Talk:Digital Currency Group

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Hello Spintendo, thank you for your detailed review and comments. They are incredibly helpful. Below is the clarification you requested, as well as a few notes on other items. Hoping this is a good format for a response, but let me know if there is another preferred way. One question outside of comments to your feedback, the proposal to include an infobox did not receive any comment. Seeking feedback on inserting the proposed infobox.

An updated article draft that incorporates your comments, as well as the below suggestions, can be found here User:CertifiedTurtle/sandbox/dcg. CertifiedTurtle (talk) 21:01, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Response 06-04-2019

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Thanks for the feedback @Spintendo:. Your comments have been addressed below.

More information Extended content ...

Extended content

First, a general note that per WP:CS1, CS1 is not a required format. It would be helpful if you could point out specifically where the citations do not adhere to this format, as they were created with Wikipedia's own citation tool, which creates citations in CS1 format. The citations in the suggested changes to the article are consistent throughout. 1. The Pitchbook source does not list the "more than 100" companies. Response: The Pitchbook source does list this fact. It says, "Topping the list is New York-based Digital Currency Group with 127 blockchain-related deals worldwide since its founding in 2015, according to PitchBook data." If there is a rewrite that may be better suited, please suggest. Suggest this text remains the same, as follows. Founded in 2015, DCG has invested in more than 100 companies in the digital currency and blockchain industry and is the single largest venture capital investor in the industry.[1] Reply 10-JUN-2019 "Topping the list" is not the same phrase as "more than 100 companies".  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC) 2. The claim "first as an angel investor" implies that there is second item. This item is not listed in the request, thus it cannot be assured that adding the statement "first as an angel investor" will mesh appropriately with the article. Please provide the entire sentence along with the references formatted using CS1. Response: Suggest rewrite as follows. He began investing in bitcoin companies in 2013 as an angel investor,[2][3] providing funding for digital currency companies including Coinbase, BitPay, and Ripple.[4][5][6] Reply 10-JUN-2019 This phrasing is acceptable.  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC) 3. The source for this claim has not been included in the COI editor's response. Response: The sources were included in the original suggestion and there was no proposal to remove them. The suggested text above incorporates those sources. Reply 10-JUN-2019 It is not known what this response refers to.  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC) 4. A reason was not provided for adding these descriptors. Response: The purpose of adding these descriptors is to provide context and improve clarity about the work DCG performs. Since this is the first mention of these entities, it makes sense to state their purpose. This is common practice in Wikipedia when describing subsidiaries and business units, see Walmart#Subsidiaries and IBM#Products_and_services for examples. Suggest the text stays the same, adding a new source. Shortly after SecondMarket's sale, Silbert formed Digital Currency Group, with Genesis Global Trading, a digital currency over-the-counter trading firm, and Grayscale Investments, a digital currency asset management firm that manages the publicly traded Bitcoin Investment Trust (symbol: GBTC).[4][7][8] Reply 10-JUN-2019 The listing of names of companies does not improve clarity about the work DCG performs. The phrase "formed" does not elaborate on how this partnership worked.  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC) 5. The source for this claim has not been provided with the COI editor's response. Response: The sources were included in the original suggestion and there was no proposal to remove them. The response was just an attempt to clarify a suggestion. The suggested text below incorporates those sources. Digital Currency Group also served to house Silbert’s investments in 57 other seed-stage companies in the cryptocurrency and blockchain industry.[4][9] Reply 10-JUN-2019 It is not known what is meant by the phrase "house".  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC) 6. These sources have not been formatted to CS1. Response: The sources were formatted using Wikipedia's citation tool. They were proposed to be added to the page. Suggested article text, including sources, below. Genesis Global Trading is an over-the-counter trading service for digital currencies targeting institutions and high net worth individuals.[7][10] Reply 10-JUN-2019 This information on GGT is more apt for an article on that subject.  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC) 7. This response does not state what it is about giving readers a data point on the scale of the company's operations which makes this information useful. Response: This note is unclear. The purpose of including this information is to provide greater context on the services the company provides and the scale of those services, which is useful information for readers who wish to understand the nature of the Genesis subsidiary. As mentioned, many other pages have similar financial milestones that provides useful context in the same vein, such as Andreessen Horowitz (In less than two years, the company was managing a total of $1.2 billion under the two funds.), BlackRock (By the end of 1999, BlackRock was managing $165 billion in assets.) and Fidelity Investments (...and $32 billion in total defined contribution assets, as of 2015.). Another example is the McDonald's page which mentions when the company reached 100 billion hamburgers sold. Suggest keeping text same, as follows. Genesis loaned out more than $1 billion worth of digital currencies in less than a year after opening its loan desk in March 2018.[11] Reply 10-JUN-2019 The claim does not state what it is about Genesis loaning digital currencies in less than a year after opening the loan desk which provides for more "useful information" about DCG. Specifically, what is it about knowing that Genesis loans digital currencies which makes the information regarding DCG more useful.  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC) 8. The COI editor's definition has not been referenced. Response: The definition cited for "exposure" comes from the Investopedia article on the topic. Researching other definitions and resources will reveal that this definition is commonly accepted in the financial industry, similar to how the word Port in the computing industry has a specific definition that is not related to ships. To clarify this definition, propose linking to the Wikipedia stub on the same topic. See below under #9 for the proposed text. Reply 10-JUN-2019 I agree that readers wishing to know what the term exposure means ought not be expected to go elsewhere to find that term.  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC) 9. These references have not been formatted using CS1. Furthermore, it does not state what it is about Grayscale's single-asset investment products which "provides exposure". Response: References formatted above. Rewrote the sentence slightly to clarify that these are investment trusts which offer shares for purchase, which is how buyers gain exposure to the mentioned digital currencies. Grayscale’s single-asset investment trusts offer shares for purchase which that provide exposure to Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, Horizen, Litecoin, Stellar Lumens, XRP, and Zcash.[12][13] Reply 10-JUN-2019 It's still not clear what is meant by exposure.  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC) 10. The question regarding other Wikipedia articles cannot be answered because the other Wikipedia articles have not been mentioned. Response: I did link them in the original comment. They are here again for reference. The first citation on BlackRock and the third citation on IBM reference company financial reports. Grayscale also releases financial reports on the state of its investment products. For example, a 2018 report on the performance of its Bitcoin Investment Trust is here. These reports exist for each of their investment products - are they appropriate sources? I understand primary sources generally run counter to WP:NOR but when it comes to company financial data, these types of reports are widely sourced throughout various articles on companies. Reply 10-JUN-2019 The links have not been provided here on this talk page.  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC) Finally, I still have not received feedback on the inclusion of the infobox. Barring any comment, since this information is very straightforward, I am happy to include an infobox by making direct edits to the article. Reply 10-JUN-2019 Infobox information is usually very straightforward and needs only minimal review.  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Close

