Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2025 December 1

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December 1

Template:NASCAR on Speed

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was relisted on 2025 December 9. Izno (talk) 17:25, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Module:Graph

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Izno (talk) 17:26, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

Another graph template which should be deleted once uses are converted to Charts. Most transclusions are actually of {{Graph:Chart}}, which is already being deleted. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:44, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:North American Game

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Izno (talk) 17:25, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

WP:NENAN. Most of these articles sparingly mention hunting (Rock ptarmigan and Virginia opossum), and these are taxonomically unrelated animals. I can't imagine this template actually being used. -1ctinus📝🗨 15:42, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

2027 Men's Rugby World Cup table templates

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Izno (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

It is common practive to not use tables and instead insert them directly to their respective page. When they need to be transcribed on to another page, {{#section:Name of article|Standings}} can be used in place of the template when <section begin=Standings /> is place before the table and <section end=Standings />. 2025 Women's Rugby World Cup and 2023 Rugby World Cup are just two examples of this practice being used. Louis (talk) (contribs) 14:37, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Condensed matter experiments

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Izno (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

Template has only 6 of hundreds of possible entries. A brief discussion at WT:Physics#Template:Condensed matter experiments was unanimous that this is not salvegable and it should be deleted. Ldm1954 (talk) 13:51, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Campeonato Pernambucano

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was relisted on 2025 December 8. Izno (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Kenyan English

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Izno (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

This talk page template is redundant following the deletion of its article counterpart {{Use Kenyan English}}. It should therefore be deleted. Dgp4004 (talk) 09:43, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

  • Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:54, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom --Lenticel (talk) 01:29, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
  • Delete – Per the rationale I expressed in the other discussion. Yours, &c. RGloucester — ☎ 10:06, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
  • Delete as not usable for the same reason as its companion template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:41, 6 December 2025 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Vestrian24Bio 12:26, 8 December 2025 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:History of Thailand (1932–1973)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Izno (talk) 17:27, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

Nominating after three years. There hasn't been much improvement or purpose for these template to remain as is. All three templates are unnecessary and violate Wikipedia:TEMPLATECREEP and WP:NENAN. We already have Template:History of Thailand navbox. And all articles to some extant are already covered by other relevant navboxes such as monarchs, prime ministers, elections, protests, coups, wars. More navboxes are not needed and certainly not for every period for every country. How are PM's relevant to a history navbox when we don't even have the same for other heads of state or government for history of a specific country? A main country history navbox for an overview of general topics are enough. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:04, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 03:54, 24 November 2025 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Izno (talk) 06:28, 1 December 2025 (UTC)
Delete Absolute nightmare of a template. Use the much better {{History of Thailand navbox}}. These could basically be articles in and of themselves. Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 23:57, 6 December 2025 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom and Izno. Vestrian24Bio 12:25, 8 December 2025 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Country data Gilgit-Baltistan

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was relisted on 2025 December 8. Izno (talk) 17:27, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:LDS Temple

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was merge to Template:LDS Temple and potentially split out an infobox as well (i.e. a single template may not be the best final outcome). This is clearly a complex set of templates, with some being used in a variety of places and with a variety of outputs depending on the circumstance, which as indicated by the participants is not ideal from a maintenance and upkeep standpoint. Initial discussion sounds like a module for data would be the best way forward, but I do not want to mandate that (or a single template-space page) in case something better is proposed during coding/testing/further discussion. Primefac (talk) 15:29, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

Propose merging Template:LDS Temple with its subpages.Link/text changed to indicate subpages
Not seeking to delete. But I notice there's dozens of single usage sub-page templates inside of of the category:

Each one is a single religious location's unique infobox. So it's like each LDS church has a unique infobox only for it's church article. Is there not an easier way to merge these all? Or does each article really need its own customized infobox template? CaribDigita (talk) 02:04, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

