Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 190

I have just used the reference Navy Board Ship Models ^[1] - but the copyright information at the front of the book clearly says "Copyright National Maritime Museum, Greenwich 2018". There seems to be no field for this important piece of information. Have I missed it, or does it not exist? Thanks, ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 15:03, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

It's not important for a citation if you have known publisher and author. Sometimes if you don't have one of those the copyright notice can be used to infer one or the other, but that is not the case here. Izno (talk) 15:37, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Noted - thanks - I'll not worry about it then.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 18:51, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

So I decided to learn Lua, and am banging my head on the screen to get this simple for loop to work here. What am I doing wrong? Cheers. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 09:10, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Looks like you are returning row in the first iteration of the loop. —  Jts1882 | talk  09:51, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

As Jts1882 said. More is needed. Try searching for "mw.html.create" in module namespace. There is a page for Lua questions: WT:Lua. Johnuniq (talk) 09:55, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps you didn't see it working for the 1st row (as I was trying different solutions); I do get the node output. Just don't yet understand why it doesn't loop through all rows in the source table. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 10:23, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

You need to declare a text variable before (outside) the for loop and append each row to it. Return that variable after (outside) the for loop. As of this version, you are returning the first row within the loop, so it only loops once then exits. If you need further help, WT:Lua can give more relevant advice. Certes (talk) 10:45, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Got it! I hadn't realised return would break the loop. Now I'm running into time constraints. So is there really no way of returning results as it goes along, so that we can see how far it goes? I'll ask it at WT:Lua too. Thanks. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 11:33, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Returning from inside a loop without ending execution of the loop requires coroutines in Lua (and other languages), which are disabled in our installation. Izno (talk) 13:14, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Right, I see. It's working now, thanks to Jts1882 and Trappist the monk. It breaks after 210 rows, though, less than I was able to get from a more templaty (albeit static) approach. Any suggestions on what expensive calls to avoid, and make it go longer, or hopefully all the way? — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 22:06, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

There is an time report when you preview User:Guarapiranga/sandbox/4, at the bottom of the page under "parser profiling data". Under that, you see that the module besides time would also hit the "Expensive parser function count" limit, as it is currently at 472 out of 500. That is caused by your usage of mw.title.new():getContent, mw.title.new().exists and Module:Redirect's mw.title.new().isRedirect.--Snævar (talk) 20:06, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Snævar. In the Edit source tab, after preview changes? I don't see it bc the server spits out Error contacting the Parsoid/RESTBase server (HTTP 504) (I get that a lot). — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 01:17, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Guarapiranga If you can't access it in the preview changes window for whatever reason then you can just view the html source of the finished page page and near the bottom you'll find a HTML comment which contains the same information. The first line of the comment is "NewPP limit report". 192.76.8.73 (talk) 01:37, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

 Awesome! Thanks. That's very helpful. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 02:21, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Everyday now I'm receiving the "There have been multiple failed attempts to log in to your account from a new device" notification, Can this notification be disabled as it's now being used by a sock to annoy me. Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 11:41, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Davey2010: Please see Special:Preferences, click on 'notifications', and look for the header "Notify me about these events". There should be a list item: "Failed login attempts". You can customize your notification preferences from there. SQL^{Query me!} 12:07, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much User:SQL, Being honest I wasn't expecting something like that to exist hence why I didn't actively search. Anyway thanks again for your help it's much appreciated :), Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 12:13, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

I've had a request to restore List of firsts in India to an editor's userspace. When I try to restore it with full history, I am consistently getting (over a couple of days of trying) the following error:

Database error: To avoid creating high replication lag, this transaction was aborted because the write duration (6.6316473484039) exceeded the 3 second limit. If you are changing many items at once, try doing multiple smaller operations instead. [802e408b-c4c2-4eff-84ce-bd4d017a979d] 2021-05-26 08:16:25: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBTransactionSizeError"

I can restore a single revision so that the content can be viewed, but the history is lost. Is there currently a server issue (I couldn't find details of any) or can anyone suggest a workaround? The article has a fairly substantial history but nothing out of the ordinary. Thanks. --Michig (talk) 08:22, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Michig, you can split the restore operation into smaller chunks. For example, you could select around 500 edits and then restore them. Then do another 500 or so until they are all restored. If you click one check box and then shift click a check box around a 1/3rd of the way through the Special:Undelete/List of firsts in India page this should restore around 500 at a time. This shouldn't then give the database error as you are splitting the operation into smaller chunks and thus not hitting the 3 second limit on each undelete operation. Moving shouldn't give the database issue as from memory undeletion takes longer than simply moving. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 08:42, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

To save time, I'll restore it. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 08:52, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

 Done the deleted article at List of firsts in India has been moved with all the revisions to User:Dharmadhyaksha/List of firsts in India for development. Should the user decide to not continue working on this, the revisions should be moved back to mainspace at List of firsts in India and then redeleted to ensure that they are left deleted at the right location. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 09:00, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. --Michig (talk) 09:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

• While the advice about splitting large operations into smaller chunks is good advice, another trick to know is when something times out, often the easiest thing to do is just try it again right away. The first aborted attempt may well have pulled the required indexes into cache and a retry will be much faster. But in this case, since you say it's happening consistently, yeah, splitting it into smaller chunks is the right strategy. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:51, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
  • For what it's worth I've found in the last six months or so that for this sort of operation, redoing the undelete doesn't help anywhere near as often as it used to. Graham87 08:40, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
    • Sometimes three attempts works when two fail. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:25, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

I have customized "Number of edits to show in recent changes, page histories, and in logs, by default" in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rc, but Special:WhatLinksHere now always shows 50 items unless the URL has limit=n. I feel like WhatLinksHere respected that setting and showed the custom number of links, or am I misremembering? Nardog (talk) 12:50, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Nardog: I don't recall that, but you could submit a feature request in this case you would be asking for Special:WhatLinksHere to use the rclimit user preference (and then to update the message verbiage at MediaWiki:recentchangescount to advertise it). — xaosflux ^Talk 13:14, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

You can make your own link, e.g. with this in your common JavaScript:

mw.loader.using(['mediawiki.util'], function () {
  var name = mw.config.get( 'wgPageName' ).replace("Special:WhatLinksHere/", "");
  mw.util.addPortletLink(
    'p-tb',
    mw.util.getUrl( 'Special:WhatLinksHere/' ) +  encodeURIComponent(name) + '?limit=100',
    '100 links here',
    'pt-morelinkshere',
    '100 pages containing links to this page',
    null,
    '#t-whatlinkshere'
  );
});

I don't know how to make it read the preference. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:39, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm not asking that, I was just wondering if this was a regression or my brain was failing me. Nardog (talk) 13:43, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

I am a Crosstor and I ask if there is an archive that has been in a recorded state for 3 years now, for example? I want to know how my article once disappeared without a trace from Esperanto Wikipedia. All my searches failed. If I had a fixed condition for 3 years, I would definitely find the article. This is not listed on the standard cancellation discussion board, meaning someone has deleted it arbitrarily and secretly. Sincerely, Crosstor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crosstor (talk • contribs) 13:36, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Crosstor: that doesn't sound like a technical issue - and certainly not one here on the English Wikipedia - I suggest you ask an eowiki admin about your deleted contribution here: w:eo:Vikipedio:Diskutejo/Administrejo. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:52, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

I've installed the script but it doesn't work well. What can I do? Dr Salvus 13:40, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Dr Salvus: it looks like you used User:DannyS712/wikibreak later.js via an import - that script really just needs to be copy-pasted to your common.js; and then you need to set the start and end times. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:46, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Xaosflux, it doesn't work well either Dr Salvus 13:59, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Try it without loading a bunch of other scripts first. If you are on a wikibreak then you shouldn't need them. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:36, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Also the direction say no leading zeroes. (example: 9 - correct, 09 - incorrect, however you used leading zeros. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:51, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Xaosflux,  Done but I don't see any effect Dr Salvus 15:24, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Dr Salvus: As PrimeHunter suggested, you should remove the other scripts you have installed above the wikibreak enforcer (that is, lines 1-10). It is not unlikely that an error in one of the other scripts is preventing the execution of the wikibreak enforcer. EDIT: actually, now that I look at it, I don't know where line 11 comes from, but it looks like it will almost certainly cause an error. You should remove that line. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 15:42, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

You added it here. Maybe you were trying to follow User:Enterprisey/script-installer#Options. You missed the ending semicolon, and OPTION and VALUE are placeholder text to be replaced with the option you want to set a value for. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:19, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

The template Template:United Kingdom topics has a link at the bottom "Index" which links to Index of United Kingdom-related articles. Per WP:NAVNOREDIRECT it should link to Index of United Kingdom–related articles. I would change it, but can't find where it is in the template when I edit. Thanks DuncanHill (talk) 14:22, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

That link is generated in the meta-template {{Country topics}}, which is used by all the "<country> topics" templates. You could change it there (like this), but you'd have to first move all of the index articles that currently use hyphen-minuses to use en dashes (maybe a good idea for consistency's sake, anyway?) or you'd break some, e.g. {{Singapore topics}} (Index of Singapore–related articles doesn't currently exist). – Rummskartoffel (talk • contribs) 15:32, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @Rummskartoffel: Thanks. I can't change it there as it's protected. There are other problems with that template which I discovered recently. I don't know enough about templates or the mysteries of en-dashes to try to sort it out. DuncanHill (talk) 15:46, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

MOS:SUFFIXDASH suggests that the index article should be titled with an en dash when the country contains a space and a hyphen otherwise. The template could be changed to implement that, or we can just live with the redirects. Talk:Index of Ascension Island–related articles is also relevant. Certes (talk) 16:25, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

I made a naïve first attempt at detecting when to use what here, but that currently breaks with at least {{Gambia topics}}. (I think it may be that template's fault, but something would have to be done about it either way before, if at all, these changes could be used.) – Rummskartoffel (talk • contribs) 21:13, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

You've hit one of Wikipedia's more arcane errors. Redirect Index of The Gambia-related articles (hyphen-minus) exists but we need Index of The Gambia–related articles (en dash) because, although the target Index of Gambia-related articles has no space within its country name, its alias does. Certes (talk) 21:37, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Using a redirect would work, but that'd kind of defeat the purpose here. I've noticed, however, that {{Gambia topics}} calls {{Country topics}} with |country=The Gambia instead of |country=Gambia and |prefix=the, so maybe the way to fix this would be to change that instead. – Rummskartoffel (talk • contribs) 22:12, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Module:Redirect can be used to link the target if the parameter is a redirect. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:22, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

@DuncanHill: I've now proposed a change that'll fix this at Template talk:Country topics#WP:NAVNOREDIRECT issues & proposed fixes. I haven't opened an edit request yet because I haven't technically obtained consensus for my changes, but unless somebody complains, I'll do that soon, so this should be done in a few days. – Rummskartoffel (talk • contribs) 16:43, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Is it me, or has the text whitespace around thumbnails gotten bigger suddenly, especially below them:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

Curabitur pretium tincidunt lacus. Nulla gravida orci a odio. Nullam varius, turpis et commodo pharetra, est eros bibendum elit, nec luctus magna felis sollicitudin mauris. Integer in mauris eu nibh euismod gravida. Duis ac tellus et risus vulputate vehicula. Donec lobortis risus a elit. Etiam tempor. Ut ullamcorper, ligula eu tempor congue, eros est euismod turpis, id tincidunt sapien risus a quam. Maecenas fermentum consequat mi. Donec fermentum. Pellentesque malesuada nulla a mi. Duis sapien sem, aliquet nec, commodo eget, consequat quis, neque. Aliquam faucibus, elit ut dictum aliquet, felis nisl adipiscing sapien, sed malesuada diam lacus eget erat. Cras mollis scelerisque nunc. Nullam arcu. Aliquam consequat. Curabitur augue lorem, dapibus quis, laoreet et, pretium ac, nisi. Aenean magna nisl, mollis quis, molestie eu, feugiat in, orci. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. (Hohum ^@) 01:22, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm guessing this is one of those "perennial" questions. Could someone point me to some previous discussions that ask about separating article/user pages from the talk pages for the watchlist. Example: I want to watchlist John Wayne, but don't want to see the talk page show up in my watchlist (or the reverse). I had asked on VP talk, but it seems to be rather sparsely tended to at the moment. If this belongs at a different section, (Idea lab, proposal, etc.), feel free to move. thanks. — Ched (talk) 07:39, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Ched: there is no option that we could do here on the English Wikipedia for this, it would require upstream software work. You could refresh and reopen phab:T12175 (from 2007) about this to at the least get a more documented "Decline" response! — xaosflux ^Talk 10:46, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Ched: And of course there is always the workaround of Special:Relatedchanges: I use Special:Relatedchanges/User:Kusma/c to make sure edits to the articles I actually care about don't get lost in my (far too long and drama infested) watchlist. —Kusma (Кузьма · कुस्मा · 𐌺) 12:24, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Kusma: That's bloody brilliant! I had no idea that was an option. Maybe I should spend some time looking at the Special pages. Thanks a bundle,— JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 12:35, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

First, thank you very much for the prompt responses. I had completely forgotten about that related changes option. Kusma, thank you for that memory jog - I think it's been 10 years since I heard about it (and never did act on it). It is most definitely something I'm going to set up in the next few days. I agree with John - "bloody brilliant". One thing I'll check is to see if the {{noping}} works in that setup. Xaosflux, thank you for finding that (I honestly don't know how some folks find things so old and obscure sometimes). I bookmarked it, and may dig up that "wish list" thing that meta/media has, and add/request it to something for developers to work on. TY again. — Ched (talk) 15:17, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

If you don't add a signature, there won't be any pings even if you link a user name. Johnuniq (talk) 03:05, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

I copied {{Coord}} to {{X24}}, then from my user sandbox invoked

{{X24|57|18|22|N|4|27|32|W|display=inline}}
{{Coord|57|18|22|N|4|27|32|W|display=inline}}

The call to {{tl:X24}} results in "Coordinates: Missing latitude", even though the two templates should do the same. Any idea why this is happening? Thnx, Ponor (talk) 06:47, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

I believe it's because {{Template:Coord}} is specifically identified as a wrapper template in Module:Coordinates (line 54). See Module:Arguments § Wrappers for an explanation. Basically, to get it to work like you want, you'd have to add {{Template:X24}} to the wrappers list in Module:Coordinates  — sbb (talk) 07:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

... that is to say, as currently coded, Module:Coordinates can only be invoked like that from {{Template:Coord}}  — sbb (talk) 07:35, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2021_May_7#Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Eagle_(Poland) ended with permission to recreate the category. It can include 100+ entries from which it was removed in the past. Is there any way to automatically repopulate it, reverting the old removal of it from those articles post-deletion? Another workaround would be to just add it to articles it is present in on Polish Wikipedia and that have equivalents on English. I am certainly not looking forward to manually adding it to applicable articles... help! :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:53, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

@Piotrus: no, the only way to "populate a category" is to make an edit to each page that will be in it. This could be semi-automated with tools if there is a specific list of pages known. — xaosflux ^Talk 11:08, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

@Piotrus, you could go and check who did the removal and work from their contributions list. Might be possible to use AWB to turn that into a list of pages that AWB then can add the categories to (haven't used AWB in 10 years, though). —Kusma (talk) 11:29, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

