Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Apostle12

Desired outcome

• Apostle12 will agree to refrain from offering personal opinion of the subject, and limit discussion to the substance of prospective or recent edits
• Apostle12 will agree to refrain from disparaging personal remarks
• Apostle12 will agree to refrain from canvassing in order to push Apostle12's own views of the topic
• Apostle12 will agree to submit only edits that are based in reliable sources, and not e.g. solely from media reports
• Apostle12 will agree to not re-submit material based on sources that have been found previously to be inapplicable or less than reliable
• Apostle12 will agree to follow the bold, revert, discuss cycle, and refrain from violating the three revert rule, either explicitly or in spirit

Description

Since the beginning of November 2012, Apostle12's edits to White privilege have displayed a number of hallmarks of disruptive editing. For a period of roughly a week, Apostle12 made a concerted effort to introduce mitigating language into the lede paragraph of the article. Notifications were made on Apostle12's talk page, and a request to WP:DRN was submitted, stemming from a dispute about the meaning of weasel words and the proper context for "alleged". At that time, more substantial revisions were submitted to the lede.

For the next few weeks, Apostle12 engaged in substantial periods of soapboxing on the talk page, drawing other editors into arguments while seeming to push a personal POV: at first, that white privilege does not exist, and at some point thereafter, that there are scholarly works that dispute its existence. On a number of occasions, I and other editors offered help with integrating such criticism into the body of the article, but Apostle12 was not forthcoming with evidence of a legitimate scholarly dispute (which there may be).

At one point, Apostle12 made a substantial contribution, in the form of a criticism section. However, the sources used were not up to WP standards, and another user, Marie Paradox suggested that these same sources had been the subject of edits in the past, and the previous consensus was that they were unreliable.

This prompted a back-and-forth on Apostle12's and Marie Paradox's talk pages, which included personal attacks on Marie Paradox (which Apostle12 claimed was justified given some comments on Marie Paradox's talk page, though the comment in question was from 2009), and eventually, other editors.

At roughly the same time, Apostle12 contacted other editors with a history of edit conflicts on White privilege that appear to be aligned ideologically, successfully canvassing several editors with similar views to the article.

For a period of several weeks, Apostle12 has stated that they would make no edits to the article itself, but continued to pontificate and use the talk page as a soapbox, disrupting the process the talk page was designed for.

During that period, several new editors arrived with clear POVs aligned with or identical to Apostle12, sparking an edit war that prompted the protection of the page. Given the history of Apostle12's possible WP:CAN violations, it remains a suspicious event in at least one editor's mind, especially in light of the 2005 ArbCom ruling (quoted from WP:MEAT):

For the purposes of dispute resolution, the Arbitration Committee issued a decision in 2005 stating "whether a party is one user with sockpuppets or several users with similar editing habits they may be treated as one user with sockpuppets."

Apostle12's hiatus from editing at White privilege suggested to some editors that a RfC/U was no longer a priority. Since Apostle12 has returned to editing that page, it seems like comment and input on Apostle12's previous behavior could be helpful in guiding him or her in their future edits.

Other editors tell of a much lengthier history of similar behavior by Apostle12 at White privilege, and additional references from earlier interactions can be provided, if needed.

Evidence of disputed behavior

(Provide diffs. Links to entire articles aren't helpful unless the editor created the entire article. Edit histories also aren't helpful as they change as new edits are performed.)

Initial incident, verges on outright WP:3RR and/or WP:NPOV , ,

WP:CAN , , ,

Added post-certification by UseTheCommandLine (talk) 23:13, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

previous attempt to work with Apostle12 on this:

WP:V (some references may be acceptable, some not) , ensuing discussion

WP:SOAP ,

WP:NPA , , ,

Applicable policies and guidelines

1. WP:DE
2. WP:NPOV
3. WP:SOAP
4. WP:NPA
5. WP:OWN
6. WP:CAN
7. WP:V
8. potentially, WP:3RR depending on one's interpretation

Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute

(Provide diffs of the comments. As with anywhere else on this RfC/U, links to entire articles aren't helpful unless the editor created the entire article. Edit histories also aren't helpful as they change as new edits are performed.)

