Talk:Fried chicken

The Karaage article says they were cooking fried chicken in Japan since at least the 16th century. The Tempura article says that Japanese fritters were introduced by Portuguese missionaries toward the end of the 16th century. This article says fried chicken "evolved from the 16th century British Frie chicken" (whatever that is). But then immediately after, it says fried chicken derived from Scottish and West African precedents. Then it goes into a lengthy defense of the claim that African slaves introduced fried chicken to the United States.

It seems like there was, unsurprisingly, some dispute about who gets credit for fried chicken, white Americans or black Americans. That apparently led to a citation war (explaining why the History section is littered with excessive inline citations), which was resolved by fusing the two parallel perspectives together. But this leads to an incoherent section that can't decide who invented frying or who brought it (and seasoning) to the US.

Given the popularity of fritters in medieval Europe as Lenten food, and the sources indicating that Karaage and Tempura developed in Japan as early as the mid 16th century, it's hard to believe West Africans introduced Europeans to the notion of deep frying chicken. Some sources make a vague assertion, without any evidence, that fried chicken "has its origins" in West African cuisine. There's also one claiming that deep frying in the South followed "the African method," but not offering any evidence or sources for that method. But the sources that actually provide some detail on the history don't say anything about fried chicken specifically, just that chicken was an ancestral, sacred food. The examples of West African chicken dishes don't seem to bear any resemblance to American fried chicken, while Japanese karaage bears an extremely close resemblance to it. But the article itself seems to conflate chicken with fried chicken.

Maybe it would be better to simply say that two different parties claim credit, and there isn't any conclusive evidence for the "paper trail" of American fried chicken. Then the article can focus on known historical examples of fried chicken, like karaage and the Scottish preparations (and I guess also the British "Frie chicken," if anyone knows what that is... is that a typo or a proper noun?), and anything else that can be found (I've heard colloquially there is an old tradition from China but don't know of any sources with details).

Which leads me to the other problem with the article, its America-centrism. If the content were left as-is, it should really be entitled "Southern fried chicken," because the entire History section seems to start in the 16th century and only mentions influences on the American dish. But as I already noted earlier, a very similar dish (differing only in the subtleties of preparation and local seasoning preferences) was being prepared in Japan even earlier, and presumably also in Portugal. This European and Japanese development would be interesting to cover, not just for the sake of a global perspective but also because it predates any American tradition and presumably influences the American tradition (with the US colonies and nearby Mexico having been founded by European colonists).

Since sources on deep frying are known to predate sources on fried chicken, it would also be worth mentioning earlier varieties of fritters. It's not hard to see how people who habitually deep fried dough and vegetables might have got the idea to try it with pieces of chicken. But I'm not sure what the article's intent is. Are we intentionally only concerned with the American dish? Is the History section about the development of fried chicken in general, or is it about the introduction of fried chicken to the United States? GlacialHorizon (talk) 23:27, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

To complicate further, there are two Wikidata items that both seem to be about the breaded and fried chicken dish: (where this article is listed) and (where the simple English article is listed). I think that this article should be about breaded/battered and fried chicken in general (with the Southern fried chicken mentioned as a type of fried chicken) and that the Wikidata items be merged so that the interwiki links work better. Is there really any significant difference between southern fried chicken and other breaded or battered fried chicken dishes, that makes southern fried chicken notable enough for a separate article? Sjö (talk) 12:46, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

From what I have seen, I think the article is about Southern fried chicken, the dish that has been famous from the Southern United States and spread into the world thanks of American fast food industry, rather than all chicken dishes that are fried.

There are many, many fried chicken dishes that do not follow how "Southern fried chicken" was cooked - List of fried chicken dishes has listed some of them. So there's a "1significant difference between Southern fried chicken and other breaded or battered fried chicken dishes". Merging their Wikidata items is too American-centric point of view on fried chicken.

