Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 132

Summary of dispute by Dennis Bratland

Summary of dispute by GraniteSand

Talk:Kshama Sawant#Self_published_sources_and_Sawant.27s_positions discussion

•  Volunteer note: - At time of writing;
• Ricky81682 has notified all parties, however;

1. Dennis Bratland has declined to participate at DRN.
2. GraniteSand has has declined to participate at DRN.

• Since DRN is a voluntary moderation forum, and parties cannot be dragged into moderated discussion at DRN, this case will be closed due to: lack of participation.

If the dispute continues and the editors' positions change and would like to use DRN, a refiling is allowed and welcomed.

Cheers, Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 06:33, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Неполканов

Summary of dispute by Toddy1

Summary of dispute by Warshy

Summary of dispute by Dbachmann

Summary of dispute by Wbm1058

I was drawn into this when I spotted technical issues. My first related edit was to the unrelated article about Bungarus venomous snakes, where I removed a hatnote because Karait did not redirect there anymore; but it seems that I stepped into topic areas where one needs to tread carefully, to avoid getting bitten by a Bungarus. I understand that there is no one correct way to spell "Karait"; that varies depending on what foreign language the word has been translated or transliterated from. I understand that peoples characterized as being "Karaits" may come from different geographic regions, far separated from each other, and I understand that some "Karaits" identify as members of the Jewish faith, or some variant of that, while others do not consider themselves to be Jewish. I've seen that Wikipedia has multiple articles covering various geographic, ethnic and religious variants of "Karaits", and that editors, some based in Israel and some based in Russia, cannot agree on how to disambiguate these topics. As an American who identifies as neither Russian nor Jewish, I have limited knowledge, and sorry, limited interest in, these topic areas. I believe that YuHuw is a good-faith new editor, and have no basis whatsoever on which to even remotely suspect them of "socking". Wbm1058 (talk) 14:10, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by 31.154.167.98

Talk:Karait discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by KH-1

User talk:KH-1 discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Nomoskedasticity

• With apologies -- I decline to participate. This issue was the subject of an RfC that was closed three months ago. I do not think the interest of a single editor newly active on the page is justification for an extensive DR initiative. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 19:59, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by SegataSanshiro1

The premise of the argument is unfounded. Vulture fund was discussed very heavily at W2W here and the consensus was to follow the sources and go with the commonly used term, that being Vulture fund. Editing a BLP, one has to be careful not to attribute the term to Singer specifically in Wikipedia's voice, but do make sure sources are represented and there are many, many sources which indicate that he has been referred to as a vulture directly and others purely describing his business as a vulture fund. While the need to avoid smearing is necessary, but we're not here to avoid hurting people's feelings. Leaving this out would be akin to whitewashing and it's seriously damaging to Wikipedia's credibility if this page is going to read like a nice PR piece for Singer (as it has in the past). The very simple solution would be to use the term, but use it wisely. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 20:12, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by NickCT

I agree with User:Jonathan A Jones, User:SegataSanshiro1 and User:Nomoskedasticity. This conversation has had a lot of input from a lot of people. This looks like a somewhat extraordinary fourth bite at the DR apple by User:FoCuSandLeArN. NickCT (talk) 00:50, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Jonathan A Jones

I agree with Nomoskedasticity and SegataSanshiro1: this topic has gone round an apparently endless cycle of discussions, RFCs, noticeboards, and so on, raising forum shopping to a veritable artform. There's no real dispute here, just an editor not prepared to accept a clear and utterly uncontroversial consensus, which is that in this article we should adopt standard Wikipedia practice and follow what the sources say about the subject. The term "vulture fund" in not intrinsically pejorative, though some sources use it in a pejorative fashion, but even if it were agreed to be so then there would be nothing wrong in noting that "vulture fund" is one of the descriptions widely applied to Singer's activities as long as such descriptions were properly sourced and due weight was applied. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 22:56, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by ‎Comatmebro

I've stated from the beginning that I find the term to be non-neutral pejorative as well as offensive. I think if the argument is being made that the term should be used "sparingly", than the argument should be made that the term shouldn't be used at all. Comatmebro User talk:Comatmebro 01:20, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Meatsgains

