Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Archive 20

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--Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 02:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

As audited food and drink articles are underrepresented, I have dangled a new carrot here bon appetit Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:44, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

On the Talkpage:Pomegranate and the Talkpage:Cranberry a discussion is taking place pertaining to 1) the health effects of the aforementioned fruit and berry, and 2) whether the reviews could belong to the ‘further reading’ – section? I am hoping for a larger community input. Do you have time to take a look? Thank you. Granateple (talk) 19:24, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

i thought that one of "capsicum" and "bell pepper" redirected to the other

now i find this is not the case

maybe someone (preferably someones with different dialects) give me a guideline on where to send links — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.24.148 (talk) 03:23, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

The term capsicum refers to the overall group of related peppers, except in Australia and New Zealand, where the word also refers to bell peppers. Where you send links depends greatly on the context of the article you're editing. Review the two articles, decide which is best. Boneyard90 (talk) 13:48, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Every time I read the article on Pasty it disapoints me. Its basically a train wreck of an article which mashes together in a Wikipedia Dunce-shaped crust two articles: one about the PGI protected Cornish Pasty; and then another about a pastry wrapped savoury product which might contain meat and might not, might originate from Cornwall or not, and has different forms wherever it has been adapted in the world. When we have a separate article (rightly) for the lesser known Scottish equivalent the Bridie; and decent articles with great regional flavourings for the Empanada or the Mexican Paste. Why do we try to continue to mash two things together, and get a lesser piece. Thoughts? Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 02:05, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe it's a good idea to change pasty in a disambig, and split the content in Cornish pasty, and merge the rest in to pie? I'm not really knowledgeable on the issue, but you could seek some feedback on the pie and pasty talkpages, or just go ahead with it. There are a few technical routes to take, but all of them seem decent (for what I can think of now, the easiest would probably starting to merge content from pasty to pie untill only content on the Cornish pasty is left, then move pasty to Cornish pasty, and change pasty into a disambig to pie and Cornish pasty) 13:25, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Looking trough the article again, it actually looks quite alright to me as it is now. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 23:42, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

So, are you saying that because of the PGI protection, that merchants all over the world can no longer call the thing they've been selling as Cornish Pasties (Pasty, singular) for the past, oh, 120 years or more, Cornish Pasties??? This whole argument seems like a non-starter to me. No matter what the PGI may say, that term, Cornish Pasty, has been used all over the world, for centuries (at least two) to describe a particular kind of hand-held pie. Any references to empanadas, Scottish products, etc. should be left to the See Also section of the article. They are different and have, or should have, their own articles. This isn't really the appropriate forum for wrangling over "territorial" disputes. Yes, mention the designation, tell what that means in the UK/EU, but don't act as though some tea shop in Hoboken, selling Cornish Pasties, is trying to do Cornwall out of its props. Zlama (talk) 03:00, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Wikiproject, the articles about Scottish malt whisky and related subjects are in pretty bad shape. I've begun creating some new articles on distilleries here and there, but I wouldn't mind a more organised effort. Would this Wikiproject be the right place? If not, could you direct me somewhere that is? If it is, would anyone be interested in starting up a taskforce? I'm looking to work on Scottish malt whisky distilleries in particular, but other issues and subjects around the production process and the malt whiksy 'scene' by lack of a better word (i.e. Keepers of the Quaich, Customs and Excise Act 1823, etc). There is a lot of content creation to be done, but also some streamlining work around article names, possibly some moves here and there, and probably some backlinking too. I never started a taskforce before, so any help would be welcome. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 13:14, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Could people chime in on this discussion please? It is a WP:Common name issue of Chinese American cuisine vs American Chinese cuisine. Two people a discussion does not make. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:50, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi, is it possible to get some reviews here - Wikipedia:Peer review/Bambusa vulgaris/archive1? Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 11:02, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Here. → ROUX ₪ 13:32, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I declined a few minutes ago (again) this draft Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Tullibardine. I think it has potential, but it lacks simply some useful 3rd party references. Feel free to improve it ;) mabdul 15:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