A sandbox page with all of these suggestions implemented in full is here for ease of reference. I appreciate your and other editors' review of these comments. CertifiedTurtle (talk) 20:33, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

References

1. [1]

   Agar, Ian (27 February 2019). "The top 10 VC investors in blockchain". Pitchbook. Retrieved 29 March 2019.
2. [2]

   Davies, Tyler (9 November 2015). "The 2015 Fintech Finance 35: Barry Silbert, Digital Currency Group". Institutional Investor. Retrieved 9 May 2019.
3. [3]

   Primack, Dan (23 September 2013). "First Bitcoin Investment Fund Launches". Fortune Ledger. Retrieved 29 March 2019.
4. [4]

   Eha, Brian (23 February 2016). "From Toxic Assets to Digital Currency: Barry Silbert's Bold Bet". American Banker. Retrieved 29 March 2019.
5. [5]

   Kim, Tae (18 July 2018). "Digital Currency Group's Silbert buys more bitcoin". CNBC. Retrieved 29 March 2019.
6. [6]

   "Barry Silbert". CNBC. 23 May 2014. Retrieved 9 May 2019.
7. [7]

   Tepper, Fitz (27 October 2015). "Barry Silbert Launches Digital Currency Group With Funding From MasterCard, Others". TechCrunch. Retrieved 18 April 2019.
8. [8]

   Morrell, Alex; Campbell, Dakin; Morris, Meghan (1 November 2018). "Meet 2018's Rising Stars of Wall Street shaking up investing, trading, and dealmaking". Business Insider. Retrieved 13 May 2019.
9. [9]

   Primack, Dan (27 October 2015). "SecondMarket founder launches bitcoin conglomerate". Fortune. Retrieved 29 March 2019.
10. [10]

    Chaparro, Frank; Todd, Ryan (7 May 2019). "A Conversation with Michael Moro, CEO of Genesis Global Trading". The Block. Retrieved 9 May 2019.
11. [11]

    Shi, Madeline (30 January 2019). "The bitcoin market is in turmoil, but crypto lenders are thriving". Business Insider. Retrieved 17 April 2019.
12. [12]

    Suberg, William (18 January 2019). "Grayscale Adds Stellar as Latest Cryptocurrency Investment Trust". Cointelegraph. Retrieved 9 May 2019.
13. [13]

    "Grayscale launches Stellar Lumens investment trust". The Block. 17 January 2019. Retrieved 9 May 2019.

