Wikipedia:Peer review/Johann Sebastian Bach/archive3

Infobox

• MOS:CAPSUCCINCT: suggest shortening caption, perhaps to "1748 portrait of Bach holding a copy of the canon BWV 1076"? I don't see how the specifics of the canon are important.
  • MOS:SEAOFBLUE: should be fixed here regardless (canon BWV 1076)

Shorten caption link. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:46, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

• Not sure the brackets around (O.S.) and (N.S.) should be linked

Currently piped. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:48, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

• I would generally expect a country as part of the places of birth and death for precision

Add country not required. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:51, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

Lead

• MOS:FORCELINK: I agree with the points made below about a footnote for O.S. vs. N.S.

O.S. is curretnly blue linked.

• Calling the cello suites and sonatas and partitas "solo instrumental works" implies that the keyboard or organ works are not for a solo instrumental

That list currently covers cello, keyboard, organ, choral, etc., which seems adequate for the lede. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

• • Similarly, distinguishing between keyboard and organ works implies that the organ is not a keyboard instrument

Bach distinguished between clavier, organ and harpsichord, as his preference. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

• How should "Bach Revival" be capitalised? From a quick glance at Scholar, I see a split between lowercase and uppercase for revival

There are number of books and articles on this subject which seem to prefer to use capitals, especially when it is in quote marks. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

• At a glance, the second paragraph seems to rest too heavily on "In [year]... In [year]" constructions

Now 'by 1723'. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

• "In 1703 he returned to Thuringia ... where he was mostly engaged with chamber music": this is very long for a single sentence, I suggest splitting

Split sentence into two sentences. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

• "its university's student ensemble Collegium Musicum" -> "Leipzig University's student ensemble, Collegium Musicum" for clarity

Specify University. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

• "not only in his larger vocal works but, for instance": not seeing the need for "for instance"

Reworded example. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

• "Many of his works use": suggest expanding pipe to "Many of his works use contrapuntal techniques", this makes it sound like we're linking to a full work list

Extend piping field. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

• The start of the last lead paragraph reads disjointed, could these sentences flow better?

Added piping. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

• Expand pipe to multitude of arrangements

Extended. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Early life, marriages and education

• "scores were so valuable and private and blank ledger paper was costly": suggest comma for clarity after private

Add comma. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

• "From his brother": specify which

It was Johann Christoph; mentioned in the sentence before that one, and the sentence after it. It could be added again. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

• Do we have no examples of North German composers Bach was exposed to?

Current version presents South Germans such as Johann Caspar Kerll, Johann Jakob Froberger, and Johann Pachelbel. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

The North German list looks something like: Georg Böhm, Reincken and Friedrich Nicolaus Bruhns from Hamburg, and the work of Dieterich Buxtehude. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:24, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

• "By 3 April 1700, Bach and his school friend Georg Erdmann—who was two years older—studied at St Michael's School in Lüneburg": suggest "began studies" instead?
  • "who was two years older": is this relevant?

Could be abridged; they were near contemporaries. 'Began studies' added. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

• "Anna Magdalena Wilcke": why italics?

Currently regular font. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Career

• Why is Bach Church is quotes in the caption, but not in prose?

Quotes taken out. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:32, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• "The position was offered to Bach only after it had been offered to Georg Philipp Telemann and then Christoph Graupner, both of whom chose to stay where they were—Telemann in Hamburg and Graupner in Darmstadt—after using the Leipzig offer to negotiate better terms of employment.": I think the dash ought to be moved to before "both"

Mdash adjusted. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:32, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• "went all the way to the Elector but was denied": do we know who was Elector at this time?

Elector Frederick Augustus. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:34, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• Link Gottfried Zimmermann more explicitly to the cafe so the reader doesn't have to make the connection themselves

Named by his name earlier in paragraph. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:41, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• Shouldn't "Court Composer" be lowercase?

It is derived from "Royal Court Composer", which is in quotes. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:41, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• "In 1733 Bach composed a Kyrie–Gloria Mass in B minor that he later incorporated into his Mass in B minor...He later extended this work into a full mass by adding a Credo, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei": do we need to talk about this twice? At least, these should be joined.