To my opinion the article came close to copyvio. So I suggest another draft. Night of the Big Wind _talk 18:41, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I suggest you move it to mainspace (and include it in the footer). Would you be interested in working on more whisky related articles? Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 17:10, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Just give a shout when you need help, but at the moment I can't promise anything. Night of the Big Wind _talk 19:08, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I just linked to the Percentage page from the Sourdough page. The How to banner at the top of Percentage struck me, particularly the phrasing, "The purpose of Wikipedia is to present facts, not to train", with the emphasis, "present facts, not ... train". The implication that training is not presenting facts seems odd. If one doesn't have facts, then one has non-facts. Non-facts might include beliefs. It just struck me as unusual any training would consist of Belief. The only connection to Food and drink project was the link from Sourdough, and I don't have available time to debate, although if anyone has any clarity on the above implication, which I distill to training = belief ?, your thoughts would be appreciated. Gzuufy (talk) 21:12, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't have a clue where you are talking about! Night of the Big Wind _talk 21:30, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I edited the above to include 2 links to relevant pages for locational data! It's possible my question is a greater policy question, and doesn't belong here in this specific project. If so, my apologies. Gzuufy (talk) 21:42, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Providing facts is not incompatible with providing useful information. For example, in the article on clotted cream, the way it is made is described. Those are facts, but if someone is able to use them to make their own clotted cream, does that mean we should remove those facts? No. Wikipedia may be here to provide facts, but providing facts does not mean providing only unusable information. If someone can learn to do something based on a Wikipedia article, that doesn't negate it's original purpose. No, you don't want to teach someone to how to crochet or how to play the market, but let's not draw that line to restrictively, please. Zlama (talk) 02:28, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion about how to handle recipes at WT:NOT#Recipes. Your input there would be most welcome. Thryduulf (talk) 08:46, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

I think this page has a lot of potential, perhaps along the lines of List of culinary nuts. Anyone interested in chipping in? —WFC— 18:23, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

LOL, first thing that has to be done is a split between "medical prescribed diets" and "dietery hypes". But a more friendly naming might be a good idea... Night of the Big Wind _talk 19:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I agree that an alphabetical format won't work going forward, and that it will be important to ensure that "fad diets" are not portrayed as being equivalent to more reputable ones. That said, my strategy at the moment is to briefly describe and reference everything first, because that will make it easier to reorganise the page. —WFC— 21:12, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I've done about 20% of entries, and am starting to think about the categories. Perhaps something along the lines of:

• Calorie-control diets
• Diets that regulate carbohydrates, proteins and fats.
• Meat-free diets
• Religious diets
• Medically prescribed diets (this would be used only for those which are primarily or exclusively undertaken as a result of medical advice, such as elemental diet. We wouldn't add a calorie-control diet here simply because doctors might recommend it).
• Other (this would include things such as junk food diet, and hard to categorise things such as ones based on eating local food).

Would that more or less cover it? —WFC— 02:37, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Help please! I tried to tidy the presentation of the article List of chocolate bar brands, and seemed to lose the table format. Do you know how this can be corrected? Many apologies, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 12:05, 16 February 2012 (UTC) Do not worry - I contacted people at Wikipedia: Help desk, who have now cleared up the article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 15:12, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

could any one please help me define free flowing agent 551, also food acid 330

food acid 330 is citric acid;

free flowing agent 551 is silicon dioxide (aka silica);

ref: List of food additives, Codex Alimentarius

TXEB (talk) 23:18, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I found a source about it:

• Meesey, Chris. "Into the Origins of Carne Deshebrada, the Meat that Makes the Taqueria." Dallas Observer. Tuesday February 16, 2010.

WhisperToMe (talk) 02:38, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Important information if you want to know British culture Ite2012 (talk) 16:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello wikiproject members! Since I have no experience with notability guidelines on this topic, I wanted to ask the community whether it's worth working on an article for The Pop Shop in Collingswood, New Jersey. The restaurant was featured on Throwdown! with Bobby Flay and received a reasonable amount of coverage in local newspapers, magazines, etc. I was wondering what the standards for notability are on a restaurant like this — they seem to be somewhat well covered in the local area (won some small awards, etc.) but their primary appearance in national media (which I assume is where notability comes from) is singular and only attributable to one episode. Thanks for your help everyone! --Pusillanimous (talk•contribs) 17:51, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that restaurants have any major special criteria that aren't covered by the general notability guideline. The only issue I have is including reviews as sources to establish notability. For most cases, a regional media outlet covering restaurants in its region is just a case of an acknowledgement of its existence, not notability. In addition, even in national and international sources, merely including a restaurant in a listing seems very flimsy, and the usual run-of-the-mill "this week's restaurant reviews" are also pretty tenuous. However, a more discursive editorial article by a food critic or reviewer would start to go towards establishing notability. I didn't see the Throwdown! show so I don't know to what extent the restaurant (and not just its chef) was discussed, but as long as you can show that interest in the restaurant extends beyond just an acknowledgement that the place exists, serves food, and isn't likely to kill you, then you could write about it. The litmus test, for me, is in considering whether a Wikipedia article can be written that is both informative and entertaining, and not just "there is a restaurant, it opened on date X, its chef is Y, it generally serves food of cuisine Z". There are others with different priorities, I know, but those are mine. Pyrope 14:54, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it is worth working on The Pop Shop. Prizes as "The Best Kids Menu" and "The Best of Philly" are not really convincing. It would be a better idea to incorporate the information in the article about the owner Stink Fisher. See for more info about this guy. Night of the Big Wind _talk 18:28, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