Rather, I prefer moving the article into "Southern fried chicken" and creating a redirect of "fried chicken" into "Southern fried chicken" or "List of fried chicken dishes" - because the article's title is too American-centric for me. But looks like the idea was rejected wholly in previous talks. Saimmx (talk) 06:11, 27 September 2025 (UTC)

I am unable to trace the source of the expression fried chicken being in he 1830s. The source cited just states 1832 but doesn't actually give any details. Does anyone have any idea where it came from before the 1830s is removed Sharnadd (talk) 06:36, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Does it matter where it came from? The reference is supposed to verify that the term existed in the 1830s, which it does. If a reference is there to support fact A, there is no reason to remove it because it does not mention fact B that is not even mentioned in article. Sjö (talk) 11:47, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes it matters if the statement is correct. No one is trying to remove it as it does not support fact b whatever you consider that to b. So a reference may just state a date and not show origin. That is fine, however it does not support fact a which is that the American expression for southern fried chicken was fried chicken in the USA in the 1830s. It just states fried chicken Sharnadd (talk) 12:02, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

There is literally no evidence in the cited sources for Africans introducing some sort of special seasoning technique to fried chicken making. There's no record of Africans having a deep fried chicken dish but there's a plethora of evidence for this dish originating in Europe (including this page claiming it comes from a recipe from France, written even earlier than Hannah Glasse's). The origins of fried chicken in America are definitely in Europe, probably Britain, and it was only taken up by African-Americans after being exposed to the recipe by Europeans. This article attempts to present it as some sort of mixed origin food when actual primary sources seem to refute this entirely. Outside of the unsourced claims of random journalists there is 0 reason to believe Africans have anything to do with the origin of this food. ~2025-32621-60 (talk) 07:51, 11 November 2025 (UTC)

I'd like to add that I think the idea fried chicken originated amongst Africans or African-Americans is probably due to people's preconceived notions about the dish, and the dishes current association with African-Americans. Which is a kind of thinking editors on wikipedia should obviously avoid. ~2025-32621-60 (talk) 07:56, 11 November 2025 (UTC)

A few months ago, I edited this article to mention Korean fried chicken, describing a theory that the dish was based on fried chicken. I noticed that this edit was reverted by User:Sharnadd, on the basis that Korean fried chicken is not a variant of Southern fried chicken. I disagree with this removal, as the source I cited explicitly verified the statement that Korean fried chicken may (theoretically) be a variant of Southern fried chicken. Even though this is a disputed theory, I believe it is significant enough that it is due weight to include it in this article. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:26, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

it was an in-depth history of Korean fried chicken on the southern fried chicken page. History of it belongs on the Korean fried chicken page Sharnadd (talk) 01:02, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

I see your point about it being too much detail. However, I still think it's important to at least include some information about it—a derivative of Southern fried chicken is certainly relevant to the history of Southern fried chicken as a whole. Perhaps it would make sense to include a shorter sentence, like: According to some historians, Korean fried chicken evolved from fried chicken, which was introduced to South Korea by American soldiers. This could go in either the list of variants or the history section, since you're right that it's not quite a variant. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 03:27, 14 December 2025 (UTC) — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 03:27, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

In 1736 a book was published called "Dictionarium domesticum" by Nathan Bailey (before Hannah Glasse's book). Within it has a very similar recipe to the one cited in the article.

"A Marinade of Chickens" Page 410:

"Cut the chickens into quarters, and marinade them in the juice of lemons and verjuice, or with vinegar, salt, clove, pepper, chibols: or a bay leaf or two: Let them lie in this marinade for the space of three hours, and then having made a fort of clear paste or batter with flour, white wine and the yolks of three eggs, drop the chickens into it, then fry them in lard, and serve them up in the form of a pyramid, with fry'd parsley and slices of lemon."

You can find a historical cooking channel recreating this recipe here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPfORR5ffuY

I figured I'd talk about this before updating the article and get any feedback on how best to alter the text or origins. I was figuring on updating Scottish to British(?); and then either replacing the Hannah Glasse reference or adding to it. PedanticSophist (talk) 20:39, 29 January 2026 (UTC)