The two versions were separated by: "He presented the manuscript (the first version) to the Elector in a successful bid to persuade the prince to give him the title of Court Composer." ErnestKrause (talk) 14:44, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• "polyphonic structures and canons and other elements of the stile antico": convert to list

Rewrite sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:51, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• "In January 1749 Bach's daughter Elisabeth Juliane Friederica married his pupil Johann Christoph Altnickol. Bach's health was declining.": needs better flow here

Rewrite both sentences. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:51, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

Music

• "he often returned to the then-antiquated modes and genres...I have expended much effort to find another piece of this type by Bach. But it was in vain.": these sentiments seem to disagree?

The complete Forkel quote is in reference to the uniqueness he associated with the specific piece Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue: "The fantasy contains a great deal of harmonic movement by semitones, and the fugue theme is very chromatic (although not uniquely so for Bach), explaining the piece's nickname Chromatic. The virtuosic and improvisational toccata style of the fantasy, in which both hands alternate rapidly, and the expressive, tonally experimental youthful character, combined with the cogent structure of Bach's more mature period, make the work exceptional, and it has been particularly popular among Bach's keyboard works. This assessment was shared by Bach's contemporaries. The first biographer of Bach, Johann Nikolaus Forkel, wrote: 'I have expended much effort to find another piece of this type by Bach. But it was in vain. This fantasy is unique and has always been second to none.'" ErnestKrause (talk) 15:07, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• "about a century before they were fitted with valves, were tied to the key of their tuning": not entirely true, perhaps mention the use of crooks?

Use 'valves and crooks.' ErnestKrause (talk) 15:09, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• "5th Brandenburg Concerto" -> "fifth Brandenburg Concerto"

Use 'fifth'. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:14, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• "For instance, the sonatas and partitas for solo violin are considered the pinnacle of what has been written for violin, within reach of only accomplished players.": The pinnacle? I doubt there is a complete consensus on that.

Shorten wording. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:17, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• Is a 200-word block quote warranted?

Shorten quote. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:21, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• "In his last years, Bach revised several of his compositions. Often, recasting such previously composed music in an enhanced structure was the most salient change, as in the Mass in B minor.": to me, these read better joined

Shorten wording. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:30, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• Link hermeneutics

Linked. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:35, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• Why is "who copied whom" in quotes?

Reworded as a question. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:35, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

Reception and legacy

• "old master": just say Bach

Change to Bach. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:00, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

• Why the quotes around "patron"?

Delete quote marks. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:00, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

• MOS:SEAOFBLUE: cantor Doles

He was Bach's student. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

• Her name is Sara Levy, link to Sara Levy (née Itzig)

Linked. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:05, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

• Link Breitkopf & Härtel, N. Simrock, Hans Georg Nägeli and Franz Anton Hoffmeister

Linked. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:12, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

• "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott (BWV 80)" don't put BWV no. in italics, it's not part of the title

No italic. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:12, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

• Link for Felix should occur on first mention

Link is for 1829 performance of Passion. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:19, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

• "In 1854, Bach was deemed one of the Three Bs by Peter Cornelius, the others being Beethoven and Berlioz. (Hans von Bülow replaced Berlioz with Brahms.)": parentheses inside sentence, full stop outside brackets.

Full stop moved. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:19, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

• Personally I'd mention the actual sales number for the Gould recording.

Including Bzzana numbers for the 1950s recording. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:32, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

• I'd rework the 21st century section to include more opinions. Currently it doesn't really summarise modern consensus, just quotes a couple music critics.

Article already covers 3 of his biographers from the 21st century and a number of critics; mention one if someone is missing. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:32, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

References

• Case should be standardised to title or sentence

Should all be in title format, no exceptions. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:51, 5 August 2025 (UTC)

• ISBN segmentation should be consistent

Standard ISBN format. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:04, 5 August 2025 (UTC)

• Inconsistent linking of website, work, etc.
• Ref 30 should use p. not pp.

