Talk:Gallifrey
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 | This article was nominated for deletion on 14 November 2024. The result of the discussion was merge. |
 | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
| |||||||||||
 |
This article contains broken links to one or more target anchors:
The anchors may have been removed, renamed, or are no longer valid. Please fix them by following the link above, checking the page history of the target pages, or updating the links. Remove this template after the problem is fixed | Report an error |
Canonicity of novels?
"The novels are not considered canon by most fans" - I can see this sentence causing some debate... Angmering 22:12, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Is that really a disputed term? The novels are not even considered canon by the novelists. Nobody seriously expects Russell T. Davies to adhere to what's been done in the novels, and books like Sometime Never and audio plays like Zagreus have also implied that the novels and the audios show alternative universes. Ultimately, I've always maintained that the nature of time travel and changing history in Doctor Who means that what is "canon" and what is not can be constantly in flux. --khaosworks 22:40, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Oh I wouldn't dispute it personally, I'm no John Blum-style novel crusader! It's just that the novel ranges do have their... how shall I put it... "enthusiastic" supporters, just as any other area of fandom, and I can see a remark like that fanning the flames of debate! Angmering 23:23, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I'll put up some more info this weekend when I get the time.
Reversion on 29 December 2005
I know where the anon thinks he's getting the info from, so I should explain why I'm reverting it. Firstly, the 29,000 light years figure is from Terror of the Autons, where the Time Lord emmisary sent to warn the Doctor about the Master says he's travelled 29,000 years. However, although it was probable that Robert Holmes intended that to be the distance from Earth to the as-yet-unnamed Time Lord homeworld, it is never made explicit that is precisely where he's come from. He could have hopped from somewhere else. Holmes's weak grasp of scientific concepts and distances aside, this is explictly contradicted by the TVM which places Gallifrey 250 million light years away. So between one vague reference and one specific one, the one to be preferred becomes obvious.
Which brings us to where Gallifrey is. Mutter's Spiral is assumed by many to be the Time Lord name for the Milky Way, but nowhere does it say in the television series that Gallifrey is in Mutter's Spiral. Earth is in Mutter's Spiral, that much is certain from The Deadly Assassin, but we are never told what Mutter's Spiral is. As Lawrence Miles points out, for all we know, from Gallifrey's viewpoint, the area of space Earth is in looks like a spiral, even if Gallifrey was within the same galaxy. So it's not at all certain that Gallifrey itself is in Mutter's Spiral.
Yes, it is implied in Pyramids of Mars (where the coordinates for Gallifrey come from) that it must be within the same galaxy, but it is again not explicit, and besides, the Doctor wasn't exactly trying to be cooperative. Once again, we come back to 250 million light years away, which definitely places it outside our galaxy. Considering the orders of magnitude from 29,000 to 250 million, a drift of that much is really implausible, so that's a further strike against the credibility of the 29,000 figure.
Just wanted to make it clear. :) We now return to non-anorak programming. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 06:21, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
- Another bit from the Discontinuiy Guide (with some further extrapolation and ignoring or -simply not mentioning- the other constellation stuff). Of course, that ignores the issue of how one can be in a constellation in the first place. But whatever, that's fine.--Sean|Black 07:37, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
- Maybe the Gallifreyan year is 8620 times as long as an Earth year, so the distance light travels ... I'll stop right there ;) Tim! (talk) 17:42, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
- Reviving an old conversation here - to point out here that at the same time as the Doctor says "250 million light years away" he also describes Gallifrey as being "on the other side of your galaxy". Surely that places it inside the Milky Way? And if no two objects in the Milky Way can be 250 million light years apart (given that the Milky Way is only 300,000 light years across) then maybe the TARDIS at that moment in the TV movie wasn't actually near the Earth, but was 250 million light years outside the galaxy. 80.93.170.99 16:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Constellation can refer to two things if you think about it. 1: Location via a traditional astronomical constellation. After all, if you have a universe with races, it would be logical to assume that Earth isn't the only one to trace patterns in the sky. Some race near them saw a pattern of stars with Gallifrey's Star and perhaps oblivious, named it as such.
2: Location via elements of time/relativity/location in relative time. Instead of using binary coordinates, just gives the location using a known or maybe unknown star grouping/sector.
As for the 29,000 or 250 Million Light Years distance discrepancy. Aside Terror of the Autons, there is the Brain of Morbius and the Doctor's mentioning of "I recognize these stars he was born in these parts within a couple of billion miles.” Mehendri Solon is not a humanoid, he's human; the abandoned plant turned science lab is also indicated to have been designed by humans. As far as we know, even by 10 Million AD itself, Humans are still in the Galaxy with, their Empire long declined. The Doctor knows Solon is a Terran neurosurgeon who specializes in microsurgical techniques in tissue transplantation, and places the dates around the 50-60th Centuries. If Karn is near Gallifrey that would mean that Solon was somehow able to cross 250 Million light years, set up shop, and has been in that area of the universe ever since. Hyperspace travel in the Whovian Universe appears faster than in others, but it isn't that fast.
As for planetary shifting, we’ve seen races capable of moving worlds. One notable one is the Cybermen, another are the Time Lords. The Cybermen shifted Mondas back to the Sol System. If everyone will remember the Trial of a Time Lord, After finding a way into the Matrix, the Andromedans set up a base on Earth in order to prevent the Time Lords from tracing their home world, but the Time Lords used a Magnetron to draw the Earth and its constellation out of position, causing the solar fireball which ravaged the planet and causing the Andromedan recovery mission to miss Earth.
Considering this example, it wouldn’t be too difficult to believe that the Gallifreyans moved their Homeworld into another part of space, maybe another Galaxy. This could have been done via Transmat or Spacio-Temporal Shifting, which for any of it wouldn’t be difficult for a race that has accomplished phenomenal things. Also, when watching the movie, there are two Eras noted: the Rassilon and Humanian. When the Doctor points out Gallifrey, in whose Era is he showing it too, his, or Grace’s?
- But this is still all speculation and unsupported by anything we actually see in the television series, and as a result is not encyclopedic. That's really the bottom line, here. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 02:36, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
- I very vaguely recall gallifreys co-ordinates being given various times, including once as the Scotland yard phone number, once as being alsmot identical to earths own in some weird way, and as very tiny number, as it is meant to be one of the oldest planets in the galaxy, the one to first evolve both life, and humanoid life at that. Its also supposed to be extremely close to Galactic Center. Jaime9526 22:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)jaime9526
Gallifrey audios
I've updated the bit about the Gallifrey audios, per the Big Finish website. I'm not sure whether it's been officially announced that this is the last series, but Gary Russell said so on a panel at the Gallifrey convention with Louise Jameson and Mary Tamm, which is good enough for me. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:33, 10 March 2006 (UTC)