I've found the bot that did the removal work and have managed to create a list of all the articles it was removed from (See wall of text here). If you click edit, the list will be easier to read. Check it over and if it looks OK, make a request at WP:AWBTASKS for someone to use the list to restore the category to those articles. - X201 (talk) 11:43, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Forgot to ping @Piotrus: - X201 (talk) 11:47, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Much appreciated! It looks correct. I made a request here, hope it is not confusing. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:51, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello. Due to a problem with Twinkle, I have nominated the same article three times. I fixed the problem.
However, I would like an admin to merge my three AfD into one, since obviously there is two too many. Thanks in advance! Veverve (talk) 10:38, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

@Veverve: you could remove the duplicate nominations from the list and tag them as {{db-error}}. Elli (talk | contribs) 10:42, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

@Elli: thanks! Veverve (talk) 10:51, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello everyone,
My apologies for writing that on en.wiki, but I don't know which Wikimedia-website to consult for this kind of problem. The wa.wiki main page is playing up right now for unknown reasons. I precise that nobody has modified the "main page" (which is, of course, protected) nor a template/module related to. Wa.wiki uses the same module of main page as wa.wiktionary. However, the main page of wa.wiktionary seems still working correctly.
Thank you in advance for your help,
--Èl-Gueuye-Noere (talk) 18:31, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Do you mean wa:? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:08, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it was this one. I finally found the bug, it was a thing like this : < / div>, which added itself. That's why, the main page bugged without anyone nor any bot modifies it. I don't know if this kind of bugs often happens. I was afraid that something worse had happened. --Èl-Gueuye-Noere (talk) 19:23, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

The </div> is the closing tag of a div element. Like the vast majority of HTML elements (there are very few exceptions), each opening <div> tag must have a balancing closing </div> tag. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:59, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Is there a script that excludes dab pages from the maroon-coloured substub formatting which can be enabled in Special:Preferences under "Appearance"? Daß Wölf 14:48, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

$(".stub.mw-disambig").removeClass("stub"); should do the trick, I think. Dunno if there's a better way, though. – Rummskartoffel (talk • contribs) 20:11, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

As an IP, try to create a category (or follow a red link). You are not allowed and the banner points to Wikipedia:Article_wizard/Category, which redirects to Wikipedia:Article_wizard, which does not let you create Draft:Category:... because of the namespace, and instructs you to follow the category's red link, so you are stuck in a loop. --62.98.124.182 (talk) 20:38, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Hmm, looks like this is by design via the title blacklist. I've taken out the prompt to direct IP editors to the ACW for redlinked categories. You can follow up at Wikipedia talk:Article wizard if you would like to discuss if this should be redesigned. — xaosflux ^Talk 21:08, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Xaosflux There should probably be a link pointing to Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Redirects and categories instead. 192.76.8.73 (talk) 21:12, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

192, sounds good - I updated the prompt again to direct ip's on redlinked cat's to that page. — xaosflux ^Talk 21:19, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

At The Gambia at the Commonwealth Games there is a category displaying at the top of the page which must be transcluding from some template or another (possibly Template:Infobox country at games?). No clue how to fix it, so I'm leaving it here for Wikipedia's technical A-Team. -- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 01:37, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Pretty sure all it needed was |games=Commonwealth Games in the infobox (just judging by comparison with Canada at the Commonwealth Games for instance. I added the parameter to the infobox.  — sbb (talk) 01:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you kindly!-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 01:59, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Catalogue_of_CSS_classes#%40keyframes Harsh Rathod Poke me! 08:18, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

That's WT:Catalogue of CSS classes#@keyframes where Harshrathod50 asks if they can use @keyframes for animation. Johnuniq (talk) 09:23, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Consider the pages Wikipedia:VPT and Wikipedia:Village Pump (technical). Here, Wikipedia:VPT actually redirects to Wikipedia:Village Pump (technical). My question is, is there any method by which I can identify all the pages which contains the text Wikipedia:VPT that is actually a redirect? I have checked What Links Here, but its not a solution as it contains links with both the source and redirected title. Adithyak1997 (talk) 10:28, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes, on the redirect's page itself (not on this page), check what links. Gonnym (talk) 10:40, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Any reason it no longer links to the bock log? ——Serial 09:40, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

@Serial Number 54129: this isn't part of the English Wikipedia, you can follow up here according the links on the tool: mw:Talk:XTools. — xaosflux ^Talk 11:06, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

@Serial Number 54129 Fixed. — MusikAnimal ^talk 20:21, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

@MusikAnimal: thanks very much for being so helpful! 👍 I appreciate you not sending me offsite over something so small. Vive NOT:BURO! All the best. ——Serial 10:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

This blog post is written in the context of local government in the UK, but the issues are generic. What can we do, as editors, to improve our carbon footprint while still serving our mission? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:25, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Save changes only where necessary, instead of (as some people do) making one big edit followed by four or five small ones the only purpose of which is to correct the spelling and grammar. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:36, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

As editors, not much. As readers, use black backgrounds. As people, no more or less than any other person. Reduce, reuse, recycle. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:38, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

AIUI, the "black background" suggestion only reduces carbon emissons for some types of monitor, not all. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:23, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

• I would like to see WMF publish statistics on power consumption. Big data center operators like Google, Facebook and AWS put a lot of effort into reducing power consumption. From their point of view, it's about saving money, but reducing the electric bill and reducing the carbon footprint are closely aligned. WMF publishes some stats, but I don't see anything about power consumption. Computing and publishing J/view (Joules consumed per page view) would be a good place to start. What you'd like to see is a steady decline over time. Since WMF doesn't run their own data centers, this can get a bit messy to figure out, but you gotta start somewhere. -- RoySmith (talk) 21:13, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

  There's some numbers at meta:Sustainability#Wikimedia Foundation sustainability metrics. See also the annual report at File:2019 Wikimedia Foundation Annual Carbon Footprint Report - June 30, 2020.pdf. The 2020 report I take it is not available yet, but it would be very misleading anyway because there was no travel. — MusikAnimal ^talk 21:58, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

  You might be interested in m:Sustainability which has lots of data and reports on this. For example in 2019 data centres were reported to be using an average of 10.78 kWh and emitting 2.3 kg of CO2 equivalent per million pageviews. It's also worth noting that a significant part of Wikimedia's carbon footprint comes from staff and community travel to conferences such as Wikimania. Obviously this past year will have seen a significant cut in that! I'm interested to see how well Wikimania 2021 works as a fully remote event, and how we can increase remote participation at events in future. the wub "?!" 22:02, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

See meta:Sustainability, meta:Wikimedians for Sustainable Development and meta:Sustainability Initiative. — MusikAnimal ^talk 21:59, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm familiar with both, but I don't see whether either addresses the issue of what can be done by editors. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:25, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

What parameters are supported by Template:Cite sign? We are told on the page to copy a blank version, but there is no blank version to copy. Pinging @Tyrone Madera: for courtesy as they asked the same question. DuncanHill (talk) 15:22, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Looks like Pigsonthewing already fixed the documentation. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 16:06, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

At https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Xaosflux/sandbox101&diff=prev&oldid=1018149200 (and any other suppressed revision), when you press on the top revision text (that says Revision as of 14:33, 16 April 2021 in this one), it says that this page revision has been removed from the public archives. Details can be found in the deletion log for this page. It should say that "this page revision has been suppressed", as it is oversight, not revision deletion. aeschylus (talk) 12:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

It seems like that diff was also revdeleted. Not sure if this is a bug or just a programming choice. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 12:55, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Ivanvector, it wasn't as I saw one suppressed one and one deleted one, and the deletion log only shows one revision being deleted, so it wasn't revdeleted first. aeschylus (talk) 16:45, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

This is MediaWiki:Rev-deleted-text-permission. Has this revision been first revdeleted and then suppressed? There is a log entry in the deletion log, so it doesn't seem totally wrong to point readers there. —Kusma (talk) 13:00, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

So, depending on your access levels you can come upon: MediaWiki:rev-deleted-text-unhide (for revdel only if you are an admin), MediaWiki:rev-suppressed-text-unhide (for os if you are an os), but if you have no access you do end up at MediaWiki:rev-deleted-text-permission. Now you end up at that last on regardless of why you can't see it and in the overwhelming majority of cases it will be because of normal deletion. The default prompt for that message is:

This page revision has been <strong>deleted</strong>.
Details can be found in the [{{fullurl:{{#Special:Log}}/delete|page=$1}} deletion log].

So we haven't materially changed the message and it doesn't have support for a conditional variable based on if suppression is also applied, and likely doesn't really need it for non-administrators - if you want support for that you would need to file a software request on that page logic. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:49, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Also, that was a revision suppression, not a 'page suppression'. On an actual page suppression, non-logged in users will see no message such as in User:Xaosflux/sandbox105 (which is page suppressed). — xaosflux ^Talk 13:52, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Xaosflux, so how do you file a software request and is it likely to be accepted? aeschylus (talk) 16:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Aeschylus: WP:BUG has the link to Phabricator. It is likely to go in to the pile of not-declined-but-no-one-will-work-it on like other very low priority things that have an over 10 year backlog - as you don't seem to have identified something that is going to impact readers or prevent editors from working. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:06, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

There seems to be an image caption positioning issue in {{Infobox Site of Special Scientific Interest}} which can be seen in Bewick and Beanley Moors, and which is that when there is also a locator map, the caption for the image is beneath the map, rather than beneath the image. The dissociation of image and caption seems wrong and unhelpful. Grateful if this issue could be given some attention. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:34, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Fixed in the article by using the right parameter. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:50, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello, I just found User talk:2600:8800:0:0:0:0:0:0/32 and I have to wonder: is this even a thing? Will it work as intended? Will every IPv6 user in that 32-bit netblock be notified of new messages here? What about IPv6 netblocks? Can I leave a message for User talk:128.65.0.0/16 as well? Or is this just a simple user error? Elizium23 (talk) 01:07, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

No, range talk pages do not affect anyone. Izno (talk) 03:37, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

For me, tables with the class "mw-collapsible" or using {{collapse}} (or similar), instead of having a [hide] link, it appears like this: [hide]. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 21:12, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: Does it work with safemode? Does it work if you log out? PrimeHunter (talk) 21:20, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter Nevermind, this seems to be a.problem with User:Awesome Aasim/addmylinks. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 21:34, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl Works for me. Can you maybe open the developer console to see if there are any problems loading any of the scripts? Anything with "ERROR" or whatnot. Aasim (talk) 23:11, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Awesome Aasim I don't get any JavaScript error messages. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 07:12, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl Do the tables still collapse? Maybe if you paste a link to a screencast showing the problem I could maybe diagnose it. Aasim (talk) 07:27, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

It is more than likely you have a conflicting set of scripts as well... would like to see a screencast or whatever... it will help me identify the problem. Aasim (talk) 07:28, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@Awesome Aasim the tables cannot (un)collapse, and sometimes appear collapsed, sometimes uncollapsed. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 09:50, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

It may be related to User:TheDJ/mobileVector.css. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 10:36, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm an avid user of Writ Keeper's excellent In-place diffs, especially in the watchlist, so I don't always need to open the changed page. It'd be great if I could cross that off the watchlist rather than keep count of everything I already looked at before clicking "mark all as read". I see this was proposed 10 years ago but couldn't find the solution. I would've thought that bullet in the watchlist could work as read/unread toggle, as it does under notifications. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 00:32, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Visit the page. Izno (talk) 00:40, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

phab:T92947 is about the inverse of this, but has some suggestions that this could possible be done with API calls, if so a userscript could be written for it. — xaosflux ^Talk 01:18, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, found one that does it. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 01:55, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

But only in the non-Java interface 😕 — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 08:21, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm, well, it should be pretty simple to make a quick script that will do this on the standard watchlist; I'll whip something up uf you're still interested. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 08:32, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@Guarapiranga: if you need it, I just made User:Writ_Keeper/Scripts/watchlistToggle.js. Should add a link to the "diff | hist" links on the watchlist to remove an item from your watchlist (and will allow you to re-add it, as well). LMK if any issues, as always. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 09:31, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

 Awesome!, Writ_Keeper It works. How does one unread the revision though (if that's what you meant)? When I click the link/button, it disappears (but not the entry). The script works well enough, but if you feel like polishing it, I'd suggest striking through the entry marked as read (and unstriking if you manage to mark it as unread), and—if at all possible—using the far left bullet as button instead of adding another, like UncleDouggie did. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 09:47, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

No, wait, sorry, that was listPageOptions I still had installed. Turns out it works in the Java interface. But having uninstalled it, I don't see your links, Writ Keeper. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 10:02, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm, do you see any errors in your browser console? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 10:10, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I'll do a proper debug when I'm back at the desktop, but I'm happy to report that it's working on my mobile (and also that my suggestion of using the far left bullet wouldn't work on mobile as it's not there). Thanks. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 10:59, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm used to seeing notices about "configured pending changes settings" in history, but never boxed up and presented at the bottom of the article page below the categories like this. So why does Trypophobia have a box echoing a revision made by Callanecc in 2017, and formatted just like a review pending changes input box, with a button for me to Unaccept their years-ago edit? Was this part of the release that gave us the mystery-font size issue?

<div id='mw-data-after-content'>
	<form method="post" action="/w/index.php?title=Special:RevisionReview&amp;action=submit" id="mw-fr-reviewform">
<fieldset class="flaggedrevs_reviewform noprint">
<legend id="mw-fr-reviewformlegend"><strong>Re-review this revision</strong></legend>
<p></p>
<p class="fr-rating-controls" id="fr-rating-controls">
<span id="mw-fr-ratingselects" class="fr-rating-options">

</span>
<span id="mw-fr-confirmreview">
<label for="mw-fr-commentbox" class="fr-comment-box">Comment:</label> <input name="wpReason" size="40" value="" id="mw-fr-commentbox" maxlength="500" class="fr-comment-box" /><input name="wpApprove" id="mw-fr-submit-accept" accesskey="s" title="Mark this revision as accepted [s]" disabled="" type="submit" value="Accept revision"/> <input name="wpUnapprove" id="mw-fr-submit-unaccept" title="Revoke acceptance of this revision by marking it as unaccepted" style="" type="submit" value="Unaccept revision"/>
<script>var jsReviewNeedsChange = 0;</script> <span id="mw-fr-logtoggle" class="fr-logtoggle-excerpt" style="display:none;">(<a class="fr-toggle-text" title="Toggle display of the latest entry in the pending changes protection log">hide pending changes protection log</a>)</span></span>
<div id="mw-fr-logexcerpt"><ul class='mw-logevent-loglines'>
<li data-mw-logid="86418828" data-mw-logaction="stable/config" class="mw-logline-stable"> <a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&amp;logid=86418828" title="Special:Log">05:02, October 21, 2017</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Callanecc" class="mw-userlink" title="User:Callanecc"><bdi>Callanecc</bdi></a> configured pending changes settings for <a href="/wiki/Trypophobia" title="Trypophobia">Trypophobia</a> [Auto-accept: require &quot;autoconfirmed&quot; permission] <span class="comment">(Persistent addition of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INTREF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INTREF">unsourced or poorly sourced content</a>)</span> <span class="mw-logevent-actionlink">(<a href="/w/index.php?title=Trypophobia&amp;action=history&amp;offset=20171021050237" title="Trypophobia">hist</a>)</span> </li>
</ul>
<a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&amp;page=Trypophobia&amp;type=stable" title="Special:Log">View full log</a></div></p>
<input type="hidden" value="Special:RevisionReview" name="title"/>
<input type="hidden" value="Trypophobia" name="target"/>
<input id="mw-fr-input-refid" type="hidden" value="0" name="refid"/>
<input id="mw-fr-input-oldid" type="hidden" value="1026062748" name="oldid"/>
<input type="hidden" value="3928ec26fb9fdebbabbead26754c8eaf60b470c3+\" name="wpEditToken"/>
<input id="mw-fr-input-changetime" type="hidden" value="20210531050433" name="changetime"/>
<input id="mw-fr-user-reviewing" type="hidden" value="0" name="userreviewing"/>
<input type="hidden" name="templateParams"/>
<input type="hidden" name="imageParams"/>
<input type="hidden" name="fileVersion"/>
<input type="hidden" value="d9d7ef2024098573ee57c1de169900a8" name="validatedParams"/>
</fieldset>
</form>
<div class="read-more-container"></div>
</div>

Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 05:20, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I think it's not about unaccepting Callanecc's revision, but your latest auto-accepted revision? (It seems to happen for all Special:StablePages) But I agree that this interface should not be on the article page, especially as it contains the exact wording of the log entry, which isn't usually written for the general public. There seems to be a "hide" link, but I don't know whether that's admin only and when we should use it. Are there instructions for this anywhere? Wikipedia:Pending changes doesn't help all that much. (I hate pending changes). —Kusma (talk) 09:45, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Thinking about it, I can't see a good reason to unaccept a page without looking at the page history. Why would you unaccept a revision without checking whether the previous revision is any better? This interface should not be visible on the page itself. —Kusma (talk) 11:19, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Just curious... If importScript is deprecated and mw.loader should be used instead,^[1] why is Script Installer still using importScript? Is it just a string replace in the script, or does it require some transition? Cheers. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 00:19, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Ping to primary maintainer: @Enterprisey: — xaosflux ^Talk 00:38, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

What are the advantages of using mw.loader over importScript? Would it cause any issue if all user scripts were mass-updated to use mw.loader over importScript? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 01:10, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

importScript is just easier to use. Also see T36958, which is what we're waiting for before actually hard deprecating importScript and telling people to move away. Legoktm (talk) 02:32, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

I don't see that task as blocking it at all? It's already 'hard deprecated' given that it emits console warnings. Izno (talk) 18:14, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T27845#297475 made it click for me. Enterprisey (talk!) 06:43, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

mw.loader is better because it's async, but as Legoktm alluded to, it has a dreadful "user interface" (i.e. you have to give it a full URL, which is difficult to do by hand). I guess that's not as important of a concern these days. But I'd still like it if we created an async function with importScript's "user interface" - i.e. you'd only need to give it a page name - and migrated everyone to that. Now, to actually answer the question, I figure switching Script Installer over might as well be done together with any migration we do in the future (which will also involve changing the docs, other script tooling, etc). Enterprisey (talk!) 05:20, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Enterprisey I'm having trouble understanding why people are saying importScript is not async. Multiple importScript calls do take place simultaneously. So what's the difference? – SD0001 (talk) 06:58, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

We had a related discussion pretty recently at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 187#"An attempt to load a user script has failed". You may find it generally illuminating. Izno (talk) 18:18, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

If anyone's interested, I've got a way of loading user scripts that's much superior to the existing methods, see User:SD0001/Making user scripts load faster. It speeds up script loads 100x (that is, if you have a below-average connection like mine) by caching them. Enjoy! – SD0001 (talk) 06:55, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I'll bite. I'll let you know if it doesn't live up to that 100x faster promise ;D — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 17:38, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok, First thing that it did, having installed it through my mobile, was to make more scripts run on it (before only the first one or few were, I think). — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 21:40, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Second, it has some sort of conflict with RedWarn. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 22:45, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

I disabled RedWarn, and kept your script cache. It does load scripts a lot faster than without. Can't it be made into and loaded as a common user script, SD0001? — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 23:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Guarapiranga The way it works is by over-writing the definitions of importScript, mw.loader, etc. So if it's loaded as a user script, the network requests for fetching other scripts would have already started by the time this one loads, so it'll have no effect ;) But you use the minimised version instead to save lines in common.js (I updated the page to that effect). – SD0001 (talk) 16:22, 31 May 2021 (UTC) 👍 ‍

@SD0001: Have you tested that? According to the MDN, eval() is also slower than the alternatives, since it has to invoke the JavaScript interpreter, while many other constructs are optimized by modern JS engines.. I don't think new Blob() has that problem, though of course both will raise the blood pressure of anyone looking at your code. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 20:03, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

I think the bottleneck here would be the fetch rather than the execution, esp. for those of us on slow connections. A normal fetch with index.php takes 300-500 ms for me. But with caching, most of the time the file gets retrieved from Chrome's disk cache which is like 3-5 ms. I suspect modern browsers execute code very fast, so the minor slowness of eval shouldn't be an issue. – SD0001 (talk) 04:52, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

SD0001, I tried it and then removed it as it caused errors when using User:GeneralNotability/spihelper. It seemed to remove the ability for the script to call one of it's functions. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 16:44, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Dreamy Jazz fixed; that script was trying to import something from Special:MyPage! Though I still don't know what is the issue with RedWarn. – SD0001 (talk) 17:28, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

I've brought this up at Template talk:Install user script as well and have been shot down. I personally don't see any reason why either that template or the Script Installer need to be installing non-https scripts or installing scripts via a relative path, so would think both could be migrated to use ResourceLoader mw.loader.load. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 16:36, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Choice of importScript vs mw.loader.load has nothing to do with https or ResourceLoader. – SD0001 (talk) 17:37, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

The excuse used at the fab ticket linked above (T27845) for why mw.loader.load was not a good substitute for importscript was that you had to specify whether or not to use https when using mw.loader.load. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 01:37, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

FYI

 – You can use

function importScript(location) {
	mw.loader.load( '/w/index.php?action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&title=' + location);
}

― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 10:29, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: At the top of common.js? What about bcache=1 and maxage=86400; are they useful? — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 11:15, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@Guarapiranga this code isn't mine, I just found it in my commons.js, and I can't remember where I got it from. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 11:25, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: Looks deceptively simple to redefine importScript, but I can't see why it shouldn't work. Good one! — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 11:54, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

This basically, though it should be encodeURIComponent(location) instead of just location (otherwise it'll fail on loading pages with names having a space in them). – SD0001 (talk) 16:27, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

17:04, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm just a poor back-end server guy, who occasionally dabbles in javascript, usually with sub-standard results. I've got two scripts (source here) I've written which appear to have a race condition which sometimes causes them to run twice. I load them from User:RoySmith/common.js. The first:

mw.loader.load('https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/spi-tools-dev/spi/tag-check.js');

does some DOM-manipulation to {{checkuser}} templates to add an indication of how the account is tagged. That's the "M" in the yellow box in the screenshot. The other ones:

mw.loader.load('https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/spi-tools-dev/spi/spi-tools.js');
mw.loader.load('https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/spi-tools-dev/spi/spi-tools-dev.js'); 

add the "SPI Tools" and "SPI Tools (dev)" items to the More menu. Maybe once in 50 page loads, one or both of them runs twice. The screen shot shows an example where they *both* ran twice. Anybody know what's going on? I assume this is not using the mw.hook() function correctly? Perhaps wikipage.content is the wrong event to be using? -- RoySmith (talk) 16:24, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

If the script only needs to run once per page load, you're better off using $.ready.then(function() {...}); rather than hooking on wikipage.content – which is meant for scripts that need to run following changes to the DOM caused by other javascripts running on the page. – SD0001 (talk) 16:37, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

SD0001, Thanks. Now I just need to figure out how $.ready.then() differs from the

$(function() {
  // Handler for .ready() called.
});

version show in the jquery docs. -- RoySmith (talk) 18:14, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

It doesn't differ. $.ready is documented here. No idea why jQuery has so many syntaxes for the same functionality. – SD0001 (talk) 20:08, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

SD0001, Well, there's only so many pieces of punctuation. It would be a shame if they didn't make every possible combination do something, wouldn't it? Thanks again for your help. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:02, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I am seeing hundreds of error messages on COVID-19 pandemic in India. The error is in bold and red "Lua error: not enough memory." When trying to edit the page, more errors of the same kind appear. (Also seeing the same at the commons category for the same article "Category:COVID-19 pandemic in India") DTM (talk) 12:45, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

The article needs to be made smaller and/or less complex. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:08, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

But there are larger articles which do not face the same problem? DTM (talk) 13:21, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

It's not about the raw size of the article, but rather the amount of time the various modules transcluded onto the page take to execute. You might get some joy asking here for assistance streamlining things. firefly ( t · c ) 13:23, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

TheDJ, Firefly, alright. The transclusions make sense. Thanks. DTM (talk) 13:26, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

This doesn't seem to be a Lua problem or due to article size. The error was introduced by this edit on 24 May 2021. The critical part was removing {{Update|date=April 2021}}. I've put it back and all those Lua errors they have gone. They can also be removed by removing the date preference template so there is some weird interaction of the templates above the infobox. I've no idea why. I've left the unnecessary update template as I think that is better than all the red lua errors, but I have no clue about how to fix the problem. —  Jts1882 | talk  16:55, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Jts1882, Wow, this is really weird. I copied the entire article to my sandbox to hack on it, and the Lua errors went away. This led me to wonder if it only happens in mainspace, so I copied it again to COVID-19 pandemic in India/temp and don't get the Lua errors there either. Bizarre. -- RoySmith (talk) 18:28, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

RoySmith I suspect that what is happening here is that some template on the page is pulling information from the associated wikidata entry, which is causing the page to go over the memory limit as the wikidata entry as it stands is a 3MB page with several thousand entries. This would explain why the issue only shows up on the main article - it's the only one linked to the wikidata entry. I can't see what template could be causing it though - the only template I can see on the page that is reading from wikidata is Template:Official website. 192.76.8.73 (talk) 01:27, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

That's definitely it: the /temp page (with no Wikidata item) has Lua memory usage 10,553,034 bytes, the current main page has memory usage 51,449,827 bytes (only a tiny amount less than the limit), and if I preview removing the call to {{coord}} (which relies on Wikidata to populate some tracking categories) from the infobox, it reduces the memory usage to 28,859,423 bytes, and previewing removing the call to {{official website}} in addition reduces the memory usage to 11,431,012 bytes. Memory usage accounting isn't consistent from one parse to another, so that can be considered equivalent to the /temp page. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:47, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

My goodness, what a mess of a situation... this makes me kinda dread how Wikidata is fetched... Elli (talk | contribs) 01:54, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Elli Fetching properties from Wikidata is a mess. If you use a function like mw.wikibase.getBestStatements() which is designed to just retrieve a selection of values from a single property of an item the way it works is by first loading the entire item into lua memory, then it filters the properties to keep the single one you asked it to retrieve in the first place. There was a Phabricator task a couple of years back asking for this to be optimised to stop it from loading entire items when you were just accessing data for a single property, but it was closed with no action, on what appears to be the basis that "It's always worked that way". 192.76.8.73 (talk) 02:30, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Tracking down and fixing problems with Lua/Wikidata interaction is the kind of thing that RexxS (talk · contribs) excels in. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:24, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Last time I looked into it, I thought that it would be helpful if the template call would specify how many statements it is expecting. If there is only one needed, then the module can skip an loop looking for every one under an specified property.--Snævar (talk) 20:15, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Snævar, that wouldn't make much if any difference to the memory usage - the fundamental problem is that there is no way to only access specific properties of an item on wikidata - the only way you can access information is to load the entire page into local lua memory, then sort it to pull out what you asked for, which is why cross checking an official website parameter uses 17MB of memory - it has to load the entire 3MB wikidata page into memory then run a sorting algorithm on it. As I see it there are 3 ways to deal with this issue

1. The developers rework the wikibase/Scribunto intergration. Facilities to search for and retrieve individual properties are built into wikibase, so that accessing a property in Lua returns only the value of that property to Lua memory.
2. We remove wikidata integration from any pages where the wikidata page gets excessivley large.
3. Wikidata splits their large entries into several smaller pages, e.g. "Covid 19 deaths in India" "Covid 19 vaccine rollout in India" "Covid 19 cases in India"

This first of these would require significant development time, the second would remove functionality from articles and the third would kind of defeat the purpose of a centralised database. I think for this specific case the best immediate solution is 2, as the wikidata integration isn't really doing anything important (it's only cross-checking a website and populating some categories) but as a long term solution we should probably be looking towards option 1. 192.76.8.73 (talk) 15:44, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

No, it's not quite that, as there are various other uses of Wikidata that don't consume appreciable memory, such as the {{short description}} (via code in Module:SDcat using mw.wikibase.getDescription) and {{commons category}} (via code in Module:WikidataIB using mw.wikibase.getBestStatements). It appears the tracking in Module:Coordinates could be easily re-written to use that function and presumably not use a huge amount of memory, but the same thing does not apply to Module:Official website, which uses some fancy logic to prefer English-language websites over websites in other languages. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:18, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Pppery I don't think either of those templates are actually accessing wikidata properties in normal usage. Short descriptions aren't stored as properties, they're stored as labels and are kept in a separate "terms table" which can be loaded independently of the rest of wikidata entry. Module:WikidataIB doesn't use getBestStatements by default - it first looks for commons categories in the interlanguage links section of the wikidata which again are stored in a different format and can be loaded independently of the main wikidata entry. Phab:T198116 includes a respones from hoo (who wrote the getBestStatements function) which seems to confirm that accessing a wikidata property loads the entire entry into memory. 192.76.8.73 (talk) 17:37, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

COVID-19 pandemic in India (Q84055514) doesn't have a sitelink to commons, so {{commons category}} must be fetching the category via topic's main category (P910). Valid point about {{short description}}/Module:SDcat, though. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:49, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Re 192.76.8.73: I dodged that point previously just not to sound rude. The reality is that you are confusing mw.wikibase.getEntity():getBestStatements() with mw.wikibase.getBestStatements(). The former will load the whole item into memory, but the latter will not. Actually, I find that the dev in the bug actually tried to explain this without succeeding. The dev, Hoo, even says in the bug that it "get[s] just the statements we care about". Try several methods on the wiki and see it for yourself, verifying it with "parser profiling data" in the edit window, instead of only reading about it. If there really was no performance improvement possible then I never would have been able to improve the performance of is:Module:WD-gildi, see how the module disappears from this dashboard. Sure, it is an timing improvement, but that still shows my point.--Snævar (talk) 06:50, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

In this case I don't think Wikidata is the cause. It's something to do with an interaction with the four templates above the infobox: {{pp-semi-indef}}, {{Update}}, {{EngvarB}}, and {{Use dmy dates}}. Remove all of them and the page loads without the Lua errors. It was the removal of {{Update}} that revealed all the Lua errors. I put it back to remove the errors but it is unsatisfactory to have template saying the page needs updating when it has been updates. The other templates are required so removing them is not a solution. I've tried various combinations and cannot see which template is the problem. There seems to be a strange interaction, but its beyond me. —  Jts1882 | talk  14:30, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

It definitely has to do with Wikidata. I suspect the reason why the templates above the infobox are behaving the way they are is code in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration that parses the page to determine what date format to use, but can't explain exactly why that occurs. Here's a slightly better way to get the page below the memory limit: change |display=inline,title to |display=inline in the {{coordinates}} template (and remove the {{update}}). This removes the coordinates at the top of the page, but it's not clear they should be there in the first place since the pandemic isn't definable to one location. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:16, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I found out that the coord transclusion in the infobox under "first case" uses 22 millon bytes in memory. Submitted an fix in Module:Coordinates which reduces wikidata memory usage and frees the majority of that memory. Tested that by previewing the COVID India page with the Coordinates sandbox, which includes the fix.--Snævar (talk) 07:24, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Great work! Of course I didn't believe that was possible but checking shows that the current article uses 51 MB of Lua memory, and removing the single {{coord}} ({{coord|10.5276|76.2144|format=dms|type:village_region:IN|display=inline,title}}) reduced that to 29 MB. Johnuniq (talk) 07:57, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Just removing "title" from the |display=inline,title in {{coord}} as Pppery suggested produces the same reduction from 51MB to 29MB. And as the location applies to the first covid case and not the whole article on covid in India, I don't think it should be there.