I've taken another look at these questions here and provided boxed responses directly under the comments. Regards,  Spintendo  06:33, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Hi,

I’d like to request that an independent editor review the following proposals for updates to this article. As disclosed above, I have a conflict of interest as a paid consultant to Digital Currency Group. I am aware that there has been a problem on Wikipedia with promotional content about cryptocurrency. In this case, though, I have almost entirely mainstream press, such as The Wall Street Journal, Barrons, CNBC.com, Reuters. All of the proposed updates below are about the Grayscale subsidiary, which is the largest asset manager in the world for digital currency, and is closely regulated because of its publicly-traded funds. I am posting notice of this request to WikiProjects because anything related to digital currency is somewhat controversial so not ideal for Request Edit.

1. In the Subsidiaries section, please change the title “Grayscale”

TO:

Grayscale Investments

Rationale: Corrects name of Digital Currency Group Subsidiary.

 Done This was completed by @Graywalls: on October 18. Z1720 (talk) 19:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

2. In the Subsidiaries section, Grayscale subsection, please replace first sentence that reads: “Established in 2013, Grayscale is a digital currency investing firm.”

WITH:

Established in 2013, Grayscale Investments is a digital currency asset manager.^[1][2] As of November 2019, it was the world’s largest asset manager for digital currency, managing assets of $2.7 billion.^[3]

Rationale: Corrects name of company. Describes Grayscale Investments as a digital currency “asset manager” because Grayscale primarily works with managing the money of investors on a specific type of asset investment, in this case digital currency. This is the definition of an asset manager. An investment firm, by contrast, focuses on the underwriting of investments, not specifically managing client’s money. So the current description of the company is wrong.

Partly done I did not use the Barrons or WSJ sources because they are behind a paywall. However, the Reuters article verified it so I referenced that for both sentences. Z1720 (talk) 19:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

3. In the Subsidiaries section, Grayscale subsection, after the first sentence that begins: “Established in 2013, Grayscale is a digital currency investing firm.”

PLEASE ADD:

It offers funds both privately for institutional and accredited investors ^[4], and as publicly-traded, regulated products available to the public.^[5]

“Rationale”: Updates the article to state that the company now has funds that trade on public exchanges offered to the public, not just private investors.

 Not done I could not verify the info in the Barrons article because it is behind a paywall, so I did not include either sentence in the interest of WP:UNDUE. Z1720 (talk) 19:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Partly done I did not add "accredited" because it was not supported by the source. I removed "regulated" because everything in Wall Street is regulated so it's redundant. I removed "available to the public" as redundant. Z1720 (talk) 02:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

4. In the Subsidiaries section, Grayscale subsection, please replace the third sentence and sources, which currently reads, “The Trust trades under symbol: GBTC on the OTCQX market, and is only available to accredited investors.^[6][7]

WITH:

The Trust trades under the symbol GBTC on the OTCQX market and is available to individual and institutional investors.^[8] As of January 21, 2020, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust became the first digital currency financial product to become a Securities and Exchange Commission reporting company.^[9][10]

Rationale: Updates with the fact GBTC is publicly traded and available to all individual and institutional investors, not just accredited investors (as currently in the article); Removes outdated source. Adds SEC regulation, another significant event in history of the mainstreaming of cryptocurrency investing and, in the history of this company.

 Not done WSJ and law360 are behind a paywall so I cannot verify the information. The Pionline article is reporting on what Greyscale is telling them, and thus did not verify the information themselves and are not considered WP:SECONDARY. Wikipedia can only support claims that are independently verified. Z1720 (talk) 19:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done "and is only available to accredited investors" has already been removed from the article. The other sources do not verify the second sentence, so I have not added it. Z1720 (talk) 02:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

5. In the Subsidiaries section, Grayscale subsection, following the current third sentence (“The Trust trades under…”) please add:

As of 2019, four of Grayscale’s funds trade publicly on the OTCQX, an American financial marketplace, and were approved by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, a nongovernmental agency.^{[11] [12]}

Rationale: Updates with Grayscale receiving approval by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, a nongovernmental regulatory firm that is very prominent, for a publicly-traded fund, a notable milestone in the financial services industry and the history of this company.

