiyar

Parihar

Parmar

Panwar

Pundhir

Pratihar

Raghuvanshi

Rana

Rathore

Shekahawat

Sisodia

Solanki

Vaghela — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pankaj.kushwaha1983 (talk • contribs) 02:08, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Sitush talk discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Sanskari

Wikipedia:Articles for_deletion/Ranveer_Brar discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by SchroCat

Lazy IP who can't be bothered to read the article. It's cited there if he'd bothered to read it, but he's only read the lede. To make it blindingly obvious, the IP should visit this page and do a basic text search of the word "blitz". If he'd have bothered to read the article, rather than ignore BRD and edit war, he'd have saved everyone a lot of trouble. Time for everyone to move on and do something more useful, methinks. – SchroCat (talk) 22:32, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

No, lazy dishonest SchroCat, who kept yammering on that this reference was in Shenton, which is simply not true. This is the first time he's bothered to reference this page during this entire dispute. It's hardly a scholarly treatment of the subject, but it is an online reference, so I yield. Too bad he's wasted my and everyone else's time by failing to provide a citation when requested. BTW, it is also a lie that I edit warred, since I reverted only once, which is half as many times as ShroCat. Again, editors like SchroCat are why wikipedia has trouble getting and keeping good editors--who wants to have to put up with this kind of superior, passive-aggressive behavior every time one edits an article. 199.108.124.254 (talk) 22:44, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Shenton says the same thing too, but you were too.lazy to find it, read the article, or look at any of the references. On top of that you've been insulting, rude and tiresome. Thank goodness you don't edit Wiki often – you are the sort of sub-standard and abrasive individual who isn't needed. – SchroCat (talk) 22:52, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Yet again you fail to provide a specific reference. Why is that? Because it's not there. (You do realize that Shenton is searchable, don't you? She says "most significant"--you do realize that's not at all the same thing as "biggest" or "largest", don't you?) You are the one who has been rude, condescending, and most damningly, dishonest. wikipedia lost a good editor when it lost me. Too bad there are so many more of your ilk . . . Oh, and your ilk is also the kind that can't stand not to have the last word . . . Just a prediction. 199.108.124.254 (talk) 23:04, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Shenton has written more than just the book, but don't worry about that, just so long as you try and prove yourself right. Either way, you're fighting a lost battle: the question is settled and all you are doing is trolling now. Time for you go go and bother someone else. – SchroCat (talk) 23:10, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

As I said: your ilk are unable not to have the last word. And you STILL haven't provided a citation to Shenton, in any book. Why is that? I'm not being a troll, I'm pointing out your dishonesty. Of course, to someone like you I'm sure that seems like trolling. Your grasp of the language has already been shown to be . . . questionable. Remember, folks, he is incapable of not responding to this--you heard it here first. 199.108.124.254 (talk) 23:18, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Burning of_Parliament discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Courtier1978

First of all it is fair to say that my editing is done on an NPOV base. That is adding the victories of both sides in an NPOV manner. The same applies to the rest of my articles. Anyone can see this from my history. I have also added in the past, what the people of the island have in common, as well as leaving versions of other articles edited after me, from one of the two totally pro-Turkish editors here, as they were edited by him. This also can be seen from my history.

On the contrary the other two users are keep deleting ALL the victories of the Greek side for a whole year now and edit warring the article since then. They are pushing POV and are engaging in edit warring, since continuously deleting ALL the victories of the one side for a whole year now, it is edit warring and POV. Anyone adding them, is keep being reported on false charges, by them. This also can be seen from the history of the article. Any attempts from anyone to add any victory to the articles mentioned for the other side, was deleted by them.

Anyone adding anything in relation with it, were pushed by them, in edit warring, got reported by them, and got blocked for it, so now the articles are mainly edited by pro-Turkish editors. The pro-Turkish editors were cooperating in doing so. The same applies to what the articles are saying. The pro-Turkish editors don't let them to be even close to NPOV, so now are full of POV, as I will explain in the following, after explaining the article.

Not only the POV pushing by the pro-Turksih editors is, as it is clearly seen, in those cases, the biggest possible, but at the same time they were and are reporting and cooperating in edit warring against anyone adding any type of NPOV in the articles. That it goes for more than a year now, making the articles full of POV, and excluding any NPOV versions of the story, by anyone. The above can be seen by both the articles and the history of the articles themselves.