Current ref 30 is singular. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:06, 5 August 2025 (UTC)

• Ref 34 should use pp.

Current use is pp15-16. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:07, 5 August 2025 (UTC)

• RISM identifiers should be either all included or not
• Inconsistent use of website archiving
• Refs 114 and 116 should use dashes for range, not hyphens
• Could ref 129 have an OCLC?
• Things that would be italicised in prose (work titles) should be italicised in references
• Inconsistent use of access date
• Ref 150 is missing pages
• Inconsistent use of publisher parameter
• Ref 180 should be pp.

Current numbering appears to have shifted due to a large number of upgrade edits in the last month. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:45, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

• Books should all have ISBNs if possible, OCLCs if not

They were all updated to ISBN 13 format at one point in time. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:45, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

• The versions of Geiringer, Karl (1966) and Chiapusso, Jan (1968) cited are too early for those ISBN, make clear what editions are used

Those are the updated ISBN-13 numbers; the orignial ISBN-10 numbers were different. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:42, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

• Boyd, Malcolm, ed. (1999) and Herz, Gerhard (1985) are unused

Unused cited removed. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:28, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

Lead

• (31 March [O.S. 21 March] 1685 – 28 July 1750) Similar-period FAs like George II of Great Britain have a lengthy footnote explaining OS vs NS dates. Could that be useful in this article?

OS and NS are already linked with lengthy explanations. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

• Four of his twenty children, Wilhelm Friedemann, Carl Philipp Emanuel, Johann Christoph Friedrich, and Johann Christian, became composers. After "children", change the comma to a semicolon.

That semicolon would seem to break the sentence flow of "children...were composers". ErnestKrause (talk) 13:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

• Many of his works use contrapuntal techniques In the lead, I would advise using a less technical term such as "counterpoint-based".

That paragraph already uses and links 'counterpoint' at the start of that paragraph. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

• In the 18th century Bach was primarily known as an organist, while his keyboard music, such as The Well-Tempered Clavier, has been appreciated in more than 150 recordings made of it up to 2013. Change "while" to "but", maybe improve flow by saying something like, "but his keyboard music has seen greater appreciation in the modern era, such as The Well-Tempered Clavier, widely regarded as one of the most important classical works in history."

"...150 recording" is supported in the main body of the article by citation; needs RS for "most important" if that's a preference. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

• through periodicals (and later also websites) Maybe just a style issue, but the parentheses would be better expressed using commas.

Current wording already uses comma offsets in that sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Early life and education

• Bach's mother died in 1694, and his father died eight months later. Do we know the month of his mother's death, or at least the season? Clears up the confusion of not knowing whether the father died in 1694 or 1695.

Father died in February the following year. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:57, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

• Any idea when he graduated from St Michael's?

Attendance was 1700-1702. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:57, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Career

• In January 1703 shortly after graduating from St Michael's and being turned down for the post of organist at Sangerhausen A comma or two is probably needed here.

Two commas added. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:15, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• Despite strong family connections and a musically enthusiastic employer What were the family connections?

The relations referred to are with his employer; text shortened. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:23, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• As part of his application, he had a cantata performed at Easter, 24 April 1707, link Easter?

Linked. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:25, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• In 1708 Bach wrote Gott ist mein König, a festive cantata for the inauguration of the new council, which was published at the council's expense.[19] This was the only Bach cantata published in his lifetime. This is uncited text, which is not allowed in a GA. Find a source or remove the content.

Added second cite, Isoyama. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:34, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• Johann Sebastian and Maria Barbara had three more children—twins born in 1713 and a single birth; none survived past their first birthday. Any clue when the single birth was?

Johann and Maria Barbara had seven children, three of whom died in infancy:

• Catharina Dorothea (28 December 1708 – 14 January 1774).
• Wilhelm Friedemann (22 November 1710 – 1 July 1784).
• Johann Christoph (23 February 1713 – 23 February 1713).
• Maria Sophia (23 February 1713 – 15 March 1713), twin of Johann Christoph.
• Carl Philipp Emanuel (8 March 1714 – 14 December 1788).
• Johann Gottfried Bernhard (11 May 1715 – 27 May 1739).
• Leopold Augustus (15 November 1718 – 29 September 1719). ErnestKrause (talk) 00:39, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• On 7 July 1720, while Bach was away in Carlsbad with Leopold, his wife, Maria Barbara Bach, suddenly died. We already linked his wife, so no need to link it again. Also remove the Bach at the end of her name.