Consensus on this issue was claimed to have been met on RfCs and noticeboards however, prior discussions prove that the same involved editors disagree on whether the term should be added to Singer's BLP. I maintain that the term "vulture" is a derogatory pejorative not suitable for Wikipedia, especially a BLP. Comparing somebody or their business practices to a bird that feeds on the death of a sick or injured animal or person violates WP:NPOV. The opposition (those who favor adding the term) argue that there is only one editor who is unwilling to accept use of the term but there are several who disagree with adding it. Clearly we have not reached a definitive consensus since this issue is being addressed yet again. I would like to see feedback from other users (not the same ones pinged here) and for an admin to take a look at this dispute. Meatsgains (talk) 03:30, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Paul Singer_(businessman)#Copy_edit discussion

Volunteer's note: Two important points to FoCuSandLeArN:

• DRN will not accept cases where there has been no extensive and recent discussion on a talk page, preferably but not necessarily the article talk page (but not through edit summaries). The most recent discussion I can find at the article talk page is approaching two months old and I cannot find any more recent discussion which involves much the same editors elsewhere. Unless you can point us to some more recent discussion, this request will be closed 24 hours from now.
• It is the filing party's obligation, as noted at the top of the page, to notify the other listed parties with a note on their user talk pages of the filing of this case. The template {{DRN-notice|Paul Singer}} — ~~~~ can be used for that purpose, or you can leave a custom note with a link here. A notice only on the article talk page will not suffice. However, having said that, if this is going to be closed due to lack of recent discussion there's no point in bothering to give those notices.

Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 22:12, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

 To DRN volunteers: TransporterMan I did some quick digging through the archives of the BLP/N and the NPOV/N (both very dusty and dark BTW) and found this NPOV/N thread with the last dated comment being from ... New Year's Day (UTC)! So it has had almost three weeks to cool off. I haven't read the actual content in each page's discussion yet which may influence any decisions since it has apparently "done the rounds" of WP:DR forums. Cheers, Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 03:48, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Good catch, Dr. C. FoCuSandLeArN, I think that probably solves the issue raised in my first bullet point, above (if barely), but you still need to notify the other editors and this listing will be closed as abandoned if you don't do it in the next 2-3 days. Also bear in mind that the other editors must choose to participate here since the purpose of DRN is to help editors to try to come to consensus. If they do not choose to do so — they are not required to do so — then this will be closed as futile. One of the things that a large passage of time between the end of discussion and filing here does is to make participants reluctant to restart something they thought was already finished. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 19:11, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the above points. I posted this last night and have been away from a computer since. I'll rectify the notifications issue shortly. I am also aware of the participation caveat. I appreciate your help. Regards, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 19:46, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

 To DRN volunteers: I would like to formally recuse myself from moderation of this case due to being both involved in the WP:W2W RfC discussion - concerning the use of "Vulture Fund" and associations - with several of the above users and having other interactions with several of the above users in other areas that would likely bias me. I am still happy to help with providing unthought-of ideas and solutions but will stay at arm's length from the dispute. Cheers, Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 02:53, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Volunteer's note: I'm not taking this case, but I do have a question to ask FoCuSandLeArN, ‎Comatmebro, and Meatsgains: There clearly has been a consensus in the past to use the term in this article. Consensus can, of course, change, but for it to change it must be changed. That means that there must be a new consensus discussion, either in the form of just a plain discussion or in the form of a RFC or both, which comes to the new consensus. (Or a long-unreverted edit in contradiction of the prior consensus, but that's not the case here.) If no new consensus is formed — that is, the new discussion ends in either a consensus to retain the existing consensus or in "no consensus" — the existing consensus remains in place. It is, also of course, permissible to start new discussions or continue prior discussions in an effort to change consensus. (That right does not mean, however, that the opponents must participate or continue to participate in those attempts) However, to form a new consensus one must either bring new supporters into the discussion (which presumes that the reasons to support both options are very close in weight so that the number of supporters becomes relevant), convince some of the opponents to change or compromise their position, or most often to advance new arguments or new circumstances which were not considered or not adequately considered in the prior consensus discussions to show that the prior consensus was inappropriate. With that introduction, I'm concerned that there's not really a dispute here for us to moderate. DRN does not take cases where there is already consensus on a dispute. In this case, that means that there must be at least some demonstration, of the type noted above, that the existing consensus should change. What has been offered in the discussions since the last consensus was formed on this matter which should cause that consensus to change? Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 21:59, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Comment: I find your predisposition quite unsettling, especially after the points you established above. First of all, I am a new uninvolved editor (as Nomoskedasticity aptly mentioned) who's entered the discussion - a "new supporter" as you put it. I did not participate in the aforementioned RfC, which by the way was deemed "weak". There have been other editors in previous discussions (such as Capitalismojo) which were not summoned, so I hold there is ample space for discussion. This has been an ongoing dispute for months (as far as I've gathered), and the new circumstances you mentioned are presently clear. Now, I can propose a new RfC in due course, or we can try to reach a favourable outcome for the encyclopaedia together through this thread. I have tried to raise this issue in several instances, during which no new editors have come forth; how do you suggest we bring new users into the discussion without being accused of forum shopping? What you're effectively implying is that DRN is only viable for stale RfCs. If that's the case, then we should all be very worried about how the encyclopaedia processes discussion. Regards, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 16:40, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