I have proposed some new edits on the Loyd Grossman article talk page . Could someone please have a read through my suggestions and confirm them before I make any edits? Thanks Lgwikirep (talk) 11:47, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

There are two separate (recently created) articles, List of Michelin three starred restaurants and List of Michelin two starred restaurants, which appear to be content splits from List of Michelin starred restaurants (without attribution). If that is the case and there is perceived to be a need for three separate articles listing these restaurants, I suggest that the split is properly attributed. If not, I suggest that the two sub-pages are redirected back to List of Michelin starred restaurants.--CharlieDelta (talk) 04:26, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

The list of 2-starred restaurants is so incomplete, that we are better off without is. Only France, Switserland and Monaco covered, why not Ireland and the Netherlands? The information is available (as I have written it myself). The list of 3-starred restaurants is in fact a copy: Duplication Detector I am going to nominate both articles. Night of the Big Wind _talk 21:47, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

The list of 2-starred restaurants is even worse: Duplication Detector Night of the Big Wind _talk 21:55, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

User:Oashi has tagged three pages for a merger without starting a discussion anywhere. The pages concerned are

• Kolache
• Kołacz
• Kalach (food)

I would like to invite comments from interested users here. Thank you. - Cloudz679 20:38, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

To me, it looks like three different products with different cultural backgrounds. A prior merger request has been denied in 2007 (). I don't see any reasoning why the situation has changed since that request. Night of the Big Wind _talk 22:34, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

And did anyone ask anyone of the people of the origin? I am half polish, half czech, for instance... ;) --Franta Oashi (talk) 20:39, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Well it's your request Oashi. Feel free to invite interested users from the various WikiProjects. I am just trying to clear the backlog. Cloudz679 14:45, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

• Comment: Despite the fact that these are all fairly short articles and that their names look similar, I think their subject matter is actually sufficiently different to not warrant a merge. The Czech and Polish foods are desserts with their own cultural histories, while Ukrainian/Russian kalach is savory and has unique ritualistic significance. (I'm Ukrainian, just to reveal any potential COI, heh – but I promise that's not why I'm arguing against the merge!) Accedie^{talk to me} 01:13, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose  – Each food has distinct geographic origins and unique cultural histories. The foods themselves are also differing; some are pastries and some are breads. Northamerica1000^(talk) 12:47, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose as these are different kinds of pastry.--Yopie (talk) 00:01, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Could someone please come over to this article and take a look. An other editor has been adding a ton of original research/unsourced materials to the article. I am trying to avoid a edit war, and need someone else to step in a nd take a look. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 09:14, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

hi everyone. I have proposed the merge of these two pages, according to the redirect that already exists on nl.wiki, and similar comments/evidences on the internet and also on a discussion page on fr.wiki. The merge has been proposed in parallel also on fr.wiki, it.wiki and es.wiki. the proposed main title would be stamppot (sorry Belgium :) )--Alexmar983 (talk) 12:30, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Go for it. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Indeed identical Night of the Big Wind _talk 17:55, 17 March 2012 (UTC) Still missing the "Stampot Boerenkool met speklapje en Groninger worst" due to "speklapje" en "Groninger worst" not being available in Ireland.

Both of you agree, another person in the discussion page agreed, people on it.wiki and fr.wiki agree too. I am going to do it in the WE. I can merge the content and create a redirect on the Stoemp page, but I hope I make no mistake with the right warning/note to put in the discussion page at the end of the process, that's my first merge on en.wiki. So I warn you after I've done it so you can check. --Alexmar983 (talk) 14:01, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok I didn't do it because there is a "problem" on fr.wiki (I answered in English there: so for the moment I stop for 7 days.--Alexmar983 (talk) 20:32, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I created Category:Food and drink by country for Category:Food and drink in Canada because it looked out of place in Category:Food and drink. It was all on its lonesome There is a need for a food and drink category for every country. It is a very important topic, and there are huge numbers of articles and categories that will benefit from it - as well as our readers of course. Mustn't forget them!. Bon Appétit! -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 00:10, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

How is this not redundant to Category:Cuisine by nationality ? MatthewVanitas (talk) 03:00, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Just place St Tola, Guiness and Haggis in the right categories and you see the difference. Night of the Big Wind _talk 03:06, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Good examples! -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 04:18, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

hihi, I have personally tested those those three. St. Tola is more or less around the corner Night of the Big Wind _talk 22:58, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