Partly done I only used the FA-mag as a source because of the paywall issue with Barrons. I reworded the section to help with prose. Z1720 (talk) 19:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

? Does anything in this sentence need to be assessed for the article? I think the sentence I included already covers this. Z1720 (talk) 02:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

6. In the Subsidiaries section, Grayscale subsection, as the new fifth sentence following the proposed new fourth sentence (“As of 2019, four of…)

PLEASE ADD:

In 2018, Grayscale launched the Grayscale Digital Large Cap Fund, a fund for the public to invest in a basket of the most prominent digital currencies.^[13][14] The fund gained the approval of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority to start trading on the public markets in October 2019. ^{[15] [16]}

Rationale: Another significant milestone in the maturation of cryptocurrency as a mainstream financial product. Also, a significant event in the history of this company. While there are two sources here - Barron’s and Yahoo News -- please note that the policy against using search engines as sources does not apply to Yahoo News, which in its modern incarnation, is a professional news organization, doing their own original reporting, with well-regarded reporters and editors.The Barrons source is enough without Yahoo News, but I thought I’d explain why I included it too.

Partly done Barron reference was not used, but information was verified by Yahoo Finance. I did some slight rewording. Z1720 (talk) 19:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your consideration! CertifiedTurtle (talk) 19:17, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi @CertifiedTurtle:, thanks for declaring your paid editing and using the request edit template. I have added notes under each section above explaining if I added the information. If you have any questions please post them below or on my talk page. Happy editing! Z1720 (talk) 19:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Z1720:. Thank you very much for your careful review of the Request Edits for Talk:Digital Currency Group#Corrections and Updates for Review July 17.

I have one new request and below the request, full text of articles you were unable to access.

1. In the “Grayscale” section, in the first paragraph, after this sentence:

They were reported as the world’s largest asset manager for digital currency in November 2019, managing assets of $2.7 billion.

please add:

As of January 2021, Grayscale was reported to be managing assets of $20.2 billion.^[17]

Explanation: the massive growth is a significant event in the company history and was reported on by a highly credible source, CNBC.

 Done with some copyediting. Z1720 (talk) 02:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

2. In order to make it possible for you to complete the review of requests 2, 3, 4 and 5, which reference unavailable content behind paywalls, I am pasting it in full, below. As you know, sources aren’t always available for free online -- for example the many long books used for historical articles. But they are still good as sources if they meet the criteria of WP: Reliable. The Wall Street Journal and Barrons are both very high quality sources The WSJ even specifically appears on the list of acceptable perennial sources as determined by consensus discussions. Barron’s (newspaper) is a sister publication to the Wall Street Journal, both published by Dow Jones & Company. I have also pasted in the lead text of the Law360 article -- it is a newer publication, but owned by a very prominent legal research firm, Lexis-Nexis.

I hope with these sources below you will be able to complete the review! CertifiedTurtle (talk) 21:36, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks again. CertifiedTurtle (talk) 21:36, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi @CertifiedTurtle: I removed the article texts from the page due to copyright concerns. Instead, please email pdfs of the articles here. Thanks! Z1720 (talk) 23:19, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi CertifiedTurtle I received your email with the Barrons and WSJ sources. I made notes above under each relevant section. Except for one section, I think I have assessed everything. Please let me know if something was missed and please check to make sure everything is correct in the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi Z1720. Thanks for doing this review! As might be expected in any review, there were some things that were overlooked. I have included clarifications below so you can look at these again.

1. For request edit #2, CNN Business, Bloomberg and a new Reuters article all state Grayscale is the world’s largest crypto asset manager.^[1][2][3] Can you please update the sentence to reflect that, since there are now multiple sources?

 Done I added the CNN source, so we do not overref.

2. For Request Edit #3, I think you unintentionally overlooked paragraph four of the CNBC source^[4], which states: “Grayscale’s nine cryptocurrency products are only available to accredited investors.” A Financial Times article ^[5] also states “‘accredited investors’ who pass income or assets tests can access the trust through private placements…” (Text behind paywall below)

It’s important for the article to include “accredited investors” in order to be accurate. While all institutions are accredited, not all accredited investors are institutions; they can be family offices or wealthy individuals. As you know, books and articles, especially from prestigious sources, are not all available for free online. But that doesn’t disqualify them from being used as sources -- otherwise, Wikipedia would have to not include many of the most reliable sources available: WP: RS.

