Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 140

Hello, I'm working on several articles where it will help to be able to make *multiple* fair use quotes from a *single* cited source, as a means to WP:PROVEIT for several sentences in the body-prose. It is possible to do this now, using normal <ref name=s>{{cite web |url=http://you.tu.be |title=sTitle |year=2015 |quote=LongThingHere }}</ref> for the first sentence, and then repeatedly using <ref name=s /> for the additional sentences.

  However, the |quote= parameter of {{cite web}} can only be used *once* that I am aware of, so if you want to have quoted-snippets that back up five different factoids in five different body-prose sentences of the article, you end up having a VERY LONG ascii string in the |quote= portion of the cite_web template. So long, in fact, that Other Editors ... not naming any names :-)   ... might complain. Or, uh, not saying this happened or anything, just delete the entire |quote= param with an edit-summary like "this is way too long are you out of yer dern mind???" ... ahem.

  An *alternative* existing solution, see WP:Nesting_footnotes#Reference_within_note, which is reasonably workable, is to stop using |quote= with a huge glommed-together set of five fair-use-snippets, and instead put individual {{efn}} templates containing each quoted-snippet. This works out pretty well, but requires adding a new section to the article, and makes the readership hop twice. (It also requires the addition of template:efn syntax.) The difference in how the alternative-layout works compared to the long-ellipsis-layout is best illustrated by example, see greenbox. I've also proposed (inside the greenbox) a hypothetical third way, which I don't believe is supported in wiki-syntax.

In the third example, I've used the 90-minute presidential debate of 2008 as an example. It makes sense that we'd like to have a hardcoded ascii quoted-snippets, so the readership need not load up the 90-minute-long streaming video, launch a video-codec, or indeed, leave wikipedia at all. It also makes sense that we'd like to link the suspicious readership, who might not trust the wikipedia-quoted-snippet is accurate, directly to that point in the video, where the quoted-snippet is verbalized, so they can easily WP:V. Finally, it also makes sense that we'd like to repeat ourselves as little as possible, and keep all the pieces together in one place, and not add an extraneous 'Notes' section. Anyways, my first question is:

• can what I'm trying to achieve already be accomplished, and if so, what is the exact wiki-syntax please?

My second contingent question, assuming that what I want cannot be done without upgrading mediawiki and/or adding some kind of Template:footquote or whatever, is:

• how hard will such an upgrade be, to implement?

FYI, two other fairly-recent threads about nesting footnotes:

• WP:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_138#Nesting_footnotes
• WP:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_65#Nested_footnotes_aren.27t_workning_when_list-defined
• see also, nested-footnotes helpdocs for what doesn't work (wish it did).

Thanks, 75.108.94.227 (talk) 11:02, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

You might consider using {{sfn}}. Here is your example reworked:

Prose-sentence#1.^[1] Prose-sentence#2.^[2] Prose-sentence#3.^[3] Prose-sentence#4.^[4] Prose-sentence#5.^[5]

• "Obama v McCain". YouTube. 2008.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:24, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello User:Trappist the monk, thanks, and I had that avenue recommended to me on IRC, but my problem with {{sfn}} is the repetition:

• Prose-sentence#1.{{sfn|Obama v McCain|2008|loc=[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvdfO0lq4rQ#t=111s Snippet #1]}}
• Prose-sentence#2.{{sfn|Obama v McCain|2008|loc=[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvdfO0lq4rQ#t=222s Snippet #2]}}

and so on. I could just as well use multiple <ref>...</ref> instantiations:

• Prose-sentence#1.<ref name=ref2quote1>{{cite web |title=Obama v McCain |year=2008 |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvdfO0lq4rQ#t=111s |quote=backing-snippet #1}}</ref>
• Prose-sentence#2.<ref name=ref2quote2>{{cite web |title=Obama v McCain |year=2008 |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvdfO0lq4rQ#t=222s |quote=backing-snippet #2}}</ref>

The trouble is, what if there's a bug in my metadata, and the video in question was actually filmed in December 2007, or something? Then I have to go through and find *all* the places I mentioned the video. I already have to do that when the references are spread across multiple articles, of course... and thus maybe, the 'correct' answer here is, every ref *should* be complete unto itself, repetition be damned.

  I don't think so, though: it puffs up the refs-section, and makes it look like there are five sources (#1 to #5) when really there are just multiple quotation-snippets from a single actual source. To solve that puffed-up-refcount-issue, and reduce repetition, I like to use <ref name=foo /> instead, but when I'm using multiple-snippets inside the |quote= that doesn't work out too well (the quote-field gets huge). I tried to figure out if there was a way to use {{refn}} to accomplish what I am after, since that permits nesting and doesn't mandate a new section, but I don't think it can do what I want it to do. Maybe I'm missing something? 75.108.94.227 (talk) 14:04, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

You know, there isn't a 'space' problem. Nor is there a problem if the article has one more section. There are no physical limitations. I think that a section of quotes is perfectly legitimate and, from this reader's point of view, much better than burying the quotes in cs1|2 templates in amongst the citations.

Where is a real world example of the problem you are trying to solve? Examples can only go so far.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:20, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Donald Trump presidential campaign, 2016 is a place where I think the 'Notes' section, which so far I'm the only one to use, is probably putting WP:UNDUE emphasis on the contents of the notes. I would much rather them be in the {{reflist}} with all the other footnotes. At the same time, it is not possible to do that, without nesting reftags, and the article is already using the normal <ref>...</ref> style, plus I would not WANT to change over to one of the nesting-supported-styles since most people don't know the weird template-syntax those nesting-supported-styles support. But this is definitely a case where I felt like I was causing a problem with WP:NPOV when I added the 'Notes' section (but there was a bigger NPOV problem I was *solving* by adding the notes-section so I did it anyways).

    The other article where I specifically needed a multiquote recently, and got my original attempt at a multiquote deleted since it was glomming too many things together, was on Republican Party presidential debates, 2016 where I was trying to list the decline-and-non-invitation-reasons for the C-SPAN forum. See my usertalk attempt to solve that syntax-problem outside the article, which is at multiQuote fiddling. I've had similar comments ("those cites are too damn big!" :-)   but not yet any |quote= deletions, about a BLP-article I'm working on, Draft:Ron_Schnell#cite_note-22 for instance. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 15:43, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Did you try this:

{{#tag:ref|{{cite book |title=Title |quote=Someone said: 'Those cites are too damn big!'<ref>{{cite web |url=//example.com |title=Reference supporting the too damn big assertion}}</ref>}}... but another said: 'No they're not!'<ref>{{cite web |url=//example.com |title=Refutation of the too damn big assertion}}</ref>}}}}

Some blah blah article text with a reference that has |quote=.^[3]}}

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:46, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I believe that the underlying bug (where bug is generally pronounced "feature") is phab:T3310. Tags cannot be nested (directly). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:30, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

There are several discussions on this page that aren't visible except when editing. It seems to be this edit that did it? Eman235/talk 21:47, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Fixed, they were missing a closing ref tag. Sam Walton (talk) 21:50, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Sorry everyone! 110.20.234.69 (talk) 22:05, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Currently when making a move and deletion of articles found in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion you get edit summaries like this and this. These were both tagged as G6, Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G6. Technical deletions, uncontroversial moves/deletions of redirects holding up a page move (point 3 in the list). It turns out the second was not uncontroversial and makes it look as if I was suddenly making strange page moves. Obviously the work around is to put in the summary that it was a G6 move. However, in the long run it would be much better to have the link to G6 as part of the edit summary by default, the same as a regular deletion. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 22:18, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

The logs for the deleted target pages do say "G6: Deleted to make way for move". G6 is not a reason for the move so I'm not sure why you want it in the move summary. Do you want others to know you were just responding to a request and didn't move it on your own initiative? Administrators are responsible for their actions and should evaluate the request before making the move. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:57, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm not disputing that I screwed up the second (Baahubali) move. Yes it would be useful for others to see that it was done as a request rather than just my own idea. Not everybody thinks to go to the log and it seems that one editor thought I had just decided to do the move. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 23:07, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

The prefilled move summary is made by {{db-move}}. If the move request didn't state a reason in the second parameter then it defaults to [[WP:CSD#G6|Housekeeping page move]]. If a reason is stated then that reason is used. You can suggest on talk that something with G6 is also placed in front of a stated reason. It would mean a long reason is cut off earlier. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:27, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 23:56, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I meant Template talk:db-move (which redirects to Template talk:db-meta) but I see you have posted to Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:08, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't know if this is something that's always been the case and I just never noticed, or something new. For me, sometimes a search triggers the option to create a page and sometimes it does not. Let's be concrete. I noticed this this morning upon attempting to create a redirect for OREDA in answer to a Teahouse question. When I placed that in the search bar (I use Monobook), it did not give me any option for creation (regardless of whether the search or Go button was used). That is, no:

"You may create the page "RedLink", but consider checking the search results below to see whether the topic is already covered."

I then created the redirect but only by the mechanism of previewing a red link. That redirect subsequently became an article, which was then deleted, so I can report that right now the same results obtain: any search for OREDA provides me no page creation option. (Does it for you?) But most – but not all – other things I type do result in the option, and I see no rhyme or reason to what triggers the option and what does not, other than that the common denominator seems to be that it only happen when the word is in all uppercase. However, it's inconsistent. I just tried some other combinations of random all uppercase searches and the creation option was present. Is this a bug or feature? And if a feature, what are the ground rules for what does and does not invoke it? I note that Help:Searching#Search results page says in mealy-mouth fashion that "It can report that You may create the page..." (emphasis mine).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:43, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I have an idea why it happens. MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new is usually called on searches but not on OREDA. There was once reports that people created pages with silly titles like prefix:Talk:Main Page, because they clicked the red link after making an archive search. To prevent such creations, some searches no longer give the create option. Upper case OR is part of Help:Searching#Syntax so maybe a primitive string analyzer thinks it was using OR as search syntax and not as part of a word. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:57, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Interesting. I think you're onto something. I just tried some searches with AND at the start of some random all uppercase words like ANDLDKF, and the same thing happens; no search option. Remove the N and creation option is back. Aha, NOT also triggers this.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:14, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

phab:T23102 is "Don't propose to create a page under a title with prefix:, intitle:, incategory: or other search operators". The last post says "We actually did this with Cirrus." PrimeHunter (talk) 03:43, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Ckatz uses an empty summary ad for Twinkle, but User:Ckatz/twinkleoptions.js does not exist and has never been created or deleted. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

This user sets the summary ad using the legacy TwinkleConfig object in User:Ckatz/vector.js. This method of setting Twinkle preferences is discouraged and incompatible with the WP:TWPREFS setting page, but we still support it, because a number of long-term users still have their settings stored in this way. — This, that and the other (talk) 03:46, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

After writing this post to the Administrators' noticeboard on Wikidata, I had this problem. I tried deleting my cookies after seeing this advice on Pale Moon forums, but now I'm getting a different error when directly clicking on the d:Wikidata:Administrators' noticeboard link from my Wikidata contributions:

"XML Parsing Error: unexpected parser state" ...

Could anyone offer any insight perhaps? Pale Moon 25.7 (latest version) on Windows 7. Jared Preston (talk) 12:16, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Have you tried the usual steps, like clearing the Pale Moon cache, using a different browser and restarting your computer? Do you have the same problem in Firefox? The Quixotic Potato (talk) 13:12, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Ähm, yes. I can't tell you about Firefox, but with (an old version I have of) Internet Explorer I don't have the problem. It also doesn't matter if I'm logged in or not, the page just refuses to load with the same error message "This page isn't redirecting properly". Clearance of cache and cookies makes no difference, nor does safe mode. However, no problems whatsoever in "privacy mode" which is why I'm slightly confused as to what else to do... That really would suggest that it is the cookies. Jared Preston (talk) 13:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I have the same problem in Firefox with certain Commons pages like Administrators' noticeboard/User problems. Says "The page isn't redirecting properly ... Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete. ... This problem can sometimes be caused by disabling or refusing to accept cookies." I am doing nothing different than I have been for years. -- Veggies (talk) 13:53, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I've noticed that the problem has something to do with apostrophes in the article or page title. For example: Commons:Category:People's Heroes of Yugoslavia also fails to load properly—just like the "Administrators' noticeboard" that Jared Preston is having issues with. -- Veggies (talk) 14:06, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

It's related to this ticket. Hopefully someone will deploy the latest fix soon. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:43, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

The fix has been deployed. Matma Rex talk 16:11, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

@Veggies, TheDJ, and Matma Rex: Thanks guys, I can confirm that the links to Wikidata's Administrators' noticeboard as well as those on Commons all work now. I appreciate your work and quick fix-deployment. Thank you very much! Jared Preston (talk) 19:16, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Can someone tell me when and why MathJax was removed? I liked it. (please mention me on reply) —Keφr 15:42, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

@Kephir: See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T99369 and Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2015-07-22/Technology report for the removal. If you're using Chrome, there is a third-party app https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/wikipedia-with-mathjax/fhomhkjcommffnlajeemenejemmegcmi?hl=en-GB that can re-enable mathjax, although in my experience it has some trouble with font sizing in display math. As for why, I don't think it's clearly discussed anywhere, but possible explanations include (1) previous developers implemented mathjax badly and the result was so difficult to maintain that they had to rip it out again, (2) the developers want to pressure the browser makers to support mathml by making math rendering bad for anyone whose browser doesn't support mathml, (3) the developers don't particularly care about mathematics at all and have given over that part of the software to volunteers who are more interested in helping mathml beat mathjax than they are in providing a good user experience to editors and readers. For more evidence of #3, see Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback#Indentation for mathematical equations where it turns out that the VisualEditor is incapable of editing displayed mathematics formulas in the style used in Wikipedia and the developers have instead added a parameter to the math markup that produces formulas in a different incompatible style not used here. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:26, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

See also the usertalk discussion here, which further delves into the 'why'. Basically, the WMF doesn't feel qualified to be involved, and wants volunteer devs to make the decisions. (Cf, WP:FLOW, and recent schedule slippage thereof.) Complex userland front-end software projects are not the remit of the WMF; that said, they are pretty good at doing complex server-hardware-and-backend-database-stuff, I will note. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 20:24, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

@David Eppstein: Ping fail. See why. —Keφr 21:27, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm using someone else's gadgets or user scripts by editing User:Jarodalien/vector.js, but about couple months ago most of them just not working anymore, or least not working properly.

Those three are completely gone:

• importScript('User:Liangent/User:Pyrospirit/metadata.js');
• importScript('User:Liangent/User:Pyrospirit/metadata/assesslinks.js');
• importScript('User:Pyrospirit/metadata/projectbanners.js');

And this one is not working properly, when there's a page like: Wikipedia:FAC, is fine, but if I open an article page, they're not working, I needs to refresh (maybe again and again)to make it work, but even when they work, is like can not translate most of the categories, even some link could show properly:

• importScript('User:PortalandPortal2Rocks/translatelinks.js')

This tool could using wikidata, to show me which wikilinks already had article at Chinese wikipedia.

