Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/History of Liverpool F.C. (1985–present)/archive1

History of Liverpool F.C. (1985–present)

Nominator(s): NapHit (talk) 13:44, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

This article is about the recent history of Liverpool F.C. from 1985 to the present day. I believe the article is close to being at featured standard, and deserves the scrutiny of the community. Thanks in advance for your comments. NapHit (talk) 13:44, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Comments - good to see another Liverpool article here, only got as far as the first section

• Lead needs to be trimmed, it’s far too long.
• "Dalglish became manager following the resignation of Fagan after the Heysel Stadium disaster. He started by replacing long-serving full-backs Phil Neal and Alan Kennedy with Steve Nicol and Jim Beglin," needs refs
• The sentence which follows – “Liverpool started the 1985–86 season poorly," uses the same verb as its previous. Change to began?
• "They continued to struggle until the end of the season when they won eleven of their last twelve matches,” not sure this is the right pronoun to use
• "Liverpool needed to beat Chelsea in the last game of the season to win the league championship. A goal from Dalglish secured the championship,” sentence could be merged
• You could wikilink ‘double’ for the readers’ benefit.
• "At the start of the 1986–87 season, it was announced that Rush would leave the club for Italian team Juventus when the season was finished,” this could be more concise. Are you trying to say that Rush announced he would leave before the season was underway? Cut to the chase: "At the start of the 1986–87 season, Rush announced his intention to leave Liverpool for Italian team Juventus in time for the following season…"
• Why did Rush announce his departure a season early? Quotes here would be useful.
• "At the end of the season, Dalglish signed Peter Beardsley and John Barnes to improve their attacking options," needs citation and wikilink player names.
• "The signings had the desired effect as Liverpool only lost two games in the league campaign. They did not suffer defeat until their 29th match against Everton and regained the league championship,” desired effect as they regained the league championship, losing two games is just the by-product.
• "Despite being favourites…,” avoid noun + -ing form, use other words like 'although'
• "Rush returned to Liverpool for the start of the 1988–89 season," citation? Why did he return?
• I'd wiklink the 'up for grabs now' match somewhere. And you could include the fact that the match was originally scheduled to be played a month earlier but had to be replayed due to Liverpool's FA Cup commitments. Lemonade51 (talk) 23:08, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments @Lemonade51:, I think I've addressed them all bar the lead, which I'm going to rewrite in a few days! NapHit (talk) 16:45, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Some more, I'll try and have a proper look in the coming days...

• "They remained unbeaten until a 3–0 loss to Arsenal in December, which was followed by another to Crystal Palace at the end of the month," needs ref
• "Coach Ronnie Moran was installed as caretaker manager, he won three of the ten matches he was in charge of, as they fell further behind Arsenal," likewise, needs citation
• "He bought Dean Saunders for £2.9 million, but the league campaign was unsuccessful for Liverpool, as they finished in sixth position, the first time they had finished outside the top two since 1981," another
• "In the inaugural season of the Premier League, Liverpool performed poorly; they again finished in sixth place, losing fifteen of their forty-two matches," 42?
  • Yep, there were 22 teams in the first season of the Premier League. So, 42 matches were played. NapHit (talk) 12:53, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

• No, no, I mean this could be written numerically! My fault, Lemonade51 (talk) 00:51, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

• Doesn't the MOS state we should write out numbers that are over 10, instead of listing them numerically? NapHit (talk) 20:24, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the further comments @Lemonade51:, they have been addressed. NapHit (talk) 12:53, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

More, got as far as 'fluctuating fortunes':