You say, "the new circumstances you mentioned are presently clear." Do you mean something other than you being a new participant? If so, what are those new circumstances? Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 17:13, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Regarding new circumstances: The W2W RfC regarding the use of the term "vulture fund" occurred after the RfC in question, so if anything circumstances have strengthened the consensus established. Furthermore, the RfC in question did not involve many of the editors summoned here, though many were involved in this one (over a year ago) which also established consensus on the use of the term. The circumstances are the same as usual: this has done the rounds multiple times, has seen countless editors get involved and establish consensus repeatedly on the term's usage (we could even do an overall tally across the board if required). Presently, the only "dispute" which is occurring is between editors who choose to respect sources and consensus and those who do not - there is no grey area here, Wikipedia's guidelines are pretty clear and I agree with many of the editors here that there is simply nothing to discuss. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 20:38, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

The W2W you are referring to was over a page name, not including the term "vulture" on a BLP. Also, please point me in the right direction where you are seeing "countless editors" getting involved in this dispute. It has been the same six editors going back and forth with no forward movement. Meatsgains (talk) 23:42, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

I believe I made myself clear with the above post, TransporterMan. The exact conditions you listed were met, and yet here we stand back at square one. What do you suggest be done? This dispute is not going away by sheer ignorance. "There are no uninteresting things, only uninterested people." Cheers, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 23:30, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

• Volunteer note - If it isn't clear to User:TransporterMan what has changed since consensus was reached, then, User:FoCuSandLeArN, then the failing is yours for not explaining, not his for not understanding. I don't see what has changed other than you being a new participant either. Refusal to answer a simple question from the coordinator is not a good way to get this case started. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:47, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

• "there must be a new consensus discussion" - there were 3 in the past month; none were even near conclusive.
• "It is, also of course, permissible to start new discussions or continue prior discussions in an effort to change consensus. (That right does not mean, however, that the opponents must participate or continue to participate in those attempts) However, to form a new consensus one must either bring new supporters into the discussion (which presumes that the reasons to support both options are very close in weight so that the number of supporters becomes relevant)" - last consensus was deemed "weak", hence this is precisely where the number of participants takes special weight.
• "convince some of the opponents to change or compromise their position, or most often to advance new arguments or new circumstances which were not considered or not adequately considered in the prior consensus discussions to show that the prior consensus was inappropriate" - this is precisely what is being attempted here.

Now can we please move forward? If, as TransporterMan implied above, DRN is merely a venue for stalled RfCs, I'd be very happy to organise one promptly. Thank you, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 23:55, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

FoCuSandLeArN, can you answer the simple question of "What new circumstances have come to light since the prior RfCs?" This does not include a single uninvolved editor (yourself) entering into the long-running dispute that has achieved some consensus. Give us a simple answer, not a round-the-merry-go-round-we-go response quoting the DRN Co-ordinator's concerns about accepting this case for moderation, which are quite valid considering the DRN "Charter" and the sheer response-size this dispute has garnered. I would also invite @Nomoskedasticity, SegataSanshiro1, NickCT, Jonathan A Jones, Comatmebro, and Meatsgains: to present, to TransporterMan (DRN Co-ordinator) and/or Robert McClenon (highly respected DRN Moderator), what is new to the debate, if anything, since the three previous RfCs were completed regarding 'Vulture Funds' and their managers, in the context of the Paul Singer (businessman) article? Please remember to be civil and not comment on user conduct, keep the focus on the article content and respond concisely. -- Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 00:57, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