Users certifying the basis for this dispute

{Users who tried and failed to resolve the dispute}

1. UseTheCommandLine (talk) 21:41, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
2. Marie Paradox (talk) 22:57, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
3. Inayity --Inayity (talk) 13:42, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Other users who endorse this summary

{Anyone is welcome to endorse this or any other view, but do not change other people's views. RFC/U does not accept "opposes" or "anti-endorsements"; the fact that you do not endorse a view indicates that you do not entirely agree with it. Discussion of this view or other people's endorsements belongs on the talk page, not in this section.}

Users who endorse this summary:

1. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 19:07, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
2. Thucydides411 (talk) 06:16, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
3. — alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 07:55, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Outside view by Til Eulenspiegel

In my experiences over 6 years of editing, Apostle12 has only been one of wikipedia's productive, thoughtful and reasonable editors since 2006. It is indeed dismaying to see the recent trend of these transparently political RFC's, that it seems are being employed as a tactic in a crass attempt to manipulate consensus, by restricting certain discussions to a relatively small number of editors who share the same viewpoint. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 19:15, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary:

1. Agreed. Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 04:16, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
2. I think this is exactly right. When I began editing, my right to do so was immediately called into question by Marie Paradox: . -Thucydides411 (talk) 06:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Outside view by Elkman

I haven't done a huge, detailed review of Apostle12's contributions, but after doing a scan of Talk:White privilege, I don't find a lot of evidence that Apostle12 is doing anything egregious in terms of personal conduct. The discussion there looks rather heated, although that isn't surprising given that the subject matter is contentious. Looking over the tone of discussion on that page, though, Apostle12's behavior looks no more out of line than Marie Paradox's or UseTheCommandLine's behavior. (With one exception: The subject heading "A truly hopeless article with truly hopeless editors" is pushing it. Then again, I've been known to get that attitude when I'm frustrated.)

As far as canvassing goes, there's a fine line between asking for more viewpoints on a discussion and blatantly saying, "I need your support here because I'm losing an argument."

The thing that does trouble me, though, is the idea that a content dispute is suddenly boiling over into an RFC/U where two editors are trying to get another editor sanctioned. The proper place for this discussion would be an RFC over the article, not a mini-inquisition into Apostle12's conduct. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 04:16, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary:

1. Agreed. This is not a proper use of RFC/U. -Thucydides411 (talk) 06:28, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
2. Precisely. dci | TALK 18:20, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
3. — alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 07:56, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Outside view by DCI2026

The idea of white privilege is innately contentious. Whatever an editor's personal opinion about the subject, he or she should strive to describe the facts and existent arguments in an entirely impartial tone. Apostle12's views differ from those of the two editors certifying this RfC; however, I am not convinced that he has done anything to insert his opinions into the article. Perhaps the repeated inclusion of the word "alleged" in the lead skirts the line of inappropriateness, but his intentions of keeping the article impartial certainly doesn't. I'm also skeptical of the claim that Apostle12 violated WP:SOAP in diff 10.

My view is fairly simple: Apostle12's edits do not merit the points outlined under "Desired outcomes". That said, there are some serious issues regarding this article that ought not to be dealt with in this forum. The problem is clear, with two parties of editors having difficulty getting past differing viewpoints regarding article content. I would strongly encourage all editors involved in this dispute to take a step back from the article, then review it in its entirety, with an emphasis on neutrality and approprite sourcing. If the problems persist, mediation would be a better alternative than pinning the problem on one editor and bringing it here.

Users who endorse this summary:

1. dci | TALK 18:19, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Outside view by ClaudeReigns

This is a difficult situation, but not unworkable. Sometimes a subject can have so much emotion that the content and the behavior tend to converge. There is a fortunate aspect to this: one might imply a content solution from a behavior solution. One could perceive that this RfC/U for an allegation, or choose to view it as a sharing of perceptions, and even choose to view it as constructive. This is not to say that I don't have a perception of what's going on. For the sake of neutrality, I can choose not to state it. I see that editors' perceptions have resulted in offenses being taken. I hope for the sake of the project that these can be forgiven. I love that all of you care about inequality and have chosen sources which speak to that. You may be very close to achieving a resolution to the problems which would result in removal of boilerplates, making the project look good, and a better understanding of one another which will result in many positive effects.

Users who endorse this summary:

1. ClaudeReigns (talk) 04:58, 29 January 2013 (UTC)