Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2025 December 22
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December 22
Template:Notnow
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by Pppery (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 23:02, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Template:Notnow (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
I don't think this template is helpful; WP:NOTNOW cases need gentle encouragement in one's own words. Boilerplate is not going to work—if it did, they would've listed to the extensive boilerplate at WP:RFA/N telling them to think twice, and then twice more. Delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:28, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 08:05, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:National symbols of Wales
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was relisted on 2026 January 5. * Pppery * it has begun... 20:45, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
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Template:Traditional and public holidays in Scotland
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was merge to Template:Scotland topics. * Pppery * it has begun... 20:44, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Template:Traditional and public holidays in Scotland (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
- Template:Scotland topics (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Propose merging Template:Traditional and public holidays in Scotland with Template:Scotland topics.
No need for a separate navbox. Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 20:45, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- pls stop overloading country templates making them inaccessible. Luckily only 20% of people see these. Moxy🍁 23:24, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Merge per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Merge: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 08:03, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:Fue (flute)
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by Pppery (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 23:02, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Template:Fue (flute) (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
This template is used inside Template:Traditional Japanese musical instruments and on some pages both appear. This should just be subst into the larger template and deleted. Gonnym (talk) 18:17, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Unnecessarily duplicative. I have WP:BOLDly substituted it into the broader navbox. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 22:54, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per above --Lenticel (talk) 06:40, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 08:03, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:Use Maltese English
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 02:54, 30 December 2025 (UTC)
- Template:Use Maltese English (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
- Template:Maltese English (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
This template is not usable, for the same reasons as some of the other "Use X English" templates that have recently been deleted. The sole purpose of these templates is to provide guidance to editors about the spellling, vocabulary, and grammar in writing articles, but per the article at Maltese English, "There is no grammar book, and while several bilingual MaltE-BrE dictionaries exist, there is no defining dictionary". A lack of standards means that guidance is impossible to provide. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:29, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete/Change to BrE tag Maltese English uses British English for spelling and grammar with some Maltese/Italian influence on calques and loanwords in colloquial use, these should be avoided in favour of MOS:COMMONALITY and thus we should just simply use a British English tag. Proper British English is the form of English taught in school and used in tertiary education in Malta. Traumnovelle (talk) 20:11, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per the nominator's rationale and because they are practically unused. The singular use of either template is at Talk:Malta, so that is easily removed by an editor if these are deleted. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 22:23, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- delete per nom --Lenticel (talk) 06:40, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Dgp4004 (talk) 09:22, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Not useful and only creates confusion. Johnuniq (talk) 09:29, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 08:02, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
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Module:SuccessScoreandRanking
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by Pppery (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 23:02, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Module:SuccessScoreandRanking (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Unused sports-related module. Gonnym (talk) 12:52, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 08:01, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
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Module:Goalscorers/data/2027 FIFA Women's World Cup qualification (UEFA)
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Keep * Pppery * it has begun... 20:40, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Module:Goalscorers/data/2027 FIFA Women's World Cup qualification (UEFA) (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Unused data module. Gonnym (talk) 12:49, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 16:14, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Keep - BLUF: WP:IAR
- This data module will be used in just a couple months for UEFA qualification. It is easier and better for the project in the long run to keep it than to require it to be rebuilt or refunded. This is a purely bureaucratic nomination with no effort to determine whether it will be used in the near-term. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 16:14, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Comment on my own !vote: Per WP:TFD#REASONS #3, templates and modules should be deleted if
[t]he template is not used ... and has no likelihood of being used.