Updated. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• The next year, he met Anna Magdalena Wilcke, a young, gifted soprano 16 years his junior, who performed at the court in Köthen; they married on 3 December 1721. No need to italicise Anna Magdalena's name, also link soprano. Change "who performed" to "while she was performing".

Linked. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• who both, especially Johann Christian, became well-known musicians; Johanna Carolina (1737–1781); and Regina Susanna (1742–1809). After the well-known musicians phrase, maybe add "as well as" to improve sentence flow.

Currently in list format for six names. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• He had to direct the St Thomas School Something more formal than "had to" would be nice.

Update wording. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• Link Weissenfels?

Add link. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• Telemann in Hamburg and Graupner in Darmstadt Link Hamburg and Darmstadt.

Added links. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:09, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• Bach's predecessor as cantor, Johann Kuhnau, had also been music director for the St Paul's Church, the church of Leipzig University. But when Bach was installed as cantor in 1723, he was put in charge only of music for festal (church holiday) services at St Paul's Church; his petition to also provide music for regular Sunday services there (for a corresponding salary increase) went all the way to the Elector but was denied. This is a long aside and needs some serious copy-editing. Maybe trim?

Shorten sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• a secular performance ensemble Telemann started. There's a missing "had" in there.

Had started. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:12, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• The concerts, all free of charge, ended with Gottfried Zimmermann's death in 1741. Explain he's the owner.

Already presented as owner in the earlier sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:12, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• He presented the manuscript to the Elector in a successful bid to persuade the prince to give him the title of Court Composer. We don't need to capitalise court composer here.

It is derived from "Royal Court Composer", which is in quotes and upper case. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:19, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• Bach obliged, playing a three-part fugue on one of Frederick's fortepianos Explain it's the ancestor of the piano or something similar.

Its an early prototype. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:19, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• Are we italicising Thomaskantor or not? One style should be consistent throughout the article.

No italic. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:19, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

Music

• that Bach wrote for his eldest son when he was nine years old. Rephrase to "for his nine-year-old eldest son" to avoid the momentary confusion of who's nine years old.

Nine years old. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:23, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• After a performance of his St Matthew Passion, someone said it all sounded much like opera. "Someone said" is more weaselish than encyclopedic. Maybe "His St Matthew Passion was described as sounding like opera" or something similar.

Your version now. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:23, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

Reception and legacy

This has several unsourced statements and text that isn't really GA quality.

• He was remembered more as a virtuoso organ player and a teacher. The bulk of the music printed during his lifetime, at least the remembered parts, was for organ or harpsichord. Thus his reputation as a composer was initially mostly limited to his keyboard music, which was relatively limited in its value to music education. All uncited.

Currently cited to Emans, Reinmar; Hiemke, Sven (2015). ErnestKrause (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• These are on Segovia's 1969 all-Bach album on Saga Records. Uncited.

Currently cited by year and Saga release number: Andres Segovia Plays Bach. Saga Records. 1969. STFID 2160. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• The entire second paragraph of the "20th century" section is either uncited or badly cited (to a self-published source). The information can all probably be verified, so let's try.

Added citation Chritoff Wolff. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:32, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

Also, I find it rather odd that details of his personal life (e.g. relationships, children, appearance, personality) are scattered throughout the article or, in some cases, not mentioned at all. Maybe add a section in with some of that. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 20:24, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Should all be in section for "Early life, marriages, and education". ErnestKrause (talk) 23:32, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

Hi Chicdat; From your edits earlier in the summer, its mostly added into the article now; does it look better? ErnestKrause (talk) 14:47, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

Sure does. I like how you structured the marriages and children section, and the reception and legacy section is far more streamlined and well-sourced. Article overall looks much better now. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 15:50, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

Middle period ...