My English is not well, hope I express my problem properly.--Jarodalien (talk) 01:48, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

@Jarodalien: Remove all of the lines mentioning "User:Pyrospirit/metadata", go to Preferences → Gadgets, where under the heading "Appearance" you should find "Display an assessment of an article's quality in its page header (documentation)". Enable that, and save. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:23, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

@Redrose64:: Thank you Redrose64, but this one I already know and enabled, but the scripts I mention above had different functions, after open an article (actually almost any page in English wikipedia), when I click "Tools>Assess links" on navigation bar of the left (under "wikidata item", thoses scripts will add this "Assess links" to navigation bar), current page will show every wikilinked article's quality level by different color, just like the photo.--Jarodalien (talk) 09:32, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

@Jarodalien and Redrose64: I've created an updated version of the assesslinks.js script at User:Nihiltres/assesslinks.js. Replacing importScript('User:Liangent/User:Pyrospirit/metadata/assesslinks.js'); or importScript('User:Pyrospirit/metadata/assesslinks.js'); with importScript("User:Nihiltres/assesslinks.js"), and removing any call to older versions of the metadata gadget (it'll automatically load the gadget for you if it's not already loaded), should fix it. If it doesn't work, let me know how it's malfunctioning and I'll take a look. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 01:41, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Problem fixed! Thank you so much!!!--Jarodalien (talk) 07:34, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Articles like CST6CDT are totally broken. I have no idea how to update the database, having tried before. ~ NottNott let's talk! contrib 15:32, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I've fixed Template:Time zone/coord by adding the timezones which disappeared at the last tz refresh nearly 18 months ago - see User talk:Hytar#Broken TZ pages - but at least another 5 templates will need fixing for them to do a job they were never intended to do. They were intended for specific locations like Europe/Lisbon not whole zones (or variations of them).

Excluding the articles which were dabs or redlinks, the timezones which had disappeared were :

• CST6CDT is a variation on Central Time Zone
• EST5EDT is a variation on Eastern Standard Time
• MST7MDT is a variation on Mountain Standard Time
• PST8PDT is a variation on Pacific Time Zone

which do little more than transclude the tz templates (which haven't worked for them in over 18 months) and refer the reader to their parent timezones.

Rather than fixing at least another 5 templates (Template:Time zone/coordinates, Template:Time zone/country code, Template:Time zone/comments, Template:Time zone/utc offset, & Template:Time zone/utc dst offset), and having to re-fix them every time the tz database is refreshed, I'd recommend redirecting those 4 articles to the timezones to which they belong and will do so shortly if there are no objections. Bazj (talk) 16:50, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Done. Bazj (talk) 18:36, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I edit as an IP address, and as of a few days ago the CAPTCHA doesn't display any more when I try to add URLs, no matter how often I refresh the CAPTCHA or which browser I use (Chrome and Firefox) the image never shows up. I can't add any urls to wikipedia as references, I just get the little broken image box. If I look at the source, I can see that the image url changes every time I refresh. I haven't made significant changes to my browser installs since 'before' and 'after' it stopped working. I have experimented with turning off my ad blocking plugins and with different browsers. --110.20.234.69 (talk) 01:26, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Can you post the image url and try another computer? I see CAPTCHA's when I log out in both Firefox 40.0.3 and Google Chrome 45.0.2454.85 on Windows Vista. My tests gave the images at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Captcha/image&wpCaptchaId=1233632646 and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Captcha/image&wpCaptchaId=1231865122. Do you see images there? I still see them in all tested browsers. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:07, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, but I can't post any urls on wikipedia, not even to a service such as imageshack, etc. The portion of the url that I can see is src="/w/index.php?title=Spec...ge&wpCaptchaId=29266332" in the page source viewer. (as an example, I could provide more...) I am using Windows 8.1, Firefox 40.0.3, Chrome Version 45.0.2454.85 m. I can't see any images at the URLs you provided. I don't have access to another computer. Thanks for trying to help me. --110.20.234.69 (talk) 02:36, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

You could post the url in <nowiki>...</nowiki> or without https but it's not needed now. I assume it's https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Captcha/image&wpCaptchaId=29266332. I see a CAPTCHA image there. It's a png image but without .png in the url. Can you see https://en.wikipedia.org/static/images/wikimedia-button.png? Can you see a CAPTCHA at another domain like https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Captcha/image&wpCaptchaId=560643765? PrimeHunter (talk) 03:00, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

PrimeHunter, 110.20 cannot post URLs, about the busted captcha-imagefiles, because the busted captcha-filter prevents them from doing so.  :-)     It's not a case of needing nowiki, it's a case of not being able to fill in the captcha-bot's demands due to busted imagefile-viewing, methinks. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 11:33, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

nowiki prevents the url from producing a clickable link and then you don't need a captcha. In addition, you don't need a captcha to post an "external" link with a url to this site itself so it should also have been possible without nowiki. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:05, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah, okay. So I was wrong then, thanks for fixing me up. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 14:18, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I can't see any image at the first url (the 29266332 one), can't see the wikimedia-button, but can see the meta.wikimedia.org captcha. Odd. 110.20.234.69 (talk) 03:07, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Files in articles and other wikitext are from https://upload.wikimedia.org. If you can't see the wikimedia-button then maybe it isn't CAPTCHA specific but about interface images with url's at en.wikipedia.org like the reports at #Problem with icons and wiki editor and #Images not displaying (moved from Help desk to VP). Can you see two small images at the bottom right of this page? They should say "a WIKIMEDIA project" and "Powered by MediaWiki". Can you see the Wikipedia logo at https://en.wikipedia.org/static/images/project-logos/enwiki.png and the top left of this page? I uploaded your missing CAPTCHA to my own site at http://primerecords.dk/Wikipedia/CaptchaId29266332.png. Do you see it there? PrimeHunter (talk) 03:29, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I can see all of the images in your last example, but am still having problems viewing captchas. This gets weirder and weirder. 110.20.234.69 (talk) 03:44, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello 110.20 -- are you still unable to properly see https://en.wikipedia.org/static/images/wikimedia-button.png ("can't see the wikimedia-button")? I would work on solving that issue first, and then see if the captcha-problem is also solved. Do you have image-viewing turned off, presumably on a subdomain-by-subdomain basis using some plugin, for speeding up your browser? Or maybe one of your ad-blocking plugins has determined that en.wikipedia.org is a spam-site.  ;-)   Any proxy stuff, or upstream-ISP-related caching/blacklisting/pornfirewalling/etc? I also edit anon, and I can see the captcha-info from firefox 38, when I post URLs. Can you see images in wikipedia-articles, that are from commons.wikipedia.org , but not see images in articles that are from en.wikipedia.org? Elvis and United Parcel Service, here is the one from commons , https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Elvis_Presley_promoting_Jailhouse_Rock.jpg , and here is one from enWiki , https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/United_Parcel_Service_logo.svg -- are all four of those visible? 75.108.94.227 (talk) 11:33, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance! Can now see the wikimedia-button, but still can't post links. Don't have image viewing turned off, and have disabled my ad-blocking software for en.wikipedia.org. I don't know about proxying, or ISP related stuff - it's only happened in the last week or so. I was able to add links to Granny Weatherwax. I can see Elvis promoting Jailhouse Rock, and the UPS logo. Does this help at all? 110.20.234.69 (talk) 11:53, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, if you can see the button, and the Elvis, you should be able to see the CAPTCHA. You are obviously able to post here, on this talkpage. If you try to post a barelink, http://facebook.com , here on this page, you should get a CAPTCHA warning. Do you know how to use the browser's developer-console-tools? In firefox you hit F12, and a little window pops up, which shows the HTTP 200 traffic going on under the hood. When I try to submit with the barelink to faceebook, with the F12 window logging all network events to the dev-console, I see POST followed by seven GET requests, all of them giving me back "HTTP 200 OK" including the fourth one, which is https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Captcha/image&wpCaptchaId=890835297 that loads the CAPTCH image dynamically (and which I can see in a separate tab when I paste the URL there as well as in the save-button-tab). Actually, the 2nd http get request was 304 Not Modified, aka cached locally. Are you seeing similar type of HTTP traffic, when you attempt to post http://facebook.com to this conversation-thread as a barelink? 75.108.94.227 (talk) 14:18, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

So in my post immediately above, I saw the first captcha-image 890whatever, and saw it in another tab. I made some more edits to my comment, clicked preview again, and got a second captch-image, which I responded to so as to click save. *After* clicking save above, I am still able to see the first 890whatever imagefile, but the second 132whatever imagefile, which I actually responded to by typing the visible text, no longer works now that I've clicked save on my comment up above. When visiting 890whatever at this point, I can see it, but when visiting 132whatever at this point, I get "HTTP 400 Bad Request" in the F12 dev-console, and printed "Request Error: Requested bogus captcha image" in the body-area. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 14:24, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Once a captcha image is successfully responded to, it is no longer valid. This is to prevent someone from somehow reusing a solved captcha to bypass the protection. Anomie⚔ 14:39, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Has anybody tweaked that code recently? What kind of timeouts are we talking about? Maybe the reason that I can see the captcha-images, and 110.20 cannot, is because my pingtimes are better, being physically nearer to the enWiki servers? 75.108.94.227 (talk) 15:23, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

It looks like, this isn't only en.wiki problem. One IP user reported this also in Latvian Wikipedia. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 14:25, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

So is it related to physical location? I'm in the lower 48, whereas 110.20 is trying to post to enWiki from Australia. Where was the editor on the Latvian wikipedia geolocated? 75.108.94.227 (talk) 14:32, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

http://facebook.com Test#3. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 15:25, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Uh, that time I didn't have to go through captcha, at all. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 15:26, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

The IP editor is in Latvia. BTW, he has Win 7 and Firefox, if it's interesting to anybody. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 15:51, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

So, I'm not alone, then? :D http://facebook.com 110.20.234.69 (talk) 20:56, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Ok, that was bizarre, no captcha at all - it just let me post a url onto this page without any bar. Trying again with a news link formatted in ^[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.20.234.69 (talk) 20:59, 9 September 2015

I think I know why we can post the facebook link - as IP editors, we're allowed to move around existing links within an article. Because it was 'already there' when we tried to post it, we were allowed to reproduce it. A novel link would trigger a captcha. 110.20.234.69 (talk) 22:07, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

• Same problem, the captcha image won't load. Is anyone working on this issue? --89.0.239.42 (talk) 22:53, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Just to inform: I have same problem with captcha at swedish wiki (haven't tried here) and then I can't see e.g. wikipedia logo either, neither here nor at any other wiki. Going to ask about this at my local fi.wiki as well.87.93.114.115 (talk) 13:55, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi again. After a long discussion at fi.wiki we found out that the problem is Avast antivirus. See this: https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=174202.15 and this (the comment by Stryn at the bottom of the page): https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T112110. 188.67.212.90 (talk) 19:08, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for this! It's fixed now! --110.20.234.69 (talk) 22:20, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Has anyone having issues with GIFs showing link instead of image? For example, I was at ALM Antillean Airlines and the airline logo is showing the link rather than the image. I'm on Firefox and it's only the only browser with this problem (I tried in IE and Chrome, both are fine). OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 03:53, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

This has come up before, it usually means that the image was moved at some point and the page with the error still points to the old name of the image - a redirect. In this case, the article links to File:ALM logo.gif which is a redir to File:ALM Antillean Airlines (logo).gif, it was moved at 18:55, 8 March 2014 so I would have expected any problem to have shown up before now. Redirected images should work transparently, and often they do, but sometimes they don't. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:56, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

On that page just now, using Firefox 38.2.0 , ALM Antillean Airlines has a properly-visible-logo for me being displayed in the infobox. That properly-visible-logo can be clicked, and is hyperlinked to here. If that's not what you see, what version of firefox (instructions here) is giving you problems, User:OhanaUnited, and what operating system version are you running? 75.108.94.227 (talk) 11:09, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm using Firefox 40.0.3. In the box, it's showing the redirected path link but not the image. When I click on it to go to the file page, the file page is still showing the file name and not the image itself. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 16:17, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

If you have Avast antivirus then see this: https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=174202.15 and this (the comment by Stryn at the bottom of the page): https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T112110. I had varoius problems seeing images and adding scanning exception to avast solved them all. 188.67.212.90 (talk) 19:11, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. That indeed fixed it. Never thought of anti-virus being the culprit. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 02:55, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Recently, I had Windows 10 installed. Then I found WikEd wasn't working in Chrome (I saw the recent discussion). I changed to Firefox, and now WikEd works, but the ping from my talk page doesn't. Is there anything I can do to fix that? Corinne (talk) 14:37, 10 September 2015 (UTC) It appears that this problem has resolved itself. Corinne (talk) 15:17, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

How do I combine categories? such as:

Category:American male film actors<br>
Category:American film actors

Category:American female film actors<br>
Category:American film actresses

Category:Gay actors<br>
Category:LGBT actors

Checkingfax (talk) 21:53, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Links to the mentioned categories:

Category:American male film actors – a subcategory of:

Category:American film actors

Category:American female film actors – a {{category redirect}} to:

Category:American film actresses

Category:Gay actors – a subsubcategory of:

Category:LGBT actors

What do you mean by "combine"? PrimeHunter (talk) 22:21, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Merge them for redundancy. Checkingfax (talk) 22:42, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

File a request at WP:CFM. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:32, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

First you discuss it somewhere, maybe WP:CfD Christian75 (talk) 06:44, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@Christian75: WP:CFM is WP:CfD. I used M not D because what Checkingfax is asking for is a merge, not an outright deletion. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:49, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@Redrose64: Ok, point taken :-). I didnt know WP:CfM was a redirect to CfD. Btw. the D stands for discussion. Christian75 (talk) 10:12, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I mentioned it up above, but ever since the change was made where I now have separate "alerts" and "messages" buttons, I can no longer access "hot cat" or link to other wiki language pages. I cannot go to commons, nor any other wiki formats, i.e. no MediaWiki, Wikidata, Meta-Wiki, etc. I signed out and back in to no avail. At one point, it popped up and told me I needed to sign in to Meta-Wiki, which I did and then the site crashed. Surely I am not the only person this is happening to. And please don't give me a technical answer, I will not understand it. I need a step by step of what to do to fix it. Thanks! SusunW (talk) 01:28, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Here is a clue: Meta-wiki en español only has the bell icon. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 01:40, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

As I said, I am not technically inclined. I went to my file on es.wikipedia and I still cannot link it to the English or Portuguese version. I still cannot access any other wiki platform. And when I am on it, it has both icons. SusunW (talk) 01:52, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I can't go on Commons either. This is all kinds of messed up. Manxruler (talk) 02:32, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I see a few sections up that you both have Avast so I guess that's the problem. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:03, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I had tried the Avast fix earlier and it didn't fix it. So, I signed out of Wikipedia *again*, cleared the cash *again*, redid the steps to put it back on https scan, saved and then undid it again. Signed back in and now it works. Good grief. But, I seem to have all functionality back. Thanks PrimeHunter. Perseverance pays off. SusunW (talk) 03:25, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I did that too (the Wikipedia exception at Avast), and now I've got Commons back and (spoke too soon) can see images again. One exception, though, the Wikipedia logo on the top left is still gone. Anyone else seeing that? Manxruler (talk) 11:10, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Removing HTTPS scanning worked. All's well. Manxruler (talk) 13:31, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

When creating a book, is it possible to isolate a single section of a page for book creation? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.99.20.102 (talk) 03:08, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

(This was originally asked at WP:HELPDESK.) Hello, I don't understand your question. Are you creating a paperback book? Are you trying to put a single section of a wikipedia article into your paperback book? Please give us more details. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 16:22, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

174.99.20.102 is asking about Wikipedia:Books. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:24, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Looks like what they are attempting to do, is not directly supported. Here is the official place for questions. Help:Books/Feedback However, there are complaints there which nobody seems to be answering. Apparently the project is somehow related to the Germany company PediaPress, which serendipitously I ran across earlier this year. There is an #pediapress ^connect live-help-chat, too.