(emphasis in original) Since this dataset is definitely going to be used, I would suggest that this discussion be closed as a speedy keep, or that Gonnym withdraws the nomination. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 22:39, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Comment on my own !vote: Per WP:TFD#REASONS #3, templates and modules should be deleted if
- Keep - certainly going to be used. Technically could argue WP:TOOSOON, but no harm in keeping it. Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 17:45, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
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Module:DartsRankings/data/WSDT Players
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was speedy delete. PhantomSteve/talk¦contribs\ 00:06, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Module:DartsRankings/data/WSDT Players (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Unused data module. Gonnym (talk) 12:49, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Speedy delete - WP:T5 - Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 06:04, 24 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:Lazard
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 02:54, 30 December 2025 (UTC)
- Template:Lazard (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Outdated and not useful Update6 (talk) 11:03, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 07:56, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:Hooshmand Dehghan
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted as G7 by Explicit (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Template:Hooshmand Dehghan (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Navbox with only 2 core links, the person and a book. That isn't enough for a navigation template. Gonnym (talk) 08:46, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
Agree. As the creator, I agree with the deletion of this template as it was created prematurely.حسابان (talk) 15:40, 24 December 2025 (UTC)
Support deletion. I created the article "Hooshmand Dehghan" and find this template redundant.Mojgoon (talk) 11:39, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:Hangon click preload
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by Pppery (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 23:02, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Template:Hangon click preload (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
This preload is unused, as {{hangon}} has been deprecated for over a decade. jlwoodwa (talk) 07:43, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom --Lenticel (talk) 06:41, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 07:55, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:Politics of California
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by Pppery (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 23:02, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Template:Politics of California (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Barely used and has WAY too many links. Merge the important ones {{California}}. Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 06:58, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 07:54, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- delete per nom --Lenticel (talk) 00:05, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:Eat JUST, Inc.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 06:54, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- Template:Eat JUST, Inc. (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Contains the founders names and one product only, not useful Update6 (talk) 06:39, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 07:54, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:HanesBrands
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was relisted on 2026 January 5. * Pppery * it has begun... 20:38, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Template:HanesBrands (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
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Template:RfCheck
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by Pppery (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 23:02, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Template:RfCheck (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
A template which would allow people to request WP:CHECKUSER via an WP:RFA-like process. There is an established protocol to become a CU, and it does not involve a public election. Delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:33, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Gonnym (talk) 08:47, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete as obviated by the current process. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 16:26, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom --Lenticel (talk) 06:41, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 07:52, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:RfC3subst
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by Pppery (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 23:02, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Template:RfC3subst (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Unused template for the {{historical}} WP:RFC/U process; safe to delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:31, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Gonnym (talk) 08:47, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete as obviated. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 16:27, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- delete per nom --Lenticel (talk) 06:41, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 07:52, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:Use Trinidad and Tobago English
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 06:45, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- Template:Use Trinidad and Tobago English (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