Merge - Tried to do this before and it was rejected. You should not have separate subtemplates for each transclusion. This is absurd use of templates. The argument for it is that it also populates data in tables but there is no other template that does this bizarre syntax style. This is akin to having a separate subtemplate for every instance of {{Infobox building}} so you don't have to manually update pages like List of tallest buildings. strongly support converting this to a standard infobox like all the others where the data is stored on the related articles and not in custom subtemplates. Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 05:22, 1 December 2025 (UTC)
Comment: I'm trying to go down this rabbit hole. So Newport Beach California Temple#See also uses Template:LDS Temple Map Group Los Angeles which uses Template:LDS Temple Map Los Angeles which uses Template:LDS Temple/Los Angeles California Temple with |format=LDSmap. Template:LDSmap then uses only |status= from Template:LDS Temple/Los Angeles California Temple to pick an image. Seems Template:Template parameter value could handle that instead. So unless I'm missing something, these stand-alone templates should be subst into their main articles and then deleted, with other usages fetching the parameter. Another option which might be less costly, is to just have template with the status of the temples. Gonnym (talk) 11:55, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
  • Keep until there is a real plan to deal with the complex use of this family of templates. Look at the previous TFDs (some number of these templates are nominated every couple of years by people who have not delved into the complexity). Come up with a plan first, then demonstrate that it will work with all of the pages that use this family of templates. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:48, 6 December 2025 (UTC)
    @Jonesey95 and Gonnym: So the thing I still don't get is why a template is needed to store this information for use in multiple places. As I said above, this is like having hundreds of instances of {{Infobox building/SomeBuilding}} to maintain those articles AND the List of tallest buildings. The values that are repeated in multiple locations, do not change.
    Here is a specific example, Template:LDS Temple/Los Angeles California Temple populates the Infobox on Los Angeles California Temple and the table on List of temples in the United States (LDS Church). That table has 5 columns:
    1. A map - here the GPS coordinates have to be manually put into the table already, they do NOT use the seprate infoboxes to get the coords
    2. An image/link to temple's article - These tiny images really don't need to be there, but setting that aside, no need to pull them from another template. Just put regular wiki-markup and use the image. Obviously you can just use a regular wikilink for the Temple's name
    3. Location - This is never going to change. No need to pull from another template.
    4. Dedication date/Status - This is the only field that might need occasional updating
    5. Floor area - This won't change unless a temple undergoes MAJOR renovations.
    So what I am seeing is we have to maintain nearly 100 templates and the ONLY benefit is that in the event that a temple closes for renovation, or is finished being built, we only have to update 1 page instead of 2 (possibly 3 in rare cases). I just think the overhead maintenance and the violation of the spirit of the template namespace dramatically outweigh this tiny benefit.
    I will also point out that Category:Pages using infobox LDS Temple with unknown parameters (3) is FULL of pages because of how poorly maintained these templates are. The nature of how they are implemented, with <pre>...</pre> tags all over the place, makes it virtually impossible to check for duplicate params or unknown params.
    I feel very strongly these should be converted to traditional infoboxes where the actual data is store on the article pages, not in the template namespace. For all the above reasons, but also usability. If I want to change the president of Columbus Ohio Temple, that change is done in the Template NS?? That makes very little sense to me... Also it doesn't work with tools like Template Data Editor. Just so many problems for so little reward.
    FWIW, if you concern is about how to make the transition, let that be a concern for the holding cell. You know we've done harder things than this before. Plus, I'm more than happy to take it on and ensure there is no loss of information. Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 00:20, 7 December 2025 (UTC)
    The Los Angeles template that you mention is transcluded in 20+ pages, not just two. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:31, 7 December 2025 (UTC)
    Also, one of the reasons that the unknown parameter category is was so big is that Zackmann08 accidentally removed valid parameters from the parameter check. This is what I'm talking about; this is a complex set of templates that requires research and understanding before even nominating it for discussion. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:46, 7 December 2025 (UTC)