Even with my version that didn't even add the first invasion, which was as it seems a Greek Cypriot victory, for the reasons stated in the above, I am called a Greek Nationalist by them, and I am accused by them with all type of false charges, with the lightest to be as not discussing, while the talk page, is full of my discussions, and the one that was accusing me as not discussing had not even had a single comment in the talk page, when he was making his accusation. In addition he accused me with all type of false accusations as it shows from my history, in the administrators, that in reality they are portraying himself, as it shows from his history, while he was keep deleting my edits in cooperation with the other pro-Turkish user, reporting me and complaining about me in the administrators, with all type of false charges, as he did previously with anyone else, adding any NPOV version of the story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Courtier1978 (talk • contribs) 18:18, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by GGT

Firstly, thank you, Mikrobølgeovn, for reporting this and trying to resolve the recurrent problem in the article: I had been too much tired by the persistence of the situation and just given up. There really is no question of editor bias in this case. Courtier has removed reliable academic sources repeatedly (especially the Oxford University Press one in this edition) and repeatedly tried to assert his/her original research characterizing this edition. When asked to provide evidence, he/she resorted to personal attacks e.g. "I am also wondering who are you trying to fool here with your tactics", disruptively reported me for edit warring to AN/3RR, and when reverted by other users, resorted to threat and implication of sock/meat puppetry: "Team work is not permitted under Wikipedia rules. One more time and you will get reported for this" "You may want to tell this to the account that has reverted the article, for you" when reverted by Alakzi and recently "Team work is not permitted under Wikipedia rules" when reverted by Mikrobølgeovn. He/She later provided an unreliable source and further manipulated it (the webpage talks about a Greek Cypriot victory in the clashes of 1967) to claim that it meant a Greek Cypriot victory for 1958-63 and 1967. He/She insisted on the idea of a Turkish Cypriot withdrawal from the government despite this being explicitly contradicted by the aforementioned Oxford UP book. He/she further refused any attempts to find a middle ground as may be seen in the page history. His/her confrontational and unconstructive attitude is best characterized by the following quotes: "Victory is a victory as the result shows victory" and "Deleting the victories of the one site, is POV. You have being doing this for months now. Don't you think it is time to stop.? What is your affiliation with the island anyway and If none, what on earth are you doing here pushing POV with such mania?" He/she also repeatedly resorted to baseless POV claims when material in the article was clearly supported by neutral sources and was in a neutral tone. Thus, the question is, essentially, one of violation of core content policies (OR and verifiability) and unconstructive attitude, not bias. Thank you and apologies for taking everyone's time. --GGT (talk) 18:37, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:List of_wars_involving_Cyprus discussion

• Volunteer note - While there has been limited recent discussion on the article talk page, it has hardly been extensive. I would suggest that discussion be continued on the talk page for at least one more day and one more round of comments. I am neither accepting nor declining this case, but it may be declined as premature. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:46, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

It's really not premature. This issue has existed for a long time, only with different users brawling. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 20:54, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Red Jay

No dispute. Just somebody trying to make a point. Complains about new users being treated badly, but it looks like he is not a true new user. Red Jay (talk) 16:50, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Cyclonebiskit

To clarify the "threat", it was a stern warning that continued actions of adding incorrect information would lead to a ban. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 15:08, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:2015 Atlantic hurricane season discussion

As the main editor for the naming articles - i will state that there can be no dispute here, as the next name to be used in the North Atlantic Ocean is Henri - unless off course all off these sources are suddenly wrong.Jason Rees (talk) 15:35, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

the next name actually starts with a K as the last Atlantic storm was Joaquin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.47.71.142 (talk • contribs) 15:42, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Previous edit was not by 'Clay' Red Jay (talk) 16:53, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Fixed the fake name and replaced it with the proper IP handle. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 16:57, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Macrakis

Summary of dispute by JohnInDC

Summary of dispute by Jbh

Talk:Programmatic media discussion

Volunteer's Note: Welcome to the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. I'm neither taking this case nor opening it for discussion at this time, but just reminding the filing editor that it is his obligation to notify the other participants of this filing by leaving a note on their user talk pages. The template mentioned at the top of this page can be used for that purpose or a custom-written note. If those notices are not given in the next two or three days — and placing a notice on the article talk page will not suffice — this listing will be closed as abandoned. Once that has been done, there has been a suggestion at the article talk page that consensus has already been reached on this issue. That will need to be explored before proceeding here since if there is a clear consensus there is no dispute to be mediated here (since things are decided by consensus here at Wikipedia and if there is a clear consensus, then there's nothing left to be decided). Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 21:26, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.