The formal spelling variant used by government and academic institutions in Trinidad and Tobago is described in this source this source as being based on British English spelling. Unlike other dialects, there is no officially sanctioned spelling system for the form of English native to Trinidad and Tobago nor any true form of standardisation suitable for use on Wikipedia. CROIXtalk 01:59, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete This should be a maintenance template providing guidance to editors. All this does is create confusion—does an editor have to study Trinidad and Tobago English before contributing? Johnuniq (talk) 04:17, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. Dgp4004 (talk) 11:16, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Dgp4004 I'd like to ask you to reconsider your !vote "per nom", given that the nom is based on a a doc that was uploaded to Scribd that has no listed author and no claims of verifiability, and two other claims that are false. Guettarda (talk) 23:41, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- The lack of spelling standards for Trinidad and Tobago English is a true statement. There are no Trinidadian spelling standards published or used by any government institutions (including for internal use), academic institutions, or major newspapers. Additionally, the sole dictionary mentioned in this discussion contains a mixture of standard English and creole terms, not suitable for judging standard English spelling. CROIXtalk 23:46, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Dgp4004 I'd like to ask you to reconsider your !vote "per nom", given that the nom is based on a a doc that was uploaded to Scribd that has no listed author and no claims of verifiability, and two other claims that are false. Guettarda (talk) 23:41, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- delete per nom --Lenticel (talk) 06:41, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Lenticel I'd like to ask you to reconsider your !vote "per nom", given that the nom is based on a a doc that was uploaded to Scribd that has no listed author and no claims of verifiability, and two other claims that are false. Guettarda (talk) 23:41, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- The lack of spelling standards for Trinidad and Tobago English is a true statement. There are no Trinidadian spelling standards published or used by government institutions (including for internal use), academic institutions, or major newspapers. Additionally, the sole dictionary mentioned in this discussion contains a mixture of standard English and creole terms, not suitable for judging standard English spelling. CROIXtalk 23:46, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Lenticel I'd like to ask you to reconsider your !vote "per nom", given that the nom is based on a a doc that was uploaded to Scribd that has no listed author and no claims of verifiability, and two other claims that are false. Guettarda (talk) 23:41, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- Wait, what? I have no shares in language templates, so I won't vote, but I would like to point out that votes should be based on facts, not gut feelings. The Dictionary of the English/Creole of Trinidad & Tobago has 1.072 pages with 12.000 keywords. "Some Americanisms" is a joke considering the plethora of loanwords based on the French (and to a degree) Spanish colonial history and the contemporary influence of East Indian dialects. (Among) The first entries of the dictionary: aach, aadhaa, aadhi, aage, aam. Sorry, I almost choked on that "some Americanisms" thing. Kind regards, Grueslayer 09:54, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- It's because Wikipedia is only written in 'standard' (i.e. formal) English, whereas many of those words are Creole. The English language Wikipedia cannot be written in Creole terminology or else most readers would not understand it. Dgp4004 (talk) 10:13, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- Interesting. In the German language Wikipedia, articles on Austrian topics use a template indicating that (de:Vorlage:österreichbezogen, would be "Template:Use Austrian German" in English), and in those articles Austrian German is used instead of German German, e.g. Januar (january) is written as Jänner. Wait, is it not the same here with British and American English? Kind regards, Grueslayer 12:20, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- If someone has an interest in a topic they are welcome to edit an article they know something about and use appropriate words such as "elevator" or "lift", and use appropriate spelling such as "color" or "colour". Those differences acknowledge that the vast majority of editors follow US or UK spelling, maybe with some quirks. It may be that Trinidad and Tobago English has a different word for elevator/lift. Unless discussing language or for some other good reason, an article here would have to use a recognizable word such as elevator or lift. Using some other word would just create confusion. Johnuniq (talk) 00:47, 24 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Johnuniq
Unless discussing language or for some other good reason, an article here would have to use a recognizable word such as elevator or lift.
But which word would you use in a TT context, elevator, or lift? Trunk or boot? Hood or bonnet? Obviously you'd use "elevator", "trunk" and "bonnet". But you wouldn't know that if there's a tagged to use British (or American) English.
Guettarda (talk) 20:48, 25 December 2025 (UTC)Specifically, she points out that, while terms which denote ‘official,educational or governmental’ referents retain British English forms, there is evidence of change in progress towards American English terms, as in the semantic field of cars and driving, where the American terms prevail...Winer notes that while the word for protective glass in the frontand back of the car in STE is the British windscreen, the word for the long extensions that clean this is windshield wipers, an American term...the Trinidadian Guardian newspaper makes use of more AmE than BrE word types, although there are overall more BrE (53%) thanAmE (47%) tokens (Hänsel & Deuber, 2013, p. 342)[1]
- Your source claims that official, educational, and governmental sources use British English terminology. MOS:TIES requires that the country's formal dialect of English be used for articles with strong national ties to a topic. Would the dialect of English (namely British English), which is used by "official, educational, and governmental sources" not be Trinidad and Tobago's formal English variety? While the spoken situation may be different, it appears that official sources are using British English writing standards. CROIXtalk 00:05, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
Your source claims that official, educational, and governmental sources use British English terminology.
No, it says "terms which denote", which isn't the same.MOS:TIES requires that the country's formal dialect of English be used for articles with strong national ties to a topic.