Here is the relevant text from the Financial Times, in case you are over your limit of free stories for the month:

• "Individual investors buy into Grayscale’s trusts much as they would an exchange-traded fund, in relatively small amounts at market prices."

• "However, “accredited investors” who pass income or asset tests can access the trust through private placements, buying large blocks of shares at a price equivalent to the amount of the cryptocurrency in their slice of a trust, as long they agree to a lock-up period that typically spans several months, according to a prospectus seen by the FT."

 Done

3. For Request Edit #4, regarding “first SEC-reporting digital currency trust,” Forbes says “In January, the same Grayscale Bitcoin Trust whose clients had already been filing 13Fs became an SEC reporting company, making it the first bitcoin firm to file quarterly 10-Qs and annual 10-Ks with the regulator, shedding new light on the internal structure of institutional bitcoin adoption.”^[6] The article is by Forbes staff, not contributor.

 Done

Thanks for your help! CertifiedTurtle (talk) 00:22, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

I've added number 1 and 2, I'll look at the rest later. Z1720 (talk) 21:50, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi CertifiedTurtle sorry for the delay, I added #3. Z1720 (talk) 19:32, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

I work with Digital Currency Group and would like to propose some changes to this Wikipedia page. Can an independent editor please review these suggested edits?

1. Please adjust the following standard Company Infobox as follows (please see flush right for the complete Infobox):

 Done I made some of the infobox change. Ginvilla (talk) 18:47, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

2. In the Subsidiaries section, under the Grayscale Investments subsection, the third sentence in the first paragraph contains both out-of-date information and out-of-date sources. Please change:

From:

They are the world’s largest asset manager for digital currency^[1][2] and in January 2021 Grayscale reported that they were managing $20.2 billion in assets.^[3]

To:

They were the world’s largest asset manager for digital currency, as of December 2021, with more than $50 billion in assets under management at the time.^[4]

 Done I made this change. Ginvilla (talk)

3. In the Subsidiaries section, Grayscale Investments subsection, the sixth sentence in the first paragraph is out-of-date, since six (not four) of Grayscale’s funds are now available for public trading via the OTCQX market. Please change:

From:

Four of Grayscale’s funds trade publicly on the OTCQX and the Trust trades under symbol GBTC^[5][6]

To:

As of April 2021, six of Grayscale’s funds were traded publicly on the OTCQX market: the Bitcoin Cash, the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust, the Grayscale Ethereum Trust, the Grayscale Ethereum Classic Trust, the Grayscale Digital Large Cap Fund, and the Grayscale Litecoin Trust.^[7]

 Done I made this edit. Ginvilla (talk) 18:53, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

4. In the Subsidiaries section, Grayscale Investments subsection, the last two sentences of the first paragraph are not in chronological order. And, the existing second sentence about the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority approving “they” for public trading in 2019 is not supported by the source. The proposed replacement sentence specifies “they” refers to the Bitcoin Trust, in 2015, and provides a source.

From:

On January 21, 2020, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust became the first digital currency financial product to become a Securities and Exchange Commission reporting company.^[8] They were approved for public trading by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority in 2019.^[9]

To:

Grayscale Bitcoin Trust was approved for public trading by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority in 2015.^[10][11] On January 21, 2020, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust became the first digital currency financial product to become a Securities and Exchange Commission reporting company.^[8]

The Wall Street Journal article cited above is behind a paywall. This is what it says:

Barry Silbert’s Bitcoin Investment Trust is poised to become the first publicly traded bitcoin fund, with approval and assignment of a ticker symbol by the financial industry’s main self-regulatory body paving the way for trading on an electronic platform operated by OTC Markets Group. The BIT, which was first launched in 2013 as a private fund for accredited investors with annual incomes greater than $200,000 or assets of more than $1 million, has been racing against a rival offering by twins Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, best known for their lawsuit against Facebook Inc. Chief Executive Mark Zuckerberg.

 Done - this edit is done. Ginvilla (talk) 18:56, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

5. In the History section, please add a new second paragraph (just one sentence). As described in Bloomberg (a first-tier editorial source), Digital Currency Group is a major investor in >160 cryptocurrency firms. A brief description of this significant part of its business seems encyclopedic.