To make things more simple for the volunteers, I have taken the time to create some tables and a timeline with the number of times the editors here have been involved in these discussions. There's been a lot of claims that not many editors have been involved, that it's always the same editors or that consensus was weak. Let's just let the facts speak for themselves. I apologise for the length of this, but perhaps it will save more time in the long-run. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 02:26, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Before I provide "what is new to the debate", one thing to note is that two of the users below supporting use of the term have been blocked indefinitely (Joe Bodacious & Two kinds of pork). Also, the W2W should be omitted because this discussion is in regards to Singer's BLP. Meatsgains (talk) 02:44, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

You also failed to mention that other users such as Capitalismojo responded to the RfC's threaded discussion opposing use of the term stating: "Your continuing personal attacks are inappropriate. Please cease. Multiple editors disagree with your approach. I have carefully read the refs. The most reliable don't refer to the subject as a vulture. They refer to his funds as "vulture funds" and to him as the inventor of "vulture funds"."

I have not "fudged" any figures or "framed" anything. Before I respond to your comments, may I remind you that the volunteers here have said specifically to refrain from personal attacks - advice which you have unfortunately ignored.

As for leaving out editors from talk page discussions, I did. I also left out editors who were in favour of usage of the term such as HughD (who I will refrain from pinging as I have with the others since there has been sufficient canvassing in these discussions already) since they were not part of establishing consensus through RfCs. As for the two blocked editors, that's a simple oversight on my behalf and is to be expected when you're going through multiple discussions attempting to tally-up the involvement of 30+ editors. Even not counting those two, the numbers still speak for themselves. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 04:03, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

No users supporting use of the term in the RfCs you provided below responded to the threaded discussions so I'm not sure what you are referring to. Threaded discussions are absolutely used to establish consensus on RfCs. Meatsgains (talk) 04:30, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Also, leaving out my username in the table for RfC 2 is misleading. Meatsgains (talk) 04:34, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

The number of discussions you (and other editors) were involved in appears next to your name on the table. I have not left out any of the editors in this discussion. Again, I have not mislead anyone - this table is there to count the number of editors not the amount of times they have participated. Please stop throwing around accusations or I will withdraw myself from these discussions along with the other editors. This is really getting on my nerves. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 04:43, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

RfC 1: Should the article Paul Singer (businessman) mention that his company has been called a vulture fund? 16 July 2014 - 21 August 2014

RfC 2: Should use of the term "vulture" be added to a BLP? 30 August 2015 - 12 October 2015

W2W: Using "Vulture fund" as a page name 14 October 2015 - 24 November 2015

Note: this is not part of the Paul Singer discussion, but the volunteers have asked what new things have happened since the last RfC, and this seems relevant. If it should not be taken into consideration, then feel free to ignore it.

Totals

Total number of editors involved: 31

Discussions started by FoCuSandLeArN:

Copy edit (talk page) - 30 November 2015

New involvement: 0

Paul Singer (businessman) (BLP noticeboard) - 4 December 2015

New involvement: 0

Paul Singer (NPOV noticeboard) - 15 December 2015

New involvement: 2 - support for usage of the term from an IP editor, minor point of clarification from a new editor

Talk:Paul Singer_(businessman)#Copy_edit (here) - 23 January 2016

New involvement: 0

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alex Jones_(radio_host)&oldid=prev&diff=702652628 discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Whoop whoop pull up

Template talk:NE regional map discussion

•  Volunteer note: - At time of writing;

1. The filing party has not notified the involved editor.
2. The discussion on the talkpage, while recent, is not sufficient for a DRN case; nor are undoes/reverts considered part of the "discussion count". Unless there is a secondary page being used to discuss this issue (e.g. user talkpage, Project page, etc.), this is considered insufficient discussion.
3. DRN does not "[e]stablish criteria for when a station should be added to the template for a United States railway, and provide a ruling in this case." as we are intended for informal content dispute resolution. If such a criteria were to be made, it would most likely occur at either the relevant WikiProject(/s) - in this case WP:TRAINS, WP:WikiProject Stations, and/or WP:USA - or at WP:Village pump (policy). In both cases this would be achieved through an WP:RfC.