Yes, and that is Trinidad and Tobago Standard English - something that exists, something that's part of the International Corpus of English.- In the end, this is a debate about whether a template should be deleted. It doesn't change the MOS. The correct variety of standard English to use is TTSE. If you want to change that, you have to change WP:ENGVAR. Guettarda (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- Your source claims that official, educational, and governmental sources use British English terminology. MOS:TIES requires that the country's formal dialect of English be used for articles with strong national ties to a topic. Would the dialect of English (namely British English), which is used by "official, educational, and governmental sources" not be Trinidad and Tobago's formal English variety? While the spoken situation may be different, it appears that official sources are using British English writing standards. CROIXtalk 00:05, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Johnuniq
- If someone has an interest in a topic they are welcome to edit an article they know something about and use appropriate words such as "elevator" or "lift", and use appropriate spelling such as "color" or "colour". Those differences acknowledge that the vast majority of editors follow US or UK spelling, maybe with some quirks. It may be that Trinidad and Tobago English has a different word for elevator/lift. Unless discussing language or for some other good reason, an article here would have to use a recognizable word such as elevator or lift. Using some other word would just create confusion. Johnuniq (talk) 00:47, 24 December 2025 (UTC)
- Interesting. In the German language Wikipedia, articles on Austrian topics use a template indicating that (de:Vorlage:österreichbezogen, would be "Template:Use Austrian German" in English), and in those articles Austrian German is used instead of German German, e.g. Januar (january) is written as Jänner. Wait, is it not the same here with British and American English? Kind regards, Grueslayer 12:20, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- It's because Wikipedia is only written in 'standard' (i.e. formal) English, whereas many of those words are Creole. The English language Wikipedia cannot be written in Creole terminology or else most readers would not understand it. Dgp4004 (talk) 10:13, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Comment - Can you explain why you consider some random document on Scribd to be a suitable source here? Scribd is not a reliable source for use on Wikipedia. The document does not include any information about authorship or publication in the part I can read without subscribing or something. So how is this supposed to work? Guettarda (talk) 19:29, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- CROIX adding a line because the ping wouldn't have worked. But also because I'm curious about this statement:
nor any true form of standardisation suitable for use on Wikipedia
. Can you please provide some evidence for this claim? Guettarda (talk) 19:29, 25 December 2025 (UTC)- This is in line with the deletions of the other Caribbean English templates:
- CROIXtalk 05:51, 27 December 2025 (UTC)
- WTAF?!
Delete & Replace with {{Use British English}}
?! Wow. That's just straight-up wrong. It's one thing to delete the template, it's quite another to replace it with a template that adds false info. Like this site isn't already full of neocolonialist systemic bias. Guettarda (talk) 23:47, 28 December 2025 (UTC)- As mentioned in the Jamaican discussion by @Jonesey95, the {{Use British English}} provides appropriate guidance for editors. There is no guidance available for users wishing to edit using Trinidadian writing conventions. If these guidelines were readily available, and compatible with MOS:COMMONALITY, I would support retaining the template. CROIXtalk 23:52, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- WTAF?!
- CROIX adding a line because the ping wouldn't have worked. But also because I'm curious about this statement:
- Strong keep
Trinidad and Tobago English spelling
- The template says Use Trinidad and Tobago English, not simply "Trinidad and Tobago spelling".is described in this source as being based on British English spelling with some Americanisms.
- This is an unreliable source, and the information contained at odds with information that can easily be sourced from scholarly sources.
Unlike other dialects
- We aren't talking about a dialect, we're talking about Trinidad and Tobago Standard English, not Trinidadian Creole or Tobagonian Creole.there is no officially sanctioned spelling system for Trinidad and Tobago English nor any true form of standardisation suitable for use on Wikipedia
- this is false, and incredibly demeaning. Trinidad and Tobago English is part of the International Corpus of English. Trinidad and Tobago Standard English is something quite distinct from Trinidadian Creole or Tobagonian Creole, languages which do lack a standard orthography. I suspect that the nominator has confused the two.
- Trinidad and Tobago Standard English exists. Everyone will use "colour", but no one will use connexion, and few people will use "sceptic". "-ise" is more common, but "-ize" isn't incorrect. But as I said, spelling isn't the only element that defines Trinidadian Standard English. TTSE uses a mixture of American-style and English-style terminology, (as I detailed above) together with terminology that's unique. There are many terms that have gone been adopted into International English from Trinidad and Tobago English - steelpan, doubles, limbo, soca, soucouyant - so the idea that TTSE terms would "just create confusion" doesn't hold up. Guettarda (talk) 21:43, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- If the English variant is all over the place, then what exactly are editors supposed to use? Do they need to open a dictionary each time or talk to locals and see if a specific word is now Americanized? If there is no one single spelling, then just don't use any template. Gonnym (talk) 22:43, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- An example. If a Trini editor wrote an article about a Trini dish that contains aubergines (BE) or eggplants (AE), he would use the word baigan. What's the rule here? Are editors supposed to change, re-change and re-re-change that to aubergine, eggplant or baigan respectively because that would be the correct word in *their* English variety? Is that not what the templates are for? Kind regards, Grueslayer 06:14, 26 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Gonnym They're not "all over the place". It's fairly predictable. But for the average Wikipedian, it isn't going to matter. You could guess "lorry" is the right word, and even though you'd be wrong, no one would be upset. After all, it's a wiki - someone who knows the correct terminology would fix it to "truck".