    @Jonesey95: Thank you for correcting my mistake. Egg on my face for sure. I guess your point that this is a complex set of templates ... is exactly my point. This is overly complicated with very little reward. The fact that something that claims to be an Infobox is transcluded in 20+ places makes no sense to me. There is a reason that this sort of thing is not done anywhere else.
    Now obviously I'm not infallible, but the fact that undocumented and unused params need to be included in the unknown params check for {{Infobox LDS Temple}} because a different template calls it and therefore they kind of are valid parameters is just overly confusing. Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 17:54, 7 December 2025 (UTC)
    First, these template pages do not claim to be infoboxes. Template subpages like Template:LDS Temple/Los Angeles California Temple are used in 20+ pages; they state at the top that they are "Data for lists and infobox", which is very different. And yes, the infobox parameter check situation, and this whole clever set of templates and data tables, is quite confusing, thus a reason to consider any merge proposal and design very carefully, well before the templates are put in the holding cell. There might be a better way to prevent this sort of accidental parameter check deletion in the future, such as hiding parameters used in another template in a noinclude section or a display:none section of the infobox template. I'm happy to discuss those possibilities on the infobox template's talk page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:01, 7 December 2025 (UTC)
    Ok that's fair. You are correct, they don't claim to be infoboxes. That is an inaccurate statement on my part and I retract it. I guess my point is that the fact that this is all so confusing is a reason for it to be changed, not a reason to keep it. Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 19:18, 7 December 2025 (UTC)
    until there is a real plan to deal with the complex use of this family of templates - I thought I was pretty clear. If the templates are subst into the article, then {{Template parameter value}} can work. That template has examples in its doc to show how. Gonnym (talk) 13:37, 9 December 2025 (UTC)
  • Delete/merge this confusion with some prejudice. Izno (talk) 17:29, 8 December 2025 (UTC)
  • comment, I could see merging this into a main module with a data submodule, similar to what is done with Module:Solar eclipse. Frietjes (talk) 23:05, 8 December 2025 (UTC)
    I can 100% get behind Frietjes' idea... Would be a major improvement. Jonesey95 what do you think of that idea? I think this accomplishes both our concerns:
    • My desires to get this data out of the template namespace and increase readability/understanding
    • Your concern that the data needs to stay centralized such that it can be used in multiple locations.
    Happy to make this happen if this is a plan people can get behind.
    The more I think about this the more I like it. Much like Module:Solar eclipse has different submodules per century, we can have different submodules for each country where LDS temples are to keep data better organized. --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 23:22, 8 December 2025 (UTC)
    I think that would be the only reasonable way to do it. Module:Adjacent stations also comes to mind. I am not a programmer, so I don't know which sort of structure would work better for this project. One nice thing about the proposal is that it could be developed in parallel with the existing pages and templates, and demonstrated in a series of tests until it matches the existing system. I caution against closing this TFD as "merge" or "delete" without a replacement being built and demonstrated first. It's probably best to close it as "no consensus". – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:10, 9 December 2025 (UTC)
    I would say we could close it as merge with a clear note saying reliant on a working Module replacement. There is precedent here with {{Infobox ship}} which has been in the holding cell for 3 and a half years... At least then it makes clear we are working towards a better solution. In any event, I def support this new approach! Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 06:35, 9 December 2025 (UTC)
Subst and delete or use Frietjes's idea for a data sub-module. This complexity isn't needed. I've shown above that the only thing it does, it gets a "status" value. For that reason I don't even think a sub-module is needed, as that makes these infoboxes just like any other infobox. Would we create a sub-module for schools, just because we want to get the "status" of the school also? But I'm "fine" with that idea as it still reduces dozens of unnecessary templates from our system and makes editing in this topic easier. Gonnym (talk) 13:40, 9 December 2025 (UTC)
Merge per nom Dgp4004 (talk) 18:31, 9 December 2025 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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