As of November 2021, Digital Currency Group had made over 200 investments in other cryptocurrency companies.^[12]

 Done - this edit is done. Ginvilla (talk) 18:58, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

6. The History section does not have information about the recent move of the company HQ from New York City to Stamford, Connecticut, which was covered by reliable press sources. Please add the following paragraph to the end of the History section:

In December 2021, Digital Currency Group moved its corporate headquarters from New York City to Stamford, Connecticut. The governor of Connecticut at the time, Ned Lamont, provided financial incentives for the company to relocate to Stamford, including a $5 million grant from the state government if Digital Currency Group created at least 300 full-time jobs in the state.^[4]

Partly done - Someone else has already part of this. Ginvilla (talk) 19:03, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

7. The present Subsidiaries section of the article is missing “Foundry” even though it is covered in high-quality press sources. Please add the following to the Subsidiaries section as as a third subsection:

===Foundry===

Foundry, established in 2019, sets up and manages bitcoin mining operations in the United States and Canada.^[13] In addition to setting up and operating its own cryptocurrency mining equipment, Foundry also provides financing, specialized digital mining equipment, and expertise to other digital currency startups.^[14] Mike Colyer was the CEO of Foundry from its launch.^[13]

In the summer of 2021, Foundry helped to relocate over $300 million worth of equipment from China to North America following the Chinese government shutting down many cryptocurrency mining operations.^[15]

 Done - with exception of CEO info, as it maybe too much info. Ginvilla (talk) 19:13, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

8. The present Subsidiaries section of the article is missing “Genesis” even though it is covered in high-quality press sources. Please add the following to the Subsidiaries section as as a fourth subsection:

===Genesis===

Genesis is a digital currency brokerage firm that manages cryptocurrency trading and lending.^[16] It primarily services institutional investors.^[17] In May 2020, Genesis acquired Volt, a London-based company that specializes in the secure holding of digital currency assets, called cryptocurrency custody.^[17] As of August 2021, the CEO of Genesis was Michael Moro.^[16]

This is from the cited Business Insider article, which is paywalled:

Micheal Moro [sic] is noticing a shift in crypto trading behaviours. As CEO of Genesis Trading, a crypto trading and lending firm, he’s privy to how big institutions are choosing to spend their money.

 Done - with exception of CEO info, as it maybe too much info. Ginvilla (talk) 19:13, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

9. The present Subsidiaries section of the article is missing “Luno” even though it is covered in high-quality press sources. Please add the following to the Subsidiaries section as as a fifth subsection:

===Luno===

In September 2020 Digital Currency Group acquired Luno, a cryptocurrency exchange based in London, with other operations in Cape Town and Singapore.^[18][19] At the time of the acquisition, Luno had more than 5 million customers.^[18]

Here are relevant extracts from the two cited Bloomberg articles:

Bloomberg 1:

Naspers Ltd.-backed cryptocurrency exchange Luno has been acquired by New York-based digital asset investment firm Digital Currency Group, according to a company release seen by Bloomberg…

Luno, based in London with hubs in Singapore and Cape Town, has almost 400 employees and more than five million customers, according to the report. The firm is also backed by technology investor Naspers, as well as others including Balderton Capital UK LLP, Rand Merchant Investment Holdings Ltd. and Venturra Capital, according to Luno’s

Website.

Bloomberg 2:

It will be a challenge for users to actually coordinate and act out such a plan, said Vijay Ayyar, head of Asia Pacific with crypto exchange Luno in Singapore.

 Done - all done. Ginvilla (talk) 19:19, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

10. In the lead to the article, please add the following as the new last sentence to reflect all company subsidiaries, as proposed in the above requests. WP:LEAD

The company’s five subsidiaries are CoinDesk, Foundry, Genesis, Grayscale Investments, and Luno.

