Talk:Don Ienner

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool as Stub-class because it uses a stub template. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.

GarrettEye (talk · contribs)

Edit requests to Introduction and Early career sections

Hi, it's nice to meet you! I'm Garrett Ienner, (Don Ienner's son) and my understanding is that I should make suggestions here rather than make any changes myself because I'm connected to the subject. I believe there are some important updates and additions to be made, and am listing them below with sources. Happy to discuss anything with you all.

Please add my father's birth year, 1951, to the first line of the article. I can give you the exact birthdate, of course, but I read that without a good source, Wikipedia can't use any personal information I might have about my father. I was only able to find a good source that says his age, and from there you can calculate the year he was born. The line should look like this:

Don Ienner (/ˈaɪnər/ EYE-nər; born 1951 ^[1])

The following list of notable performers whose careers he promoted:

Ienner promoted artists including Bob Dylan, Mariah Carey, Beyoncé, Whitney Houston, Lauryn Hill, Bruce Springsteen,^[1] Leonard Cohen, Jeff Buckley,^[2] Tony Bennet,^[3] Miles Davis,^[4] Carly Simon, Grateful Dead,^[5] Robert Johnson,^[6] and Alice in Chains.^[7]

The reference to restaurants in the introduction (beginning at "As of 2012…") should likely be removed. There is no source to support this, so it would make more sense for the last sentence to read as follows, with the same source as is on the page now:

As of 2012, Ienner was a music business consultant, and a principal in an advertising agency.

His career in music began when he was still in high school, a fact which is covered in the current source in the Early career section. Let's include that context as follows:

In 1969, Ienner began his career in the music industry by taking a job in the mailroom of Capitol Records while still in high school.

Another small thing- In the last sentence of the Early career section, "Jimmy Ienner" is repetitive. We already know Jimmy Ienner is my dad's brother from the first paragraph of the section.

References

[1]
Philips, Chuck (29 January 2001). "Passion for Music Drives Columbia Chief to Make Plenty of Industry Noise". Los Angeles Times.
[2]
Runtagh, Jordan (23 August 2019). "Jeff Buckley's 'Grace': 10 Things You Didn't Know". Rolling Stone.
[3]
Gallo, Phil (21 July 2023). "Tony Bennett, legendario intérprete del Gran Cancionero Americano, muere a los 96 años". Billboard.
[4]
Leeds, Jeff (30 July 2004). "Sony and BMG Start Building Their Odd Music Club". The New York Times.
[5]
Oppelaar, Justin (14 April 2003). "Sony taps tune topper". Variety.
[6]
St. George, Donna (15 March 1991). "Country Bluesman's Legacy Gives New Life To Music's Birthplace". The Seattle Times.
[7]
Amorosi, A.D. (9 November 2012). "Alice in Chains Celebrates 30th Anniversary of 'Dirt' and 'How F—ing Weird It Is' to Have the Classic Album Re-Enter the Top 10". Variety.

I hope I did this correctly. Thank you for your help! GarrettEye (talk) 13:15, 2 November 2023 (UTC) ~

I've implemented most of the changes --FMSky (talk) 14:36, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much FMSky for implementing almost all of my edit request above. Could you explain to me why you left out the list of performing artists whose careers were positively affected by my father? I think his influence on the careers of some of the most popular musicians in modern times is a key component of what makes him notable, and belongs in the introduction. I would love to understand why you disagree? All the best, GarrettEye (talk) 15:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Columbia Records & Sony Music section

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Hi again. I would like to request the following edits be made to the Columbia Records & Sony Music section, adding noteworthy information.

In the first sentence of the section, replace the word "named" with the following:

hired by Sony Music Chairman Thomas D. Mottola^[1] as

Please add the following three paragraphs directly after the first paragraph in the same section:

Within days of becoming president of Columbia in 1989, Ienner began promoting the band Poi Dog Pondering.^[2]

In 1990, the hard-rock band Warrant dedicated the title song of its album “Cherry Pie” to Ienner.^[3] The same year, Ienner vigorously promoted female pop-star Mariah Carey and her eponymous debut album.^[4]

In December 1990, Ienner announced a $10,000 donation from Columbia to the Mount Zion Memorial Fund, with an additional $7,000 contributed one month later. The money was used to pay off the debt of a small church in Mississippi and erect a memorial to legendary blues musician Robert Johnson in the church's cemetery.^[5]

Please add the following four paragraphs directly after the paragraph that begins "In 1994, Ienner was promoted to chairman of Columbia Records…"

In 1997, Ienner was looking for a new song for a Billy Joel greatest hits album, and after reaching out to Bob Dylan, acquired "Make You Feel My Love", one of the 10 most covered songs by Dylan.^[6]^[7]