    Anyways, 174.99, here is the deal -- if you are trying to use the WP:Books tool to create-a-book, there is no explicit support for just adding a section of a wikipedia-article. However, you can use the following workaround (I believe -- did not actually test these steps work). First, find the article that you want, and the section that you want. I'll assume your book is about Jet Li, and you want to add just the Jet_Li#Taiji_Zen section to your wiki-book. The workaround is like this:

• in one browser-tab, open up Jet_Li#Taiji_Zen.
• In another browser-tab, create an empty blank subpage in your userspace, such as User_talk:174.99.20.102/Jet_Li_Taiji.
• Click 'edit' next to the Taiji_Zen section in tab#1. Select the sentences with your mouse, and hit ctrl+c to copy the wiki-text.
• Over in tab#2, paste the wiki-text into the blank empty userspace page with ctrl+v
• in the edit-summary of tab#2, specify that "this information was copied from [[Jet_Li#Taiji_Zen]] under the [[CC-BY-SA]] license".
• That last bit is important, to satisfy copyright-infringement-laws and the wikipedia terms-of-use! Finally, click 'save'.

With the steps above, you will have just created a new page, which *only* contains the wiki-text you were after, in this example we used a copy of the Jet_Li#Taiji_Zen section, but you can repeat this process with as many article-sections as you wish. Once you do that, navigate to the user-sub-page you just created, and add that custom-built-temporary page into your wiki-book. (You can adjust the wiki-book-chapter-subtitle as explained here.) Make sense?

    If this was confusing, please feel free to ask further questions here (or at the help-links above or at the WP:TEAHOUSE). Sorry that the feature you want isn't available by default, it seems like it would be a nice thing to have. Maybe the workaround will be good enough, if you don't have too many article-sections you are trying to capture in this fashion. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 18:59, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I understood all of the steps, and after trying it out on the Jet Li example I can see that it works decently enough. Thank you! 174.99.20.102 (talk) 01:49, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

The number of articles in the cleanup categories by month has greatly decreased. I found a page (Centre for Environment Education) that has {{Cleanup|date=September 2008}} on it and the template message isn't visible and doesn't seem to be in the cleanup categories. Is this known about? Intentional? RJFJR (talk) 13:58, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

The reason it isn't functional in that article is because the date set is prior to July 2012. I do not know the specific background, but in all likelihood this was done to reduce backlog due to overtagging.--Anders Feder (talk) 14:19, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Also known as "hide the problem and it will go away". All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:10, 11 September 2015 (UTC).

Seems to have been a now-reverted edit to the template. I would hazard that normal service will be resumed, subject to the WP:Job queue. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:14, 11 September 2015 (UTC).

Judging by two recent edit/self-revert pairs in {{cleanup}}, it appears that CFCF (talk · contribs) has been making tests in the live version, rather than its sandbox. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:44, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

You are quite the astute observer. Alakzi (talk) 22:52, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Redrose64 – I did not make tests in templace space – rather my tests to the sandbox weren't exhaustive. I didn't realize the code was so complex it took into account the date the box was added. Have reviewed it properly this time. -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 11:07, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Had missed the excellent Template:Cleanup/testcases that would have helped me avoid this.-- CFCF 🍌 (email) 11:30, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

It's mostly covered at WP:TESTCASES. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:51, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I tried working through this problem on IRC with ShakespeareFan00, but I could come to a fix with him. To the right you can see a screen cap of my problem. I can't get most images to load, they either show up as white blocks with a gray border or as a blue link to their file page, and won't even show there. What's going on? TrueCRaysball | ^#RaysUp 20:20, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

What browser? What do you see in its developer tools about network requests? Max Semenik (talk) 21:14, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm guessing TrueCRaysball is another one of the users with the Avast problem discussed several times on this page now. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:47, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm not running avast, and I saw the problem in the screenshot (no logo visible just a text-bit), yesterday. I assumed it was a syntax-bug, since I didn't see the |image= param listed in the {{Stanley Cup Finals}} helpdocs. I messed around with trying to change the image-retrieval-wiki-syntax, and clicked preview a few times, but go nowhere. So I never clicked save, and I never figured out why the image wasn't showing up, but assumed it was something to do with the recent changeover from commons to enWiki image-hosting on August 31st (logo is trademarked). Turns out I was wrong: the logo-image shows up *fine* for me today. Nobody has edited the page in question. I've never visited the page before, so it cannot be caching issues local to my PC, that I can imagine. And as mentioned, I'm not running avast, so that can also be ruled out. Also not running any weird plugins. I think there was a backend problem, and then either somebody fixed the back-end problem, or maybe the image-serving-task slash page-generation-task rotated to another vserver? 75.108.94.227 (talk) 14:14, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, TheDJ, I do use Avast. However. I disabled Avast and it still wouldn't show up. TrueCRaysball | ^#RaysUp 18:35, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

• I posted about this issue almost three weeks ago and images are still being erratic. It has nothing to do with Avast, I am running Ubuntu 15.04 and the issue occurs on both Firefox and Chrome. ^{My name is}not^dave (talk/contribs) 14:32, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

The row of editing buttons above the editing area (above were I enter these letters) has changed. Both the wikilink button and the italics button is gone. Why? In what way is this an improvement?

Now I have to go all the way down to Wiki markup to find the relevant button, which frustrates me. Manxruler (talk) 23:35, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

And now I find that Wiki markup doesn't even have an italics button. And the buttons are back here while I edit this entry, but not over where I originally wanted to edit. What is this? Manxruler (talk) 23:38, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

All the buttons are there for me but this page currently has many reports from users who don't see various interface images which have url's at en.wikipedia.org and not at upload.wikimedia.org where uploaded files are stored. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:44, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Do you have Avast Antivirus? That appears to be the cause of many other reports. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:49, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I have Avast. Right now the buttons are back, but on the left of the "Bold text" button the words "Mat formula (LaTeX)" have appeared. Strange, very strange indeed. Manxruler (talk) 23:53, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

The buttons seem to come and go now, without any regularity. I guess I'll see if the problem's resolved itself tomorrow. Manxruler (talk) 01:16, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I have this problem too. No buttons are showing in the markup area. And yes I have Avast. SusunW (talk) 02:57, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

These buttons are appearing and disappearing at random for me. I have no anti-virus, and I'm on a Macintosh. It is very strange and very annoying. RGloucester — ☎ 15:21, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Is it possible to search in Wikipedia-logs with wildcard expressions somehow - assuming I want to search for all deleted pages that include "King" in the title (just a completely coincidental example ...)? Or is there an external tool for such a feature? GermanJoe (talk) 15:53, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Recently there was some messiness in the creation of Into the River. The root cause of the problem was that someone created an article in Draft: namespace and that wasn't found by another editor who created a similarly named article in the article namespace. The root cause of that appears to have been that Draft articles don't appear in the default site search. Is this something that could potentially be fixed? Stuartyeates (talk) 20:16, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm guessing this helps a very small percentage of searchers, but would confuse the other 99% who might not understand that they're getting a draft. However, I understand the problem; maybe the article creation process could conduct this search on your behalf if you try to create a page? "It looks like a draft for this article already exists" or something? Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 20:23, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

That has been discussed MediaWiki talk:Newarticletext#Draft Namespace and Wikipedia talk:Drafts/Archive 4#Editnotice. There was support but no action. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:33, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Editnotices, such as Template:Editnotices/Page/Wikipedia:Village pump (technical), say "Edit", or "Edit source" if you have VisualEditor enabled, even though the page cannot be edited. Editnotices should say "View source", as well as any page viewed by a blocked user, except the user talk page if that can be edited by the blocked user. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 22:11, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Coincidentally, I recently found that cascade-protected pages use "Edit" instead of "View source", and found this very old VPT thread saying it is "due to performance reasons". Maybe the reasons for using "Edit" in case of blacklisted titles (which editnotices are) and blocks are similar. SiBr₄ (talk) 22:26, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes it's the same reason. If protection is not 'with' the page, then it is very difficult and expensive to communicate that information to a page view. It would break/complicate the cache ability of such a page. On Edit view, pages are never cached, so there it's not a problem. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 07:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

16:18, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Does anybody know how to use various symbols and scripts as self.args. i.e. args. in Lua? For example, if I want to use self.args.ћирилица (cyrillic script) I get redirected to Debug console and don't know what to do... I guess there're some extra signs before and after the text self.args.он отхер сцрипт ор витх вариоус сумболс. --Obsuser (talk) 00:57, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Obsuser: Use self.args['ћирилица']. You can only use the dot syntax with names that only consist of a-z, A-Z, 0-9, and _, and that don't start with a number. If you try to use it with any other string, it's a syntax error. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 02:16, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mr. Stradivarius: Thank you! --Obsuser (talk) 02:28, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mr. Stradivarius: Actually, it's not working. I get Script error: Lua mistake at line --: unexpected symbol near '['. I have also problem with self:renderPerЋИРИЛИЦА(builder, 'Ћирилица', 'ћирилица'). Any way to solve these? --Obsuser (talk) 02:40, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Obsuser: self:renderPerЋИРИЛИЦА(builder, 'Ћирилица', 'ћирилица') is another syntax error. You need to write self['renderPerЋИРИЛИЦА'](self, builder, 'Ћирилица', 'ћирилица') (see here for an explanation of how the colon operator works). As for the other error, I think I will need to see your script. Can I have a link? — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 03:04, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mr. Stradivarius: Here. You can compare English version and the one from link to see what I've changed (you can check differences here). I need cyrillic script for all of those words (Strana, strane, datum, lokacija, akcija etc.) so they can be used as parameters in the template. You can change module on .sr project to see if it is working (if you want) because with self.args['ћирилица'] style I get error. Thank you! --Obsuser (talk) 03:53, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Obsuser: Hmm, it looks like the best way of doing that would be to use the argument translation feature in Module:Arguments. @Jackmcbarn: I see that argument translation isn't documented at Module:Arguments/doc - is there a particular reason for this, or is it ok to encourage people to use it? — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 04:30, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mr. Stradivarius: So what should I do now to make my module working with cyrillic script? --Obsuser (talk) 23:10, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mr. Stradivarius: It works differently than the getArgs in Gerrit will, so I don't want to encourage use of the old way. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:17, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

How can I use cyrillic now? There must be some detour...Obsuser (talk) 20:23, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

@Obsuser: You can look at how de:Modul:Vorlage:Wertungsspiegel Computerspiel (a translation of Module:Video game reviews) does it, and just go along with it. (Just be prepared to have to do some rewriting when getArgs comes out.) Jackmcbarn (talk) 17:06, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

 Done Thank you all. I managed to solve the problem by proper usage of self.args['ћирилица'] and self['renderPerЋИРИЛИЦА'](self, builder, 'Ћирилица', 'ћирилица'), after all. It’s working now with cyrillic parameters’ names, and I didn’t have to use complicated translations.--Obsuser (talk) 22:03, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Does anybody know why is Wikipedia on my PC (when I use Chrome or Firefox) looking like this and this and this? When I use Internet Explorer everything is just fine... Problem emerged after 1st or 2nd of September, 2015 and is also present on Facebook (many images are missing there too). I updated everything; still, nothing works. Maybe (probably not) the problem is about NPAPI removal, but why is then Firefox experiencing same issues? --Obsuser (talk) 14:19, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

• @Obsuser: I can only speak for Chrome but on the address bar all the way to the right next to the favorite star, does anything else show up when you try to load the page? Error messages in Chrome are displayed with little symbols next to the star. --Stabila711 (talk) 14:42, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

• @Obsuser: Do you have an extension common to both Chrome and Firefox? An adblocker perhaps? Browser versions and OS details please. - 185.108.128.19 (talk) 15:05, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

• @Stabila711: Nothing shows up...
• @185.108.128.19: Only extension that is common to both Chrome and Firefox is Avast Online Security (which is NOT enabled). I used to have the Adblocker in Chrome for about a year, but have uninstalled it before two or three days to make sure it won’t make any problems. Browser versions are all up-to-date (Chrome: 45.0.2454.85 m; Firefox: updated to latest version). [I also used to have crashes of Flash player in Chrome, and crashes of screen/display/monitor (after five or ten minutes of using of Chrome, Windows theme would have changed (from blue to lighter blue) and I would have get message The exception breakpoint. A breakpoint has been reached. /with Chrome.exe, not Robocraft.exe/; screen would have disappeared and get black; it would have crashed like this few times and then stopped crashing with message Shockwave player has crashed. in Chrome and changing of resolution of my monitor to lowest possible; however, this is NOT case right now after I updated all drivers so I just mentioned this in case and actually don’t need help with it but only with missing images).] OS: Windows 7 Enterprise 32-bit --Obsuser (talk) 15:39, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

@Obsuser: Just to make sure, have you tried clearing your browser caches and checking again? Next step would be to use Safe Mode in FF. 185.108.128.19 (talk) 15:55, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

• @185.108.128.19: Yes, nothing works. I assume problems are caused by some software conflicting with each other or recent updates of Mediawiki and/or Chrome/Firefox/system... Weird thing is that other pages display properly but only Wikipedia encounter errors (Facebook is now OK). Can anybody help? --Obsuser (talk) 03:01, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

The problem is Avast antivirus itself. See this: https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=174202.15 and this (the comment by Stryn at the bottom of the page): https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T112110 I had same problem but adding scanning exception to avast settings solved it. 188.67.212.90 (talk) 19:03, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

@Obsuser: I recommend posting this problem at the village pump. They are more familiar with technical issues regarding Wikipedia and may be able to help you better (and quicker). Also, they can file a bug report if necessary. --Stabila711 (talk) 20:26, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

 Done Problem is resolved now. Everything works as it should. --Obsuser (talk) 22:04, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Am I the only one? NorthernThunder (talk) 19:54, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

No, you are not. Ive had the same problem for days and there's some talk about it a little higher on this page and some irc-discussions too. I don't know the solution but Internet Explorer shows the logo for me, firefox and chrome don't. 188.67.212.90 (talk) 16:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

My chrome hasn't had any problems at all. Try purging the cache.—^cyberpower_{Chat:Limited Access} 17:22, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi NorthernThunder. If you have avast antivirus then the problem is solved. We had a long discussion about this at fi.wiki and one of our admins summarized the findings thus:

"We found out that the problem seems to be Avast! antivirus program. At https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=174202.15 had instructions to //disable HTTPS scanning (avastUI > Settings > Active Protection > Web Shield > Customize - disable HTTPS scanning)// or alternatively add an exception for not scanning https://*.wikipedia.org/* and such sites. It was reported on fiwiki that those instructions did help to solve the problem."