• Arriving at St Mark Passion, I notice that we missed St John (1724) and St Matthew (1727). See the mentioned background.

Added note of their composition before the Mark Passion. It looks like Aza24 is planning to discuss them in a separate section. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:14, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

• We don't need all this detail about St Mark in the bio- Picander should be mentioned for St. Matthew or even when the collaboration began in 1725.

Some details of the Matthew Passion added. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:14, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

• We should mention sooner that the Bach's Missa of 1733 was composed for the court in Dresden that had become Catholic.

Dresden added into text. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:25, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

• "successful bid" - debatable, he received the "title" after some waiting (as the last sentence in the section has), but may have hoped to get the "position", - I wouldn't call the title an "appointment", - more like a decoration

The accolade appears to have helped him. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

• the extension to the full Mass belongs in Final years, - about the last thing he did - where it is, no need to repeat that here

Shorten text. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

• instead, we'd need the Christmas Oratorio (!734/35), possibly also the two others.

Added. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:43, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

I read sucessfully to his death. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:00, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

Music

• I'd leave only the list as Main, but move the cantata etc. articles to the sections dealing with them.

Moved 'see also' links to continuo section. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:56, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

• I see too many audio files for my taste and think we should limit them to a few crucial samples, and otherwise move them to the compositions' articles. It would be tough for someone new to the topic to tell what's worth listening to.

There are currently six of them; how many to remove? ErnestKrause (talk) 23:56, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

• I question the usefulness of the sidebar. All these lists are in the navbox, at a predictable place.

Navbox is easy to find; which sidebar is being question in which section. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:02, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

• I recommend to link compositions once more, to help readers who only read Music. This is done in several composers' FAs.

Various compositional categories currently are linked several times; which one do you have in mind to link again. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:02, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Italian

• This whole section is very detailed, and I wonder if the bio needs that. It's fine in a dedicated article, but here - at the beginning about Bach's music - the readers are confronted with detail about compositions they may not even know to exist, and then called only by BWV number which may mean nothing to them.

It is appearing to be the case that the Italian school of influence was larger upon Bach than the French school influence. The table size was shortened during GAN and possibly you could suggest further trims. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:16, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

• We should perhaps strive to have the names of compositions as in their articles, for example not Wer weiß, wie nahe mir mein Ende? (BWV 27), but Wer weiß, wie nahe mir mein Ende? BWV 27.

Parenthesis removed. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:20, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

French

• This section seems too short and general to be useful.

Expanded to include mention of Lully's use of various dance forms which Bach adopted in many of his own works. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:13, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Creative range

• Why another link to the list of compositions on top?

Remove link. Its already linked earlier in the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:56, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

• The image is a great one of his thinking but too small to show his handwriting. Perhaps better a different crop? The caption should perhaps be expanded in the prose, and shortened as a caption?

The image is enlarged when clicked; though its still not accessible to most English language readers. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:54, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

• The studies from an early age would better fit "influences" (above, with Italian and French as subsections.

Moved higher in table of contents as indicated. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:51, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

• "He had taught Luther's Small Catechism as the Thomaskantor in Leipzig, and some of his pieces represent it." Why focus on one small piece by Luther? ... and then make it sound as if composition of sacred works began in Leipzig?

Change wording to show that it was one aspect of his Lutheran faith. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:47, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

• "Bach published or carefully compiled in manuscript many collections of pieces that explored the range of artistic and technical possibilities inherent in almost every genre of his time except opera." - The majority of his works were the cantatas, by number and complexity, and we have exactly one that was published and is extant, and exactly one more that was published but lost. Perhaps a litle more detail of what was published and what was not might be in order at this point, - the lead seems to be precise than this.

Added Emans cite for Compositions of his own printed during his lifetime. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:20, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

Continuo ...

• "organ, viola da gamba, or harpsichord", - better: "viola da gamba or cello, and harpsichord or organ"

Added. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:20, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

Structure ...