Ienner was instrumental in the success of Bob Dylan’s 1997 Columbia release of “Time Out of Mind” which won three Grammy Awards, including Best Album of the Year.^[8]

In 2001, Ienner signed Train and promoted their second album “Drops of Jupiter,” which was certified double platinum, with the single “Drops of Jupiter” from the album winning two Grammy Awards in 2002.^[9]

Ienner signed and promoted the careers of Taylor Dayne,^[4] Bruce Springsteen, John Mayer, Beyoncé and Destiny’s Child.^[10]^[11]

References

[1]
Philips, Chuck (29 January 2001). "Passion for Music Drives Columbia Chief to Make Plenty of Industry Noise". Los Angeles Times.
[2]
Biddy, Patricia (22 May 1990). "Poi Dog progress report: Mongrel music no longer". Honolulu Star Bulletin.
[3]
Goldstein, Patrick (2 September 1990). "SEARCH WARRANT: Who's the latest member of..." Los Angeles Times.
[4]
Tannenbaum, Rob (23 August 1990). "Mariah Carey: Building the Perfect Diva". Rolling Stone.
[5]
St. George, Donna (15 March 1991). "Country Bluesman's Legacy Gives New Life To Music's Birthplace". The Seattle Times.
[6]
Browne, David (28 October 2019). "How Bob Dylan's 'Make You Feel My Love' Became a Modern Standard". Rolling Stone.
[7]
Murray, Robin (20 February 2023). "Here's The Real Reason Why Bob Dylan Gave Away 'Make You Feel My Love'". Clashmusic.com.
[8]
Haver Currin, Grayson (March 2023). "Not Dark Yet". No. 352. Mojo magazine. pp. 68–80.
[9]
Beviglia, Jim (December 2020). "Behind The Song: "Drops Of Jupiter (Tell Me)" By Train". American Songwriter.
[10]
"Beyonce Addresses Dad, Sony Execs at Masterful Second Roseland Show". The Hollywood Reporter. 17 August 2011.
[11]
Leeds, Jeff (2 December 2005). "Sony BMG to Revamp Management at Labels". The New York Times.

Thanks again, GarrettEye (talk) 20:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Reply 25-DEC-2023

Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes within the proposal review section below for information on each request.

More information Edit request review 25-DEC-2023 ...

Edit request review 25-DEC-2023

hired by Sony Music Chairman Thomas D. Mottola as
Approved.^{[note 1]}

Within days of becoming president of Columbia in 1989, Ienner began promoting the band Poi Dog Pondering.
Declined.^{[note 2]}

In 1990, the hard-rock band Warrant dedicated the title song of its album “Cherry Pie” to Ienner.
Approved.^{[note 3]}

The same year, Ienner vigorously promoted female pop-star Mariah Carey and her eponymous debut album.
Declined.^{[note 4]}

In December 1990, Ienner announced a $10,000 donation from Columbia to the Mount Zion Memorial Fund, with an additional $7,000 contributed one month later. The money was used to pay off the debt of a small church in Mississippi and erect a memorial to legendary blues musician Robert Johnson in the church's cemetery.
Declined.^{[note 5]}

In 1997, Ienner was looking for a new song for a Billy Joel greatest hits album, and after reaching out to Bob Dylan, acquired "Make You Feel My Love", one of the 10 most covered songs by Dylan.
Declined.^{[note 6]}

Ienner was instrumental in the success of Bob Dylan’s 1997 Columbia release of “Time Out of Mind” which won three Grammy Awards, including Best Album of the Year.
Declined.^{[note 7]}

In 2001, Ienner signed Train and promoted their second album “Drops of Jupiter,” which was certified double platinum, with the single “Drops of Jupiter” from the album winning two Grammy Awards in 2002.
Approved.^{[note 8]}

Ienner signed and promoted the careers of Taylor Dayne, Bruce Springsteen, John Mayer, Beyoncé and Destiny’s Child.
Declined.^{[note 9]}

___________

[1]

[2]
It is not known what is meant by the phrase "began promoting".

[3]

[4]
It's not clear how the action of "vigorously promoting" differs from what a person positioned as head of a record company would normally do.

[5]
The Seattle Times source quotes Ienner as saying of this payment, "This is our way of acknowledging a debt that's long overdue." The repayment of debts ought not be considered as a donation.

[6]
Ienner "reaching out to Dylan" is not confirmed in the provided reference.

[7]
It is not known what is meant by the word "instrumental".

[8]

[9]
It's not entirely clear from the provided sources that Ienner was the one who "signed them."

Regards, Spintendo 07:36, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Spintendo for implementing some of my suggested edits. I will try and address your concerns about the ones you did not implement, and hopefully you will be able to implement the rest.