I had tried everything, clearing cache etc... but it was only the adding of the aforementioned scanning exception to avast that solved the problem. 188.67.212.90 (talk) 18:53, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

 Done I think it’s resolved now. --Obsuser (talk) 22:05, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

See: List of Presidents of the United States#Timeline. If you're trying to change it to include the very first two presidents, it said

- Period attribute 'from' invalid. Specify year >= 1800.

--fireattack (talk) 08:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Don't know why, but if dates and months aren't important, you can try only years. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 09:26, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

The main page for <timeline>...</timeline> is mw:Extension:EasyTimeline, and there's a directly-related bug at phab:T59634. In this case, I suspect that months are important; and indeed, also days - consider William Henry Harrison. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:58, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

mw:Extension talk:EasyTimeline/syntax#Answer to remarks on sv:Användardiskussion:Den fjättrade ankan says the below. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:56, 14 September 2015 (UTC)]]

• It would be nice to have DateFormat = dd/mm/yyyy work from at least 1500, not only from 1800.

Den fjättrade ankan 01:36, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

> I am afraid this is not possible. Ploticus uses an internal date/time format in which 01/01/1800 is zero. Many programming languages have a similar internal representation. Of course this could have been implemented otherwise, but I assume in the seven years Ploticus exists noone used it for historical timelines, it is often used for scientific plots. Maybe I can ask Steve Grubb to look at, but even if he wants to modify this it will not be soon, new releases are some half year apart. Erik Zachte 03:46, Jun 21, 2004 (UTC)

What we really need is to get rid of the "EasyTimeline" extension. It's a really terrible old bit of software - it's implemented as a massive Perl script with next to no comments or documentation, making it almost impossible to modify - and it uses the ancient "Ploticus" graphics generator, which is apparently not very good at vector graphics... (see phab:T29156) — This, that and the other (talk) 12:32, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

The modern analog is Graph. It uses a different syntax though, so either timelines need to be converted to Vega format, or a plugin could be written to consume the old format in Graph (in Node.js). Max Semenik (talk) 08:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

@Fireattack, Edgars2007, Redrose64, PrimeHunter, and This, that and the other: Yeah, EasyTimeline was nice enough as a toy but it's not really that useful given its huge limitations; you absolutely have my moral support to remove its use everywhere on wiki. Long-term I suspect once it's no longer needed we should disable it so it doesn't get additional uses added. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 18:03, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

The article in es:WP es:Éxodo del Mariel shows the link to the English article Mariel boatlift. But the English one doesn't show any other language, despite the Spanish article has 10 links. Can some Technic-Guru repair the links?. --Keysanger (talk) 18:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Keysanger: I see ten on the English article: العربية; Azərbaycanca; Deutsch; Español; Euskara; Français; Italiano; Norsk bokmål; Português; Svenska. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:38, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Redrose64: Not in my browser File:Boatlift.png. --Keysanger (talk) 19:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Redrose64: Now is it there!. Meanwhile I started the Firefox browser. --Keysanger (talk) 20:22, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like a cache issue.--Anders Feder (talk) 20:31, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Also have seen this sometimes somewhere. Even for those articles, which have been connected long time ago. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 21:34, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello. Please take a look at The Muppet Show#References 2. I've never seen that many cite errors before. I did some searching through the edit history but couldn't find when things went awry. I am heading out the door for an appointment so I wont be able to fix it and I thought I would turn to the people who watch this board for help. Thanks for your time. MarnetteD|Talk 17:04, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

This edit made way back in 2012 transcludes some content from a different article (List of The Muppet Show Muppets). That content now includes a list of references which are no longer used (List of The Muppet Show Muppets is full of cite errors too).--Anders Feder (talk) 17:22, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Those errors start from this edit. It looks like someone is expanding the article who didn't finish their work. I'm trying to rescue it at the moment. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 18:01, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Fixed at List of The Muppet Show Muppets. The cite errors at The Muppet Show are unrelated, but I'm working on them now. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 18:33, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Fixed now at The Muppet Show as well. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 18:55, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

My thanks to you both for your efforts in fixing this. MarnetteD|Talk 21:08, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Do we have any Javascript coders who would be willing to make some improvements to Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:53, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Popups are an outright intimidating project. It might be an interesting challenge, but … aren't Hovercards planned to take over most of their functionality? {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 03:34, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@Nihiltres: Not for the foreseeable future; and not, AFAICT, as tools for editors, but for readers, who have different needs. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:41, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Personally, rather than making improvements to Popups, I would write a new extension mimicking its functionality but based on the Hovercards code. What improvements are you interested in, anyway? — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 11:01, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I wonder if it'd be feasible to simply use Hovercards, but overwrite its renderer and some settings with "Popups 2.0" code. The catch is that that approach might become very hackish very quickly, depending on Hovercards' quirks, and it risks being fragile to Hovercards updates. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 16:37, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

@Mr. Stradivarius: In the short term, the addition of links to Wikidata items and template sandboxes and testcases. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:11, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Please also provide your opinions of the change at the signpost poll here as well 02:40, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

There are now two, each has a little symbol in black, which is very difficult to see against the red background. This change was in the last 25 minutes. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:15, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

It became live on Wikidata yesterday already I think. Whatever, IDONTLIKEIT! Jared Preston (talk) 19:19, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict): I'll probably be in the minority on this one, but I actually like this change. It was kind of a pain having the 2-in-1 alert/message indicator. Having one for each works better. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:20, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

+1. C'mon people, let's try and embrace a smidgeon of change perhaps? -- Fuzheado | Talk 20:16, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

My first reaction is that I don't like it. My stronger reaction is that such things shoud not be changed without a prominent announcement. The first might change with time, the second won't. DES ^(talk) 19:24, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

+1. Also, for me it's changing size midway through page load, and the end result is absolutely huge (with the two indicators taking up more space than my username and talk combined). Is there a way to restore the old version, even if only on an individual level? Nikkimaria (talk) 19:27, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

There's a red background? On both IE and Firefox, I get the symbols in white against a rather wide faded grayed out background. That's with Modern skin, my normal one. Cologne and Vector skin have the white against faded gray, but the background is more concise, not so much spread out. With Mono, it's the black symbols against the grayed out background, which is easier to see than the one on Modern skin. Maybe it's just my vision, but I find white against grayed out harder to see than the old style. — Maile (talk) 19:29, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

It's red if the count is non-zero. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:38, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

They seem to be bored again. So why not keep playing around some more and fill up my huge and still empty looking widescreen monitor? And when you're done I'll buy an even bigger one for you to keep messing around further.--TMCk (talk) 19:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I actually love it as it is less confusing and I will not be as likely to accidentally miss an alert but I agree with DES in the fact that there should have been a notice. Tortle (talk) 19:42, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

For the advance notice you are complaining that wasn't made because you have failed to read it, see #Tech News: 2015-37 above.--Anders Feder (talk) 19:49, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't call that prominent. DES ^(talk) 23:53, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not sure what issue you're having. Is it that the two icons take up more space now? Legoktm (talk) 21:24, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

+1 - The notifications now look bloody tiny on my laptop!, Sorry to moan but I don't see what was wrong with the previous one, As the saying goes - Don't fix what isn't broken. –Davey2010^Talk 19:46, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

@Davey2010: I mean, they're clearly larger now. Look at the image below. As for the rest of your statement ... if we held to that principle, Wikipedia would still look like this. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 20:41, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah so my eyes are playing tricks on me! , That is true to a point but at the end of the day IMHO there was no need to change it, The previous worked fine (well for me anyway). –Davey2010^Talk 20:49, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

They're very distracting. How do I change it back? Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 19:48, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

There's a bug about them slightly flashing that is being worked on, but are there other things you find distracting? Legoktm (talk) 21:24, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

If I may comment on the bug report - on my system, the size is changing by approximately 50%, which I wouldn't call "slight". But I'm sure it'll be fixed soon. Tevildo (talk) 08:10, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

This change looks awful if you're running a font with text figures like Georgia (pictured). When you have no notifications, the zero is squished to the bottom of the grey field. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 19:49, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

There is little point in having both a talk page link and a notification button for messages. These should be merged somehow. DrKiernan (talk) 19:50, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes – the 'messages' one should link to your Talk page directly, not to "Notifications". As for the change, I reserve judgement until I see how they fully work (if somebody's bored, feel free to 'ping' me or leave a message on my Talk page, so I can see how the new system works when "activated"...). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:05, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

OK, I do like that the new messages notification icon now shows up in "blue" rather than "red". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:12, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Didn't we recently have a consensus for keeping notification colours red? I thought it should be a different colour personally, but I thought the consensus was quite clear in favour of red notifications. Sam Walton (talk) 21:13, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

My interpretation of that discussion was less that "there was a consensus for keeping red" than that "there was no consensus for a change away from red". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:52, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Gah! So the "alerts" icon still highlights to red when "live" with new alerts – I still really think that it should turn green when letting you know about a "Thank". IMO, it should only be red when telling you about a revert. Oh well, maybe the coding folks can work on adding "color coding" functionality next! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:26, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I like having the new drop-down list of talk page messages — with the old system, whenever anyone added to an old conversation, it was always annoyingly complicated to find where their change was. However, with my rendering preferences (monobook etc) there's a big UI glitch: at the bottom of the drop-down window, I see in huge text "< All Notifications * Prefere". That is, the links at the bottom are in such a big font that they overflow the window and I can only see half of the preferences link. Why is there a preferences link there at all, anyway, when I can get to it more directly from the preferences link in the top menu bar? —David Eppstein (talk) 20:23, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

We fixed the preferences link already, but it didn't get deployed (). I'll do that asap. There has always been a Preferences link there though (it might have gotten a little bit bigger?). Legoktm (talk) 20:48, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Like - I've been using the dual notifications/message buttons on Wikidata and like it. Boy, if only all the effort used to whine about this UI feature were spent on more useful endeavors... -- Fuzheado | Talk 20:09, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't really care that it changed, but I do care that it made my "hot cat" option and my linking ability to languages on other pages go away. Not sure if I need to make this another topic, as it all happened simultaneous to this change as far as I can tell. SusunW (talk) 20:24, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't know if it's related, but around the same time this happened I started having an issue with popups. I'm forced to reload the page to get it to work - it won't load the first time. Also, the collapsible notice boxes on editing pages, like the one for the admin templates we use to respond to RFPP requests, aren't collapsing anymore unless I do that reload. Very annoying. KrakatoaKatie 20:37, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

@KrakatoaKatie: That's more likely because of the fact that you don't have valid JS in your KrakatoaKatie/common.js. And what's in your vector.js, also looks like an ancient mess. Try blanking all of that and building it from scratch... And you should make use of Gadgets if they are available. Especially for Twinkle and popups for instance. If all that wasn't hindering you before, than it was a bit of a miracle —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 20:46, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

@TheDJ: I use Monobook, but I've been meaning to clean up the JS for a while. Thanks for the help! :-) KrakatoaKatie 21:10, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I have no strong feelings one way or the other. Sam Walton (talk) 20:50, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Not really a complaint (they're still better than the old WP:OBOD), but (a) I can't think I'm alone in believing that the standard "Beware of the Leopard" notifications for this sort of thing could be improved - considering the excessive obtrusiveness of the fundraising/committee elections/meetups notices, there must be potential for finding a middle ground, and (b) is it possible to at least keep the size of the boxes constant? At the moment, they start off about as wide as the "sandbox" link, then shrink to the size of the "talk" link when the bell and callout images are loaded. Tevildo (talk) 21:22, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

• I haven't got a problem with the new format, but both times tonight when I've clicked on the alerts to zero them, a minute or so later I'm being told I have 1 alert, when I haven't actually got anything new. It's just told me I have 1 alert, but when I clicked on it the last entry was 1 day old. This is presumably a bug. Black Kite (talk) 00:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
• Help? Currently I have one alert displaying, but nothing happens when I click on it. Perhaps it is a problem with my browser? I am able to access the alert from my mobile phone. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:27, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Can we please have an option to turn this off? This adds no functionality, is ugly as hell, and amounts to "someone on the technical team was clearly bored". If they want to keep it as the default, then I guess whatever floats your boat, but I would really like to be able to turn off those unnecessarily gigantic buttons when the previous alerts were far better. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:45, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Or, at the very least, fix the colour scheme? The two garish slabs of grey in my usual blue interface is the ugliest bit: the splitting up into "messages" and "notifications" is unobjectionable if they hadn't made it so bloody ugly. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:49, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, I'm indifferent about the idea but did they have to make the implementation so damn ugly and with little icons that make us look even more like a social media site, which we're not. (Don't have the grey on blue problem but it's damn ugly). I see they still haven't learnt to run these thing by users BEFORE implementation - one of the main reasons I've largely become inactive as an editor. Dpmuk (talk) 04:55, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

If we left it to the community here, we'd never change a thing and we'd be a relic of 2008 with a few changes around the edges, we object to everything no matter how minor and the last thing I'd want is to leave any form of progress for the site in the hands of a bunch of ossified lumps who'd never change a thing. tutterMouse (talk) 08:23, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I dont like the new change and Im going to try to revert it to something I like using CSS. It seems to be more complex than last time, though; just typing colors in CSS doesnt work because there seems to be also a transparency involved ... i.e. the colors I type dont actually appear. —Soap— 05:38, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@Soap: Reverting the appearance would mean combining what is now two separate features, and you can't use CSS to do that. It might be possible in JavaScript, but I wouldn't know how. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:41, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Like Its a good change. Makes sense. Seddon ^talk 09:13, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Meh. Splitting it in two is a reasonable choice. Having a single notification location was also a reasonable choice. Personally, I don't really care so much. However, when pages load it does seem like the notifications flicker slightly. I assume this means that part of the notification space is being changed by javascript during load. It would be good to pin this down so there is no unnecessary flicker, especially for cases where there are no new messages (which I assume is true for most people, most of the time). Dragons flight (talk) 10:00, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@Dragons flight: I see the flicker too, but I put it down to the same problem as #Interface delay. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