• Per the 2nd and 3rd reasons, I (or another DRN Volunteer) will be closing this case in 24 hours unless a more detailed discussion has occurred at a secondary page.

If the dispute continues, with discussion, then the case may be refiled and reconsidered without prejudice.

Cheers, Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 06:20, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Eperoton

Summary of dispute by Jeppiz

Talk:Muhammad discussion

I would like to be party in dispute as I was one of the editors involved in the original dispute FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 11:16, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

• Volunteer note - There has been extensive discussion on the talk page about Muhammad and Aisha over a period of months. However, there is also an RFC on the talk page that was opened on 3 December and has not been formally closed. This case cannot be accepted while the RFC is open, and can only be accepted after the RFC is open if the result of the RFC is No Consensus, because if the RFC is closed with consensus, we don't change consensus here. It is requested that someone, whether a DRN volunteer or otherwise, close the RFC. (If a DRN volunteer closes the RFC as No Consensus, they should recuse from accepting this case.) It should also be mentioned that Muhammad is subject to discretionary sanctions. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:39, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
• Volunteer note - In view of the length that disputes about Muhammad have been continuing, if content dispute resolution is appropriate, the parties should consider formal mediation. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:42, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

If you are referring to the case I opened and was initially taken by Transporterman, it WAS closed due to pressure from Neil (not sure the designation for "official" or no). Regardless, can you guide us in what would be next steps for the WP:RFM process?

Trinacrialucente (talk) 18:59, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

• Volunteer note - The RFC appears to be No Consensus. However, in view of the sensitivity to some Muslim Wikipedians to what they see as anti-Muslim bias, I would prefer that the RFC be closed by a Muslim editor who did not participate in it. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:36, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
• Volunteer note - User:TransporterMan - Was there previous mediation? If there was previous mediation, then attempting to continue this dispute here seems futile. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:36, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

As stated previously, there was no previous mediation on this topic.

And if you look through the entire dialogue, the problem is not anti-Muslim bias...it is the opposite. So, I hardly think having a Muslim editor close the RFC is objective or contructive, since that "bloc" are the ones creating the stalemate/preventing any edits. Let's drop the "PC" over-sensitivities and function like an academic encyclopedia. Any qualification of the religion of an editor to settle such a dispute is in itself a form of prejudice. I personally don't care what the religion (if any) the participating editor is, so long as the editor has not shown bias to the topic. Trinacrialucente (talk) 22:04, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: I'm not saying that I've not touched this case previously, but if I have I don't remember it (which is entirely possible). The only other prior filing I can find is this one, which was closed for insufficient discussion (but I didn't do it). Incidentally, I'm conflicted out on this case, having had dealings with one or more of the parties in the past, except for routine administrative actions. — TransporterMan (TALK) 03:51, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

That's the same as this case, except that there has not been marginally recent discussion. There is also now a formal Request for Mediation at the MEDCOM about Muhammad and slaves. Does that conflict with this DRN request? Robert McClenon (talk) 04:01, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

No, as I stated in the other filing, these are completely separate topics (the other involves slavery). This one we are discussing here is in fact much older, yet never been resolved.Trinacrialucente (talk) 08:00, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

This case is probably in need of closure in 24 hours for two reasons, either of which would be sufficient. First, neither of the two editors named by the filing party has made a statement agreeing to mediation. Second, there is still an open RFC waiting for closure. (If the RFC is closed as No Consensus and the two editors make statements, this case may be opened.) Robert McClenon (talk) 19:36, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

This case is now also pending at the edit-warring noticeboard. DRN is not meant to handle a dispute that is pending in another forum, whether another content resolution forum, such as RFC, or a conduct resolution forum, such as ANEW (since edit-warring is a conduct issue). Robert McClenon (talk) 23:04, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by User:Thomas.W

Summary of dispute by User:X4n6

Summary of dispute by User:Flyer22 Reborn

No dispute for me. I was involved in a Mariah Carey image dispute. Like I just stated on my talk page: "The current big dispute regarding this [the bigger issue] is at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Images#"Articles about ethnic groups or similarly large human populations should not be illustrated by a gallery of images of group members". A WP:Permalink for it is here." Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:32, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by User:Bishonen