The source supporting the sentence about "Poi Dog Pondering" says about Ienner that: "He was at his new job for less than 48 hours when he heard the Poi Dog tape and decided to make the band his cause celebre." The next several paragraphs go on to explain the many activities Ienner engaged in to sign a contract with the band. Here is a re-written version that more accurately describes what happened according to the source:

In 1989, after less than 2 days as president of Columbia Records, Ienner listened to a recording of Poi Dog Pondering. Subsequently, he signed the band, and worked to make it Columbia's "signature band".^[1]

Concerning the sentence about Mariah Carey, the source describes the strict control Ienner took when producing Carey's debut album. This is a better summary of the source:

In the same year, Ienner decided to "take no chances" with Mariah Carey's debut album, enlisting Narada Michael Walden and Ric Wake to produce it, producers who had already had success producing hit albums with Whitney Houston and Taylor Dayne. ^[2]

Here is a clarification for the Robert Johnson paragraph. I believe when Ienner said that "This was our way of acknowledging a debt that's long overdue" he meant a symbolic debt, an appreciation of the great music Robert Johnson had created, and not an actual monetary debt that was being reimbursed. I changed the word donation to contribution, which is the word used in the source.

In December 1990, Ienner announced a $10,000 contribution from Columbia to the Mount Zion-Robert Johnson Memorial Fund with an additional $7,000 given one month later. A portion of the money was used to erect a memorial to blues musician Robert Johnson in the Mount Zion church's cemetery in Morgan City, Mississippi.^[3]

Concerning the paragraph about "Make You Feel My Love" the source states that "Ienner reached out to Dylan's camp." Here is a re-write to maintain accuracy:

In 1997, Ienner was looking for a new song for a Billy Joel greatest hits album, and after reaching out to Bob Dylan's camp, acquired "Make You Feel My Love", one of the 10 most covered songs by Dylan.^[4]^[5]

The source about Dylan's album "Time Out of Mind" describes Ienner's involvement in many aspects of its production and release. For the paragraph I want to add to the article, this is the paragraph from the source I will use: "Ienner darted around the world with the record, setting up projectors in conference rooms to scroll the lyrics as Dylan sang, cranking the volume, playing Love Sick and Cold Irons Bound, Make You Feel My Love and Not Dark Yet. “It wasn’t about one song, which would have given the impression we were going to radio or making videos,” he says. “It was about showing the depth of the album and getting them all on the same page – that this could be done with Bob Dylan, again.” Ienner was right. Rave reviews rolled in. Interest in Dylan’s tours exploded, stunning Campbell, who wondered if he had signed on with a nostalgia act before Time Out Of Mind emerged. Months later, he found himself on-stage at Dylan’s right hand for the Grammys, where the record netted three trophies, including Album Of The Year."

Ienner played a key role in the success of Bob Dylan’s 1997 Columbia release of “Time Out of Mind” which won three Grammy Awards, including Best Album of the Year.^[6]

You are right about the last sentence. Not in every case is it clear that Ienner signed and promoted each artist. It would be more accurate to say:

Ienner signed or supported the careers of Taylor Dayne,^[2] Bruce Springsteen, John Mayer, Beyoncé and Destiny’s Child.^[7]^[8]

References

[1]
Biddy, Patricia (22 May 1990). "Poi Dog progress report: Mongrel music no longer". Honolulu Star Bulletin.
[2]
Tannenbaum, Rob (23 August 1990). "Mariah Carey: Building the Perfect Diva". Rolling Stone.
[3]
St. George, Donna (15 March 1991). "Country Bluesman's Legacy Gives New Life To Music's Birthplace". The Seattle Times.
[4]
Browne, David (28 October 2019). "How Bob Dylan's 'Make You Feel My Love' Became a Modern Standard". Rolling Stone.
[5]
Murray, Robin (20 February 2023). "Here's The Real Reason Why Bob Dylan Gave Away 'Make You Feel My Love'". Clashmusic.com.
[6]
Haver Currin, Grayson (March 2023). "Not Dark Yet". No. 352. Mojo magazine. pp. 68–80.
[7]
"Beyonce Addresses Dad, Sony Execs at Masterful Second Roseland Show". The Hollywood Reporter. 17 August 2011.
[8]
Leeds, Jeff (2 December 2005). "Sony BMG to Revamp Management at Labels". The New York Times.

Thanks again for your help. GarrettEye (talk) 10:32, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for adding some clarity to these, it's much appreciated. In the case of "promoting" Poi Dog Pondering, "signing and promoting" Train, or "signing and promoting" Dayne, Springsteen, Mayer, Beyonce and Destiny's Child, it's still not clear how these actions go beyond what the head of a record company would normally do in the course of their duties.

I can understand, perhaps, the desire to list clients that the subject had during their tenure (although this is occasionally looked down upon) but none of these stand out as requiring extra mention. The same could be said of every act that was signed by the subject, that he "vigorously promoted" them which, depending on how many individual acts were signed to the company over the entire breadth of his tenure, could conceivably be more than 50.