That difference between mw.wikibase.getEntity():getBestStatements() and mw.wikibase.getBestStatements() and use of mw.wikibase.entityExists(qid) is worth remembering. —  Jts1882 | talk  08:32, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

I wanted to see a full list of all most imported scripts with descriptions and last modified dates, not just the ones selected in WP:USL, and not separated in groups, so, after quite a bit of help here, there and everywhere, I got what I wanted here: Wikipedia:User scripts/List/sandbox. Feel free to improve it, if you have any ideas (others have already done so). — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 01:21, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

The "Description" column is... very iffy. I don't know where you get it from, but you should take it from {{Infobox user script}} where possible. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 02:26, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

It is. Scripts description pages—when they exist!—are all over the place; some use {{Infobox user script}}, many don't. Some use their own templates, others just simply write some body text. Having said that, I've just now endeavoured to include descriptions in user script infoboxes. Either way, instead of getting it precisely right, the description there is meant to give a first brush of what the script is about before one clicks through to the description page (through the → link), to investigate what it's all about. An alternative is the manual description in WP:USL. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 02:47, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Well, I know that User:Headbomb/unreliable has the infobox, but the description from the infobox isn't used, and instead uses the first section where there are install instructions. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 03:17, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I see things have been updated. There's a strange bolding going on, and things not from outside the description field, but it's better than what was there before. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 03:19, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

The name bolding in the description column is coded in the module, mimicking title bolding in articles' text. I was also adding the script name to the beginning based on BrandonXLF's doc template. Now switched to capitalising the first letter instead. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 06:35, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

You might want to do something about the description for User:Xenocidic/statusChanger2.js, which seems to be taking someone's comment from the talk page (after following a redirect). I appreciate the problem though as the location of the description for the scripts seems quite random. —  Jts1882 | talk  07:03, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, s/he redirected the script's description page to its talk page; what can we do? — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 07:12, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Given that that's made by Xeno - would you mind someone else putting up a description there (or doing so yourself)? Elli (talk | contribs) 03:38, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

It looks like the description page was created by another user and then redirected somewhere strange and then redirected to the script talk page. I don't recommend using the script (since I have no idea if it still works), but feel free to change the redirect to a more usable description. It's meant to update a page with your online status, quite old school. Really neat script list though, I've had that pain point of searching for obscure scripts. Thank you! –xeno^talk 08:44, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Wow, Erutuon just took this script to a whole other level. A level of coding I'm frankly yet to understand! — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 02:15, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

What's going on with bulletpointing using the asterisk? Unless it's just me, something has clearly changed, as if to create a new "level zero" of black circular bullet points instead of the grey square ones.

As an example at Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#RD:_Gavin_MacLeod, look at the change that my comment made - compare and . My comment indented using :*, but that's also changed the following comments to use the old bulletpoint style. Black Kite (talk) 22:14, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@Black Kite: It's this edit by GKFX (talk · contribs). Three other edits (one, two, three) by the same user may be related, but are not the direct cause. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:27, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I’m not quite sure what you mean, but if you want a sublist within a bulleted list (<ul>) you should be using ** x (which means <li><ul><li>x</li></ul></li> within the original list, not :* x which I believe will end the original <ul> and create a completely separate definition list containing a bulleted list. User:GKFX^talk 22:38, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

This is not about sublists, but the first-level list. Something in Template:ITN candidate, or its subtemplates, is causing a series of <li>...</li> elements to be emitted bare - that is, without the enclosing <ul>...</ul> tags. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:58, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes, that makes sense, and it's clearly only been happening since that edit. GKFX, can you fix the problem or revert the template changes, please? Black Kite (talk) 23:13, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

GKFX, thanks for fixing it. Black Kite (talk) 18:58, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

I was confused because I was viewing it on mobile, and I still can't see any square bullets (might be a difference in skins). Anyway it is now fixed (Special:Diff/1025987272) - it turns out that you shouldn't write * bullet point</div> with no newline before the tag. I still don't quite understand what happened, but it works now. User:GKFX^talk 18:59, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, 'don't write that specific phrase' is a case of Parser.php being Parser.php. Parsoid handles that case correctly, but Parsoid is not yet live for read views. Izno (talk) 16:15, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

I imagine most people this affects have seen it already, but just in case, I'm giving this more visibility. If you run code that uses CSRF tokens, you'll need to know about this change. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:17, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

RoySmith Probably one for WP:IANB and WP:BOTN. Izno (talk) 16:26, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Izno, I'll cross-post there as well, thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:32, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

IIRC this has been a long time coming. According to phab:T280806, only Cyberbot I and Peachy predominately use these deprecated queries... -FASTILY 00:29, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi all

I've been playing around with Special:LinkSearch, I think it could be an extremely useful for Wikipedians working with external organisations to encourage them to share knowledge and content if we could provide them with a total number of links. Is there something I can add to the URL to make it display a total? Here's an example search

* https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=https%3A%2F%2F%2A.unesco.org%2F

If this isn't something I can do already is this something technically simple I can ask for on Phabricator?

Thanks very much John Cummings (talk) 11:00, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

@Anomie: a count list such as in: phab:T211344#4803661 could help the OP, but I'm guessing that wasn't a simple client-side query request? — xaosflux ^Talk 11:13, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

No, it wasn't. You could do it with Quarry or DB access from Toolforge (in the case here, probably something like SELECT COUNT(*) FROM externallinks WHERE el_index_60 LIKE 'https://org.unesco.%';), or with a lot of API queries and some manual processing of the results. A count built into the page would probably have to be capped for performance. Anomie⚔ 11:52, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Anomie and Xaosflux using quarry or toolforge is way beyond my technical skill level (and most others who would want to get this info), unless there were very simply step by step instructions and I just had to change the URL in a preformatted query. Would that be possible? Just to check I understand, it would be possible to have a total number of links in the linksearch but this has been turned off because it would cost too much processing time? Or has it just not been added because no one asked for it? John Cummings (talk) 12:03, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

It hasn't been implemented because it would cost too much processing time for some cases. Specifically, database time scanning the rows to get a count. Anomie⚔ 12:20, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Anomie would it be possible to put a timeout on this kind of query like Wikidata query service does? John Cummings (talk) 13:29, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't think there is any way of getting the total number of external links other than by getting all items from linksearch and counting them. Re the idea of providing an incentive for organizations, that was tried by the Wikipedia Library (WP:TWL) a few years ago and I analyzed some external link dumps for them. The idea is a bit controversial because the plan is essentially to help an organization promote itself on Wikipedia by spamming their links. My analysis scripts were very klunky and someone wrote a much better system with a funky name that I can't find at the moment. It was a website where a configuration file told some software what domains (like example.com) to monitor, and it would track all external links (like www.example.com/click/bait.html) and show totals over time. I have a feeling that the website shutdown but don't know. I have found something in my talk archives mentioning the "most referenced domains on the English Wikipedia (2015-05-15)" at phab:P587. Johnuniq (talk) 11:34, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation Johnuniq, I didn't mean to use this number as a way of adding more links, more of a way to use the existing number of links to establish the importance of Wikipedia in their public education work. I think what you mean is Linkypedia which was amazing but has been dead for years. There is a version of it on GitHub but this is way way beyond my level of technical expertise https://github.com/edsu/linkypedia. Would there be a way of installing it on WMFLabs or similar as a service? John Cummings (talk) 12:03, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

@John Cummings: The way I used to do this with LinkSearch was to up the page limit to 5000 in the URL then click Next Page until I hit the end. It wasn't a great method. Doing a Quarry query per the above is probably the best way to get a static number. We built a simple tool for longer term tracking for the library at Wikilink. It's not easily configurable by people who aren't us but if you have a need for some monitoring please feel free to drop me an email and we can set that up. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 12:06, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much Samwalton9 (WMF), is there a plan to make this more open or people can make requests (with a public table like BaGLAMa 2? It would be super helpful for people working with GLAMs, I know several Wikipedians in Residence who would use it. Please could you run a query for UNESCO (http//:*.unesco.org) (they have different language versions) and EIB.org. Thanks again. John Cummings (talk) 13:58, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

@John Cummings: quarry:query/55617 has the uneso link. You can click fork and try another domain (in this case the domain name part is "backwards"). — xaosflux ^Talk 14:23, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Xaosflux thanks so much, this is very helpful. One question for the UNESCO one specifically, unesco.org is structured by language the same way Wikipedia is, e.g en.unesco.org is the English version, fr.unesco.org is the French version etc. I see in the query you've structured the URL as https://org.unesco.%, I'm assuming this takes this into account? Is there a way urls should be structured so they take this kind of thing into account? Thanks again. John Cummings (talk) 16:03, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

@John Cummings: the % in there is capturing all of them, if you wanted it to be more specific you could put in "org.unesco.en%" for only en.unesco.org for example. — xaosflux ^Talk 16:24, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Use Special:Search with a tiny amount of regex to tell you the number of pages a link shows up on: 12k pages for unesco.org. Izno (talk) 16:13, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Izno this is extremely helpful, thanks very much, one question, what is different between insource:unesco and insource:/unesco\.org/ ? When I replace UNESCO with WIPO in the search it seems to break and only show 4 results. Thanks again. John Cummings (talk) 16:16, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

@John Cummings: Without a link to your query I cannot troubleshoot why it broke. The first part starts the search by looking for any text "unesco" appearing somewhere in the wikisource. The second part is a regular expression that looks for the text unesco.org. The period is 'escaped' (because a period has another meaning in regex without escaping). I have also added an 'i' after the second search to make it case insensitive, since you seem to be dealing with some cases where the case might change. --Izno (talk) 16:28, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Izno, thanks so much for the explanation, I'll write these up as instructions somewhere for other users who want to run similar searches. John Cummings (talk) 16:33, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

And yes, plugging in "wipo" does result in just 4 links. It is not linked much. Confirmation in LinkSearch. (Please also spell my name right.) Izno (talk) 16:40, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

WIPO says the domain is wipo.int, not wipo.org. Searching for that returns about 1100 results. – Rummskartoffel (talk • contribs) 16:44, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

That'd do it for him too probably then since I got the same number. :D Izno (talk) 16:48, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks again Izno, I've written some instructions here. I'd like to put some somewhere on Wikipedia as well, any suggestions? John Cummings (talk) 23:08, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Probably something in Help:Linksearch would be sensible. Izno (talk) 05:21, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

The phantom command used to work fine. But now when I use the phantom command in a math formula I get an error message: User:Just_granpa/sandbox.

Here is a discussion about it at stackexchange: https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/599758/phantom-command-error Just granpa (talk) 11:47, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Do you have evidence that it has worked at Wikipedia? I can only find comments saying it doesn't work. phab:T261215 is a 2020 request to support it. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:08, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm...I might be wrong. So my only option is to remove the command from all my formulas? Just granpa (talk) 13:02, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Text in non-Latin scripts should never be in italics or boldface. This is especially true for Chinese, which becomes unreadable in bold or italics even to many who could usually read it. Nobody deliberately typesets Chinese in bold or italics, but many infoboxes do so, as they automatically format text in italics or in bold (for example, book titles). Depending on the infobox, this can be fixed either with a language code parameter or in the more pedestrian way of using {{noitalic}} or {{nobold}}.
The problem is how to actually find all these violations: is there a way to search for any text displayed in bold or italics that uses a given non-Latin character set? —Kusma (talk) 09:35, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Kusma:: Searching for all bold, Chinese text would probably require you to write a script to slowly scrape all of Wikipedia and process the resulting HTML. It does not sound fun! The reason I say this is that there are very many ways for text in an article to become bolded, and it is beyond our search engine to recognise all of them. The only feasible way to see what is bold is to render the page. However if you are particularly concerned about infoboxes then post at Module:Infobox suggesting that the relevant non-Latin scripts are detected with a Lua ustring pattern and made non-bold or non-italic automatically. User:GKFX^talk 22:47, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

@GKFX: I am only concerned about templates. If infoboxes and citation and external link formatting templates no longer display bad bold or italics, almost everything is done. I'm not sure whether full automation as you suggest or a tracking category so other issues (language tagging) can be done is the best way forward, but I'll post at the relevant talk pages tomorrow or so. Thank you! —Kusma (talk) 22:58, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Now at Template talk:Infobox. —Kusma (talk) 12:59, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

It doesn't seem easy (main problem is I want to detect things that have NOT been tagged, but should be), so perhaps a scraper script is better after all? I would appreciate any creative ideas :) —Kusma (talk) 13:27, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Please rename Stadio Pierluigi Penzo to Stadio Pier Luigi Penzo. Thanks!!! --93.35.184.189 (talk) 15:41, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Declined. The two references that are linked in the article both spell it 'Pierluigi', as in the current title. See also this 2018 article. EdJohnston (talk) 15:48, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

The club webpage does spell it "Pier Luigi", as does the Italian article, where this was moved 7 years ago. So the IP is probably correct, but it is possible that the wrong name is more verifiable :) —Kusma (talk) 16:01, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

• 93. To request an article move please see Wikipedia:Requested_moves#Requesting_a_single_page_move. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:20, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

I forked Mdaniels5757's excellent markAdmins script, in spite of it being configurable, bc I wanted to use icons with tooltips instead of acronyms in paranteses separated by slashes. I managed to ungroup them in the xml from the user links, so it can be tooltipped, but haven't figured out how to do that. Any suggestions? I tried this. but evidently that's not it. I gather I need to create abbr nodes, but I'm fumbling in the dark. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 07:55, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Well, if you're not talking about abbreviations (but icons), <abbr></abbr> is incorrect markup. Would you be happy with a <span></span> using a title attribute? I believe most browsers (I'm ignoring smart phones, as usual) show item titles as a tooltip when you hover. See Template:Tooltip (and its code) for ideas. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 11:44, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely; my mistake. Yet, the issue is creating the separate span nodes, each with its titles. Basic js, I'd imagine. Cheers. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 04:33, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Need Template Help if Possible - Tried to upgrade the "Template:Human timeline" to a somewhat larger (for better font sizes) template at => "Template:Human timeline/sandbox5" - some of the Note links (on the right side margin) seem OK (4 of 10), but several Note links (6 of 10) are NOT OK (no linking?) for some reason (except for these 6 Note links, all other of the 28 links in the template are OK) - I'm stumped with the 6 (NOT OK) Note links at the moment - any help with these particular links would be greatly appreciated - Thanks - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 14:56, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

It's the Template:Human_timeline/Template:Graphical timeline display bug - if you double click click and drag mouse on the inactive link, it will highlight part of one of the vertical link. Its div "bleed out" to the right and covers most part of the links on the right. MarMi wiki (talk) 20:04, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Other timeline templates such as {{Life timeline}} or {{Nature timeline}} also suffer from this issue in a limited fashion, so it may be a bug in {{Graphical timeline}}. – Rummskartoffel (talk • contribs) 20:08, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

@Buidhe, Hike395, MarMi wiki, and Rummskartoffel: (and others) - Thank you for your comments - QUESTIONS: is there a Fix for this problem Display Bug? (click-and-drag-mouse doesn't seem to work) - or should this concern be presented (escalated?) to some other appropriate Wikipedia discussion group? - if so, which one exactly? - in any case - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 21:31, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

• Drbogdan Thanks for creating this new timeline at Template:Human timeline/sandbox5. I agree that it's an improvement on the original (for accessibility), but unfortunately it doesn't fix the linking issues for me. Hopefully someone else on this noticeboard will have an idea for fixing that. (t · c) buidhe 21:52, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done @MarMi wiki and Rummskartoffel: (and others) - Possible Solution - all links now seem to work OK (using => WinTel10/ChromeBrowser/DellXPS8900) in "Template:Human timeline/sandbox5" - after removing/commenting-out => "annotations-width=8.8" in the template coding - hope this helps in some way - iac - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 00:53, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

FWIW - Even much more relevant follow-up template comments, details and fixes can be found at => "Template talk:Human timeline#Need Template:Human timeline Help" - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 11:25, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

I made a module and its template: {Module:Cube 3D} and {Template:Cube 3D}. The module is working fine but I don't get why the HTML is not rendering when we use the template: User:Harshrathod50/Cube 3D. Harsh Rathod Poke me! 04:56, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

var, calc, background-image do not make it through the sanitizer I believe, and space-evenly isn't supported by all browsers. Between the two, the majority of the CSS in your module is invalid for use on Wikipedia.