• "Their last match of the season was against second-placed Arsenal, who were three points behind" maybe change to final, reads better
• "The match had originally been scheduled for 23 April, but due to Liverpool's FA Cup commitments it was postponed and rearranged for 26 May," change to 'game' as match becomes repetitive. "but due to Liverpool's FA Cup commitments" → "but Liverpool's FA Cup commitments meant..."
• "The subsequent Taylor Report," published when? Year would suffice, don't need the actual date or month.
• "Liverpool started the 1989–90 season in good form, which included a 9–0 victory...," how about replacing BIB with 'exemplified by' or 'illustrated by'
• "The club suffered a blip in October," endured?
• "Following the match, Liverpool signed forward Ronny Rosenthal on loan from Standard Liège to boost their attacking options," ref?
• When Souness returned to Liverpool as manager, he notoriously made changes to the boot room which this article doesn't go into. I think it's worth a mention, given Souness is perceived as the one responsible for Liverpool's decline. Perhaps even quotes from journalists/ex-players as to why he failed would help? Then there's the argument that Dalglish left a old squad which badly needed reinvestment. And Liverpool's owners didn't embrace the commerical side of the game, unlike United who ran away with it in the 90s. Generally you have got the season-by-season account done, but context would give it that umph.
• "The start of the 1992–93 season saw the start of the redevelopment of Anfield," reptitive
• "Liverpool continued to struggle during the season, culminating in a defeat to Bristol City in an FA Cup replay," ref?
• "Despite exiting the UEFA Cup and League Cup in the early rounds, the club reached the final of the FA Cup," what does the first bit have to do with the second bit?
• Houllier got rid of the boot room culture, worth adding.
• "Houllier continued the reshaping into the season when he signed forward Emile Heskey for a then club record £11 million in March.[57] With the absence of European competition, Liverpool's performance in the league improved. They finished the season in fourth place...," Liverpool were clear in second in April, so not sure performances 'improved' as they dropped down two places. Improved for a short time, yes, but was no Europe really a factor? I guess the key thing to take out is they missed out on third spot, which would've gained them entry to the Champions League.
• Surprised there's no mention of Houllier's heart attack and subsequent absence during the 2001–02 season?
• Decision to snub Anelka for Diouf worth including?

If I have time over the weekend I'll probably do a copyedit as I can spot a lot of repetitive sentences. Lemonade51 (talk) 00:51, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the further comments @Lemonade51:, I think I've addressed them all. NapHit (talk) 20:24, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Final batch:

• Have marked some sentences with 'cite needed' template, needs filling.
• "Despite a loss in his first match against Manchester United in the FA Cup, Liverpool improved under Dalglish and eventually finished the season in sixth place"
• "Dalglish bought a number of players at the start of the 2011–12 season, including Charlie Adam, Stewart Downing and Jordan Henderson," ref?
• "The season was marred by the Luis Suárez racial abuse incident in October during a match against Manchester United, in which Suárez racially abused Patrice Evra," replace with 'the player'
• "...and was fined £40k and banned for eight games," split this into a sentence. £40k → £40,000
• "Dalglish was sacked at the end of the season and replaced by Brendan Rodgers," what did he do differently than Dalglish, did he make any promises to supporters?
• "In the 2013–14 season, Liverpool challenged for their first league title since 1990.," something bugs me about this, don't they 'challenge' for the title every season? You need to be specific here, something that tells me 'Liverpool thrust themselves into title contention, after a good run of form'.
• "In April 2014, after a run of 11 consecutive victories, they lost 2–0 at home to Chelsea," needs citation. Again, could be worded better....Chelsea's win meant the title race was out of Liverpool's control.
• "The following match they led 3–0 after 78 minutes, but ended in a 3–3 draw to Crystal Palace, as Manchester City won the league" → something like "Having taken a 3–0 lead in their next match – away at Crystal Palace, Liverpool conceded three times in the final 20 (?) minutes to draw 3–3. The result dented their title aspirations; although Liverpool went into the final day with a mathematical chance of winning the league, they were overhauled by Manchester City."
• Wikilink Barcelona Lemonade51 (talk) 16:13, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the further comments @Lemonade51:, I think I've addressed them all. I'm going to have a go at tackling the lead in due course!

• Looks good, will be happy to support once the lead is dealt with. Lemonade51 (talk) 21:24, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I've had a go at trimming the lead @Lemonade51:, let me know if you're happy or more could be taken off. NapHit (talk) 16:56, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Support - I've had a go trimming the lead down even more. It's a bit rough in places, so feel free to make amendments. Happy to support this now, it's as comprehensive as it's going to get without going off a tangent. Lemonade51 (talk) 23:10, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Support Covers everything without going into over-detailing, paragraphs all similar size, so no bias towards recent events. Things I noticed, which could be better but don't harm my vote: in the lead, I got the impression I was reading "improved" a lot. Also a lot of "disappointed". Plus, didn't Liverpool gone from top dog in 1985, to just fight for Europe? In fact, didn't they broke a record for longest without winning the league? That should be somewhere in the article. Beware of repeated links, there a lot of fanatics about that.--Threeohsix (talk) 13:38, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Threeohsix If you mean longest time for any English team, that would be Preston North End from 1890 to present. This is indeed Liverpool's own longest spell without the league, but I don't recall any significant coverage of that fact when the record was broken. '''tAD''' (talk) 10:20, 22 July 2016 (UTC)