- The problem is that if use replace Use TrE with Use BrE, someone will come along and "fix" the terminology. The whole reason for ENGVAR is to avoid people "fixing" what's right. A tag like this helps avoid problems. And it also means that if you don't know, you leave it alone. I'd never go to an article using Indian English and "fix" things. I have absolutely no problem reading Indian English, but I have no idea where to use variant terms. Guettarda (talk) 15:52, 26 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Grueslayer Don't forget melongene :D Guettarda (talk) 15:54, 26 December 2025 (UTC)
- "Aubergines" and "eggplants" are internationally recognised terms, while "baigan" is not, in line with MOS:COMMONALITY. CROIXtalk 05:55, 27 December 2025 (UTC)
- According to MOS:TIES that's neglectable. Kind regards, Grueslayer 22:43, 27 December 2025 (UTC)
- It is not. MOS:COMMONALITY states that
[f]or an international encyclopedia, using vocabulary common to all varieties of English is preferable
and[u]se a commonly understood word or phrase in preference to one that has a different meaning because of national differences
. "Baigan" and most other local terms are not commonly understood outside of the region. Additionally, an average editor would not be able to follow Trinidadian spelling/writing conventions anyways as the Trinidadian and Tobagonian English article provides almost no specific examples on Trinidadian writing beyond the Americanisms "apartment" and "trunk". It should be noted that a lack of accessible information for editors led to the recent deletions of Jamaican English, Antiguan and Barbudan English, and many other similar templates. CROIXtalk 05:07, 28 December 2025 (UTC)the Trinidadian and Tobagonian English article provides almost no specific examples on Trinidadian writing beyond the Americanisms "apartment" and "trunk".
@CROIX We don't use Wikipedia articles as sources. I provided a peer-reviewed source that demonstrates otherwise.It should be noted that a lack of accessible information for editors led to the recent deletions of Jamaican English, Antiguan and Barbudan English
What?! They were deleted? If that happened, at the very least Jamaican English has to be undone. Like TT English, Bahamian English, and a fourth one I don't remember offhand, Jamaican English is part of the International Corpus of English and is extremely well documented. Probably better-documented than TTSE. Guettarda (talk) 23:36, 28 December 2025 (UTC)- How should an editor know how to use Trinidadian and Tobagonian English spelling conventions if there are no available examples? These templates are meant to serve as guidance to editors. Unlike other dialects of English such as those used in the United States or Great Britain, there are no readily available spelling standards nor is there any form of guidance available on Wikipedia. CROIXtalk 23:38, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- Examples? You mean in Wikipedia articles? We can't use those.
- And yes, these exist to provide guidance to editors, not mislead editors. The fact that "Use Jamaican English" has apparently been replaced with "Use British English" is a problem, because now someone following the guidance will be justified changing correct usage into incorrect usage.
- I've been using TTSE on Wikipedia for over 20 years. If it's crept into an article that should really use AmE or BrE or Indian English, I hope someone fixes it. Like Arjayay, who has to fix every single article I create (because I end up with a double word somewhere in there).