Secondly, please return it to your sandbox. It is clear to me that is not something that we need on Wikipedia. Izno (talk) 05:08, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

And indeed, when I check my console, I see that much of the inline styles of the HTML has been stripped to <div style="/* insecure input */"></div>. There is a possibility your Lua could be amended to remove the offending inline styles and then you would get some output, but it would not necessarily be the output you want (one of the styles in question would be acceptable with TemplateStyles, but I leave that as an exercise to the reader) Izno (talk) 05:12, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Izno: Where to get the list of css style attributes not accepted here? Why the var, calc are insecure? I don't get it. What is TemplateStyles? Harsh Rathod Poke me! 06:00, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
How to print the sanitized output on the console? Harsh Rathod Poke me! 07:23, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Apparently calc works, which was fun to learn. I assume you understand why url does not. var simply does not work and will not work at any point in the near future, so accept it. :^) Finally, see WP:TemplateStyles. Izno (talk) 07:29, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Izno: Just a little help once again. Can you please point out those properties which are causing the problem. Right now the properties containing var are the problem. I got that. Is there any more issue that you could point out. I also want to ask where can I see this output you saw: <div style="/* insecure input */"></div> Harsh Rathod Poke me! 08:00, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

url() is insecure and is stripped from wikitext. It is allowed in TemplateStyles for a small set of websites. The output was in browser console. Izno (talk) 17:23, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

The protected Template:Country data Czech Republic was edited today to set shortname alias = Czechia. This breaks some uses of the template that uses the country name to generate a link to an article. For instance {{flb|CZE}} now expands to non-existing  Czech Republic, while before it expanded to  Czech Republic. The same for Template:fl-rt, Template:fl19, Template:flw and others. Can someone please fix this somehow? I cannot edit the protected template, nor am I sure what is the right course of an action (revert the change? rename the articles? create a redirect? add link alias-floorball exception? (though other uses apart from floorball might be affected too))

Sidenote: While I personally do not object the use of "Czechia", it seems that the change violates a consensus: Talk:Czech Republic#Czechia.

Thanks. Prikryl (talk) 09:22, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

@Prikryl: I've  Reverted the changes due to the issues you mentioned. Elli (talk | contribs) 09:25, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

@Elli: Thanks. --Prikryl (talk) 09:31, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

The solution forward to Prikryl's issue is creating the article redirects for Czechia, Elli, not simply going back on Izno's edit. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 10:19, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

@Prikryl: Ignoring the 'broken' aspect of this which I will comment on the template talk page, I don't see the sidenote as relevant. Czechia redirects to Czech Republic, so it seems reasonable to support that in the template. Izno (talk) 16:07, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

@Izno: It seems that the consensus is that the "Czechia" shall not be used on Wikipedia (yet). Though, I'm not going to argue with you about that here. It's not the right place. It just seems that this should be properly discussed before making such major changes. --Prikryl (talk) 19:59, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Occasionally, I am welcomed on a different-language Wikipedia (so far Italian and German). This seems to happen spontaneously. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 14:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: many of the other projects have "welcome bots" that welcome "new accounts" (which get automatically created if you load a page from that project). See your global accounts here: meta:Special:CentralAuth/Qwerfjkl. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:55, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

This is acceptable if you actually made an edit on the wiki in question; it is understandable, if annoying, if you visit the wiki without making an edit. But a few days ago I got a notification from Tamil Wikisource, which I am absolutely 100% dead certain I had never visited until I followed that notification to find out what it was all about, only to find this notice, which I cannot read one bit. I'm pretty sure the WMF has decreed that welcome bots should not send messages to people who have never edited the wiki in question, but does the restriction also apply to humans? Courtesy notification to Sridhar G, who is not a bot. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:42, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

WMF has not decreed such a thing. That is entirely a (or several) particular community's decision.

There is a gadget out and about that can have you 'visit' every wiki such that you get all the welcomes out of the way at a single time. I don't have it to hand. Izno (talk) 20:01, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

(ec) No, there are dozens of wikis with welcome bots that hit every new account. If you want to "get it over with", enable third-party cookies, then try meta:User:Krinkle/Tools/Global SUL. You'll get about 25-50 welcomes over a week or two, and that will be that. If you know how to draw more attention to the proposed meta:Welcoming policy, please do so. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 20:02, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

I believe what happened with Tamil Wikisource is that edits you made to Module:Protection banner/config were imported to English Wikisource on August 20 (as part of an import of Template:Category disambiguation with the "include templates" box checked), and then imported from there to Tamil Wikisource on May 26 (as part of an import of s:Module:List with the "include templates" box checked), which automatically created local accounts for all users who had edited the page. The same thing happened to me via Module:Documentation (which was imported to English Wikisource as part of the same batch-import on August 20 and then imported to Tamil Wikisource on February 3 as part of an import of s:Template:Bad page scan), except for some reason I was never welcomed. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:46, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

All users that have edited an page that was imported only get assigned if the admin clicks to assign the edits to global users and include all edits of the page. Both are off by default. That kind of action is deliberate. Notice the "w>" in the history of the en.wikisource module (Module:Documentation), (next to MusikAnimal) it indicates that that edit is not assigned to him.--Snævar (talk) 23:26, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

@Redrose64: here we can see the new users. so that i welcomed you. Sridhar G (talk) 06:53, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

It appears that I'm in with a bunch of other people whose names I recognise:

• 05:24, 26 May 2021 User account Alex 21 talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:24, 26 May 2021 User account Erutuon talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Trialpears talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Black Falcon talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Mz7 talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Galobtter talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Timrollpickering talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Bellezzasolo talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Writ Keeper talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account SMcCandlish talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Swarm talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account BrownHairedGirl talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Redrose64 talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Jo-Jo Eumerus talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Yaris678 talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Fayenatic london talk contribs was created automatically
• 05:22, 26 May 2021 User account Ymblanter talk contribs was created automatically

Like me, they've been around for absolutely years. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:19, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

They are contributors to a page imported at that time. None of them had ever visited the wiki. If they had then their accounts would have been created when they did instead. This is why my proposal at meta:Welcoming policy says: "A wiki is only allowed to post welcome messages to users if their account was originally created at the wiki, or the user has at least one non-imported edit there." PrimeHunter (talk) 22:02, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

After a Teahouse discussion, the two people helping me there suggested that I ask here. (For a quick summary of that discussion, see the 6 June 2021 comment by User:Ganbaruby.)

Here are two examples (each going to a wrong location within the target Wikipedia article, COVID-19 pandemic in Illinois):

• Section name specified: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign response to the COVID-19 pandemic is a Redirect which does not end up anywhere near the section titled "University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign response".
• Anchor name specified: UIUC response to COVID-19 pandemic is a Redirect which does not end up anywhere near the anchor titled "UIUCresponse".

User:Ganbaruby reported that the Redirect he/she tested misbehaved in Safari, but worked correctly in Chrome. (All my testing was in Safari; sorry: I don't know how to determine what version of Safari I was using.) CWBoast (talk) 02:16, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

I think I can reproduce it (in Chrome). What happens for me if I click one of those links is that it first scrolls to the correct location. However, the huge bar chart with the number of cases ({{COVID-19 pandemic data/United States/Illinois medical cases chart}}) is still expanded. Then, at some point, it's collapsed by some javascript, and that reformats the text, which moves the target section up. --rchard2scout (talk) 07:33, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

This is expected with autocollapse and custom collapsibles as used by that chart. Its one of the reasons we tend to avoid using them. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Any suggestions on how to search a page's diffs? For example, I want to know if there are any previous edits of Parliament of Singapore which are similar to Special:Diff/1027141563. -- RoySmith (talk) 12:12, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

This is not possible offhand, though occasionally requested. (Maybe someone has built or identified a tool on Toolforge since the last time?) Izno (talk) 12:41, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

You could try using WikiBlame, which might be able to find things that stayed in the article for a while before getting removed, but I honestly doubt it'd do a particularly good job. May be worth a shot, though. – Rummskartoffel (talk • contribs) 12:56, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

• I actually started work on such a tool years back. I stopped due to difficulties with parsing the diff pages, but I've recently finished work on a different tool that might solve that problem. If I can get it working, I'll be sure to post a notice here and a few other places. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:21, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

  MPants at work, Cool. Ping me if you get that working. I hear you about how hard it is to parse the diffs. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:30, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

  RoySmith, Will do under one condition: write me a message saying this on my talk page so I don't forget. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:45, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

• @RoySmith: the which are similar component is going to be a far stretch. If you just want to search for a phrase or string, you could use Special:Export to export all of the revisions of the page, then just use a text search tool on the output file. (Limited to 1000 revisions). — xaosflux ^Talk 14:14, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

In the infobox at Bantu languages, the Southern Bantu branch doesn't show up, even though it is present in the code. I found out that the number of displayable branches is capped at 20 (something I hadn't realised as of yet), and the parameter "child21=" results in an internal error message. What's the best way to deal with this awkward situation? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 19:16, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

You could have added more entries separated by <br> in child20. But the whole idea of displaying a list of numbered parameters seemed pointless so I replaced it with one long parameter containing the list. Maybe the infobox documentation should suggest this. The list is rather long for an infobox but it's not my field. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:51, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! A quick workaround I thought of afterwards was simply deleting the first entry, which isn't even a real branch but a link to the geographical classification by Guthrie. But your solution works too and has the flexibility I was looking for. I only just remembered the similar solution employed in Tibeto-Burman languages. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 15:01, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

20:01, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Can I configure my Wikipedia account to use MFA? Ideally, it would work like GitHub or NPM where I can use an authenticator mobile app and have some recovery codes which I can use in case when my phone is stolen. Grillofrances (talk) 02:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

See Help:Two-factor authentication * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:43, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks so it seems that only some groups of users have 2FA available so I need to request such access. IMO each user should be able to configure a 2FA and for the most privileged users, it should be even required. Grillofrances (talk) 23:13, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

We know. Though I don't agree with the opinion, there is a large opinion that WMF 2FA is too hard to deal with.

That said, the WMF-reason for not having it for all people today is that is not easy to fix if you lose your account password and your scratch codes and particularly requires human resources that have higher-paying jobs than to deal with such a user. Izno (talk) 01:30, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello,

I'm a marine biologist specialized in Echinodermata. I would like to be informed of any new picture of these animals so I can review the identification and, when useful, add them to the relevant Wikipedia articles. But as there are over 7000 species of the, of course I can't check all the categories every day. I used to benefit from Ogrebot's newsfeed for a long and useful time but it is no longer working. Do you guys know any other way I could get such uploading newsfeed ? (knowing that I'm not a hacker).

Thanks and best regards,

FredD (talk) 07:22, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

This is basically the same question as the "Best way to monitor Category:Requests for unblock", so the same answers apply.--Snævar (talk) 09:20, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Outdenting as this wants an entire recursive category tree. — xaosflux ^Talk 10:35, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@FredD: are most of these new files not actually here, but on commons? — xaosflux ^Talk 10:42, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Snævar. Xaosflux, it's for pictures that are not yet on commons but will be added in the future. I want to know when people add them, so I can review and use them. Thanks ! FredD (talk) 11:38, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@FredD: if you would like someone else to make a bot to make such a report for you, you can ask over at WP:BOTREQ. Best regards, — xaosflux ^Talk 13:33, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I'll try this. Thanks ! FredD (talk) 14:01, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Take a look at Dillon County under "Major intersections" in South Carolina Highway 38. There are two places called Oak Grove, South Carolina. The one that had an article before I added the one in Dillon County has more people and is obviously more notable.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 17:43, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Template:Jctint#Parameters, location_special. MarMi wiki (talk) 02:10, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

That works. Thanks.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:11, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Fredddie did this.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 15:52, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

I am making a tool for monitoring Category:Requests for unblock. I looked at the IRC feed but it does not seem to monitor additions and removals from categories.

Right now I am using the API to ask for its members every few minutes, but it would be nicer if I could get a feed as I prefer not to bother the API too much. Does anyone know a better way to monitor for additions and removals from a category? HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 02:44, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Anomie probably does similar things for the protected edit requests queues. Izno (talk) 04:20, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

AnomieBOT just queries all pages in the categories periodically. Anomie⚔ 11:35, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Might my CatChangesViewer help you? Also obviously you can watch the category to monitor additions/removals, though imperfect (for which I wrote another script). Nardog (talk) 04:30, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

MediaWiki itself can show you category additions, see mw:Manual:CategoryMembershipChanges. It is turned on on every WMF site.--Snævar (talk) 09:18, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@HighInBC: so if you are "making a tool", can't your tool just query the category? The other option mentioned above involves the watchlist. One thing you could try would be to make another account, add those categories to that account's watchlist - then use the watchlist RSS feed for that account to see the changes. — xaosflux ^Talk 10:38, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

I am querying the category right now. Interesting idea about the watchlist. Right now it is not using and account as it is read only. But that is a good idea. Thank you. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 10:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@HighInBC: see Wikipedia:Syndication#Watchlist_feed_with_token for more on that, as it will let you not have to worry with the normal "authentication" stuff needed for logging in with an account programmatically for this case. — xaosflux ^Talk 11:02, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Oh that is neat. Thank you for that info. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 11:05, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes that is perfect. I can supply the API that token, and the timestamp of my last check and get a full update in just one call. I no longer have to store the previous state to compare against to find out what has changed. Thank you, and thanks to everyone else who gave advice. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 11:15, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: But as you can see in the URL, isn't a feed essentially just an API call returned in Atom XML rather than JSON? I can't imagine it's less server-expensive than simpler API calls that don't require tokens. Nardog (talk) 13:43, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@HighInBC: Oh, you're making a tool! Sorry I was off. I may be still preaching to the choir, but: AFAIK there are two basic ways: list=recentchanges can give you the specific edits that caused additions/removals, but it's limited to last 30 days and doesn't detect changes by way of transclusions; list=categorymembers doesn't have those limitations but only gives you additions, not removals, and only timestamps, not revisions. Nardog (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@HighInBC: The Wikimedia EventStream API shows both category additions and removals. It's a stream (hence makes your tool actually work in real-time, rather than every 10 minutes or so), and doesn't require any authentication or atom XML parsing. – SD0001 (talk) 03:32, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I was looking for a real-time solution instead of polling. This is very useful. I have learned a lot from this thread. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 04:04, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@SD0001: Perfect, and only 27 lines of code: User:HighInBC/Category unblock watcher.pl. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 05:30, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Resolved