• Don't like "Embrace change"? When there are changes worthy of embracing, I will. Change for the sake of it, no. This looks tacky, and I can't see the need for it. Is one being regarded as less important than the other? "Someone's thanked you, but you needn't bother looking who it was" or "You've been mentioned somewhere, but what the heck"? Will it save time? No. If you get both a message and an alert, you've got to use two drop-downs instead of one. If you've only got the one sort, you're still only clicking one anyway so it's irrelevant. Peridon (talk) 13:01, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

In the source I see:

<li id="pt-notifications-alert">
<a href="/wiki/Special:Notifications" class="mw-echo-notifications-badge oo-ui-image-invert oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-bell" title="Your alerts">0</a>
</li>
<li id="pt-notifications-message">
<a href="/wiki/Special:Notifications" class="mw-echo-notifications-badge oo-ui-image-invert oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-speechBubble" title="Your messages">0</a>
</li>

After javascript runs, it looks like:

<li id="pt-notifications-alert"><div class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-primary oo-ui-buttonWidget oo-ui-popupButtonWidget oo-ui-iconElement mw-echo-ui-notificationBadgeButtonPopupWidget mw-echo-ui-notificationBadgeButtonPopupWidget-alert" aria-disabled="false" aria-haspopup="true"><a class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button" role="button" title="Your alerts" tabindex="0" aria-disabled="false" rel="nofollow"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-bell oo-ui-image-invert"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">0</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-image-invert"></span></a><div class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-popupWidget-anchored oo-ui-popupWidget oo-ui-element-hidden" aria-disabled="false"><div class="oo-ui-popupWidget-popup"><div class="oo-ui-popupWidget-head"><span class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconWidget oo-ui-icon-bell oo-ui-iconElement" aria-disabled="false"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Alerts</span><div class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget oo-ui-element-hidden" aria-disabled="false"><a class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-disabled="false" rel="nofollow"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-close"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label"></span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator"></span></a></div><div class="mw-echo-ui-notificationsWidget-markAllReadButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-buttonWidget oo-ui-element-hidden" aria-disabled="false"><a class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-disabled="false" rel="nofollow"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Mark all as read</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator"></span></a></div></div><div class="oo-ui-clippableElement-clippable oo-ui-popupWidget-body"><div class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-selectWidget oo-ui-selectWidget-depressed mw-echo-ui-notificationsWidget" aria-disabled="false" role="listbox"><div class="mw-echo-ui-notificationsWidget-loadingOption oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-optionWidget" aria-disabled="false" role="option" aria-selected="false"><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label"></span></div></div></div><div class="oo-ui-popupWidget-footer"><div class="mw-echo-ui-notificationBadgeButtonPopupWidget-footer"><div class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonGroupWidget" aria-disabled="false"><div class="mw-echo-ui-notificationBadgeButtonPopupWidget-footer-allnotifs oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-buttonWidget" aria-disabled="false"><a class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-disabled="false" href="/wiki/Special:Notifications" rel="nofollow"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-next"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">All notifications</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator"></span></a></div><div class="mw-echo-ui-notificationBadgeButtonPopupWidget-footer-preferences oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-buttonWidget" aria-disabled="false"><a class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-disabled="false" href="/wiki/Special:Preferences" rel="nofollow"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-advanced"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Preferences</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator"></span></a></div></div></div></div></div><div class="oo-ui-popupWidget-anchor"></div></div></div></li>
<li id="pt-notifications-message"><div class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-primary oo-ui-buttonWidget oo-ui-popupButtonWidget oo-ui-iconElement mw-echo-ui-notificationBadgeButtonPopupWidget mw-echo-ui-notificationBadgeButtonPopupWidget-message" aria-disabled="false" aria-haspopup="true"><a class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button" role="button" title="Your messages" aria-disabled="false" rel="nofollow"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-speechBubble oo-ui-image-invert"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">0</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-image-invert"></span></a><div class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-popupWidget-anchored oo-ui-popupWidget oo-ui-element-hidden" aria-disabled="false"><div class="oo-ui-popupWidget-popup"><div class="oo-ui-popupWidget-head"><span class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconWidget oo-ui-icon-speechBubble oo-ui-iconElement" aria-disabled="false"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Messages</span><div class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget oo-ui-element-hidden" aria-disabled="false"><a class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-disabled="false" rel="nofollow"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-close"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label"></span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator"></span></a></div><div class="mw-echo-ui-notificationsWidget-markAllReadButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-buttonWidget oo-ui-element-hidden" aria-disabled="false"><a class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-disabled="false" rel="nofollow"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Mark all as read</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator"></span></a></div></div><div class="oo-ui-clippableElement-clippable oo-ui-popupWidget-body"><div class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-selectWidget oo-ui-selectWidget-depressed mw-echo-ui-notificationsWidget" aria-disabled="false" role="listbox"><div class="mw-echo-ui-notificationsWidget-loadingOption oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-optionWidget" aria-disabled="false" role="option" aria-selected="false"><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label"></span></div></div></div><div class="oo-ui-popupWidget-footer"><div class="mw-echo-ui-notificationBadgeButtonPopupWidget-footer"><div class="oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonGroupWidget" aria-disabled="false"><div class="mw-echo-ui-notificationBadgeButtonPopupWidget-footer-allnotifs oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-buttonWidget" aria-disabled="false"><a class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-disabled="false" href="/wiki/Special:Notifications" rel="nofollow"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-next"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">All notifications</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator"></span></a></div><div class="mw-echo-ui-notificationBadgeButtonPopupWidget-footer-preferences oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-buttonWidget" aria-disabled="false"><a class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-disabled="false" href="/wiki/Special:Preferences" rel="nofollow"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-advanced"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Preferences</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator"></span></a></div></div></div></div></div><div class="oo-ui-popupWidget-anchor"></div></div></div></li>

Obviously, the javascript is changing the notification content significantly at load, which shouldn't really be necessary, especially in cases where there are no notifications. Dragons flight (talk) 11:03, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

• Splitting them is a reasonable idea. It does look terrible though, at least in Monobook. —Kusma (t·c) 10:06, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

• DESiegel summarizes it well. My first reaction was dislike, probably purely because it was a change; I'm currently undecided (I originally posted at Wikipedia talk:Notifications#New appearance, thanks Redrose for the post about this discussion).—Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 12:23, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

• My biggest complaint is that these two buttons are now taking up more space than they used to. I liked it when both messages to my talk page and other information were put into one button. Now they're just using up more room, especially considering the "messages" indicator is just a pointless redundant link to my talk page, which I don't need and I don't care about. Also, it just makes Special:Notifications a bit laughable... we have two buttons that essentially are connected to the same page. You may as well make a filter in Special:Notifications that allows us to specifically filter out what we want to see, say, if we're looking for a specific something. --I am k6ka ^{Talk to me!} _{See what I have done} 20:36, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

By the way, there are some Wikipedias (ru:, es:, fr:, and most probably some else), where is on;y one bell. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 23:20, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

• whatever, it is not the eighth wonder of the world, but it ain't bad either. Though I do not get the need to have "my messages" and the "talk" page link has they both light up when there are messages. - Nabla (talk) 11:34, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
• I want to burn this with fire already; I've got a big red ALERT taunting me and clicking on it does jack-all. Might be this godawful plugin-riddled IE8 this computer forces me to use, but I have yet to test this on Chrome at home. Either way I loathe it, what was there before worked fine even on this shitty browser. If it ain't broke... ^BLUSTER⌉⌊_BLASTER 17:15, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Got it to go away by going directly to Special:Notifications, but still. Shouldn't need to do it. ^BLUSTER⌉⌊_BLASTER 17:32, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

[Error] TypeError: null is not an object (evaluating '/\d+/.exec($("#pt-notifications").text())')
	(anonymous function)
	fire
	add
	ready
	(anonymous function)
[Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 500 (HTTP/1.1 500) (queryTasks, line 0)

.oo-ui-icon-bell {display: none !important;}
.oo-ui-icon-speechBubble {display: none !important;}

.oo-ui-icon-bellOn {display: none !important;}

I made an edit, and I was notified that someone reverted my edit, when in fact they didn't revert anything changed in my edit. nyuszika7h (talk) 15:00, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

They did change something in your edit but also made other changes. The notification is caused by using the "undo" link. It's possible to change the prefilled edit summary and manually make other changes before saving. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:23, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter: Oh, that looks like an edit conflict that wasn't caught. The background color was changed while I was editing. nyuszika7h (talk) 14:49, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Is it possible to generate a list of registered users that have made edits to Wikipedia articles' category from a particular geo-location within a time range? E.g. List of accounts that have made edits from Ghana, on Ghana-related articles, in the year 2014. Is there any tool that can already do this? —M@sssly^✉ 21:58, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Presumably not, since user location information is confidential.--Anders Feder (talk) 22:23, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

I see. Excluding geo-location: Is there a way I can get a list of users, that have made edits on Ghana-related articles, in a particular time/date range? —M@sssly^✉ 23:48, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

I think many editors would be uncomfortable about a public tool collecting data to try to guess where they are. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:38, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

The information is available should anyone want to make a bot. Someone with the skills to do so would have to see a good reason behind it though. Chillum 00:40, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

It wouldn't be accurate though; see User:Redrose64#Where am I? - my IP address presently geolocates to 51.50°N 0.13°W / 51.50; -0.13 which is the Methodist Central Hall Westminster - more than fifty miles away from the truth. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:17, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Masssly: this probably isn't what you wanted to get, but there is such page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Directory/Description/WikiProject Ghana.
A little bit (un-)related use-case of such tool (list of users, that have made edits on Foo-related articles). I have a user category, for example, Category:User ca-N, and I want to get those users, who have made X edits in last Y days/months or whatever. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 09:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Actually Anders_Feder a lot of Wikipedians state where they're from on their userpage, so that information isn't necessarily private. It would be a pain in the neck, but a database could be compiled based on where the users were stating they were from and then organize said list by location and compare it with a certain page to see who has edited from their stated location. It could be done, but it would be a pain. KoshVorlon We are all Kosh 15:56, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

One can do all sorts of weird things. I was responding to the actual question posed by the OP.--Anders Feder (talk) 16:05, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Without the consent of the individual users, WP:OUTING comes into play if the database gets too specific. — Maile (talk) 16:28, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Quite true, but which username edits which article is public info, so the sort of tool described above which gives a list of users who edit any of a set of pages (possibly derived from category membership) between one date/timestamp and another would not in any way violate any privacy rights, it is just aggregating what could be seen by visiting a set of page histories. I am thinking of trying to make this work as a tool, rather than a bot, where one would input the base page and timestamp limits, and get a list of editors back, perhaps sorted by frequency of edit. This would be as much an exercise in tool creation as anything. DES ^(talk) 21:28, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

• @Edgars2007: Actually Wikipedia:WikiProject Directory/Description/WikiProject Ghana is somewhat useful and I did not know it existed. The problem is that the list there is not exhaustive and it doesn't give us any other perspective, most importantly that of time. I may have to ask Harej about the regexes that generated those usernames. Editorship in the Ghanaian community lacks clarity in so many ways and I needed such a list to improve a proposal I am developing here that would allow me get in touch with them and ask them questions. —M@sssly^✉ 04:32, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

On at least two occasions I've observed an entry in my watchlist or an article's history stating that a speedy deletion template was removed, to find that the template was still there. What's going on there? An example is at . —Largo Plazo (talk) 21:05, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I just came cross another case: . —Largo Plazo (talk) 21:13, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Must be a bug in abuse filter #29.--Anders Feder (talk) 21:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

No, the bug is that the edit filter gets a wrong diff. Compare to , and ] to . I notice VisualEditor was used in both cases. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:08, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

More examples: and (mobile IP edit, not VisualEditor), and (VisualEditor). PrimeHunter (talk) 22:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

It's like a hybrid diff. Looking at the Waz example, both diffs show the same addition of body content (the SSA Annual Competition section), the correctness of which can be confirmed by looking directly at the pre- and post-edit versions. But on the other hand, the pre- and post-edit versions both have this at the top:

   {{db-hoax}}
   {{csb-pageincludes|1=http://sss.wiki/magcon-tour/}}
   
   <!--- Don't mess with this line! ---><!--- Write your article below this line --->

yet the diff that's being sent to the edit filter gives the false impression that the {{db-hoax}} template has disappeared, that a {{new unreviewed article}} template has been added after the first comment, and that the second comment has been pushed down one line. Basically, it's the exact reverse of the diff for the revision immediately preceding the one we're discussing, the one from my tagging the article for deletion: . To sum it up, the edit filter got the current diff for the body and the reverse of the previous diff for the preamble. —Largo Plazo (talk) 22:37, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Since the edits (or at least those I can view, most of the links above refer to pages that were apparently already deleted) are all close together, this is probably phab:T73947 (related to automated edit conflict resolution). Matma Rex talk 01:11, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

When viewing the edit summary search in Internet Explorer, the tab says "Certificate Error: Navigation Blocked" and the page says the following:

There is a problem with this website’s security certificate.
The security certificate presented by this website has expired or is not yet valid.
Security certificate problems may indicate an attempt to fool you or intercept any data you send to the server.
We recommend that you close this webpage and do not continue to this website.
Recommended iconClick here to close this webpage.
Not recommended iconContinue to this website (not recommended).
More information

GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 01:29, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

The Tool Labs HTTPS certificate expired a hour or so ago. Our renewal request is in process at the CA and should be back with us soon. In the meantime you can use the http version (). Apologies for the inconvenience. This is tracked at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T112608 YuviPanda (WMF) (talk) 01:46, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

This pretty much has my hands tied. I can't see editors contributions history nor see any of my WikiProjects cleanup listings. I use the first to judge how to warn for vandalism and I am waiting to vote in two RfAs. The second I use to find work. I am on Chrome and Google is issuing me rather nasty warnings:

Attackers might be trying to steal your information from tools.wmflabs.org ...
This may be caused by a misconfiguration or an attacker intercepting my connection. 
Your computer's clock is set to Tuesday September 15 2015. Does that look right?.