- But when a template provides misleading guidance to editors, you end up with problems. Guettarda (talk) 23:58, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- {{Use British English}} provides guidance on how to write in said dialect. {{Use Trinidad and Tobago English}} provides absolutely none at the moment. This has contributed to the deletion of multiple Use English templates. Guidance likely cannot be provided anyways due to the lack of any published written standards by government agencies, academic institutions, newspapers, or readily available dictionaries. CROIXtalk 00:08, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- How should an editor know how to use Trinidadian and Tobagonian English spelling conventions if there are no available examples? These templates are meant to serve as guidance to editors. Unlike other dialects of English such as those used in the United States or Great Britain, there are no readily available spelling standards nor is there any form of guidance available on Wikipedia. CROIXtalk 23:38, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- It is not. MOS:COMMONALITY states that
- According to MOS:TIES that's neglectable. Kind regards, Grueslayer 22:43, 27 December 2025 (UTC)
- An example. If a Trini editor wrote an article about a Trini dish that contains aubergines (BE) or eggplants (AE), he would use the word baigan. What's the rule here? Are editors supposed to change, re-change and re-re-change that to aubergine, eggplant or baigan respectively because that would be the correct word in *their* English variety? Is that not what the templates are for? Kind regards, Grueslayer 06:14, 26 December 2025 (UTC)
- If the English variant is all over the place, then what exactly are editors supposed to use? Do they need to open a dictionary each time or talk to locals and see if a specific word is now Americanized? If there is no one single spelling, then just don't use any template. Gonnym (talk) 22:43, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 07:51, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Vestrian24Bio - I'm curious about your !vote. All the claims in the nom are either false, or based on a doc that was uploaded to Scribd that has no listed author and no claims of verifiability. Guettarda (talk) 23:39, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- The lack of an officially sanctioned spelling system for Trinidad and Tobago English is a true statement. There are no spelling standards published by any government institutions, academic institutions, or major newspapers. Additionally, the sole dictionary mentioned in this discussion contains a mixture of standard English and creole terms, not suitable for judging standard English spelling. CROIXtalk 23:45, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- Nope, it's misleading to claim there's no "officially sanctioned spelling system". "Officially sanctioned" spelling systems aren't a thing in English. It sounds right, because we know AmE spells things this way, and BrE spells thing that way, but really there are only broadly agreed-upon norms.You can use "theatre" in AmE, but you can't use "centre". "Standardise" is common usages in BrE, but the OED - the gold standard for BrE - uses "standardize". Spanish and French have royal academies for these sorts of things, German has an official body. English does not. But yeah, we have schools in TT, we learn standard spelling.
- Consider what the government of Canada says
The joint influence of British and American spelling on Canadian usage has resulted in an additional challenge: Canadians tend to follow standard British spelling for certain words (e.g. axe, cheque), American spelling for others (e.g. connection, tire), and either for yet others (e.g. programme/program, neighbour/neighbor). The important thing to remember is to be consistent and follow a regular pattern when you spell. Don’t mix neighbour with labor, for example. Choose one pattern and follow it closely. The best way to avoid problems with mixed British and American spelling is to keep a dictionary handy that shows Canadian usage.
- Dictionaries document usage, they're descriptive. Look at the OED entry for soucouyant, a Trinidadian French Creole term that has passed through Trinidadian Creole into TTSE and then into wider use. It documents a wide number of variants - soucriant, soukougnan, soukouyan, sucoyan, sukoiyaa, sukunyah, sukuya, sukuyan - but accepts soucouyant as the standard spelling.
- The OED even supplies a standard spelling for mamaguy.
- There's no "officially sanctioned" standard I can consult for BrE or AmE either. Far less Canadian, or South African, or Indian English - and that despite the fact that Indian English probably has more L1 and near-native proficiency L2 speakers than any other variety of English except AmE. Guettarda (talk) 00:41, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- By "officially sanctioned" I was referring to government style guides, such as the US GPO style manual and equivalent guides such as this one published by the British government. I was not referring to potential national English regulatory bodies, which do not exist. For clarity, I also considered "[t]here are no spelling standards published by any government institutions, academic institutions, or major newspapers" as an entirely separate statement– the lack of any spelling standards in Trinidad and Tobago (whether for internal government use or in reputable sources) was what I was trying to emphasize. Additionally, dictionaries of Trinidad and Tobago English mentioned in this discussion are mixtures of English and creole, and not useful to the average editor anyways considering the lack of policy documentation that could easily defend the usage of this standard English dialect. CROIXtalk 00:47, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- Additionally, this source claims that Trinidad and Tobago educational institutions formally teach English using British English spelling. CROIXtalk 00:55, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- The point is that Trinidad and Tobago Standard English exists. And the MOS clearly says that national varieties of standard English are (a) acceptable (which is why I've have no problem contributing to thousands on articles on Wikipedia in TTSE) and (b) should be used in cases where there are strong national ties.