 – Information provided. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:29, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Is there a way to build a URL which gets you to the "Change protection" screen, but with fields pre-filled? You can do that with block user, via Special:Block, i.e. this, but as far as I can tell from the wikimedia manual, there's no version of that for page protection. What I'm hoping to do is be able to have a script which creates a link you can click on to take you to a pre-filled out form, which you just have to review and click the "Confirm" button. I know I can do it directly through the API, but if I can do it with a clickable link, that would be preferable. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:00, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@RoySmith The URL params should match the name attribute of the input fields. You can inspect the DOM to see what they are. This technique should work on most all forms in MediaWiki. Here's an example that touches almost every field: . — MusikAnimal ^talk 16:24, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

MusikAnimal, Ah, cool. Thanks. I guess that's what the docs mean by "This page is a partial list of the parameters" :-) -- RoySmith (talk) 16:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Five minutes ago, my Watch list looked like it always did. Is it my imagination, or are the square green boxes on the left new (as of the last 5 minutes, it seems). Some are green. Some are the same old blue color they always were. I went over and looked at my Commons watchlist, and the little boxes to the left are all the same blue color. I'm not sure what the green color is supposed to signify. Clicking on any color of them, does not change the color. So, what is the purpose? — Maile (talk) 23:08, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Green are unread, blue are those you've looked at. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 23:11, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

You may have accidentally enabled "Display green collapsible arrows and green bullets for changed pages in your watchlist, page history and recent changes (unavailable with the improved Watchlist user interface)" in the Preferences. Nardog (talk) 23:15, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, that was it - checked in Preferences. Thanks. — Maile (talk) 23:24, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@Maile66: It's not new, see for example Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 103#"Updated since last visit" markers from eight years ago. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:28, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw on Preferences that it wasn't new. But something on mine made it suddenliy really stand out, to the point of being annoying. Perhaps a font or some other something updated on my system to cause it. My browsers - Firefox and Chrome - both showed it the same way. — Maile (talk) 23:35, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@Redrose64 and Nardog: I think - perhaps - why this suddenly stood out at me. And maybe this changed. I've been looking at my watch list on Commons and Wikisource. They both have the green and blue square boxes, but look normal to me. The difference - both of them display the time of edit to the right of the edited page name. The one here on Wikipedia displays it to the left of the page name, between the boxes and the article name, creating what seems like a wider gap between the boxes and the rest of it. Or maybe it's my imagination, but that seems to be the difference to me. — Maile (talk) 00:52, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

So I made a function in Module:Lua class (last function) that tries to override/build upon the default type to support new "types". I was testing it in User:Alexiscoutinho/sandbox 1 and noticed that it behaves differently if you are previewing. When you view the sandbox normally, it should contain "table table table". However, if you preview the page (without edits of course) it would now contain "class Base instance" (which is desired). What is going on? Why is the type function behaving differently? Alexiscoutinho (talk) 21:33, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

While OOP is great, I'm not sure that the confusion of another layer would be worthwhile. However, I purged User:Alexiscoutinho/sandbox 1 and it is now showing "class Base instance", the same as in preview. Johnuniq (talk) 00:21, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I completely forgot how to fully purge a page. Furthermore, I thought purging was only client side, thus I got quite surprised when the issue persisted in an anonymous tab. Alexiscoutinho (talk) 01:13, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Resolved

@Awesome Aasim and BrandonXLF: The editing window for QuickEdit appears in the text editor for addmylinks. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 18:50, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: What do you mean the editing window is appearing in the text editor, what steps do you perform for this to happen? addmylinks has some buttons that look the same as the ones in QuickEdit, but that's the addmylinks text editor and not QuickEdit.

Do you mean when you save a page using QuickEdit, the page appears in the "My Links" section on the sidebar? – BrandonXLF (talk) 19:15, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl Looks all normal to me. Can you give browser information as well as skin information? Aasim (talk) 05:11, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

At first, pages appear normally, but when I click the 'quick edit' button, the 'My links' section is replaced with the normal 'QuickEdit' editor. (I'm using the Vector skin, but it might be affected by User:TheDJ/mobileVector.css.) ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 06:59, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

@Awesome Aasim @BrandonXLF This seems to only happen on mobile. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 15:53, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

@Aasim @BrandonXLF I've used User:BrandonXLF/PortletLinks to replace Aasim's script. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 19:52, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: I was able to reproduce the issue on the new Vector skin, I'll see what I can do to fix it. – BrandonXLF (talk) 20:49, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: The issue should be fixed now. – BrandonXLF (talk) 16:40, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 17:11, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@BrandonXLF By "new Vector skin", are you referring to User:TheDJ's mobileVector? ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 17:17, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: I'm referring to mw:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements. If you go to appearance settings with Vector skin selected and uncheck "Use Legacy Vector" you see the new version of the skin. – BrandonXLF (talk) 18:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 14:55, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Resolved

When I load any .js page on the desktop version of Wikipedia, I cannot paste or copy text, so I have to switch to the mobile version. Is there a way to get a round this? (I think WikEd allowed me to view text normally.) ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 16:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

There's certainly something odd about the edit box in some circumstances. If you don't get an edit cursor when you click in the edit box, click in the edit summary box instead, then use ⇧ Shift+Tab ↹ to get to the main edit box. You should then be able to click with the mouse on the desired editing point. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:22, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

It works for me. Does it work if you log out? Does safemode work? What is your browser? What is your skin at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering? PrimeHunter (talk) 18:28, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter @Redrose64 I'm using a mobile device, which is why I have to switch to the mobile version to paste anything. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 19:55, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter It does not work in safemode, and I'm using the vector skin. I cannot test wether it works when logged out, as User:Qwerfjkl/common.js isn't editable by a non-interface administrator. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 06:25, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Can you copy and paste when you log out? Safemode does not load any user js page. What do you mean by "load any .js page" in "When I load any .js page on the desktop version of Wikipedia, I cannot paste or copy text"? Are there circumstances where you can copy and paste in desktop? PrimeHunter (talk) 09:17, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter Normally, when editing on a mobile device in desktop mode (or mobile mode), I can double- or triple-tap on a word to highlight, and an option to copy or paste appears above the selected text. However, in .js pages, this doesn't happen; the text selection behaves wierdly, and instead of options appearing above the selected text, a '...' Box appears, with multiple options that don't work. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 21:28, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Oh, you are talking about editing js pages. Loading a js page usualy means a load command to run the script in the page. Try clicking the <> icon at the left of the toolbar to switch between the normal editor and the code editor. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:37, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 14:57, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Is there any way to make links to other language wikipedias, commons, Wiktionary, etc, open in a new tab? I sometimes forget that they don't behave like normal external links and it's annoying. DuncanHill (talk) 00:59, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

You must have enabled "Open external links in a new tab or window" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. It's not default. I don't know how to extend it to interwiki links. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

It'll require a bit of javascript. @DuncanHill You can do it by adding $(function() { $('.extiw').attr('target', '_blank'); }); to special:mypage/common.js. – SD0001 (talk) 04:20, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Hold down the Command (Mac) or Ctrl (Windows/Linux) key while you click the link. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:21, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

exactly, by far the easiest way to do it and works on any website. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 07:39, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

indeed, but I thought that was obvious and DuncanHill was looking for an automated solution. – SD0001 (talk) 10:39, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

They aren't external links, they're internal within Wikimedia. Mike Peel (talk) 10:57, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

google: doesn't look like an external link, but is. A lot of the m:Interwiki map is truly external. —Kusma (talk) 12:07, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Weird, I didn't know that was possible (nor do I understand *why* that is possible) but none of the examples before that were external. Mike Peel (talk) 12:47, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Traditionally most of the other websites that had special interwiki prefixes were other wikis or other free content sites, with some other sites like Google thrown in for convenience. The main difference between the interwiki map links and normal external links (other than the styling) is that interwiki map links do not have the "nofollow" attribute. (I once got so annoyed at Wikia/Fandom's advertising that I worked a bit to turn "nofollow" on for links that go there). —Kusma (talk) 13:04, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@SD0001: Thanks, that certainly works for commons, wikiquote, etc, doesn't work for the interlanguage links down the left-hand side. @Jonesey95: and @TheDJ: actually right-click and open in new tab is what I use, but as I mentioned I sometimes forget, and @Mike Peel: they may or may not be external but they behave like external links in that the preferences I set here do not apply there, and things like templates that work here do not work there. Anyway, thanks all. DuncanHill (talk) 16:30, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@DuncanHill Change '.extiw' to '.extiw .interlanguage-link-target' to cover them as well. – SD0001 (talk) 16:37, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@SD0001: That doesn't seem to do anything - and stops it working for commons etc too. DuncanHill (talk) 16:45, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@DuncanHill oops, needed a comma there in between: '.extiw, .interlanguage-link-target' – SD0001 (talk) 16:52, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Bingo! @SD0001:, this will be a great help to me, many thanks. DuncanHill (talk) 16:55, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Alexiscoutinho (talk) 22:43, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

mw:Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#mw.text.jsonEncode

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:03, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! Alexiscoutinho (talk) 23:21, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Does anyone know what's happening here? It seems like an attempt to create a redirect to a centralized talk page, but the "../" isn't something I've seen before and it's not currently working. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 17:58, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm. It is working for me. I haven't seen this shortcut before either, though. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:24, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

It's a subpage link (or rather a parent page link in this case). It should work, but it appears due to a bug, redirects like it haven't worked from at least 2006, see phab:T8151. – BrandonXLF (talk) 18:30, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

I really wonder why it works for me then, both on Firefox and Opera. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 01:38, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Fixed by just explicitly declaring the target. — xaosflux ^Talk 10:46, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Sdkb: This has always worked fine for me, and I use it sometimes. Here's a demo, just follow the breadcrumbs. Do any of these not work for you? I'm on Win 10/Vivaldi, but I checked it on iOS 14.2 mobile as well. Haven't incorporated it into a redirect, though, so maybe there's something squirrely there. Mathglot (talk) 01:56, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

That works for me! {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 02:10, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Why am I seeing one hidden category showing up at the top of the main category list at the bottom of an article?

On the article Simone de Beauvoir, the first category I see is "Wikipedia articles with WORLDCATID identifiers", a maintenance category. The next two cats are Simone de Beauvoir, followed by 1908 births; these two correspond to the first two categories explicitly in the article wikicode. The first category is not in the wikicode anywhere, which is not surprising, as it is a maintenance category that is probably dragged in by a citation with an |oclc= param.

I have my preferences set so that I see hidden maintenance categories, and after the main category list which is displayed to everybody, the hidden cat list starts off with: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list; CS1 maint: archived copy as title; Articles with short description, and so on. Why doesn't the WORLDCATID maintenance category appear somewhere with these hidden categories, instead of the top of the main category list? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 01:32, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Because a since-fixed bug in a series of edits I made to Module:Pages with authority control identifiers caused the category to no longer register as hidden. I've applied some null edits, and now the category is back to its proper spot. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:44, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

@Pppery:, thanks! Mathglot (talk) 02:37, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

At Miawpukek First Nation, I tried to embed an infobox in order to remove duplication and shorten the infobox. It didn't work too well. If an editor could look at User:Magnolia677/sandbox I would appreciate the input. Thank you! Magnolia677 (talk) 10:49, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Fixed in your sandbox (top half). – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:26, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

QUESTIONS: Tried uploading a recent NASA 2gb PNG image ( at "https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/archive/PIA24663_fullres.png" on NASA-page => "https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA24663" ) (takes awhile - ~1hr/?) - but Commons didn't seem to accept it for some reason - is the image file-size too large for Wikipedia? - Is there some workaround? - image seems relevant to several NASA articles (ie, "Perseverance (rover)", "Timeline of Mars 2020" and possibly more) - downloaded image file opens OK in my Firefox browser (Wintel10/Firefox/DellXPS8900) - iac - Thanks in advance for a reply - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 11:41, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@Drbogdan: c:Commons:Maximum file size might be helpful. Elli (talk | contribs) 11:43, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

"takes awhile" lol.. you don't say.. 2 GB... —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:58, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@Drbogdan, unless someone wants to count the number of grains of sand on Mars, I don't see why the image dimensions wouldn't be downscaled by 4, and the image saved as jpg, like they did here https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA24663.jpg, file size 15 MB (link found here). Those who really need the 2.4 billion pixel image can always go back to NASA. Ponor (talk) 14:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

FWIW - seems — * Perserverance at Van Zyl (AVideo360; 1:40; Spring 2021) on YouTube (related site; 2GB PNG-image) — added to "Timeline of Mars 2020#External links" may be sufficient for now - Thanks for all the comments above - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 14:58, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Sometimes the upload gets stuck on the unstash step; if you upload a file with UploadWizard and it "fails", you might still be able to publish it from c:Special:UploadStash. I've also found c:User:Bawolff/stash.js to be immensely useful for this purpose. -FASTILY 08:25, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Have you ever been frustrated because there's no way to map namespace numbers to namespace names in a database query? I hereby present Quarry 55924 for your amusement. There's hacks, there's ugly hacks, and then there's hacks that are so ugly you're proud of them. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:40, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

You don't even need to join pagelinks for that: quarry:query/55928.

I had a somewhat similar idea a while ago, but using a sandbox with links to Talk:Talk, User:User, User talk:User talk, and so on, so I could just use pl_namespace and pl_title out of pagelinks, and not have to worry about some joker breaking the query by creating extra subpages or inbound links or whatever. I couldn't figure out how to get it working with the main namespace, though.

quarry:query/55930/User:Cryptic/ns, to make it concrete. Munging the titles with MID() etc. like you did could do it, but it stops being brief enough that I'd feel ok pasting it into the middle of real queries. Still better than what I usually resort to like in e.g. quarry:query/50255. —Cryptic 20:04, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

My go to is including the namespace number and then using regex change it to {{subst:ns:N}} and then putting it in a sandbox and then it works. A better system would certainly be nice though. --Trialpears (talk) 20:22, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Cryptic, You win. -- RoySmith (talk) 21:11, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

This was one of the reasons I created User:SDZeroBot/Database report. It supports wikilinking titles from the query output, using a namespace number from another column. – SD0001 (talk) 05:56, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Namespaces aren't consistent across wikis - see the identical list rendered on 5 wikis - English, Commons, WikiData, Meta, and German.

Since Quarry allows querying different wikis just by changing the specified database from enwiki_p, the SQL should also (preferably) be wiki-neutral to maximise reusability. The method in Quarry 55915

SELECT CONCAT('[[', IF (pt.pt_namespace=14,':',''), '{{ns:', CAST(pt.pt_namespace AS CHAR), '}}:', pt.pt_title, ']]')

dresses the namespace/page-title as a wikilink in a wiki-neutral way (skipping the use of regex Trialpears mentioned). Thankfully namespace 14 is consistently Category (or equivalent) in needing the colon prefix for all wikis AFAIK. The resultset can be taken as a wikitable & sandboxed on the corresponding wiki.