Nice. sigh... Fylbecatulous talk 13:48, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

What are the specific URLs you are trying to access? As YuviPanda wrote above, you should use the HTTP version until the HTTPS version is back up. Editor contribution histories (Special:Contributions) is not affected by this issue.--Anders Feder (talk) 14:05, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

The one that says "edit count": at the bottom of my page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Fylbecatulous:. I click edit count and getz this:https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Fylbecatulous&project=en.wikipedia.org. (privacy error). Fylbecatulous talk 14:50, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

When you get the error, just remove the 's' from the 'https' in the URL in your address bar and hit ↵ Enter, so you get e.g.:

http://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Fylbecatulous&project=en.wikipedia.org --Anders Feder (talk) 15:00, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, okay I can do that. Please don't access my computer in the meantime (Tongue-in-cheek-meow...) Thank you. Fylbecatulous talk 15:05, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

The warning given by Chrome is indeed quite over the top in this case. Even WMF can not somehow access your computer when you use this method. The philosophy behind the warning is "rather safe than sorry". If someone was asking you to do this in connection with banking or payment services you should be much more careful. But here there is not really any deeply sensitive information involved.--Anders Feder (talk) 15:14, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

The new certificates have been deployed now, so https links should be working again. If you notice any problems, please leave a message here, or even better, at phab:T112608. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 06:03, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Although File:1920 Protocols & World Revolution 3.0.png has been the first file in Category:All Wikipedia files with the same name on Wikimedia Commons for several days, when I've tried to F8 it I'm told that it's already been deleted. However, according to the deletion log that's not the case. Purging the server cache with a null edit doesn't help. Anyone know what's going on? All the best, Miniapolis 13:14, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Hm, my deletion went straight through, not sure what the cause of the issue you were having was. Sam Walton (talk) 13:23, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks; the important thing is that it's finally gone :-). I do a fair number of F8s, and don't know what the problem was with this one. All's well that ends. Miniapolis 23:03, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Miniapolis and Samwalton9, possibly the same problem I had. See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 135#Cremation or burial?. The & causes the same problem as the ? ~~`~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by CambridgeBayWeather (talk • contribs) 02:41, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

<pre style="overflow:auto;"> is often used in template documentation, particularly with infoboxes to display template code to the left of the actual infobox. Previously, a long line in the code would cause a horizontal scroll bar to be added and the text would not wrap in the middle of a line. Now the scroll bar is not added, but instead the line wraps once it reaches the right edge:

{{Infobox building
| name = Test
| footnotes = Here is a very long line that should run past the right edge. Previously a horizontal scroll bar was added and the text would not wrap. Now the text simply wraps to the next line once it reaches the right edge.
}}

Now to see the old format I need to use <pre style="overflow:auto; white-space:pre;">:

{{Infobox building
| name = Test
| footnotes = Here is a very long line that should run past the right edge. Previously a horizontal scroll bar was added and the text would not wrap. Now the text simply wraps to the next line once it reaches the right edge.
}}

I think this changed sometime between 21 June 2015 (see Internet Archive copy of Template:Infobox political party#Usage which shows the template code with a horizontal scroll bar and no wrapping) and 23 June 2015 (see Internet Archive copy of Template:Infobox settlement#Examples which shows the template code wrapping). Checking the HTML source shows that both used <pre style="overflow:auto;"> in the documentation. I do not think this is a browser or browser-version problem since I could see the scroll bar on the older archived template, but not on the newer one. I checked changes at MediaWiki:Common.css but did not see any that would have caused this. I also searched the archive here but did not see any discussion about this. Does anyone know exactly what caused this change? If it was not intentional, can a change be made to restore the former output? Thanks. -- Zyxw (talk) 13:40, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

This was changed in core following the deployment of Pygments as syntax highlighter. Pygments does not support GeSHi's "enclose" attribute, which was used to apply white-space: pre-wrap, and the decision was apparently made to make "pre-wrap" the default for all <pre>s. The bug report is phab:T103780 and the commit gerrit:220701. Alakzi (talk) 15:01, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

It was intentional and something we wanted to do for a long time (and which was first requested in the year 2004 and a number of times since), but which was previously impossible due to weird interactions between GeSHi and Tidy. See phab:T2260. Matma Rex talk 01:14, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses. -- Zyxw (talk) 10:36, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

A search for "rare early-onset, slow-progressing form of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis" returns one result which is expected:

1. Stephen Hawking

A search for "rare early-onset" "amyotrophic lateral sclerosis" returns five results with the first four not being expected:

1. Quotation mark "The symbols " and ' redirect here."
2. Apostrophe
3. Hyphen-minus "-" redirects here.
4. Modifier letter apostrophe
5. Stephen Hawking

A search for "rare early-onset" -"amyotrophic lateral sclerosis" also returns five results with four not being expected:

1. Quotation mark "The symbols " and ' redirect here."
2. Apostrophe
3. Hyphen-minus "-" redirects here.
4. Modifier letter apostrophe
5. Claudine (TV series) "Soon after, however, Andy contracts a rare, early onset of Alzheimer’s causing him to gradually forget his love for his wife"

I tested the above using both the "basic search" in the upper-right corner and Special:Search.

In the latter two examples above results 1 to 4 are unexpected and seem undesirable. Result #5 in both test cases was correct. This report is only about the first four results when using two sets of "double quoted" search terms.

Should the additional results be considered a bug or am I missing something?

Apparently we are in a transition from the LuceneSearch engine to the wikimedia:Help:CirrusSearch engine. Editors updating Wikipedia's Help:Searching article are still struggling with how to and what to document in terms of changes in the syntax. At present Help:Searching documents both the "double quoted" and -negation syntax. wikimedia:Help:CirrusSearch#Quotes and exact matches indicates that the "double quoted" form should still work though with the added features that it also enables exact matching and disables metacharacters. Negation or exclusion is not explicitly documented on the CirrusSearch help page but their examples hint that it should still work. Their examples include:

More information Example, Explanation text ...

Example	Explanation text
-intitle:foo bar	Find articles whose title does not contain foo and whose title or text contains bar.
-incategory:"musicals" incategory:"1920"	Find articles that are not in Category:Musicals but are in Category:1920
-linksto:Help:CirrusSearch CirrusSearch	find articles that mention CirrusSearch but do not link to the page Help:CirrusSearch
-hastemplate:pagename	will filter pages that do not contain that template.

Close

--Marc Kupper|talk 18:08, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Is this related to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T91219 ? GoingBatty (talk) 02:39, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

It looks like a different issue.

# The repro is different. ""foo"" versus "foo" "foo"

# The behavior is different. In T91219 ""foo"" gets one unexpected record in the result set while "foo" "foo" returns four unexpected records.

Here's some interesting data points as part of the repro. At the moment:

• "foo" returns 4,611 records.
• ""foo"" returns 4,612 records. I'm not sure how many records are expected as this could be interpreted as a search for 'empty-pattern AND foo (in meta mode) AND empty-pattern'. If that was the case then the result would be the same as a search for foo which returns 4,868 records. The extra record for ""foo"" is for Quotation mark.
• "foo" "foo" returns 4,615 records. We expected 4,611 records. The unexpected records are for Quotation mark, Apostrophe, Hyphen-minus, Modifier letter apostrophe.
• Searches for "foo, ""foo, """foo, " "foo, foo", foo"", foo""", foo"" ", etc. all return 4,868 records which is the same as a search for plain 'foo'. This indicates the parser seems to be ignoring extraneous double-quotes before or after the text.

--Marc Kupper|talk 04:47, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

GoingBatty, I read the T91219 thread again and realized I'd missed before that it was mostly about the interplay between single and double quotes. After more testing I'm leaning towards that I'm reporting the same issue though with a with a different repro. Here are the tests I did that lead to me leaning the other way:

These all return 4668 records. foo 'foo foo' 'foo' "foo "'foo "foo' "'foo' '"foo '"foo' foo" 'foo" foo"' 'foo"' foo'" 'foo'". All 16 test cases are combinations of single and double quotes with none of them having "foo" inside double quotes.

I then tested with "foo" combined with various single quotes. The next to last result is a bit odd and may be a decent clue on what's happening.

Search pattern	# records	extra results
double-foo-double	4,611
double-single-foo-double	4,611
double-foo-double-single	4,615	Quotation mark Apostrophe Hyphen-minus Modifier letter apostrophe
double-foo-single-double	4,611
double-single-foo-double-single	4,615	Quotation mark Apostrophe Hyphen-minus Modifier letter apostrophe
double-single-foo-single-double	4,611
single-double-foo-double	4,615	Quotation mark Apostrophe Hyphen-minus Modifier letter apostrophe
single-double-foo-double-single	4,614	Quotation mark Dash --
single-double-foo-single-double	4,615	Quotation mark Apostrophe Hyphen-minus Modifier letter apostrophe

--Marc Kupper|talk 05:53, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

You're looking for info on "rare early-onset" AND "amyotrophic lateral sclerosis" You got something related to T112722, which I just opened because your efforts here reminded me about it. Thanks.

P.S. You may also want info on "rare early-onset" AND -"amyotrophic lateral sclerosis" — CpiralCpiral 05:20, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. It's interesting how adding 'AND' fixes the issue even though there's supposed to be an implied AND in there. --Marc Kupper|talk 06:01, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. This is one of those discoveries I'll be adding to Help:Searching/Draft. There really is only paltry amounts about CirrusSearch, (now at version 0.2), even at MW:Help:CirrusSearch and its talk page, and at elastica, and at phabricator and here at the village pump. — CpiralCpiral 07:41, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

 Done

2015 Conference USA Women's Basketball Tournament includes a visible </noinclude> in the lead. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 22:20, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

 fixed with this edit. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:24, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

The links + text at the top right of site pages changed very recently for editors who're unregistered. Before:

English Create account Log in

Now it's eleven words; eight in blue, three in grey. The ULS input-tools button is gone (and it did look nice). Preceding "talk" & "contributions" links with "IP" is redundant—logged-in editor's links aren't preceded with "Account". The words in grey are very jarring when editing, unnecessary with the Log in link already present and take up a lot of screen real estate at the top.

Create account

Not logged in

IP talk

IP contributions

Log in

Can it be changed back please? Alternatively, if we're to keep the talk & contribs links, lets drop the "IP" and the words in grey as these are all redundant. Thank you. –84.92.129.87 (talk) 16:03, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

See also MediaWiki_talk:Common.js#Add_toolbar_for_IPs and Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_125#Not-logged-in_system —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 16:12, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps the "IP" is too much, but a direct link to an IP's user page and contributions is handy. I'm not sure how the language tools ended up there; I have never seen them here, not even when logged out. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 16:41, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

@Edokter: The language tool icons in File:WMF-Agora-Language selection-crop 3492D1.svg seem to be the same as the ones displayed on meta:. I can't be sure, because Firefox's "Inspect element" feature won't tell me how they get there. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:02, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Same image, but it's loaded as background image for a#uls-trigger (under li#pt-uls) from the ULS extension's directory. My point is, enwiki's ULS controls are located in the languages sidebar, not in the user toolbar. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 17:22, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Hah I could've sworn the ULS was present; lately I've been on sister projects like wikidata too, so guess it got stuck in my head! Previously the bar was even more compact then. –84.92.129.87 22:39, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, TheDJ. I'd somehow missed those threads in my search. I'm happy to keep the handy "Talk" & "Contributions" links. –84.92.129.87 (talk) 22:39, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Let's remove the grey text please. The always-on dark icon–text is very obtrusive when editing, redundant with the blue Log in link already present, and redundant to the editnotice. The bar width is about 40% of the edit window. Every edit, every page. It's too much.

In the discussion, which only had a few days of participation, one proponent said it's invisible if you're logged-in. That's as maybe. It's not so for not-logged-in contributors. I appreciate sometimes some editors that're normally logged-in users can edit logged out, wrt suppression. But that's why we have a mediawiki notice. Much effort's gone into it to make it effective without being excessive. If it needs further improvement, let's do that. Between the bar and the notice we've eye-arresting blue links and external links, bolding for strong emphasis, and a high contrast coloured fmbox. The fact is, irrespective of what's onscreen conceivably some people still might miss it.

It's analogous to the various sitenotices. We try to avoid their overuse. And they can be dismissed, these notices can't. To be clear I'm all for the editnotice prompting as it does, but once there's already a not‑logged‑in-warning, it's excessive to be duplicating it—having one then centimetres later another. –84.92.129.87 (talk) 22:39, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

The capital of Germany is: Berlin. :D--Anders Feder (talk) 10:55, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

So to do this we need to know the P number and Q number? It would be more intuitive if we could use The capital of Germany is: {{#property:capital|from=Germany}} --Redrose64 (talk) 13:11, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

IMO such uses of {{#property:capital}} should actually be deprecated, since the name of a Wikidata item (or property) is not guaranteed to be unique. Why the request for that was catered to, I will never understand. --Izno (talk) 13:27, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd have to agree. The name/label may also change subject to edits on Wikidata, whereas the item number is fixed.--Anders Feder (talk) 13:30, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

See the long thread "property label/alias uniqueness", on Wikidata list. Helder 12:27, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

My point is that somebody coming across {{#property:P36|from=Q183}} in the wikicode will have no idea what either P36 or Q183 mean, even if they know what #property: does - it's way too cryptic, whereas {{#property:capital|from=Germany}} has clues - even if you don't know what #property: does you can at least guess that it's something to do with the capital of Germany. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:51, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

We are probably going to write templates to use this, otherwise there will be too much research required for each individual use. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:46, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

I noticed, in Wikipedia:WikiProject_Academic_Journals/Journals_cited_by_Wikipedia/A1 the entry "Abhandlungen der K?öniglichen Gesellschaft der Wissenschaften zu G?öttingen". Upon looking at the article that had this citation, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Riemann_invariant&oldid=660047450, I saw that in the rendered text, it had "Abhandlungen der K?öniglichen Gesellschaft der Wissenschaften zu G?öttingen", but in the edit window it had "Abhandlungen der Königlichen Gesellschaft der Wissenschaften zu Göttingen". I manually deleted and overwrote Kö/Gö, and it created a diff, that now renders correctly.

Question 1) WTF? Question 2) Can someone do a database scan of Wikipedia to find this sort of stuff, and do an AWB run or something to clean them up?

17:36, 16 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Headbomb (talk • contribs)

For some reason there was a Delete character in front of the diacritic. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 17:55, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

The heading of mainspace edits appears in Korean (일반 문서) when using the edit counter in English Wikipedia. The rest of the headings are in English. Same thing happens in the article creation counter when 일반 문서 appears to indicate the article creation heading. Does anyone know why? Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 01:53, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

I get the same thing and have for many months. Google Translate says that the Korean text says "General Documents". I submitted a bug report, and I'm hoping that Cyberpower678, who is one of the editors listed at the bottom of the page, knows who might be able to fix it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:43, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I agree, it's been there for a long time. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 03:48, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes - a long time this has been there.