- Those points aren't up for debate here. Guettarda (talk) 06:44, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- Additionally, this source claims that Trinidad and Tobago educational institutions formally teach English using British English spelling. CROIXtalk 00:55, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- By "officially sanctioned" I was referring to government style guides, such as the US GPO style manual and equivalent guides such as this one published by the British government. I was not referring to potential national English regulatory bodies, which do not exist. For clarity, I also considered "[t]here are no spelling standards published by any government institutions, academic institutions, or major newspapers" as an entirely separate statement– the lack of any spelling standards in Trinidad and Tobago (whether for internal government use or in reputable sources) was what I was trying to emphasize. Additionally, dictionaries of Trinidad and Tobago English mentioned in this discussion are mixtures of English and creole, and not useful to the average editor anyways considering the lack of policy documentation that could easily defend the usage of this standard English dialect. CROIXtalk 00:47, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Guettarda: I would suggest you stop responding to everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion. Vestrian24Bio 06:13, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Vestrian24Bio So that means you're standing by a "per nom" !vote despite the fact that the claims in the nom are false? Well, that's incredibly disheartening. Guettarda (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- The lack of an officially sanctioned spelling system for Trinidad and Tobago English is a true statement. There are no spelling standards published by any government institutions, academic institutions, or major newspapers. Additionally, the sole dictionary mentioned in this discussion contains a mixture of standard English and creole terms, not suitable for judging standard English spelling. CROIXtalk 23:45, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Vestrian24Bio - I'm curious about your !vote. All the claims in the nom are either false, or based on a doc that was uploaded to Scribd that has no listed author and no claims of verifiability. Guettarda (talk) 23:39, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Template:Schools in Jamaica
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) HurricaneZetaC 02:30, 1 January 2026 (UTC)
Subject of template is far too broad. How are all 4,000 schools in the country supposed to fit into one template assuming this is ever of use? CROIXtalk 01:56, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Shouldn't this just be limited to notable schools/those with articles? I doubt all 4,000 schools will qualify for an article. Traumnovelle (talk) 03:47, 26 December 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. If we ever get to the point where we have enough articles about Jamaican schools for it to be a problem, we can split the template or rename it to narrow its scope. As is, it's fine. Guettarda (talk) 15:57, 26 December 2025 (UTC)
- Keep - there is a clear precedent for these types of navboxes. I agree with Guettarda that if it ever gets too large, then it can be split. For now I see no issue beyond a fear that it may in the future become too large. Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 16:27, 26 December 2025 (UTC)
- Keep The 4000 schools of Jamaica also include "3,000 pre-primary" schools, as stated in the source. Plus "995 primary and preparatory schools", according to the same source. Cut these to categories out (and explain that in the template) and you have a reasonable size. The Banner talk 21:04, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- keep for now. We can always divide to smaller templates in the future --Lenticel (talk) 00:02, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
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Template:National Heritage Sites in Jamaica
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by Pppery (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 23:02, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Template:National Heritage Sites in Jamaica (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Consists almost entirely of redlinks not useful for navigation. Even if the majority of these redlinks are ever created, the template is so large that if it were to be of navigational use, it would likely have to be split up for each parish.CROIXtalk 01:54, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 07:48, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- Delete for now. I can see this being kept if it's trimmed to only focus on those with blue links--Lenticel (talk) 00:04, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
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Module:Chessboard
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was merge to Module:Chessboard. * Pppery * it has begun... 20:35, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
- Module:Chessboard (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
- Module:Chessboard mxn (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Propose merging Module:Chessboard with Module:Chessboard mxn.
module:chessboard produces essentially the same board as module:chessboard mxn, except it's way more accessible in the latter module. sapphaline (talk) 14:46, 22 December 2025 (UTC)
- comment, I seem to remember there was some problem with the "post-include size" when using module:chessboard mxn. I am just re-reading this thread with DixonD and קיפודנחש now. Frietjes (talk) 16:36, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- sorry, the linked discussion is from 12+ years ago, and I draw a blank.
- as of now I do not have strong opinion.
- technically, I doubt there is any meaningful difference in speed of rendering (I think one of them contains more images, but "speed" only becomes an issue when you have large number of boards in one page, in which case many of the images are identical, so only have to be pulled from server once - actual rendering speed may differ between different browsers. if it's a concern, up to date measurements should be taken).
- one of them may be more "expensive" in total html size - I think that I expressed some concerns about it in the 12+ YO discussion, if it's a real concern (I.e., if there are pages which use these modules and getting close to size limits), some up to date "measurements" may help decide.
- peace. קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 18:37, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
- Merge per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
- Merge: per nom. Vestrian24Bio 07:48, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
- Merge per nom --Lenticel (talk) 00:04, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.