User DerHexer is a useful test subject for this query since he's an admin for dewiki_p, enwiki_p, commonswiki_p, & metawiki_p. - Cabayi (talk) 07:29, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

I've learned from experience that the file namespace (consistently 6) also should have a leading colon, otherwise that looks great and I will use it next time. --Trialpears (talk) 08:15, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@Cabayi: Namespaces -2, -1, and 0 through 15 inclusive are consistent in their purposes across all WMF wikis, and I think across all MediaWiki wikis also. The non-negative numbers also always occur in pairs: all subject namespaces have an even number, and its corresponding talk namespace is always one greater. Whilst the local names do vary (e.g. User: might be Utilisateur: (French) Benutzer: (German), etc.), the name used on English Wikipedia may be used for all of them (e.g. try following fr:User:Redrose64), with one pair of exceptions. These exceptions are namespaces 4/5, which have been localised here to Wikipedia:/Wikipedia talk:, and as you noticed at Commons, Meta etc. the local names are Commons:/Commons talk:, Meta:/Meta talk:, etc. The default non-localised name for these two namespaces is Project:/Project talk:, and they work everywhere - try following Project:Namespace, meta:Project:Namespaces or indeed ru:Project:Пространства имён.

For namespaces numbered 16 or above, not all of them exist on all wikis, but for those that use a given number, its purpose is the same for all wikis that use the same number - for instance, Module:/Module talk:, where they exist, are always 828/829 although as with namespaces 15 and below, the local names may vary.

@Trialpears: The File: namespace is like the Category: namespace in that an initial colon is necessary to make a link instead of to activate a feature. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:31, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Redrose64. I've adjusted Quarry 55915 to handle files as well:

SELECT CONCAT('[[', IF (pt.pt_namespace=6,':',IF (pt.pt_namespace=14,':','')), '{{ns:', CAST(pt.pt_namespace AS CHAR), '}}:', pt.pt_title, ']]') page,

and salted File:SaltedFile for a test example...

Since this method doesn't touch on the actual namespace names (localised or global) no adjustment is needed on that front. The SQL is still wiki-agnostic.

Cheers, Cabayi (talk) 08:54, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

• Template:DistroWatch

No documentation, so I hacked one example, so it needs to be pretty. .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 08:37, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@0mtwb9gd5wx: Where a template has no documentation, you may use the {{Bad documentation}} template, you don't need to post here. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:49, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

0mtwb9gd5wx, thanks for improving the documentation! Usually we keep documentation on a separate documentation page such as Template:DistroWatch/doc if it is longer than a line or two which, I have now done. You also accidentally added it in a way that the documentation was included when the template was used on pages which is another reason it's much simpler to have a dedicated documentation page. --Trialpears (talk) 08:54, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@Trialpears:, I am not very familiar the technical infrastructure, so I posted here. Lots of mistakes... .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 09:08, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

0mtwb9gd5wx No worries =). We all were new once. If you want to make more modifications to the documentation you should do that at Template:DistroWatch/doc and not Template:DistroWatch. I think it looks acceptable now. --Trialpears (talk) 09:11, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Silly Question: is it possible change to User:Talk:Talk from User:0mtwb9gd5wx ? .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 08:47, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

0mtwb9gd5wx, I think WP:UNCONF applies and I'd decline it. Other renamers may view it differently and perform the rename. Once done, other users may also see it as WP:UNCONF and report you to WP:UAA.

It also has the potential to break stuff. Many templates handle usernames and strip leading namespaces. I doubt any of them have been tested for this level of misdirection.

It's a balancing act, how badly do you want it and how much grief can you tolerate? Cabayi (talk) 09:04, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Also, m:GRP#Policy re frivolous & repeated requests. Cabayi (talk) 09:07, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

I glanced at the previous post after writing the subsequent one, it was just an amusing idea. .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 09:16, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

0mtwb9gd5wx, once upon a time I thought for (;;) would be cool/amusing as my "forever" username. Boy, was I ever wrong. Cabayi (talk) 09:25, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

On this revision of my common.js page, all the code is disabled. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 14:20, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Break the long comment line into multiple lines. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:44, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

About a month ago I brought up the possibility of removing the education program talk namespace at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 189#Education program namespace removal. This was prompted by T217137 and similar tasks which resulted in removal from other Wikis following that the namespace was emptied either through deletion or moves. Currently there are 0 pages in the Education program namespace and 1,427 pages in the Education program talk namespace. My plan is to move most pages from their current location of Education program talk:FOO to Wikipedia talk:Education program archive/FOO. Some pages that have no significant content (such as the supported by wikied messages) will/have been deleted outright without archiving. Assuming there are no objections in the next few days I will proceed with this plan. --Trialpears (talk) 08:38, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Good idea, I support this task. 3 months ago I went through the entire Education program talk namespace to fix Lint errors. Many pages like Education Program talk:Hanyang University/ English Readings in Information Sociology: Understanding Wikipedia (Fall 2013)/Grading have no useful content and can be deleted. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 15:30, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

I've now deleted that and 75 other similar grading subpages after verifying that they indeed doesn't have any possibly useful content. --Trialpears (talk) 16:36, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm noticing that Template:Authority control at the bottom of articles isn't autocollapsing today as it usually does. Anyone else notice this? – Muboshgu (talk) 19:11, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

This is a deliberate result of Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_181#RfC: look of Authority Control, where there was consensus for the new style, but no consensus to collapse the template by default. It is also being discussed on the talk page at Template talk:authority control#Collapsing the template? * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 19:16, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Pppery, thanks for the info. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:19, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

A how-to guide asserts that Vega Code can be copied to wiki and be used to generate charts/graphs. Then, why does this code not work? TrangaBellam (talk) 10:20, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@Yurik: Are we not supporting 3.0, yet? TrangaBellam (talk) 10:47, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@TrangaBellam: the only notes I see say we only support v2; this is part of the graph extension though - so you may get some better responses here: mw:Extension talk:Graph. — xaosflux ^Talk 11:53, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: That talk-page is choc-a-bloc unanswered queries. Nobody pays any heed. TrangaBellam (talk) 13:01, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@Wugapodes: Can you help? I saw your comments at this page. TrangaBellam (talk) 13:08, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Apologies for all the pings. Vega 3.0 (or later versions) are not integrated according to T165118. T223026#7117287 mentions quite-old developments and I would be interested to know of any updates. TrangaBellam (talk) 13:18, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

FYI, during the last Community Wishlist Survey, this task received a great support and should be taken over by The Community Tech team in the coming months. Pamputt (talk) 21:44, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello, probably just my device, or, are there any other mobile users experiencing categories being visible(in a block like manner) whilst in mobile view? is there a d.i.y manner for me to remedy this? Celestina007 (talk) 20:34, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

WP:ITSTHURSDAY, I think. This appears to be intentional and working as designed, as step one of a change in mobile category display. See T246049, which appears to have changed the mobile view to display categories. It may be followed by T152199, which intends to make them collapsible.

This change appears to have been announced as part of the often inscrutable list of updates linked from the above Tech News (and always posted well after the Tech News, so you have to remember to check the link sometime after the Tech News posting). See mw:MediaWiki 1.37/wmf.9#MinervaNeue for the description of this change.

I am not always great at following the phab/gerrit/WMF bread crumbs, and never great at understanding why they work on this fiddly stuff instead of fixing real bugs, so I could have any of this wrong. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:54, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

This change removes the old component that used to do categories on mobile, which had a half dozen open bugs associated with it. So... yes, it fixed real bugs. Izno (talk) 21:09, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

And may even enable category gadgets. Izno (talk) 21:09, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

You can completely hide it by adding #catlinks {display: none;} to your minerva.css. – Rummskartoffel (talk • contribs) 21:02, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Jonesey95, Rummskartoffel, Izno thanks, I think I’d probably just opt to hide it (if it doesn’t translate to it being invisible in desktop view also) You coders/script creators and all template editors in general are gifted. This aspect of editing just overwhelms me. Celestina007 (talk) 21:19, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

minerva.css only affects the mobile skin, so you'd still see categories while on the desktop version. – Rummskartoffel (talk • contribs) 21:26, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

@Rummskartoffel, thanks-a-billion mate. Celestina007 (talk) 22:26, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

• Darn, wrong thread. I thought this was gonna be about uncloaking Romulan felines using cellphones. My bad. Mathglot (talk) 23:15, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

  I have long thought that the full potential of category–feline humor is too seldom realized. EEng 23:32, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Bug? The "Next 500 results →" link at https://sigma.toolforge.org/usersearch.py?name=50.201.195.170+&page=Talk%3AWuhan_Institute_of_Virology&server=enwiki&max= doesn't work. Σ runs it? (Leads to https://sigma.toolforge.org/usersearch.py?startdate=None&name=50.201.195.170+&page=Talk%3AWuhan_Institute_of_Virology&server=enwiki&max=500 which leads to itself. Started here.) --50.201.195.170 (talk) 23:50, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

As you noted, this is not part of the English Wikipedia, and you can follow up at User talk:Σ. — xaosflux ^Talk 00:08, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Anyone know why this isn't part of the standard UI? It's part of the API, see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=Talk%3AWuhan_Institute_of_Virology&prop=revisions&rvuser=50.201.195.170&rvlimit=500. So why do we need an external tool to produce human-readable output? Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 00:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Interesting question. The native API result suggests usersearch.py is more severely broken; it finds 0 edits, instead of the many the API finds in the last 500 revisions. Also a bug? (It is "part of the English Wikipedia", xaosflux, in the sense that the tool is linked to from every page like that where I said I started, though at toolforge.org. So? I can follow up on their talk if @Σ: doesn't respond to the ping and/or others may help. E.g. if I'm confused and these aren't bugs.) --50.201.195.170 (talk) 02:12, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

50, we link to many external tools - but we (the editors and admins of wikipedia) don't maintain them. If it is broken to the point being useless, we can remove the external link from the interface or change it to something else - but we can't actually do anything about it being broken any more then if the RIR links on the bottom of your talk page had an error - we have no access to the codebase for that tool, only its maintainer does. Removal or replacement can be discussed at the associated message here: MediaWiki talk:Histlegend. — xaosflux ^Talk 10:26, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

The people that maintain them often watch this page, or know what the issue is, how to fix it, or provide alternatives. I think this is a perfectly acceptable venue. Because I saw this discussion, I've changed MediaWiki:Histlegend to point to what should be a fully working tool (disclosure, authored by yours truly). — MusikAnimal ^talk 22:57, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Yup. I just didn't bother arguing/FTT. --50.201.195.170 (talk) 00:05, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

User:Ale jrb/Scripts/userhist.js also provides this function as a userscript integrated into special:contribs, though the UI is bit outdated. – SD0001 (talk) 03:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Did anyone find the 2 bugs reproducible (or not reproducible)? I guess so, but I don't see anyone mentioning one way or the other. --50.201.195.170 (talk) 23:14, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

This feature works fine in XTools: https://xtools.wmflabs.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/50.201.195.170/1/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology. I've changed MediaWiki:Histlegend to point to it for the time being. — MusikAnimal ^talk 22:54, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Up until recently there was not a way to search for edits by IP addresses. At some point this became possible, but I have simply never gotten around to implementing this. →Σσς. (Sigma) 10:00, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

IP addresses have actor IDs just like accounts, so if you go by that it should be the same query for both IPs and accounts. If you want to query for IP ranges (which XTools only very recently added support for, but it's been technically possible since late 2017), then that does require a different query. Is the source code published anywhere? I'm happy to help. — MusikAnimal ^talk 17:21, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

You're right. It's actually already supported, but the link above doesn't work because there's a space at the end. https://sigma.toolforge.org/usersearch.py?name=50.201.195.170&page=Talk%3AWuhan_Institute_of_Virology&max=500&server=enwiki works fine. Oops→Σσς. (Sigma) 02:26, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Ha! So not broken, after all. Though you could strip out the blank spaces server-side, I suppose. Edge case, for sure! Anyway in light of this I've changed MediaWiki:Histlegend to point back to Sigma's. — MusikAnimal ^talk 05:22, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for helping, MusikAnimal! Wrong?: Σ: the link above doesn't work because there's a space at the end Umm...gaslighting? The links in my OP above obviously don't have spaces in 'em. They can't; they're bare URLs. (And no %20's either.) No, they were certainly not working and work now. --50.201.195.170 (talk) 00:05, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

The links in OP do have a + sign at the end of the name param, which is the encoding for a space. – SD0001 (talk) 16:31, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

I already addressed this concern at Wikipedia talk:User scripts#Not working but no one is responding. Help me, please. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 14:08, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

See WP:JSERROR on how to report script errors. For starters, you can tell which one isn't working. – SD0001 (talk) 14:22, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

@SD0001: I got this message:

 Uncaught ReferenceError: capitalScript is not defined
    at <anonymous>:1:701
    at domEval (load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector:11)
    at runScript (load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector:13)
    at enqueue (load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector:11)
    at execute (load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector:14)
    at doPropagation (load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector:6)

—hueman1 (talk • contributions) 02:23, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@HueMan1: line 10 is invalid syntax. You probably want it to be importScript('User:WikiMasterGhibif/capitalize.js'); – SD0001 (talk) 08:16, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@SD0001: I think everything works now. Thank you! —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 08:23, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Is there a command which, for lack of a better term, I'd call {{scrunch}} which would do what I requested here? (what someone on the help desk calls "Yes the gap is kind of annoying") Pi314m (talk) 00:58, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

It's not clear what you are asking for. All of the recent revisions look within the realm of reason to me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:04, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Please look at Linden General Hospital. The History section begins without a gap, following the LEAD. By contrast, in Glens Falls Hospital there is a long gap, what help desk calls "kind of annoying" (and which, via either an existing flow control command, or a new one, I'd like to reduce, if not eliminate). Pi314m (talk) 09:25, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@Pi314m: I'm not seeing any abnormal gaps in Glens Falls Hospital. Are you referring to the space that is being used by the table of contents section (which is not on the first article because it is so short)? This is normal layout, as seen in this random article I just loaded: Gigan. How this appears may vary with the screen width of the reader, and also will look a lot different on mobile browsers. — xaosflux ^Talk 10:26, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I think what you are seeing is the normal space created by the table of contents (TOC). To see a comparable space in some of our highest-quality articles, take a look at Babe Ruth, or Four Freedoms (Rockwell), or Ring ouzel. Articles without a TOC (i.e. with three or fewer headings,) will not have this gap. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:26, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

20:25, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

googling Special:CreateAccount for example, or googling Special:UserLogin or any other special page to my knowledge, I've seen it always says "No information is available for this page. Learn why." Why is that? Also some others like googling Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations also don't seem to work either, but it never seems to work for special pages. Why does it not work specifically for special pages, or for any other specific page? It doesn't appear to be the same as noindexing, as you can search for the page, it just doesn't give you info. 54nd60x (talk) 13:44, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

The page at one time was robots.txt blocked to avoid it being indexed. Then google started indexing pages even if they showed up in robots.txt and said we should be using noindex. But noindex cannot easily be detected if the page is also in robots.txt (unless the google bot finds some per chance traversal path that has the pages linked from elsewhere)... and those Special pages were never removed from the robots.txt. Similar for SPI. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:42, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

