Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 14

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was Speedy retarget/restore target. The editor who introduced the discontinuity between the redirects earlier today has now been blocked as WP:NOTHERE. Sideswipe9th (talk) 00:28, 15 September 2022 (UTC) (non-admin closure) Sideswipe9th (talk) 00:28, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

• Gender criticalGender critical → TERF  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Gender-criticalGender-critical → Feminist views on transgender topics#Gender critical feminism/trans-exclusionary radical feminism  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

Currently Gender critical and Gender-critical point to different pages; the former points to TERF while the latter points to Feminist views on transgender topics#Gender critical feminism/trans-exclusionary radical feminism. I don't really see why the hyphen is enough to get these to point to different pages, so I'm bringing this up for discussion here. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 23:34, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

I will note that these both originally pointed to Feminist views on transgender topics; edits by a new editor such as this and this have boldly retargeted Gender critical to TERF. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 23:43, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Comment Not going to lie, this is going to be a tricky one. There are many who believe that gender critical is an attempt at sanitisation or whitewashing of the term TERF, in the same way that race realist was an attempt to whitewash racism. There are also those who believe that TERF refers to a smaller subset of people who are typically espousing anti-trans sentiments, those who are specifically also radical feminists. At this time, my only preference is that both redirects should target the same article, though I do have a slight preference for one over the other. Sideswipe9th (talk) 23:58, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  given that the person who boldly retargeted gender critical has now been blocked for being a VOA, might it be wise to close this and reset everything? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 00:01, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

  Having opened this it would probably be better to do it as a speedy retarget rather than a revert, even though the outcome is the same. I don't object to you doing that but someone else implementing it would be slightly preferable. Thryduulf (talk) 00:07, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

• (edit conflict × 2) Retarget to Feminist views on transgender topics#Gender critical feminism/trans-exclusionary radical feminism as that has the greater coverage of the term and TERF says Those called TERFs often reject the label, and instead describe their beliefs as gender critical, which would result a circular link if targetted there which is not helpful for anyone, especially when the content intending to be linked to does exist. The space/hyphen difference seems to roughly correlate with usage of the term as a noun or adjective, but the meaning is the same in either case so they should definitely lead to the same target. Thryduulf (talk) 00:02, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was Wrong venue - this belongs at Wikipedia:Requested moves, but before you make any other edits it is important that you read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. Thryduulf (talk) 00:10, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

• Adobe Express → Adobe Creative Cloud Express  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Adobe wants to delete the "Adobe Express" redirect because the company wants to rename "Adobe Creative Cloud Express" as "Adobe Express". The company changed the name of its product. But Adobe cannot make that rename because the "Adobe Express" redirect already exists. Once the redirect is deleted Adobe will rename "Adobe Creative Cloud Express" P Coie Updates (talk) 23:03, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:47, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• John Lassetire → List of Cars characters#Jeff Gorvette  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Extremely minor, non-notable character no longer listed at target page due to FANCRUFT concerns. There's going to be a lot of these being submitted. Delete. TNstingray (talk) 23:02, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Delete, I don't actually recall ever seeing "John Lassetire" on the page while I was going through it. It also makes no sense for it to redirect to Jeff Gorvette regardless. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 01:09, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
  • It was removed by @Doniago: here . Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:28, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

    Ah that would be why I don't remember seeing it. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 13:15, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:47, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• List of Cars character → List of Cars characters  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Completely unnecessary redirect clogging up search results. Delete. TNstingray (talk) 22:58, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Delete No need for an incorrect singular redirect here. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:38, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
• Delete this error. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:29, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was speedy delete. Salvio 22:11, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Soviet Union (2022) → Nostalgia for the Soviet Union  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

I have created redirection according to Sergei Shoigu but it turned out to be fake news. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-russia-defense-minister-sergei-shoigu-say-ussr-will-return-1728731 Eurohunter (talk) 20:21, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Speedy delete per WP:CSD#G7, as OP is creator and only contributor.