 Done - also done. Ginvilla (talk) 19:19, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your consideration. CertifiedTurtle (talk) 19:08, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

The section Digital Currency Group#Allegations of lending malfeasance is libelous, fails WP: Verification and WP:RS, and needs to be immediately removed. It is based on a self-published blog by an anonymous non-expert with 100 followers, which is a completely unacceptable source according to WP:RSSELF. Medium is a self-publishing publishing platform similar to WordPress or Tumblr - while some editorial sites use it, in this case the blogger is entirely self-published, without any editorial or expert credentials. The blogger states that the post, alleging “malfeasance”, was written as “speculation”. I have a COI as a paid consultant and don’t want to risk violating WP:COI by removing myself, although I think I would be justified in doing so under WP:Libel. Z1720, as the editor to most recently review proposals for this page, are you able to assist? Help from any editor is appreciated. Thanks.CertifiedTurtle (talk) 16:07, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

These are all certainly valid concerns. I don't know enough about the matter to directly assist, but it's obvious that someone has an axe to grind. kencf0618 (talk) 16:56, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I’d like to discuss corrections and updates to this article, as well as a small reorganization of a section. A division of DCG Called Genesis Global Capital filed for Chapter 11 and the SEC filed a complaint against it. This is a major development and should be included in the Digital Currency Group#Genesis Global Capital subsection of this article. I have a COI, as disclosed above.

But the opening chapter of these events are currently in another section at the bottom of the article called Digital Currency Group#Repercussions of FTX bankruptcy. In order to update the Genesis section completely, correctly sourced and verifiable information needs to be brought together into the same section. (Specifically, the third sentence in the FTX section reads like Genesis received a $1 billion loan, when they only sought one.) And it makes the most sense for it to be under Genesis Global Capital rather than in a new section at the bottom of the article. In addition, unsourced info should be removed.

Here’s my suggestion for what this new final paragraph for the Genesis subsection would look like:

• On November 17, 2022, days after FTX filed for bankruptcy, The Wall Street Journal reported that it had obtained confidential documents stating that Genesis was undergoing an "ongoing run on deposits."^[1][2] The Wall Street Journal reported on November 21, 2022 that Genesis had sought a $1 billion emergency loan.^[1][3][4] On January 12 2023, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission alleged in a complaint that Genesis Capital and the cryptocurrency exchange [[Gemini (company)|Gemini] offered and sold unregistered securities through a Gemini product called Earn.^[5] On January 19, 2023, Genesis filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.^[6][7]

Once this information is moved into the Genesis section, there’s no other properly sourced information left in Digital Currency Group#Repercussions of FTX bankruptcy. The first sentence in that current section is sourced solely to a tweet. The second sentence has no source (another editor removed a cryptocurrency publication as unreliable.) on January 20, 2023 by User:David Gerard. The final sentence will be moved to the proposed new final paragraph of the “Genesis Global Capital” section.

Therefore the current “Repercussions of FTX bankruptcy” section should be removed. CertifiedTurtle (talk) 23:08, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

I have a subscription to the WSJ and will have a look at these COI suggestions. I agree that a tweet isn't adequate sourcing.

As for the removal of a cryptocurrency publication: Yes, I understand David Gerard's point, but I think it is time for CoinDesk to be assessed for inclusion as a WP:RS. The editor-in-chief of CoinDesk is the former editor-in-chief of American Banker and has been in that role since 2018 or maybe longer. I don't know if we should hold up this article edit due to waiting on that to work its way through the usual RS noticeboard discussions though!

I'll stop by here in a day or two, to see if any other editors would like to share thoughts or information on the last part of Turtle's suggested edit. The suggested sentences in the first part look good to me, after some minor format corrections. I can do that part of the update.--FeralOink (talk) 06:09, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

I think it is time for CoinDesk to be assessed for inclusion as a WP:RS This was discussed on WP:RSN just recently and the response was "no," but if you have an argument you think can swing it, feel free to try - David Gerard (talk) 00:55, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

David Gerard I didn't realize that CoinDesk was owned by Digital Currency Group until just now. Please disregard my prior remarks. Thank you for linking me to that discussion.--FeralOink (talk) 15:27, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

@FeralOink: @David Gerard: Another editor has added a couple of paragraphs about the Genesis bankruptcy and restructuring to the subsection about Genesis Global Capital. It’s now very obvious that the section at the bottom of the article about the role of FTX bankruptcy is part of the chronology of the history of Genesis. It doesn’t make sense to separate out two closely related events in the history of Genesis into two different sections. The position of the proposed paragraph above would now be the new fourth paragraph of the Genesis Global Capital subsection.