Summary of dispute by User:RexxS

The issue of image galleries in infoboxes has been previously discussed extensively. On 30 November 2015 an RfC was opened at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups under the title "Proposal for the deletion of all the galleries of personalities from the articles about ethnic groups". It was listed at the following RfC sections: Wikipedia policies and guidelines; Society, sports, and culture; Language and linguistics; History and geography; and was advertised at Wikipedia:Centralized discussion. The question was clarified to be "Should montages of notable people be removed from ethnic group article infoboxes?". After 35 days, on 3 January 2016 the RfC was closed by User:Sandstein with the following rationale "I'm closing this following a request at WP:AN. The result of this RfC is that there is consensus to remove portrait galleries from the infoboxes of articles about ethnic groups. The main reasons given for this decision are that, lacking objective criteria, it is original research to determine who should be featured in the gallery, that this selection process generates a lot of unnecessary conflict, and that a few individuals are not an adequate visual representation of a large group of people. This also applies to articles about other than ethnic groups, such as nationalities, because the discussion has shown that the same arguments apply to these groups as well." The close was reviewed at AN/I and closed by User:RegentsPark with the comment "Looks like the consensus is that Sandstein's close is good. Boroska is not edit warring so nothing to do re Hungarians. RFC closed. Time to move on". The RfC attracted about 200 comments and the review at ANI a further dozen. Two respected, independent administrators judged the consensus to be in favour of removing montages of notable people from ethnic group article infoboxes, and moreover found that the strength of the arguments would equally apply to other, similar infoboxes.

The content issue is clear: User:Thomas.W was following community consensus in removing image galleries from African Americans and User: DanJazzy is guilty of disruptive editing in his attempts to override the broad community consensus There is also the conduct issues of wasting everybody's time by filling here. As if that were not enough, I note that he inserted a 6 x 6 gallery, when even the previous guidance limited the number of images to 20 (4 x 5). This is because a gallery of more than 4 images wide make the infobox expand considerably wider than its default, and there really has never been any justification or precedent for doing that. --RexxS (talk) 02:57, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Talk:African Americans discussion

• Volunteer note - The filing party has not notified the other editors of this filing. It is the responsibility of the filing party to notify the other editors. There has been some discussion on the article talk page. Most of the discussion has been at the filing party's talk page. Other editors besides those identified here have discussed at the article talk page and should probably also be notified if this case is accepted. I will leave it up to other editors whether to accept or decline this case because the discussion has mostly been on the filing party's talk page, but would suggest that taking the discussion back to the article talk page for a few days might result in other editors offering useful opinions. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

  Thank you for your intervention. My point was that this issue was extensively discussed on the article talk page. The consensus there supports my edit. However the two aforementioned editors differed;based on a Wikipedia rule which does not exist.DanJazzy (talk) 20:53, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

• Volunteer note - It appears that administrator User:Bishonen says that she did not participate in a discussion about this subject, but something else. This will probably be taken as declining to take part in discussion of this issue (without prejudice to whether she is willing to discuss something else). Robert McClenon (talk) 21:01, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

  @Robert McClenon, TransporterMan, and Bishonen: I have "struck" through Bishonen's name in the list of involved editors per comment in Bishonen's summary, though they may at any time rejoin and "unstrike" their name. I will look through the talkpages, both article and user, and see if any other editors need adding or removing. Cheers, Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 23:09, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

•  Volunteer note: I have added two new users; @X4n6 and Flyer22 Reborn: per previous discussion of same topic in recent time, though not too recent. I will notify them of the dispute and place a notice on the talkpage for general interest editors to view.
• I would also ask DanJazzy and Thomas.W if there are any other current/recent threads of discussion besides;

1. Talk:African_Americans#Unnecessarily_crowding_the_infobox ^{previous discussion on same topic between a different set of users}
2. Talk:African_Americans#Does_WP:_IMAGE_RELEVANCE_apply_here.3F
3. User_talk:DanJazzy#Your_repeated_edit_on_African_Americans
4. User_talk:DanJazzy#January_2016 and
5. User_talk:DanJazzy#Please_explain

Please provide a link to them in a comment below this. Cheers, Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 00:40, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Update - I have notified the two users listed above, and posted a notice on the article talkpage for general-interest editors to be aware of this case. Cheers, Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 00:57, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Summary of dispute by Veggies

• Relevant Background Info 1: Talk:New Year's Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany#"Puerto Rican Day Parade attacks" and this article
• Relevant Background Info 2: Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard#Unsourced comparison of New Year's Eve sexual assaults in Germany incident with Puerto Rican Day Parade attacks incident

I'll copy what I wrote at WP:NORN:

Discussions on the article's talk page have become intractable and outside help is needed.