Felix QW (talk) 20:49, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• I've now tagged this for speedy deletion per G7. CycloneYoris ^talk! 22:09, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:48, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• Zach Weissmueller → Reason (magazine)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not mentioned at the target, delete unless a justification or duly sourced mention can be provided. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 17:15, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Delete per my reasoning at the AFD for the article. PICKLEDICAE🥒 17:16, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Delete: Just because he writes at Reason, doesn't mean that his redirect needs to exist. Unless people are mentioned in the article, there's little reason to redirect someone to a place where they work. TartarTorte 17:51, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:48, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• Kimchi Temper → Han (cultural)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not mentioned at the target, no results on google scholar. There's a blog post floating around () that claims that Kimchi temper is a colloquial name for this concept, but social media posts discussing said article mostly ridicule the moniker as absurd, and I don't see any RS backing it up. Deletion seems appropriate unless stronger evidence of use can be provided. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 17:08, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Delete. Enwiki has nothing about "Kimchi Temper". Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:32, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:48, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• Nationalist Korea → South Korea  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Google Scholar search results suggest that this is more likely to describe Korean unification than the ROK, delete unless a justification can be provided. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 16:56, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Delete: While one could argue that Syngman Rhee's politics were nationalist, thereby making ROK nationalist at the end of the Korean War, this doesn't really seem to be a term used to describe ROK. It seems to be taking that Nationalist China refers to ROC, and therefore trying to apply the same name to ROK, but it doesn't seem to be in widespread usage. TartarTorte 17:45, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 14:21, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• Syvarris → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Omnicrons (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Samurai (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Romans (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Dragons (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Knights of Weston (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• MacDirk Highlanders (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Cowboys (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Kyrie (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Monks (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Greeks (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Ninjas (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Gladiators (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Soulborgs (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Humans (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Tarn Vikings (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Giants (Heroscape) → Heroscape  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Yesterday, I submitted several redirects to the Heroscape page that are not discussed in the article and not important to the "lore". Today, these are a little less obvious, but most (if not all) stem from one over-zealous user back in the day, and they do not contribute any encyclopedic value. Once again, I am using Twinkle and will condense everything under one heading. My vote for all is Delete. TNstingray (talk) 12:37, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Comment. For further context, the premise of the game involves these Generals summoning random characters from throughout time and space to fight. As such, the only important lore involves the Generals themselves and that backstory. No one will be searching for the backstory of the individual characters, because it basically doesn't exist beyond a couple of sentence summaries in some of the oldest sets. In other words, fans aren't using these redirects, and ordinary users have no reason to use them. Their very existence can be summarized as misleading, undue weight, and original research (e.g. there are not unified factions in the game like "Romans". The very premise of these titles contradicts the game.). Also included among these redirects is a former page for a specific character (Syvarris), who again has no notability in the grand scheme of things and can be deleted alongside the rest. TNstingray (talk) 12:52, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Comment Syvarris was redirected to Elves (Heroscape) by AfD consensus, that title was later redirected to Einar's Faction (Heroscape), which in turn was deleted at AfD. There is thus no issue with deleting the former article content at RfD (if that is the consensus here). Thryduulf (talk) 15:00, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
  • That's interesting because Einar is not even the correct army for Syvarris or any of the Elves for that matter. If the Elves page has already been deleted per community consensus, then all of the pages listed here and in the chunk I listed yesterday qualify for deletion per the same reasoning. TNstingray (talk) 22:54, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 11:18, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• Harold Lee Hsiao-wo → zh:利孝和  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete, unless there is an appropriate local target for this page (which there does not appear to be). Sending readers to non-English content is not helpful. Additionally, the plain {{soft redirect}} template is not used in the mainspace (along the lines of the sentiment expressed at WP:SOFTSP). See here for precedents. — Godsy ^(TALK_CONT) 08:54, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Delete - unhelpful to most readers of English WP, and holds up the possible creation of a page for the subject. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 14:04, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and El cid. There is basically never any good reason to soft redirect to content in a language other than English (indeed the only time I can think of when it might is when a title conflicts with an interwiki prefix to this project, and that definitely isn't relevant here). Thryduulf (talk) 15:05, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Delete: Rationale is pretty much an amalgam of the arguments above. I agree that it's not helpful to have a soft redirect to a wikipedia in another language both per the no and Thryduulf. I think the WP:REDYES argument by El cid is strong and is an argument I support as well. TartarTorte 15:14, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Delete per above. NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 23:25, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was retarget to Driver's license. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris ^talk! 03:23, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• Drivers LicenseDrivers License → Drivers License (song)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

The target has flipped a few times from Driver's License to Drivers license (song). Although the song is a better character match, I think the Driving license will probably server readers better. MB 03:17, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Retarget to Driver's license (not Driver's License, a redirect). I think this is the clear primary topic for this. If kept the hatnotes should be swapped (and indeed the song could be moved as it wouldn't need the disambiguator). A7V2 (talk) 05:27, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Retarget to Driver's license per A7V2 Dronebogus (talk) 05:43, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Retarget to Driver's license per MB and A7V2. The song is relevant for 20-25 year olds but the car license is relevant to a much wider demographic.  Stepho  talk  09:24, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• DAB there is no clear primary topic per WP:DIFFCAPS. The song gets more views (11,353) than the generic topic (9,915)[] so its safest to disambiguate. Drivers license will still go to the generic topic but someone bothering to capitalize probably wants the song so shouldn't be sent to the wrong place. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:18, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Retarget to Driver's license. The consensus was very clear at the RM, see Talk:Drivers License (song). 15:31, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• (Re)target to Driver's license; the song article is not a valid redirect target per WP:QUALIFIER. I would support moving the song article to this page as the primary topic for this spelling/capitalization, given that it is both a punctuation and capitalization difference away from "Driver's license", but as others have noted above, there is strong consensus against that per the requested move discussion last year. Mdewman6 (talk) 21:53, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  I've looked at WP:QUALIFIER and don't see on anything there on where alternative titles are allowed to point. What have I missed? — Smjg (talk) 09:19, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