• Namespace: 일반 문서 (0)
• Pages created 일반 문서

Under Namespace Totals, the Korean characters even have a blue link that, when clicked, takes you to the same page you were already on. — Maile (talk) 12:41, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

The Korean text is a known issue. See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 138#edit count language. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:16, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Can someone tell me what's wrong at Submarine U-475 Black Widow? I tried moving the "italic title" template in to the "Infobox ship begin" but that didn't help. Kendall-K1 (talk) 03:23, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

See here - someone decided that it would be a good idea to play around with ship infoboxes without any real concern about how much damage there experiments would cause.Nigel Ish (talk) 05:53, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

@Kendall-K1: It used to be possible to fix this by setting |italic title=no within the {{Infobox ship begin}} but that facility was removed with this edit. I would restore the wikicode of the lead section of Submarine U-475 Black Widow to the state it was before, then post at WT:SHIPS notifying them of your concerns. You could include a link back here, if you like. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:30, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Would someone be able to help at Wikipedia talk:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure#Archive links for one click archiver missing? Thanks, Cunard (talk) 05:59, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

I fixed it, found the headerlevel in the cluebot settings was set to 4, and the headers were all 3. AlbinoFerret 11:52, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

For the past 2 days I have been unable to browse the Wikimedia Commons. It returns an SSL certificate error. Blackberry Bold 9900 browser using the Desktop view. Checkingfax (talk) 04:40, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

What is the exact error message and the full web address to try this with? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:00, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply, AKlapper (WMF). https://commons.wikimedia.org/ is the URL. Here is the error: Refusing connection. This server has been previously noted as supporting http Strict Transport Security. Due to SSL certificate warnings/errors, a connection will not be made. Then there is an OK button. If I try an http as a workaround URL Wikipedia renders it to https. Checkingfax (talk) 21:38, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Fixed Yay! I can now get to the Commons. Thank you to the Wikigods. Checkingfax (talk) 02:21, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Editnotices, such as Template:Editnotices/Page/Wikipedia:Village pump (technical), are now editable by anyone. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 01:30, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I raised phab:T113121 about this issue. TTO's apostrophe (talk) 02:25, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Now fixed. — This, that and the other (talk) 06:32, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Please comment at WP:BOTREQ#Bot to undelete 400,000 old IP talk pages - a proposal to use a bot to undelete some 400,000 IP talk pages that were deleted as stale. 103.6.159.88 (talk) 06:01, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

AWB seems to have a broken preview today. I suspect that stylesheet changed on mediawiki or an API option changed? Can anyone help?

@Rjwilmsi and Reedy: Check this out. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:48, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

No changes (it's weekend). It seems CSS is just missing. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 09:18, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Does anybody know why are not these buttons 1 and 2 being displayed while transcluded (i.e. in template’s documentation itself too), but correctly while using Show preview option? --Obsuser (talk) 00:20, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't know why saved pages and previews render differently. sr:User:PrimeHunter/sandbox has a simplified case where the only content is <span class="ui-button">Test</span>. I see a button in preview but only the text in the saved page. At the English Wikipedia it renders as a button for me in both preview and a saved page like here: Test. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:11, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

The "Last edited" part is now on the bottom rather than the top in Mobile Wikipedia. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 00:58, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

We know. :) See phab:T104697. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:17, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm not overly familiar with the different permissions that each user access level has. Can someone confirm whether this edit is correct or not? The edit changes the "skipcaptcha" permission for registered accounts from "granted" to "limited" status. --benlisquare_T•C•E 06:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that edit is correct. Graham87 12:45, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Resolved

Materialscientist has used the "email user" three times from my Talk page and they never went through to me. I get Wikipedia emails all day but not these sent from the "email user" link". I use Gmail and have successfully for 10 years. Checkingfax (talk) 04:50, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Problems of this sort usually come down to "what is the sender's email provider?" see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 129#Is "Email this user" on the blink? and the threads linked back from there, also phab:T66795. It mainly affects Yahoo, and the recipient's email address has little to do with it. That said, have you checked your spam box? --Redrose64 (talk) 09:16, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Redrose64, nothing in my Gmail Spam folder nor Junk Mail folder. I do not know what email server Materialscientist uses. I need a Checkuser run because there is a security hole in Wikipedia that needs to be patched. I have a strong password plus a username that is not in the dictionary. Checkingfax (talk) 21:42, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I finally got one. Checkingfax (talk) 22:33, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

See . This worked before, it is supposed to sign your name when you add it to a page, but for some reason this time it added four tildes without them being converted to a dig. I wouldn't have thought that was even possible, but there it is. The only recent change to the template was a move, I don't know how that could have borked it but that's why I'm asking here. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:53, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

@Beeblebrox: I believe it's because you didn't substitute it. Sam Walton (talk) 21:58, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

aw crap, I believe you are correct. Never mind. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:22, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

What would it take to present a Main Page that each user could personalize the inclusion/arrangement of the content features (Today's featured article, In the news, On this day, etc)?   The Transhumanist 08:47, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

First, make a copy of Main Page in your userspace. You will find that most of it is transcluded content that's been arranged into boxes with tables and <div>...</div>s. Just move it around to get the arrangement that you like. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:46, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

I think the question is asking for a customisable Main Page, i.e. you can click a button and the Main Page suddenly appears differently, as if you're visiting Facebook. This kind of setup would require radical changes and extensive coding work that wouldn't be compatible with our MediaWiki software. Nyttend (talk) 15:23, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

More like My Yahoo. Select the components you want, and in what order they are presented. The Transhumanist 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) And if you want to see your version instead of current Main page, then do this. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 15:26, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I know. I started that page. Preferences are much more prominent (users can readily find them). The Transhumanist 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Whoops :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 21:46, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Citation Bot is randomly intercepting occasional article edits performed by me. Then CB appends my Edit Summary with: Assisted by citation bot. Checkingfax (talk) 22:14, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

It is probably to do with what you have in User:Checkingfax/common.js, in particular https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Zhaofeng_Li/Reflinks.js Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:19, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Are you sure you didn't click the "Citations" button, assuming you have one? It can be disabled at "Citation expander" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

I have a Citations button and I have never pressed it. Checkingfax (talk) 22:36, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

That's hard to say with certainty. If you never use it intentionally then you can just disable it. Whether it's activated by a bug or misclick, it will probably stop if you disable it. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:45, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Maybe it doesn't like you. The Transhumanist 00:31, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

I posted here and was reverted since we're not supposed to edit archives. But if this is true why is there an edit button for every section?

I did get a response after all. It seems the recipient found the emails in his/her spam folder. This still doesn't explain why I didn't get a copy of my sent email.HarleyRandomBoy 22:05, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

I've been having some issues with sending emails, which meant I had to click twice on the button in order to actually send it. I wonder if that's related. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 16:04, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

If page A has been moved to page B and the protection settings for A moved to B, why is A still protected? GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 21:23, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

@GeoffreyT2000: Do you have an example? Does it involve pending changes protection, by chance? Graham87 12:57, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

@Graham87: For example, Template:Edit protected, which is semi-protected, was moved to Template:Edit fully protected, which is also semi-protected, which in turn was moved to Template:Edit fully-protected, which again is semi-protected. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 14:02, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

This is probably intended. –xeno^talk 14:31, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, when a page is moved, the redirect which is created during that move inherits the prot settings of the moved page. This has been the case for as long as I've been around. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:46, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

The latest note at User talk:KDS4444 surprised me: another editor reports that it's impossible to create pages with Visual Editor, so aside from creating pages in userspace, the only practical way to do it is to use the normal editor mode to create the page and then actually do the writing in VE. This can cause problems; the note is related to the GIET page, which consisted only of "GIET can refer to" upon creation and was therefore tagged for speedy deletion before the creator could add more content. Is this a known problem? I'm not seeing anything relevant at WP:VE#Limitations. Nyttend (talk) 14:47, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

I did succeed in launching a page through ?veaction=edit here.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:03, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

How did you get there: did you have to change the URL, or could you simply pick an option somewhere? (I've never used VE, so I don't have a clue how it works.) If the former, I don't see the benefit, since the whole reason for VE is to support editors who just want to sit down and write, rather than worrying about coding and editing tricks. Nyttend (talk) 15:17, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

By appending ?veaction=edit to the URL of the page. I believe there are settings to have a "VE mode" page but I don't use them - maybe these don't work on non-existent pages?Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:29, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

@Nyttend: I have the visual editor enabled and I definitely have the option to create new pages using it without any URL manipulation. Not sure what's going on here. — Earwig ^talk 21:51, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello everyone. This report is strange indeed. If you do have VE enabled in your Beta Preferences, then you do get a "Create" tab to start pages with VE. However, that will only work on namespaces where VE is enabled; even when you have VE enabled, clicking on a red link will not launch it for you - you have to click on the VE tab deliberately. I'll ask the editor for more information anyway :) Best, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 15:20, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

As I imagined, Nyttend, the problem was accessing VE from a red link (in this case, after searching for the article). The easiest workaround is the one I described above. FWIW other Wikipedias have changed the interface messages that editors see when looking for/landing on the page of an article which doesn't exist, adding a link so that editors can launch VE directly to create the article. Best, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 16:47, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

I've never come across this before. In Firefox 40.0.3, at this article, I clicked on the table image of Akmal Ikramov, and it redirects to the main page of Commons. The article creator does not have that problem. I clicked on the image from IE 11, and it goes directly to the image in Commons. I did not have that peculiar issue with any other image in that table. — Maile (talk) 19:52, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

I guess you have the Firefox add-on NoScript. The double parentheses in the url https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Soviet_Union_1968_CPA_3668_stamp_(One_of_Organizers_of_the_Communist_Party_of_Uzbekistan_Akmal_Ikramov_(1898%E2%80%931938)).jpg can trigger a Noscript filter against cross-site scripting. https://noscript.net/faq#qa4_2 mentions other problem url's. It should work if you disable NoScript, make a NoScript exception or use a url with percent encoding like https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Soviet_Union_1968_CPA_3668_stamp_%28One_of_Organizers_of_the_Communist_Party_of_Uzbekistan_Akmal_Ikramov_%281898%E2%80%931938%29%29.jpg. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:36, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

You guessed correctly. Thanks for solving the mystery. — Maile (talk) 21:44, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Is there a way to test for the first use of a particular template in a page? Use case would be to provide a longer alt text on the first use of a symbol template on a page, but for subsequent uses of the same symbol template to use just the name of the symbol as the alt text. Thisisnotatest (talk) 22:13, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Even if there were, it would likely break when the page was parsed with Parsoid. Anomie⚔ 01:17, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd like to keep a watch on everything in several categories that contain a boatload of subcategories; e.g., Category:Prehistoric mammals. 'Related changes' would normally be the tool of choice, I guess, but this will not descend into sub-categories, forcing me to set up 50+ links to individual subs. Is there a way to have 'related changes' span pages in sub-categories? At the moment I'm using CatScan as a work-around to show all pages in a cat with changes in the last 24h, which isn't half bad, but it still requires me to click into the history of each article to check the nature of the edit, rather than providing a nice summary for quick triage. Any advice? -- Elmidae (talk) 06:52, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

There is such tool, but it isn't working. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 07:24, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Eh. So no dice on that front, I suspect?-- Elmidae (talk) 08:49, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

18:29, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

And an additional update, just for English Wikipedia: as requested in an earlier discussion, we now ask that search engines do not index pages in the user name space. /Johan (WMF) (talk) 18:38, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

• Am I losing it or does the page move tool still look exactly the same? Or was the change just some backend stuff that users aren't meant to notice? Jenks24 (talk) 10:16, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

  You're not losing it. I noticed no difference myself. --Izno (talk) 13:55, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

  As written above on the "changes this week" section, the newest version (1.26wmf24) will be deployed on Thursday (Sept. 24). --Stryn (talk) 15:03, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Maybe I could have formulated that clearer. Mea culpa. /Johan (WMF) (talk) 09:52, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah, there it is. Can't say I'm a huge fan of it being so huge, but then again I still wish that it hadn't been changed to select namespaces. Jenks24 (talk) 18:33, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

I've added a bug/complaint to the phab task that made this change, see phab:T86865 on the very off chance someone is interested. Jenks24 (talk) 18:59, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

I have just edited List of pharmacy schools, the Rwanda section; it shows completely blank, other than the heading, on the page, though the section (in the edit screen) has the correct text. What am i missing? I have bypassed my cache and purged the page (though i barely know what those phrases mean, i can talk the talk!), and if i go back to the editor what i expect to see is visible, it simply is not showing on the rendered page. In addition, the History page shows the right increase in page size, so the edit "took". I use Chrome, on Windows 7, if that matters. Oh, and i should add that i have made several other edits, to that page and to others, and have not had the same issue arise. Cheers, Lindsay^Hello 14:43, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Fixed.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:49, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

My gosh, now i feel silly. Thanks, Trappist. Cheers, Lindsay^Hello 15:05, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

English Wikipedia returned a 503 error for me for about five minutes. Was anyone else having this problem? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samwightt (talk • contribs) 16:30, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Servers are back! --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 16:31, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes. It went down and came back. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:38, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Comment: Whilst we are on this subject. I have noticed occasionally that some references on WP have been deleted on Saturdays and Sundays on the basis that they are dead links, when all that is happening, is that the site is under going a little weekend maintenance. I ask editors here to please wait at least 48 hours. Perhaps we should approach the Wayback Machine organisation to make an archive copy of all the pages we link to - or do it ourselves. I've spent hours tying to find alternative copies of verifiable source material that has just evaporated into the either when the sites die. Would this idea get support if I posted it on proposals?--Aspro (talk) 17:02, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

References should not be deleted, and never on the grounds that the link is dead. Add a {{dead link}} inside the <ref>...</ref> but outside any {{cite web}} (or similar) that might be present. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Agree. Yet, WP has so many polices and guidelines that many editor are not aware of all of them all and just delete. Even then, {{dead link}} leaves the reader without the verifiable source to read. Jimmy Wales has had the foresight to provide the WMF with a little war-chest. A expository of verifiable WP references may not cost a lot and would be well worth it. It would make WP not just an encyclopedia but the depository of human knowledge. Oh gosh, on re-reading that last part, it sounds far too grand and precocious – but I hope you see through to what I am getting at.--Aspro (talk) 20:33, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

I think Wikipedia should have a feature that only those administrators who are granted the ability to use can use, of typing in any algorithm they want to run on the entire Wikipedia site to detect properties of that site. I think the right type of research group, if its people were granted that ability could probably be very good at identifying problems in Wikipedia and researching how to fix them. For example, one thing they might be able to do is run a program that will detect which articles are written in a style where they don't look like they belong in Wikipedia. Another thing they might be able to do is detect when an article is too technical and if the information needed to explain it can be found elsewhere in Wikipedia, which articles have that explaining information. They might even be able to run a program that will tell based on all of Wikipedia's past experience of which articles passed good article nomination, whether another article would pass it or not, and another program that will for each person participating in a good article discussion seek out the relevant Wikipedia policies to teach them based on what they said in the discussion and how the rest of the discussion before that went. Blackbombchu (talk) 02:58, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

@Blackbombchu: Thanks for the suggestion. This is pretty much already available in the form of database dumps. Interested users can download copies of the database that they can do whatever they want to, including running queries on them. There are several advantages to doing it this way, such as allowing users maximum flexibility in what users do with the data and how they do it, improved security from not letting users run arbitrary code on the site, and improved performance by not having people slowing down the database access by running performance intensive queries. --Dan Garry, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 03:11, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

And there's Tool Labs. Graham87 08:20, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

I would think that for many of the good suggestions, the problem is not access to the data (as pointed out, we have dumps, or bots for less intensive work). But the problems are nearly AI-hard. I think we (as in the scientific/academic community) might be able to do some of them, but not with great reliability, and not without significant research. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:12, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Since I by now have 4000+ articles “watched", I have my preferences “ticked” for “Hide bot edits from the watchlist”. However, this means that I do not see the changes done *before* a bot edited, either! Take a look at AnomieBOT (talk · contribs), and “watch” some of the latest articles it edited, and you will see what I mean.

