Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2026 August 25

File:Hanoi Jane.jpg

File:Hanoi Jane.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Ordrestjean (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log). 

There seems to be some confusion in reliable sources about which photo (or photos) gave Jane Fonda the nickname of Hanoi Jane and was the controversial one among the American public. The Guardian calls the non-free photo the infamous photo, but it then states that there were multiple photos and that There was outrage at the pictures (emphasis added). The Hollywood Reporter uses this public domain image and calls it The 1972 Photo That Turned Jane Fonda Into “Hanoi Jane”. The National Women's History Museum says it was the infamous photograph of Fonda sitting on a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft bomber appearing to aim at American planes, however, that caused this disdain to spread amongst the general public., which matches up with the description of the public domain image. The Telegraph describes the photo as a picture that was taken of her surrounded by Vietnamese soldiers while sitting on an anti-aircraft gun. Washington Times (yellow at WP:RSP) says the photo showed Fonda sitting on a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun targeting U.S. planes, laughing and clapping with enemy soldiers, which matches up with the non-free image.

I did go hunting for this image in contemporary newspapers to prove it was public domain, but I could not find this image at all. I'd argue this image either fails NFCC #8 (not being the correct photo) or NFCC #1 (the public domain image from the same event either also inspired the same controversy or shows how Fonda was perceived by the American public at the time). Based5290 :3 (talk) 00:06, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• Keep the photo. We should be telling the reader that multiple photos taken on the same day have been collectively used by Fonda's detractors, especially the Nixon administration, to paint her as treasonous. Hershberger says in the 2005 book Jane Fonda's War that it was any and all of the photos taken from a particular day in late July 1972 showing Fonda talking with and listening to young Vietnamese people outside of Hanoi. But especially grating to Fonda's detractors is any photo showing her sitting on the anti-aircraft gunner's seat, which is what Fonda is doing in the listed photo. So there's no reason to delete it, or search for a better photo. Note that Fonda would have been targeted as "Hanoi Jane" without any photo evidence at all; Nixon had it out for her. Binksternet (talk) 02:46, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

  We should be telling the reader that multiple photos taken on the same day have been collectively used by Fonda's detractors So just say that in text? We do not necessarily need to have every photo or even two photos of the same event to communicate that point.

  But especially grating to Fonda's detractors is any photo showing her sitting on the anti-aircraft gunner's seat, which is what Fonda is doing in the listed photo. But she's doing exactly that in File:Jane Fonda looking through anti-aircraft gun scope.webp. The point of this nomination is not to say that the public domain image is necessarily better, but rather that these two photos have the same encyclopedic purpose, meaning that the non-free photo fails NFCC #1. Based5290 :3 (talk) 04:07, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

  There are more options than deleting one photo. The photo in question was probably published without copyright notice in the same manner as the one you wish to replace it with. It can be moved to Commons in that case. Or another photo of the same event can be used; the book The Vietnam War The Definitive Illustrated History has a great one on page 275, showing more of the gun and the Vietnamese reporters holding microphones out toward her. The UK tabloid The Daily Mail shows this same photo and another related one. Tineye.com says there are 300 instances of the photo online. I'm making these suggestions because the free photo from Commons is terrible quality and fails to show the context. Binksternet (talk) 06:02, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

File:Magnesium torch Cousteau.png

File:Magnesium torch Cousteau.png (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Anachronist (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log). 

This does not meet NFCC, as the purpose of the image is simply to showcase a device and how it is used. The subject being "the most notable user of such a device" is not relevant, unless the episode/exploration itself were the object of discussion. Free-licensed photos of underwater use of magnesium torches could definitely either exist or be created – in fact, the article already contains a photo depicting overwater use. Rose Abrams (T C L) 11:17, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• Comment. The overwater use is a stretch, not the historically common use, and therefore not really relevant as a lead image. I searched several hours trying to find a free-license photo of underwater use and could not. I uploaded that single frame showing Jacques Cousteau because I could find nothing else; therefore I felt it qualified because I couldn't find an adequate substitute to illustrate scuba diving with a magnesium torch. The only other alternative would be to grab a frame from a black-and-white episode of Sea Hunt where magnesium torches were used at least once, but such an image would have the same issues. I also observed that the word "torch" has an unfortunate second meaning in the UK synonymous with "flashlight", causing searches for "magnesium torch" to be dominated by electric flashlights with magnesium cases. ~Anachronist (who / me) (talk) 14:07, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

  Thank you for your effort trying to find a replacement. If you want to put more effort into illustrating the article, I will leave you a tip: You could reach out to some authors of a good non-free photo and ask them to release under a free license – I often do that to illustrate topics I want to support and it often succeeds. I usually have the best luck with small-scale individual users at Instagram and Flickr. Rose Abrams (T C L) 20:22, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

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