• "His collaboration with Picander for the St Matthew Passion libretto is best known, but there was a similar process in achieving a multi-layered structure for his St John Passion libretto a few years earlier.[" - really? ... I don't know of a librettist with whom he'd have worked for the St John.

It is attributed and cited here: Don O. Franklin. "The Libretto of Bach's John Passion and the Doctrine of Reconciliation: An Historical Perspective", pp. 179–203 Archived 31 January 2016 at the Wayback Machine in Proceedings of the Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences Vol. 143 edited by A. A. Clement, 1995. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:42, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

Fugue ...

• I doubt that we have to repeat all the details from the Fugue article.

Its fairly short; what could be condensed. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:49, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

• I am sure that we don't need life data for linked people (ever).

I've taken out the life years for the other biographies; I'm not sure where to abridge the short fugue section since it uses mostly basic vocabulary. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:49, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

Copies ...

• I think this should have a hint at him intentionally writing the same music for two purposes, prominently in the Christmas Oratorio.

That Bach used some of his previous secular material in some of his later religious compositions is fairly settled ground? ErnestKrause (talk) 23:49, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

Need a break. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:51, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

Hi Gerda Arendt; It would be nice to see the rest of the your peer review comments here for the rest of the sections. I've just added the prose edits for the UpTheOctave comments above which might be nice to review. Also, Aza24 may be starting on a new version of the "Music" section as currently mentioned on the Bach Talk page in case you might have a comment there. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:29, 5 August 2025 (UTC)

I may have time again on Friday. It would be nice to see responses ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:12, 6 August 2025 (UTC)

More tomorrow I think. Will look forward to your other section reviews and comments. Aza24 has started an early form of a new proposed Music section if you might take a look here: User:Aza24/Bach music. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:27, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

Since yesterday, Tim Riley has added some interesting comments about Bach which you might comment upon here: .ErnestKrause (talk) 14:38, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

I'll end reading first, then (probably tomorrow) your responses, then the others.

Reception ...

• I'd mention 1850 as beginning of the Bach Gesellschaft Ausgabe (BGA), and 1950 as beginning of the Neue Bach-Ausgabe.

  1850 mentioned in the 19th century section below. I've also made a short addition to that section of the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:35, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

• How about lilypond for the Bach motiv?

  If you know how to do this and it looks ok, then maybe you could add it into the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:35, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

18th century

• Several cantata articles mention that his widow inherited parts and sold them to Leipzig, - should that be mentioned? How about that his chorale cantatas were in use by his successors?

  This is a fairly sad story. Bach had originally carefully indexed and wrapped in bindings his church compositions on a yearly basis. However, the poor condition of his estate in very low cash value, caused the inheritors, mostly his children, to sell off the manuscripts for paper stock, for use in cheese shops and the like for wrapping purposes. This narrative is already largely covered in the history of Mendelsohn's recovery of the Passion manuscript, though in this case the annual cycles are considered to be completely lost to posterity at this point in time. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:35, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

19th century

• BWV 1 has much more about the BGA, which could be linked, pointing at the choice of this work for the beginning.

  BWV 1 redirects to Wikipedia's Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern, BWV 1, which gives a short account about why this cantata was selected as number 1; I'll try to add something into this section about it. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:15, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

21st century

• I think John Eliot Gardiner should not only be mentioned as a biographer but also as the conductor of the Bach Cantatas Pilgrimage beginning that century, a musical and logistic miracle, which adds weight to his biographical work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:03, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

  The Bach Pilgrimage CD collection was released c2000 with over 50 Cds in it; possibly worth adding in. However, the Wikipedia artilce for John Eliot Gardiner has a "Controversies" section which you might look it; it describes an unpleasant slapping incident from 2-3 years ago which went poorly for his reputation. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:02, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

See also

• Can we link the portraits somewhere else? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:03, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

  They are mostly from after Bach's death and could be moved to the Legacy section if that's better? ErnestKrause (talk) 01:02, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

Hi Gerda Arendt; It looks like the above comments have been all looked at and updated in the article. Does it look better? ErnestKrause (talk) 14:22, 22 August 2025 (UTC)