This is not good; a vandal could e.g. insert some vandalism, then write {{Citation needed}} knowing that a bot would be along very soon to add {{Citation needed|date=September 2015}} …and none of the people “watching” that article would note it (if they have “ticked” for “Hide bot edits from the watchlist”.)

I noticed the problem on Beit Hanina: I could not see that an IP had removed substantial material, as AnomieBOT had come along with "Rescuing orphaned refs."

Is this something the developers are aware of? Can they please change it, so we will see the edits done *before* the bot-edit? Also, either I have just been very slow, or this is a “new” feature. At least: I have never noticed it before, and I have had the ignore “bot edits from the watchlist” option for years.

Btw, I´m using the latest Safari-version, and I have adblocks installed (I´m not sure if this is relevant, or not), Huldra (talk) 08:37, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

@Huldra: This is phab:T11790, first logged in 2007. The "Hide" options only work properly when using the "expanded watchlist" - "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" on the "Watchlist" tab in the preferences. Presumably if this could be fixed easily it would have been done by now. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:44, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

@John of Reading: Thank you very much for your reply. I find this situation pretty horrible; I tried "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent", but if you keep much-used pages "watched", (like Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents) it makes the "watch-list" an unmanageable clutter. I have ended up "watching" bot-edits instead. A very unsatisfactory solution. But since I "watch" a *lot* of articles on Palestinian history, with few other "watchers", articles which are often the object of vandalism: I have to. That WMF haven´t been able to fix this since 2007 is, IMO, quite unbelievable. Huldra (talk) 09:24, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

I agree it's unfortunate. I documented the behaviour in . It's also mentioned at mw:Help:Watching pages#Simple watchlist. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:38, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

"That WMF haven´t been able to fix this since 2007 is, IMO, quite unbelievable." You must not be paying attention to the WMF. It's actually quite predictable, not unbelievable. - 2001:558:1400:10:9060:C8F1:6CE5:698F (talk) 14:29, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

I have commented on this problem before, that there is a .js script that fixes this but I can't remember by whom. Maybe as in the previous case someone will be able to help. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 17:25, 24 September 2015 (UTC).

Aaaaargh! Huldra (talk) 21:29, 24 September 2015 (UTC) (tearing her hair out in frustration...) (PS: if they don´t fix the bug, at least they should give a warning on "preferences"? Now, there is nothing to warn editors against unwanted side-effects when enabling "Hide bot edits from the watch list")

@Huldra: Have you tried the enhanced watchlist? - File:Enhanced recent changes expanding screencast.ogv. Enable "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent” in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist first and then enable "Group changes by page in recent changes and watch list” in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rc. - 185.108.128.22 (talk) 21:41, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

@185.108.128.22: Thanks, that was an interesting alternative; I will try it… Huldra (talk) 22:52, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Not sure if this is part of an obscure template somewhere, or a MediaWiki bug, but I've noticed a few times that after moving an article, the success message I get is:

Y The page "Old example" (links | edit) has been moved to "New example" (edit | history | links | revert | log)

That last link always seems to be to Special:Log/move, a log of all page moves across the project. Should it be (or would it make more sense to be) a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=New+example, the public log for the new name I've just given the article? I occasionally click it to check that I haven't just moved an article to a page with a long history of deletions, and it never does what I expect it to. --McGeddon (talk) 11:02, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

To whit, the page that controls the URL is MediaWiki:Movepage-moved.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 11:06, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

The log link was added in on request at MediaWiki talk:Movepage-moved#Convenience links. I think a general log link makes sense since it will show all performed moves of talk pages and subpages (only admins can include subpages in a move). You can suggest a change or an addition of a new link at MediaWiki talk:Movepage-moved. Or maybe the layout should just be changed so it doesn't give the impression that "log" only applies to the target title. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:27, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Whilst on that matter, in the watchlist and recent changes, a loggable action has e.g. "(Move log)"; "(Deletion log)"; "(User creation log)"; etc. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:38, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I've raised it over at the interface talk page. --McGeddon (talk) 16:20, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

When I tried to F8 File:'Meme' By Mark Lloyd.jpg and File:'Daisy Daisy' by Mark Lloyd.jpg, I got the error message 'The requested page title contains invalid characters: "%27"'. Does it have to do with the apostrophes in the titles? Do the files have to be moved (losing the apostrophes) before they can be deleted? All the best, Miniapolis 13:41, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

How does the URL look in your browser address bar? Browsers sometimes mangle such special characters.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 13:50, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

• Weird; I tried to duplicate your problem, and the deletion went through seamlessly. I would offer to temporarily undelete to figure out what was going on, but I assume anyone who could actually help you has the tools to do so themselves. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:55, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Floq; I saw your deletions and was glad they went through. I just deleted another file from the queue, so apparently it was a hiccup :-). All the best, Miniapolis 17:03, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

There is less than one week left to submit Individual Engagement Grant (IEG) proposals before the September 29th deadline. If you have ideas for new tools, community-building processes, and other experimental projects that enhance the work of Wikimedia volunteers, start your proposal today! Please encourage others who have great ideas to apply as well. Support is available if you want help turning your idea into a grant request.

• Submit a grant request
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I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 15:27, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

In subpages of Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team, links to pages in the draft namespace begin with a colon. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 02:48, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

I just now looked at a section higher up on this page and clicked the link to , a diff for a now-deleted page, but instead of getting the ordinary message about "you have followed a link to a page that does not exist in the database", I was presented with MediaWiki:Badtitletext. Same thing with . Any idea what happened? It's not a case of someone accidentally including an illegal character in the URLs; in both cases, when I strip out everything after the title (i.e. &curid= and everything following), I'm presented with a normal this-doesn't-exist page, complete with the deletion log entry and (since I'm an admin) a link to view or restore the deleted edits. Nyttend (talk) 10:19, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Diffs like that don't work for deleted pages because, as I understand it, once a page is deleted each revision stops being 'known' by its revision ID and is instead known by its timestamp. For example, here is a diff from the deleted page that works. Jenks24 (talk) 11:00, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

The diff isn't supposed to work but the error message should be different. It appears to happen when curid (a unique page ID seen on "Page information" in the left pane) is used with the old page ID of a deleted page. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ghazanfar_Ali_Abbasi&diff=681046280 with no curid in the url works (in the sense of saying the page may have been deleted), but https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Waz&curid=47816432 fails (in the sense of giving a confusing message). If the page name is replaced by an existing page then it still fails when curid is for a deleted page: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Example&curid=47816432. curid works when the ID of an existing page is used: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Example&curid=1646233. I don't know whether it's a new issue. A page name and not a curid is usually in url's so it may have gone undetected but Largoplazo posted url's with both page name and curid in #History: flagging speedy deletion template removal when it wasn't removed. I don't know where Largoplazo got the url's but they worked at the time when the page existed. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:06, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

A large curid which has never been used also produces the confusing error message: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Example&curid=99999999. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:17, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

The confusing error message on https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Waz&curid=47816432 is made with MediaWiki:Badtitletext which has been customized at the English Wikipedia and could add mention of this possibility if it's a feature and not a bug that the message is used on non-existing curid. The default message MediaWiki:Badtitletext/qqx is maybe less confusing but still unhelpful. The more helpful message on https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ghazanfar_Ali_Abbasi&diff=681046280 is MediaWiki:Difference-missing-revision which has not been customized so we see the MediaWiki default. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:27, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

• There is a relevant protected edit request at MediaWiki_talk:Badtitletext#Protected_edit_request_on_22_September_2015 — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:15, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Referring to this, I tried to help someone on the Help Desk and what he/she needed help with disappeared. I saw V-T-E with a navbox, and then I didn't. And I went to Temporary test page and the navbox there appeared and then disappeared.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:54, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

@Vchimpanzee: Please try completely clearing your browser's cache one more time, and tell me if that works. --Dan Garry, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 16:45, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Nothing has changed. I can't see tags saying articles need improvement either. Whether there's another step to "completely" clear the cache I don't know, but I followed the directions in the Wikipedia space directions. CTRL and F5, and I cleared my history too.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 18:03, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi! What is the unused_data= parameter (used in {{cite book}}) in the article Ship transport and {{cite web}} in the article Light pollution)? Why does it exist? The Quixotic Potato (talk) 01:02, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

One reason (maybe all) is that it was a way that Citation bot 1 used to handle arguments that did not have a parameter set. A search finds a little over 200 instances in the encyclopaedia. Most of them are empty and can be safely deleted. The non-empty ones could be investigated to see if the arguments are useful and can be salvaged. Jason Quinn (talk) 05:23, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) This common parameter was added by a bot that cleaned up "unnamed parameters" before these CS1 errors existed. You have to look at the data to determine if it should be removed or if a parameter name should be added to it. The parameter is written by a bot to "park" a lone data-value that misses a parameter. - From Category talk:Pages with citations using unsupported parameters#Non-bot-fixable parameters and Template talk:Cite doi/Archive 1#doix?. - 185.108.128.5 (talk) 05:26, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you both! I am running the Database Scanner to find em all. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 05:49, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Now that the new style notifications are back Wikipedia:Notifications is left looking inaccurate and outdated. Bazj (talk) 08:26, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

In a recent MediaWiki update the move interface was slightly changed. However, it seems to have broken {{rename media}}. Previously, clicking on the "perform this move" link in that template would prefill both the new filename and the reason given (if provided). However now only the filename seems to get filled in. BethNaught (talk) 08:48, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, wpReason is now ignored in moves, both for files and other pages. File example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Movepage/File:Turn.jpg?wpNewTitle=File%3ATurn+%28Travis+song%29.jpg&wpReason=More+suitable+name. I assume this is a bug in the move feature. wpReason still works in deletion url's. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:52, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Also mentioned in a comment at phab:T86865, but after it was closed. It hasn't been reopened. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:00, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

phab:T113718 tracks the bug. --202.153.86.194 (talk) 11:55, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Sorry folks, I indeed accidentally broke 'Reason' field prefilling with this patch, and I've only noticed the comments about it today. It's now being handled at the Phabricator task, we'll try to get the fix deployed today (if possible; it's Friday and Friday deployments are generally frowned upon) or on Monday. Please watch the task for updates. Matma Rex talk 12:59, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The issue should be fixed now, Krenair deployed the patch. Matma Rex talk 14:38, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

It seems to work now. (If you try clicking on one of the 'move' links at WP:RMTR it now fills out all the fields in the form correctly, including the Reason field). The file example given above by User:PrimeHunter also expands correctly. The relevant code change must be this one to SpecialMovepage.php. Thanks to everyone. EdJohnston (talk) 15:55, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Yesterday, I move protected the Great Western Railway (train operating company) article. It later became apparent that move protecting the article did not move protect the talk page, which I later move protected too.

Is there any technical reason that move protecting both article and talk page cannot be implemented by the action of move protecting the article? If this is possible, can it be introduced please? Mjroots (talk) 06:44, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

They are distinct pages, and have distinct prot settings. To tie them would mean a change to MediaWiki software, and thus a feature request at phab:. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:47, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

We could have a bot that looks for such pages and move-protects the talk pages. Is there any reason why such a talk page should not be move protected? --Guy Macon (talk) 12:13, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

It might be OK if automatic move protection was part of the software but let's not make a bot run around and add to protection logs unless unwanted talk page moves are a common problem. If move protection is removed from an article then the talk page might keep the protection until a bot catches up. Moves have been used to archive talk pages. It's still possible but generally not done. See Help:Archiving a talk page/Other procedures. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:41, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Leaving a talk page non-move protected meant that an editor who objected to the article being moved was able to move the talk page back to its original title (but not the article). This left us with the situation of article and its talk page being housed at different titles. A bit confusing at best and highly disruptive in any case. Said editor threw a major hissy fit yesterday, moved a lot of talk pages and got himself indeffed. Would be nice if we could avoid this situation occurring again. If it means that Admins have to remember to move protect talk pages when they move protect articles, so be it. Mjroots (talk) 13:04, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

There could be at least note, that talk page won't be move protected. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 16:27, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

• Anyone who,would deliberately do that is editing disruptively. It seems far more likely to me that they are the problem, not the software. Any admin can move that back for you, and warn or block that user as needed. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:43, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The Multimedia, Everything, and Advanced links when searching appear blue even when they were already visited. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:41, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

@GeoffreyT2000: Are you using Chrome? In Chrome they stay blue, but in the latest Firefox and in IE9 they turn purple after you've visited them. It probably has something to do with the a:visited pseudoclass in Chrome. I never see the color of links change after I've visited them in Chrome; even when the website explicitly tells the browser to change the color. Do you have the same problem with all the other links on all other websites? There are many possible fixes, for example you can put the following line in your Wikipedia stylesheet or your Chrome User StyleSheet (Custom.css).

A:visited { color: red !important }

Or you can try using an extension like Change Colors or Stylist. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 05:48, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

@The Quixotic Potato: I use Internet Explorer 11. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 20:07, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

I do not. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 21:14, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi, For the past 4-5 months or so my watchlist has taken a bit longer to load and when it eventually does load the page then jumps and it pretty much causes shit like this, The accidental rollback isn't the first time it's happened and because I've always been used to it loading instantly it's hard to remember to wait,
I haven't cleared my browser since April (or longer!) but pages load fine on other sites as far as I know so I'm not entirely sure if it's my browser/laptop or this place, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 04:00, 25 September 2015 (UTC)