The New Year's Eve sexual assaults in Germany were a series of mass sex assaults carried out by groups of men in public during a celebratory period (New Years) upon strangers. The attacks involved mass groups of men separating and assaulting women as well as robbery.

The Puerto Rican Day Parade attacks were, likewise, a series of mass sex assaults carried out by groups of men in public during a celebratory period (Puerto Rican Day) upon strangers. The attacks involved mass groups of men separating and assaulting women as well as robbery.

Seeing the similarities between the two (both of which have been extensively cited in their respective articles using verifiable, reliable sources), I decided to place a link in the "See Also" section of the New Year's Eve sexual assaults in Germany article. I did this in accordance with the guidelines at WP:SEEALSO since I figured that readers who'd read the article might be interested in knowing about this very similar incident which had occurred years before in the US. Apparently, User:Dontmakemetypepasswordagain disagrees and has been trying to argue that there must be a verifiable citation in a reliable source which "links" the two before a "See Also" link can be added to an article. Asked where this policy can be found, he linked me to WP:V.

Simple version: Do comparable "See Also" links need "citations" from a verifiable source that links the two before editors can add them as links in "See Also" sections? I do not believe they do.

Summary of dispute by 81.88.116.27

Despite the similarities between the incidents (sexual assault, festivities, groups), putting unsourced analogies into SEEALSO is a clear invitation to OR and POV-pushing. SEEASLO is there mainly to provide information directly/causally relevant to the main subject of the article - not to draw attention to supposed "similarities", especially if such "similarities" have NOT been extensively explored and overwhelmingly accepted as valid in RS's. If we go down this route - we'll end up with dozens of "similar" see also's - many of which will be inserted primarily for POV reasons. When you potentially have a large GROUP of "similar" incidents, the solution is to name the GROUP and make it into a CATEGORY. I believe this will also be a good mid-way solution here. Gucci81.88.116.27 (talk) 13:21, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by UnequivocalAmbivalence

Dispute involves whether or not it is a requirement of See Also links that the link be established by a source. Given that the wording of the policy allows for tangential links, I do not believe this to be the case. Given the considerable similarities between these specific events, I think the link is warranted. I do not feel that it is contentious, and I don't feel that it pushes any sort of non-neutral POV as neither event has a BLP type reputation that could be sullied by its linkage to another similar event. In fact, I'm not even sure what the claims of POV pushing refer to, as far as I can tell the people who say linking these events violates POV have not explained how it does so, or what POV is supposedly being pushed by their linking.UnequivocalAmbivalence (talk) 02:08, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Talk:New Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany#.22Puerto_Rican_Day_Parade_attacks.22_and_this_article discussion

• Volunteer note There has been sufficient discussion at the article talk page. The other editors have been notified. I am neither accepting nor declining the case. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:00, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
• Comment WP:SEEALSO explicitly allows tangentially related links. (Though the rule on external links, WP:LINKNO, is strict in the way Anon81 describes.) A link to Puerto Rican Day Parade attacks is clearly allowed. The issue is the editorial decision of whether such a link would improve the article. The best bet in such cases is to gather more voices. Darkfrog24 (talk) 04:04, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

I discussed this at the talk page without reply, so I will just mention the argument one more time. "Tangential" does not imply unsourced. A tangential connection between two article topics could easily be established by referencing a source. Here the focus of concern is an unsourced contentious claim with inflammatory potential. Dontmakemetypepasswordagain (talk) 16:19, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Rjensen

Talk:American International_Group#Content_dispute discussion

•  Volunteer note:

1. Discussion is not extensive enough to warrant a DRN filing, mainly since there are only three comments discussing the edits and content in question.
2. It is the responsibility of the filing editor, FacultiesIntact, to post a notice on the talkpages of other editors to alert them to the discussion here.

It is my recommendation that this case be closed pending further discussion on the article talkpage between the two (possibly three) users. If a continued dispute arises, the case may be refiled. Cheers, Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 03:10, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.