A country is not the same as a nationality. There is an overlap but they are in no way equivalent. Most, but not all of the Category:Cuisine by nationality enries will be sub-categories of Category:Food and drink by country. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 04:18, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello! I would like to expand the almond article, maybe attempt to get it to good article status eventually. My school background is in biology and crop science, so I feel like it would be a good article for me to work on. Trouble is that I don't have any idea how to write the section on culinary uses, which are undoubtedly going to be the most important sections for many, if not most, readers. I wouldn't want to short-change the section, so if there are any interested collaborators in this wikiproject, let me know! I don't have any experience with writing for a good article nomination, so help with that would be appreciated also.

This is what I'm thinking the general structure of the article should look like, but I am very open to suggestions. For example, it may be better to place uses ahead of production. I'm also unsure if it would be good to break up the uses section regionally, the way it is done in the article currently.

Species (Botany)

Etymology

Almond

Prunus dulcis

Tree description

Nut description and classification

Sweet and bitter almond

Evolution and domestication

Production

Cultivars

Lots of information on US varieties, trying to find sources on non-US varieties.

Dormancy

Pollination

Self-incompatability

Maturation and harvest

Storage

Pests and diseases (again, easy to find information on US diseases, less on everywhere else)

Uses

Bitter varieties

Almond oil

Almond syrup

Almond flour

Hulls and shells

Green almonds

Marzipan? Torrone? Almond milk? How much detail should the article go into? Do these deserve sub-headings?

Health and Nutrition

Nutrient content

Cholesterol

Other health benefits== Stub in need of attention ==

I know it's just one of thousands of stubs that need better referencing and overall coverage, but something about the fact that foam (culinary) is so poor makes me sad. ;) It's recently popular phenomenon, so sources in the New York Times or such should be easy to find. I took a first pass on it by adding a photo and doing some basic style work. Cheers, Steven Walling • talk 04:19, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

It's barely anything at the moment but if you have anything to add then drop me a line. Thanks Jenova20 10:20, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Step 1 will be the use of international measures in the article. As a European, I have not a clue how much an "oz" is. Night of the Big Wind _talk 11:18, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I haven't reworded anything yet, although i do plan to rewrite it. By the way we have "Oz" in the UK, but we're called Europeans a lot. Thanks Jenova20 11:46, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I was generalizing too much. As a Dutchman I am unfamiliar with the system used in GB. But as far as I know, they officially use meters and liters now Night of the Big Wind _talk 14:05, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes but there's others used in different situations. We use Grams and Kilograms for a lot of weights, but if you go to a sweet shop you can still use Ounces (Oz).

Still, this isn't anywhere near a final draft at the moment. Thanks Jenova20 14:13, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

- deleted article as not enough information (other than recipes) exists. Thanks Jenova20 18:05, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Why is the USDA constantly used? Many articles in general do not represent a world view. 174.226.202.182 (talk) 17:13, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

If I had to guess, I'd say the author in those cases is American, and the USDA represents a "reliable source".Boneyard90 (talk) 17:59, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I do know that in the older days people would put leftovers from their previous dinners into a meat loaf, but is this the very reason why people call Meatloaf leftovers, because in these days there are no leftovers in meatloaf?±√←→ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rayfryejr (talk • contribs) 17:59, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to be working on this article, which could do with some improvement ... notably citations. If anyone knows of any press coverage of this symposium, please, if possible, insert links or citations, under "external links" or "references" or on the talk page. Thanks in advance for any help -- Andrew Dalby 18:14, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

The article World's Finest Chocolate has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This article violates the policy on advertising, has no sources and there is no shown notability.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 19:57, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I know this project is about foods but would you count silly/crazy foods like some of the stuff done by 'Epic Meal Time', one of these weird foods I know of is called a pie sandwich and was very popular at a school I used to go to. ( Lunashy _{Friendship letters.} 01:33, 3 May 2012 (UTC))

Should 2008 US beef protest in South Korea merge with 2008 South Korean candlelight vigil? Please comment at Talk:2008 US beef protest in South Korea. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 01:56, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

User:TrueHistoryPoland has been pushing a Polish-centric view of Tripe soup as being a Polish dish. Though there is certainly a Polish tripe soup, I see no reason that the Polish version should be given special treatment. He has also repeatedly reverted to his version, stomping on other corrections to the article. Could some other editors please look in on the situation? Thanks, --Macrakis (talk) 04:03, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

There is a discussion over here on what food might best represent American cuisine. Please come offer your opinions. Thanks! ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:18, 18 May 2012 (UTC)