No matter the level of participation or "enthusiasm" displayed, all of these individual signings ultimately occurred in bland, nondescript offices with women and men in business attire signing pieces of paper, which I understand is not as riveting as the image of the subject "darting around the world with the record, setting up projectors in conference rooms" but the basic outline of these actions are all the same: the subject performing the various job duties incumbent upon all music company top executives. If anything, the information about Dylan appears to be "above and beyond" but even then, the proposed text omits the likely (according to RS) role Don DeVito played in their "pitch sessions" to Billy Joel (which, as I understand it, was the whole other side of the coin to securing the Dylan song in the first place).

Meanwhile, the claim regarding Mount Zion is acceptable, so I've added that to the article. Regards, Spintendo 07:13, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Spintendo for implementing the bullet point above in such a timely fashion. I understand completely that it would be inappropriate to list every performing artist or band that Ienner promoted, but that is not what I am asking for. Every artist I am suggesting to be added is notable (has a Wikipedia article) and is discussed in reliable, independent sources. This is the "meat and potatoes" of Wikipedia. The sources decide what information goes in an article; the editors bring those sources to the page. Readers of Wikipedia who want to learn about Don Ienner will learn little about him the way the article is configured now. Legendary artists like Mariah Carey, Bob Dylan, Billy Joel, Bruce Springsteen, and more, are not even mentioned on this page. I think these omissions are a disservice to Wikipedia readers. If you have another idea how we can somehow add these names to the article that perhaps don’t include that Don Ienner was just doing his job when he was promoting these artists, I am open to another approach. But I feel strongly that these artists have a place somewhere on Ienner's Wikipedia article. Thank you for kindly reconsidering your decision. GarrettEye (talk) 10:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Improve last paragraph of "Columbia Records & Sony Music" section

Later career

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Thank you so much FMSky for implementing the above edit request. I have a few more suggestions that I hope you will also feel comfortable adding to the Columbia Records & Sony Music section.

Below the paragraph that begins "In 1994, Ienner was promoted to chairman…" please add the following paragraph:

Between 1989 and 2001 Ienner “transformed Sony’s Columbia division from a washed-up pop monolith into a muscular hit-making machine,” according to the Los Angeles Times. Under his auspices the label re-established itself as a force in rock, rap, and R&B. Revenue went from $300 million in 1989 to $730 million in 2000. Bob Dylan called Ienner an “unstoppable force.”^[1]

Below the paragraph that begins "In 2003, Ienner was named chairman of Sony Music Label Group…" please add the following five paragraphs:

In June 2006, Ienner left as chairman of Sony Music Label Group U.S. after 18 years at Sony and less than three years after being promoted to chairman.^[2]

After leaving Sony, Ienner became principal at IMO Entertainment, and an artist manager and consultant to Universal Music.^[3]

In 2010, Ienner founded cloud-based social content player IMHO Media.^[4]

Ienner, together with John Hamlin, managed the band Hot Chelle Rae in 2011.^[5]^[6]

Ienner invested in the use of technology to predict hit songs. In 2003, during work on Beyoncé’s first solo album, there was a disagreement between Beyoncé and Ienner about what the first single should be. Ienner sent several tracks from the album to be tested by the company Hit Predictor, which determined that “Crazy in Love” was the best choice. “Crazy in Love” became a major hit, winning two Grammies in 2004.^[7]^[8]^[9]

References

[1]
Philips, Chuck (29 January 2001). "Passion for Music Drives Columbia Chief to Make Plenty of Industry Noise". Los Angeles Times.
[2]
Duhigg, Charles (2 June 2006). "Two Top Sony BMG Executives Step Down". Los Angeles Times.
[3]
Smith, Nicola (11 April 2012). "Data holds key to the future". Marketing Week.
[4]
"Former Sony Music boss launches IMGO social content player". Music Ally. 25 March 2010.
[5]
Bronson, Fred (5 July 2011). "Hot Chelle Rae: The Story Behind the Success of 'Tonight Tonight'". Billboard.
[6]
Smith, Nicola (11 April 2012). "Data holds key to the future". Marketing Week.
[7]
Smith, Nicola (11 April 2012). "Data holds key to the future". Marketing Week.
[8]
"SoundOut Predicts Music Hits With Reviews, Linguistic Analysis". Bloomberg.
[9]
Reynaud, Floriane (4 September 2020). "Beyoncé: 5 fun facts about "Crazy in Love"". Vogue France.

Could you also take a look at the above edit request labeled "Columbia Records & Sony Music section" and see if you think any of the bullet points that were not already implemented could be? Thanks so much for all your editing work. GarrettEye (talk) 15:33, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Done Encoded Talk 💬 07:23, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Reply 25-DEC-2023

Related Articles