The last sentence proposed above in the new paragraph about the Genesis bankruptcy is now redundant. However, the paragraph that replaces it in the Genesis Global Capital subsection uses an unreliable WP:PRIMARY source (Kroll.com) which can easily be replaced with a reliable secondary one (Reuters). Here’s the identical paragraph but with the Kroll source replaced:

On January 19, 2023, Genesis Global Capital, Genesis Global Holdco and Genesis Asia Pacific filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, citing over 100,000 creditors and liabilities of between $1 billion and $10 billion.^[8][9]

By the way, the current final paragraph relies entirely on a BusinessWire press release for its factual content. (There is a good CNBC source cited at the end of that paragraph, but it does not support the statements in the paragraph.) CertifiedTurtle (talk) 21:59, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

@FeralOink: @David Gerard: Since nobody else has weighed in on this discussion since March 2, would either of you be willing to please implement the suggestions above? There seems to be agreement that the problems with Twitter, CoinDesk and the press release as unreliable sources need to be fixed. My suggested language above contains none of these. And chronologically, the info in this section fits perfectly in the Genesis section, where the closely related events are already recounted. Thanks! CertifiedTurtle (talk) 22:06, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi, CertifiedTurtle. I'm sorry. You're right, it has been an awful long time. I see your comment of 15 March and will review the language you want to have changed by end of day tomorrow.--FeralOink (talk) 17:36, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I proposed changes to this article in February, which were reviewed by User:David Gerard and User:FeralOink but nothing was ever implemented. As I noted then, I have a COI. Since there’s been no movement on this since May 1, I’m posting requests again, although I have modified them because there have been significant changes on the page since the original proposal. Thanks for your attention to this!

• First of all, please remove the first two sentences of Paragraph 2 of the Digital Currency Group#Repercussions of FTX Bankruptcy: 2022 subsection:

“On November 10, 2022, DCG subsidiary Genesis Trading posted to their official Twitter feed that they had lost approximately $175 million dollars in the 2022 bankruptcy of Bahamas-based cryptocurrency exchange FTX.^[1] The company claimed that "This does not impact our market-making activities."

These sentences are based on a tweet – which is not an allowable source on Wikipedia – or simply unsourced. (The WSJ article cited after the next sentence doesn’t support this statement.) So they should be removed.

• Second, the remainder of that same subsection concerns events that did not directly involve DCG corporate activity, any more than other events at their subsidiaries. There are subsections for each subsidiary under “Subsidiary”. By having that event here: 1) the corporate history of the parent company becomes unnecessarily complicated and 2) the subsidiary section for Genesis is missing critical information, making it incomplete. Looking forward on the page, in 2023, the DCG corporate office did become directly involved in events concerning Genesis. This later events are appropriate to keep in the corporate section.

Therefore, I propose that the rest of the subsection should be relocated as part of the Digital Currency Group#Genesis Global Capital subsection, instead.

Thanks for your time in reviewing these suggestions! CertifiedTurtle (talk) 22:22, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi there, it looks like you've been waiting a long time here so I'll try to make myself available to help out.

While it's true that Tweets are usually not acceptable sources, it's acceptable to cite them under certain circumstances. This Tweet, though, isn't really adequate. It doesn't actually suggest that money was "lost" like the article prose does. I'll try to improve this area, but I don't think it will be a one-and-done fix.

I also think we could have better subheadings in the History section. I'm actually not at all familiar with the article subject, Genesis, or FTX, so I'd like to get some reading in before making any bigger changes, but I will try to fix the Tweet problem forthwith. 3df (talk) 05:09, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Eek sorry! It has been a long time, CertifiedTurtle. David Gerard is busy with his career as a bitcoin expose journalist (no insult intended). I'm so sorry for not getting back to this sooner. Let me see what I can do here. Might you know if Genesis Global Capital is the company that was owned by the Winklevii and offered digital currency custodial services? I am referring to this company, Gemini (yes, I am Math Troll on Quora) and whether they are still in business or not? --FeralOink (talk) 12:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much, FeralOink. I do know that Gemini and Genesis are two separate companies, and Digital Currency Group, which operated Genesis, is not involved with Gemini. Let me know if any other info might be helpful! CertifiedTurtle (talk) 15:34, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello, CertifiedTurtle. Happy New Year to you! I figured out the relationship between Gemini and Genesis. You are correct, and it is messy! I made the edits you requested, with some minor content corrections and rephrasing for clarity. Please have a look. Tell me if you're happy with it, or if I muddled the rather complicated history of DCG's uh... consolidation and downsizing. Or if you want any additional changes or corrections. Thank you.--FeralOink (talk) 20:20, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

CertifiedTurtle, are my edits satisfactory to you? I never heard anything back, after my last update in 6 January 2024.--FeralOink (talk) 20:30, 5 August 2024 (UTC)