While not explicitly stated at WP:QUALIFIER, what it means here is that by redirecting Drivers License to the song article, it would mean the song is the primary topic for that term, so the song article should simply be titled Drivers License, without parenthetical disambiguation, which would require moving the article over the redirect. While I 100% agree with you that this is a strong case of WP:SMALLDETAILS and the song is the primary topic for this specific spelling, since clearly a majority of users capitalizing the L are not seeking Driver's license, the RM discussion is 2021 strongly opposed making the song the primary topic. So, we can't work around the consensus that the song is not primary by redirecting the ambiguous term to it. The ambiguous term must either host or target a dab page, or be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. Mdewman6 (talk) 17:48, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

• • Disambiguate per Crouch as a compromise, to save users seeking the song from wading through the 3 hatnotes on the Driver's license page. Mdewman6 (talk) 21:59, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Keep redirect to Drivers License (song) because:
  • It's the only thing that's correctly called "Drivers License". I don't understand why people are claiming that WP:DIFFCAPS/DIFFPUNCT doesn't identify a primary topic. It's even more like the given examples of Iron maiden vs. Iron Maiden and Ice cube vs. Ice Cube than those examples are.
  • How often do people come through Drivers License (exact spelling and capitalisation) to get to Driver's license? I would expect these to be in the minority, given that (a) the document isn't called a "drivers license" anywhere as far as I am aware, and is only even called a "driver's license" in a small part of the world (b) most people wouldn't bother to capitalise the 'l' if they're looking for the document.

I'm not sure why Drivers License (song) didn't have a hatnote for this. I've added one now. — Smjg (talk) 09:19, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Because a hatnote is unnecessary per WP:NOTAMBIG (provided that the base name doesn't improperly redirect there). Mdewman6 (talk) 17:48, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

• Retarget. The current situation must change because Foo should not redirect to Foo (disambiguator). If the song is the primary topic then the song article should be moved to the base name, but this was not the consensus at Talk:Drivers License (song)#Requested move 1 May 2021. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:24, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was retarget to Clostridioides difficile. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris ^talk! 01:21, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• C-diffC-diff → Clostridioides difficile infection  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• C. diffC. diff → Clostridioides difficile infection  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• C. DiffC. Diff → Clostridioides difficile infection  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• C.diffC.diff → Clostridioides difficile infection  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• C diffC diff → Clostridioides difficile infection  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• CdiffCdiff → Clostridioides difficile infection  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• C. difC. dif → Clostridioides difficile infection  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• C difC dif → Clostridioides difficile infection  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

As a follow-up to Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_August_10#C._difficile, all of these versions of the scientific name further abbreviated to some form of "diff" should similarly target the article about the organism Clostridioides difficile rather than the disease caused by it (given that we have separate articles for these related topics), as evidenced by its use in reliable sources, e.g. 1 Mdewman6 (talk) 01:17, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• I hear what you are saying, but when "C-diff" is used by medical staffers, and their patients and their families might want to look up this mysterious term, they are talking about, and the patients have, a Clostridioides difficile infection. Aside from the scientifically correct C. difficile, all these jargon terms should redirect to the infection article. That's why I, and presumably other editors, set up those redirects that way. Abductive (reasoning) 02:03, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Well, I agree we should generally try redirect the most users directly to the content they are seeking, with hatnotes to help the others, but I would note for example that Staph and all forms of E coli target articles about the respective organisms rather than the infections, even if most users are interested in the medical aspects of these bacteria. I think there are good arguments either way, which is why I brought it to Rfd. Mdewman6 (talk) 20:23, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Retarget per nom. The article about the bacteria links to the article about the infection in a hatnote, in the first section and there is the possibility of a link from the lead as well. Thryduulf (talk) 15:15, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Retarget. It is important that these are consistent: it is confusing to have C. difficile redirecting to one article and C. diff etc. to another.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Shhhnotsoloud (talk • contribs) 07:01, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris ^talk! 01:09, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• President of the NetherlandsPresident of the Netherlands → Prime Minister of the Netherlands  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Recreation of a deleted DAB Dronebogus (talk) 01:07, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Keep, this is {{R avoided double redirect}}. This is a redirect from an alternative title for Minister-president of the Netherlands, another name to Prime Minister of the Netherlands. --Privybst (talk) 06:34, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Keep as {{R from incorrect name}}. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:13, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
• Keep per above. Unlike with the recent Guatemala equivalent, I have not found a page with a lead that is more informative about the various roles in this context than the current target. Thryduulf (talk) 09:32, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
• Keep: Per above due to the avoided double redirect. TartarTorte 12:53, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

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The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris ^talk! 00:37, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• Marion MetelitsMarion Metelits → Marion Stokes  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

No evidence this person is referenced under this name, albeit evidence of a son with this surname. Jalen Folf (talk) 00:32, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Keep: I can find a few WP:RS saying that she went by a name at this point. There's an article on her from the Philadelphia Inquirer which states that she was known as "Marion Metelits" at a point.^[1] Also Poynter mentions that she went by the name Marion Metelits as well.^[2]TartarTorte 01:16, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Keep as TartarTorte has verified its use (it seems to be a married name of hers). — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 04:47, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Keep per above statements. If this was her name at one point, there is no harm in keeping this ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 14:05, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

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