@TheDJ: Why were special pages avoided being indexed? And does it mean that the magic word __NOINDEX__ would have no use as it can't be added to a special page. If the pages are not noindexed in robots.txt, why doesn't it give you info for special pages? And in what circumstances would it be best to avoid searching for special pages? 54nd60x (talk) 01:24, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@54nd60x: Special pages can't be indexed because there is nothing to index: a special page doesn't actually exist until you visit it. When you follow a link to a page like Special:Preferences the page is generated specifically for you; once served to you it's deleted again; and what you receive is different from what other people receive when they follow exactly the same link. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:39, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@Redrose64: Special pages can't be indexed because there is nothing to index: a special page doesn't actually exist until you visit it. Could you please explain that? Does it mean that special pages have visible content but they aren't actually editable as it's just transclusion of MediaWiki pages? Also, why is Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations and perhaps some other non-special pages noindexed? Does it have to do with privacy? 54nd60x (talk) 10:41, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Special pages could be indexed but they aren't. It's a choice that we ask external search engines to not index special pages. They place noindex in their html, and https://en.wikipedia.org/robots.txt says Disallow: /wiki/Special:. Special pages are generated on demand and often rely on url parameters. Many special pages often change content, depend on the user viewing them, or have rather arbitrary content we don't want random searchers to find instead of our articles. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:41, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter: I was browsing special pages and found that the content can be changed with ?uselang=$1, as in Special:SpecialPages vs. Special:SpecialPages?uselang=es. However, I noticed that the content of Special:MathWikibase is always written in the wiki's language (i.e. it's in Spanish on es.wp and in English on en.wp but the contents are not messages and the content of the page cannot be changed based on user preferences.) Where is the source content of these special pages that allows it to be different across different wikis, and how can it be edited if some major change must be made? 54nd60x (talk) 00:48, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure I completely understand your question, but here goes: Special:MathWikibase is a feature of mw:Extension:Math, and its source code is here. It looks like it is supposed to be localised, and the interface messages for it exist, e.g. MediaWiki:Math-wikibase-special-form-placeholder/es, but for some reason only the "main" version seems to be loaded, e.g. MediaWiki:Math-wikibase-special-form-placeholder (it's a bug, I guess). These "main" versions, unless manually created, always contain the localised message for the default language of the wiki (i.e. es:MediaWiki:Math-wikibase-special-form-placeholder is the same as es:MediaWiki:Math-wikibase-special-form-placeholder/es), so it works unless you change your language preference from the default. Hope my ramblings make sense (and aren't completely incorrect). – Rummskartoffel 09:18, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MathWikibase?uselang=qqx also shows something is wrong. qqx is supposed to show the name of used MediaWiki messages but it just shows the text of four of the English messages. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:26, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

• OK - so as should have been surmised from above, this is not something we can fix directly here on the English Wikipedia - WP:BUG requests can be opened about any special page that is being presented by an extension. In the case of Special:MathWikibase for example, I've opened: phab:T284960. — xaosflux ^Talk 23:26, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

There is something broken at Schengen Area: the text seem to be mostly in red with some huge font size. I have slow connection to the internet at the moment and can not debug it. Can someone look at it? --Jarekt (talk) 09:57, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Jarekt, this was caused by recent changes to {{UN_population}}, which I've reverted. Guarapiranga, apologies for the unilateral revert, but this change appears to have had various unintended consequences. firefly ( t · c ) 10:14, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@Firefly: I've seen a number of similar notes about infobox populations (), but couldn't see the issue myself. Would this be the same issue? CMD (talk)

Chipmunkdavis - yes, almost certainly, as these articles also use the template mentioned above. Now that I've fixed it I can't see any oddities on those pages either. firefly ( t · c ) 16:34, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

The template had an unbalanced <includeonly> tag. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:46, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

My apologies, my intention was to update the figures to latest UN estimates (which are now outdated). I've now fixed the proposed change in the sandbox, and tested it in the aforementioned pages, with no hiccups. If no one finds any other problems with it, I'll put it into production in a few days. Cheers. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 00:05, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Anyone seen a template or Lua function that returns the link or id to the last revision of a given page before the current one? (Bonus points for one that returns the last revision by a given user!)

Cheers. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 05:13, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@Guarapiranga: Do the query string parameters diff=cur&oldid=prev help? As in {{diff|Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)|cur|prev|this diff}} → this diff. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:04, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, not sure, Redrose64. What I was aiming to do is show the change in numbers at WP:User scripts/Ranking to see which scripts are trending by simply comparing the current to the last revision of WP:User scripts/Most imported scripts. If function/template told me the last revision id was 1026222220, I could simply read Special:Permalink/1026222220 into Module:User scripts table. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 08:16, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Can the {{BLP editintro}} be displayed on any article whose talk page contains the {{BLP}} header? Aasim (talk) 03:30, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@Awesome Aasim: As shown in its documentation, the editnotice {{BLP editintro}} is shown automatically when editing a page categorized as either Category:Living people or Category:Possibly living people. The edit intro is injected into the edit URL by MediaWiki:Common.js.

On talk pages, the {{BLP}} message is shown (when viewing, not when editing) if a {{WikiProject banner shell}} is present, and it has |BLP=yes; also if a {{WikiProject Biography}} is present, and it has |living=yes, and is not enclosed in a {{WikiProject banner shell}}.

There used to be a bot that looked for pages in Category:Living people and Category:Possibly living people and made sure that their talk pages had {{WikiProject Biography}} with |living=yes. I don't think that it is still running. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:16, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@Redrose64 There are non-biographies that have BLP material, but those do not have such editintros. I am wondering if it is possible for any article with the {{BLP}} tag on the talk page to have the BLP editintro show up. Aasim (talk) 08:18, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Here's the code:

    if ( mw.config.get( 'wgNamespaceNumber' ) === 0 ) {
		$( function () {
			if ( document.getElementById( 'disambigbox' ) ) {
				addEditIntro( 'Template:Disambig_editintro' );
			}
		} );

		$( function () {
			var cats = mw.config.get( 'wgCategories' );
			if ( !cats ) {
				return;
			}
			if ( $.inArray( 'Living people', cats ) !== -1 || $.inArray( 'Possibly living people', cats ) !== -1 ) {
				addEditIntro( 'Template:BLP_editintro' );
			}
		} );
	}

I think that lines 284 and 296 are the significant ones. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:36, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

is that really needed though ? Kinda a slippery slope if you ask me and before we know it we have even more banners that no one reads on every single page. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:06, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

From a sub-discussion at WP:VPW#IP Masking Update, you get the attached warning box when you try to block a sensitive IP range. What produces that? Is there some edit filter? Something in the interface? Back-end wikicode? And, more to the point, how can we add 192.0.2.0/24, to give admins a safe (sandbox) range to experiment with? -- RoySmith (talk) 17:08, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

I only know it's coming from Module:Sensitive IP addresses/list (and MediaWiki:Group-sysop.js#L-27 gives the warning box). Stryn (talk) 17:43, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @RoySmith: it is produced via a hook from MediaWiki:Group-sysop.js. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:48, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Xaosflux, Thanks. I've picked this up at Template talk:Sensitive IP addresses -- RoySmith (talk) 18:00, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Quick CSS question, what's the default left margin between the edge of an image and the article body text? I'm trying to get a table to match. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:34, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

In which skin? ;) Izno (talk) 00:32, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

(The cheaty way is to use floatright or floatleft classes.) Izno (talk) 00:33, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@Izno, Vector ;) Using those classes unfortunately doesn't seem to be working—could you take a glance at User:Sdkb/sandbox/testpage? {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 02:09, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Ah, so they don't. In any case, do not assume the margins you have in your skin will reflect the other skins, esp. mobile. Izno (talk) 02:57, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

In any case, your browser console will tell you the widths and heights of an arbitrary block on a page, and tell you why those are. --Izno (talk) 02:59, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

yeah table floatleft and float right are exceptions and use different margins historically. I do wonder why though... Maybe that is something that should be discussed ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:09, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@TheDJ and @Izno, I'm guessing it should be discussed, yeah; tables should automatically have the same sort of margins as pictures, without me or anyone else needing to dig deep into the CSS to figure out what they should be and set them manually. I didn't have any luck using my browser console to find the margin number, so I still don't know what it should be, nor where I'd go to propose a more general fix. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:15, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

PLease can someone help me fix this revision of my page. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 18:06, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: you have a huge number of scripts loaded - what exactly to you want help with? See Wikipedia:Reporting JavaScript errors for some information on how to improve your report. If something just isn't working, you should start by disabling all of your scripts and looking for which one isn't working (see also mw:Help:Locating broken scripts). — xaosflux ^Talk 18:31, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@Xaosflux I believe the error is related with the conditional clause:

  var scriptmanager = 1;
  if (scriptmanger == 1) {

as it works fine without it. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 18:36, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Remove the last comma in the last uncommented line (Rater) of the object scriptsToManage. MarMi wiki (talk) 18:33, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: did that help? — xaosflux ^Talk 18:44, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@XaosfluxYou haven't edited the correct revision of the page - I've restored it now. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 18:47, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Besides that, a quick lintercheck suggests there are syntax problems in the if (scriptmanger == 0) { section on line 42. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:49, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Notably Missing semicolon. errors. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:50, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl

Press F12 (FF/Chrome), switch to Console tab, and do a preview of your common.js page. MarMi wiki (talk) 18:55, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Also, there's a typo; you declare scriptmanager, but check scriptmanger, without the second "a". scriptmanger is presumably undefined, and will throw an error. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:54, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@MarMi wiki Thanks, that was the problem. ― Qwerfjkl | 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 19:01, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Passing thanks to Writ Keeper. :) MarMi wiki (talk) 19:06, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Also, I get a warning message about this:

function importScript(location) {
		mw.loader.load( '/w/index.php?action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&title=' + encodeURIComponent(location));
	}

Thanks Writ Keeper! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qwerfjkl (talk • contribs) 19:29, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Works for me (and by that I mean that it doesn't return an error, I don't know if it actually works). In your common.js you're missing ending bracket "}" for it (the same you have at the end of the above code example). MarMi wiki (talk) 21:15, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Read this in another language • Subscription list for this newsletter

Earlier this year, the Editing team ran a large study of the Reply Tool. The main goal was to find out whether the Reply Tool helped newer editors communicate on wiki. The second goal was to see whether the comments that newer editors made using the tool needed to be reverted more frequently than comments newer editors made with the existing wikitext page editor.

The key results were:

• Newer editors who had automatic ("default on") access to the Reply tool were more likely to post a comment on a talk page.
• The comments that newer editors made with the Reply Tool were also less likely to be reverted than the comments that newer editors made with page editing.

These results give the Editing team confidence that the tool is helpful.

Looking ahead

The team is planning to make the Reply tool available to everyone as an opt-out preference in the coming months. This has already happened at the Arabic, Czech, and Hungarian Wikipedias.

The next step is to resolve a technical challenge. Then, they will deploy the Reply tool first to the Wikipedias that participated in the study. After that, they will deploy it, in stages, to the other Wikipedias and all WMF-hosted wikis.

You can turn on "Discussion Tools" in Beta Features now. After you get the Reply tool, you can change your preferences at any time in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion.

–Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

00:27, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

The Internet Archive sites are offline due to a power outage. Updates are found on Twitter. Elizium23 (talk) 19:27, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@Elizium23: It is not clear if the power outage was planned by the Internet Archive or an electric utility. They have been offline for more than 12 hours already. Are there any other details regarding this? LSGH (talk) (contributions) 03:11, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure if there's an appropriate place to suggest this apart from here, so just throwing it out: I just corrected "Rieter" to "Reiter" in a ref, something that happens fairly often. I think if we made a semi-automated tool that found automatic last names in references (the same way the citation tool does) and spit out a list of instances where it differed by only one letter, it'd get quite a few hits. Does this sound feasible, and if so, would anyone like to take it on? {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 05:04, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Please see:

• User:Timeshifter/Sandbox153

Other than the left margin what differences, if any, is your screenreader showing in the 2 sections.

Testing for accessibility problems. --Timeshifter (talk) 23:05, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

What is your understanding of screen readers that you think the left margin is going to be evident? Has it still not occurred to you that the emphasis on the visual is leading you to focus on inappropriate solutions? — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 23:44, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

I have no idea what you are talking about. I am not emphasizing the visual. That's obvious, since I am asking for people with screenreaders to check out the 2 sandbox options, and tell us if their screenreader notices anything more than the indented left margin on one of the options. If the screenreader notices that at all. --Timeshifter (talk) 23:55, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

The question is a bit contrary to your intent: by saying "Other than the left margin..." you're implying screen readers will behave differently based on the left margin size. (The left margin makes no difference to the underlying document model and won't affect screen readers. Incorrect HTML will affect the document model, and it can cause unexpected behaviour.) But in the larger scheme of things, the tables don't really comprise a list. If they did, they should be marked up that way even if not being displayed side-by-side. It would be better not to put the tables into a list solely to take advantage of the default padding of list items. isaacl (talk) 00:22, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

I am concerned about accessibility problems. And simplifying things. If it causes no accessibility problems, then simple is better. User Prime Hunter proposed an even simpler solution with templates. So that is a 2nd option. The left margin is a problem when the 2 side by side tables are in a narrow screen and the tables wrap (one drops below the other). A horizontal scroll shows up sooner when there is a left margin. --Timeshifter (talk) 00:35, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

The list markup is extraneous. You can add the "display:inline-table" style property directly to the table (see User:Isaacl/side by side table example). isaacl (talk) 00:36, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

On a side note, PrimeHunter is just suggesting to hide the details of additional wrapper HTML inside templates. However with the style property applied directly to the table, no wrapper HTML is needed. isaacl (talk) 00:47, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Isaacl. See Help:Table#Side by side tables. "style=display:inline-table can not be added within the table wikitext, because long captions will mess things up in mobile portrait view, or other narrow screens. It must be added outside the table wikitext."

Look at User:Isaacl/side by side table example in mobile view and narrow your browser window until you see the problem.

The problem does not exist at User:Timeshifter/Sandbox153.--Timeshifter (talk) 01:42, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

I put both pages in tabs in the same window and switched back and forth as I changed the window width. I don't see any differences. (Even if there were differences, it doesn't make semantic sense to put the tables into a list solely to take advantage of the styling of list items.) isaacl (talk) 01:51, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

I do see a difference on my mobile device. Rather than wrapping the tables in list items, they ought to be wrapped in <div> elements, as I did in my original test. isaacl (talk) 01:58, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

(unindent). Wow, that's great, isaacl. I added the <div> example on the bottom here:

• User:Timeshifter/Sandbox153

I did not need the padding. Instead one can leave a space between the ending and beginning div tags. Or put them on 2 different lines:

</div> 
<div style=display:inline-table>

--Timeshifter (talk) 02:20, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Also, isaacl, someone who uses a screen reader (Graham87) says that the div example works fine. See talk diff. Here is the div example below. I pasted it here so that others can check it out too.

Everybody: Narrow your browser screen to see the tables wrap (one drop below the other). Works in mobile view too. The relevant div wikitext:

<div style=display:inline-table>
--Table--
</div> 
<div style=display:inline-table>
--Table--
</div>

--Timeshifter (talk) 13:23, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

How come there are still issues with the font size when using the classic vector skin gadget (e. g. as to the rendering of references and categories)?--Hildeoc (talk) 14:08, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@Hildeoc: Hard to say without links, browser information, what "gadget" this is about exactly, etc. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 17:10, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@AKlapper (WMF): See "Preferences → Appearance → Vector classic typography (use only sans-serif in Vector skin)". Browser: Firefox (current). I just checked once again, and the problem is that with that gadget enabled, the font size of regular text on any English Wikipedia page is simply tiny.--Hildeoc (talk) 18:08, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Ah, this is about "Vector classic typography (use only sans-serif in Vector skin)" on Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. Indeed. Someone needs to increase font-size: 0.8125em; for .mw-body-content, #bodyContent in MediaWiki:Gadget-VectorClassic.css, I guess. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:31, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Fortunately, this has been fixed by now. Thanks for your interest. Best wishes--Hildeoc (talk) 16:25, 16 June 2021 (UTC)